Great chat! I definitely agree that the people side is so important, but I think as technology becomes more crucial and complex (it is not getting simpler, no matter how much AI wash we throw at it...) digital leads will either need to be very tech savvy or at least capable of managing those who are in a way that leads to good outcomes. Digital strategy can't just be lip service, it's a house of cards if so I think. I've noticed a concerning trend at firms these days where a lot of digital leads are very low in tech literacy, and don't seem to have foundational understanding of how the tech works, hiding behind what I think is a partial fallacy of it not being about technology (it certainly is, at least dependently). Very non-bus proofed, and very high risk in a competitive industry that often doesn't renumerate those properly until they find out and bounce elsewhere. I could relate to all the challenges and concepts discussed here, and it's a very valuable discussion for the industry. Whilst some of what I say above is probably at odds with it, but it's refreshing versus many leads I also meet that completely miss the social aspect of their role. Fine/difficult balance! Fun term I use if anyone finds it useful RE innovation that isn't actually innovation - 'spin'novation. Also one I thought up when listening, 'talk to your team, before you talk to Revit'.