Episode 20 - The Siglent SDS1204X-E - A lot of value for the money

This is Jack Ganssle's review of Siglent's new (December 2018) SDS1204X-E oscilloscope. And I'm giving it away in January, 2018! For lots more about embedded systems (including over 1000 articles), visit www.ganssle.com. And subscribe to my twice-monthly newsletter that has more reviews like this! Go to www.ganssle.com/tem-subunsub.html

[@Speglritz]

I've been keeping my eye on this series of scopes. I've been longing to try getting into RF design and a 200 MHz scope seems like a good start.

[@tedmitchell8438]

Very nice review. Best of luck to the winner.

[@michaelhawthorne8696]

I'll have to look up this scope control of the genny. I have a 1104 X-E scope and an 805 genny....should be interesting.... Thanks Jack

[@friedmule5403]

Sorry to ask, but you talk about the combination of the function generator and the scope, have you made any video about that combination? Do all the X models have that capability?

[@bodzio_stawski187]

Sir Jack, are you planning to buy PP215 probes or do you prefer to stick with the factory ones, i.e. PP510?

[@cmuller1441]

Cool time travel to December 2018!

[@nick1995ification]

虽然这个仪器可能没有Tek或者KeySight的好，但是有这样的设备存在，他们才不敢漫天要价

[@billybbob18]

If you have an 1104x-E, you can hack it to achieve 200mhz. It has the exact same hardware as the 1204x-E. The only drawback is the lack of ability to update the firmware. When they figure out fast/live web control, I'll undo the hack because I only needed it to check a 315mhz remote signal. It can read above 300mhz fairly well for a stock 100mhz scope. Regular firmware updates will keep hardware hackers at bay. I hack my own stuff just for kicks.

[@kestergascoyne6924]

Thank you!

[@robertomanuelpaulik4236]

Hy! maybe you can help me in my decision, I am between two oscilloscopes, one is SDS2202X-E and the other is SDS2302. the latter obviously has 300MHz and a 2-channel generator included, but the X-E model is more accurate in my opinion. I saw your SDS1204X-E review video complete, nice! The firmware version installed in SDS2302 is the latest, 1.2.2.2 y I will apply this instrument in repair, design and survey of industrial computers. The reason I will not buy a 4 channel version is that in these characteristics (2GSa/S - 200MHz-300MHz) it is out of my budget. The SDS2202X-E has up to 400,000 wvfm/s and the SDS2302 has 110,000 ... the detecting non-repeating error signals is crucial for me.

[@KX36]

Why is it weird for a 200MHz scope to have a 1GSample/s acquisition rate? That's shared between 4 channels, so if you turn on 3 or 4 channels (or the wrong combination of 2), it drops to 500MSample/s (as it says on the front) which is only just enough to meet the Nyquist frequency for 200MHz. IIRC, oversampling is also important for Sin(x)/x interpolation and for improving the effective number of bits on delta-sigma ADCs

[@tHaH4x0r]

I agree. Most competitor 200 meg scopes have 2GSa/s sampling rate. Such as the rigol DS2200 series or the R&S RTC1000 series.

[@peru20032004]

Hello Jack, I am from Brazil and I need to import buy an oscilloscope, I am in doubt on two models I do not know if you can help me which of these two model you can indicate Siglent SDS1202X-E or Rigol DS1054Z?

[@alexandrebensi8460]

Doni, estou na mesma dúvida.. então encontrei essa série pra confundir mais ainda rss preciso um que tenha zoom e decodificador can. Por fim, como foi sua experiência ? Se puder compartilhar.. fico grato

[@markc9871]

The Siglent line seems like very capable scopes. Even though people claim the PDF manual is large, it's mostly white space with scant descriptions of how the various functions work. Not looking to learn Oscilloscope bacis just the nuances of their scopes. I wish they had a good community support forum online to ask question from Siglent veterans. Is there a generic forum, I have explored some of the blogs?

[@joejdl]

Head on over to eevblog - there is a number of forum entries for these scopes.

[@garynorris4648]

Superb.

[@slap_my_hand]

If it had a set of vertical controls for each channel, it would be way bigger.

[@kevinszabo7035]

Jack, was this review sponsored by Siglent? Is there a KZbin protocol to highlight vendor sponsored reviews vs. unsponsored reviews? Thanks.

[@JackGanssleEmbedded]

Nope. They sent me the scope with no conditions. I'm giving it away - rather than selling it - to demonstrate independence.

[@kevinszabo7035]

Excellent, thanks so much for letting us know.

[@DerekDavis213]

@@JackGanssleEmbedded If your review is too critical, will Siglent send you a future scope with no conditions?

[@oscar-ke7kl]

Me 23 years old and I prefer 1950's scopes 🤣🤣🤣

[@yoramstein]

nice video

[@michaelhawthorne8696]

Hi Jack, I have been looking for reviews for these models, the 100 MHz would be the one I would go for because of the sample rate. I was interested to hear the scope can control a Siglent AWG because I have an SDG 805. I really want one of these and at the price, it's a no brainer but for someone with a small bank balance it is still quite a bit to shell out. I have an SDS1102CML which you also reviewed and I am thoroughly happy with but a 4 channel would be sooooo good to have. It's a toss up between this SDS1104X-E at £454 from Amazon or the Hantek DSO4254C for £ 372. I think the decode facility of the siglent is the killer blow to the Hantek. What you think? Amazon only have 1 SDS left in stock.

[@JackGanssleEmbedded]

Michael - I have not played with the Hantek so can't really compare them. I do find the serial decode feature a game-changer.

[@ChazzDerby]

the scope can only control sdg1000 and up. Not the 800 series.

[@michaelhawthorne8696]

@@JackGanssleEmbedded I forgot about this post...I went and bought the SDS1104X-E, must have been shortly after this post.....Really happy with it, what value for money...

[@SeltsamerAttraktor]

The lucky winner wasn't me :(

[@bernardosilva7306]

Hi Jack, which unit do you think it is better (similar price range)? This unit, SDS1204X-E, or the Rigol 1054Z (hacked)? Thanks!

[@nandowonka]

Are u stupid? How compare 1054z with this monster? Are you an Rigol salesman?

[@Europhile]

@@nandowonka How rude.

[@SeltsamerAttraktor]

Do you get any sort of confirmation mail when you sign up and/or enter the contest? Because I didn't.

[@JackGanssleEmbedded]

No email; you should have been taken to a page which says "Thanks! Stay tuned to the Embedded Muse for results! "

[@SeltsamerAttraktor]

Yes, I was. Hope you don't disqualify me because I tried it twice, waiting for said confirmation email.

[@user-ds2wy2ee9n]

nice recommand

[@NeverTalkToCops1]

Separate vertical controls per channel are a must. The frustration of messing around with multiplexed controls will cost you way more than just buying a proper set up.

[@aneeshprasobhan]

Hi Jack, I live in India and I am a service engineer for an Engine Manufacturer here. I have been trying to prove to my company that the starter motor solenoid is causing transients when it is deactivated suddenly (our design doesnt have a flyback diode) . Im planning to buy a 20Mhz Hantek PC Oscilloscope(its the one fitting my budget) , but my question is, will it be able to detect a 50 millisecond transient from a solenoid ?...... great video btw. Thanks

[@hubmartin]

It sure will capture that. 50 ms is a long duration even in the term of simpliest scopes.Check my video where with old 50MHz Rigol scope I!m capturing microsecond communication pulses for LED. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6PamYR4ftRkp6cm42s

[@aneeshprasobhan]

hubmartin ....the problem is, I am expecting around 600Volts transient for about/under 50milliseconds, will the hantek handle it ?....btw nice channel....subscribed :)

[@hubmartin]

Usually the probes has internal or selectable divider 1:10. So if the voltage peak is 600V on the probe. The scope will get on its BNC connector just 60V.

[@kfmutrus]

Usually cheap USB scopes having something like 30Vpp maximum on input ;-) And if my memory serves me well stock probes are rated only for 600VDC.

[@KX36]

50milliseconds (0.050s)? That's a very long duration - longer than a cycle of AC mains. If it really is 50ms, you can detect that easily enough with a handheld multimeter with a peak hold (min/max) function. I don't think you should need to buy any equipment. Just google image search for "solenoid driver" and show someone how all the circuit diagrams have a diode across the coil. It's literally textbook stuff to put a diode across any magnetic component that will be quickly switched off. On the other hand, I know nothing about automotive wiring and what would typically be in circuit with a starter motor solenoid. As far as the confusion over ratings of scope probes. Your standard 10:1 switchable probe will have a 300V cat II rating. Whether or not you can exceed that is up to how much energy there is in the pulse. If you're not sure, you can get 100:1 1000V probes on eBay cheaply and they also tend to have a higher bandwidth than your typical 10:1 probe because of their internal high value resistor.

[@stringlesswonder]

As you are a highly respected member of the electronics community, I was anxious to see your review of this scope. It is probably the first serious competitor to the Rigol 1054Z, and I had hoped for your views on it's strong and weak point to help me make a purchase decision. Instead we got a brief description of the state of modern scope capabilities and some history of what it might have cost 40 years ago. After 9 minutes I am no closer to knowing how this scope performs, or does not perform. Disappointed in your "review" of the 1204X-E to say the least.

[@realitycheck4296]

stringlesswonder stringlesswonder I understand where you're coming from because I also want more validation about how this unit performs. Appreciating this review for what it is, it has been a lot more helpful then some others I have found. What is your current opinion on this model? I think it looks better than the rigol 1054Z. My main concern would be the user interface but it seems like the more they produce and update their software the bugs get worked out

[@yoramstein]

Siglent is the producer of BK precision. If you check both sites you will see scopes are the same ! Only diff is that BKprecision is triple the price !

[@JahanZeb1976]

Excellent review. If anybody have any type of dso for give away, I am the the strongest candidate for one.

[@KX36]

I assume there's an FFT in this? Is it something usable or a totally useless gimmick like the Rigol 1000Z series?

[@JackGanssleEmbedded]

I much prefer a spectrum analyzer, but this scope's FFT is quite good (for an oscilloscope).

[@KX36]

I prefer a spectrum analyser too but it's hard to justify their high price for a hobbyist unless you regularly work with RF.

[@matthewjackson9615]

@@JackGanssleEmbedded Discrete FFT with this scope?, heck man, what value for the money.

[@darkthanatosxplods5090]

Llegue tarde para el sorteo :S

[@richardgrier4721]

Thanks for pronouncing "Bode" as I would have done. As Dave Jones might (not) say, "None of the Aussie rubbish!"

[@fredbloggs4829]

? Everybody pronounces zone as zony, and make and maky and lame and lamy and joke and joky - which is about as rubbish as saying bode and body.

[@mdesm2005]

1GSa/s is actually barely enough for a 200Mhz BW on one channel. That means 5 samples for one 200Mhz sine wave. And if you use two channels at the same time, you just can't view 200Mhz signals on both.

[@la7yka]

That can be true for a single wave. But for repetive waveforms you are wrong. Not every single wave are sampled, but samples of several similar waveforms at different angular position. In fact this scope can display up to 400MHz (sinewave, single channel, about -6dBu lower than the source).

[@malgailany]

A good scope should have a sampling rate of at least 10x its bandwidth. This scope doesn't meet that condition. Thanks

[@horsemeatburger]

That was true 20 years ago when scopes were too slow to do proper sin(x) interpolation, but we're no longer in 1986 and so even basic scopes like this Siglent can easily do sin(x) interpolation, which gives you a mathematical valid representation of your input signal with a sample rate of at least 3x of the highest frequency component in your signal.

[@vachik979]

@@horsemeatburger Таки хренушки. Если нет данных (пропущены), то из чего там интерполироваться будет? Из положения звезд на небе? ))

[@kd5ozy]

I'll stick to my Tektronix

[@kd5ozy]

thesse things look and feel like Fisher Price. The knobs are all loosey goosey,

[@matthewjackson9615]

I can't argue about the quality of Tektronix , however, I remember way back in the early 1980's when folks were loyal Apple MAC PC users. They paid the big bucks to have one of those machines while I purchased a reliable generic equivalent that did the same thing for half the price. I wouldn't down vote these generic scopes manufactured overseas, they still get the job done far cheaper than Tektronix scope. You can bet a year from now the price point on their products will have dropped even more. And some point the price competitiveness will kill the brand loyalty. Who will be willing to purchase a Tektonix scope for $20K when they can purchase a similar generic equivalent for $250.

[@neptunevibe]

1Gb/s for 200 Mhz seems like a lot to you ? ha ha.. it has 4 channels and it need like 800 samples at 200Mhz. When you are using 2 channels the sampling is split .. so is not that great.