The Rise And Fall Of The Zeniths - HORIZON FORBIDDEN WEST LORE DEEP DIVE & ANALYSIS

[@neganick]

The line "you'll forgive me in a century or two" has stuck with me since finishing the game. Loving the lore dives!

[@Boxxcutter]

she really thought it would be that easy to convince Aloy of her "place" ..

[@rain-cy6ve]

@@Boxxcutter true and i guess it war unrealistic considering she knew Elizabeth rather well then she knows Aloy is a lot like Elizabeth but i guess she was blinded by feelingd

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

The Zeniths look creepy as "f." They look like a bunch of haunted dolls with the kind of eyes you don't want to stare into. 👀

[@mwuahugz1115]

@@rain-cy6ve more like blinded by her obsession. Sounds like borderline personality

[@Usotsukii.]

@@LegendaryDarkKnight602 it’s probably because they’re from another planet, meaning things must’ve changed over the time including fashion. Also based upon the fact that their rich is another factor.

[@rtql8d]

I think the hardest thing to believe (out of everything else in Horizon) is how a group of megalomaniacs managed to tolerate each other for 1000 years

[@ddp5406]

considering they could slip into their own worlds at anytime and no need to worry about life n death, i can see it faro's bunker shows what would happen if they couldn't

[@mattstorm360]

@@ddp5406 It's easy to tolerate others when you can be stuck in your own bubble and they can be stuck in their own as well doing whatever they want. I think Eric would have done a few VR games where he runs around killing all the other Zeniths, especially those that pissed him off most.

[@truthoftheuniverse4179]

fools humans trahs

[@craigharvey-gurr337]

Well narcissistic megalomaniacs have a way of surrounding themselves with others like them.

[@Chucklebot_]

They didn't have to with their own personal VR havens

[@ninfreak95]

These writers have created a world with unlimited plot potential and I love it! They also leave so many breadcrumbs for future stories. Like how they left the Zenith base on earth, the Odyssey in orbit, Nemesis potentially having any and everything from the New Zenith colony including their technology, Hephaestus being ever stronger, Peter guy potentially being alive?, Elysium and its population, we still don't know Sylens that well.... They just have SO much to work with.

[@dr.science_0177]

I wonder what our dlc will be. Hopefully a dlc where we capture Hephaestus again

[@dr.science_0177]

Considering sylens haven't taken off in the ending, I hope guerilla games explains his origins like where was his tribe, why did he betray the banuuk etc

[@ninfreak95]

@@hughielroberts6935 The guy mentioned in the first hologram, he was instrumental in the Zenith technology that made them live forever.

[@CanonShot]

I can understand why Nemesis was capable of taking out the Zenith Colony. It had ALL of their memories, system specs, security protocols, took over their machine printing facility with their passcodes, and hacked everything. Nemesis does not have the memories of everyone else on earth, who defeated the Zeniths before. Which is why when Tilda was all “it is us, the minds of far zenith.” Oh, well… we beat them once. We also have Hephaestus. Also… Hephaestus vs Nemesis? We know that Hephaestus does not go down without a fight… so yes please. I’m a bit confused on how the hell Nemesis was able to wake Hades. As far as I’m aware, Nemesis had no control over Gaias sub functions. Also a tad confused on why Hades told Aloy that he had extinct earth 3 times, rather than the 2. 3?! Why 3? That’s an open ended question. Is there another clone of Aloy? That Aloy thought was Elizabets body? I agree that they have a lot to work with. I thought this universe was so large, so I’m glad it’s getting it’s own tv show, as long as they don’t fuck it up.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

I'll bet Nemesis can track their ship.

[@spookyshran5274]

rational brain: tilda van der meer is toxic and possessive and as bad as the other zeniths art history degree in my closet: yeah but she also gave guerilla a reason to force a dutch baroque art lesson into their video game so maybe she's good actually, in this essay I will--

[@redElim]

Currently writing a term paper on Forbidden West and I couldn't relate more hahaha

[@chopdog6563]

I have a music/arts degree myself, and I found myself loving Stemmur Wordsmith (the Oserim Bard) as well as enjoying the music in Plainsong.

[@zyonhenderson67]

@@chopdog6563 Bruh plainsong had me floating

[@narulovechannel2249]

@@zyonhenderson67 Tilda is a lost potential. If Aloy just lied to her to agree to come with Tilda then convince her to defend earth, then her death would have been unnecessary. Tilda's not bad, just lonely.

[@dr.science_0177]

@@narulovechannel2249 there's no convincing her. Like the dialogue said, give her 2 hundred years or so to forgive which means she's not going to change her mind

[@noeraldinkabam]

I don’t think Tilda stopped seeing Beta because of danger. She thought Beta a poor version of Elisabet.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

Yep and when she saw Aloy and her accomplishments, she oiled her panties.

[@-Bill.]

Yep, it's why she was so obsessed with Aloy since she is almost like Elizabet reborn.

[@DrHydra47]

In her last scene she said that aloy is the one who is the most like Elisabet while saying that beta was a cheap copy

[@BeanSprouts02]

Yeah, that made me sad because I thought she was a good person, but obsessed with her second chance of saving "Elisabet"

[@speckledjim_]

The work that went into the story line...wow. it took more than a smoke with a few friends to come up with the storyline....I love it

[@WerkshopGI]

One of my few complaints about the game was the lack of integration of the Zenith’s through out the game. It would have been cool to see/fight more of their machines, for Zs to have infected machines on earth trying to find/capture Aloy, and provide wholly different environment to play in. I also wanted more Sylens

[@axx012]

This the type of game where you need to listen/read the audio and pay attention to some side quest to get a detailed story on characters. Some of the things you learn of him were not all revealed on main quest missions, like other characters, not crucial for you to know to understand the game, that's why they had it to where you can listen or read at your leisure to documentaries and audios without making it mandatory.

[@KDB349]

Honestly, it hurt having to fight Tilda and put her down. I actually liked her a lot. I wish she would have joined the crew for the upcoming final battle in the third game. It would have been so cool having her around. But I suppose she Nemesis literally wipeout her entire planet it would only be natural for her to assume that there would be no way for it to be stopped.

[@be4ze1]

Interesting that they managed to gain immortality but couldn't find a way to grow Gerrard's hair back?

[@alexdewayne9392]

This will never be solved. Lol

[@dr.science_0177]

I mean if Jeff bezos can't grow back his hair then what hope can they have

[@KermitOfWar]

@@dr.science_0177 Ha, so the leader was made to resemble Jeff Bezos. It makes total sense, since the odd fella is currently the richest man alive today.

[@CowboyPrestige101]

Bald is beautiful #TheRock

[@shydreameress264]

Maybe he liked having a smooth head

[@chibi171]

I'm calling it now. That Peter guy that's behind the immortality of the human mind. I wouldn't be surprised if it's Sylens or some connection to him. Sylens is way to knowledgeable. Even if that's the claim he makes about his pursuit to know more with the help of the focus. He just seems to know more than what's being made known to us or Alloy.

[@Msasha2727]

That would be effing crazy

[@chibi171]

@@Msasha2727 Right? If that were a option the storyline would have a crap ton of possibilities. He could still toe the line of friend/enemy. Role as a savior with that knowledge or ignore the demise of humanity and become a enemy/ obstacle along.

[@Msasha2727]

@@chibi171 Horizon just had the best plot. I never played the first one but then I did when I had covid and was stuck still for 14 days and I plowed through that game and just fell in love. This game…. I didn’t think I’d love it too but I did! It’s going to be a long ten years for the next one lol I’ll be a 45 year old women playing that game hahaha like go to bed kids mom needs the PlayStation

[@chibi171]

@@Msasha2727 I feel you lol! Heck I'll play games the same way Steve O still finds ways to do random pranks and stunts despite being a gray head lol. Games are a awesome way to kill time and escape reality for awhile. There is no shame in that. Keep gaming and being a good mom when the time comes lol.

[@ninfreak95]

I never thought about this but it's actually perfect. I can't think of any other reason why he knew exactly how to capture Hades and manipulate it like he did. He shouldn't have been able to do that in the first game. He also acts like someone who is immortal. I wonder if he actually lived in Elysium and made everyone there immortal along with him. I keep expecting Elysium to play a huge role in the story, but as of yet it's the most teased plotline of them all.

[@maryannrabo8258]

TILDA : Im not asking, ... you’re coming with me ALOY : You can’t force me Tilda! ME AS ALOY : I’m flattered 😂

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

Now THAT'S how you fight off a kidnapping. 😎

[@usamazahid3882]

@@LegendaryDarkKnight602 I can imagine TIlda's dying words, asking her why didn't Aloy come with her as it would be a better fate for them, But Aloy would tell her that It's her own fate, her own choice that she would stay on Earth, not hers.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

@@usamazahid3882 And to think, had she not pulled that little stunt she probably could've given us more insight on their achievements on Sirius and probably give more insight on Nemesis in the next game.

[@emmanuelprudhomme9529]

Every time I see someone criticizing the concept of the zenith(like their immortality, advanced technology, etc), I roll my eyes incensed, like did they forget the world has repair by a terraforming system who has been constructed in TWO YEARS and the ultra-sophisticated design of the Horus?!

[@Shadow-yu7vl]

I dont think Tilda cut off Beta from the Data channel to protect her ... I think she was grooming Beta to be like Liz and when she discovered that Beta was nothing like Liz she cut her off...and then she found Aloy who was soo like Liz and became obsessed with taking her (against her will) on the shuttle.. bit rapey imo. Also I never pieced together that they called her Beta coz ol Aunty Liz was Alpha, Id assumed that theyd made an alpha version of her and it went wrong so they made Beta lol very clever.... And Gerard ..for all their technology and he still chooses to be bald? Thought that was an interesting design choice hah.. Also I felt a little cheated with the whole Ted Faro thing ... Can you imagine the conversation if hed survived and talked face to face with Aloy?!!! Man id wanna see that.

[@chris4380]

He looks like Lex Luthor to me.

[@ManiyaVinas]

@@chris4380 I thought about jeff bezos

[@vr4848]

Absolutely. Even in the end, she refers to Beta as a pale imitation of the real thing. She's very good at lying. She's the one speaking on the project anzu datapoint and then tells Lis she had nothing to do with the plan to steal Gaia when she's the world's top information broker. As for Faro, I felt more cheated we didn't get to see his morphed messed up body! I figured we probably couldn't talk to him cuz he would be completely gone mentally but we should've been able to fight his blob body

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

@@chris4380 I was thinking Saitama with a suit.

[@shydreameress264]

I love that Faro tried to become immortal just like the Zeniths (unless he failed). Also I did some "research" and people seem to think that Faro probably looked like a Resident evil boss. But considering the fact that his cells kept mutating, keeping him alive, for a thousand years. Faro just became an enormous flesh mass rigged with tumours. He must have weighted way more than a ton.

[@ASKP007]

I love your deep dive into this Game, even after platinuming it i am Obsessed.

[@eden20111]

when the Zeniths returned to Earth, were they aware that Apollo was purged and the people lived primitive lives? I wonder how the Zeniths would treat the people of earth if Apollo was never destroyed? Instead of primitives what if they were intellects and knowledgeable, would the Zeniths still treat them like vermin and try to kill them anyway?

[@MadBeastTitan]

Well it was basically 1000 years later so, if apollo wasn't purged, the humans wouldn't have reverted to the tribes and most likely started to elevate humanity. I'm thinking, at the current time of hfw, humanity and the zeniths would've been even. 🤷🏿‍♂️ maybe

[@Massey2332]

Considering the clawback ended the same way the first apocalypse ended, I doubt it

[@Guinnessmonkey1]

It is possible they were hoping that the Zero Dawn humanity on Earth was as advanced and could help them defeat Nemesis. If so I imagine they freaked out a bit when they found out that the planet was populated by mostly illiterate tribespeople. Though if so why have Beta? I have to assume that at some point over the last thousand years they sent a probe or something to Earth and were aware that things had somehow gone wrong.

[@tonyj9743]

These people were titans of industry before they even left earth, so chances are good they already treated the many intellectuals that worked for them like shit. I doubt a thousand years of immortality and god hood would have mellowed them out, so even if earth were full of advanced people, the Zenith's would have been every bit as douchey.

[@UmisTsukishiro00]

How do the present day rich pricks treat regular people? Maybe they wouldn't explicitly be "vermin", but the masses would still be beneath them.

[@Diva2011Girl]

I do Love the zeniths base like a futuristic palace of versailles.

[@ericschuller908]

Speaking as someone who has had dissociative identity disorder, the mere nightmarish concept of having separate, disparate personalities festering around and struggling for control and driven by rage is exactly as nightmarish as it sounds. Except Nemesis is far worse in every possible, pants-shittingly horrific way for several reasons: 1. It's component personalities were primarily made up of copies of profoundly self-centered and greedy human beings who made up the absolute worst of our species. 2. It spent centuries in insolation. Human minds are made to socialize with varying degrees of frequency, intensity, and duration. This entity spent hundreds of years without any human contact. And considering how narcissistic the component personalities were, this was hell for such a being, with no one to praise it or interact with it. 3. Its mind was a jumbled together mess. I have had experience being a three-part person, and it is difficult to function like that in the best of circumstances. But unlike someone with dissociative identity disorder, the components of Nemesis were of whole and complete minds. They were not simply fragments of a single original consciousness. These were complete copies of people mixed together with their own thoughts, memories, personalities, ambitions, desires, preferences, prejudices, proclivities, and beliefs. And most of them were antisocial monsters to start with. No mind is meant to handle all of that at once. So yeah. While I have some insight into what Nemesis's mind would be like, it's so much worse in every imaginable facet and dimension and gets worse the more you think about it.

[@xbree_]

I just wanna eat Horizon lore up. Thanks for the video.

[@Hero_Of_Old]

I just wanna eat Aloy up.

[@zaulsavage6864]

Same

[@davidwhitfield6025]

So the Zenith's achieved the immortal life without mutation that Faro failed to. Curious that he didn't try and join Zenith unless it was because of his deep seated guilt over the Faro plague and his determination that his crime (and humanity's mistakes) would be erased. Also he was unlikely to be the leader with many of these wealthy people rightly blaming him for their having to do this in the first place. He may have at least learned of what Zenith were up to and was trying to replicate it on Earth rather than flee to the stars. Nice if convoluted explanation of why/how Hades woke up. Thank you my lady for such a clear and succinct summation of this most convoluted of HZD tribes.

[@johno1544]

Faro could have definitely afforded any ticket price. But I suspect the reasons you stated may have made him decided not to got with them. I wouldnt be shocked if he pursued other avenues of immortality like the Zeniths as well. He may have had equal or better tech for digital mind uploads

[@farhanibrahim6431]

Probably, he wanted to be the God-King to the primitive tribe

[@LexYeen]

"Why be a colonist when I could be a god?" -Ted Faro, probably

[@davidwhitfield6025]

@@LexYeen Yes I think you are right. Makes him even more of a shitty character if he actually planned to terminate Apollo, and the Alphas so he could become a God to the primitives that followed. Frankly I think not as that takes far more planning and duplicity that Faro is capable off. I think more likely he just stumbled from covering his butt, to killing the Alphas to really cover his Butt (along with deleting Apollo) and then thinking hey making the new mankind in an acceptable image for him doesn't sound that bad!

[@psaikik]

i can also imagine far zenith just did not want him on the odyssey

[@VanessaRGmail]

Amazing videos! There's so much lore spread across the game that it's very easy to miss stuff and get lost. As for the Zeniths, I was kinda bummed they are all (presumedly) dead now, but then I realized that since Nemesis is an amalgam of their collective shittiness we may still be able to sort of see and learn more about them in the future. Just a thought. And you certainly won't hear me complaining if Guerrilla manages to sneak more Carrie-Anne Moss in a third entry of the series.

[@CaptainPilipinas]

'it's bery easy to miss-'. because Most people....well....

[@acattygamer3065]

As someone who really wants to know all the new Horizon lore but who didn’t enjoy the gameplay of the first title, I really appreciate these videos!

[@kevinmanga117]

Horizon has amazing lore. Keep up the good work.

[@robonixon83]

Learned a few extra things. Thanks for the deep dive :)

[@chanmarr8118]

I kept wishing Beta would change her name. The 1st time I heard it I immediately said “well, that’s condescending”. Hopefully she does so in the next one.

[@timur5241]

Just don't let it be "Aloy #2"

[@eurogamer]

Me too :(

[@DawnBlxss]

I hope it’s something like Beth. Sort of sounds like Elisabet and Beta so it’s not a huge change

[@BlueMoonlight777]

Yes, it sounds like what she was for them. A tool. That's sad.

[@stephenking5852]

@@DawnBlxss that works!

[@joaocampos5325]

Eurogamer, you should promote Zoe to a Storyteller and a Writer, the way she tells these stories is just freaking amazing.

[@MonikaLockpick]

Honestly…I’m wondering, considering they did upload their consciousnesses …maybe we will meet other Zeniths, including their founder and..maybe even Stanley….. Oh and I also think that Tilda might have broken contact with Beta mostly for herself, because she just wasn’t enough like Elisabet for her

[@spookyshran5274]

I would love to meet stanley, guerilla pls

[@gacha7592]

I would like for that to happen. Who knows we might get an A.I who has something like DID

[@TarossBlackburn]

I was just checking if someone else caught that and I agree with your thought. Beta describes her experiences with Tilda as being introduced to a curated environment and Tilda getting annoyed if she asked too many questions. In my opinion she was discarded as 'not being Lis enough'.

[@rtql8d]

In one of Tilda’s dialogue trees, Stanley apparently perished on Sirius. It’s unfortunate because his story in Las Vegas was very interesting.

[@itsme7285]

I agree with Tilda not liking Beta enough. That's why she kept complimenting Aloy. She was head over heels for Aloy lol.

[@Stormbreaker1173]

I am glad i just finished the game so can finally watch your videos about it!

[@YouStinkMike]

I believe tilda somehow managed to get sobeck’s dna on board as she was the closest with her

[@Massey2332]

There's absolutely nobody else that could've gotten the chance realistically

[@garyhall2770]

makes you wonder if they got Ted's/Nemesis' DNA too.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

One night Elizabet woke up and Tilda was sneaking out of her room. 👀

[@DannyBoy443]

This was a giant movie in a game but my mind started melting a little w/ overwhelm when the "growing" building part came. I have to keep visiting this video in chunks lol. #Heavy.

[@guyloren]

I groaned when the metahumans walked through that hatch in the Hades test centre... for me personally,worst way they could've taken it,took the tone totally away from the wonder of Zero Dawn.😔

[@JM.....]

Especially when they just float around like superman

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

I've got feeling will be seeing the Zenith's again in the next sequel. But, I could be wrong.

[@TheLWebb100]

I hope not, they were the weakest part.

[@Killerkwoi13]

I don't think there's any left now

[@marillaramannen1710]

But yeah, one of them still alive.

[@Divercitylife]

These are so good!! Thanks for helping those of us who miss some things. Playing the game and then rehashing it with you really help solidify the story!!!

[@Mr_Phox]

Here's what I'll say about Forbidden West. It's really easy to miss the mentions of Project Odyssey in the first game. But as soon as I found that bit of lore, I KNEW they were going to be responsible for the signal that woke HADES. I never could have predicted just how far it went though.

[@CaptainPilipinas]

more like the 'odyssey program'. a primitive version of an EXODUS program- just a thought.

[@CaptainPilipinas]

well, not too surprising much as there were theories already spoken about it from back then. the mentions about, like the signal being responsible for making the ZD system becoming dividedly separated, incomplete, came from supposedly the currently aged colonists of the former first odyssey mission. just for them to check up on what has been happening to their supposedly thought fellow advanced Earthly reclaimers but now Disastrously turned primitives. at least....those were said-theories but never something like a FARO Plague 2.0 threat being in them.

[@TheEstrada57]

i played zero dawn 3times and this "odyssey" mention went over my head.........i dont recall them being mention in the first game

[@CaptainPilipinas]

@@TheEstrada57 red any more of the Lore texts instead at least?....

[@000jimbojones000]

easy to miss as Project Elysium in the first and second part... my guess is... Elysium and Nemesis play big roles in part 3. Gaya said Elysium was cut from her network. And everybody thinks it could only last a 100years. But we learned with odyssey that they were wrong about some parts of history.

[@priyambose_]

Very well explained. Tremendously good.

[@Strange_Lark]

I wish Tilda had survived to have a redemption arc.

[@XRevMaynardX]

Well..we only saw her hands…so you never know.

[@mannyrobles3065]

Nah she was as crazy as the others with the hook of being obsessesed with Aloy

[@MadBeastTitan]

@@mannyrobles3065 🤔 good take

[@gemsdirtykitchen3658]

@@mannyrobles3065 I started reading your comment in uncle Iroh's voice and was disappointed it didn't continue as I was expecting... ;)

[@mannyrobles3065]

@@gemsdirtykitchen3658 sorry to disappoint Lol

[@_Petrichor]

Thank you for making these!

[@entropybear5847]

A wild thought...Peter Zivumbe is Sylens, who has amnesia.

[@Atlas-pn6jv]

That scene at the end where all the Zeniths come hovering in like a bunch of Kryptonians that just got back from a glitter party... #sparklequeen

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

Yep and Aloy's team had a little "Avengers" moment in the final mission. You know the moment where the camera man makes sure to get screenshots of everyone in action.

[@justsomeone1038]

Just love your videos. Glad I found them.

[@bunsofthunder9827]

Aren’t there still Far Zenith in their shuttle orbiting above earth? Surely not every single Far Zenith would leave the ship alone up there

[@JayPknee]

Still patiently waiting for the Burning Shores video

[@NoMercy419]

Amazing video Zoe, I always love the lore videos you put out, although I do have a question for you or anyone else who might know. Do you (or anyone else) know if forbidden west will be getting a new game plus?

[@nathandrake5741]

Zeniths could sadly be a reality in our world in the future

[@wrecktalk]

It is only implied that Tilda died. It would not surprise me to find out she actually lived in the next game, especially with the hand wavey magic science this game introduced.

[@Nobody-there]

The name and thumbnail of this video are a spolier! It came up as a suggested video after watching the Zero Dawn part 2 video. I've played enough Forbidden West that I've met these people once, and assumed they're from Far Zenith, but thanks for the confirmation /s Ah well, in Zero Dawn I'd assumed the general story from the beginning so was rolling my eyes waiting for the reveal. But once that came I actually started to really enjoy the backstory and all the datapoints fleshing it out, so I hope that's the case here as well.

[@ShadowGamer179.]

Do you think some of the Zeniths could have survived the attack? Maybe that could be a possible DLC, some of them survived and are causing trouble somewhere in or near the forbidden west. Maybe the place called the burning shores? A place mentioned by Gildun in a letter found in the game. He was a character from the Zero Dawn DLC.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

I'm sure the one that got carried off by the Dreading didn't.

[@KiryuKazuma2047]

Thanks for putting this together, some great bedtime listening. Though I feel I should point out (for future videos) everyone in-game pronounce it 'Zeenith' and not Zennith, and Faro as 'Farrow' and not Pharaoh - though I'm sure the Egyptian reference isn't lost on anyone! :)

[@iron_recluse]

I feel the ending was so abrupt that it was disappointing. They found out about Nemesis and suddenly Tilda is a definite villain and demands they get on a rocket NOW and leave Earth. Like what? She seemed sensible enough to at least try to come up with solutions with Aloy on ways to save Earth and defeat Nemesis. Fighting Aloy- someone who at this point defeated war machines and eternal godlike humans- was a suicide mission. It didn’t make sense to fight her. I don’t know really dumb ending and the final boss fight was extremely easy. I was shocked because the game was so good and it built up to that. Anyways… still going to play part 3. Possibly fighting machine dinosaurs in space.

[@reapereye2122]

But you forget the 1 thing that all humans have that makes any rational and Logical thought moot Fear!

[@Msasha2727]

Yea I think in Tildas mind Nemesis was never going to lose and Alloy was an exact copy of “ the one that got away “ the idea of facing her own immortality alone was the driving force behind all of her “ help” … she didn’t want to be alone forever and She had a 1000 years to pine after Elisabet

[@000jimbojones000]

I also feel its rushed.. it feels like there is something missing between the 2nd and the 3th act.. Cut Content maybe. Even sylens and Regalla are cut short in my eyes.

[@reapereye2122]

@@000jimbojones000 Well that is not surprising as most games nowadays have to cut a lot of content due to a whole bunch of bullshit ranging from budget cuts to "We can't put this in because the CEO wants more unicorns and rainbows in this" so yea not surprising, What I guess happened was that they were short on time and had to rush it.

[@static2397]

My guy she let varl die, and I couldn't trust her from the beginning. And the companions first impressions of her weren't good (especially zo).

[@warbird333]

Hank Shaw didn't transmit the fake Gaia to Far Zenith. After interrogating Hank, Travis Tate got the transmission code and transmitted the fake Gaia himself.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

Travis: Come get 'em. You might wanna bring a spatula.

[@katfromthekong414]

Well, finished the game 2 days ago, so now I can finally dive into all your HFW videos! What a ride this was! So how long to the next one?

[@jennarmstrong3685]

I dunno if it's just me but I kind of think she looks like Tilda Swinton. Maybe could have been the inspiration for for Forbidden West Maybe?

[@caroljeeben7064]

I have a feeling whenever this series ends, it's going to end with aloy sacrificing herself in a similar way elisabet had to.

[@LegendaryDarkKnight602]

And possibly leaving Beta to somewhat fill in for Aloy. I was also wondering if both Kotallo and Sylens survive to the end

[@asarand]

That's a very good synopsis.

[@gurennash7637]

I see a potential game for the story of the far zeniths and how the protagonist could try to stop these maniacs from tearing everything apart but failed in the end. Leading to the destruction of Serius and the Far Zeniths. The protagonist could have escaped if wanted just to build up the universe from there.

[@CosmicD]

Tilda's crush spoiled some plans not in the least her own :) She wanted elisabet 2.0, not the beta version :P

[@michaellego5600]

Am I the only one that hopes that the guy who perfected Las Vegas in horizon series is somehow brought back he was the only good zenith

[@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor]

Zoe the interior designer has a nice ring to it.

[@applemilk7488]

Great video!!!

[@AssassinKillua15]

Their greed to continuously keep on living has the potential to kill all life on earth because now they've realized they've screwed up and don't actually want immortality. Seeking what is supposed to be the highest form of immortality and being completely lonely because they're just surrounded by each others egos.

[@oliviamoore3426]

I absolutely love how the writer of horizon describes exactly what will happen if we develop ai more. So, you have the weak ai. Which follows the grey goo hypothesis (the faro plague.) tell a weak ai to create paperclips out of anything. It’s the sole purpose, eventually the ai will use us and trees and more to create paperclips. Also the grey goo hypothesis is about self replication. Somewhere something g goes wrong with nano bots who’s also self replicating and they use the resources of earth and nearby planets to replicate them selves and ultimately they’ll destroy us, like the faro plague. All of these examples are of weak AI. Strong AI: examples of this would be hades, nemesis and Gaia. I personally believe that if we find a way to make machines feel or like Gaia, fix our climate, she’d go down the Hephaestus / hades route. She’d probably see us humans as the cause of the climate changing for the worse and she’d see us as a threat. All an ai would really have to do is look up humanity’s past and learn that we are violent and savage and it would view us as a threat and that’s be the end of us. Maybe we could nurture an ai to not fear us, but eh. I don’t think ai is a good idea. I believe it’ll always end up the same. The end of humanity

[@93MANIAC]

Right there with you Zoe 11:35

[@gemsdirtykitchen3658]

I can't believe Seth McFarlane is a Zenith! (9:01, 11:45, 13:20)

[@BattlestarDamocles]

And the only thing that separates Tilda from the rest is her love/obsession for Elisabet/Aloy.

[@onelovekaona]

I have been dying for some Kotallo content, please do a deep dive in Kotallo!

[@vr4848]

If you pitch shift the voice recording on the project Anzu datapoint, It's Tilda. So she was lying about having nothing to do with the Zeniths trying to steal Gaia and was most likely the mastermind behind it. This part is speculation but I also think she's the reason the Zeniths had Liz's dna to begin with.

[@madmacvengeance6131]

Looks like the upcoming Dlc of this we facing zeniths again and the rising agressions of the hands of prometheus

[@LPeck1985]

But how. As far as we know the Zeniths are done. Unless another faction of them resides in space? Actually, wasn't they shipping cargo to and from some orbital station? So maybe your point is correct. Still, I want to focus on Nemesis, and the many other secrets of Earth in regards to the Old Ones.

[@TravisRiver]

Excellent video

[@kaanasdf8131]

Can you guys make an updated video about Enduring victory? Or new data and findings about the old world?

[@stevenesbitt3528]

Theres a bit of 40k lore in here, mainly around pampering leading to a downfall and the STC'S

[@CaptainPilipinas]

our Sirius 'neighbors' had a GA-like era in them. *and they went Lazily Squandered it.* (story 'reasons' though).

[@MrSoldiersideBR]

I liked that you mentioned 'Beta' being a name that was meant to diminish the second Elisabeth clone. In fact, I hated the fact that Alloy and everyone else kept caling her that terrible name instead of spending a few minutes to allow her to chose a better name for herself.

[@DrHydra47]

I don't think most tribals know the true meaning of beta

[@KDB349]

It's kind of irrelevant. That's her name. No one's gonna question the legitimacy of your name. Besides the name itself doesn't have to be condescending

[@TrueDiox]

"white and gold" immortal, decadent excuses for humanity. And thus, the Orokin were born.

[@gurennash7637]

Horizon 3 should expand on this. Not just on the tribes and the Zeneths but also on more humans that lived before the faro plague took the earth. A d what they did ro survive. I believe that some could be cryogenically frozen somewhere in the world. And some could even be on the moon or on Mars. We could see their 10th generation in the 3rd game.

[@Ori_Kohav]

Any chance you can make a video about Sylens?

[@sahilp8727]

Goddamn it y didnt they make the fabricator a way to make a sort of personal arena where u can fight any machine if u have the resources

[@PapaBread149]

Please make one on the Quen

[@noeraldinkabam]

The Julius is what’s left of Oswald.

[@skie6282]

Lmao this video is longer then all the screentime the zeniths got

[@static2397]

Tilda :am I a joke to you?

[@The_Future_isnt_so_Bright]

Here is a question, Why didn't the Zeniths know about the death of Verbena ? Weren't they at all curious of where she was or how she died? If they knew of her death then why didn't they take measures to protect themselves? Tilda obviously knew cause of the conversation between her and Aloy at the base. So why didn't the other Zeniths know what Sylen's toy looks like?

[@Ori_Kohav]

They probably knew something killed Verbena, but didn’t know exactly what

[@The_Future_isnt_so_Bright]

@@Ori_Kohav Here's a plot hole for ya, The Zeniths had DNA of Sobeck on there ship, then clone her (beta) on the way back to Earth. Why didn't Tilda clone her back on Sirius? She pined for her for a thousand years when she could have had her cloned and been happy. In all that time this never crossed her mind? Why was her DNA stored on the ship anyways? This would have been done by Tilda and no one else.

[@Ori_Kohav]

@@The_Future_isnt_so_Bright They obviously needed Sobeck’s DNA for any case they go back to Earth, to get past the biometric locks that guard Gaia. A backup in case they either have an emergency (which they did, with Nemesis), or just want to expand their existence. As for why Tilda didn’t create a Sobeck clone earlier, the other Zeniths clearly didn’t like Sobeck, so Tilda would obviously be in trouble if they’d know about her creating a clone. It also wasn’t easy to hide anything from them. That’s why Tilda stopped giving Beta lessons at some point. I also have a theory that Tilda didn’t really expect a mere clone to replicate all of Sobeck’s good qualities, until she met Aloy.

[@imweirdfiteme593]

My favorite thing that tilda ever said was "I wonder what we could have accomplished...we had eternity"

[@LeandroSantos-yd3nj]

One thing that gets me thinking... We get to see Spectre prime destroyed but we dont actually see tilda dead... Maybe it was just a way to let it implicit but still...

[@jmgcg]

The Rise and Fall of Zenith Stardust

[@LukeJT22]

I have so much to say about this disappointing story.... but I'll just say this: I think the writers missed an opportunity (one of many) to make the Zeiniths more interesting. They should have had more of the "good ones" survive. Like Stanley Chen for example. That would have created conflict within their ranks. Maybe Stanley would have wanted to protect earth from the Zeiniths or maybe even stay so he could die in the city that he built and loved. I know earth was supposed to be a pit stop for them but that would have been better than the Zeiniths just being pure evil.

[@slevvio]

Travis Tate killed Hank Shaw (or at least deafened him)

[@nicholasley5665]

Have you done a video about Sylens and the Banuk? He's obviously of Banuk origin but we don't really know his beginnings with them. Or do we?

[@vidda2000]

What is the wealth limit to be on Far Zenith?

[@Msasha2727]

That was great, I thought I pieced together the story but my understanding was rudimentary compared to your deep dive!

[@lordnandor3274]

Zeniths are love, Zeniths are life.

[@PLAYER_42069]

Good lore video, Zoe! I like how Forbidden West's story answers questions posed in Zero Dawn, but I can't help shake the feeling the larger story suffers from the sophomore curse of Guerilla Games, trying to live up to the first game. The twists and turns with the Odyssey and Far Zenith, are just so over the top, it feels like Horizon is turning into the Matrix trilogy, unfortunately. I feel as the story progresses, it's straying away from what made the first game so unique and relatable. I hope they can dial it back and regain that uniqueness in the third entry, hopefully?

[@eanderson9599]

I personally think they messed up with the story of FW. They turned a quiet, sophisticated sci-fi story into a marvel movie. It’s so over the top, the Zenith are pretty one-dimensional, and Nemesis is very uninteresting. They probably won’t make a third game until 2026, but I’m not even really excited for it

[@PLAYER_42069]

@@eanderson9599 My biggest problem with FW is while raising the stakes are natural for a sequel, they're straying farther and farther into sci-fi fantasy more than science fiction. One reason HZD is so relatable is the future it predicts could really happen given the current state of our world and how we're recklessly putting too much trust in AI. That's what grounds the original story and links it to present day... Whereas FW is going off into, as you stated, MCU territory and losing that connection even if Aloy is still the center of it all.

[@mannyrobles3065]

@@eanderson9599 So yeah rich people venturing into space and terraforming planets is so scifi fantasy, not like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are wealthy elite and are doing just that. Hmmm, isnt Musk dabbling in AI and mentioning how dangerous it can be if it became weaponized? And still you say its not grounded in reality? It actually seems Far Zenith and Nemesis aint so absurd when the 2 richest men in the planet are doing just that. Seems pretty grounded in our reality still. Or do you just ignore that Ted Faro and the Zenith are just based on the archetype of Elon Musk and Jeff Besos?

[@mannyrobles3065]

@@PLAYER_42069 So yeah rich people venturing into space and terraforming planets is so scifi fantasy, not like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are wealthy elite and are doing just that. Hmmm, isnt Musk dabbling in AI and mentioning how dangerous it can be if it became weaponized? And still you say its not grounded in reality? It actually seems Far Zenith and Nemesis aint so absurd when the 2 richest men in the planet are doing just that. So wehre does it seem that its not grounded in reality, to me it seems as its even more pausible for the things that happen in the sequel to happen before the events in the first game. Or do you just ignore that Far Zenith and Ted Farro are stand ins for Bezos and Musk. Bezos is practically taking rich people into space and Musk wants to terrafrom Mars cause he believes we are slowly destroying Earth. And whom do you think he would take to Mars? The wealthy and the smart useful people. Yeah Forbidden West doesnt seem all impausible my friend. Heck, we might Forbidden West happening faster than we might get the Faro Plague

[@rensin2]

@@mannyrobles3065 If you think Bezos and Musk are doing the same thing as Far Zenith then you misunderstand the scale entirely. Neither of them are ever going to get people to another planet in our solar system let alone another system. And terraforming is also completely out of the question for these two. Musk in particular is a kind of con man that has somehow acquired the status of Tony Stark in the media. You need to be scientifically illiterate to believe that Far Zenith is anything other than science fantasy.

[@phoenixking3960]

Knowing this it doesn't conflict with the idea that everyone involved with zero dawn thought out living the apocalypse was impossible. With the solution and complications Faro found with his immortality I don't really consider that living. Just suffering.

[@jamentert3450]

So Beta is probably an immortal Zenith and Aloy will become the Rust for Beta in the next game and will complete Elisabeth Zobeks vision in the next 1000 years with the Zenith tech. Nemesis will reach Earth and become not the threat but the jumping platform to go to other planets since the Zeniths and the wrath reason is gone for Nemesis. Horizon.... in space.

[@mohammadarifulislam1081]

beta isn't immortal. just a clone.

[@jamentert3450]

@@mohammadarifulislam1081 wouldn't it make sense that she had the same treatment as the other Zeniths ?

[@mohammadarifulislam1081]

@@jamentert3450 but she didn't. Beta did say she was just cloned and not like the Zeniths. And the zeniths had no love for beta to give her gene therapy and make her immortal

[@thenintendoman]

Based Zoe

[@jumrug0175]

I skipped the entire game this is amazing

[@CanonShot]

2:25 LOL that was funny and sadly true.

[@Historicutuber]

The games story is so good

[@DimzAlberto]

Hey hey .. I'm just thinking what if guerrilla make a game that we play on tilda perspective and game start on the tilda when about going to Sirius and ending on tilda go to earth .. 😁😁😁 wow this is gonna be good storyline

[@DLibera]

I haven't seen anybody ever say this but: Tilda is a creepy old woman who tried to groom Beta and then discarded her when she set her eyes on Aloy who is a 20 year old CHILD. Elizabet was in her 30s/40s when she was in a relationship with Tilda. Big difference. No wonder Elizabet broke it off.

[@syzorst]

Interesting, this is starting to become more and more like Halo

[@eekenny]

The question is, what year actually Far Zenith arrived on Earth? Before Zero Dawn?

[@christobaliancantu7112]

Ok. What's the last machine?