EV Charging Adapters Are Banned From Major Networks!

[@jbmcdoogle]

I want to see them police this. They don't even maintain their charging stations!

[@tedmoss]

Anything written down on a piece of paper is theoretical, it becomes real when you go to court.

[@Stash186]

​@@tedmossBingo

[@Stash186]

Seriously, why?

[@lemongavine]

They don’t plan on policing it. They’re just making you agree that, if you do use a 3rd party adapter, you can’t sue them if something goes wrong.

[@markmcintosh7095]

I don't think they will be in business in 10 years.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

UL.amd FCC standards have to be passed for electrical equipment I would think? The simplest wall adapters, extension cables have UL and FCC certifications... I would not be surprised if random uncertified stuff is sold on Amazon, but there should be certified adapters from third parties...

[@shawnofthedata]

I am a bit concerned about the home built clauses and what that includes. Being a classic car fan, I think that converting existing ICE vehicles is an area that needs to expand.

[@KaiPonte]

This won't be an issue for EA. I rarely even find one that is operational.

[@heartoftherobot]

😂😂

[@omartin30]

What can of ev do you have?@@pine111

[@NoInfoFound]

I agree. The EA (Errors Always) network has very little incentive to keep the network running.

[@nocombed]

I have charged my Mach-E at least 30 times at EA without a hitch. I suspect a lot of exaggeration about problems because it gets clicks.

[@CL-gq3no]

@@nocombed, if it were really just people trying to get clicks we wouldn't see every auto manufacturer announcing their intent to move to Tesla's NACS standard. They aren't doing that for the connector. They are doing that to get away from the existing crappy US charging networks.

[@ontheroadwithralph1530]

Tom, you still have NOT addressed EA's move to ban class action arbitration (forget law suits - they banned those long ago). Basically, EA wants to prohibit its Pass/Pass+ members from banding together to address its appallingly bad charging performance and reliability. It says a lot about a company that it wants to protect itself from its customers' legitimate complaints, rather than fix the services that give rise to these complaints. In my view, EA and its miserable performance is the single greatest obstacle to zero-emission vehicle adoption.

[@hankmoody7521]

Well, how about addressing 5-10 years of lost time due to the lack of private and public investments in charging infrastructure in general. Where is GM? Where is Ford? Where is Toyota? VW group has below 6% market share in the US and people complaining VW isn't investing enough... also checking chargefinder, yes there are stations out of order, but in general most are at least functional. So first hand experience might not be representative.

[@_PatrickO]

The members would only be entitled to their monthly fees back. That would be the type of lawsuit where customers get tens of dollars and lawyers get millions. EA is not obligated to provide charging to anyone. The lack of available charging would be an issue you go back to the manufacturer for. You would pursue them for a buyback because they mislead you about the availability of ccs charging. Those ccs to tesla adapters are their legal way out. That is why they all caved so fast after ford announced. They all know CCS is inherently defective and once ford switched, they could no longer pretend that tesla wasn't going to take the whole market if they refused to make any good EVs. With a major legacy company on nacs, the competitive threat finally became real to their MBA mushbrains. EVs now became a real thing that is happening no matter what, so they had to take EVs seriously.

[@jbhorner]

@@hankmoody7521 To be fair, VW didn't start the infrastructure investment out of the goodness of their hearts. It came as a result of their Dieselgate fiasco. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine that they would have invested anything.

[@jbhorner]

@@_PatrickO I don't think CCS is the bad guy here, it's the lack of the charging providers providing a reliable infrastructure. Payment authorizations, as an example, are not tied to any charging standard. I don't personally know of any study that has compared the reliability of CCS as a standard versus NACS. People see that Tesla has a pretty reliable charging infrastructure and draw a conclusion it is because of NACS. My (unsubstantiated) believe is that Tesla devotes more to keeping the "lights on" than their CCS peers. This is why I laugh when I see that they will be adding NACS to their networks. That will be the litmus test in my mind.

[@natehill8069]

@@jbhorner ...which also explains them wanting to avoid being held responsible for their actions in the future.

[@kawabungah20]

The State of Charge has provided and continues to provide important information for EV owners like me. I'm so glad to have learned these possible pitfalls before making an uniformed purchase of a non-certified EV charging adapter. Thank you.

[@woodstock911snoopy]

I don’t have electric cars, but enjoy listening to the standards for the electric car charging stations.

[@tommays56]

So much NOT UL approved Devices on sale at Amazon

[@mikeselectricstuff]

In the example of pull-out of that AC adapter you showed, the CP/PP pins are recessed so they open before the current-carrying ones, so power is cut before any arcing can occur

[@GregHassler]

And the insulation extends past the pins and the ground is the longest pin. Arcing is almost impossible.

[@omelborpon3159]

On grounded 120V plugs in the USA the ground pin is more massive and longer than the hot and neutral pins for the same reason. The ground pin is the first to make contact when plugging in, and the last to lose contact when unplugging.

[@alexnutcasio936]

Tom, this is a liability issue. Enough so that third party, non-approved adapters represent a real threat to the charging infrastructure. Fire, over-charging, heat, electrocution, etc are all real threats. Think like a lawyer, not an engineer.

[@gigglybeast]

I think it’s pretty obvious, if you watched the video, that Tom knows this is a liability issue. Also, an engineer in the field is qualified to evaluate safety, a lawyer is not.

[@alexnutcasio936]

@@gigglybeast then you neither ever dealt with a corporate law department nor the engineers who have to answer to them . Every part of a car, no matter which, is subject to legal review for various reasons. This is one of those.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Presumably in the US there are chargers that you can just turn up and use a credit-card - if so, it's hard to see how they can impose these terms, short of displaying onscreen and requiring agreement.

[@slscamg]

There will be a button to start charging. And by charging there you would have accepted the Terms and Conditions yada yada yada legal speak and boom. You’re now bound by their rules.

[@Gallardo6669]

Good content. But: Normal owner will say: wtf means all that? Too complicated, one more reason to buy a tesla...

[@MissingRemote]

Thanks for highlighting this. As a liability issue, it totally makes sense for charging networks to restrict adapters. Minor point though. As soon as the signaling is severed in a J-1772 connection electricity should stop flowing. It's possible that there would be some minor arcing within the adapter, but it should happen so quickly that even that is only a potential risk. There should be no risk of anything touching a live wire if there is an accidental disconnect. I think the bigger issue is that poor connections can cause heat buildup in the adapter, which can cause a fire or weld the wires together.

[@xrotaryguy]

What if somebody uses a 400 volt adapter on an 800 volt car? What if somebody uses a 50 kilowatt adapter on a 300 kW car? I think that there are plenty of very legitimate reasons why EA and auto manufacturers don't want customers using third-party adapters.

[@MissingRemote]

@@xrotaryguy Like I said initially, as a liability issue it totally makes sense for charging networks to restrict adapters. Damage to a car, charger, or cabling are all liability issues. If you're agreeing forcefully with me, great. If not, I'm confused. The video addresses poor QC and manufacturing standards, I didn't comment on that, and it is absolutely a concern. That said, the specific concerns you raised can't exist yet. We can't buy a Supercharger to CCS adapter. Tesla EVs are 400V and all of the 3rd party adapters I'm aware of are rated at 500V+. Also, I'm not aware of any 50kW CCS to NACS adapters. if you know of one, please share the make/model. I try to stay up on these sorts of things, so it would be great to know if one of these exist (although I'm not sure why it would).

[@xrotaryguy]

I see what you're saying now. The video does make the claim several times that breaking a charge is very dangerous... Which is potentially true but... The J1772 protocol is supposed to make breaking current mid-charge safe. A poor-quality adapter could make that act less safe. No-name adapters may be flawed in any number of ways.

[@xrotaryguy]

The adapter amperage and voltage limits are probably an issue that most EV owners won't run into.

[@ToddGlasier]

@@xrotaryguy UNTIL you get $19.99 chargers from China flooding the market! Made from tinsel and bubble gum. I'm not disparaging all Chinese products; I actually have seen increased quality from a lot of them. Point is "most EV owners" will have zero knowledge or experience with the potential issues.

[@MarlinMay]

Tom, in my opinion you need to go back to the companies and pointedly ask if UL certified adapters from third parties are banned. After you get their specific answers, you need to take their answers to UL and what they have to say.

[@tedmoss]

Or you could do it yourself.

[@chrisw443]

@@tedmoss Good luck getting them to give a crap about any singular EV driver.

[@charliesullivan4304]

Are there any UL certified adapters? Or even a UL standard that they could be certified to?

[@drooplug]

​@@charliesullivan4304 ANSI/UL 22512 Electric Vehicle Plugs, Receptacles and Couplers might cover the adapters.

[@MarlinMay]

@@tedmoss Good point. I'll reach out and see if anyone in my network will give a non-automotive journalist an answer. If I get one, I'll post it.

[@CalvinHikes]

Electric car infrastructure has a long ways to go. Obviously.

[@lanceareadbhar]

If they will still charge while using them, then this language seems to imply that their not responsible if the adapter was the sole cause of any injury or damage.

[@SteveS-e1u]

Tom, thanks for pointing out some of the hazards with the 3rd party adapters! This is critical for safe EV ownership as EVs become more commonplace.

[@GlennNDavis]

EA is the only L3 for my 2014 Nissan LEAF in range(4 miles away). EA only supports one Chademo that I require per station. EA does service its units, BUT they are VERY UN RELIABLE SIGNET units using a windows OS that is not fit for KIOSK duty. MTBF is way too short! I have called EA every time that they are down. WAY MORE THAN 50 calls over 3 years. During these calls, I mention EVERY PROBLEM THAT THEY HAVE! Most get fixed eventually! EA is very friendly and perhaps a bit bored. TAKEAWAY: Don't use MS OSes! Signet's $3000 350kW wires are NOT UV STABILIZED so need a regular coating of Armor All or better spray to UV Stabilize it and prevent Chaulking! PS this is only a problem for the 11 CCS plugs and not the Chademo that I use.

[@RBickersjr]

They should rather make a standard by which quality of adaptors can be approved for all networks with some kind of seal of quality. Just because it's made by auto manufactures, doesn't mean it isn't crap.

[@StormyDog]

Good video. Thanks Tom. Totally agree with banning 3rd party adapters. Also inferior quality 14-50 plugs should be banned. Part of this problem will be alleviated when NACS is universal in NA and adapters aren't needed.

[@justinstewart3248]

Why should 14-50 plugs be banned? What?

[@cgamiga]

​@@justinstewart3248just poor quality (eg dryer, like Leviton) 14-50 receptacles, that aren't designed & built for multi-hour heavy constant load, nor frequent re-plugging.. See other videos by Tom and sandy Munro, they have melted! Fire danger. Industrial quality eg Hubbell outlets are good

[@StormyDog]

@@justinstewart3248 Inferior quality 14-50 outlets such as those typically sold in big box stores and many internet stores should be banned. Industrial quality outlets such as the heavier duty versions made by Hubbell are made to accept the constant load that EV charging requires.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Electrify America network would rather not have any customers at all. They would rather stop electric cars from being used. No one reads TOS and they are not legal instruments. No one can prove that a TOS was read, understood, and agreed to... For all they know a cat tapped the screen or walked on a keyboard to indicate that a TOS was agreed to... A lot more is needed for a contract to be a legal contract. A 16 year old person can use a car but cannot agree to a contract, etc...

[@FxsX24]

If your charging a Tesla with CCS adapter and press the button on CCS cable, it still stop the charge and display a message telling you to not use the button to stop charging. So the Tesla adapter or car is smart and shouldn't flash

[@jimmurphy5355]

Would this ban apply to the the breakaway drive-off adapter I've seen advertised and reviewed recently?

[@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney]

I would imagine so. I don't believe that's been inspected and certified safe by any testing body.

[@drewski1775]

That had good promise for safety. Maybe they can get UL certification.

[@ai4px]

As for the J1772 adapters , look carefully at the control pins. They are shorter and will unplug first in a disconnect cycle. If the power relay can drop on the EVSE before that plug finishes unplugging is unknown. But in theory (and maybe practice) the plug being pulled out will cause the relay to drop first by the time the main power pins are pulled out.

[@tedmoss]

Solid state will drop the connection, I would bet a relay can be thwarted.

[@_PatrickO]

@@tedmoss The official nacs spec only requires dropping to 60v or lower in less than 1 second. But that is obviously a minimum spec. Who knows if tesla does it much faster or not. The only real danger here is arcing that can damage the charge plug and cause it to need replacing faster. Hence why a company that barely does any maintenance is worried about this. They do not want to spend money on chargers, the money is for the execs to get paid.

[@GhostDancer65]

Correct, but not fast enough, hence all the burnt pins on first gen LEAF inlets and the EVSE that served them

[@_PatrickO]

The control pins should be shorter so they disconnect before the dc pins. I think you may have missed the actual safety feature. Go look at evject's breakaway adapter that allows you to drive off without unplugging in an emergency like an attempted car jacking. (they are 200 bucks a pop to ensure you don't just do this casually) They make sure the control pins separate first because that depowers the dc pins within a second. The ground pin should also be slighting longer than the dc power pins so it gets disconnected last. You aren't going to be able to electrocute yourself. The spec requires that power drops to 60v or less within 1s of removal, but that is bare minimum. The real risk is just damage to the connector from arcing if you yank it out without pressing the button to stop charging. Evjet avoids that because their connector breaks so any milisecond arcing is against their adapter, not the tesla plug or car. The biggest risk on adapters is having too much resistance so they heat up and start to melt. But there are thermal sensors in charger plugs and the car that hopefully will catch this before damage to either. It is also important to note, adapters were forced onto people by EA and the goofy car makers that hated EVs so they praised EA and ccs. They chose the worst plug to slowdown EV sales. They own this mess, not tesla or NACS. NACS has existed since 2012. EA did not build their first EV charger until 2018. It made zero sense to use CCS. They could have picked up the phone and called tesla before they built anything just like ford did. The mach-e and lighting are just test vehicles because ford knew they were switching to nacs before they put either of those on sale. Ford's real EVs will be the next gen with lfp, much better efficiencies, and nacs.

[@RedBatteryHead]

European CCS locks from the car side. Not by that clip. Way better I think.

[@chrisw443]

Arrest me. So some EV's cant use certain chargers?! Is it my fault there isnt a Van EV in the US? and the only way to get one is to build it? Is it my fault theres still 3 connectors? Is it my fault I need a tesla tap in some cases to not be stranded? Why dont EA get 3 plugs on all their charges instead of one usually busted chademo? This is the shitshow we run into with private networks and non standard plugs. When they have humans there to stop scrappers from cutting their cables and hauling them down to the metal plant, then I'll worry about it. The audacity of them. They really want to slow the adoption of EV's.

[@apache6084]

Of course that is a mess I don’t know ho benefits from this fuss. Not the consumers., cause there is not enough charging stations., that is a mess.

[@pokepress]

I guess this is the electrical equivalent of “don’t put gasoline into unapproved containers”.

[@FoamCrusher]

As with putting in a cheap box store socket in your DIY 40A wall connector installation, it won’t matter until it fails and the insurance companies of both your car and house won’t pay off when there is a major fire. I don’t imagine that either an EVGo or Electrify America DCFC unit is inexpensive, particularly when you would have to pay for its replacement and potentially “loss of use” charges. Paying an extra $50 or $100 for s quality approved adapter is cheap insurance.

[@thetechq]

The terms also appear to prevent charging the EcoFlow Delta Pro with the EV adapter. That power station is designed for the current involved in EV charging, but is not a vehicle so it may be prohibited.

[@timthurmond2979]

thumbs up. Enlightening video that has changed my mind about ordering a 3rd party CCS adaptor for Tesla vehicles. I will now order CCS adaptor from Tesla regardless of the additional cost.

[@cambeyon]

Service center told me this week the modification for the Tesla css adapter is not available yet for my 2018.

[@ericapelz260]

Amazon--Your one-stop source for dangerous counterfeit products.

[@todkapuz]

we see it every day.... people buy the cheapest USB "chargers" for example.... without regard to any safety certification. because they are cheaper... and typically will work in some cases or for some time.. but yeah..... scary stuff... and thats relatively low energy (120 volt to 5 volt stuff) ..... but yeah.. the arc-flash that could occur from charging connector opening.... yeah....

[@tedmoss]

That would never happen, the control pins disconnect first.

[@sam_1bsabidee950]

This is a good video. The pins connections resistance is the biggest problem. Because you cannot inspect it; it is better not taking any risk just to save a few dollars. At 500 Amps the power dissipation is 250mW per micro OHM for each pin. For some reason you get two milliohms per pin the power dissipation would be 250mW * 2000(Micro OHM to milliohms) * 2(Two pins) = 1000 Watts at the connector. The pins are located inside the plastic housing which has high thermal impedance, meaning this thing going to get extremely hot; and possibly fuses both connectors together.

[@steveurbach3093]

We all know how Car Dealers charge insane prices for parts. Why doesn't these networks SELL 'approved' adapters. They have the tools to test. BTW Until this, I would have suggest you use one of those IR temp tools to make connection measurements during your charge sessions .

[@jandraelune1]

Home-Built EVs, that is a direct stab at: JerryRigEverything and RichRebuilds. JerryRigEverything is someone else for a tear down.

[@davidbryant2872]

Excellent points. Thanks for this report. Maybe UL (Underwriters Laboratory) certification would be appropriate.

[@RickNoppenberger]

So YOU are the one that reads those things! Haha thanks for reading it though.

[@Dactylonian]

Great video, Tom. I bought a TeslaTap for my CCS car back in July. We had been taking our new/first EV out more and more, and I had started seeing Tesla destination chargers. Hopefully that UL listed adapter won’t be ‘banned’. It is comical that EA wrote in an email that the “integrity and reliability” of adapters can’t be guaranteed. Maybe they should get their own house in order first. What really struck me is your example at 7:32. That is a lot of energy, in a DC charger. Really good use of comparison.

[@_PatrickO]

EA is the entire reason we even have adapters. NACS existed since 2012. EA did not build its first charger until 2018 when it was obvious the tesla plug was market dominant and thus the market standard. Tesla had 90% of the market. CCS never made any sense. EA only chose it because their parent VW wants to slow down EVs as they need the margins from their ICE sales to survive. (we ignore 50kw chargers, those are mostly pointless because they do nothing to enable EVs to replace ICE cars. You need fast chargers for traveling or a lot of people will avoid buying EVs. Only zealots travel on 50kw chargers. The average person is not going to do that.)

[@ericapelz260]

@@_PatrickO Your argument ignores the fact that Tesla's connector is proprietary, and they refused to work with other companies back then. Your complaint about CCS should be aimed at Elon, he could have opened up NACS from the beginning.

[@_PatrickO]

@@ericapelz260 Europe uses a proprietary connector too. Mennekes Type 2 combo. They took the proprietary connector from the mennekes corporation and slapped the bottom ccs combo pins on it because the option to add 3 phase pins to j1772 was incredibly dumb since j1772 isn't strong enough to support the combo pins due to the control pins being at the bottom, the closet to the dc combo pins. Mennekes has the control pins on the top and a stronger shape, that is why european chargers do not have the sag issues that causes control pins to separate which prevents a charge session from starting. The first thing EA support will suggest with a charge session not starting is to hold the connector up with your hand until the charge session starts, then let go. That does not make it magically non-proprietary. You do realize SAE is not any kind of authority on standards right? Their standards can be called proprietary too. SAE owns the licenses and choose if they want it to be free or cost money. SAE charges somewhere because the private organization cannot exist without companies paying them money for licensing. In the end, SAE designed CCS combo, a defective plug that is too heavy to support itself. SAE has zero credibility in designing anything. Their bright idea in europe was to slap combo pins on the mennekes connector and then still falsely call it ccs combo. It is mennekes type 2 combo.

[@EinzigfreierName]

The power levels that these adaptors have to handle are nothing to mess with. I would have been very surprised if charging network operators would NOT bann homebuild or cheap crappy third party devices from being used.

[@BattNW]

I'm glad you highlighted this. I'm ending my account with EE and all apps with a ToU. I will use credit card readers for payment when I need to charge. I have a legit vehicle and just cannot accept the litigious nature of these terms. I wouldn't have to go through this to operate a gas pump which is SUPER unsafe. If it's that unsafe, they should have attendants. Thus just further scares off people trying to make the change. They should have locked the lawyers in the closet and let the 99.9% doing the right thing do do without having to indemnify them against ANY liability, which is the intent of the overall language.

[@tedmoss]

Using the system with a credit card makes you liable for following the rules, let alone the laws of electricity.

[@drooplug]

We have attendants in NJ!

[@tboneforreal]

You can't escape the rules by not using the app. You are still agreeing to a ToU when you use the charger with a credit card. You may have a legit vehicle, but the charging provider still has a right to protect their equipment. That's not to say that an adaptor approved by an automaker couldn't malfunction and cause an accident, but then it's the automaker accepting all liability and so that protects the charging provider and you in that instance. There are no adaptors for gas pumps, so no need to have any such prohibitions, but there is written language on gas pumps that specifies, for example, that you must use an approved container designed to store gas that you are pumping the gas into. But just like with the charger there is no enforcement mechanism so there is nothing to stop someone from using a milk jug to store gas, for example. All this stuff only comes into play when accidents occur and lawyers become involved. I think you're way overblowing this and in time there will probably be a certification process for charging adaptors so that charging providers would feel more comfortable with 3rd party adaptors. It also highlights why a single charging standard is necessary and the quicker every automaker switches their ports to NACS, the better.

[@MythicalWorx]

I don't see a problem with the policy if the manufacturers adapters are $50 more like you talked about, but if they are 2X as much, I will use a cheaper adapter. I've had all I can take when it comes to price gouging these last couple years.

[@charlescourtney4412]

Beware . . . there is a real difference between "cheap" and "a good buy".

[@ChristianBehnke]

I was charging at a Journie (Chevron Canada) CCS charger and a Tesla driver plugged-in with an adapter, which immediately bricked the entire charger. It killed my session (I had left for lunch), and had to walk back when my vehicle notified me the charging stopped. When the operator rebooted the charger, it wouldn't charge my vehicle - the Tesla couldn't charge either so they left. Another vehicle took their place and was able to charge, but my side of the charger didn't work again. Thanks, Tesla driver with adapter.

[@rgl168]

Do you know if the Telsa driver is using the actual Telsa CCS adapter or some 3rd party ones?

[@ChristianBehnke]

@@rgl168 It didn't look like the Tesla-brand adapters I've seen before.

[@jonpeterson5071]

Thanks Tom. I’d like to see you use fewer words and go from 25 minutes to 10-15 minutes. But…good info.

[@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney]

Thanks for the comment. Did you know that you can set the video to play at a faster speed? Click the settings icon on the bottom right of the video and set it to 1.5 speed and let me know if that's better. 😊

[@Dive-Bar-Casanova]

It's a good idea. Half the adaptors out there are really poor quality.

[@wasabi521]

Tesla needs to make a j1772 adaptor so others can use their destination chargers safely like you mention here. Until then we have no other option. I hate gate keeping.

[@Custo911]

Pretty sure they already have it. Or do you mean fast charging one?

[@ibz.a]

Just this morning I was just looking for adapters… this couldn’t come in a more timely manner

[@petertraveller6421]

How about that quick exit adaptor which will cut in half if you need to go instantly ? Now you know channel has been talking about this safety adaptor, and now it can't be used ?

[@drewski1775]

Ya I like to get one but if its going to be banned. I will just cancel my pre order

[@jamesengland7461]

The whole point of this video is to demonstrate that there are heroes along us who actually read the terms of use 😂

[@MarlinMay]

I will not be surprised if Underwriter Laboratories and ETL sues. UL is not someone EVSE manufacturers want to mess around with.

[@Resist4]

Yet even UL rated products still fail.

[@rolandtb3]

Very informative. For now and for safety/standardization issues, purchase/use car manufacturers' charging adapters. Or the charging company's tested and approved adapter.

[@heyitstim3618]

They can put whatever they want in the Terms of Service....you can still sue them for any reason you want.

[@MarlinMay]

This. If an adapter is UL certified i’m sure this ToU is not enforceable. If EA or EVgo tries to sue, any good lawyer will contact the certification organisation to let them know that the charger company is disparaging their certification, their brand, and causing harm worthy of monetary damages and a very public apology / retraction.

[@tedmoss]

AS long as you have the money.

[@pasad335]

Just another example of our government not doing its job.

[@daves1646]

Thanks for the info video. All makes sense. CO’s cant take the chance that someone uses a sub-par spec’d piece of equipment with their chargers, esp DCFC’s. Here’s nifty thing found by ‘Plug N Play EV’. An EA sponsored Evolve NY station going it, had a separate stand between DCFC’s with a CCS Combo to NACS adapter on a cable but provided by EA. Hope EA and others can find a way to do similar equipping so properly spec’d adapters are available. Probably best though to use the MagicDock approach of having the adapter mounted on the station.

[@Alexzw92]

3:00 imagine if gas stations said no gas for home made project cars

[@ronaldking1054]

Imagine if states banned the use of your home-made project car on the road. Oh wait, they have unless someone actually certified that it was roadworthy. There is a reason that modified vehicle titles exist.

[@tiredamage]

But what about the Tesla charging network? What is their take on using adapters (like the one you showed from Lectron) with their destination chargers?

[@mikeselectricstuff]

How exactly are they going to ban the use of adaptors at unmanned sites?

[@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney]

I explained that in the video. It's not really enforceable. It's really in place for liability. If there's a problem caused by the use of a non approved adapter, the customer will bear all the liability.

[@barryw9473]

Is the Tesla CCS1 - NACS adapter safety certified?

[@ai4px]

This sort of thing is why UL comes in to play. Since I assume there's no UL listing for adapters, they go with "car maker" for safety sake. The issue of course is that they can't know which charger is used since these chargers are simply pass thru devices.

[@tedmoss]

I think you mean adapters, not chargers.

[@edsmale]

Oh, you can bet they will know if you sue them…as the adapter will be in the melted pile/and/or they have cameras at every charger and they will review the footage.

[@RichDunn]

This is simply standard legal T&Cs to cover their backs in terms of no liability on them should there be an issue if you've chosen to use some sub-standard aftermarket connector plug you bought from a third party. Totally fair enough. But it doesn't mean that any reasonable quality adapter that is fit for purpose won't work just fine. If you rarely have to use a public charger, then you probably have nothing to worry about.

[@annabbott1963]

This is really important information. There should be a for your safety sign at the stations with important information like this. Not burry it in the TOS nobody reads.

[@ShadLife]

Also, if the government is going to regulate anything, maybe they need to ban all these 3rd Party cheap electric products. We have had a ton of issues with cheap phone chargers starting fires. Why are they even allowed to be sold in the first place? 🤷‍♂️

[@wesleyfoster1967]

IEEE HAS NOT APPROVED OF EAs NETWORK, they are not a governing body, neither is SAE nor USAGov!!!!!!

[@kendavis1198]

Well, No one Looked ahead at "any" of these types of Issues that are now rearing their UGLY HEADS. Along with Charging and the Anxiety that goes along with it! And the Plain and Simple Fact that EV Trucks Can Not TOW Max Payload the stated Milage. Just stuff that's showing up now along with these CHEAP JUNK Adaptors Made with No Quality Control and No one Held accountable for said J U N K!! GREAT Informative Video Tom. Thanks.

[@johnmcmahon9515]

They are concerned about putting a penny in the Fusebox! it worked but was DANGEROUSE! That's why only Circuit-Breakers are installed now!

[@649649649134]

Tom, please put out a video explaining the difference between NACS J3400 (that seems to be what the auto makers have agreed to move to) and the “NACS” that Tesla uses. Also, is Tesla moving to NACS J3400 ? Will the Tesla Universal Wall Connector you recently reviewed work with NACS 3400?

[@johnpoldo8817]

As a marketer of high power industrial control equipment, we always demanded UL Listing or equivalent safety testing for country of sale. Don’t we already have UL Listing for EV adapters in USA and equivalent in other countries? I’ve always assumed my Tesla J1772 to NACS and Tesla CCS1 to NACS adapters were UL Listed. Is it true? When learning my Amazon purchased level 2 EVSE was not UL Listed, I returned it. Tom’s reviews were a strong safety influence.

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

This would also preclude Toyota RAV4 EV 2nd gen and Mercedes B250e owners with JdeMO retrofits from using CHAdeMO charging, too.

[@Chris_In_Texas]

Like the UL approved melting Leviton NEMA14-50 outlet that isn't made for high duty cycle things like EV charging! Hummmm...

[@davidbryant2872]

This type of issue also applies to chargers for other devices. There have been quite a few serious fires resulting from charging devices for electric bikes and scooters.

[@ianjay5301]

I don't want to order a Lyriq because I am only being offered a 2024 and while it comes with an adapter for NACS, I think GM is being cheap by simply not making all 2024's NACS. I would however, order a 2025. They are hardly selling any Lyriqs - since it is an important first Ultium model, you would think they would put their finest product forward. Sadly, I guess the bean counters won - but they have lost my order in the meantime.

[@GhostDancer65]

The onus is on operators like EA and EVGO to resume support for multi-standard stations, otherwise, adaptors WILL BE USED, or they invite the epidemic of vandalism to get worse. I’d bet that some of the smashed screens were perpetrated by frustrated drivers.

[@benjaminhanke79]

19:14 "The traditional IEC approch has been to forbid use of adapters with CCS" That's it, nothing more to be said. These adapters should not exist, even the Tesla ones. You should never put an adapter on the end of a fixed cable. The cable should be electronically locked on both ends and not removable by pressing a latch. Bring your cable to a charger with a socket and the matching plug at the cars end. Of cause I know this applies only to AC charging but it's the way to go here in Europe. I had no clue that "Plug Wars" is still a thing in the US until I watched @TechnologyConnections recent video. All these problems could be fixed by fading out the stupid single phase J1772 connectors being replaced by "Type 2" or something compatible (J3068). Why does CCS 1 even exist?

[@AerialWaviator]

At 20:40 it's mentioned that there is no way to identify what equipment is connected to what. This is a major issue with current IEC standards (including CCS and proposed NACS), Why not just have every device provide its device type. All devices would need to be registered, and pass testing by the standards body. Companies selling devices (adaptors) spoofing other devices could be held legally accountable. Approved device lists will also help, as they will indicate which EV models have what connectors, so plugging into another connector type will be obvious, when an adaptor is being used. Such an approved list will also allow off-road EVs to be added in future ... like motor bikes, quads, boats, and other watercraft. CPOs need to look at the longterm, and various facets of a larger EV industry.

[@AerialWaviator]

Why do the networks not just required adaptors to meet an approved standard, or be listed by an organization like CHARIN, which most networks, and most auto manufactures are a member. In the last six months there have been at least 5 BEVs that have become nonfunctional which charging at Electrify America. So far they have been silent, causing much frustration with these customers as the CPO and various manufactures (Audi, Kia, Rivian, etc) with much finger pointing going on. There needs to be a transparent can clear process if a CPOs equipment fails and causes damage to a vehicle. (these cases all mostly without adaptors ... think there may have been a Model Y using a Tesla CCS adapter) The EV Charging industry needs to due better than forcing all the unknown risk on its customers.

[@rob1andrews]

Tesla tech explained to me that NACS have the some pins disconnect first. When those control pins disconnects, the Charger automatically shuts off charging. Locking the charging adapter is a nice to have so others cannot disconnect, but the NACS charging adapter should be fine.

[@FuncleChuck]

OK, so I guess they don't want us charging the new electric Personal Watercraft that way, since they're not land vehicles? Some have CCS charging. Also, how the hell do they plan to police this at all? '"Sold by Automakers" is also a completely nonsense statement. Which Automakers? Do dealers count?

[@NO_OPEC_NO_PROBLEM]

EV-GO-AWAY banned non-oem adapters a couple years ago. I support this as these cheap non-oem adapters are a safety and fire risk. Let’s hope Tesla only allows “approved” adapters, Made For Tesla anyone??

[@johnpoldo8817]

I was stunned EA & EVgo attorneys didn’t demand this years ago. If there was a fire or worse, bodily injury, there’s too much confusion on who to blame. Is it the car, adapter, or charging company? With this new rule, only charging and car company are involved. However, I’m dismissing “operator error”, but it is major factor too. The legal battle is much simpler when adapter is provided by car or charger company.

[@elmojito]

Stupid question: why would anyone use an adapter, except Tesla or perhaps a Leaf off course, in an Electrify America when their receptacles are CCS just like EA's plugs? Am I missing something here? They need to spell clearly you must use a Tesla or Nissan adapter respectively is you own one of their vehicles.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

car manufacturers do NOT make adapters, they get them from the 3rd party makers. are they actually sensitive enough to tell? are they just getting kickbacks?

[@Chris_In_Texas]

Great now there will be adapter police patrolling the chargers! 🤦‍♂💩 I wonder if this will be challenged in court, as Magnuson Moss Warranty-Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act would kick in if the other adapter is built to the same standards. What exact standards are the manufactures using vs 3rd party company? There are many reputable companies that make adapters out there. EV Go will need to change their stance as 3) pretty much eliminates anything other than Tesla adapter even from other auto manufactures!

[@Veterans-e2c]

These aftermarket adapters I wouldn’t trust with a 10 ft pole. I’m an electronics engineer. I agree 💯 with everything said. The problem is we got too many dummies and that’s why the 3rd party adapters everywhere on Amazon and people being so cheap on an adapter but will spent 100k on the EV. Makes no sense. Current is the problem like he said we got no idea what or how these aftermarket adapters current kills very dangerous.

[@ScottyStock]

preach it brother

[@serpent77]

I don't know how legal these terms are going to be due to the magnuson moss warranty act. Additionally there may be some application of the laws that allow you to plug third party devices into communication networks (i.e. the law allowing you to buy third party phones and answering machines into the telephone network). Safety should be first, but it should be enforced by the likes of the FTC and UL.

[@scruffy4647]

The authority on testing and approving electrical equipment is UL (Underwriters Laboratory). No offense, but you nor Sandy are not certified to approve electrical equipment. You surely can do a review and give your opinion, but. Do those adapters in your possession have the UL label? The UL label is not perfect but it serves as a basic level of safety.

[@rvnot1one1]

I currently have a Tesla wall charger at my home. I am getting a Rivian soon. What’s the best J1772 adapters should I get for home and on the road?

[@c00lc321]

its odd that they cant find away to prohibit these knock off adapters. I know that MY GE frig wont take any other water filter w/o complaining.. mmmmmmm!!

[@stevegorkowski3246]

When you fill your gas can it should be on the ground but I see people violate this rule all the time. The same with the safety gas cans that have to be modified to have it work for dispensing gas. I hate to say that people don't follow the rules and manufacturers make poorly designed products . SAE will have a test standard to test adapters. Thinking the car manufacturers make the best adapters is flawed but I am sure they sell for the most money! Lawyers get involved in this charging of EVs and they will generate documents to protect them. The other part about homemade EVs ebikes using chargers are not allowed. That makes me laugh. Like they are going to follow the rules! You can tell EVs are becoming main stream lawyers are getting involved!

[@paulhernandez_]

I tried the Amazon Lectron CCS Adapter for Tesla yesterday on an EVGO station and it did not work. Could have been operator error and this was the first time to attempt. Wonder if it will work at EA(?).

[@decimal1815]

Solution? Make Amazon liable for selling unsafe adapters. They have the resources to test everything they sell to make sure it meets electrical standards. All charging stations should support CCS and Type 2 as common standards. Tesla and other companies can include legacy support for their cars as an option.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

i will get you the adapter you get from the car manufacturer is the exact same you will get from the 3rd party. where do you think the manufacturers get theirs.?

[@Stonefeather53]

EU and all governments should regulate for a standard plug for all EV's. We don't have separate roads only for Tesla and only Ford, neither should there be different charging infrastructure.

[@levycabrera7388]

Hi I learn a lot with all the information you provide also I have a question How I can Buy the Ford Ligthning adapter to charge on Tesla station ? Also I see you Video the Tesla have already in place the only problem I have is I’m all way down to Miami Florida I don’t think The Tesla station have the connector or if I have a way to check the Difference the Tesla Only or one to use in my Truck

[@mongo64071]

This is why gas cars are so much easier. This is all a bunch of nonsense. Just hook up, fill, go. No adapters. Those adapters are sol bulky, your whole trunk would be full of them. These stupid charging companies should provide their own adapters instead of making it harder for consumers.

[@suguhanona2323]

But will the manufacturer back up their adapters? Now you got to go and look at the manufacturers contract with their adapters and will they back up if something goes wrong?

[@thnwgrl]

The EVgo responses are great, drtailed, showed they have done research whether it's technical or legislative. that really changes my mind about their company. EA response is typical of EV aka this is how it is and just deal with it

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Why is C/UL labs not getting into the certification of these adapters, they have the resources to qualify these adapters, really why not?

[@TeslaTap]

You did not mention that the Original TeslaTap has a shortened Pilot pin to stop charging if the Tesla Handle in pulled out which is by design because if someone trips over the cable it will unplug rather than break the charging adapter or charging plug on the EV.