EPA Requirements- Customers Put Harley in Catch-22

This is the Fourth Video in a Multi-Part Series on WHY & HOW to Cool Down Your Twin Cam & Milwaukee-8 Engine. What are the TWO KINDS OF HEAT ON HARLEY'S??? SEE More Below-
⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ Click Show More Below ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️
Addressing ACTUAL HEAT is our Priority, because doing this will also reduce FELT HEAT.
Conversely, many things that address FELT HEAT will increase ACTUAL HEAT, which is Not good for the engine.
➡️ Part #1 in this Series- • Is Your Harley Too Hot...
➡️ Part #2 in this Series- • Questionable Harley De...
➡️ Part #3 in this Series- • Is Harley Going To Hat...
In this series we go in depth on WHY you should want to cool down your Harley, WHY do they run SO Hot, WHY does Harley Make them this way, and HOW/WHAT can be done to cool them down.
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The DK Team

[@61espo]

Great series of videos! Keep em coming and thank you!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thank you. More on the way!

[@redbull8661]

I found this series because I had a 2022 Heritage softail that I actually traded off on a BMW. I would probably be a buyer of another Heritage softail if it was water cooled. As far as traditional look and sound, the metric bikes have water cooled v-twins that looked and sound like a free air v-twin, I'm sure Harley could do it if they wanted. Thank you for the great information and I really enjoy your videos, and yes I did watch the newer videos as well.

[@DKCustomProducts]

HD's forays into fully water cooled engines have been a failure so far(the Pan America and the new Sportsters, which are not really selling)...they have not found a design that appeals to very many buyers. I personally love the Air Cooled Harley's and do not want a different bike. Here is a video you may find interesting- kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGHOfZSMhs2VjZY Glad that you have found a bike that you like! Thanks for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB

[@arthurmeltzer1503]

Thought you might appreciate this. Catch 22 is a novel written by Joseph Heller set in an army camp in Europe during World War II. Heller defined "Catch 22" as a policy practiced by an officer named Major Major Major Major. Major Major Major Major specialized in doing nothing and going to great lengths to avoid any and all responsibility. His policy was if you wanted an appointment to see him you had 2 options: 1) If he was in you had to make an appointment to see him sometime later when he wouldn't be available, or 2) If he wasn't in you could sit and wait for him when there was no possibility he would show up.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Very cool! Thank you for the add. 👍

[@stevek8829]

That's not Catch 22. Why make up fake BS? If you never saw the movie or read the book, you could just look it up on the internet.

[@stevek8829]

@@DKCustomProducts the guy spewed made up BS. Catch 22 is totally different and way more clever. Thanks for the great discussion. When I sit at long Florida stop lights I don't blip the throttle! My 96" Dyna gets by with exhaust and richer mix. I don't have a thermometer because I'm better off not looking.

[@DKCustomProducts]

@%98%AEhannel/UC_83Kq83qM33_RvHfecIDmQ We actually just recorded a video on the subject of not wanting to know engine temps. 😱 Here is a link to it- kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIXIf52LpLh3aJo

[@OZARKSHDRIDERS]

Good work explaining the heat brother 💯

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thanks!

[@OZARKSHDRIDERS]

@@DKCustomProducts 👍🏼💯

[@johncartwright1139]

I have a 2009 road king , I installed a dk custom 606 breather , a dk custom external breather system , a dynojet power vision tuner and a set of tab performance 4 inch slip ons with zombie baffles and woke up my bike

[@DKCustomProducts]

Good to hear you're enjoying!

[@exexpat11]

Just bought my first Harley after about 2 dozen Japanese Standards and Cruisers. As a new Harley owner I don't mind Water Cooled. If Harley had a good water system that cranks out the power and looked ok - I see no problem. My Roadster sounds like a Harley only quieter. Fixed that with an Open Filter Intake and Exhaust. (Weirdest sound on my Sportster is the engine sounds clanky compared to all my previous bikes. I have been told that is normal.)

[@DKCustomProducts]

Congrats on your new ride! Yeah, Sportys can have a bit of top end noise. I've found that the Redline oil is best at keeping the clatter down.

[@clinthooper50]

Glad I found these helpful videos. Nice work, Kevin.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Hey Clint! Thank you! Good to see you here. Yeah, some good info in this series. Be safe my friend.

[@ZeRowe]

Not really! I noticed within the first 200 miles that the felt heat in my M8 was worse, a friend now has an m8 and he asked if I thought it was hotter.. hell yes! Love the series! 😎✌🏻

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yep, the M8 has the same heat problems the Twin Cams have. Some folks don't feel it as much as other, but it is there. Glad you're liking the series.

[@fourftr]

@@DKCustomProducts that’s why I’m thinking on going with the Road Glide Special on my next Harley. Those lowers from the liquid cooled heads really trap the heat back to your feet and legs

[@DKCustomProducts]

@@fourftr Yes, with no lowers your legs definitely get more wind, and it will improve rider comfort. But the engine is still too hot for it's own good. Here's a video you may find interesting/useful- kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWS3ZKx3bqd-rac

[@jimweagant8920]

Great video thanks for sharing

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thanks for watching!

[@hoyt15flhtk82]

Excellent topic and we all have alot to learn about heat dissipation. I heard but don't know if its true or not so I figured I'd ask you the 100 million $ question. My 15 Limited I've heard you can go in and reprogram the ECM to turn coolant fans on say at 160° instead of the 190° they are set at from stock. I know why HD doesn't do it because of needing the extra heat to reburn or burn up the optimal amount of fuel to make emissions. So if the initial start temperature for fans engaging can be lowered to 160° for optimal oil/eng temperature. Why isn't it being mentioned or brought up? Thx in advance!!!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thanks, glad you found the video interesting, and appreciate your comments and questions. The Twin-Cooled Twin Cams, also known as wet heads, or some believe they are liquid cooled (as in fully liquid cooled)...only have a water jacket going around the exhaust valves. There are no other coolant pathways. The only thing that is cooled is the metal around the exhaust valves. No other part of the heads or engine like you find on liquid cooled engines. To do this cooling of the exhaust valves, HD put a waterpump in place of the oil cooler. This had serious unintended consequences, as seen in this video- kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYO1pYWPjNJoqNk Who really knows why HD has it triggered at 190, possibly because on most water cooled engines the thermostat begins opening at 190…sort of an industry standard. However, that does not really make sense, since the HD is not truly a water cooled bike. Yes, one could change the trigger to 160, but it will make no significant difference in the majority or riding situations. It could, theoretically, have a negative impact if riding down in the cold 30’s or 40’s. In looking at temps on a Harley, there are two temps that HD has a standard for, and their standards are in keeping with what we have found in our research. Engine temp, as measured by the OEM heat temp sensor embedded in the cylinder head. See this video for more details on that- kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIiylYSFqampbKM Oil temp, as measured at the dipstick. Here is a copy and paste from HD manual showing what the optimum oil temp is from HD Corp.- www.dkcustomproducts.com/image/2021_Dyno_Pulls/M8-Oil%20Manual.jpg With a long enough ride(around 45 minutes), both of these temps will stabilize, but the oil heats up and cools down much slower than the heat sensor in the head. Here is a video that shows what HD does when the heat sensor hits 270 F, in an attempt to cool it down- kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4Hbe2uGq8iJqsU The exhaust valve cooling on the Twin Cooled bikes has very little impact on the overall temperature of the bike (engine and oil), and, in fact, they run hotter than their oil cooled cousins. (because of a lack of an oil cooler). Long way to get to your question…triggering at 160 will slow down the heat up process in slow moving traffic (oh, I forgot to mention, the fans only push more air across the radiators at speeds of 30 mph and less…so good in slow moving traffic…over 30 mph and the wind is moving more air across the radiators than the fans can), but them triggering at 160 will not reduce the eventual top temp that the engine and oil get to after riding for awhile. I hope you find info useful to you as you continue your research. Always feel free to email or call with any questions: [e-mail] 662-252-8828

[@hoyt15flhtk82]

@@DKCustomProducts great explanation of the different ways of heat dissipation or build-up. I do ride in Temps as low as 15° before storing/putting bike away for 2 months in a unheated garage. Since garage is hooked to the house usually doesn't get below freezing unless close to the walls. I definitely respect your opinion on heat within the HD engine/tranny/primary system. With all the R&D you've done thru the years and your willingness to share it. Really shows your passion/caring for riding/riders and their equipment shows.

[@DKCustomProducts]

@@hoyt15flhtk82 Thanks for the kind words man, we are always happy to help out our fellow riders! Thank you for watching our videos!

[@scrumthebum2451]

Subscribed 👍 what is that green bike behind you ? From what I can see it looks badass 😎

[@DKCustomProducts]

That's my ton of fun bike. It'll beat a great Stage IV bagger out of the hole, up to about 60 mph. Here are a couple of vids of it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/moari4qKgNWVmKM kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqjYg3yBibKokNE kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHfYc4lsn72rd9k

[@scrumthebum2451]

DKCustomProducts Oh yeah sportsters kick the crap out of big twins. I help my friend with a sportster drag bike strict 1230cc limit we got 15:1comprrssion & 716 lift cams reground by zippers.

[@AlainTabangin]

I don’t know I actually would of preferred a water cooled engine lol maybe cause I’m a millennial. Cost so much just to keep my street glide reliable, I commute with only my motorcycles.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yeah, no doubt a lot of folks like fully water cooled engines. HD has only two of them right now, the Pan America and the new "Sportsters".

[@mqualls1989]

The only suggestion is have is your volume. You're very hard to hear so maybe a different mic set up is needed. Great information though!

[@DKCustomProducts]

I think it is my voice...we have a great Rodes Microphone...I will work on projecting better, also see if Dwayne can turn up the volume in editing some more.

[@pappystern2955]

@@DKCustomProductsI, I was thinking the same thing. Exactly how far away is the mic from where you are positioned? If it is not that close, perhaps you can get an external mic and clip it on or something like that

[@kevingleason5434]

There is a separate mike they could put on him.

[@kevingleason5434]

Is there a gauge that is ready available, easily installed to see the temperature?

[@DKCustomProducts]

For an engine temp gauge I use the Power Vision that you can see at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm For an oil temp gauge I've used both the Harley dipstick temp gauges and the JesCustom dipstick gauges.

[@kevingleason5434]

@@DKCustomProducts ,Thank you. I have a Vance Hines F P ,S&S air cleaner, Vance Hines tru dual exhaust, ( all of which was on our trike when purchased). The only thing I have done was add a rear lift,and baffles ( exhaust, our filling were vibrating at a constant 80 mph).

[@bajarvcouple]

Darn EPA

[@ZevGriffin-s5u]

I’d prefer a fully water-cooled engine.

[@DKCustomProducts]

With Harley, that mean a Street, Vrod, Pan America, or one of the new Sportsters. Here is a video that shows that the Twin Cooled M8's actually run hotter than the non-twin cooled. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYO1pYWPjNJoqNk

[@larrylong4407]

Water cooled oil cooler ?

[@DKCustomProducts]

That is definitely an idea. Limited space on a bike, but that does not mean it could not be accomplished. Thanks for commenting! KP

[@ut1004bp]

So then the Cam in the M8 does or doesn't heat up the engine more than the Stock TC engine?? BTW your Intro is way too loud on your video production

[@DKCustomProducts]

The M8 gets just as hot as the Twin Cam, which is too much. It does do a better job at not radiating as much heat to the rider and passenger as the Twin Cam. Yes, we have fixed our audio....much better than it used to be.

[@williambalyx1053]

actually wish my 2018 FLTRU was water cooled, I m sure Harley could hide the fact it was by some creative design...hard to hide a rad but the motor should be easy.

[@DKCustomProducts]

The new "Sportsters" and the Pan America are HD's latest attempts at water-cooled. We will see how they fare. They sure don't look like traditional Harley's. Here is a video that touches on something MoCo may be doing to keep the traditional look and meet the tightening emission standards- kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJKYoWWrgLhnla8

[@brucemcnutt1695]

Yep it's always hard to hear your speaking

[@DKCustomProducts]

We'll keep working on it. On our computers it is so loud it hurts the ears.

[@kevingleason5434]

Lol, it must be hot in there.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yeah, it was over 100 degrees outside the day we recorded this...so we recorded inside my bike room...even though the window air conditioners were going, it was still close to 90 degrees inside...we did have to turn one of the units off while recording...too much noise otherwise.

[@kevingleason5434]

@@DKCustomProducts ,Purchase a mini split unit,easily installed,extremely quiet,very reasonable price wise, you could take the window units out,and user your windows to yell at people, Lol. Plus you would cut your electric bill 3/4 ,and you could use your cell phone to monitor it.

[@rajfar7]

Can you please get to the subject matter without the constant repeating of the topic

[@DKCustomProducts]

👍😃 It's coming. Gotta lay the foundation first, we get many questions that are answered in these videos on WHY. Not all of us are as fast as you.