Euphoria vs. 13 Reasons Why: The Romanticization of Mental Anguish

[@reneemujica142]

I hate the idea of people saying Van Gogh created beautiful art because of his psychosis insteas of the fact that he painted many paintings everyday and despite being surrounded by the sadness in the world and in his own mind, he saw beautiful colors in the world that held no love for him. He wasn't a genius because of his psychosis. He was a genius because he had a passion for painting that almost no other artists at the time could compare to.

[@gergelyberenyi3522]

beautifully said

[@marthafleetwoodbradshaw2968]

omg bro im a senior and i literally wrote my personal statement for college ab that

[@truereligionfiend738]

Dr who says this brilliantly

[@guerreroart3255]

@@truereligionfiend738 he actually did all those things. He even had a roommate. It’s not like he “just sat there”. He just knew when to sit there and when to go out

[@spiritualsnail1584]

Also these people don't know his life well. During his psychotic trances, he (obviously) could't paint. He didn't paint when he was sick ; he painted when he felt good enough, when he could summon his will to see beauty in his world and represent it.

[@danidkg4071]

Euphoria does a really good job of portraying the glamourised teenage fantasy, and then flipping it on its head and showing the grim reality for many people

[@jessicasbalchiero7048]

yeah that's what i thought!

[@oliviamichelin4246]

Euphoria is good at that yes, I won’t debate that, I can however tell you that euphoria still somewhat romanticizes the effects of addiction, Rue seems fine when she starts to get sober, and because of the other characters storylines the full struggle that she experiences is lost. It also somewhat perpetuates the idea that a person can save you from your addictions, which is extremely toxic, up until the special episodes Rue and Jules’ relationship is really romanticized. And when looking at the pretty lighting and makeup, it makes addiction seem cool, and easy, and something that can only happen at a party and then continue. The only time it felt real was when Rue was depicted as an actual addict and not just as a lost teenager in search of an unnatural high. Yes they flip it on it’s head, but is it too little too late?

[@joethejanitor845]

@@oliviamichelin4246 I see what you're saying but I feel like i was aware that the show was wary/discouraging in they're portrayal of Rue and Jules - specifically Rues codependency. I can recall one conversation in season 1 when Ali tells Rue that her sobriety shouldn't be dependent on one person. Furthermore I do think that Rues fixation on Jules is discouraged- like every instance of her codependency is met with consequence. Rue obsessing over Jules while they aren't talking (the manic episode) ends with a bladder infection, when she wants Fezco to help her threaten Nate - almost relapses, tries to be the person Jules wants her to be, Jules leaves she relapses. A major critique of the show has been the fact that it glamourizes its sensitive subject matter - like you said with the pretty lights, the makeup the costumes etc. but I think it elevates the show and makes it stand out. There are so many shows that are dark, gritty and 'realistic' in their portrayals of addiction , mental illness, abuse because that's where we expect bad things to happen - in ugly places. And i don't think that's always the case, this depravity (if i can use that word) is just as likely to occur among the twinkling lights of Hollywood or the aesthetic citadels of Europe. And we should be able to recognize mental illness and cries for help in the prettiest off settings not just the ugly ones.

[@titusbunce6031]

@@joethejanitor845 I can honestly somewhat agree, but here's the thing about the last point about how you commented on the previous argument, of how the lights and costumes and aesthetic may elevate the show and make it stand out. To me that sounds like a argumental crutch. Insects are attracted to light. The whole aesthetic I believe is used to seduce the viewer towards a self destructive fantasy. The show does idolize Rue as a metaphorical moral compass, I mean come on, you are totally right in the sense that anyone from any class can be addicts and have mental problems, when was the last time you saw a character like McKay, or Nate, or bless her soul Cassie have the addiction? Rue is painted as the wise black lady trope masked with mental illness and addiction. Drugs wire your brain differently, and someone with prolonged drug use, wouldn't be hard to hear or see the effects. While I do heavily agree on your point how addiction can happen anywhere, addiction is still DARK AND GRITTY AND REAL, it may feel fantastical but it's not. Scotland is a beautiful country snd heroin is still and ugly substance. And I'm no doctor but I sense a medical fallacy when it come to how Rue got addicted in the first place. And them again the show is marketed towards a younger audience, and knowing how young folks are, they are easily impressionable, if you can make it look cool they are going to wanna do it, and that my main problem with Euphoria. I think it would've had a much bigger impact if they told the story through the people she affected by her drug use, ie her sister, mom, Lexi, Jules etc. Because when you are an addict those are the ones who go through it too. The dialogue in the show was also juvenile and not at all complex as to what drug addiction really is and does to you. It was more on the spectacle (I'm sure I spelt that wrong), which in definition is supposed to be eye catching. It's also hollywood, when is money not an agenda for them? Of course they wanna make it look entertaining and all that rubbish, they want the freaking money. If you want a show that entertains you and also validates you go right ahead, but there are other pieces of art that are made to really make you think more objectively. One last small critique in the shows character of Rue. In the episode where she is watching that reality show and explains that she like stop watch shows that "don't feel like work". A contradiction is made when she references characters from the show The Wire, which is an extremely complex show and is extremely dense and realistic and long. I doubt with all my heart that Rue would take the time to watch that show with everything going in her life and being a naive 16 year old, give me a friggin break

[@cynthiaanderson6410]

@@oliviamichelin4246 i actually think that Rue getting better because of Jules shows why you shouldn’t base your recovery entirely on someone else. Jules leaves and Rue spirals because she was getting better for Jules not herself.

[@canvas_125]

The irony is that when I see real mental health problems portrayed accurately, people will hate THAT character and label them as crazy or a jerk. People think they understand until they see how it really is and they badly stigmatize it.

[@user-tf2rx5kn8l]

Oh my god yes! If the character isn't kinder and more understanding because of their suffering but, in fact, meaner or less nice to be around, the viewers will hate them...

[@davidegaruti2582]

@@user-tf2rx5kn8l omg , i heard a quote from a holocaust survivor in israel talking about the oppression they are doing to the palestinians , basically his argument boiled down to " what do you think there was to learn from the holocaust ? we only learned brutality there ." and it's genuinely the exact same thing : mental illness/disease/suffering/brutality doesn't teach anything to anyone , love teaches , work teaches . all these things are necessary in those conditions and so thats why we learn from "those things" .

[@grayciii2554]

yes!! the whole point is that that person is mentally ill and often unstable and sometimes it’s not going to look pretty

[@tardybloomer]

i see where you're coming from tbh. look at Bojack Horseman, one of the most beloved shows on Netflix because of its accurate representationa of mental health illnesses. The audience builds a sort of love/hate relationship w the main character who does a lot of these shitty things that stem from his mental illness. A lot of other characters as well portray some negative "traits" simply because they're suffering from something that can't really be seen or controlled. the tolerance people have for others is either really low or nonexistent. no one wants to deal with people lashing out or acting a certain way that they can't explain, which is why they just label them as crazy, or a jerk. it's a complex issue that not many understand unless they're going through it, have been through it, or are very close to someone who's going through it. and as someone who does suffer from it, there are more ugly sides to it than people think.

[@Cliohna]

This. Your comment reminds me so much of Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House and its main character Eleanor. I listened to the audiobook on KZbin and after finishing it reading comments and so many said the book is one of the greats, only Eleanor is just such a weak, unlikable b*tch (paraphrasing), missing one of, if not the most important point of the whole book. 🤦‍♀️ So frustrating, but a perfect exemplification why this book was and still is so important, these comments make the point for the book, if you are able and willing to listen.

[@StrunDoNhor]

One standout episode of BoJack Horseman, titled "Good Damage", had a very sobering take on this: that sometimes, your suffering has no meaning or value. It does not teach lessons or build character. In fact, needing your suffering to "mean something" could be what is stopping you from moving forward with your life.

[@emclaire7027]

One of my favorite episodes of Bojack. I'd always related a lot to Diane and that episode just broke me (in a good way lol). That show was so fucking good.

[@crazydragy4233]

The best part is that this lesson applies to everyone

[@ray-wg7bg]

exactly. people don’t grow because of their trauma, they grow in spite of it.

[@jackriver8385]

That scene specifically really helped me put things in perspective. All of the hurt was for nothing, I don't need to waste my time and energy finding meaning behind it. It just is. I can use all that time and energy to actually try and enjoy life after trauma

[@BinaBinaBee]

This gave me chills

[@nikerboker1995]

"Pain doesn't make people, it's love that makes people. The pain is inconsequential. It's love that saves them." -a tall pink cowman

[@GabesEdtiz]

Well said 👏

[@thomaschapman9112]

An educated person I see 🧐😁

[@diyagore1784]

Ah yes, our aroace god

[@fauxflame5309]

Caduceus from critical role?

[@deucedead5089]

It's always nice to see CR references in other media

[@chiiborg]

I hate 13 reasons why because it makes it look as if suicide is a revenge plot to get back at the "cruel society" not how suicide really is. Suicide is nver a revenge plot, its an escape.

[@IDCThrowAway]

I don’t know I didn’t see it that way, I saw the suicide as her escape & the tapes were to make sure the people who drove her there knew the impact they had on her. Again the suicide wasn’t to spite them it was to escape the pain & the tapes were to hold the people who drove here there without any regard for her accountable

[@lynnthomas8457]

While I agree with this point for the *vast* majority of suicides, there is a mental disorder called "borderline personality disorder," and some people with it will either threaten or attempt suicide as a tactic to keep people from leaving them. Sometimes these superficial attempts will go through. It's somthing to be aware of, at the very least.

[@IDCThrowAway]

@@lynnthomas8457 oh yeah those people usually aren’t serious & it’s just usually a manipulative tactic which is sick bit a small amount of people will follow through

[@t.lo90--93]

it was an escape, this is only your interpreatation

[@doyouknowdawae6660]

I agree but i cant stop laughing when i see your profile picture cosidering the context

[@rainbowdemon5033]

Every time I get confronted with that stupid "ooh this person killed themselves and now everyone regrets their decisions and turns their own life around" plot I think back to a class where a teacher told us about cyber-bullying depression and suicide. It was about a girl who made a video before her death, holding up cards explaining her life. And the Teacher showed us not only the video, but afterwards how people reacted to her suicide on her facebook page. All the people that bullied that girl, they didn't suddenly turn around, they had no epiphany, they just piled on the facebook page of a dead person and talked about how happy they are that she finally died. How the only tragedy there was that her previous attempts didn't work out.

[@kami-ws5yf]

Amanda Todd.

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

God I remember that. If I recall correctly the girl sent a video of her touching herself to a guy who shared it around online and that was for some reason reason she didn't deserve empathy? People are messed up.

[@TheIceYvetal]

Based

[@Datura981]

Yeah, I hate that sort of plot for the same reason. People don't recant when they realize the damage they're doing if damage was the intent in the first place. Realized that in 7th grade when my parents were going through a nasty divorce and my favorite teacher at the time told the entire class one day when I wasn't in school to lay off of picking on me because, quote, "her family is coming apart, have some compassion." Did not ever look that teacher in the eyes again. I'm sure he meant well but those kids nearly drove me to suicide so many times that year. Those same kids remained shitbags through HS, too.

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

Happy 666 HAIL SATAN!

[@slacks8817]

A show about an animated horse that was in a sitcom show in the 90s is sadder than a live action show trying its best to be depressing

[@crazydragy4233]

Is it really trying though? is it??

[@slacks8817]

@@crazydragy4233 yes

[@crazydragy4233]

@@slacks8817 I meant the trying part xd. I find it hard to believe they were. I mean spectacular fuck ups are possible but... it just doesn't seem possible to actually try and fail so miserably.

[@Unhappytimeaper]

Honestly I think a major part is expectations that visually come with live media. This isn’t that Bo Jack has bad art and is stylistically very unique which does a wonderful job at portraying the reality of the characters/world but with live action there is an intense focus on visual. You hire conventionally attractive adults (not teens), you make them look beautiful even at their lowest, you have expectations for beautiful cinematography/design. Even if it doesn’t seek to romanticize something or even if it’s seeking to portray a tragic scene everything still feels manufactured for beauty. When viewing animation, even more if it’s a much unconventional art style there has to be much more heart from voice actors and animators to reach the levels to connect with audiences, often ripping away some of those cleaner layers that live action has.

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

420 likes! BLAZE IT!

[@MsTheeloisa]

The thing is they always cast beautiful actors to play "broken" people when in reality depressed/anorexic/obese/bulimic/struggling-with-mental-disorders-in-general people look unwell. Like I struggle with eating disorders and ocd (in the form of compulsive skin picking) and I look like trash most of the times so nobody would romanticize my situation.

[@rengokusfox]

zendaya looked wrecked the entirety of the show lmao what

[@addisonb.1356]

@@rengokusfox She may have looked "wrecked" because we see her a couple times with greasy hair and bags under eyes. But Zendaya herself is still a conventionally attractive person. Half the cast are literally models in real life

[@willmungas8964]

@@addisonb.1356 yeah imo for the target audience of teenage girls the use of very attractive actors/actresses in portraying horrific scenarios is rather dangerous. Teenagers, and especially girls, are all about drama, speaking as one myself. Guys tend to just keep things simple but we have our own stress from expectations to deal with. Girls at this age can be downright vicious to each other, and in the social media era value their honest friendships, actual connections, and true selves less than their social “score” so to say. Not to be sexist or further stereotypes, just that this is exactly what happens because any guy will understand that girls are wired different and are much more wrapped up in social drama. When girls start to suffer, shows and portrayals like this may lead them to believe it’s a *good* thing and act ridiculous to be dramatic. They might want to be just like the ‘tragic’ shows they watch, not realizing what they are assuming: that the actual experience will be “pretty”. Because it won’t be. Cancer patients don’t find love and validate their struggles (not do they look like average cutesy teens, there’s a reason the stereotype is baldness) like The Fault in Our Stars might indicate, and drug addicts aren’t pretty young people who die ‘tragically’, they are maybe good looking young people whose addictions physically degrade them and who die cruelly, randomly, when they can’t stop themselves. This is hard to even write because without the amount of sarcasm I would put into saying “pretty”, it sounds like romantic tragedy. Just because Romeo and Juliet is a cathartic story doesn’t mean it’s an example to follow, but I guarantee you many girls and boys fantasize about dying for their crushes in a romantic way. Reality isn’t what popular and romantic media conditions young girls to believe, and that can be very dangerous at a time when they are frankly the most frivolous and dramatic, just the time they might think their entire life is judged solely by the attention they get.

[@addisonb.1356]

@@willmungas8964 Everything you just wrote is perfect

[@chloex_x5735]

@@rengokusfox she's a model. the wrecked look they gave her is literally heroin chic. the point is that normal people don't look like that

[@ihavelemonade5640]

"But if they weren't depressed then they wouldn't have bla bla bla bla" shut up. Look me in the eyes and tell me you'd rather have a stupid painting than know a person was happy. Maybe we should be celebrating that they made great art despite their pain, not because of it.

[@bumblingbeezy]

well said

[@saphique_sanguinaire]

Van Gogh actually made his more famous paintings while in recovery

[@dope8878]

Hello, I have depression and like to make art. My art feels at times intrinsically connected to who I am and how I feel. A lot of my pain is expressed through the art and is a way for me to express my thought in more abstract or meaningful ways. So I really do feel like most famous artists who had large amounts of mental anguish succeeded due to that anguish in the way that it made them want to find meaningful ways of expressing it. If Van Gogh wasn’t so mentally out there and in pain, I doubt any of the painting ideas he had would have come to mind. But you are very right. I’d much rather be happy with who I am as a person and love my life than be the artist that I am. I’d choose mental stability over tortured artist syndrome any day of the week:

[@defenderofwisdom]

You made lemonade out of that bad sentiment. Total win.

[@scorkami1789]

also, i know SO many artists who openly say never had any issues in their life. they simply wanted to create art, practiced, had some talent, and then became good artists. and there are so many people who have mental illness but all it does to them is make them lie in bed and barely eat anything

[@peblezQ]

As a creative person, I actually find my mental illness to be a hindrance to my art. I create amazing things on my good days and lie in bed doing absolutely nothing on my bad days. My depression doesn't give me my creativity - it blocks it

[@Quon]

i feel this SO much. I haven't drawn anything in years because of how debilitating it is

[@kidslikeyouwillgotohell4093]

I struggle with the same thing. It hinders it and it drains my motivation to create it. I want to create it, even when my motivation is sapped away, but I just can't seem to push myself to do it until I get that rush of motivation sometimes. I want to build a career of making art, but I feel like I can't, as it takes enough motivation to care for myself already. It's genuinely upetting that the things one loves to do but almost seemingly can't is painful. I hope you're trying however, and that your art improves with you, yes? Take care.

[@Hello-hello-hello456]

Yes! The romanticised notion of the 'depressed writer/poet' being creative because of their sadness is harmful. Positivity breeds creativity.

[@zippylucks5990]

this sounds very similar to a struggle i have, except it kinda fluctuates sometimes when i have a depressive episode i draw it out on paper and hide it somewhere. most of the time i lie in my bed listening to music playlists. in a way drawing out my mental turmoil is stressful but also therapeutic in a way

[@zim93boy]

I felt this comment. Depression is a bitch.

[@wl415]

This may sound stupid but Rue’s recent episode in Euphoria gave me courage to go get help and though it’s slow and not linear I feel myself starting to heal.

[@jameela416]

Good on you, all the best :)

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Not stupid at all. Hell badass.

[@fuckinghikki]

that's great! best of luck to you :)

[@strawhatsmanager]

Congrats for you continue to keep going that really is badass and wonderful

[@whosmansisthis6624]

Let's gooooooo!!

[@biancadesousa]

this is why any time we see girls struggle with eating disorders on TV it’s always pretty skinny white girls. When I was big almost no one cared about my ED but suddenly when I was smaller and more fit to society’s standards I got so much sympathy from my friends and family. But when I was big it was because I was lazy and ate too much. It makes you feel like your ED isn’t real unless you’re starving yourself to death and look like it when it shows in many ways

[@SleepyMatt-zzz]

My younger sister and I had an eating disorder for sometime because we were raise by an anorexic mom. When I started getting older I gained a bit of weight and my mom would criticize me about it, at the time I had an unhealthy relationship with food. I saw her be carried to an ambulance when I was little, and since then loosing weight scared me. It only took almost 20 years for me to realize how much that fucked me up, especially as a guy, since we're not taken too seriously when it comes to that topic. At the very least, my mom has been taking way better care of herself these past few years.

[@kayligo]

I’m sorry you went through that. Hope you are doing better.

[@jessicakloos7102]

RIGHT OMGGG RIGHT!!!

[@Charlie-yq8hu]

I experienced this, if id been helped when i was heavier it wouldnt have gotten so bad and i may have recovered completly. Its easier to treat in the early stages. Instead i had to get to a point where i was hospitalised because due to rejections of help earlier, i didnt seek help later. Eating difforders are eating dissorders no matter you weight, and will still wreck you life, amd you still need help. I hope you are in a better place now (however i understand if you are still trying)

[@isaachouse1664]

Being skinny is better than being fat

[@sarawawa8984]

There’s an audio clip on KZbin that’s a 911 call made after a child (a child!!) discovered their older sibling’s body after that sibling had ended their life. The pain in the kid’s screams and cries (and you can hear another kid screaming/crying in the background and then later the dad) is honestly horrific. I do not recommend watching it if you are not in a good state of mind. Or maybe not at all. It’s haunting and horrible. Listening to that audio it’s impossible to see a silver lining. Because there isn’t one. Being depressed or suicidal doesn’t automatically make you wise and ethereal, it doesn’t make you a fallen angel or “not built for this world”. It also doesn’t make you bad or sinful. Being depressed, suicidal, addicted, etc. just means you are hurting and sick and need help, and there’s no shame in being sick and needing help.

[@laurahuynh8333]

Being mentally ill is not something to look forward to. You don’t see anyone romanticize physical illnesses such as having a cold or breaking a bone. Having depression, anxiety, or any mental disorder is just like having a physical illness. When you get sick in the body, you need to be treated. Having a mental illness is like being sick in the mind, and that must be treated.

[@xaviersmith1388]

I know the exact video you're talking about. Saw it many years ago and if I put my mind to it I could quote it word for word.

[@paperbrained]

It's even worse when you realize people used to use that video as a sound for their Tiktok's a while back. I have never felt more disgusted by humanity when I saw the sound being "trendy".

[@xaviersmith1388]

@@paperbrained excuse me WHAT THE FUCK!?

[@sarawawa8984]

@@paperbrained I didn’t know that, that’s horrifying and disgusting. I have to assume the people using it in tiktoks thought it was fake because I can’t imagine anyone using that audio if they knew it was real

[@kaiju2296]

This is like how people in the Victorian era romanticized Tuberculosis

[@yueliadragonflavour731]

Wh-what???!

[@revolverocelot4823]

I need to know the context of this

[@scp--297]

@@revolverocelot4823 It was seen as romantic way to die. As you would become skinny, pale, frail, and etc. It didn't help the poet and many plays depicted it as a good way to die. Since it wasn't fast and you suffered nicely...

[@scp--297]

@@yueliadragonflavour731 It was seen as romantic way to die. As you would become skinny, pale, frail, and etc. It didn't help that during that time poetry and many plays depicted it as a good way to die. Since it wasn't fast and you suffered beautifully.. It was weird.

[@l.pietrobon3925]

I guess we still do. Poor Arthur...

[@VagueGirl]

Tbh, The only reason we romanticize drug abuse and suicide in movies and tv shows is because they always choose pretty actors with a cool aesthetic and style.

[@jacobdyingextraordinaire4805]

💯

[@LifeisaBeautifulting]

I agree

[@rickilydickily]

for real! when i visited my friend who was admitted to a rehabilitation center, the other teenagers there looked like your ordinary, average kids. they were all struggling with something, addiction, depression, manic bipolar. they weren’t pretty, they didn’t have that “drug addict” chic to them. they were broken, they were real. it is harrowing to think how many young adults we have trying to emulate the aesthetic of drug addiction.

[@caitlinbelforti870]

Yep. If you watch the KZbin channel Soft White Underbelly you will see real quickly how Hollywood gets drug addiction wrong.

[@randompromises1038]

@@rickilydickily last time i was hospitalized for a suicide attempt, i ended up the oldest there. there were kids there that had had sex, were doing drugs, only went there and pretended they wanted to harm themselves just to avoid being arrested, and it broke me a little for some reason. half of them weren't even teens, had some awareness of their actions, but chose this. or were influenced and led to it. either way, it made me feel uncomfortable since, y'know, i actually did want to die and didn't go there because i wanted to avoid the police. it still sticks with me and i keep trying to avoid going back as a result now.

[@hellothere5871]

I can’t stand people who think metal illnesses are just personalities.

[@doyouknowdawae6660]

General Kenobi

[@wilderruiz7337]

you are a BOLD one!

[@Ava-gr1nr]

I shudder to think of what happens when they stumble upon personality disorders

[@chamallow989]

Sorry but « Metal illnesses » made me laugh

[@Samia-2003]

Same!

[@LegendaryPredalien12]

Isn't it stated that Van Gough did most of his best work when he was checked into an Asylum and actually getting some sort of care for his depression? It's just cruel to say that his depression was the source of his talent and inspiration.

[@Hadeshy]

The worst for me is The Starry Night. People say that his craziness made him paint the sky like that, that he had hallucinations, or even "mental epilepsy", wathever it's supposed to be.. I reality; He could REALLY see the sky this way from his window back then. But let's pretend he was great only because he was crazy and different from us, normal people who doesn't have "mental epilepsy".

[@mrKeyCat]

Mental asylum in 18XX? Care for depression? No doubts such things were truly developed and helpful during his time /s

[@mentallyunstable1926]

to think that if he had been properly medicated and treated we'd have better work (and more because he wouldn't kill himself) AND he'd live to see people properly praise him for it and have a fulfilled and happy life

[@mariocart817]

exactly

[@VincentDraw]

@@Hadeshy What the fuck? I bet if Van Gogh was like 10 years old when he drew that people would say "such an imaginative kid", but then for some reason when you are adult you have to same mental health issues or drug problems for people to appreciate your work. I literally have hyper imagination and that leads me to create and write stuff kind of amazing stuff that I guess will be attributed down the line to my depression or some shit.

[@xnet_cascade6257]

It would be awesome to see high schoolers in Netflix dramas actually do their homework like most of us did

[@ducksoop.x]

I never got that much homework and whatever I did get I ended up finishing in study hall or some other class

[@riyak.7393]

I mean... Do y'all really want to buy a Netfix account just to watch a bunch of teens do homework?

[@ashphalt_]

I love how Euphoria portrays the friends and families relationship with Rue. While they all love her and want her to get better they also come to the realization that they cannot “cure” Rue. She has to make the choice to try to get help herself. The show makes a purpose to push the point that Rue being an addict and mentally ill is not anyone’s fault. It’s not Rues, it’s not her family, and it’s not her friends fault. It also pushes that addiction cannot be cured or truly helped by others unless the addict themselves wants to accept the help. My dad is an alcoholic and I have come to this realization myself. I would love for my sad to stop drinking, but I recognize that nothing I do can actually stop him. Addiction is not a logical thing, it just is. My dad doesn’t drink because he dislikes his life or because he wants us to feel bad for him. He drinks because he enjoys drinking and there’s nothing more to it. Rue is similar, everyone wants her to get better but they also realize they can’t force her to get better unless she is willing to put forth some effort as well. Also I’m not saying addiction is a choice, I’m just saying that getting help for it is. Getting help may not fully prevent addiction but it can at least ease it a bit. Addiction is non logical so it cannot be a choice. It is a disorder in some sense more than a choice.

[@crazydragy4233]

The only way to truly help addiction is to prevent it. It's sad how often we chase "cures" and not deal with the underlying issue

[@FireJach]

The show shows it is Rue's fault. She decided to it because she likes it. She chose this junky path instead of something else. She has problems and she doesnt want solve them in a healthy way. This is only her fault she wants to destroy herself. You have always had an option to do a right thing but sometimes you choose this worse thing :/

[@xcxbetteroffxcx__5861]

@@FireJach no no that isn't it at all, she took it because she felt she couldn't deal with it any other way probably, she felt as if that was her only option. its not all her fault.

[@anonymous4244]

I disagree with the argument that "Addiction is non logical so it cannot be a choice". There are many many things that people choose to do or say that are completely irrational. I'd say calling addiction a choice is only applicable if the addicted has the resources to get better yet they do not attempt to. Other than that although it is technically a choice, as you are technically "willingly" consuming whatever you're addicted to, it is near impossible to mitigate without proper medical help, thus it would be a non accurate descriptor.

[@hyp0m4nia]

@@FireJach L take

[@af98]

I'm surprised that people think having illnesses like anxiety disorder and depression will help you creatively. People that suffer from depression, can have trouble doing simple things, like brushing their teeth etc. That they dont pursue hobbies because it takes too much of their energy. And anxiety disorder in no way helps. Like how would it? It stalls you from doing things because you think you need the stress to go away before you can do something you want to do.

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

It can help some times. For example HP Lovecraft managed to be the master of horror by channeling his anxieties and irrational fears into his stories

[@mahogania5536]

@@user-mx4is4fx3c I don't think it "helps" the art one creates, but rather the opposite, in the sense that art can help deal with such feelings (or at least, when the disorders don't deal strong blows to productivity)

[@GanjaOfficialFanpage]

personally i make my best music after a bipolar episode. It’s not the depression in itself, it’s coming out of it and realizing beauty again freshly.

[@_sunny__moon_]

I love drawing, but I'm depressed, badly. This would keep me from drawing for even up to three months at a time, sometimes more. Depression doesn't inspire you to do anything, it doesn't spark your imagination; it empties your mind of all the things you enjoy and fills it up with insecurities and things that you dwell over (often being dangerous thoughts). I'm glad to see that there's other people that don't see depression as an accelerator for artists.

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

@@mahogania5536 yeah that's most likely true

[@The_amazing_dust]

It sucks that people get famous because if their mental illness. BoJack Horseman discussed that in it's last season. Diane wanted to write a book about her trauma, because she felt that, if it wouldn't make her famous, the "cracks" in her would be just that- cracks. And in the end she was nothing more than a broken vase. What got her famous in the end, was the "silly" book she wrote about a mall teenage detective, while she took a break in the mall. She got famous for her writing ability and determination to finish a book- not because she captialized of her own trauma

[@MacabreStorytelling]

On a smaller scale, consider how on shows like American Idol, almost all the main contenders NEED to feature some sort of sad story in order to gain clout. God forbid someone is talented and has had good fortune throughout their lives.

[@joeyjerry1586]

@@MacabreStorytelling, it’s genuinely disgusting that some people even fake or exaggerate it to receive fame. Mental illness is not a joke. It’s something that no one should ever go through

[@anonymous4244]

So it's wrong for someone to try to share their traumatic story? Because it's "capitalizing" on trauma? Or am I understanding this wrong.

[@roxanne_]

@@anonymous4244 If you watch BoJack horseman you would understand that Diane tried to force herself into writing about her depression and trama. The op isn’t saying that its wrong to write about what happened to you in the past you just misunderstood.

[@anonymous4244]

@@roxanne_ oh. Well I guess that's correct. For me I like writing about trauma as it's therapeutic for me and seeing myself in books made me feel less alone, so I find a sense of meaning to speak on these issues. I do however be careful not to focus so much on the trauma that it makes me feel like shit... I wonder if that's what the show was criticizing?

[@avawilliams5827]

The scene where Hannah cut her wrists was probably the least romantic, rawest scene in the whole series. Especially when her parents found her, it made me realize I couldn’t bare to put myself or my parents through that kinda pain. I wish they didnt get rid of it. Also I think Hannah’s mom is the most interesting character. The way they depicted her grieving and showed how her life only got harder and harder. She alone was a sobering point.

[@kyoka1528]

This was a scene that made me think that there's not romanticization. Seeing someone in that type of condition would be terrifying. I think they took it out though so the whole effect it had is ruined.

[@kyoka1528]

@Ichijou Miyamoto Truthfully speaking when it comes to a show revolving around a suicide a key ingredient to not romanticizing it is to show just how gruesome it is. Mental illness, suicide, it's not something that people should sugarcoat. Mental illness and suicide isn't a joke and if your going to portray it, you need to do it so people know the tragedy that comes with it. There's trigger warnings the show could have put too.

[@kyoka1528]

@Ichijou Miyamoto I'm not saying we're supposed to sympathize with Hannah. I'm saying sympathize with others in the story - say her parents who found her. I don't know about you but, I felt terrible for her parents. They had to see their daughter in that state and that is fucking horrifying (for lack of better wording). I watched 13 Reasons Why when I was in a relative bad place but, seeing her parent's reactions? Her parents reaction was enough to convince me: No matter how much I feel like they don't care, I won't do it. Because I don't want that to be my own mother. That scene shows the pure pain her family felt and that is why removing that scene was a mistake. I stand by my argument: They never should have removed it. Adding trigger warnings would have been smart though.

[@nocks617]

As someone who is constantly struggling with depression, it sickens me to see that people think of it as some "creative gift". In my experience it's been the complete opposite. It's like a virus that crawls into your brain and slowly drains your passion for everything; The things you like to do, people you love to talk to, subjects you love to study etc. The worst part is that the longer you have it, the worse it gets.

[@theoneandonly7019]

Yeah I know

[@ClassybitchSassybitch]

Exactly, yet fools are making this shit trendy.

[@cherrywine4196]

Exactly

[@eureka2694]

I agree. Most things loose meaning and stuff you like to do, you feel too tired to do them. How is that creativity?

[@lololulu1238]

Yeah, I know. It just drains me of my energy all the time.

[@CaKoMi]

People with mental illnesses are usually only celebrated when their illness amounts to some sort of “genius.” When this isn’t the case, they’re often dismissed. It sucks that mental illness is a social deterrent until it’s able to be commodified into an aesthetic. And it sucks more still that the idea of the tortured artist implies that mentally ill people are only of value if they can channel their mental illness into something “productive.” I think it’s better to celebrate artists’ perseverance in the face of their mental anguish rather than glorify the anguish itself. Beauty can come out of suffering, but that doesn’t mean that the suffering is required for beauty to be created. I think you summed this sentiment up beautifully at the end of this video. It’s the ARTIST not the artist’s mental illness that created their work. And more compassion should be given to the people struggling with mental anguish in general, irrespective of how “productive” they are.

[@raminybhatti5740]

Brilliant comment. 👍

[@madolyn206]

Very well said!👏🏾

[@yegra]

So true.

[@JordanSullivanadventures]

really great point about commodification. capitalism alienates us from each other and keeps us working and striving constantly, and it manages to yet again profit off the very anguish created by this system.

[@shrutikumar9340]

Very nicely said!

[@satiatedego]

I don't really like to talk about it but my step dad passed away due to suicide a few years ago. He thought that his death would change the way that his work treated people. His death accomplished nothing except causing pain to all of our family.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Sorry for your loss.

[@RanMouri82]

Sorry for your loss. :( Praying for your peace.

[@oliverrasmusson2362]

I’m sorry for your loss

[@blessiemasancay4818]

I hope you and your family's doing well. ❤

[@JorgeMartinez-fo5mv]

I'm sorry for your loss.

[@raulantunez4228]

Euphoria has never once made me think that mental anguish is fun. I don’t see Rue screaming at her mom and sister and think to myself “Oh, how lovely”.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

👆👆👆

[@glumcake1216]

As someone with mental disorders, I dont think I am mysterious, sad , broody but I'm always scared that I am annoying, lazy and unreasonable. These romanticized characters make me so angry because they are portrayed as edgy and cool but in reality I often feel like a loser and irrelevant for the same issues. Having anxiety is not me walking around my room and then smoking, it is me lying and bunking work every now and then because I'm scared to face it and then feeling like a terrible person for it.

[@ZeroKitsune]

Nobody ever says this and I think more people need to...it's okay to need more time, it's okay to need to reach out to someone else, and it's okay to have those days where you just can't accomplish anything at all. I mean...obviously it would be better not to have those things, but...I struggled with depression and anxiety all through college, and it took me 9 years to get a 4 year degree, and quite frankly it's a bit of a miracle that I managed to graduate at all. And I think, looking back, the worst thing I did for myself was try to uphold those ideas...that I was a burden when I felt bad and was dragging the mood down, that I was being lazy when I spent all day feeling guilty about not doing any work but unable to actually do any work, that I just needed to try harder and push harder and... You don't need to feel guilty because you struggle. It doesn't make you hopeless, it doesn't make you a bad person, and even without knowing you, I'm certain there are people that you matter a great deal to.

[@magikforce4069]

Same,the way some people portray adhd like your goofy or funny or a crackhead,when there’s me who feels like an idiot who can’t do simple tasks,somebody who cant sit still to save their life,and can’t have a conversation without interrupting every five minutes.

[@reecedubinsky1157]

@@ZeroKitsuneknow this is a late reply but thanks man. As someone that’s currently in the stage of leaving college due to being unable to handle the pressure with my current mental struggles, this really made me feel a bit better. I’ve felt all of those feelings of worthlessness and guilt recently over not being able to start and accomplish work that I know will just drive me deeper into anxiety and depression, yet it still brings the anxiety and shame of not doing it at all. I need to just accept that now was not the right time for me to go. To hear that just one awful semester doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things like you implied really helped put things in perspective for me.

[@pixystixwhore]

i get it. i was kicked out of college due to missed assignments, im struggling to find a job and the only person i talk tooitside of my family (who i live with) is my boyfriend. all i do really is smoke weed and sit it my room. the idea that doing drugs is fun and cool and edgy sucks cause that’s half the reason i started doing them.

[@simonesalvatore9345]

I can't be the only one who finds the concept that someone's best work is caused by their suffering pure fucking disgusting. That's like saying Kurt Cobain would never have been one of the greatest melody writers of all time if he hadn't been morbidly depressed and addicted to heroin.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

And even if that WERE true, I find the idea of his daughter having to hear that crap day in and day out I appalling.

[@MrGreaves]

Although in all fairness, Kurt found escapism in music. If he wasn’t in such emotional pain, it’s likely he wouldn’t have fell in love with music. There’s a lot of reasons he turned to music but that’s pretty much the bulk of it, watch the documentary Montage of Heck as it goes into good detail and is a great watch 👍

[@cai3886]

I mean..as depressing as the concept is it’s kinda true?? A lot of artists use art to escape from their pain, which is a lot the times a big reason they become good at it and can make beautiful things out it. Saying this from personal experience, I wouldn’t be nearly as good at art as I am now if it wasn’t a cope for me. :/

[@MacabreStorytelling]

@@cai3886 I think the key here is that these artists made their art to cope with and deal with their pain as opposed to the pain being the source of the art. It is a small frame difference but an important one.

[@cai3886]

@@MacabreStorytelling Mm, that’s true. We are still the ones who decided what to do with our pain, saying it was all due to depression kinda takes away the recognition of the artist themselves.

[@katiekearney1007]

The thing is van gogh's work was actually made during the times he felt better about life. Those beautiful works weren't made when he was going through the dark moments like people romanticise. they were actually made when he was feeling a little bit better.

[@XIX965]

His best work were made when he was in a asylum Asylums back in those days werent awesome and patients in there were pretty much tortured or neglected

[@swansong_]

As a writer/poet, I can say that I indeed made poetry when I went through a depressive episode, but it wasn't beautiful at all. It was dark and horrifying, the things I wrote, if I look back at it. My more beautiful poetry and writing stems from combining my trauma with self-love and forgiveness.

[@teresav.6576]

how do you know? did he tell you?

[@MrFredstt]

@@teresav.6576 Didn't he write letters to his brother? Probably from that is how people know

[@AlexPerez-tv1zg]

I love how in euphoria we see rue romanticizing her drug use, and then just a few scenes later we see her and her mom screaming at each other and her sister crying because of her drug use

[@thedudecalledalan9095]

The classic teen movie trope of a guy being depressed and lonely until a girl came along and changed him Is the exact reason I was lonely throughout high school I had friends but i would actively try to be as lonely as possible and look sad and depressed all the time in hopes of attracting a girlfriend

[@wolfgang6442]

All that I believe is a false way to get yourself a girl who suddenly feels pity like bro at a point you outta ynderstand why your depressed then figure out ways to make yourself better and once you do that you'll be confident in wanting to try out new things to wear you do get yourself a love interest

[@thedudecalledalan9095]

@@wolfgang6442 don't worry I stop giving a fuck in my last year of highschool, I was still pissed off I didn't have money but I stopped thinking about getting a girl and just enjoyed the ride I never was depressed, I simply acted like I was in hopes of getting a girl to pitty date me, never happened and glad it didn't, otherwise I would have kept that toxic mindset

[@thedudecalledalan9095]

@@wolfgang6442 I do agree most people shouldn't be taken pills to suppress their depression, I understand some need it to avoid suicidal thoughts but I believe most times depression can be dealt with by simply going to therapy

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

Haha yeah.... I did my best to erase all my memories from highschool... Did a pretty damned good job too!

[@waffles658]

@@thedudecalledalan9095 I actually really respect that you admit to that, not many people do. That’s pretty mature of you my dude, good for you

[@zacharyclark4092]

I stopped watching after the first season for one reason: 13 Reasons Why values the suicide more than the person who had lost their life. I'm glad you see how fucked up it is.

[@RanMouri82]

Well said! When we inflate the silver lining over the actual person, we're doing it wrong.

[@Destroyer2150]

The fact that that series evolve from a suicide mystery to a whole conspiracy while pulling almost every single controversial play in the book is disgusting. The basically lost the point.

[@28maitreyagupta21]

13 reasons why was horrible. I feel soo ashamed that here in India it is soo popular.

[@graciea71]

Same! It portrayed suicide as petty and that she died just to blame it on people. Also one rule every show should go by that's just common sense is never show a suicide on screen. It makes no sense why you can't just imply it.

[@MamaMOB]

It’s literally called 13 reasons why. Unless those reasons are different mental health issues than it’s trying to blame everyone else for an internalized problem.

[@coolbeans5911]

I remember watching the movie Split and being so annoyed with "the broken are the more evolved" thing. Suffering from mental illness/ trauma does not inherently make you a better, smarter, stronger or more interesting individual, but it is the individual themselves who, with hard work and a lot of time and help, manage to work through their suffering and survive it but it is an everyday struggle.

[@agenttheater5]

like Lincoln? His depression got so bad that twice his friends started hiding scissors and razors, he got better with time but apparently he still had moments of deep what was then called 'melancholy'. He said he wasn't afraid to die but he didn't want to die without having done something to 'tell people I'd lived'.

[@GilgaMax305]

Probably took it way too literal if I'm honest lol Not saying being broken automatically makes you a better individual, but rather using it as motivation to be better.

[@haydengallina5554]

I just saw that more as what that character thought, not some preachy line intended to send a message to the audience. Split was more focused on building James McAvoys character for the crossover Glass movie, and was also just tryna be an interesting thriller. Euphoria and 13 reasons are trying to be powerful and profound works of art that send a message to the watcher. The intentions of split and those two shows were very different imo

[@kassandrakid9440]

That movie is a horrible representation of DID

[@haydengallina5554]

@@kassandrakid9440 it’s not trying to be tho...it’s just trying to be an entertaining thriller. It literally takes place in a universe with superheroes. Avengers endgame isn’t an accurate representation of war, either. You need to take the intentions of a film into account when discussing it.

[@carpevinum8645]

I liked how they did Jinx in Arcane. She was inspired, to a degree, by Harley Quinn. But they didn't sexualising her. And they didn't portray her mental illness as a fun way to be to aspire to. For all the jokes, flamboyance, energy, creativity and style (great from the pov of creating an entertaining and engaging character), they didn't make it look like a fun way to live.

[@TheDecatonkeil]

I thought quite the opposite. When I saw it to the end I thought "Here we go again. If we're not equating nature to femininity, we're equating irrationality, to oppose it to male rationality". I'm actually quite bitter of how many "strong female character leads" and "role models" in pop culture seem to be sexy, skinny, pale women whose mental illness is meant for other women to see as relatable on social media, vindicated as a personality trait that makes them special. Their design too often reminds me of the alternative pornstar, such as the models branded "Suicide Girls" or the porn actresses who end up committing suicide (we as a society haven't decided yet if sex work is demeaning or empowering). Characters who are always tangled in the arms of older, logical, Machiavellian men, whom they'd call daddy, to whom they may "soft rebel" by the end of a season, but whose dynamic will most likely keep happening through fakeouts. Recently I've even been started seeing this mobile game ad about having "anime Harley Quinns" (AKA sexualised mad assassin women) in a prison who you can make a covert ops special taskforce with (i.e. you're probably a man and these women are sexy, chained and locked at your disposal. Even if you are not abusing them $3ksv@lly, there is a creepy connotation).

[@unsightedshadow2780]

I have a similar opinion. And I actually think Arcane had a quite meta display of romanticization of trauma and pain. The difference is that it isn't from an aesthetic viewpoint. Remember a guy called Silco? There are a couples of quotes that show how absolutely romanticizes the internal turmoil of Jinx, saying it makes her stronger, and she shouldn't see herself as a monster because she is perfect, and so on. He completely misunderstands Jinx. There's another character who's trauma and pain Silco romanticizes, and that is himself. He literally gaslights himself into believing that his closest friend trying to murder him made him stronger, better, gave him a goal, and so on. And Arcane shows exactly where this way of thinking leads: nowhere but pain and suffering for everyone. This is the most meta aspect of the show.

[@carpevinum8645]

@unsightedshadow2780 they also don't reward violence in a cathartic way. Every big fight scene ends uncertain, and the protagonists never really win.

[@thess7156]

I have ADHD and I despise mental illness romanticization, people dont understand that mental illnesses are terrible, i go through manic episodes, depressive episodes, I have rejection sensitive dysphoria, I can lose/randomly gain energy. It has given me anxiety, it made me suicidal and it made me feel like I wasnt worth anything. I'm only here and alive because of my friends and family. It's hard for me to focus on a daily basis because my head is overwhelmed with different noises and thoughts. Whenever I get exited my brain goes into overdrive and all of my negative emotions disappear, and I become extremely hyper, I can make decisions that can affect me in a super negative way or in a good way. I know this comment wont stop anything but I want to say what I experiance on an almost daily basis and that I'm here because of the people that care for me.

[@thess7156]

This isnt saying that having ADHD doesnt have some pros, and because of hyperfocusing I am very good at what I love.

[@ulty1472]

Having ADHD aswell i feel you 100% stay strong man, I believe you

[@maggiespiegel7304]

I have ADHD too. It's not "cute" or "quirky" and it makes me want to scream when it's portrayed that way.

[@dilaisy_loone2846]

Same. In fact, I mostly realize I had adhd on TikTok, and downplayed because, it doesn’t sound that bad most of the times, how people explain it. That’s until I went back to college and interacting with people after the pandemia and realize that I don’t and never had any social skills, and that blurry vision I get when nervous is actually a really bad panic attack. I stared doing drugs specifically because they make my head slow down and shut the f up

[@BinaBinaBee]

@@dilaisy_loone2846 I relate to you so hard. My symptoms are constantly downplayed. I even do it to myself, thinking I’m just lazy and dumb. People don’t understand how serious and detrimental it is to your life. I also get blurry vision and it’s hard to hear people when a lot is going on around. It affects us in a million different ways that no one thinks about. It’s hard, I know, we just need a bit more patience and support. I wish you all the strength I wish I had

[@ladyblubel]

Someone who criticized 13 Reason Why described the issue with its mental health portrayal pretty well: Hannah Baker committed suicide to get revenge for the people who hurt her, which is the whole reason she made the tapes and had them heard and passed around. From their reactions and actions, it proved that her death did exactly what was intended and that’s what makes 13RW so dangerous. It shows how her death is more important than her life (which was further emphasized by season 2 being an “unrevealing” of everything she kept secret).

[@brainrot8802]

idk, she didn't seem to do it for revenge. She was genuinely depressed and couldn't do it anymore, seeing suicide as her only option. She made the tapes so that the people who ultimately pushed her into that corner understood that they had a role in that. To me it didn't feel like a revenge plot, more as a "your actions have consequences" on an extreme level

[@dekumdoriya]

@@brainrot8802 I agree

[@AquaticLotus7552]

@@brainrot8802 yeah, but the show does try to make it seem like the former

[@SonikPanther]

The whole point of the show is that Hannah isn’t golden girl, she was a regular very flawed girl who made mistakes. And it’s clear these tapes were for revenge and the whole show is about the effects of her actions and why you shouldn’t be like Hannah……

[@fm_0523]

The series should have followed the book. The book ended in a bittersweet way, with Clay passing on the tapes, knowing the bullies will probably not change, but at the same time helping Skye so that she wouldn't take her own life too. The series went too far. I don't think showing what happened after was as important as it makes it seem. Plus it makes us empathise with the bullies more than with the victim.

[@kalijohnston561]

the whole "mental illness becoming viewed as part of your personality" is so difficult and frustrating because that happens naturally when you struggle with something for long enough, and is one of the hardest parts of actually recovering (at least for me personally). When I finally got therapy, i had been struggling with anxiety and low self esteem for years. I was TERRIFIED that if i stopped being anxious, I would stop doing well in school, and if i stopped doing well in school, I would loose my identity. the fact that this mindset enforced in shows and online is so gross.

[@user-jy9rq8nj7q]

This is so true, especially with eds- your entire existence becomes based on that mental illness, there is no hobbies or success outside of those thoughts and doing everything to achieve the unrealistic goals.

[@lampad4549]

I mean mental illness is a part of your personality cause your personality is inherently linked with your mindset.

[@martaduque210]

My psychologist spent years suggesting that I start taking antidepressants and I always stubbornly refused, terrified that they would change me and my identity. They didn't. At all. My mindset is the same, but now is not so overwhelming and is easier to manage. Meds don't take away your mindset, they just prevent it from triggering a physical response like panic.

[@santyvalens]

@@lampad4549 I disagree, i have bipolar disorder (mood disorder) and ocd (anxiety disorder) and they certainly interfere with who i am as a person. I say things and make decisions that i know i wouldn't make or say if i didn't have these things. I can feel who i am as a person yet these disorders still control me but im self aware enough to know it doesn't mean that's who i am, my disorders aren't me

[@Xehanort10]

And then there's the people who don't actually have it but say they do because they think it makes them "quirky" disrespecting actual mentally ill people.

[@ceciliatoledo837]

the worst thing you can say to someone who lost their loved one is “it was Gods plan” or even “everything have a reason” like what the fuck? what is more important then have them with me?

[@crazydragy4233]

Completely agree but it's just one of those religious ideas pervasive in our society. As the author of the video said it's trying to assign meaning to the meaningless, trying to make sense of the senseless. It is an insult to the wound if you recognise it but a lot of people are in that pit and can't process things differently... Hell it's a really toxic mindset which can spiral out of control (personal experience), but it's just everywhere, partly because it's in our nature. That's why we have to acknowledge it.

[@Em_Elizabeth]

I remember this family with a lot of kids losing a husband/father. This one guy I know, while defending wide age gaps in relationships, used the deceased husband as an example of it "working". I said "Um, he passed away!" He said "well that's to be expected!" I said "He died, leaving his wife and eight kids!" And this douche goes, "Well it was God's will."

[@NotFine]

Yeah Never got how that was supposed to be a good thing

[@namayra299]

Yeah the worst response ever.

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

As someone who’s been a Christian all their life, any death being “God’s will” is a load of bullshit.

[@noisynerg9854]

"They left such an impact on the world, despite their pain, not because of it." Now that hit hard, I feel like everyone needs to hear this

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

Anyone who’s actually had to deal with things like anxiety know that it won’t help you with anything let alone being creative. I’ve had anxiety so bad before that I’ve outright skipped classes in college cause of how overwhelmed I felt. I can understand people making jokes of it at times, cause I have a self-deprecative sense of humor too, but I’d much rather not have to deal with this shit at all.

[@bimbowithadegree420]

Yes, I relate to this. My anxiety prevents me from even stepping outside most days, let alone be creative

[@rayhane8850]

I completely understand, it makes my life 10 times harder. Even thinking about making a simple phone call scares me. People don't even consider it a serious mental illness and say it'll pass with time.

[@ellejay5024]

Haven't been able to get a job or keep one more than a few months cuz of anxiety. Barely able to go interviews. It's the fucking worst thing to live with cuz it stops you from actually living

[@bubblegirl9854]

I have gone through mental health issues and being creative has helped me, everyone is different.

[@notmyluck7084]

My anxiety and depression destroyed my creativity. During the worst periods of it I stopped drawing or writing and completely gave up on any side of me that was once creative. Depression doesn’t give you personality, it takes it away.

[@jthompson1327]

Love this. It angers me so much that so many people flippantly claim to be "crazy" or have "mental illness" instead of acknowledging the shitty person they are because they feel it makes them unique and special. I have family and a wife who suffers from different mental illnesses and there is nothing romantic about it. Like you said, it is mostly turmoil and suffering they have to manage and live around each day. Shows like 13 reasons why completely miss this point and trivialize the reality of this

[@whitelilies3799]

I mean mental illness makes people act shitty sometimes, whether they regret it or not afterwards is determined by their personality

[@af98]

My sister is a horrible person, she has anxiety disorder. So do I and i don't do the things she does. So yeah you're probably right. She never apologizes for what shes done. Thinks shes the victim - when in no way can she be the victim. Tries to kid herself into thinking that oh it's okay to do what she did because shes trying to be a better person now - when shes not.

[@mechanomics2649]

Exactly and to add to that, calling people or claiming to be "autistic" flippantly.

[@MamaMOB]

@@whitelilies3799 and even if it is their mental illness making them act shitty it’s still there responsibility. Mental health issues are not an excuse for being an asshole.

[@whitelilies3799]

@@MamaMOB I never said it does. But people like to ignore the ugly fact that mental illness destroys relationships because duh, you can't act nice when your brain is in a constant state of stress.

[@Ghost_0418]

This video made me realize how I was lying to myself thinking that my struggles with mental health were because I was “too smart and kind for this world” when in reality I was just sick and blind to all the love in this world.

[@Ghost_0418]

When I say blind to all the love in this world I mean I was living without love and I thought just because I didn’t have anyone to love that hate how the world really was and anybody who said otherwise was too dumb to see the pain and suffering that goes on in this world but that’s not true. The world isn’t just pain and suffering there’s more to it than that. This video really has changed my perspective on things, thank you

[@MacabreStorytelling]

💓 Hope all is well

[@crazydragy4233]

It is hard to believe in things we don't get to experience. It truly is spectacular growth to go above your pain and believe in love anyway. It takes work and help but it is progress towards a better, happier you :)

[@Ava-gr1nr]

Hannah's suicide is also extremely triggering for self harm. Self harm is very competitive so it can cause people who view it to try it the same way, cut deeper, cut more. Which is obviously not okay especially considering how more people die from non-suicidal self harm than suicidal self harm.

[@brontebell7748]

Yup, you’re 100% right

[@ashjay7373]

but you forget that suicide is a real thing people already do it people do cut. what 13 reasons why did which no other show or movie did was show what goes through the person doing how they feel about suicide if 13rw feels like it glamorize suicide thats because season 1 was about hannah and her perspective she felt so numb about the idea of suicide they didnt glamorize suicide she wasnt a victim in all of her interactions she messed up and forgot about her parents bank papers stuff that didnt include a character from high school that made her a victim so it was reallly more about her life seeming to never be good to her it wasnt just one person... and in season 2 we find that hannah wasnt an angel how she too bullied a classmate.. this guy is only showing season 1 of 13rw its like taking 1 ep of euphoria and making an assumption that its a bad show. 13rw made people talk about suicide like no other tv show. and the creators realized and fixed many issues

[@Ava-gr1nr]

@@ashjay7373 I'm not entirely sure what your point is. I wasn't trying to say it wasn't about suicide and the ideals and stereotypes tied to it. I was just trying to add something new to the conversation, because believe it or not I wasn't wrong. I am not suicidal in any way, but for me(as someone who used to self h@rm) the scenes was incredibly triggering and caused me a lot of mental and physical pain. I haven't seen Euphoria and can't comment on it, and I hadn't actually seen 13 Reasons Why at the time either. The individual suicide scene was sent to me, so the plot points that tie into your point don't actually negate mine as it can trigger panic attacks and relapse either way.

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

@@ashjay7373 Yeah, but they did a really REALLY poor job of it. Studies have proven that 13 Reasons Why actually inspired MORE teenagers to commit not-alive-anymore....

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

@@Ava-gr1nr I never really understood the self harm thing. I put edgy scratches on my arm with a safety pin when I was a teenager but I was never actually trying to HURT myself. I grew up in a house with a lot of guns so "attempted suicide" never made sense to me, you do it or you don't. Then again I started a pack-a-day cigarette habit at 14 so maybe that's the same thing.

[@Hufflepuffalous]

Essentially, Hannah wasn’t treated as a character with real values and pain, but as a tragic event. She didn’t matter, her death did, and that’s the real problem I had with 13 reasons why.

[@anastasialovesoranges]

Funny enough, for me the most realistic portrayal of mental problems has to be the Haunting of the Hill House even though it's a horror show. I just remember watching it and suddenly be like "wait I know that feeling". I think the whole supernatural element turned out to be a great device to show the real horrors of anxiety, depression, grief and trauma.

[@choco1199]

That is a good show. I watched it for Halloween lol

[@mal1871]

so true

[@cattd00]

the family dynamic in this show is really powerful. i think the use of ideology and motif were amazing.

[@ConstanzaRigazio]

The Haunting of Hill House is an amazing show and it’s a good representation of mental health issues.

[@lampad4549]

@@ConstanzaRigazio can you give some examples of bad examples of mental health representation cause the video and alot of people claim that this is a problem with the media when they can only site one example of it and that is 13 reasons why which yeah I can see it but saying it is a problem with media as a whole is debatable and I dont see alot of examples of it.

[@mitchellfarinasdeleon3543]

I recall discussing Thirteen Reasons Why (the show) in 7th grade English when it was extremely popular (I am almost 17 now) There were several students trying to defend the shows portrayal and I recall my English teacher becoming very angry even to the point of calling it, “a giant F you” to people actually dealing with mental illness. I do not know if there is a correlation, but I did start to notice people even going as far as self diagnosing Dissociative Identity Disorder and talking about it as if it is a quirk. Disgusting

[@wyntertheicewyvern6226]

DID is not a quirk. My boyfriend has DID. And it affects many aspects of his life, including our relationship. I've developed bonds with all but one of his others, but I've had to work there. And even then, they all still have their own deals. One of them, the protector, gets angered easily, and that causes my boyfriend problems. Another is a self harming one. Another allowed him to be taken advantage of by someone he loved so that person wouldn't leave him(but that person left anyway). And one of them is pure evil. He's dangerous to my boyfriend and the rest of his others. It's not quirky or something that should be romanticized. It comes from childhood trauma.

[@mitchellfarinasdeleon3543]

@@wyntertheicewyvern6226 Real cases/stories such as your boyfriend are what make people who “self diagnose” (with no REAL evidence I might add) so despicable. I know people who deal with severe mental illness and are essentially brushed aside because so many people claim bullshit that isn’t true that it makes the serious issue of mental illness seem like less of an issue. You must be an incredibly patient and caring person to be with your boyfriend through his struggle. I admire you for that

[@wyntertheicewyvern6226]

@@mitchellfarinasdeleon3543 thank you. I am patient with him, and I care about him and his others. Aside from the dangerous one, they all like me. I'm working with them to help them and my boyfriend coexist easier.

[@cookieblacksmith5383]

The glorification of mental turmoil/illness goes way back in literature as well, notably the Victoria Era, where suffering or melancholy in the characters was considered fashionable and high-class.

[@BooksAndChocolate]

The whole "mental illness becomes your personality" mindset is actually dangerous. It pains me to see people regarding it as "cool" or "edgy". In college, I had severe anorexia nervosa that was likely triggered by the fact that I was one of the best students of my year. I don't know how my mental illness connected with my academic expectations but my mindset was something like "if I recover, I'll fail. And if I fail, I'll lose myself." It was not romantic or cool, it stole the best years of my life, this ever-consuming anxiety, the vicious circle, and 3 years later I'm still in therapy. It disgusts me to see behaviors like that endorsed in media and that's why I don't watch these kind of shows anymore. Sorry for my English btw

[@annasommers790]

Omg same yes

[@annasommers790]

I never received treatment for it but almost died and all my mom did was get me blood tested :/ it still bothers me knowing had close I was and how little my family did to understand

[@Dynoids]

Yeah. It turns out ive got some bad ADHD and I hate seeing it be attached to peoples personalities. In some cases its debilitating and really blocks you from being able to do certain things. Deal with it and try to mitigate its effects, when people know you have adhd its supposed to be to give some patience and understanding to why you do what you do, not an excuse to do nothing about it.

[@davidthor4405]

Don't worry 'bout the English, this right here is a small literary masterpiece

[@wickedweeners1955]

don’t apologize for your English, it’s actually rlly good

[@JosefinaQB]

you know euphoria wasnt romanticizing it when they literally showed Rue OD and the fact that her little sister found her- fucking heartbreaking bro like there is no way to make that seem trendy or aesthetic or desirable. they started from day 1 that this shit isnt cool Edit from later on- would this comment have been better for y’all? Doesn’t rlly matter which shows does it worse or better, in the end they’re both possibly triggering and insensitive- but also in the end people will make the art they wanna make an u can critique or complain all u want but in the end it won’t stop existing so just don’t look at the fucking art if you don’t like it and don’t bash people for happening to like that same art that you don’t like

[@andrea-ns6vq]

you lot are only protecting that show because your beloved zendaya is apart of it. if she wasn't, this show would be getting major heat lol. i think that's why sam levinson hired her in the first place. many things wrong with both shows.

[@Claire-oq7ut]

@@andrea-ns6vq I agree. Couldn’t the exact same thing this person commented be said for 13 Reasons Why and the scene where Hannah’s mom finds her dead. That shit was heartbreaking too. What’s the difference lmaoo

[@JosefinaQB]

@@andrea-ns6vq literally dont even care about zendaya- no shit shits wrong with the show but all im rlly sayin is its better than 13 reasons why lmao

[@phuck8627]

@@andrea-ns6vq yeah you literally couldn't be more wrong lol

[@spliffyrodgers4266]

@@andrea-ns6vq well aint you a special little weiredo, never heard of zendaya before euphoria watched it becuase it was apparently like skins and honestly its not really because skins is a little more honest and isnt just "drugs are bad" kinda like euphoria is, euphoria makes you actually worry about the characters and want them to be better and recognize the damage happening to the characters instead of just "enjoying the drama" its not romantic its painful to watch especially if you had people in your life who suffered through the same stuff showing a semi realistic portrayal isnt romanntacising the issue, its just presenting it if you find romantacism in that then you have issues not the show

[@Turd_Rocket]

“The pain did not make me a better person. It did not teach me not to take anything for granted. It did not teach me anything except how to be afraid to love anyone.” - Amanda Lovelace

[@Emotionalpotato_]

I watched 13 reasons why when I was fairly very young, and I can definitely tell you that this romantization has effected me greatly. At the time I watched 13 reasons why, I was at the stage where I was discovering more about my mental health, and was bullied in school. When I watched the show, I felt less alone, that I meant something. However, it wasn't in a healthy way. I thought due to this struggle of mine, I was wiser or maybe even above those individuals bullying me just because of my inner turmoil. I reached a point where I wanted to do exactly what Hannah did, kill myself, and make tapes to all those who wronged me. Thankfully, I didn't do that, I got help, and changed schools. I was in a better environment, but I also changed my perception on my mental illness. The romantization of mental illness disgusts me, and it pains me to know that I was someone who fell in the trap of it. I have anxiety, and other issues, that doesn't make me any more special or talented. Anxiety has in fact made things harder for me, not just impacted me, but also my family. It's not cute or aesthetic. I am not automatically a great person, because I have anxiety. Ironically, my worst traits come from my anxiety. The internet makes me feel less alone when I see other people with anxiety online, but this fetishy look on mental illness needs to stop. No one wants to be sad.. No one. We just use that sadness to project a sense of belonging or authority that then creates somewhat of a bit of happiness. That's not healthy. We should strive to work on ourselves, get better, take breaks when needed, to be happier.

[@happy583xox]

Anyone who has truly dealt with mental illness knows that it only ruins things, it doesn’t make anything better. Yeah, you can use your pain as inspiration for your art, but depression and anxiety do not make you a better artist. One of the major symptoms of depression is that you lose your passion for life and the things you once loved. In fact it has only hurt me creatively. I haven’t even able to draw or paint for the past five months because of depression stemmed from a personality disorder. Not to mention it ruins relationships so you feel isolated; there’s not much motivation to create things for the world when you feel like no one gives a heck anyway. Sadness is different from depression; from sadness you get music albums about breakups, from depression you get the squeezed out bits of motivation that the individual can muster up. I’m so sick of the narrative around mental illness and artists. I would do anything to have my brain work properly and to be able to create what I want when I want.

[@mechanomics2649]

This's exactly the kind of nuance required that all too often seems to be missing. Generally, at least in my experience, people seem to go one way or the other.

[@justanotherredheadattheend955]

^ THIS. Hitting a rough patch with my anxiety or depression does NOT enhance my creativity in any way. It makes me MUCH more likely to just sit on the couch and ignore the projects I genuinely love for days or weeks, because I’m simply too mentally and physically lethargic to work on them, and instead I just go to bed at 8:00PM like I’m 10.

[@IzzySarru]

I think the only "upside" to any mental illnesses I have is that ADHD helps makes me more geared to multi-tasking. I'd still take having a healthy functioning brain over that though.

[@zachariah9582]

Idk if this will help with whatever you have gone through (or are going through currently), but I'm sending nothing but supportive vibes your way. I'm rooting for you on the other side of the computer screen.

[@choco4109]

@@IzzySarru I'm no expert obviously, but isn't ADHD not a mental illness? I mean it's still debilitating in some ways especially in our society, but I thought having ADHD made you neurodivergent, not neuroatypical/ mentally ill. Genuinely asking haha

[@laraotoole3911]

Speaking as an Irish person (in whose life, Catholicism is pervasive), I think our society has been geared towards Christianity for so long that we tend to see preventable death as martyrdom because it alleviates the burden of not having prevented it. If a person dies tragically and their death is used to spearhead some movement or cause, like Jesus, this is supposed to be a “wake up call” for everyone who survives them, and the person becomes a martyr in death. This was a big deal in the struggle for Irish independence. The deaths of the conspirators behind the 1916 Easter rising caused them to be immediately martyred, and their deaths meant that anyone who was previously apathetic towards the cause were forced into action by rage and sadness. And it’s the exact same thing with mental illness, except in this case, we trivialise mental illness in ways that we can’t trivialise the fight for independence. When it comes to mental illness, martyrdom occurs so that those around the victim can say “well now, I must enjoy my life because it is so fleeting” etc, instead of demanding better for those who suffer from mental illness.

[@RanMouri82]

To clarify as a Catholic, our beliefs about martyrdom differ from cultures with a historical Catholic influence. "Martyr" means "witness", as in a witness to Jesus who we trust with our lives to the point of accepting persecution. It's not the death that's the good, but the unwavering faith despite the natural fear of death.

[@crazydragy4233]

Exactly this. Watching this I was reminded of the same sort of behaviour in my Christian mother.

[@currantevents5607]

As someone who was on tumblr and consumed much of that black-and-white “fallen angel” type content when it was at its peak, but who didn’t have depression, I felt this weird pressure to suffer. Like, the only way I could be beautiful or unique was to be in pain (mental and physical), because those who didn’t suffer were sheep/posers/basic. I convinced myself of feelings and behaviours that weren’t there in the first place, because they’d make me beautiful.

[@WhoStoleMyNachos]

People that actually have mental illnesses know that they never help you out in any way shape or form. All they do is make things worse. I’ve had so many traumatic experiences due to my ADHD and Aspergers resulting in me getting taken advantage of multiple times. This has resulted in this weird limbo state, where I have an extremely difficult time making friends with people my age (I’m 15) and just have a general lack of enthusiasm for hanging out with people my age, but people older than me don’t like having friendships with me because I’m a minor and they have to police their speech and their actions around me, and deal with my needy attitude as I’ve repressed a lot of my trauma and when I actually start to work on it (therapists haven’t worked) I start depending on the people around me to the point where it’s extremely unhealthy. I don’t see any way at all my mental illnesses helped me out in these situations, because they’re the reasons I’ve been in these situations in the first place, and I’m sick and tired of media romanticizing mental illness. It’s even worse because of my age, since so many people immediately assume that I’m faking it BECAUSE I think it’s trendy or cool or whatever. The romanticizing of mental illness actively leads people to think I’m faking it. Well guess what Nancy I’m not faking it and it’s ruining my life.

[@moistmanatee484]

In the Sopranos, Tony's dealings in the mob lead him to lose his chance at ever going back to a normal life, and puts him and his family at permanent risk (with him possibly dying at the end). In 13 Reasons Why Hannah Baker commits suicide and gains a ton of attention and is practically a fucking deity.

[@saurontrollbrawl]

Sopranos deals with all emotional aspects incredibly well and deep. I specially like Pauile's constant struggle with anxiety. Thinking he will go to hell or that he has some illness like cancer. Than multiple suicides and suicide attempts and Tony's depression and panic attacks. But what i really like is that going through to show everyone seems okay they are all laughing and cracking jokes, bustin balls and are all tough mobster guys but in reality Christopher is a drug addict, Tony is depressed, Pauile has anxiety and so on there are various suicide's and all but the show never has this dark theme.

[@teeemtee5739]

THANK. YOU. I always thought stories like these idealize mental illness and/or anguish. And what's worse is that these stories are always targeted toward a young female audience. Who are always going on about their mental problems. This is not trendy, cute, or desirable in any way. I suffer from OCD/general anxiety/depression (professionally diagnosed when I was 16). It's not fun. I struggle with it every day. These programs make kids believe that mental illness adds to your life, like it makes you more quirky and complex. Mental illness only takes away. And that's why I love Bojack Horseman. The take away from that show isn't: "Yeah I went through some stuff but look at my group of quirky friends I gained along the way. We went on some wild adventures, didn't we? Maybe my toxic patterns aren't so bad after all." Instead it's: "Get help. It's It's not your fault you deal with this but it is your responsibility to find healthy ways to cope...or eventually your toxicity will infect the people you care about - and that is your fault." Sorry, I went on a rant. Love the video!

[@Las645]

Exactly mental illness doesn’t add it just takes away things.

[@mechanomics2649]

While you're right that is ones own responsibility to find healthy ways to cope, and that it's your fault that that toxicity infect those around you in some capacity, ones environment is vital to the means of finding healthy ways to cope and work through these things. People that do not have support of any kind just aren't going to find healthy ways to cope and it's unreasonable to expect them to.

[@paintedparadox4664]

God, yeah. Bojack’s ending in particular was the biggest wakeup call.

[@palettedpersona]

@@mechanomics2649 I agree. I think it takes at least one person to show such people a better, healthier route and then it becomes the person’s responsibility of whether they’ll accept help or not.

[@isabelles254]

Agreed, Bojack finale was definitely what you described, he had a lot of opportunities to change and try to have a healthier life but instead he constantly choose to perpetuate the addiction and self destructive cycle, at the end he was left with no one..

[@cpikoart]

There is a difference between having pride in your disability and denying the negative parts of having one! Some people (including myself) take pride in the unique perspectives and experiences their disability gives them, but this includes both the good and the bad. Romanticization ignores both ableism/stigma disabled and mentally ill ppl experience and the harm these conditions can do. Love this video!

[@ajbinc6997]

On the topic of the romantication of mental health in media, have a poem I wrote a few years ago. Wrong, all wrong, The media has it wrong. It’s not romantic, it’s not poetic, And God forbid don’t say it’s quirky. It’s not tear-filled kisses. It’s not tight embraces under pretty bedsheets. It’s not rainy days, Or turned backs, Or hands clasped together in mutual understanding. No knight in shining armour could kiss this curse away for me Nor stroke my hair till I can forget about it. Imagine everything you hope it would be, But crushed beyond recognition And dragged through miles of rotting hope and carrion. It’s worse than that. Wrong, all wrong The media has it wrong. It’s not romantic, it’s pitiful. It’s not poetic, it’s raw and ugly. It’s smeared mascara and pulled hair. It’s cracked lips and yellowing teeth behind tightly-pulled smiles. It’s fury. It’s mourning. It’s wishing for a better tomorrow But also finding comfort in a worse today. It’s not showering for days. It’s cancelling plans. It’s contemplating the benefits of leaving bed in the morning. It’s frustrated teachers and disappointed parents. It’s guilt. It’s acceptance. It’s shouting and hiding. It’s trying and lying. It’s hating. It’s being hated. Wrong, all wrong The media has it wrong. It’s long sleeves in summer. It’s closed blinds and pulled covers. It’s taking too long when crossing the road. It’s caring too much Yet not being able to try hard enough. It’s nail marks in cracking palms. It’s fingers shoved too deep down throats. It’s taking one or two more pills than you should have. It’s red-soaked tissues. It’s locked doors. It’s trembling on the bathroom floor with a knife in your hand And wondering how you got there. It’s headaches. It’s amnesia. It’s joint pains and sore muscles. It’s days feeling like hours yet hours feeling like eternities. It’s blood. It’s darkness. It’s numbness. It’s vomiting and gagging and coughing and crying. It’s downing alcohol until you feel like you’re dying And it’s hoping that you finally are. It’s surviving, not living. It’s fighting, But it’s also giving up.

[@ST-hx1vl]

god this made me cry a little

[@ajbinc6997]

@@ST-hx1vl oh no don't cry :'(

[@crazydragy4233]

Made me tear up too because I related to these feelings I struggle with so much. I still struggle with wanting to be saved because I've frankly... given up but now I have people who love me and are trying to help and so I'm gonna keep trying for them. They don't save me, only I can, but they support me and will help me till I do. I can hold their hands but I do need to walk on my own legs. I wish all the best on your journeys towards a better future, you deserve it.

[@ajbinc6997]

@@crazydragy4233 Sometimes we find that the only reason that keeps us going is the people that count on us and that would be heartbroken if we gave up. It's hard to do so, but stay strong! One day things will get easier.

[@sofiafrompluto5908]

I cried for ten minutes because of the first few seconds of euphoria. my grandma used to bash me when I was younger because I was always "distracted" counting random things " instead of listening to her"

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Hope you are doing well ❤

[@ravenrose5712]

I'm so sorry to hear that. Are you with people who understand now?

[@ashjay7373]

13rw made people cry about suicide though it wasnt a comedy it did something no other show did which is show suicide and what makes a person do it in detail i say it has problems but later fixed its issues this guy is only reviewing season 1

[@sofiafrompluto5908]

@@ravenrose5712 yes

[@ravenrose5712]

@@sofiafrompluto5908 I'm glad to hear it. Rock on.

[@upsetstudios1819]

As a "game over attempt" survivor living with PTSD from my experience, the 13RW debate has been so personal to me. The discussion often triggers flashbacks, but so often I push through it just to tell my side of it. I became depressed in my pre-teens and what I recognise the most about 13RW is the romance. I had constant fantasies of my crush feeling sorry for me, or mourning my death, similar to how Clay cared for Hannah. These seem innocent enough, but it trivialized the act of 'game over' and gave me a reason to further dig myself into the dirt. On top of that, I was watching Riley Rewind on KZbin, a show with a repeated, blatant 'game over' scene. And even though I didn't think about the show, the scene stuck around in my subconscious; floating back into my head when I became sicker. *THAT* is what I'm afraid of with 13RW. The romantization that gives these warm, powerful, tragic but romatic connotations to a horrible, useless act. I'm only alive because I failed, I'm not supposed to be on this earth, but I'm here and I will always do my best to warn others so they don't fall into the same trap. 6 Years strong, and celebrating my 'death day' every year with respect, reflection and self-love

[@blessiemasancay4818]

This is a pretty inspiring message. I hope you're doing well. ❤

[@Rhowena13]

This post on Loki's characterization in _Thor: Ragnarok_ (whatyoufish4.tumblr.com/post/171486583980/how-about-3-16-and-23-any-fandom) has one of my favorite thoughts on mental illness and rescue fantasies in general: ❝ [S]omething really important: Loki gets the opportunity, thanks to Thor’s intervention, to change - to decide to be _more_ . And this is the part where I think some fans start to lose patience; my guess is that there are a lot of fans that want to see Loki redeem himself by having those around him see the fragility and the pain under his sharp and cruel edges, and … and forgive him, and accept him, and love him. And heal him. The pain and fragility is there; it’s real. I’m not for an instant saying it’s not. But here’s the thing: other people can’t heal you. Other people can’t save you. They can _help_ save you - they can extend a hand for you to take. But you have to reach out for it. Other people can’t give you redemption; you have to earn it for yourself. ❞

[@everythingiseconomics9742]

Do you also feel bad saying the word "suicide"?

[@upsetstudios1819]

@@everythingiseconomics9742 yes, that's why I avoided it. I don't always have the mental energy to remember the most horrible day of my life, and it was unnecessary for you to point it out

[@everythingiseconomics9742]

@@upsetstudios1819 Sometimes I weird people out by not being clear which word I'm avoiding. But seriously just thinking about the word is already distressing.

[@technocarp]

This comment section helped me a lot. I've been so oddly angry at myself recently that I've never endured a really traumatic event or prolonged depression, thinking that I'm weak or stupid because all my achievements feel in spite of nothing, so I couldn't possibly complain or be sad about anything. Seeing this makes me feel a little better.

[@Thebadgalgabi]

Seeing euphoria I felt like finally onscreen mental illness, drug abuse, and highschool is portrayed so realistically i know not everyone experiences are like that at all but my experience is EXACTLY like the show but with some differences. I relate to rue in soo many ways. Dealing with anxiety and depression with a drug abuse problem I struggle with everyday and still haven’t got help for. I love the contrast after the lit Halloween party the come down the day after for everyone on the show is soo real. I see my life like that a lot it’s all beautiful and euphoric when I’m doing drugs and partying but the day after, you’re hit with pure reality. I feel like thirteen reasons doesn’t even attempt to try to convey this after watching the show I was left very triggered.

[@SethHMG]

That day after is so hollow.

[@Walker-ow7vj]

Ok nah it’s portrayal of high school is very very exaggerated but the other two they do good.

[@islasullivan3463]

One show that does a good job of of not romanticizing mental illness this is Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. They make it clear from the beginning that Rebecca thinking that falling in love with Josh will solve all her problems is her being in denial of her much deeper issues.

[@sweetcyanidetea]

I really love that show! It starts as a weird comedy musical thing but evolves into showing how most if not all her actions are not based on that "love" she thinks she has for this boy but on her many mental problems and how she actually does things to better herself and understands that her past obsession was unhealthy for her and others.

[@iisanonymous1295]

Sounds pretty neat. I might try to find this show.

[@islasullivan3463]

@@iisanonymous1295 It's on Netflix.

[@m0m055]

This show literally saved my life. It’s my favorite.

[@margot356]

so true! it’s very clear throughout the show that rebecca’s struggles with mental illness are not fun or appealing to anyone. it’s also not the main focus of her character; rebecca has such a big personality and many traits (good and bad) outside of her mental illness. it’s an aspect about her that the show deals with, but it’s not her whole character. and by the end of the show she isn’t magically cured; she’s still working on herself, but she’s gotten to a healthier place by actually working and trying.

[@monimon4418]

if mental turmoil causes creativy and great works of art then why havent i painted in months? this steriotype only makes people feel worse about themselves and can enforce a negative feedback loop that is really hard to get out of.

[@littleDainolf]

I would love if my depression could finally make me write again but it is the oppsite as you say, a negative downward spiral.

[@t.lo90--93]

but in these movies arent about creativity and great works.. wtf

[@user-xq9cx9ky9m]

I love your comment because I thought I was the only one who felt even worse for not fulfilling that stereotype.

[@vaelhan1932]

I have the same thought as well.

[@bobsondugnutt5435]

I haven't made art or written in years because of my treatment-resistant depression. It's absolutely devastating when something that once brought you so much joy becomes forced or feels like a chore.

[@somethings5852]

I have psychosis and there aren’t any genius moments when I have an episode. I can’t put together coherent sentences and feel trapped and like I’m in a nightmare I need to get out of. And when I tell people they freak out-cause they think psychotic mean I’m violent or crazy. Even sometimes I feel like it’s important about me. So thanks for addressing this

[@venus67venus]

As a person who has ADHD, I think it’s GOOD actually whenever I speak about how it affects me during lectures and you know this is breaking the stigma, sharing information with both teachers and students and all that

[@sofvpgn]

ikrrr

[@Bepbo]

4:30 that whole section - Thank you. I have SUFFERED with severe depression for over 15 years, and I didn't seek proper help for a majority of reasons (didn't think I deserved the help, thought it wasn't as bad as it was, fear, etc).. but one of the reasons was because when my depression started getting dangerous and crippling, thats when it started becoming "trendy". I was afraid to speak up, cause people might think I'm exaggerating, or being attention seeking. Mental health needs to be destigmatised, not glorified. People aren't lesser beings, but you should not WANT to be mentally ill. For people who actually suffer, its never "romantic" to have an episode. Side note: I finally sought out help 2 years ago with a combo of medication and therapy, and I am happy to say I am a whole new person. I'm still me, but im the 'me' I was always meant to be. Just wanted to add a positive disclaimer lol

[@MacabreStorytelling]

🙌

[@ravenrose5712]

I'm so happy to hear that!

[@ananya1721]

"To inadvertently assign meaning to a life only after it is ended seems to be indicative of something terribly wrong in how we discuss these issues.", never related to something more than this and keep telling it to people around me all the time.

[@twokindsofovenfries32]

When I’m in a depressive state, I cannot be bothered to do anything productive. I’m tired, hungry, bored, obsessive etc. It’s hard to just get through. Art is impossible which sucks cos its my favourite thing

[@lucmoore6176]

It’s interesting how this video mentions Ian Curtis when he himself idolised singers who died young such as Jim Morrison, James Brown, Janis Joplin and decided and even pre his epilepsy diagnosis he had decided he didn’t want to live beyond his early twenties. None of them died by suicide that Curtis admired but he like many others are glamorised as the tortured artist who lived fast and died young by their own hands. The 27 Club in particular strips the human nature of these young men and women by almost mythologising them but Ian Curtis is particularly tragic because he suffered from two conditions that were poorly treated and barely understood and he’s hardly referenced as much as Kurt Cobain simply because he was four years too young to be part of the club.

[@gigigrass6050]

I was sent to a behavioral wilderness program, which completely traumatized me. It was unfit treatment for me, as I am autistic, which is not a behavioral problem. But people always try to find some sort of meaning or silver lining from it. I always get "oh but you must have learned how to survive outside" or more commonly "but now you are so much stronger and know how much you can endure". It is so triggering for me to hear stuff like that, as it invalidates the trauma and the CPTSD I probably developed from the experience. There was no reason for me to endure three months of hell, it served no good purpose, there is no silver lining. It was awful, and the impact of the experience caused me to end up back in treatment. Trauma and pain are not character building, not a learning experience, they are just trauma and pain. Pretending otherwise is giving value to something that doesn't deserve it.

[@ravenrose5712]

I'm so sorry to hear that.

[@BlackReshiram]

As a severely mentally ill person myself I had a lot of struggle with watching scenes in movies where people kill themselves, considering I've fought that urge myself for years. I'm better now, but I'm still chronically depressed and a very anxious person, and I try my best to improve, but it's hard. But I won't give up, and neither should you.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

❤

[@TeamklausyStudios]

Keep being strong, hun! 💓💓💓

[@BlackReshiram]

@@TeamklausyStudios Thank you, I will!

[@butterflypaint4332]

“I’m not disrespecting what was left behind, just pleading that IT does not get glorified”-Neon Gravestones

[@iainronald4217]

I grew up in a small town where people didn't believe in mental illness. So, despite my diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome and later as an adult, Bipolar Disorder, I was labelled a trouble student or The Hardest Button to Button. In Grade 9 I met a kid, I'll call C, a kid who simultaneously helped give me some sense of normalcy and showed me I wasn't alone. Over the past few years, I've tried to tell this story on many platforms because, despite what he gave me, I failed to give him anything but heartache. I felt guilty because Child Protective Services wouldn't listen when I told them what I witnessed at his house. He had the objectively worse life than me and it was at a party some 6 years after we fell apart, and a failed intervention of my own doing that solidified him on the path he wound up on. He came to see the world as something he didn't want to belong to, leading to complete and utter agoraphobia, locking himself in his house and refusing to leave. I realized that his story isn't my story to tell. This video reminded me of another story, one where we were walking down the back alley to play video games at his absentee father's house when the same bullies that pursued me for years and always won, came looking for someone to beat on. And, with the help of the lids to some aluminium garbage cans, we fought alongside one another and won, sending the bullies running. It's the good times, the ways a person influenced your life that you remember, even if the bad is what comes to mind.

[@luckysevens6852]

Why did this show not get canceled after the first season? Characters are unlikable and stupid, the pacing is slow plot is stretched thin. I couldn't see the appeal.

[@kadiriolanipekun6486]

Do you mean for 13RW or Euphoria? If it's for 13RW, I whole heartedly disagree

[@luckysevens6852]

@@kadiriolanipekun6486 13RW and it's ok if you disagree, just sharing my opinion.

[@sickopain2474]

@@luckysevens6852 it was easy money for netflix

[@crazydragy4233]

@@sickopain2474 And that's part of the problem.

[@Em_Elizabeth]

Considering it was based on one book, and not a very long one, it really didn't need all those seasons. That and because of it's bad message.

[@renmeli911]

I read somewhere that it was actually Van Gogh's meds that made him see some colours (e.g yellow) very bright, and it could be what aasisted his talent and that gorgeous manifestation of it. And I like that as a positive message of seeking treatment and feeling better w/o losing any part of your value

[@nobbutime]

In a weird way, I actually am proud of my ADHD. I have a pretty severe case and it can be difficult, but I've worked hard enough over years and years to take advantage of the few benefits. The ability to hyperfocus actually makes some things easier. I think at least. Learning songs, writing papers, cleaning, etc. Motivating to do those things is hard, but I guess I'm proud to be able to.

[@crazydragy4233]

It's the not succumbing to your disability part that's amazing, not the disorder. Amazing to hear you're managing well and have made it this far. I wish more people made that distinction though... I think it's partly so hard because often we do loose to our demons and it's just a way of coping with it.

[@alexa5023]

Ik what u mean but what you're proud of isnt the adhd itself but you are proud of yourself for overcoming it. I have adhd too and get what you mean

[@WeatherReportsHat]

As someone who suffers from anxiety, it's been really hard for me to recognize that my mental illness is not a part of who I am, but instead something that prevents me from being who I really want to be. The romanticization of mental illness really does have a negative effect as people.

[@JordanSullivanadventures]

I appreciate that you just kept the screen blank during your personal story; when these things are over-produced, they can feel dangerously close to commodifying human suffering, so I appreciated that you avoided that.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Thanks. I was a bit self-conscious in doing so, but trying to edit anything over it just felt odd.

[@flaurosan]

Its so funny seeing season 1 of 13 reasons why after you see how high they jumped the shark by the last season. Sure, it was never good to begin with, but it was always fun to see how bad it was, and i will always like it for that.

[@hammerite6418]

I do not deserve to be in you’re presence lord breen

[@stefannydvorak7919]

Of course you’d know about amusingly bad things, Neil Breen the great!

[@loregore7999]

As a neurodivergent person, I think my mental illnesses are a part of who I am. They are what make me me. People shouldn't think their mental illness makes them cool, but they shouldn't think of it as a curse either. Because once you get into that mindset, managing your mental illness becomes even harder. Look at those in wheelchairs, for example. If they just focused on the the things they couldn't do, they would be too busy wallowing in self pity to think about what they can do. My ADHD and anxiety may be a challenge, but are we not shaped by challenges in our life?

[@hbsupreme1499]

That's what I've been saying. It's not the fed at these things are good. But it gives a different perspective on life when it comes to overcoming challenges. And when it comes to artists who use this as fuel, it can give us a sense of culture and a insight to challenge.

[@jaash7981]

I think Euphoria does really well with its Christmas specials as the 1st season could be a little confusing especially since Rue is supposed to be an unreliable narrator. I appreciate how the specials were straightforward and shot down the glamorized details of mental illness or addiction in TV shows

[@emistyledxd545]

I think the most horrifying part that I experienced after 13rw came out was when my mom watched it. Personally, I couldn't watch past the first two episodes, if a show can't make me feel bad for a character like Hannah you failed, but anyways. My mom watched the entire first season and afterward, I remember her coming into my room and sitting on my bed, sobbing and talking about how dangerous mental illnesses can be, I was thanking the gods that she didn't know how many times I had similar thoughts and the few times I felt like taking bad actions because of it, the only reason I pushed forward was for my family and I'm glad I did. It makes me so angry seeing mental illnesses romanticized like that because no! They aren't something that makes you "oh so tortured uwu" they hurt not only the person dealing with it but it hurts the people around them, the thought that somebody could actually think "well saying I'm depressed makes me a tortured artist." Is beyond hurtful to the people actually suffering. When I'm having a bad day I can hardly talk or get out of bed so no I don't get up and create my art then. I wait until I'm in a better mindset and that usually works out for me and the people I'm around. To those hurting and afraid to get help, I promise it doesn't make you weak. You're strong for coming this far with any struggles you're having but getting help along the way isn't anything to be ashamed of.

[@destinyr2273]

The thing that always gets me, is young children using “Gacha Life” as a way to make depression and anxiety as a personality trait or it’s cool and quirky. I thought I’d say this bc of how messed up our society is... just wanted to put this out there.

[@tabitha3861]

SUCH a good video, it's crazy to think this was made before Euphoria S2 too. I think her S2 storyline only doubled down on the theme of the first: showing how much Rue glamorizes it vs. the harsh reality of the damage it causes to herself and those around her. The episode with the fallout with her family and her going withdrawal was so real and emotional. But at the same time, it doesn't paint her as a villain but as a sympathetic teen who is still grieving her dad and her childhood and doesn't know how to cope. And that despite it all, the beauty is that she is still alive and has a chance and is even forgiven. Rue felt it would be better if she was just gone from everyone's lives but the lesson the show makes is that her life means more to them than her death. No matter how messy it gets or how much bad she's done, they're better for having her in their lives. I think that's such a more powerful point to make.

[@cosmicchicken579]

Dude, you knocked it out of the park with this vid. I came in here expecting a show comparison and instead came away with teary eyes and a new sense of self worth, thanks

[@suzophone3349]

I highly recommend the book 'how i survived when my brain was trying to kill me' to anyone in a very dark place. it firmly de-romanticized self-harm and suicidal behavior for me, and added a lot of clarity in my thinking about depression and despair.

[@S0M3GUY778]

Can we also talk about how love is always seems to be a cure to all mental hardships?

[@rebekahm7317]

See I don’t think we romanticize mental illness we romanticize the idea of someone saving us. I think it stems from loneliness and that idea that somebody will fix us and care that much about us, noticed movies like requiem for a dream where no one gets saved arent as popular, you don’t see people glamorizing all the mentally ill homeless people in TV shows,It’s always the young girls that people care about, no one’s making a movie about a homeless person that kills them self and their life, because that doesn’t bring us comfort the idea of someone fixing us does

[@SethHMG]

Yeah, that’s a good one. I know a lot of people who broke themselves trying to “love” someone else into being better.

[@YeuxdeSophie]

THANK YOU FOR THIS! It’s definitely a stigma that needs to be broken. Feeling so much better about myself now.

[@Moeller750]

This is beyond compare the best meditation on mental anguish, art and human connection I have ever seen on KZbin. Thanks for making such thought-provoking and respectful content

[@KazumiNoMari]

Totally agree. When I first saw 13RW and Hannah’s Death scene, I just viewed it as shock value, but the reaction from her parents and the pain her mom felt throughout the season left a much deeper impact with me. Awesome video as usual, Mac!

[@shyannevasquez5257]

When I was a depressed teenager, I idolized Kurt Cobane. I loved his music and I wanted to be just like him when I grew up. I saw myself in him. I could identify with his story in a way that really spoke to me. Looking back on it from an adult perspective, it hurts me that my younger self felt that much distain for the world around me and didn’t care about my life. It also hurts to know that my heroes family never got to see him get better. His daughter never really knew her dad and she never will. Every day, there is somebody who praises and artists work, puts them on a pedestal, thinks of them like a king or queen, but doesn’t see the person struggling on the inside and doesn’t really care as long as they have their artwork. It’s a really dehumanizing experience. Mental health is some thing that I decided to study because of him, but his death didn’t give my life meaning. It just meant that the person that I looked up to the most didn’t wanna be here anymore and that lack of a will to live brought pain to everybody who knew him and his fans. Essentially, what I’m trying to say, is that saying that an artist can only make good art if they are depressed is really fucked up.

[@Robertjay27]

I am so beyond happy I’ve discovered your channel sir. Thank you for creating this content.

[@mrperson9482]

Wasnt planning on crying during a KZbin video today, solid writing and I was moved deeply by your personal insight on your own personal traumatic experiences. Thank you for sharing this experience and also for the video that got me to think deeper than I have prior on my own struggle.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

❤️

[@greasybumpkin1661]

Paraphrasing: "someone's life should not hold value after they have ended it" I think this point is one you have managed to articulate so clearly where many others have simply failed.

[@isar.4246]

I got caught in the tumblr trap, I already had self esteem issues but seeing posts about how suffering made me special sent me on a downward spiral into depression and an eating disorder, of course there where things happening in my life that also contributed but I know that tumblr became my validation that hurting was almost necessary. I’m better now, but do wonder what I could have done with my life if I was mentally stable during my college years.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

❤

[@CaptainSoftboy501]

Okay but that clip at the end is SO TRUE. It made me think of the things I create when I'm down and its always things that somewhat make it easier fir me to keep going. Great video and insight! Keep it up!!

[@cornycow9010]

I really needed this video today. I have been struggling with some personal stuff lately and your comments on the value of someone's life have really put things in perspective for me. Thank you ❤️