Eps 378: Expert Rifle Advice From Expert Rifle Builder

Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! Real rifleman and Gun Builder Darrell Holland joins us for a long, in-depth discussion to answer any gun building questions you can think of!
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@danielmoore8538]

RIP Paul Harrell

[@jerryconrad2737]

Wow what a treasure of knowledge. This guy is next level and then some. Thanks Ron.

[@paul7754]

Wow - Darrell Holland! I have a number of gunsmithing videos by Mr. Holland when he was a part of a program I subscribed to. He knows his stuff - been at it a long time. Likely a pioneer in understanding accuracy and long range shooting. He's an example of the older independent generation where many people became experts by learning through hard work. Good to see him doing well!

[@dawwlo]

That would be Randy Selby...

[@Ironhide18Z]

Really good show Ron. Probably your best. I think you do your best work with a guest, like Mr. Holland or Mr. Von Benedikt. Please do more with Mr. Holland. Thank you.

[@rosswitte]

One of the best conversations I have ever heard.

[@cmichaelallen1138]

What a great conversation, almost information overload, but so informative. He has so much information to pass along and I was able to comprehend most of it, but as a 68 year old, all three of my brain cells were working overtime. If I can just remember half of what he discussed, it will make me a better shooter and hunter. I will have to watch this video over and over again. Thanks for bringing him on and keep up the great videos.

[@Q_Sertorius]

I’ve carried my 14.8 pound .22-250 all summer (two walks around the farm every day). I call it my training rifle. I got out a deer rifle yesterday (a nice 8 pound .270) and it felt like a toothpick. It was so lovely.

[@keithprinn720]

understand

[@jfess1911]

The comment about throat diameter (early in the video) only apply to "match style" chambers. Many modern cartridges (and all the Weatherby Mags) have a snug tube-like section of freebore between the case and the tapered throat into the rifling. For most recent cartridges, this freebore is barely larger than the bullet ( 3 to 6 ten-thousandth of an inch) This lines the bullet up with the bore and makes certain that the bullet is not slightly tilted when the rifling is engraved into it. This and tends to make the rifle less picky about what loads it shoots accurately. The 308 has this type of cylindrical freebore, but it is much looser, at a minimum of 20 ten-thousandths of an inch. Competition shooters that use the 308 typically have their rifles made with a tighter freebore, sometimes of a specific length for the specific bullet they plan to use. Almost every cartridge designed after 2005 uses this type of chamber as well as the 7mm Rem mag, 7mm-08, 260 Rem, 25-06, 222, 223 and some other popular cartridges. Quite a lot of older cartridges don't have this section of cylindrical freebore prior to the throat that tapers into the rifling. The 30-06, 270, all Win Mags (WSMs) and many others just have a funnel-shaped throat into the rifling to act as a forcing cone. While these CAN be accurate, it typically takes a bit more fiddling to get there. The sloppier the widest part of the forcing cone, typically the more difficult to find an accurate load. The 300 Win Mag, for example is notoriously fickle, partly because its forcing cone starts at a minimum, 70 ten-thousandths of an inch larger than the bullet. The 30-06, 26 ten-thousandths of an inch, the 280 Rem (and AI), 16, and the 270, 13, This is the smallest it can be, but the SAAMI tolerance allows it to be up to 20 ten-thousandths of an inch larger diameter. The numbers I mentioned are for a "minimum spec" chamber. There are plenty of custom reamers for older cartridges to give them the more modern match-style chambers, if you are getting a custom barrel made.

[@davidtennyson4908]

I have a Holland break on a 338 RUM. Bought years ago when it was advertised as the "quiet muzzle break". And sitting behind the rifle, it's not bad. 338 RUM kicks less than my 308 win. As a plus, that extra weight at the end of the Remington 700 actually tighted my groups substantially. This man and his products rock.

[@jaimegarcia5316]

Papa Ron, I think you may have missed an opportunity to ask why mono metal copper bullets don't do well after shooting "regular" bullets.

[@davidruppel1216]

Outstanding interview! Mr. HOLLAND is a wealth of knowledge. Thank you Ron!

[@christopherjensen1677]

That is definitely a class I need to go to since I haven't been out hunting since I was 18. Just moved to the Idaho falls area and getting back into hunting.

[@snookmeister55]

Work separated me from hunting and I've enjoyed resuming it. Good luck.

[@robertagusti3712]

Wow this man is from another planet yes so much wisdom, and i agree in must everything you said even in the heavier side of barrel for hunting rifles,what a great podcast Ron.

[@unixpro2]

Hi Ron and Darrell, great video, one of the best I’ve seen. Saving my Starbucks money to take a class with Darrell and his team. I doubt I’ll have enough to go with Ron and his crew next year, but I can dream.

[@45-70Guy]

Hopefully you don’t go back to Starbucks since they are using their profits to keep you from having guns. It’s a double whammy if you save it for a trainer course

[@tristanlowe3747]

Thanks Ron. I thoroughly enjoyed this podcast. Full of very helpful information, and found it very entertaining. Thanks for the effort you put into your videos. Keep up the great work. Cheers

[@kylejohnson4340]

The caveat to over cleaning is corrosive ammunition mainly found in surplus ammunition the primer compound residue needs to be cleaned out or your barrel will rust

[@xb5883]

This isn't an outdoors podcast. It's about guns and cartridges.

[@drakeslocum2564]

Great conversation and video!

[@sergioguillen1037]

Certainly one of the best episodes you have had Ron! I will be looking forward to going to hunting school next year.

[@keithburt4734]

2 men with the best hunting information for shooting ethically.

[@bentaylor216]

Great conversation. Really enjoyed this. Thank you Ron.

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

Informative. Great questions in there.

[@ntokozodlamini8426]

Once again, thanks a lot for a phenomenal interview gentlemen. So many things to learn about the shooting world.

[@giuseppecannata5544]

Ron, this was one heck of information. Really enjoyed watching and listening to both of you. Would love to attend a class. Keep us informed. Thank you

[@rodneypackard8423]

The only buck I've ever killled with a rifle was at 14 yards. I had a ruger with a 26-inch barrel. I could see more than 40 yards in the swamp. 25/06.

[@Oldhogleg]

One of your better interviews 👍

[@balaton1]

Wow, this was a stunning conversation! I need to do push ups after this. Awesome!!!!

[@Nobody-Nowhere-USA]

An Ex is a has been and a spert is a drip under pressure , thats the first thing i think of when someone claims to be an expert! Most often this is a spot on observation !!!! I would have to agree with his comments about shooting weak hand often.

[@brianschumaker5912]

Ive had excellent results with Starline brass.

[@briancarnahan6421]

This video and knowledge is a game changer really gets you thinking this video opened my eyes

[@jimyeats]

Do we really need aluminum pillars for stocks made from non-compressible materials that are impervious to changes in humidity or temperature? I'm not purporting in any way to be a well informed on this subject, but my understanding, and my experience, has been that in wood stocks or budget polymer stocks, sure, pillars make sense as it provides a non-compressible surface that will be immune to changes in the wood. For stocks made of rigid non-compressible material like carbon fiber (or other material) that have a thick carbon fiber block at the action screws (usually), are pillars really adding anything?

[@45-70Guy]

They are adding the guarantee that it’s consistent when you torque it down.

[@ed5042]

really enjoyed the video, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@leroybaker1373]

Ron please look into hawke products. I have been using hawke scopes for years now. And they are great. In my opinion they are just as good as Leopold scopes.

[@45-70Guy]

Good to know

[@bentaylor216]

Your elk bugle woke my dogs up Ron!😂

[@pepepepito623]

Oh,well .that was me,waiting on the video uploading...inching on that liquor cabinet...

[@donbenson5292]

Great video. Using several of Darrels products. He built some very nice custom rifles. Very good common sense hunting. I like that gadget obsessions. I call it tacticool shit. Give me a crosshair with some dots and I'll figure the rest. PBR seved me well. I am laughing here at the bore sighters, gadgets that take less shots... hmmm. Doesn't practice make perfect. Those first shots after mounting a scope on a new rifle. 5 shots and I am zeroed at a hundred, I use them for breaking the rifle in, one shot clean method. I am a traditionalist, I like wood. I varmint hunt mostly, wear ear protection always. Gee lots of info...

[@rodneypackard8423]

I once killed a little fork horn with a bow at less than 10 feet.

[@CB-68-westcreations]

it's really cool to see two people with that much experience having this discussion. I really like the fact that he pointed out some of the classic rifles could be effective enough instead of pushing the big magnums. 65 Creedmoor., 30-06(my personal favorite) , or a good 7 mm will do the job. I'm looking into that 7 mm PRC. I think it might be my next universal rifle. I also like a a good reticle in a fixed power 10X scope. It just works.

[@drakeslocum2564]

I’ve got a 7mm PRC early this year, but haven’t taken game with it yet

[@rosswitte]

Ron jokes but the Omega 300 has a muzzle brake after the suppressor ends...:)

[@BruceCummins-c1l]

Hello from Iowa 😊

[@JohnGriffith-w2w]

My rifles are accurate however, they are only accurate if someone who knows how to shoot is doing the shooting. I happen to be an expert at missing. It’s my specialty. ! 😂 ❤

[@CB-68-westcreations]

This is a fantastic interview. I like how they relate bench shooting versus in the field, I can hit the target six or 8 out of 10 rounds at a mile, but I'm not gonna hunt past350- 450 yards at max, because the conditions are entirely different. There's almost no chance of getting a perfect position and whether while hunting.

[@joshuacrowe2752]

That sounds like fun

[@Accuracy1st]

I understand the topic on what people "need" in terms of rifle scopes and magnification for hunting but do not necessarily agree with it because we don't all have the same vision. My vision has been poor since I was a child. I sure wish I could manage with 36 or 40mm objectives and low magnification but I did that early on and seldom hit the animal where I was aiming. Started beefing up the glass and it's been gold ever since. Hunters should pick glass that matches THEIR vision and visual acuity, not what others say they should need. I say this respectfully of course.

[@Wheelchair-bear]

Also, when he suggested a custom rifle, I cannot agree with that. Guarantee neither one of these guys had a custom rifle for their first rifle. Probably not there, second or third either. The new budget friendly Vanguards, CVA's, Rugers, Savages........ all shoot better than most shooters capabilities in the field. A cheek riser with a 36mm scope?

[@Accuracy1st]

@@Wheelchair-bear You mean when Holland said to get a custom action v a Rem 700, etc.? If so, here's what I have seen: a well trued 700 for a hunting rifle, for me, has done equal to or better than a custom and I have multiple Rem 700 clones including LonePeakArms, Defiance, Stiller, Terminus, Pure Precision. The downfall for the Rem 700 is that, while not absolutely necessary, it is better to change out the fire control with an aftermarket like PTG or Gre-Tan to help obviate friction which is a cause of fliers - the good ole 2 in 1 hole then shot 3 an inch or so away. I think what he was getting at was by the time you spend the money on a Rem 700, add the bumps, better fire control/ignition, and true the action and bolt, you might as well go with a custom action at that point. Frankly, the reason I still buy 700s for builds is you can still get the bottom metal or DBM with it whereas a custom action, you have to buy separately.

[@jaydunbar7538]

As general advice he’s right on the money about having the heavier rifle, average hunter isn’t doing 12 miles on foot in a backpack hunt so the ultralight rifle won’t be much good to them, they also won’t put in the practice time to make sure that light rifle doesn’t cause them a problem. So more likely driving most of the miles and limited practice time makes that heavier rifle the easy choice for the average person.

[@keithprinn720]

the noise from muzzle breaks is causing so much hearing damage a can makes better sense, that story about the kid with the old featherweight with a smaller lighter Leupold makes so much sense. especially in a classic wooden stock classic rifle.

[@Zer0Edits00]

If only they allowed them in all states

[@Steve-vx2xp]

I’m color blind I’ve tried the rangefinding binoculars but the orange cross hair blend in The surroundings unless I have a dark background

[@johnnash5118]

I put Holland's Radial Baffle Muzzle Brake on my 7mm SAUM, it offers improved recoil reduction due to the unique radial baffle design. Radial baffles trap the gas and divert it around the shooter in a rearward direction, increasing the recoil reduction over a 90 degree exhaust pattern. Radial baffles increase the surface area for the gas to work against, providing exceptional performance. Our blank area on the bottom of the brake virtually eliminates the dust cloud signature and prevents dirt and debris from being kicked around the shooter. Imagine being miles from the truck and getting something in your eye from a 360 degree ported brake! Holland brakes are better by design.

[@Yuffarium]

Am I wrong in thinking your rifle can be canted as long as the scope is level? Surely you could hold your rifle at 90degrees as long as your scope is level all your adjustments will be still be accurate

[@45-70Guy]

As long as you do it the same way at the same degree every time it doesn’t even matter what you do.

[@jasonshults368]

22-284 is fast and efficient. Seems like that is about the top end if you want to keep the barrel life above 1000 rds.

[@roddecker1900]

Boughtsport hunting classic. Cheap att favorite gun show.3/ 16th s of an inchatt end was ruinedto exposier is a reamer att muzzel end made to cut beyond the 308 going to work on this . Rifle ing good to keep

[@josojoso1974]

28 nosler in 20" is like 308?

[@jamespowell7609]

So what you are saying is that as long as I have about $6,000 lying around I can put together a pretty good hunting rig?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Actually, I think you can set up a decent hunting rifle for $700, maybe $500 if you buy used or get a simple, break-action single-shot. Should be plenty accurate for shots to 300 yards, perhaps even 500, not that I recommend anyone routinely shoot game that far.

[@Teamodraco]

Amazing

[@rosswitte]

What 280 does Darrel Holland use? Is it the 280 AI or the 280 Remington or something else?

[@gilream]

he did not specify did he? I was wondering the same thing. Plus Holland was WRONG when he stated the 6.5 PRC was NOT a short action cartridge. Why would he say something that's obviously false?

[@rosswitte]

@@gilream 6.5 PRC is not short action. It is technically intermediate. Just use the long/standard action and be done with it.

[@drakeslocum2564]

I’m pretty sure the 280 Remington because he did say he didn’t like fire forming brass for the 280 ai, which comes from the 280 Remington

[@rosswitte]

Hubbell riflescope line is hilarious!

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

I never hear ANYONE with sense claiming 1/4" groups "all day long " at 100 yards from a factory rifle.

[@brianschumaker5912]

No, but 1/2 inch groups are absolutely doable with properly crafted handloads.

[@Zer0Edits00]

I’ve done it… a couple times.. but definitely not all day long, that’s not doable

[@snookmeister55]

​I've once seen 1/2 MOA with a factory rifle, factory ammo. My brother did it. . @brianschumaker5912

[@45-70Guy]

What’s scary is I been running 4” groups with open sights for years and never had an animal need more than 1 shot. Then I come over to the dark side and start seeing the rabbit holes that go DEEP that can suck us in when many of us only hunt and don’t do precision shooting. 1.5” at 100 is plenty out to 300 yards. Ask the old timers who have 100’s of kills

[@snookmeister55]

Scary? Can't imagine. I'm not young so I don't really need to ask old guys. Precision works, everywhere, all the time. . . .​@@45-70Guy

[@Wheelchair-bear]

A custom rifle?, guarantee neither one of these guys had a custom rifle for their first gun. Probably not there, second or third either; the new budget friendly Vanguards, CVA's, Rugers, Savages........ all shoot better than most shooters capabilities in the field. A cheek riser with a 36mm scope?

[@andrewyoung5877]

Ron eye oftenwatch your videos and I have a question I understand if you don't answer mine I'm not a patreon I own a Remington 700 and love it I bought one of my brothers a Remington 740 and 30 ought 6 I think he is going to love it The youngest brother I bought a 270 and a Savage axis It is a good gun but I feel like I cheaped out and I'm thinking about taking it in for a Remington 700 similar to mine Do you think I cheapped out going with the Savage?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

I measure a rifle's value in its performance as well as its durability and appearance. Each of us determines for ourselves which aspects matter to us. If your brother values a rifle's market price more than its performance, a lower priced rifle would seem "cheap" to him. If he values accuracy and the "cheap" rifle shoots lights out, he'd consider it great value. I've found Savages deliver amazing accuracy in most cases. I even took a couple to Africa where they did everything I asked of them out to 350 yards on species as small as dik dik and large as eland.

[@Tenforward1]

Montana speed goats won't let you get within a 1/4 mile of them. Maybe if your crawling like a sniper in Vietnam but they don't wait around that long.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Sorry you've not been able to stalk closer. Pronghorns certainly can be alert and wary, but by stalking carefully I've been able to get at least within 350 yards of mine. Many I've stalked to bow range. I still missed with my bow, but at least I got close!

[@raymondeldridge6315]

What would the result of a 8 twist in a 30 - 06 just a thought

[@jasonshults368]

It would work great for the super-heavies 240+ grains. And you could load them at subsonic velocities.

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

The "result would be a bit more drag wind drift with all bullets frim the vaning effect of the steep rifling grooves in the bullets. With longer bullets of 210g or more, the bullets WILL stabilize better any get full use of their BCs.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

The faster twist would stabilize the longest .308 bullets. Velocity would be quite low, but wind deflection would be minimized.

[@gilream]

He says the 6.5 PRC requires a Long Action? What? He's wrong about that.

[@russellburnett1290]

Hello Ron are we in deep space?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

For anyone living on Alpha Centauri, we on Earth are in deep space.

[@JohnSmith-f6o]

Any time somebody uses the phrase "All day long" when talking about accuracy, they are lying! Let them put 10 groups on a single piece of paper at the accuracy level they are bragging about - they won't do it.

[@jasonshults368]

I've had some prolific outings as a youngster, but I haven't done the "all day long" thing for 35 years.

[@brianschumaker5912]

It depends on how you do it. Shooting round after round and not allowing a cool down between shots won't get it done. BUT if you shoot one round every 10 minutes to allow a complete barrel cool down, it's plausible.

[@lawrencestanley8989]

Meh, as long as I can hit a 9-inch paper plate at 100 yards, that's all I care about. I never hunt beyond that range.

[@danhandke5012]

👍💪👏🏻💪👏🏻👍

[@lmbear]

Getting single digit SD's is easy to do. Consistency is key. You don't have to buy/use Lapua brass to get this done. If I shot for Lapua, and they were giving me brass, I'd maybe say you need it. Some of the things this guy is talking about, like uniforming primer pocket depth etc. is unnecessary. Use good brass, work up with OCW, and shoot groups and let your rifle tell you what it likes. You don't even need a chronograph to tell you, you are getting single digit sd's when doing this. If you know how to shoot well, you can develop excellent loads, with minimal fuss. Use good components, prep your brass well, and be consistent. Using the right powder has just as much to do with getting excellent precision as anything else does. Again, that falls in the use the right components rule. These guys keep flopping back and forth about hunting rifles and benchrest rifles. Decide what you are wanting to do. Keeping in mind, you aren't going to be skimping on the process, no matter what you are shooting. There was also no mention as to how concentric you handloads are. You have to be loading straight ammo, to produce consistently accurate ammo. Set up your dies, so they produce sub .003" TIR. The straighter the ammo, the better it's going to shoot. Did they discuss the foundation of the rifle, and having the mechanicals dialed in? That means proper glass bedding, good scope mounts, scope rings in perfect alignment, and good optics. Meaning "proven" rifle scope. Your rifle/scope and load are always a known entity. They have to be, or you will not have the confidence to place your shots. Also, keep in mind, there are factory rifles out there, that shoot damn well right out of the box. Some of these are even budget minded rifles. Also keep in mind, every rifle will do better when it's properly tuned. Don't skimp on a rifle, or your accuracy will suffer. By that I don't mean, don't skimp on price tag, because that can be deceptive. What I mean is, glass bed your rifle, use good scope mounts, good scope and excellent load. After that, it's all up to you!!!

[@albosarge6524]

I usually like Ron’s content, but this is two of the driest most boring podcast in a row

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

This can't be two of the driest most boring podcast because it's only one dry and boring podcast. Sorry we weren't more entertaining, Albo.

[@albosarge6524]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast I tried to watch the outdoor life podcast and the expert rifleman podcast. Couldn’t find interest in either one. So for me, it was two in a row. But to be honest, those are the only two of your videos I can remember not watching the end. keep up the good work. it was your guest that I found boring not necessarily you or the subject matter

[@gilream]

I thought it was pretty compelling myself..good work Ron. BUT...Holland claims that the 6.5 PRC requires a long action? He's wrong about that.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

@@gilream I think what Holland was saying is that with it's COAL of 2.955", the 6.5 PRC is not a good fit for the 2.8" COAL common to short-action (308-Win.) magazines/rifles. You have to seat high B.C. bullets a bit deeper than optimum when using a 2.8 max. COAL magazine rifle.

[@gilream]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast Ron, I'm about to build an ultra light rifle and seriously thinking about the 6.5 PRC cartridge for it. My gunsmith says that the short action is the way to go. (p.s. He likes the idea of the 6.5 SAUM too.)