Episode 76 - E-Propulsion and Thunderstruck Motors

[@CaptainShack]

I would love to see an updated video on the Epropulsion system after a year. What are your thoughts? How well has it held up? Are the batteries holding the the same charge? Any mechanical issues or even power issues? Does it preform as you expected? Any advice for new sailors looking at a similar system? Take Care!

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

Great suggestion! We will be sure to create a video on this in the near future

[@danielculpepper8772]

Just love these videos! Outside the box thinking. Looking forward to seeing them in action! Thanks!

[@iancorporon9158]

Very creative configuration for your outboards. I love it.

[@Leblueskee]

Those slides are absolutely genius

[@threefingeredguitar]

Kristen & Gary, what a great system you've designed. I'm looking forward to see how they perform for close quarter maneuvering. I started using a Minn Kota outboard and moved on to a Caroute, which is a Chinese design. Great job!

[@sveng9933]

PE-Foam does a great job as a arrow target for bows. The holes closing again so you get a great lifespan out of the target. We used a E-Cutter to make a Dovetail connection between shorter pieces. Now you can place the pieces all over another between two woodplanks and span them with 4 threaded rods. After a while you only have to replace the pieces that get hit the most hopefully center target ;)

[@sopark434]

Cool setup. : ) Subbed, you guys deserve more subs. 😁

[@richardeverett1227]

We are considering the redesigned EVO Navy 6.0 (2024) for our 17 foot Montgomery sailboat. Overkill on power but we might use it on our PSC34 as a "oh crap" engine as well. How have your Navy 6.0s held up? The new model uses a smaller motor that is oil filled and the total weight is 64 pounds vs 79 pounds but I am trying to find out information if the static thrust on the new model is as impressive as the 279 pound static thrust of the Navy 6.0 you are using.

[@danielegstedt4223]

I am super interested in this with electric motors. I am going convert a Catalina 38 to electric . I have chosen to do 2 x 6 kw pod drives under the boat . It would be really interesting to get some info on range , top speed and optimal range speed from your boat since yours is bigger and heavier . I am thinking of 2x 13,6 kw 48 volt battery banks ( chines 3,2 volt cells at 300 amp ) , what is your thoughts of that ?

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

After our summer shakedown cruise, I have a little bit more information to provide. We find that at 1,500 Watts promoter, which is quarter power, we achieve about four knots on calm water and no wind. Recall that this is a 19 ton sailboat and we are duly impressed. Our batteries are 7.5 KW hours and so at that throttle setting we can easily obtain 4 hours of travel. That's pretty impressive to us. At no time during our cruise did we actually deplete the batteries and with a good day of sunshine they were charged back to full by the end of each day of use.

[@danielegstedt4223]

Thank you for answering. I presume that you have third party battery’s , I have talked to many sales people from epropulsion ( in Europe) and they all tell me I can’t get the communication if I don’t use epropulsion battery’s and their for it can’t calculate range or have regenerations . Is this true ? Is their away of going around it ? I don’t only want third party battery’s for the price but also I would like to try and build them under the floor in the the saloon for good weight distribution and use space that is not in use otherwise . Again so thankful to have people like you on KZbin trying thing outside the norm .

[@karaDee2363]

Very interesting

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

The technology is here and now. It is only necessary to reach out and grab it

[@socialwebwiki]

Please tell me you put screws at the end of the aluminum slides so that they can never fall out

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

Yes! Not shown but yes there is a bolt at 5he bottom of each track to prevent such a catastrophe

[@Secondwind2010]

I am thinking you could have replace the diesel with an electric motor and lithium batteries for around the same price.

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

We priced out a full replacement with the necessary horsepower equivalent for about 15-20K

[@Secondwind2010]

@@sailingaccidentalgybe wow, about how much was this install? Around $7000

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

@@Secondwind2010 I believe it was around $4, 000

[@Secondwind2010]

@@sailingaccidentalgybe a engines is $5200. I going to guess $6500. I think 6 HP is under powered. This is a good project to prove it can be done.

[@edwardkurek6393]

Hey guys - great video.... 3 quick questions, why did you opt for two separate controls with two screens, versus using the dual controller with one screen? Also, did you link any steering to these motors or do you lock the steering pin and control the steering with the throttles? Last question, i would have thought you could get closer to 50% efficiency using dual motors which is about 6 or 7 knots, so what is your top speed with these both at WOT on your boat? Thanks!

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

Good questions! It was our decision to have redundancy in our build in the event that there were a failure in one of the motors and/or controllers. As an electrical engineer, I'm a big proponent for redundancy! As for top speed, we are seeing 6+ knots at full power....which is absolutely amazing given the 19 ton displacement of this boat. Super impressed

[@edkurek3105]

🤣... as a mechanical engineer - redundancy - is exactly what i figured was your reason for fully independent setups. Yes, the twin motor setup on the ePropulsion motors really boosts their efficiency. It sounds like your running close to 50% which is awesome for that big boat. EPROPULSION is pretty good but you will encounter times in the future that make you HAPPY, you chose to be fully redundant! Congrats on your setup.

[@tedmroyer]

Wow, the whole system looks awesome. The track looks like unistrut, correct? And the slides, were you able to buy them or was it custom manufacture?

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

We used Unistrut. You are right! The slides were custom made from a block of polypropylene that we happened to have on hand in our shop back home!

[@RedemptionReady]

You can use PET foam for construction of fiberglass panels. It's closed cell so it also makes good stuff for a boyancy chamber or collision chamber fill. Those props are pitched for a planing hull. After a bit you may want to recalc and see if a prop change could offer better effecient drive or more precious control. I would be a little concerned with the mounts being sideways to the thrust in forward over time. Electric supplies a hell of amount of torque.

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

That's a great idea. We will definitely look into this. It just happened that we had a friend who had some extra fiberglass panels and the price was right, free!

[@udothiel8009]

Hello from Germany. I am deeply impressed to drive a 19t boot with two little outboards. I have a 2t cruising trimaran and would like to change to one navi 6. So it looks like that would be a good choice. Main reason is to use the hydro generation functionaltiy. I think i have plenty of sail power :-). Do you have tested it already? Since i also just need the motor to get out and back into harbours i hope to get the batteries full without shore power. And my second question is about quality. I found some posts that there are several issues with corrosion and the after sale service is not good. What is your experience so far? Many thanks for sharing your knowledge. Fair winds!

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

Thank you for writing. I do believe that one Navy six would be more than sufficient for a boat of that size. The hydro regeneration function is not available for us because we are not using the epropulsion batteries. That feature is locked out unless you utilize their batteries. That is very unfortunate for us but not a game changer since we have plenty of solar and can also charge from the generator on board if needed. We did not notice any corrosion issues so far but as you are aware likely, we take the motors out of the water when they are not in use. Of course there is some splash over and of course the saltwater environment but that has not been a problem to date. Time will tell. As for the customer service, we have been working with Annapolis hybrid Marine and as a dealer and reseller they are superb. This may not be true necessarily for all dealers. If it is convenient for you, I highly recommend their services. Hope to hear more about your project as you move forward. Any other questions, let us know and thank you for watching our channel!

[@JohnBraman413]

what's the links for the products you used? you plan on using the hydroregen function? think it might be useful keeping charged up once sailing.

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

Adding links to the description E-Propulsion www.epropulsion.com/ Annapolis Hybrid Marine (Our local dealer) www.annapolishybridmarine.com/

[@danabanana6995]

Polyethylene foam does degas when new, but it can be recycled for insulation pretty easily wondering if organizations that make shelters for animals or temporary emergency housing could use it.

[@bradleynichols1721]

Hi Gary and Kristen! This is Brad & Connie. We met and took a short ride with you guys in Deltaville on your Irwin. We had the Seawind “Flying Circus“ Great Job on your electric OB install! We now have a PDQ36 and I’m interested in installing a Navy 6 on one side. Are you able to regen without the e-propulsion batteries? They say you can’t and that’s a deal breaker for us. I’d like to talk with you about it. We have phone numbers for Gary H and Kristen B. Are these numbers yours? If so, can I text you?

[@ZakCrawford]

I would love to see if you're able to get the hydrogeneration working with non-epropulsion batteries. I know they software locked their motor controllers to not work if not connected to their batteries due to concerns about overcharging, but I'm wondering if there's any way to unlock it or connect it to a different BMS and still have it work, it looks like you've been able to connect the epropulsion throttle units to your BMS (unless they're just guessing SoC via the motor controller reported usage and capacity you configure)

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

It's a background project that I'll be looking into. Right now we are using the thunderstruck motors BMS and the epropulsion battery seem to be playing very nicely with them

[@ZakCrawford]

@@sailingaccidentalgybe That's good to hear, I've got an ePropulsion 1kw outboard I use for my dinghy but would love to tow behind the mothership for regen on a lifting outboard bracket (similar to what you've built). Two Navy 6.0's towed at 6kts would generate a sizable amount of power on passages.

[@AntoineGrondin]

i'll be curious to learn how your project ends, as I'm faced with the same question. FWIW the comms cable uses RS485, if this helps.

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

@@AntoineGrondin Thank You! That information may help me to communicate with the controllers. Thank You!

[@redwood1957]

Is the solar and controls from your old boat set up? Thank you

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

We sold the old boat. With athena, we had to start from scratch all over again

[@redwood1957]

Will you be giving info on your new battery and solar

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

We are testing now. We will definitely do an update in a future episode. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to post here and we will try to compile them into a Q&A session

[@redwood1957]

@@sailingaccidentalgybelooking for your new solar and outputs, how you separate 48vdc,12vdc,12vdc from your alternator. Batteries for motors and battery for house loads. Thank you

[@vaidotasratkus7619]

motors alone costs about 8k.. + batteries thats a 15k swap. very expensive... have you thought about inboard electric?

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

We did actually consider inboard electric quite extensively. We went back and forth on this idea but ended up deciding that with a 19 ton boat, we just would not be able to do long distance motoring if we needed to. Coupling this with the fact that we have still a capable diesel that can handle such tasks, we decided that electric motive power in this boat would be supplementary to the diesel. If the diesel decides to fail, we would look at our options again as the price of Lithium batteries drops and the energy density increases

[@vaidotasratkus7619]

@@sailingaccidentalgybe 38ton? Wow, now I understand the idea, thanks

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

@@vaidotasratkus7619 apologies. 19 ton. 38,000 lb. Still on ultra heavy boat for its class

[@helmuthgeiser4103]

What is the weight of Athena ? And what is the top speed with the two 6 kW e-propulsion outboard (no sail) you have reached ?

[@sailingaccidentalgybe]

19 tons and we can get close to hull speed for a short period. Note that doubling speed cubes the power requirements.

[@helmuthgeiser4103]

@@sailingaccidentalgybe , thank you for your kind and quick response. I am currently building a 53’ x 20’ catamaran style boat, which is supposed to have a final weight of 9 to 10 metric tons (19,840 lb to 22,000 lb) , and am wondering if 2 E-Propulsion Evo 6 pod drives (same power as the outboards you use) would suffice for decent speed at 50% power, or if I would have to install 4 of them (two on each hull instead of 1 per hull). The hulls are narrow (4’ maximum width, with a 11’ point from 4’ to 2”, and the supposed immersion depth between 18” to 20” -very shallow draft-) We have 4 48 V LiFePo4 batteries with 100 Ah each, and 8 kWh solar panels as well as an 8 kW inverter-charger (220V / 110 V / 48 V), to charge the batteries and for the “house load”, so plenty of power during daylight, I assume… What do you think ?