Episode 6 Chain Preparation FAQ's

Zero Friction has re-uploaded Episode 6 with Subtitles. In this episode Adam Kerin of Zero Friction Cycling will answer all your frequently asked questions in regard to chain cleaning preparation for either immersive waxing or drip lubing.
Zero Friction Cycling conducts the worlds most exhaustive independent testing to find and
stock the best in class products only, saving you watts of friction that
are otherwise going into eating through your drive train components faster.
Zero Friction Cycling also offers the broadest range of pre ultrasonically cleaned and prepared
Chains with your choice of proven top perfoming lubricants,

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Thanks mate, great info. 2:09 - SHOULD I CLEAN A NEW CHAIN? Yes. Chains come with a factory grease to prevent rust and corrosion. Remove factory grease because it attracts contaminants, and prevents wax from sticking to the chain. 4:55 HOW TO REMOVE FACTORY GREASE? Use mineral spirits / mineral terps, then use denatured alcohol / methylated spirits. 8:29 - HOW MUCH SOLVENT IS REQUIRED TO CLEAN A CHAIN? It depends on the brand of chain. YBN, KMC, SHIMANO take 3 rounds of 250ml. 9:44 - CAMPAGNOLO factory grease requires 4 rounds, SRAM takes 5 rounds. 10:19 - IS IT WORTH CLEANING A USED CHAIN? It depends. If it's an inexpensive chain, probably not worth cleaning. If it's an expensive chain that's in acceptable condition, it's worth cleaning the chain. 12:54 - DO YOU NEED AN ULTRASONIC CLEANER? No. 14:40 - WHAT ABOUT UFO CLEAN? UFO clean is designed to clean factory grease and wax chains. It is 100% environmental friendly and eliminates the need for solvents. 16:18 - HOW TO USE UFO CLEAN? Use one 250ml bath to soak the chain for 5-10 minutes. 17:33 - SHOULD YOU RIDE A BIKE WITH A FACTORY GREASED CHAIN BEFORE YOU CLEAN THE CHAIN? Not recommended. 18:44 - CLEAN CASSETTE AND CHAINRING IF THEY HAVE FACTORY GREASE ON THEM? Yes, you should wipe them to remove any factory grease that might contaminate your new wax chain.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Thanks Ebikebuilder!!! much appreciated putting time stamps in!

[@chicagoan]

In the US it's generally called Mineral Spirits (vs White Spirits). Note we also have Turpentine as well so "Mineral Turps" could be a very confusing term in the US.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Alrighty this one had to be re uploaded so putting questions i missed answering here; From Rollin Banderob - Smoove prep similar to UFO clean? - No smoove prep is an extremely powerful solvent and not in the environmentally friendly banner. Smoove developed smoove prep as many wax emulsion lubes of that type (ie smoove / squirt ) can be a difficult clean especially on bike as not many solvents work on wax. Smoove prep is also quite expensive as is only a 250ml bottle. Smoove prep is best only for those who are looking to do an on bike clean of existing wax chain lubed with wax emulsion lubricants (brushing smoove prep on, allowing time to soften wax, rinsing off etc). Overall ZFC does not recommend this approach, but - some are simply stuck in way of cleaning chain on bike. Vastly better of course as per maintenance level one video would be to remove chain and soak in container for proper flush clean, using solvents that are vastly cheaper and more environmentally friendly (refer to ZFC maintenance level 1 video). Paul Killeen - Can msw be used with Silca wax lube for long rides where i dont have access to slow cooker? - Silca ss drip is perfect for multi day rides / holidays etc as you can apply, allow overnight set, and have a chain coating lube that is 100% compatible with msw and re-waxing when you get home without need for any cleaning intervention. It is also a great choice if you have to re-lubricate during a ride that will exceed a wax treatment lifespan, but note that you would then be running a wet lubricant so dust attraction will be similar to running a wet lubricant, and i would recommend following cleaning steps in maintenance level one video. However chances of need to re-lube with latest formula mspeedwax or hot melt are extremely low as they are very long lasting - you would have to be riding in very harsh conditions for a long ride. i competed in a 12.5hr, 213km long xc marathon event this year and chain was still silky smooth, had not even started to feel / sound dry yet - so re lubing during rides should be extremely rare. If you re-lube at end of day and allow overnight set - perfect - silca ss drip is designed to be used in conjunction with immersive waxing like this.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Brilliant. Thank you for the education.

[@pitzahoot4618]

Amazing video, answered all my questions!

[@alfa916romeo]

In German speaking countries I recommend twice cleaning applications with Waschbenzin. It will take out the factory grease very nice. After that twice cleaning applications with Kaminethanol 100 % because the Waschbenzin has a very small amount of mineral oil. I you are finished the liquid will be very clear and clean. Then I put the six chains for two bikes in my ultrasonic cleaner and yes the liquid was conterminated with some rest grease.

[@holdenc1006]

Hi, just discovered your channel as i was looking for a source to help me switch to waxing. Priceless content, thank you

[@SergeRychkov]

00:00 Introduction 02:10 Should I clean a new chain? 04:50 What should you use to remove the factory grease? 08:30 How many rounds of cleaning to do and how much solvent to use? 10:20 Is it worth cleaning a used chain for waxing or drip lube? 12:50 Do you need ultrasonic cleaners? 14:40 Do you need UFO clean? 17:30 Should you break in the chain with factory grease on, before you clean it for waxing?

[@tenrec]

I can confirm your estimate of how much solvent it takes to clean a used chain before waxing it. I recently bought a new bike and rode it for about 150 miles before I decided to try immersive waxing. I thought that since my drivetrain and bike were both new, it would be worth cleaning the chain and waxing it. I was astonished at how much dirt it contained, and how much solvent it took to get it clean (3 - 4 liters, as you suggest at around 11 minutes into the video, and in the FAQ on your website) -- and I know that even after cleaning it, it's still not as clean as a new chain would be. I just installed the chain yesterday and have not gotten to ride it yet -- but I won't do the same thing again. I will clean and wax only new chains on all my bikes.

[@jonscottclark]

Hi Adam - question for you, after you clean a new chain in UFO, rinse with boiling water, dry completely with hair dryer, and hang (indoors), how long before you give it the immersive wax treatment? Any risk if it hangs out for a few days/weeks? Thanks for all of your videos and PDFs and tireless work helping everyone 🙌

[@maffin2917]

So here in germany UFO clean is about 3-4 times more expensive per litre than Mineral turps. If I understand correctly I need at least 750ml mineral turps and only 250ml UFO clean per chain. If that correct is I would go with UFO clean since its nearly the same price and less trouble.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi maffin so sorry for delay reply - i wasnt getting notifications ! i recently updated prep instructions and UFO clean you only need 100ml to clean a chain so for most that is going to work out cheaper for sure vs traditional recommended solvents

[@apptests]

is it correct that the UFO Clean is your preferred method to clean a new chain now? I‘m new to waxing and i‘m not sure if UFO alone will be enough to clean the chain before put it in the wax🙄 thank you!

[@BiciLAB]

Amazing job mate. One question, once u have your chain perfectly clean and prepared for th ewaxin proccess,... what about the cassette, pulley wheels and chainring? Those components dont need to be also cleaned as the chain? Thanks!!!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

If they are dirty from previous wet drip lube, yes indeedy give them a good clean. New components - they are not packed in factory grease like chains, so need no cleaning. Easy as :)

[@tristanks11]

Thanks for the great videos, do you think chain cleaning tools with white spirit/ methylated spirits could speed up prep and reduce the amount solvents you need to use? Also there's an alternative to white spirit that is apparently even more environmentally friendly called Clean spirit, do you think this would work as well?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

for chain cleaning tools not really as the baths are so small. Best will actually be to use ufo clean as that is extremely concentrated and soaks up a lot of grease / oil by volume and is 100% enviro friendly - but note that part doesnt really matter too much if what you are cleaning off is not, you still must dispose properly.

[@glenngoodwin3899]

Thanks for the great info. I have what may be a silly question, here goes. is one type of wax preferable to another? In searching for paraffin wax near me, I come across canning paraffin and candle paraffin with different melting points. 120f - 140f

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

very much so - so, so, so many DIY waxings go badly and give immersive waxing a very bad reputation with bike mechanics. Cheap ass paraffin / candle wax will give you a very poor experience. Food grade (canning wax) or lab grade paraffin is best starting point for DIY wax and typically goes very well, but even in amongst that there a number of grades. Gulf canning wax is great one to use for DIY waxing - others if too soft / too hard etc can have a not as good experience - and overall treatment lifespan will not match the top waxes - but obviously you pay more for the proven top waxes - just re wax early with DIY wax (about 150km max is grand idea - dry road conditions).

[@samblackmore6555]

Great video! In the UK, methylated spirits is purple so has an additional additive, so I'm concerned that this will leave a residue on the chain. If this is an issue, can isopropyl alcohol (e.g. rubbing alcohol) be used instead?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi sam yes it is possible it may, it may also be such a low content of the additive needed to create the tinge that its fine. Iso / acetone will be safest option in your case, but much more expensive. If game, you can try the metho still, my mantuition says the tiny amount of additive wont hinder the wax. Most countries metho has an additive to make it not palatable to drink, this is invisible, but an additive all the same, and has no impact. I think yrs be very similar even with a colour tinge

[@samblackmore6555]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you for the advice, I'll give it a go.

[@Coolcmsc]

I use meths in the U.K. in the zerofriction fashion and it’s fine. No need to concern yourself.

[@johnbarron4265]

I have a new lowracer recumbent bike that came with a YBN chain, approximately 340 links long, which I assume was created by joining three factory chains, with the original grease still intact. Should I triple the solvent bath volume to 750 mL? I suppose an initial wipe down of the exterior surfaces of the chain will ease the workload of the solvent.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi john sorry long delay i was flat out leading up to xmas then been on hols! And yes you have that correct, assume cleaning 3 chains all at once so triple volumes from the guide. Note if the ybn chain is solid pin - they are ybn budget chains which wear very quickly like other budget chains, so re wax frequently to keep chain metal out of the equation as much as you can, and keep a close eye on wear. If hollow pin, that is the top of the line chains which have leading durability for 8/9/10/11spd. (12spd not as good on durability vs xtr or eagle xo1 / xx1).

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

oops have to fix title this is chain prep FAQ

[@wuttkej]

Hi, Squirt recommends soaking new orused chains in bike cleaner concentrate to prepare them for use. On paper, that sounds like another relatively environmentally friendly way of cleaning off factory grease and oil based lubes. What's your take on this? Have you tried and compared this to turps?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Jochen, yes i think i need to do more to clarify such things, i am just working on a chain maintenance guide as well. There are a number of claimed very environmentally friendly cleaners / degreasers / solvents etc on market not. And that is good. But you to remember, what are you using it to clean. if what you are cleaning off is not environmentally friendly (ie factory grease) - then using an enviro friendly cleaner is not really too different vs traditional solvent - however so may be easier / safer handling for the person using (less fumes, skin irritation if spill etc). But it will still need to be properly disposed, pouring out enviro friendly solvent with not enviro friendly oil or grease in it into our waterways / ground - i worry that enviro friendly solvents may be causing more pollution due to misconception all is sweet to just pour out, vs proper disposal that one knows they should do when using a more traditional solvent. Making sure one uses an enviro friendly cleaning agent is helpful IF one is cleaning off a lubricant that is also 100% enviro friendly - of which most of those at the moment are waxes, and most degreasers or solvents do not work on waxes, only grease and oils. I will be aiming to try to also cover this in chain maintenance guide covering at least the lubricants ZFC recommends and their safe disposal rating, as when it comes to the solvent and its credentials, that is only half of the equation obviously, but the second half is too often not considered. In short, for cleaning new chains, the enviro credentials of the solvent are really most important for the users safe handling, not re disposal, they will still need to be disposed of responsibly if using to clean factory grease.

[@froadeatmorepies9450]

After cleaning a factory coated chain using the mineral spirit/methylated spirit ( or UFO ) method do you need to rinse the chain off in water and dry it with a cloth before waxing ?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi froad metho no, just dry, ufo clean - rinse with hot water, then dry.

[@Azzy_Mazzy]

how do you make sure the chain is really clean if using different chemicals? clean from the factory grease and clean from the film left by the solvent? that UFO clean looks really impressive, if i understood you correctly you only need one bath of it and the chain is clean so it cleans better and less toxic than mineral turbs just more expensive

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

a great sign is that the chain will be what really can only be terms as "jangly" clean :). Ie it is so clean that if you hang chain over your hand and bounce it up and down, you can hear the chain making a bit of noise as there is nothing left in there to dampen any noise, the rollers will make an audible noises as they move on inner plate shoulders etc. Yes UFO clean is extremely good just remember though that whilst the product itself is 100% environmentally friendly, if used to clean factory grease - what you are cleaning off is not, so that should be disposed off responsibly. Due to cost personally i still use mineral turps and metho for cleaning factory grease / wet lube chains, and UFO clean is great if one is resetting a wax chain back to zero contamination, and the top wax lube products (hot melt, mspeedwax, silca ss drip, ufo drip) are also environmentally friendly, and smoove / squirt etc also very much in not very toxic bracket. Vs millions of households around the world currently constantly using solvents and degreasers to maintain wet lubricant drivetrans & where is all that ending up - a big part of what ZFC does is to drive cyclists to much better products that not only deliver much lower wear rates, but are just so much cleaner that a) they hardly need cleaning and b) the cleaning is extremely low / no environmental impact to maintain a magnificent drivetrain

[@Azzy_Mazzy]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks, im going to go with the UFO clean since getting methylated spirits is near impossible and there is no way to dispose of it responsibly but disposing of factory grease responsibly will be easier

[@Dubadai]

Awesome video! One question, when following your PDF guide online for cleaning the chain, 3 baths, shaking, soaking etc, my chain still leaves some small "darker" residue on a white paper towel when drying it afterwards. This is after doing 3 baths of methylated spirits, ending with acetone. Brand new 105 Shimano chain. What could be the cause of this?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey david! Yes that can still happen but the above (if using recommended solvent) ensures bond is fine. It is very difficult (a lot of baths) to get a perfectly clean wipe on white paper towel post factory grease clean. If you get a big black streak you would want to go again, but small & darker is pretty common.

[@Dubadai]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks so much for this, it was one of those things that really bothered me and was making me wonder if I had screwed up a whole chain. Thanks again :)

[@chawley52]

I live in California and don't have access to denatured alcohol. My local bike shop recommended using automotive aerosol brake cleaner, which seems to be predominantly acetone? Is this a good substitute as a final step in chain prep? (I have been using a "blue" liquid lube and want to change to immersion waxing)

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi Christopher - yes disc brake cleaners (which normally are pressurised acetone) are perfect as leave no film as that would contaminate pads / impact braking, or straight acetone (can be cheaper if you buy a tin of it, aerosol normally costs more as you are paying to have it packaged in as an aerosol). You may also be able to get isopropyl alcohol which is also perfect. It is NUTS denatured alcohol is banned! I did some googling on that, and even environmentalists have slammed it as pure political optics - it is a complete non issue as is extremely low environmental toxicity. Ie acetone is much worse! Use acetone in a very well ventilated area.

[@arturpiasecki6654]

i use imemrsive waxing - Silca Hot melt however overzealous bike shop put some smoove on top of it. I have not ridden on this chain. Is hto water bath enough to take care of the issue or should i do the turp/ alcohol removal?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi artur no thats ok (smoove wont melt off, different wax base), an application is fine, just ride that until it is starting to feel dry, then re wax and all is groovy, the 1gram of smoove left - it is still a wax - wont hurt your hot melt - it can really only start to be a problem if a bunch of coatings built up etc - a lot of people use smoove or squirt as their travel lube for wax chains and just re wax when home, no issues.

[@WowRixter]

I cannot find mentholated spirits here in Vancouver BC, but I did find bioethanol, a blend of ethanol and isopropyl. Can I do my final clean with bioethanol with out leaving a residue? I’m wondering if it will fully evaporate like isopropyl?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi ric sorry for delay reply - im not 100% sure unfortunately - there is so much different stuff out there and i just cannot test it. I am going to be updating guide soon as more places are finding it increasingly difficult to get even the lowest enviro toxicity stuff like denatured alcohol - i will be recommending mostly UFO clean and with full instructions (but basically soak, shake, remove, wash clear with boiling water, dry, done. A bottle of UFO clean will clean MANY new chains, so whilst not cheap, it actually often works out cheaper vs other solvent cost. If you cannot get Denatured alcohol for finish bath, then yes iso alcohol if you can get it, or acetone - or yep best overall now is ufo clean

[@WowRixter]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 excellent, thanks for getting back to me. I'm going to try the Bioethanol.

[@christianrodriguez3531]

How about rewaxing an already properly waxed chain, how would be the cleaning process in that case?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi christian - no cleaning, just re wax. Refer to chain maintenance guide - instructions tab - zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/chain-maintenance-guide-v4.pdf

[@v2rv]

Both Shimano and Sram say their quick links are single use only. Do you install a new quick link every time you take the chain off for cleaning?

[@chicagoan]

I don't and neither do any of the guys I ride with.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

hi sr2rv - refer to here; zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Master-Link-FAQ-Guide.pdf

[@YoutubeAnthony]

I followed advice and did not wax master links. However, masterlinks are clean and naked. I don’t want them rust. Do you store in cloth? I read master link guide and also Q&A for master link but couldn’t find it. Thank you!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey anthony! Most master links are nickel plated have good resistance to rust, but they will if wet and left exposed for an extended period. if dry used in dry, i have never seen a ybn / shimano / sram / kmc link rust. SOme unplated wippermann connex links do. To be super safe if going to be stored for ages after used then sure, wrap in a microfiber cloth (never put metal in plastic bags - that is a rust catalyst). Every climate is different but i have had used master links sitting in an open container for years and years, all fine.

[@YoutubeAnthony]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 you are truly a life saver. Great response. Thank you for changing my outlook on chain prep forever and very excited to share your videos with others!

[@Fafin_73]

7:13 bro, ther is no czechoslovakia anymore since 1993 BRUH. btw I'm from poland an mineral turps are called there mineralna terpentyna and denaturated alcochol is denaturat.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Regarding mineral turps and names in other countries... as opposed to "white spirits", in America I more often see it called "mineral spirits".

[@industryrule-4080]

Mineral spirits are banned in California. How does Simple Green Extreme (aerospace version) compare?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Terence, yes i found out recently that even denatured alcohol is banned! that is unreal. denatured alcohol is EXTREME low toxicity. I did some googling on that when i found out and a bunch of articles easily found where even green groups denounced the ban as it is apparently just for political optics as it will have absolutely zero enviro benefit. Lots of interesting regulations in california by the looks! I think from memory the aerospace one is fine as that doesnt cause hydrogen embrittlement, but other simple greens can / do - so just check that side first. Really any solvent / degreaser that does not cause embrittlement is fine, it is just that in many places, mineral turpentine is cheaper, lower toxicity, more powerful solvent on factory grease, less film left behind, and easily recycled if properly disposed. If that cannot be reasonably obtained, then move to anything of practical cost and ability to dissolve grease / oils that does not cause hydrogen embrittlement, and all will be well as long as do a couple of good alcohol baths after factory grease clean - it can just also mean perhaps a longer soak to start with if a less powerful grease solvent

[@industryrule-4080]

After some digging around I learned that odorless mineral turps can be purchased in California under the guise of petroleum-based charcoal lighter fluid. For any Americans reading this, I used Kingsford Charcoal Lighter Fluid and compared the safety sheets with that of mineral turps and the ingredients are the same.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@industryrule-4080 wow that is surprising if they are the same. Not sure how much that costs but it may be worth looking at the new chain prep guide (instructions tab) and consider getting a bottle of UFO clean - overall in many places that is really going to be the way to go - expensive for a bottle yes but usage amount is very low as it is super concentrated so it will rarely work out more expensive overall to prep a chain quick and easy with UFO clean

[@robertgreiner4703]

what 12-speed chain is most effective on shimano drivetrain?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Robert - really for the VAST majority - the shimano 12spd chains are best. They have special extended inner link plates that are needed as part of hyperglide+ shifting, and they have great wear life (at least m9100 level, havent had a chance to test 8100 or 7100). A big step up in wear life vs dura ace 11spd (nearly double). however, they also took a couple watt step backwards in efficiency - so chains like ybn sla 12spd are notably faster from a pure chain efficiency perspective - however whilst it is notable - 99.9% could not detect this in their riding or racing even precisely timed - its circa 2w, you need very specific conditions and equipment to measure any minor time difference this may make - however for sure avid / professional racers - especially time trial - can move to run the ybn sla 12 chain for the greater efficiency, giving up a little shift performance, and it has less lifespan but as a race chain that is not really a concern. Also - some will move away from shimano simply to get some colour in their life vs boring grey shimano, so giving up some wear life and shift performance to rock a gold or copper or rainbow chain etc.

[@robertgreiner4703]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the detailed answer. I ask this as i am concerned that moving from 2x 11 speed to 1x 12 speed Aero-Watt savings by the mono drivetrain are eaten up by the 12 speed chain. So a yaban chain might be better ? As a time trialist every watt counts 😊

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@robertgreiner4703 yes - roughly (this data is from ceramic speed denmark research lab) - the ybn sla 12 is one of the fastest chains ever tested, very close to dura ace 11spd, and shimano 12spd has taken a decent step back. Call it circa 5w loss at 250w load for the shimano chain and circa 3w loss for the ybn sla 12 - so its something. The degradation in shift performance is overall relatively small and mostly at the front, at the rear - you likely wont notice - so for 1x TT - the ybn sla vs shimano has been popular for sure.

[@robertgreiner4703]

@@zerofrictioncycling992sorry for inquiring you on this topic. Could not find the graph from CS. Were the chains tested against with factory grease or CS lubricant?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@robertgreiner4703 hey robert - CS have probably removed (they are updating) their own graph. I cant give you one with the watts losses, they wont let me yet, only approved one to use with a speed rating - and this has the chains tested with FG and then optimised with wax. you can find that on zfc website in chain efficiency testing -- wont post link as YT often deletes comments with link. But the figures i quoted earlier are optimised with wax, FG never gets near 3w!!! never ever ever ever ever

[@YoutubeAnthony]

Hello, How do you clean cassette and drivetrain? Can’t find any videos, only chain prep. Thanks in advance!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Anthony! no i havent covered this as this has been a bit less important - with chain the prep is very important as the wax needs to bond to clean and clear chain metal, cassette / chain rings / jockey wheels - all you want is simply for them not to be dirty so that they would contaminate your lovely new wax chain. Clean however one likes really, wet lubes are often a fairly easy clean with some cloths, some wax lubes like squirt / smoove can be a tougher clean needing stiff brushes and some strong solvent and hard work etc Brand new stuff needs no cleaning. So really it is just clean up your bits whichever way gets them nice and clean ready for your lovely new chain, and all is sweet, you dont have to worry about bonding lubricant to teeth etc.

[@YoutubeAnthony]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 perfect thank you so much for getting back to me!! Great channel and content. You just made it even better by personally replying!

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Retail Supreme Leader? Let's hope he goes all jihad on value pricing 😀👍 Alulalalalalalala.

[@andy-the-gardener]

there is no need to clean a new chain before waxing because paraffin is a powerful solvent itself. it is an unfounded unscientific assertion that the factory grease will not mix with paraffin, or not be diluted/washed off by it. its simply not true and very odd, (a superstition?), because its well known, or should be, that one of the main uses of paraffin (in the olden days) is as a solvent or cleaner of oils and greases. i find it very bizarre that nobody questions the myth that factory grease will remain on the chain after being bathed in hot paraffin. humans are so unquestioningly sheep like and tribal. mustn't offend the great tribal leader lol.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Ha andy it is not a myth! heavens to betsy do you think it has never been done? A big issue for new immersive waxers is not pre prepping the chain correctly, and the thus the paraffin is unable to bond to clean and clean chain metal. Wax coating works by having a solid wax coating on the metal parts of the chain. Mixed with factory grease you just get goop, which is slow, and messy and becomes dirty and abrasive. I have no idea why you would think this as a myth or superstition, it is seen countless times a year by mechanics and cyclists all over the world who got their prep wrong. i can also find zero information re paraffin being a solvent. Zero. Of the list of uses for paraffin, there is nothing remotely in there about being a solvent. pls show me that tech info on paraffin pls. So whilst you are on a bit of a strange high horse there having a shot at everyone believing in basic (and very easily tested and frequently observed facts) call everyone unquestioning sheep etc - perhaps a more questioning / conversational approach would have been better - ie, my belief is X due to Y - put that to me for a discussion and we can share information etc. Considering how badly things go for those who wax without cleaning factory grease, vs the most awesome time people have who properly prep the chain, the absolutely zero information out there re paraffin being a solvent, at all, and if it is in some way a solvent - claiming it to be a powerful one is a stretch indeed. And then how does it ensure, after working on factory grease - that you have a solid coating of wax and not a goop mix left on chain etc etc. Your comment is way off base andy. Read in the manufacturing of paraffin where it states the solvent used in manufacturing is recovered via distillation. It is not a solvent in and of itself. Please provide some basis for your assertion, or it will be filed under a newly created crackpot section. Paraffin wax Manufacturing The feedstock for paraffin is slack wax, which is a mixture of oil and wax, a byproduct from the refining of lubricating oil. The first step in making paraffin wax is to remove the oil (de-oiling or de-waxing) from the slack wax. The oil is separated by crystallization. Most commonly, the slack wax is heated, mixed with one or more solvents such as a ketone and then cooled. As it cools, wax crystallizes out of the solution, leaving only oil. This mixture is filtered into two streams: solid (wax plus some solvent) and liquid (oil and solvent). After the solvent is recovered by distillation, the resulting products are called "product wax" (or "press wax") and "foots oil". The lower the percentage of oil in the wax, the more refined it is considered (semi-refined versus fully refined).[20] The product wax may be further processed to remove colors and odors. The wax may finally be blended together to give certain desired properties such as melt point and penetration. Paraffin wax is sold in either liquid or solid form.[21][22][23] Applications In industrial applications, it is often useful to modify the crystal properties of the paraffin wax, typically by adding branching to the existing carbon backbone chain. The modification is usually done with additives, such as EVA copolymers, microcrystalline wax, or forms of polyethylene. The branched properties result in a modified paraffin with a higher viscosity, smaller crystalline structure, and modified functional properties. Pure paraffin wax is rarely used for carving original models for casting metal and other materials in the lost wax process, as it is relatively brittle at room temperature and presents the risks of chipping and breakage when worked. Soft and pliable waxes, like beeswax, may be preferred for such sculpture, but "investment casting waxes," often paraffin-based, are expressly formulated for the purpose. In a histology or pathology laboratory, paraffin wax is used to impregnate tissue prior to sectioning thin samples. Water is removed from the tissue through ascending strengths of alcohol (75% to absolute), and the tissue is cleared in an organic solvent such as xylene. The tissue is then placed in paraffin wax for several hours, then set in a mold with wax to cool and solidify. Sections are then cut on a microtome. Uses Candle-making Wax carving Bicycle chain lubrication Coatings for waxed paper or waxed cotton Food-grade paraffin wax: Shiny coating used in candy-making; although edible, it is nondigestible, passing through the body without being broken down Coating for many kinds of hard cheese, like Edam cheese Sealant for jars, cans, and bottles Chewing gum additive Investment casting Anti-caking agent, moisture repellent, and dustbinding coatings for fertilizers Agent for preparation of specimens for histology Bullet lubricant - with other ingredients, such as olive oil and beeswax Phlegmatizing agent, commonly used to stabilise/desensitize high explosives such as RDX Crayons Solid propellant for hybrid rocket motors[24][25] Component of surfboard wax, ski wax, and skateboard wax Ink. Used as the basis for solid ink different color blocks of wax for thermal printers. The wax is melted and then sprayed on the paper producing images with a shiny surface Microwax:[26] food additive, a glazing agent with E number E905 Forensic investigations: the nitrate test uses paraffin wax to detect nitrates and nitrites on the hand of a shooting suspect Antiozonant agents: blends of paraffin and micro waxes are used in rubber compounds to prevent cracking of the rubber; the admixture of wax migrates to the surface of the product and forms a protective layer. The layer can also act as a release agent, helping the product separate from its mould.[27] Mechanical thermostats and actuators, as an expansion medium for activating such devices[18][28] As a potting material to encapsulate electronic components such as guitar pickups, transformers, and inductors, to prevent moisture ingress and to reduce electromagnetically-induced acoustic noise and microphonic effects Textile manufacturing processes, such as that used for Eisengarn thread. Thickening agent in many paintballs Moisturiser in toiletries and cosmetics such as Vaseline. Prevents oxidation on the surface of polished steel and iron[29] Phase change material for thermal energy storage Used by MESSENGER (Mercury spacecraft), when the spacecraft was unable to radiate excessive heat.[30] Manufacture of boiled leather armor and books Neutron radiation shielding Wax baths for occupational and physical therapies and cosmetic treatments Paraffin is effective in the treatment of Osteoporosis of the hand joints. Treatment consists of dip-wrapped paraffin bath therapy for 15 minutes until paraffin cooled for five days a weeks. The use of paraffin wax bath has been shown to decrease pain at rest and during ADLs compared to groups who did not receive wax therapy.[31] Improvements in grip strength and pinch strength have been found in patients with Carpel Tunnel Syndrome, Osteoarthritis, spasticity, and post-traumatic stiffness for those who have used paraffin bath therapy along with traditional physical therapy in their recovery. It has been found that patients who have used paraffin bath therapy have yielded lower VAS and AUSCAN scores (pain scores) compared to those who did not.[32] Used for wood finishing Used as a fuel for fire breathing Used in Lava Lamps

[@andy-the-gardener]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 you are just repeating an untested assertion. an argument from incredulity. paraffin [oil], the stuff most chain waxers use in their mixtures to make the wax less flaky, is a well known solvent. it has been used by garages to clean parts for decades. i believe its called kerosene in the usa, ive just waxed a chain with factory grease on, in a 50/50 mixture of candle wax and paraffin, and it is fine. the wax is bonded to the chain and its not a mess at all. i had to use my nail to scrape the wax off. theres absolutely no way grease is not going to be removed by hot paraffin. it will simply disperse into the mixture. im not trying to be controversial. i think waxing is great and people shouldnt be discouraged from trying it. by cutting out the arduous and unnecessary preparatory steps it makes waxing far more attractive to many who will be put off by all the many steps.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@andy-the-gardener andy - a) we are not repeating an untested assertion, it is tested all the time by people who do not clean factory grease, or clean off properly, and the end result is a goopy gunky mess vs solid wax bonded to chain metal that then polishes to a fast wax coating. I have no idea why you would think we are spouting on about something we dont know, or just blindly repeating some old wives tail. It has been tested ad infinitum and continues to be so by countless riders stepping into waxing every year. b) no, paraffin oil is not called kerosene. Kerosene is called kerosene, and paraffin oil is paraffin oil. c) whatever you are experiencing with your approach, if you are happy - great. But your experience is not the one we want others to have, we want them to have the proper immersive wax experience. The one without grease as part of their wax. d) do you really think we would constantly hurt / hinder the number of cyclists willing to go to waxing due to stressing the need to properly clean the factory grease off if it was not necessary? Again this is not something that started with me, this started a long time ago, with people much much smarter than you or i, and continually reinfored - find a single reputable proven top chain lubricant - especially wax (immersive or drip) that does not stress the need to properly strip clean chain first. People who are the top people in the industry, in this field, with PHD's in chemistry and engineering - you think they do not know what they are talking about? e) again the results of people not doing so are seen constantly. Im not saying that what you are telling me is not true - if you are telling me that is your experience with your approach - then awesome. That is not others experience. I would love to see any product data material stating paraffin wax is a solvent, and or where it is used as a solvent - it was notably absent on the material i copied and pasted before. Your initial comment had that it was well known it is a powerful solvent? there should be plenty of product use information to back that up.

[@andy-the-gardener]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraffin_oil as i say, kerosene is paraffin oil. fine distinctions between the usa and english varieties is splitting hairs. either type is a solvent to greases and oils and will broadly act the same. just admit you are wrong, and you thought i was talking about candle wax, although, in its molten state, candle wax will certainly be a solvent too. waxes, oils, greases are all part of the same family of petrochemical gunk and will mix together. you are treating them like oil and water. its silly. if your claim is it potentially removes bits of metal left over from manufacturing then fair enough, if they exist, (which i'm skeptical about) but the wax bath is going to do that anyway. i can certainly understand the perfectionist mindset, but is it really worth going to so much extra trouble for an infinitesimal increase in chain life.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@andy-the-gardener ok i can admit that in north american english they may call paraffin oil kersoene, which is rather weird, as kerosene is a completely different substance (often used as jet fuel). Alas paraffin wax being used as a solvent - the burden of proof is still on thee - again there is just a) zero material i can find re that and b) refer to all the other points raised in previous comment. In this case it isnt perfectionist mindset, it is simply reality. I would love to be able to advise that people can just skip the prep process, heck i would save myself a shit ton of time cost each week / year as i pre prep circa 3000 chains pre year. Alas..... reality......