Essential PA System Tuning

[@realbingus]

Hey, thanks for making this video! Personally I prefer to use REW (Free) with the UMIK-1 measurement mic. I should mention I like to use the Moving Microphone Method (MMM), which prevents you from having a single sweet spot in the room while the rest sounds off. There are guides online on which settings to use with REW for this method. This guide assumes the crossover has been configured correctly. If not, there are guides online. It also assumes you know how to configure your measurement microphone and output in REW. Start by setting the volume correctly. First, turn all the amplifiers down. Next, turn your subwoofer amplifier off. Now open the Generator in REW. Select the “Pink Periodic” noise type. Set it at -12dBFS. I use Full Range because the crossover takes care of the rest. Now press the green arrow (Play) button. Open the SPL meter in REW, and use: SPL, C, S. Start measuring the SPL by pressing the red record button. Increase the level of the speaker amplifier until it reaches the desired volume (e.g. 75dB RMS or 85dB RMS). Now turn the speaker amplifier off, and the subwoofer amplifier on. Reset the SPL meter. Increase the level of your subwoofer amplifier until it reaches the desired volume level (75dB or 85dB RMS). Now turn your speaker amplifier(s) on, and you’ll be ready to take some actual measurements! With the Moving Microphone Method you use the RTA in REW with specific settings. Those settings can be found online. After you have taken your measurements you can import a house EQ curve, like the Harman (Kardon) In-Room target. This is just a text file you can find online. Then you can use the AutoEQ feature to select the target level, how many PEQ/High Shelf/Low Shelf bands you have available, the frequency range to apply EQ to, etc. This could be an entire guide on its own, so I recommend looking for online guides. Last step is to apply the EQ settings, re-measure, listen to your favourite song, and make sure everything measures and sounds right. God bless you all!

[@krissjun3470]

The issue is that the EQ settings should account for the occupancy of the venue. The acoustics differ significantly between an empty space and one filled with people. When you tune your PA system in an empty venue, it may sound good initially, but as the venue fills up, the sound quality often deteriorates. This happens because the initial measurements were taken in an empty space, which doesn't accurately reflect the conditions when the venue is full.

[@Dxcter_C0rgi207]

yea thats true, how would we tackle that?

[@Dxcter_C0rgi207]

@@DW_drums thankyou so much, such a detailed response. It did indeed work I have now pointed my spekers down a bit since they were wall mounted but flat against the top of the wall.

[@marcuspainter6861]

Dual channel analysers like SMAART can measure during a live show. Does anyone do this?

[@JoshuaStormmusic]

This is very important.

[@Creator_Veeto_PAEACP]

Thats easy, just add wide boosts to the range that the audience is absorbing. Ringing out your PA will also change with temperature, humidity, and the acoustics but that’s something you got to deal with on the fly regardless.

[@ywli214]

多謝！

[@gusvonpiep7100]

Thank you very much! your videos have been helping me a lot. im an learning event technician and I want to dive into the system engineering. your videos really helped me to get into the topic of PA tuning an measuring. Today was my first measurement: my new sound system in my living room. Great exercise!

[@Ricks_Audio_Visual]

This is the best video I’ve seen yet on time alignment!! Cheers from AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺

[@OffshoreAudio]

Aw you're too kind! Cheers!

[@TheMilosDjuric]

I think there is a reason why the SMART is showing the phase reading topmost. If you adjust the eq without doing delay compensation first, your reading might be way off due to interference between multiple speakers. It's like miking a drum kit, first place the mics and make sure the phases are right, then get the eq sorted, otherwise you might be eq-ing the phase issues. Align time first, then eq multiple source systems.

[@slitz4581]

I’ve been looking for a video on how to tune a system I’ve read books this by far is the best thing I’ve ever found for mixing a system

[@jono_young]

It really is a fantastic piece of internet this! 👌

[@OffshoreAudio]

Aw thank you so much. This means a lot ❤️

[@bradlucid]

Great video! very easy to follow through and well explained. Thank you for this.

[@Lloyd33]

@21:50 Most epic description of pink noise phase interference EVER.

[@LIKEFUNK]

I'm more old school personally, the volume of the main foh is the benchmark to my way of sorting any venue, it is after all where the main action is focussed when the house has bums on seats, the 3 frequencies indeed do travel at their natural speeds so a simple adjustment to the frequency of each usually realigns any obvious latency issues, the science often gets in the way of the art too much these days and tends to make the process cluttered in my opinion, we use our foh only at room set intention and when it's kicking well in the main audience zone we then during our sound check slowly introduce our side fill and floor stage monitors to come into phase only with the foh from our stage listening as the players first, lots of players sound crap on stage to please the sound guy mainly, both are winners when the foh main is set correctly first, the fills elsewhere around the room if needed are only like monitors for the audience and not considered as able to replicate the main thrust of foh. The drums if conventional are the usual phase-setter and the amps by guitar/bass/keyboard etc are not set higher than the already noisey drummer and when it's right on stage for the players first, it's going to be easier for it to be replicated in the p.a. and stage monitors and audience fills if any are required to match, the mixer if right on foh it can supply a copy to the monitors and it's less fluffing around, the process works in reverse too if required by letting the players get themselves great on stage first then sorting the foh next the monitors next...room fills can be included if needed when those 3 are in phase effortlessly.

[@keepinghe4235]

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[@mica4153]

This video made everything I’ve been trying to learn clear to me. Trying to do all of this has just been a mess of things messing with each other and has seemed like a dark art until now.

[@OffshoreAudio]

Well I'm very glad that I could help you along in your journey! I'm very happy it's starting to make sense :)

[@hollywoodthedj1673]

@@OffshoreAudioall of this is new to me well doing it the right way anyways but yeah this is very technical and it’s going to take me a while to lean all of this!

[@wesleyjeanpierre5856]

You can also use a driverack pa2 which has a room eq option..

[@davormaric4354]

Hey, can you try to cover some advanced topics such as: - Time aligning subs with mains with different crossover regions (ex. subs at 100hz, mains at 60hz). When to have different crossover regions and how to do it, especially when it comes to speakers being in time, but not in phase - Handling issues with low coherence due to room acoustics - Taking a trace on a windy day - Microphone position tricks such as measurement mic on the ground, and measurement mic at 45 deg - Handling reflections - Working with multiple microphones and how to use average - High shading

[@gregorykusiak5424]

Another great video: keeping it simple keeps it clear!

[@OffshoreAudio]

Thanks. That's exactly what I was going for!

[@TylerMarletteNY]

rule #1 use your ears not your eyes I see so many people doing things like subs L-R of stage and then wondering why there are power alleys and valleys. speakers are not lights

[@tomazklancnik7760]

I agree, but sometimes you have to do LR placement of subs, because of client or artist (don't want subs in center or it's not possible to put subs in center), it depends. It's great video.

[@TylerMarletteNY]

@@tomazklancnik7760 yeah I’m talking about the people that preferred to set up their subs left right because it looks like it’s the most even coverage

[@jaken528]

@@tomazklancnik7760 I'd rather put them together on one side or the other.. sounds cleaner

[@xhinggaming]

Center sub is to prevent power alleys and valleys.

[@TylerMarletteNY]

@@jaken528 I’ve been doing that lately you get so much more output on top of getting rid of the dead spots

[@AWdioWaveProductions]

This was so incredibly helpful! Thank you soooooooo much!

[@OffshoreAudio]

Happy to hear that. Thank you!

[@DiogoCocharro]

22:07 I believe there's s mistake here ("apply delay to mains first"), or creates confusion IMO. One doesn't need to apply delay to the mains, unless one is tuning the array of doing some sort of beam steering, and this stuff is often performed in the system processor. If that's the case then yes, correct. But for the purpose of alignment, mains are most of the times the point of reference, because most of the times subs and front fills are nearer to the audience, so those are the ones who need to have delay applied. Correct me if I'm wrong? If we are talking about flown subs then the conversation changes. Cool video, thanks 👍🏻

[@OffshoreAudio]

You're very correct about about the mains being your point of alignment. However I said apply Delay compensation to the measurement with your main before turning on the fills. I can see how that's confusing. To set the record straight, that's applying delay to the measurement within smart to account for the travel time from the mains to the mic.

[@DiogoCocharro]

​@@OffshoreAudio yes that's makes more sense. The measurement and the reference signals should be synced to the mains. My bad, I'm not a English native speaker. 🤦🏻

[@OffshoreAudio]

@@DiogoCocharro no worries! it is confusing. it's a complicated topic and difficult to make it straightforward

[@morten1317]

Hello and thanks for the video.😊 I have a question about the monitor. How little / how much time do you spend tuning monitors? Thanks in advance for your help and for sharing your knowledge🙏 🤓

[@poxcr]

Is this video assuming the PA is operating in mono? Not sure I am fully understanding how the "giving each speaker custody of an area" concept would apply for a stereo system.

[@TheGuracao]

It isn't ^^ The "giving each speaker custody of an area" helps to get as close to even coverage over the whole frequency spectrum on every listening position. If mono sound is played on the system it should sound more or less the same regardless of where the listener is exactly. With Stereo it should sound more or less the same, as long as you move front to back of the room. Going side by side would sound more or less the same as moving side to side in front of a normal stereo system with just 2 speakers.

[@modellking]

All important signals should be straight down center, just alternate left and right between speakers to have the highest stereo width at any point and align the front to back lefts and rights as far as possible

[@delsurmusic]

Thanks for recommending the book. I looks very interesting!

[@not0evn]

Awesome video, great information. Thank you!!

[@JerryAulenbach]

The way you moved that mic stand at 18:19 made me nervous. I was waiting for the cable to get caught and the mic to crash down on the floor.

[@lhenn_]

Great video, but shouldn’t time/phase alignment come prior to EQ’ing to the target curve? For example: The bump in low end you just equalized could be due to the speakers misaligned. Fixing the alignment could result in a double increase/decrease of the level. Plus: Crossover points change with level and thus with EQ. Sure, you can only align the whole system at one listening point, but at least you can make sure it's properly aligned >somewhere.

[@marcuspainter6861]

I would agree. Changing the time alignment can affect the summation in the main/sub crossover region.

[@mattcowens]

Great video - thanks brother!

[@martotarto9581]

i see you use a sonarworks mic, do you use a calibration file and wich one you put 0, 30 or 90 degree?

[@LIKEFUNK]

It's a basic process of 'triangulate' to find the optimum listening point to set any p.a. from or for the rest of the space, anything added beyond such is only replication of the ideal listening point which is the same distance directly in front of the p.a. enclosures being apart as foh. ...anything else is mere replication intent or additional monitors or 'fills' as you've referred to them as.

[@Fernando-ry5qt]

well, this quickly got out of my domains hahaha, I went from "oooh, cool idea" to "wth is going on" in 5 min Need to do a lot of research...

[@OffshoreAudio]

Ah I'm sorry I lost you! Where did you drop off? I can focus on making that part more clear in the future.

[@Fernando-ry5qt]

@@OffshoreAudio Once we started talking about SMAART and delay compensation on the transfer function signal and.... I have never seen any of that at all haha. But this is my first approach to tuning PA systems so I might have been just attempting to swallow more than I can take for now.

[@Skakid789]

Very very well done!

[@OffshoreAudio]

Thank you!

[@Wall_Schall]

Hi, thanks for your Video! It really made some things clear and helped me to understand the process :) However, I have a question: Are you doing the same to your Monitors at FOH so the sound you hear when mixing is the approximate sound in front of the Stage?

[@OffshoreAudio]

Hey, do you mean like near field monitors? I've never been in a position where I've had them or felt I needed them but yeah I'd like the response to match the rest of the system

[@nickmazzoleni6378]

What was the book he mentioned?

[@leckomio8812]

The slowest impulse device is time reference. Especially if you use horns subs. Delay the the tops and not vise verse. Weird way of working here...

[@DbiPro]

Can you do a short video on eq for the subs. I see what you said but I’m still not there

[@Edwin-van-der-Putten]

very helpfull! Thanks!!

[@racedrummer1]

Thank you for this amazing video! Great Tutorial! This is pure gold ❤

[@OffshoreAudio]

You're so welcome! Very glad to hear it's helpful

[@pauljosse]

what if you are in a very narrow room?

[@imdomtrotta]

@16:45 did you measure Top and Sub together ?

[@OffshoreAudio]

Yeah. You can see the measurement change when I turn the sub on.

[@VicMorrowind]

i tunes up my pa. put in new plugs, points, and condenser. rotor and cap too.

[@jono_young]

This is an area I have struggled to get my head around. I kinda get it, but this really made the penny drop! Thanks dude 🤘🔊🔊

[@OffshoreAudio]

So glad it was helpful. It's definitely a complex topic so if I can help you on your way then I'm happy

[@Introverted_Walrus]

It would've been good to get more information about system tuning when you're not using fills. I know you've got other videos that focus more on standard LR systems, so maybe just rename this video to highlight the difference? Great video though!

[@izzzzzz6]

You remove the highs from the delay speakers (shelving) to give the impression the sound is coming from the main speakers ie the stage.

[@OffshoreAudio]

I wouldn't recommend this, if anything I'd say do the opposite. We lose high frequencies disproportionately to low frequencies over distance. If you remove the highs from the delays then you're removing the purpose of the delays, which is to restore the frequency response and level to our target curve or within 6db of it. If you find people are localising the source to the delay speakers, Use a little more delay and thus the precedence effect to make people localise the sound to the stage while maintaining your desired level and tonality

[@hussyprojects1609]

OK, wouldn’t the dynamics of the microphone being used as your tuning microphone have a difference response compared to another microphone giving a fake audio intake being played. For example I may have a microphone with lows completely low cut (I’m being extreme using that as an example) the microphone will be giving me a a very small intake. Our a microphone with a higher cut. This would cause you to boost that frequency to get it to tune the rooms.

[@OffshoreAudio]

Do you mean the frequency response of the microphone? As in a mic with a very uneven frequency response or that doesn't capture lows properly. The answer is yes, it will affect your reading, which is why you should use a measurement mic not just an sm57 for example. But more importantly it's why you need to use your ears to verify everything. Always trust your ears.

[@hussyprojects1609]

@ thanks for confirming.

[@MatthewBarelick]

What microphones and software are you using to set your eq level?

[@metanoiax2130]

Let me ask, why do I have to get the measurement of the on-axis and further back the intended listening area? Is the measurement in the intended listening area not enough? Also can I just measure with the sub already on? Please answer thanks!

[@OffshoreAudio]

To ensure the whole listening area is consistent. I explain at 16:00 - 16:30 in the video

[@Honaiahak]

In the target trace part you clam that human hate flat system, is there a evdience? Because in contrary in most of Floyd Tooles paper mentions that anechoic flat system were prefered across both normal and trained listeners.

[@marcuspainter6861]

In his paper, The Measurement and Calibration of Sound Reproducing Systems, he quotes a study where listeners were allowed to EQ a flat system to their preference. Untrained listeners prefer more bass and more treble. Trained listeners preferred slightly more bass but a reduction in treble. See Figure 14 p 528. www.linkwitzlab.com/Toole-Room%20calibration.pdf

[@Honaiahak]

@@marcuspainter6861 We are actually quoting the same paper. I thought the point of Figure 14 is to tell you that trained listener have a preference that is very close to a anechoic flat frequency response speaker which is written in 4.1 section. Untrained one just want more of everything which is maybe just volume. And so for a room with controled acoustics the right answer is maybe flat. When using smaart we have the choice of complex averaging which is not steady state measurement, it rejects everything outside of the window and thus can be closer to anechoic measurement. I use +12dB Sub as a default too, but I use group send matrix instead of LR send and take that as a compromise for gain structure.

[@marcuspainter6861]

@@Honaiahak It could be that untrained listeners just prefer louder. Louder does tend to sound better, but it is also is similar to Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curve, meaning that untrained listeners may prefer perceptively flat. Are they compensating for the ear's natural unflat sensitivity? Maybe a coincidence.

[@Honaiahak]

@@marcuspainter6861 That’s the point, so people like anechoic flat. For an outdoor gig with no acoustics, why not tune it flat?

[@StereoAnthony]

Very interesting stuff folks, and thank you for sharing all that. I wasn't going to say anything, but I'll chime in on the idea of flat/not flat speakers. I guess I'll call myself a hobbyist with an enormous passion for sound, but I've discovered I much prefer a flat as possible starting point for a mix. As I keep learning, I recently discovered this sort of standardized eq curve ( I thought it was from Bob McCarthy, but can't find it) which is apparently how an L'Acoustics or D&B rigs are tuned. The idea of 12-15db boost in the low end, and a roll of in the high end just sounds insane to me. I've come from a studio background, and I've come to understand people like me have this sort of opinion about that. The idea of flat speakers was one of many selling points to me that led me to start investing in Meyer Sound speakers this year. They sound astonishing right out of the box, and sometimes end up only using 1 eq adjustment. IMO having a flat system to start with helps to eliminate problem areas in a room much faster then battling a speaker in a room that has been tuned to "sound good". Anyways, very interesting (and nerdy!) stuff, which will continue to be thoroughly enjoyable to learn more about.

[@MatuOfficialTV]

What if for time alignment, you measure the distance from any speaker, to the main PA? Then calculate the delay and apply it on the mixer? Isn't that simpler than using Smart?

[@josh88745]

i’m pretty sure this is what he was saying

[@OffshoreAudio]

You could, but then you're making assumptions about variables that affect the result like temperature and humidity. If you measure using smaart then you're measuring the real world result and aligning actual arrival times. I have done it with a laser measure and ultimately you can do whatever you like. You can do it totally by ear if you want, it'll just be less accurate and less consistent.

[@MatuOfficialTV]

@@OffshoreAudio I understand. Thx a lot.

[@MatuOfficialTV]

@@josh88745 I don't think so. Calculating the delay is distance over spead of sound in air. And most consoles you just input the distance. Hence me saying it's simpler🤷

[@Tmp205]

If the right mic, is in the right place, with the right desk and correct speakers, is eq necessary? 🧐

[@slofty]

There is no "right" in audio. Everything is a compromise. There is no answer to your question because what you are asking about doesn't exist.

[@TheGuracao]

Pink noise helps tuning the system to a flat base level from the systems perspective. We dont perceive sound that linear and as far as I understand it (but I may be wrong with that) thats where EQ comes into play. Google "Equal loudness contours" ^^ This should help to get a good base EQ setting that can then be tweaked to your liking without having to do it from scratch, even though that would also be an option. I assume somebody who is more experienced it's probably faster just doing it from scratch, but for me personally it is easier to get it to sound good to my ears with such a base EQ.

[@TheDrfireball]

What’s your view on tools like the dBx drive rack for smaller systems - small band, up to 400 people type gigs?

[@noahman27]

Greetings from Boston Massachusetts USA! What a great tutorial. That helped me understand a bunch of things in a clear way. (No pun intended). Btw, is that a Scottish accent??? Whatever it is, I love it!

[@OffshoreAudio]

Thank you so much! So happy to hear this. And yes! No one ever guesses the accent correctly hahaha 😁

[@djsergiubulgar4922]

👌

[@kristopherdetar4346]

Make sure the volume is up so much that people’s ear are destroyed. All this technology and yet all venues sound as shitty as they did in a local dive bar back in the 1970’s.

[@brandonabney4863]

I halve way agree with you.. if by “Most Venues” you are talking about local clubs and bars in your average town. And that is because such places either have not invested in “all that technology”, have done it improperly, or don’t have anyone skilled running there systems. In fact, the problem is not completely issolated to small venues. As my closest arena that hosts major artist usually sounds terrible as well, & it’s for the previously stated issue of outdated gear. I honestly thought the EXACT SAME as you until a couple months ago. Had been years since I had been to a large scale festival. Went to Bonnaroo’…, !!!! MIND CHANGED FOREVER !!!! I never thought a show could sound like that. Every show sounded pretty amazing from all listening positions . But Particularly the artist my daughter was there to see (Melonie Martinez). 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 If anyone reading this had ANYTHING to do with that show, THANK YOU & CONGRADULATIONS!!! Most breathtaking sound i have ever experienced in my life. The bass felt as if it was lifting you off the ground and suspending you 10” off the ground with every long hard hit!!!! For reference, I am a career musician of 20+ years and run a little local recording studio. If anyone believes that PA sound has not changed DRAMATICALLY in the last decade,(let alone 4), I challenge you to make it to a major outdoor festival event & see just how far we have come lately. It will AMAZE!!

[@guitarz99]

Tuning a tiny sound system with underpowered low quality speakers on a stick is kind of pointless lol

[@luizdutra-t3m]

crosslite> smart

[@edmakesmelaugh]

9 minutes of one sentence

[@darrenlawrence7759]

Lord I would love to listen to all words you are saying. But you keep fading off at the end of certain sentences to no volume. 😡

[@Josh-ri7hy]

System tuning is overrated

[@lhenn_]

Simply not true… Ever worked on a large-scale festival with multiple hangs, fills and audience zones? Tell the system techs to do it without proper simulation and tuning. There is a reason, today’s festivals are bigger and offer a better listening experience. It all comes down to the development of measurement tools and software, too.

[@conorm2524]

​@lhenn_ To add to your comment - since I began methodically tuning systems from venue to venue my mixes have become a million times more consistent. And you can really hear the differing responses of each PA manufacturer.