Lionel's Brass Hybrid Challenger is Exciting and Different!

[@Ericstrains]

A few notes: 1) This video has chapters for those who wish to skip around. 2) Minimum Required Curve: O-72 3) CSA = Challenger Simple Articulated 4) Retail price on the brass hybrid Challenger is $2,499.99

[@anthonybryant584]

I’m actually surprised that minimum curve is still O-72 given that it’s a decent bit shorter. Still an amazing model regardless and gonna be quite a show piece when it goes into full production

[@tobyyoder8350]

@Erics Trains , you should definitely get the Forty Niner Challenger

[@fernandosantiagorodrigueze2655]

A Replica in true Scale

[@BXGUY73]

The BEST PART is the REALISTIC SPACE between the ENGINE & TENDER. All of the trains should be like this. The VISIONLINE NIAGARA was very ground-breaking for LIONEL VISIONLINE.

[@BXGUY73]

@@conductorjohnmthtrains2239🤷‍♂ 🤣🤣🤣The kids might damage it. They can look BUT DON'T TOUCH!!!

[@Hazztech]

Why do you TALK in ALTERNATING block CAPITALS?

[@BXGUY73]

@@Hazztech To stress the important part.

[@bigharryyy03]

That feature was originally on the Milwaukee Road S-3, but they decided to bring it back for the Visionline Niagara

[@MrLunchHour2]

The legacy big boy has a great gap. Also the new vision line class a has the best gap I’ve seen so far

[@jaystrains27]

The prototype looks awesome!! I have the Greyhound version preordered and am even more excited to get it now after seeing this!

[@DerpyPossum]

This gives me massive nostalgia for when you reviewed the Legacy 3985 back in 2011. Was probably the first video of yours that I watched 👍 This one is, by far, a beautiful model, and I adore all those features! Would love to see them do more of these pre-war variations of the bigger locomotives :)

[@Ericstrains]

Cool, thanks!

[@spotmikestudios1020]

That performance from the engine, was AWESOME!!!!! 10/10

[@Ericstrains]

Glad you liked it!

[@andyoutwesttrains]

Can't wait for these to show up. I ordered the 49er paint scheme since I missed the last one.

[@ColtonRMagby]

I'm glad you're feeling better. Hope your voice doesn't quit on you again.

[@Railfan105.]

Looks pretty good. The CSAs were always underrated UP steam.

[@huntercoleman460]

They look extremely similar to a Bull Moose.

[@rick1716]

Eric, Nice review and running session! 👍🏻 Rick’s trains and materials

[@henryszubielski8601]

Eric, This is a very nice locomotive! Glad you were able give us an early view and review of it. Thanks, to you and Lionel!

[@JOEMAMA_534]

This is looking SHARP! Looks like a weaver model!

[@Khalif-AllahEntertainment]

14:54 - 15:05 Jeez! That speed! I never saw you give any model train at maximum speed. Very rare moment but cool!

[@bigharryyy03]

I hope they make a brass hybrid Berkshire because I want to finally see a prototypical C&O Kanawha from Lionel. Hopefully they’ll get the dome placement and the longer tender correct if they do make one. It would make sense since 2716 is getting closer to being restored. By using the brass hybrid process, they could also make a Polar Express engine that has the correct front end (and hopefully white lettering on the tender instead of gold).

[@bearowen5480]

Great review, Eric! I have a couple of 3rd Rail's brass 3800 Class Challengers, but I think I really need this electronic marvel too in its prototypically correct black and pewter livery. I wish you had talked, as you do so well, about the prototypical history of the first Challenger types to appear in American railroading. The 3800s were truly revolutionary locomotives that filled a serious performance void for a small number of mostly Western railroads. As America's industrial output exploded before the Great Depression, there was a serious growing need for a high speed articulated freight locomotive possessing both a high tractive effort for starting long, heavy tonnage trains, but that could drag those same trains over the winding trackage of mountainous terrain at respectable speed without adding helpers. The type was perfect for the UP's Western territory where 400 miles of relatively flat land permitted the early Challengers to speed mile long time freights across Nebraska, but that could also run on through Cheyenne onto the the challenging grades and curves of Sherman Hill's Continental Divide in Wyoming, and the tortuous climb over Utah's Wasatch, often without the need to double-head. Later, the fame of the iconic 3900 Class of ALCO's heavier Challengers like the UP Steam Program's familiar 3985, with their higher boiler pressure and larger capacity tender, overshadowed their trail blazing 3800 class progenitors. This has been unfortunate, because the classically handsome 3800s deserved a much greater following in the O scale modeling genre than they received, at least until recently. 3rd Rail's 3800s started to rectify that injustice when they were offered in gorgeously detailed brass nearly twenty years ago. In the intervening period since then, Lionel and MTH both presented us with a plethora of improved Challenger versions with all the compelling electronics and varied paint schemes needed to satisfy the market except that they were always of the newer, larger, and heavier 3900 class machines which, in my opinion, lacked the aesthetic lines of their smaller and more classical siblings. Fortunately for us, Lionel has chosen to create this beautiful model to fill that void and correct an egregious oversight in the depiction of historically significant American steam locomotives, and of a highly detailed brass hybrid construction to boot! The logjam is broken, and we're all the richer for it. Well done, Lionel!

[@byronpeterson795]

Great sneak peak, thanks Eric. So glad I was able to pre-order one of these beauties.

[@zacharyspinks6207]

What a Nice Preview of this Model.👍

[@angeloavanti2538]

Nice views. Thanks Eric.😎

[@BigBerk765]

14:54 OK, just how fast is that for real? That train is bookin’. That looks like it’s around 30mph or so. I’m imagining a life-size car moving with the train and that looks around 25-30mph. That’s fast, man. Holy smokes.

[@juliaandreagoyochea9006]

This is polar express

[@BigBerk765]

@@juliaandreagoyochea9006 The Polar Express is a passenger train, not a freight train. Also, wrong locomotive. A Berkshire pulls The Polar Express, not a Challenger.

[@juliaandreagoyochea9006]

Challenger is passenger and freight

[@danielboone3770]

Love the Challenger!

[@nikerailfanningttm9046]

My husband ordered me a vision line locomotive for Christmas. He didn’t say which one it is but he said it is “BIG”. And I already have the Vision Line 4014, so I wonder if he ordered a Vidion Line challenger! God the excitement is killing me! I feel like a little kid again!

[@dillontrainvids25]

What did you end up getting?

[@nikerailfanningttm9046]

@@dillontrainvids25 whatever it is, it still hasn’t arrived yet! I’m not kidding either. This has to be one hell of a surprise!

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

You are extremely lucky to get such an engineering model.

[@buecomet831]

Finally the Fetter Challenger getting some loving.

[@charlesmcclure5994]

That is a great looking engine I'm sure either one that you order will look great for your collection 👍👍

[@andrewjackson9417]

Greyhound looks amazing on a Challenger. I have 2 if you're considering a painted version it's very nice.

[@davidstrainsandlego]

Very cool to see this, love this thing

[@richardjayroe8922]

Fun Fact: Brass Hybrid locomotives we're made long before this one with Broadway Limited Imports

[@ronanvave560]

I wish at least one early challenger was saved. They look good, especially the center headlight.

[@chainsawcharl1e677]

Love the staggered chuffing between the front and rear "engines". Also, I hope Lionel adapts the tooling for the release of the U.P. Early Challenger's cousin, the Delaware and Hudson J-95.

[@Chessie1985]

Cool review Eric!!!!

[@Ericstrains]

Thanks!

[@Chessie1985]

@@Ericstrains You're welcome!!

[@davebrown6598]

Great model of an overshadowed prototype!

[@northpennvalleysteamrailroad]

Awesome locomotive! Lionel did good on it. No one has created the light challenger in o scale.

[@blackbirdgaming8147]

Sunset/3rd Rail actually did this locomotive long before Lionel even thought of it.

[@Ericstrains]

meh

[@northpennvalleysteamrailroad]

@@blackbirdgaming8147 oh. Never saw it!

[@marslightmodeling1753]

@@blackbirdgaming8147It was probably a better model too

[@cjstrader8171]

Eric, I don't mind 3985's predecessor it does look good, but another challenger you could try would be the Z-6 challenger of the Northern Pacific railroad. It had the exact same origins much like this "Fetter" challenger.

[@NetGreen123]

Eric, I know how you feel. I got the same virus, so I was sick all Thanksgiving week. I know your pain.

[@Ericstrains]

Sorry to hear that

[@OmniRoad]

every video, you make me want to do O scale more and more

[@vp.7002]

Finally have a model of the early type challanger

[@HarryRollisProductions]

The Crewtalk REALLY made me believe that this was an MTH engine. Not to mention the finish on the paint scheme.

[@Ericstrains]

Yeah it’s great

[@davidmackey344]

What would it take to get the valve gear out of neutral? One more pivot point?

[@Doc.6466]

Great looking locomotive! Nice to see a challenger instead of a big boy… again…

[@robbypace1]

that engine is so cool and how did Lionel send it to you

[@frankierailfan4014]

How do you put the smoke fluid in the locomotive for the whistle steam

[@Ericstrains]

Smoke fluid added to the smokestack is also used for whistle steam.

[@frankierailfan4014]

@@Ericstrains thanks for the clarification. I got a couple of steam engines that have steam effects but I have never used them with smoke fluid so I just wanted to make sure I knew

[@bowser5678]

Are we also going to talk about how this Challenger has realistic hollow axles on the drive wheels instead of just a metal rod running through them?

[@huntercoleman460]

Right of Way made a Bull Moose and it looks similar to this.

[@NW-gi1cp]

Waiting for that model of me 😀

[@VintageRenewed]

The sound effects are cool, especially the air brake test Although I have to be honest, the responses for when they were set and then released was way to quick. It takes time for brakes to release so if they even just had the guy wait like 5 or 10 seconds before saying to release brakes or that the test was good would take the model to the next level

[@NinjagoGuy416]

If you ask me, all a brass hybrid model is is an excuse to significantly and unnecessarily drive up the price. Broadway recently released a brass hybrid model of this very engine in HO scale, and its MSRP was $899; even at discounted retailers like Factory Direct it was in the neighborhood of $749. I guarantee that if the model had been simply die cast metal throughout, it would’ve have been at least $250 - $300 cheaper. I’m willing to sacrifice a little bit of detail if it means I’m getting a still great looking model for a much more reasonable price

[@GoldStandardTrains]

I agree. I have the Lionel Brass Hybrid VL GS-1 and there is still molded in details(makes no sense on a brass engine) and honestly not a lot of detail to warrant making it brass hybrid. It just seems like a money grab. Would rather it had been all deicast. They claim it allows them to make one-off engines if it is brass hybrid. If this truly is the case, I guess I can understand that, but the pricing is insane for what you get. I passed on this engine bc of the pricing compared to features. And after seeing this, I think I made the right call. It doesn't seemed any more detailed compared to most Visionline or even Legacy engines and all that space to only have stack and whistle steam(especially up by smoke stack) isn't anything amazing. BLI HO engines have more detail and are 1/2 the size.

[@NinjagoGuy416]

@@GoldStandardTrains Exactly, that’s why BLI is my go-to for HO scale steam. I don’t model in O scale because I don’t have the space for it, but I still follow Lionel closely, and it disappoints me to see that they’re also following this money-grubbing trend, just like the HO manufacturers. BLI also recently announced a C&O Mikado to be released early next year, and I was about to preorder one until I realized it would be a brass hybrid with an MSRP of $749. A completely unreasonable price for any Mikado locomotive, you should never have to pay more than $450 or maybe $475

[@ralphmiller2265]

Nowadays, with CAD programs, a diecast locomotive can bare just as much detailing as a brass model AND it doesn't break apart when you handle it. I definitely prefer diecast now over brass.

[@scarlettmoon3714]

Have you ever thought about trying a commodore Vanderbilt 4-6-4 New York Central System?

[@Ericstrains]

Yes!

[@GoldStandardTrains]

This will be a future high dollar collectable due to its high initial price tag and low production numbers for sure . I have a feeling Lionel is having a hard time getting these to pre-order. Its a nice engine, but for the price I think it isn't offering enough. To those who did pre-order, I hope it fulfills your expectations and then some. Smart of Lionel to send this out for Eric to review to try to get some extra hype for it. Hope it works, always cheering for Lionel and their success. Need them to stay profitable.

[@Aftermath779]

You know this situation reminds me of another brass hybrid locomotive. But it didn't make into production sadly.

[@GoldStandardTrains]

@@Aftermath779 yea didn’t that happen to the N&W K’s ??

[@Aftermath779]

@@GoldStandardTrains Yep. It was a shame that the K Class didn't see production.

[@GoldStandardTrains]

@@Aftermath779 I just think that the K engine didn’t merit brass hybrid pricing and manufacturing. I get brass hybrid make it possible to do one off offerings, but you have to pay a lot for not getting much with certain engines. Isn’t much detail on a stream lined steam loco to enjoy the brass part of brass hybrid.

[@Aftermath779]

@@GoldStandardTrains That's true

[@fernandosantiagorodrigueze2655]

Ojalá se pudiese construir una réplica a escala real de esta máquina

[@mrmrb04]

Sick for a week or playing with the model for a week 😉😉😉

[@Adamdaj]

I might have asked this before, but did Lionel or Atlas come out the Baldwin # 60000? The reason is, I would bet a model would more run time than the prototype. Baldwin # 60000 has been on exhibit at the Ben Franklyn Museum in Philadelphia Pennsylvania since the 1930s or 1940s. According to my knowledge, Number 60000 was an experimental locomotive that only operated on a test run and then donated to the museum.

[@rayhankazianga6817]

AFIAK there's not a baldwin #60000 in O which is a shame, it'd be a very nice and unique model

[@joshuajordan8574]

One of the crew on the startup sound effects sounds just like Butthead. I'm not sure if that is a good idea after seeing him try to flip burgers.

[@johnhartz21779]

"FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!" says fireman Bevis. 🚂 🔥

[@jsshorts7100]

Imaculate👌

[@deweyhall712]

Welcome to the home of BIG STEAM, and no mini me..

[@baxter3998]

I thought if you didnt already pre-order from Lionel that it might be more difficult to get want you want later.

[@Ericstrains]

If you contact a dealer they might be able to get in some extra orders.

[@baxter3998]

@@Ericstrains Of course Legacy Station! You have an ace in the hole.

[@yamyas2141]

Question: Does Lionel Legacy locomotives come with the legacy controller?

[@Ericstrains]

No. But you can run the locomotive using your smartphone.

[@yamyas2141]

@@Ericstrains Ok

[@Cursedlophobia]

Do you plan on installing the base3 on your layout?

[@Ericstrains]

Yes

[@Cursedlophobia]

Cool! I would like to see that.

[@deweyhall712]

You can never have enough BIG STEAM.

[@Ericstrains]

This is true!

[@anthonycoach4551]

I like the silver and black better I liked the red stripe and yellow and brown one too..you forgot to mention what are they going to cost when there out...

[@aaronspringborn34]

Interesting

[@Ericstrains]

He’s back!

[@mikespurg8006]

👌 nice

[@ianbrown5928]

I love o scale

[@davidjohnfarrell4579]

Hi. Why do American railroads have 3 rail ? When the prototype has 2. Here in the U.K we stopped using 3 rail in the late 1950's. All UK railways now run 2 rail. I just wondered that's all. Cheers

[@Ericstrains]

It's a long story, but in a word: tradition

[@Ace_6.7]

I love less made models like this hopefully we get something cool like a Q1 or a triplex brass hybrid at some point. Unfortunately until lionel makes too many 4014 big boys we won’t see that more than likely.

[@michaelellison]

No way new Union Pacific steam engine?

[@Fleetwoodjohn]

Get that damn piece of tape off there! It’s gonna stick! Prototype or not 😄

[@felixthetrainfan4819]

I can tell the CSA is smaller then the heavy challenger, I believe it has to do with inches

[@09JDCTrainMan]

Other than appearance and weight, other differences include a lower boiler pressure of 255 psi and a slightly larger cylinder bore of 22".

[@riccardogatti4038]

mitica locomotiva ha carbone challenger!!???

[@daivdwalker2374]

How much you think this cool looking engine going 2 cost? Roughly

[@dalediethorn1481]

Put me down 4 one.

[@huntercoleman460]

Eric that looks more like a Bull Moose than a Challenger. Maybe Lionel didn’t pay attention to the front of the engine.

[@PereMarquette1223]

The earlier classes of challenger have a very different front end. If you look at photos of the prototype you will see it. The later challengers were modeled style wise after the big boys.

[@rayhankazianga6817]

the earlier challengers (I.e, the ones that this one is supposed to represent) had a front that resembled a bull moose. The heavy challengers (4664-3, 4664-4, 4664-5) are the ones you are thinking of.

[@huntercoleman460]

@@rayhankazianga6817 Right of Way Industries made a Bull Moose and the front looks a lot like it. Thanks for the information.

[@Challenger3985Productions]

I have a Broadway limited imports early challenger its not an engineering prototype it belongs to me

[@john2914]

Well, I hope someone is able to profit from all the crap that you have? Whomever you leave this mess to, may be able to sell some of it for some money? Maybe?