EV expert says "you’d have to be CRAZY to buy a Non-Tesla EV in 2024

[@teoengchin]

I believe there's also a segment of EV users who charge 99% at home anyway. For them, the Teala supercharger network would be less of a factor in their purchasing decision

[@christopherj2231]

Yes.

[@luthersembria4092]

Agreed

[@BlackWhiteEagle]

It’s not only the charging network, it’s also the superior software and updates. I regret not getting a Tesla

[@TwelveBravo]

I fall into this segment. And the only reason I don’t regret getting a Tesla is that I prefer to take my wife’s ICE car on roadtrips.

[@markmiller8903]

What factors do they use to make a wrong decision and buy an EV??

[@tombudetti5502]

I have 2 CCS cars. We only fast charge 2-3 times per year. Having an adapter is no big deal. Even if I had a NACS port I would still have a CCS adapter as a back up plan.

[@LuKiSCraft]

I have a NACS port and I don't have a CCS adapter. There's basically zero point. The number of NACS chargers totally dwarfs the number of CCS chargers. I mainly use my car for road trips & probably supercharge ~40 times per year

[@ouethojlkjn]

I was surprised to research that there is no such thing as an adapter for the older and much less common Chademo standard. so if you buy one of the few remaining Japanese who still persevere with it like the Nissan Leaf, you can’t get an adapter.::

[@petesig93]

@@ouethojlkjn I think there IS. I have a set of connector charging tails that enable me to charge at a CHAdeMo charger with my Type 2/CCS car. I am not sure about it working in reverse but I would reckon there must be adaptors.

[@ouethojlkjn]

@@petesig93 Thanks for responding - I was all set to buy an older Nissan [chademo] in the UK assuming there were adapters but all the research I did said "not possible" and in the end I did not buy. I would be very interested to know if such a thing does indeed exist. But I could not uncover it. There are few Chademo adapters in the UK compared to the much more common CCS.

[@Marker-er3ro]

@@ouethojlkjn I don’t think it exists either, something with the communication protocols not being compliant.

[@altoclef6688]

The charging standard argument is an American thing. Here in Europe vehicles are sold with Mennekes connector plus CCS, this goes for Teslas as well. (Nissan Leaf is still sold with ChaDeMo, but that is an exception to the rule).

[@PurpleAlienPlanet]

And there are CCS to ChaDeMo adapters becoming available.

[@acolon8999]

I believe that it won't affect those outside North America, those that charge at home 100% of the time, don't take long distance trips very often and plan to keep the car for over a decade.

[@grahamf695]

I score on 3/4 and nearly on the fourth.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Those outside N America will be using CCS2. NACS is irrelevant to the great majority.

[@yesimhere7285]

This is EXACTLY why I just leased my 2023 Ionic 5 for just two years. The lease allowed me to get the $7500 discount. By limiting the length of the lease to two years I figured there would be enough battery changes that I'd want to take advantage of. The change to NACS, which happened a few months after I started my lease was just the icing on the cake. The only mistake I made was not selling my 2020 Leaf when I was offered $31,000 from the dealership I leased it from. I ended up selling it seven months later for $14,000. Oh well. I did get a much better deal on the Ionic by waiting those seven months so I suspect it's pretty much a wash. I'm certainly looking forward to what will come in June 2025!

[@markmiller8903]

Your biggest mistake is you bought an EV along with all the pollution and danger to your family.

[@packetattack7437]

Hyundai has had a massive spate of issues with the ICCU, causing a 5 amp draw on the starter (non traction) battery. ICCU units are backordered for months. These cars are becoming too computerized for my liking, I don't need all of these bells and whistles in a car. Just be reliable first and foremost.

[@silverdale3207]

Did you own your leaf or lease it, your statement is a little confusing.

[@yesimhere7285]

@@silverdale3207 I had a three year lease and then bought it at the end of the lease. Owned it for about six months before I traded it in on the Ionic. Wish now I had sold it at the end of the lease!

[@rogerphelps9939]

Only in the USA. Elswhere it is CCS. US being left behind yet again.

[@georgemcinnes8668]

All the new charging stations in Australia are the ccs I haven't seen any suggestions that they are changing anytime soon .

[@jimgraham6722]

Agree, CCS2 does support high power AC charging up to as bout 20 KW (240V three phase at 30A). I have a friend who had this installed in his garage for about $2,000. I use a simple 240V 15A GPO which easily handles 3KW charging. Installation cost was $600. It has proved more to han adequate for our needs. The slimline CCS2 AC only connector is quite light, comparable to NACS It's only the DC component that adds weight due to the heavier conductors needed for up to 250KW vs those for 20KW.

[@j.4941]

They won’t. This is a US-only discussion. CCS2 everywhere else isn’t going anywhere.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Yes. CCS is becoming tthe world standard. NACS will become a quaint example of American backwardness.

[@cjs1948]

Since most charging will be done at home anyway, using an adapter when on the road will not be a big deal. All will be fine--at least with charging.

[@mike866]

I think the idea of adapters being a major pain-in-the-ass is a bit overblown. I've had CCS and J1772 adapters for our Tesla for a few years now, and it's really no big deal. You plug in the adapter then plug into the car. Quite easy. As far as susceptibility to damage, I've dropped my adapters on hard concrete and they work just fine. In addition, I've never noticed a drop in charging speed while using an adapter.

[@joejohnson1454]

I agree with mike866. Will all the free or complimentary chargers at the malls, library, etc. be changed?? I don’t think so!!!

[@scottmcshannon6821]

are any of them currently getting any maintenance?@@joejohnson1454

[@ssm445]

Guess pain-in-the-ass is the right term. "Deal breaker" would be a bit overblown. It's like those USB adapters. Just a pain in the ass 😅

[@Hurricanemarty]

Infrastructure anxiety is real

[@777Outrigger]

It maybe fairly easy for me or you, but I can tell you it's not for my wife. She recently took a long out and back road trip in her Model Y where she had to charge once at a Supercharger. The only 2 backups were a couple of Chargepoints along the way. As the day approached, I thought, she needs to learn how to use the CCS to NACS adapter and get the Chargepoint app on her phone. I took her to a Chargepoint charger and had her do the whole process with the app and adapter. I can tell you that she struggled with it, even though she finally did it. The degree of difficulty for using a big adapter maybe only a 2 of 10 for you and me, but for my wife and some other women it's more like a 4. And that means in buying an EV, needing to use a big adapter every time you charge is a deal-killer for her. So no CCS ports for her.

[@markuc]

Again, Americans making statements about the world that's only applicable to the American market, while the American market becomes more protectionist and isolated. He is right about one thing, John's comment is ridiculous.

[@markthomas7279]

Well, you hit the ink. But tell me the black ink. What is the way forward in your opinion?

[@Mrbfgray]

More protectionist and isolated? That opinion lacks historical accuracy.

[@fredrikdahlinwinscher8881]

@@markthomas7279 as he said this only applies in the US, it does not appliy in EU for example. because in EU Tesla is using the CCS and by some miracle can still use all of the Tesla gadgets. So the way forward is that this only applies for US.

[@markuc]

@@phillipbanes5484 except here it's specifically targeted at John because he's only talking about the short sighted American government funding bill which should not have implications for the rest of the world. Tesla is great but there are so many other EV brands that the parochial American exceptionalism does not even allow to exist.

[@ouethojlkjn]

I don’t know, I heard recently that France have put the boot into China that sounds pretty protectionist to me….

[@WestCoastChicano]

I've got a 2023 Chevy Bolt EV and I just read that starting in February GM and Ford owners will have access to Tesla's entire Super Charger network in the USA. Apparently Tesla will start selling adapters to GM and Ford EV owners around that time. Gr8 vid as usual.🚗🇺🇸🔌⚡

[@dmere123ify]

Would it be surprising if many CCS models are still selling in the US in two years time. These companies tend to move at glacial speeds when making significant changes.

[@LuKiSCraft]

@@dmere123ify 100%. I think most OEM's will have NACS by early 2025 though. If not, short their stock lmao

[@mikejansen9798]

Only a portion of Tesla Supercharger network will be available to non-Tesla vehicles and at higher rates. Still pays to go with the leader, IMO.

[@LuKiSCraft]

@@mikejansen9798 True. I think Tesla is already offering a "subscription" for like $11.99/month to get the same rates (per kWh) as Tesla owners

[@TheExumRidge]

John is correct for new cars, in the USA. Someday a used CCS will be a good deal for those with home charging, think second and third cars.

[@Xyquest]

I am buying a CCS Bolt tomorrow because it only has 14000 miles, a brand new battery, and cost $12000 after a $4000 rebate. It's almost a new car for that price! A used Tesla cost way more and will be out of warranty. I'll use the adapter for that deal. My other car is a LEAF with CHADEMO.

[@carrievh8686]

John is talking about the US. Europe: Every charger (including Tesla's) must use CCS2. China: Every charger (including Tesla's) must use GB/T.

[@stevevillanueva2803]

Lease a Polestar or EV of choice that offers the lease option! In 24 - 36 months I'll turn it in for the next iteration which will have better range and faster NACS charging. I won't have to worry about depreciation or obsolescence, and my monthly payment is significantly cheaper than buying. Because EVs are advancing in leaps and bounds on an almost per-fiscal-quarter basis, to me leasing made more sense.

[@HectorGarcia-nb2ld]

Stupid

[@worldtrav72]

Wasn’t the calculated / estimated depreciation really high on the lease?

[@joeltrail8186]

Yes, a lease payment is less than buy-in (assuming a purchase plan less than 7 years, and Tesla offers up to 8 OAC). However, on a lease you get no equity into th vehicle, so that locks you into leasing or buying another vehicle much sooner than most people otherwise would have done. It's like getting a loan with 100% financing or interest and no principle payment. Non-teslas will offer you a "discount" to buy the previously leased EV, but realistically anyone should be able to get that price for the used EV. Given that an average investment of money would get you 6%, which is around the level of price inflation some years, it's a huge net loss. Any car lease is basically burning money unless it provides you tax refund incentives or business expense write-offs. Even then, more efficient expenses (ones that actually hep make you money) could be used instead, so it's not the best alternative. I would need some beneficial connection with the car manufacturer or an edge in how the vehicle improves y imgehomake such a sacrifice. If you lot for such a thing in n EV, there's nobody better than Tesla, so that's another argument why losing still makes no sense.

[@antibureaucrat]

As you noted there will be an adapter and the other automakers will have to adjust/modify their software - as long as the software is good, no problem. I don't see this as a big deal. My smaller and Much Less Expensive GM Bolt will work fine as it does now and it actually has buttons to control a lot of the driver functions rather than having to interface with a giant iPad-like screen while you're driving (STupid in my opinion). I think the main allure for a Tesla is that massive tire wasting acceleration, whereas my Bolt zips around just fine. It is Far from perfect (it is a Chevy) but to base your purchase decision just because of a certain plug (which you don't need at home - you adapter just STAYS in the car) seems rather short sighted. Musk is a good sales/hype person, but it's the head start and enthusiasm of his engineering teams that have made Tesla the dominant player. If you're planning on buying a BEV I would consider my needs, wants and likes for everyday use rather than that plug.

[@chiplangowski3298]

Good post. We own both a Tesla Model Y and a Chevy Bolt. In many ways, the Bolt is the better car. It is the one that we drive the most for around town driving. The Tesla is much, much faster but that is the only area in which it is unquestionably better even though it cost more than twice as much.

[@ouethojlkjn]

I never understood why the bolt was never imported into the UK because I thought it would have sold like hotcakes. Instead I opted for a model three standard range, but have not regretted it. The screen takes about two seconds to get used to. You also have voice commands for everything, so you don’t need to be hunting for a button. But if the bolt had been in the UK for an attractive price, I certainly would’ve got one.

[@chrisborns5972]

This guy makes so much sense. The tech in Tesla vehicles are so much better engineered proven iterated on. Better charging network better software availability in the future even if you don't get it initially. Long pack life's due to battery management far developed beyond competitors. Other cars will not be supported by bankrupt OEMs. Lighter, faster, safer and better software experience.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Actually not. Outside the US we have a wide choice of EVs many of which are superior tto Tesla's offerings. Here in the UK the Tesla charging network is most certainly not the best.

[@bobo-is-great]

I was charging my '23 Kia EV6 Wind and a new tesla owner Mod 3 told me all the gripes he had, bad fit of panels/glass near window pillars, range. The only positive thing was he says was the $189/mo lease price. Told him checkout my new EV6 Wind RWD, looks and rides almost like a Model S and 320 to 365 miles of range, the GT gets about 285 mi range but is FAST and looks awful sharp, in and out.

[@JesseAaronSafir]

Well I recently got a Bolt EUV and I LOVE it except that I have to charge for an hour for every 3 hours of driving on the highway. That's stopping for a meal and it requires some planning. I AM grateful that there are enough free CCS and J1772 chargers that I've paid virtually nothing to drive the first 7000 miles on it. That wouldn't be an option if it had NACS, at least I don't think there would be many free DCFC options. I'm eager to hear about the adapter plan for us CCS owners and I'm not happy about the depreciation except that maybe it'll make acquiring more used CCS cars cheap in the near future.

[@williammann9816]

The headache of fast charging a vehicle in the US with non-Tesla charger are ridiculous. I travel up and down I-95 and much fewer CCS chargers and often times broken or reduced charging or lines due to few chargers.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Completely the opposite in tthe rest of the world where the superior CCS reigns supreme.

[@gowanduff7501]

John's comments are on track for North America. My limited experience in NZ with public charging is that Charge net in Wanganui and Palmerston North, had 50kw chargers with two connectors: one CCS2 and one with Chademo. The owner of the Tesla model Y , who wished to charge at the same time as we were charging our MG4, had to wait a few minutes for us to put in 20 minutes charge before he could connect, as both chargers were in use or the Chademo plugs were not suitable. It seems for practical purposes, NZ and Australia should consider the NACS connector as a global standard. We should make the changes now to be ready for the needs of our grandchildren.

[@martalli]

I agree. At the moment, in North America, Tesla is head and shoulders above the competition. They already have the NACS chargers, and years of experience making EVs. I have a Bolt and a Tesla. GM's 7-8 years of experience with EVs is not in evidence in my 2023 Bolt. Perhaps some manufacturers have great offerings, but they rely on dealers who are at best surly about EVs, have the wrong charger, and have sketchy experience with batteries. Look at the apparently great Hyundais with stories of CDN $50k+ replacement fees after minimal damage. The price is likely wrong, but also the news about these replacement fees seems to stem from dealer inexperience with batteries or unwillingness to understand batteries.

[@ObiePaddles]

We are currently very early in the EV transition so let’s go to this brilliant global standard, even though I have a CCS2 equiped Tesla in NZ.

[@alexj-787]

The global standard is CCS 2 and it is used by Tesla EXCLUSIVELY for most cars around the world now anyway

[@martalli]

@@alexj-787 The difference is that most of the world uses 240 volts, 3 phase AC. The US and Canada are using 120 volt, 2 phase AC. I'm not an electrical engineer, but apparently that's why the number of pins necessary for AC charging is different

[@cosmic_diver]

"Needs of our grandchildren"?, ha ha ha

[@Ranter-cy5dn]

It seems that NACs can't (in the short term) become the standard in Australia - CCS2 here to stay for some time.

[@j.4941]

Don’t worry, the whole discussion is entirely pointless in the rest of the world: It’s CCS2 everywhere except the US and since the US is only the third largest market for EVs, there’s no reason at all to expect all the rest of the world would convert to NACS. The video is misleading in that sense that there is no „secret protocol advantage“ in NACS over CCS: my Tesla in Europe works totally fine with its CCS2-port, all features are there. This is a US-only debate.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Not for some time. CCS2 is becoming the world standard. australia would be nuts to adopt the backwards looking NACS.

[@TheNewMediaoftheDawn]

EV owners typically have home charging/and or own second ICE cars, and would be crazy not to, so road charging is much less important and can be planned ahead for road trips, and of course an adapter is a small price to pay for the occasional road charge….

[@ladyeowyn42]

I’m getting an affordable 2018 with a new battery. By the time the new standard cars are affordable (pre owned) in 2028, I’ll be ready to upgrade. Home charging can meet all my needs until then.

[@jimgraham6722]

Our family have operated both a TM3 and BYD Atto3 for well over a year. They are in many respects very similar: 150KW power, 60KWHr batteries, 400-450km range, 5 seats, CCS2 charging etc. Both are generally speaking very practical vehicles and inservice have been very reliable and dirt cheap to operate. The differences are: TM3 has much better acceleration and handling and faster fast charging rate. However, the Atto has much better ride, a much better range of accessories, much better ergonomics (particularly as set up for right hand drive), much better access (much easier to get in and out), more cabin space, better screen and software and in my view better fit and finish. To boot the Atto is $15,000 less costly. You buy what you need but to my mind the choice is fairly clear.

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

Better screen and software? Care to explain?

[@robsengahay5614]

We have a M3 and test drove the Atto 3. The minuses for us were that the Atto3 didn’t offer one pedal driving and the fixed front head rests were extremely uncomfortable. I haven’t heard any reviewers mention this latter point strangely.

[@Paul-ow9dd]

@@robsengahay5614 Not uncomfortable in our Atto 3. Not perfect, but nothing we would complain about. Whilst one pedal driving would be a good option if BYD could add it via software and have a slider control for driver preference, it's not for everyone, but an option would be nice.

[@jimgraham6722]

@@robsengahay5614I normally drive the Atto using adaptive cruise so it is no pedal driving. As for seating, it is strange. I find the Atto seating very good

[@maxflight777]

easier to get out of ? How old are you ? 😂

[@rmorales1029]

Let’s not forget 85-90% of EV charging will still be done at home where if you currently have a CCS connection you will be fine. I wouldn’t loose sleep over this change to NACS if you currently have a CCS EV.

[@mfurmyr]

Well in Europe it is CCS all the way and CCS is the standard on Tesla cars sold in Europe. Tesla is the winner in one segment, but brands like VW can offer electric cars in several segments. The Id BUZZ van is very popular in Norway. You will see thousands on the road. The 8 seaters from Stellantis and Toyota are popular in Norway. The Ford Transit and Transit Custom are popular cars. The new Renault Master can drive over 400 km on one charge.

[@adamdukat3693]

Hi Sammy! And I've just bought BYD Seal. So far, everywhere it is CCS. And if the future is NACS? Well? Adapter it will be! For me! No any other way! Unless? -- to swap it for Tesla? As for now? --- I am happy with Seal!!! Have a Happy New Year Sam. Adam from Adelaide. Bye. All the best.

[@deanothedinosaur9069]

If the software on my phone is considered ancient in 3 years. What is going to happen to these EV'S after we rv3 to 5 years?

[@davidmaxwaterman]

What software doesn't have the ability to add or remove chargers? Chargers are added to and removed from networks all the time.

[@worldtrav72]

As far as the US is concerned…yep. CCS was a total pain in the ass…I preferred to burn gas rather than try to plug in my CCS PHEV. Now we are on NACS and it just works flawlessly. Once Hyundai/Kia switch to NACS, it’s game on though. They have great EVs.

[@mayhem8166]

They should make the charge ports recessed and have an adapter that fits over the recessed port for chademo, CCS or NACS then it will always be upgradable to whichever standard or country the car goes to. (Although the best part is no part so perhaps that's a bad idea)

[@somecallmetimelderberries432]

Currently driving a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV...was planning to hold onto it for a while, but the CCS charging network sucks! I'm seriously considering moving to a Tesla Model Y...but it looks like I've still got 1-2 years to make that call :)

[@LuKiSCraft]

Yeah and financing rates are starting to drop

[@ladyeowyn42]

I’m getting a 2018 Bolt EV with a brand new battery for $15K that I plan on charging at home and using as a commuter car. We have a hybrid rav4 for camping, skiing, and and road trips. I am replacing a 2006 Honda with NO safety features 😂 and mostly wanted to save money. I am very happy with the car.

[@somecallmetimelderberries432]

I LOVE my Bolt! Bought it new, had it for nearly 7 years (~85k miles driven). It's a great car, I also charge it in my garage (Level 2 setup) and it works great! With the dealer battery replacement, I regularly get 275 miles from a single charge, but I'm a conservative driver (started with a 2014 Fiat 500e that only had 87 miles of range...).. Good luck with your Bolt!@@ladyeowyn42

[@lrg3834]

The man is right. Why would you want to buy a used EV with an outdated charging port arrangement? Believe Sony had the same problem when North America standardised on VHS years back.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Here in the UK and Europe it is the Tesla standard that is outdated and for very good reasons.

[@christover1]

ccs2 in Australia should be fine for adaptors.

[@lowelindroth7053]

Newsflash: there is a world outside of the US - where we use CCS! Even Teslas outside of the US are delivered with CCS contacts in the car. AND, in the US, Tesla is now equipping Superchargers with adapters so that CCS equipped cars can charge there. Really weird to see this video where one is supposed to think that there is totally unthinkable that there could actually be an EV market outside of the US....

[@vjwebster]

My experience too. We have 2 Teslas and they are dirt cheap to run and just mind-blowingly good and reliable. Could never buy a fossilmobile again!

[@praiha]

Outside America, you can get a BYD, KIA, Hyundai, Polestar etc. with 1% financing, while Tesla is still 5.2% or something like that.

[@taelorwatson9822]

I've seen 2022 model y performance for 40k. You can't Beat the amount of range and speed for it. I do wonder when Tesla is going to have a solid state battery. I wish they had a model 3 hatchback in America.

[@i6power30]

Hail the monopoly. Everyone should drive the same car - Tesla and use the same phone - iPhone. All it takes for government to control your life is to order these two companies to hand over their data centers.

[@petergersbach7355]

Good grief! Where does the paranoia stop!

[@i6power30]

@@petergersbach7355 right we should just never question the power to be and trust our government. Might as well live in China

[@jameswilliams5921]

​@@i6power30all monopoly are bad

[@silentjohn80]

Nissan Leaf, which still has Chademo charging plug, is still selling well in Norway. CCS2 has been "the standard" for years over here, but customers doesn't seem to care. There are a lot more CCS chargers than Chademo, and no CCS-to-Chademo adapters, so in my eyes this is much worse than the CCS/NACS in North America. The NACS-to-CCS adapters looks pretty small and easy to use, so I wouldn't see this as a big problem.

[@WQuietHawk]

John Goreham is crazy to make such a broad spectrum statement. My dad is interested in getting an EV for his next car but could never drive a Tesla due to his neuropathy and arthritis. Touch screens are impossible to use for many disabled drivers, stalks are necessary for directionals and wipers for those with limited dexterity, and square wheels are hard (therefore dangerous) to manipulate when backing up, for people with limited coordination. And I don't even think my dad could get into a Tesla if he had to fiddle with a card. But, one thing he could do is plug in any type of connector in his garage, he'd never drive more than 30 miles in a day. This might be representative of only ~7% of the driving population, but that's still millions of cars.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Yes. Makers other than Tesla actually know about ergonomics and what is safe.

[@MichaelLloydMobile]

Yep, John's right. Tesla is so far ahead of other automanufacturers, there's really no contest. Elegant design in engineering is what to look for, and Tesla is on another level compared to other manufacturers.

[@windowman9665]

Do you not have a home charger? Then John is WRONG

[@puzer1]

@@windowman9665 ...you think everyone has access to a home charger?...

[@sunrisejak2709]

What "auto manufacturers" are you referring to? BYD? SAIC? GWM? CHANGAN? NIO? XPENG? WULING? DEEPAL? MG? ORA? If not you don't know the global EV market. The world is not America.

[@stephenr2195]

Sure I have a charger at home, but why buy a car you can't use for trips when you can buy one that can? There is just no reason to limit yourself. @@windowman9665

[@MichaelLloydMobile]

@@sunrisejak2709 Taking all manufacturers throughout the world into account, Tesla has more elegant engineering than all of them. I'm not saying every vehicle should be a Tesla, other manufacturers offer great vehicles. Still Tesla engineering is more refined and advanced.

[@CareyGrayson]

It's called a voluntary recall where automakers offer to change out your old charging cord for a new one but at a 'charge.' See what I did there?

[@janverbanck]

Admitting I'm an EV-dummy for the moment (still a petrolhead): do I understand correctly that not all public charging stations are useable for a specific type of car? So that in fact, I may pull up to a charging station with a near empty battery and simple not be able to connect? If so, how awkward is that...

[@multipolarworldorder]

Home charger kits are the answer for most EV owners I think. MG EV in Australian sell these as an option for $1000 Aus. This includes installation. I know an MG EV buyer.

[@Paul-ow9dd]

$1000. I hope that includes the installation cost. We bought a ZBENY 7kw charger for AUD$550 and the electrician was around AUD$600

[@multipolarworldorder]

@@Paul-ow9dd This includes installation.

[@rocketrollsvlogs7625]

I'm so conflicted. I want a Lyriq or Mustang but i can get a Model Y for over 15k less in my state. I think I'll get the Tesla now, and ride it out for the solid state/nacs equipped others in 2025.

[@walkerdarin2003]

My universal wall connector is getting installed on Tuesday. Maybe snag a CCS EV for discount late 2024 😆. My daily is a 2022 M3 LFP. I call it my forever car 🤞

[@rbhebron]

just curious.. instead of having a cable do the charging for any EV, why not have a universal wireless charging, which is easier to implement.. no need for allocating cable lenghts or charging port positions..

[@baldisaerodynamic9692]

wireless charging will cost the consumer MORE. the tech as to be installed in the vehicle, as well as home, and wireless charging has a higher loss of power transfer compared to a wall outlet.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Well, if you are happy to waste 50% of the charging power then that's fine. For most people that is not fine and contactless charging happens to be very inefficient.

[@jstar1000]

I've been saying that for several years myself but that is my opinion, you do what you want.

[@loganboyd]

They're right, just wait till 2025 when NACS ports are in the other EVs, it will make your life so much easier. My R1S reservation is ready to go but I won't pull the trigger on it until NACS is in place. 7.5 years of Tesla ownership (X, 3, Y, S) and lots of road trips. I'm not doing it without NACS and I don't want to mess with adapters.

[@suerasmussen9982]

Merry Christmas Sam from California.

[@Madonsteamrailways]

Merry Christmas and happy New Year!!

[@AjitMD]

Buying a Tesla is a low stress decision for most folks, especially in USA. The car has navigation fully integrated with the Supercharger Network… plus a lot of destination charger. Very efficient in electric use. The UI is simple and easy to use and software upgrades are smooth. Quality is improved and is now very reliable. Negative is the spartan interiors.

[@KP-xi4bj]

I actually prefer the simple interior. I hate interiors where there are 20 different buttons.

[@fearsomebeard4290]

My beautiful simple spartan Tesla interior is the best car interior I’ve ever owned in my 35 years of driving. Better than any interior I’ve had in my 2 Mercedes, 2 BMWs, 3 Volvos, 3 Lexus , 3 Toyotas, 3 Fords and 1 Chevrolet.

[@brendanpells912]

Not to mention Tesla having the highest accident rate of any brand in the US over the last year.

[@KP-xi4bj]

@@phillipbanes5484Er .. no! With a touchscreen all controls are there. With 20 different buttons everywhere you'd be looking for them. LOL

[@KP-xi4bj]

@@brendanpells912 It's the driver and not the car itself. Duh!

[@bigwhimsy2236]

Someone we never heard of, said something wrong, got it!

[@MarsOzzie]

Not possible in Australia.

[@antoinepageau8336]

100% agree go NACS or go home. Unless all you do is get groceries with your car and plan to keep it 20 years. We’re on 84,000 km with our 2022 model 3 and I can’t imagine having lived with anything else, at least here in Canada.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Completely the opposite in Europe. Here we have CCS2, contactless payment, no cartel, no apps, no accounts and lots of providers tthat will compette on price. You really do not know whatt you are missing.

[@antoinepageau8336]

@@rogerphelps9939 In a perfect world we would all be using one standard, in the end though the NACS is by far the more elegant solution.

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@antoinepageau8336 Wrong. For starters CCS2 incorporates 3 phase Level 2 charging which is very important in Europe. NACS is a Tesla run cartel where you have silly accounts and apps. CCS is far more elegant. You just pay using contactless just like people currently pay for petrol, diesel and just about anything else. CCS2 is open to anyone to set up a charging business and nobody's permission, least of all Tesla's is required. That is why in Europe we have dozens of charging providers that will be competing on price, not the measly one or two that you have in N America. CCS2 is set to become the world standard and NACS is confined to the N American backwater.

[@antoinepageau8336]

@@rogerphelps9939 Clearly you don't live in a cold climate. Try using a CCS cable below -20c. My friends wife wasn't able to plug their Ionic 5 because the cable was too stiff. Un-elegant.

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@antoinepageau8336 Really? I doubt that, anyway designing a cable to handle low temperatures is not rocket science given the clear superiority of CCS2. It is not becoming the world standard for no reason.

[@necaquino]

with increasing production and purchase of non-tesla evs, there will be a more than viable adaptor and software add on set up to cater to demand. with my MG4, I have only had to charge publicly once since my oct 2024 purchase. for me, it is a non issue and totally understand if this is an issue with other users.

[@vulpixelful]

There's no point in making the choice based on charging on the road if you charge at home most of the time. The few times you need to charge on the road, an adapter (and the Tesla app if it's a Supercharger) will do. Cars are depreciating assets, who cares about resale value? As long as your downpayment is strong, you'll get as ahead of the depreciation curve you're gonna get with EVs.

[@Creelyblades]

I think this guy is right on. certainly the charger network is a big piece, but it’s not the only piece. A lot of legacy manufacturers just don’t have service departments that can handle the EV’s that they sell. Tesla also has the best software and really EV’s are as much as software packages as they are cars.

[@Neofolis]

In the UK cars use CCS and I know some of the Tesla Superchargers are open to other vehicles, so I'm assuming UK Teslas use CCS, because I know other brands are using their chargers. If this is the case they really need to settle on a global standard, otherwise it's just another thing to put people off switching to EV's. Either knowing that the standard could change and reduce the value of their car or knowing that they can't take their car to some countries, either will be very off putting for a lot of people.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Here in the UK and Europe CCS2 is he mandated charging standard. Contactless payment must also be offered. When you look into it NACS is just a cosy Tesla led cartel.

[@Optimus19]

True for USA. Also how many shares does he have in Tesla?

[@1fly2fly24]

Need a hybrd that has an electric drivetrain, gas generator to power the drivetrain, and battery to start the generator only.

[@dyworking]

Yes, this will definitely push many buyers to Tesla in the year 2024 and 2025. EV sales will drop for Honda, Acura, VW, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, GM, Nissan, Mercedes and BMW. Good news as this shift in buyers will counteract Teslas lower sales from lost EV tax credits.

[@doug.horne2378]

I own a Tesla. I live in Australia. I would hate to be charging away from home in anything but my Tesla. The non Tesla charging system here in Oz is so hit and miss I would hate to have to depend on it.

[@davidallen6653]

Chademo is still round, hard to find, but most cars that are on that connector are meant to be city cars not road trippers like most current EVs. A Tesla adapter on most anywhere I'd travel would be fine. Currently CCS locations are fine, just like to see more of them, With everything going to NACS (SAE J3400), the adapter back to CCS I also think would be relevant for many years to come. If Tesla replaced the current CCS locations in EA's footprint or popped one up close by a NACS car would be fine. If my CCS car can charge in a CCS location and it's working, I wouldn't want be a part of the annoyed Tesla owners with the current CCS blocking and slow charging Shens. In the near future, charging at home or work Level 2 would be most of the charging for me. I would like to be able to charge at any of the 3 Tesla stations on 93 between Phoenix and Las Vegas as an option if the one EA in Kingman ever dies. It's like an iPhone, I will get it charged new or old cable. Chademo would be like the 30pin connector, Lightning as CCS and USB-C is the NACS

[@DanielWilliams-l7n]

The problem is the charging network or lack thereof. Outside of Tesla the ability to charge on the road is a real question. When you get to the charger there is a real question that it will even be working.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Not a problem in Europe. It is CCS2 all the way.

[@daveret1144]

There is no doubt that Tesla EVs are the best in the world for their price and their sales figures show that. However for many people they are very expensive and those people would consider cheaper options.

[@John-FourteenSix]

Some people prefer to purchase an EV outright. 50K (USD EUR or GBP) is a lot of money. There are good EV’s available at less than half the price and so Tesla isn’t the best on price for all EV’s everywhere - Yet!

[@SuperAti15]

@roro4787Yeah sure 😂

[@johncahill3644]

Model 3 today in the US goes for $32k after tax break. The average selling price of a car in America is more like $47k. So why do people keep thinking Tesla’s are “very expensive”?

[@SuperAti15]

@@johncahill3644 Uh. Maybe becouse america isn't whole world? It is best money can buy in EV sector, but: 1) In Europe you can buy EVs that are 1/3 cheaper after incentives than TM3SR+ - like Renault e-Megane or Citroen e-C4. Sure they are inferior in range / charging speed or size - but differences between them and SR+ are not mind blowing so to speak, and 15k USD out of pocket price differnece is still huge. Especially in high interest rates world of today. 2) Cars I mentioned above have proper service chain across EU with at least one official service in every EU ... town. With Teslas people are travelling up to 500-600 miles to Berlin to have service done becouse there's like literally ONE service in say 40 million country of Poland and it's fully booked like a year in advance. Same with bodywork damage works. Theres "nothing better" than paying 45k USD equivalent off your pocket for a cheapest tesla, have somebody run into it on a parking lot and loose a car for half a year becouse there's ONE service in 40 million country. 3) Insurance price difference at least reflects car price difference if not worse 4) Sadly - You can still buy a simillary sized petrol car in EU, for half TM3 SR+ price, half the insurance price, same petrol/electricity cost (we have expensive electricity even at home), 500 mile range with 5min refill, and only 2x higher running service costs, with service chain everywhere including on your ountie's summer countryside town by the river. 💁‍♂️ And point 4 is still a choice of 80+% of EU citizens.

[@Chainyanker007]

@roro4787- The word ‘better’ has different meanings. Teslas have a ‘better’ safety component than any other car.

[@AaronHope_Sow]

It's like anything else in life. If you can't afford to wait, you have to go with what's available now. I personally try to only buy used, so realistically I'm probably four years from getting into a used non Tesla EV equipped with a NACS charging port. But CCS won't go away overnight. There will be a lag in development of non Tesla charging infrastructure. The manufacturers are only getting started on it and will want to get the most out of their current CCS investment. I wouldn't be surprised if they look for a way to Retrofit their existing chargers as well. So realistically the switch over could take five years at best ten at worst.

[@KokowaSarunoKuniDesu]

Anybody with a home charger who does the bulk of their charging at home, has a bit more latitude. And they can buy cheap secondhand EVs for the next 10 years!

[@davelloyd-]

until charging becomes as easy as a fuel bowser - rock up to any brand, plug in, tap n go credit card, then EV's can't really become mainstream imho. Ultimately, though, couldn't you just swap out the connector thing in the car? Kinda like swapping the plug on your trailer from round to rectangle to match the car, but changing the car end instead. Surely it's just a bunch of wiring and circuit boards - it's not like a fuel tank change would be in an ICE vehicle

[@rogerphelps9939]

The rocking up, plugging in, tap n go, any brand are all provided with CCS2 here in tthe UK and in Europe. That is why NACS is anachronistic.

[@NaumRusomarov]

makes sense, but tesla evs are still quite costly and not everyone needs to use fast chargers.

[@peterf03]

Don't overlook Europe inc. UK. CCS seems to be the only plug on newer V3 Tesla superchargers. Tesla made us drivers of older Model X & S pay (Ouch!) for a CCS upgrade including adapter, to be able to use V3 Superchargers. Older Tesla superchargers seem to have both CCS and Tesla's 150kW version of Mennekes type 2 plugs. 3rd party networks (that I am so grateful not to have to faff around with) and home chargers have a mixture of higher power rated (Tesla version?) Mennekes Type 2 plugs or sockets, lower powered Mennekes Type 2 plugs or sockets and CHAdeMO plugs or sockets, depending on the age of the charger and also, the EV manufacturer and model.

[@rogerphelps9939]

CCS2 is mandated for all new EVs and rapid chargers, even for Teslas.

[@steveritter6545]

Yeah, um, can't you just use an adapter? Sticking an adapter on is a huge hassle? No., it's not. An adapter slows down the charging? No, certainly not significantly. This all just seems kind of stupid.

[@justinr9753]

2 plugs means they aren't ready for the masses, yet

[@BarrySafran-c6k]

Sorry. Americans aren’t that stupid. In my lifetime we have changed from two to three prong grounded plugs, analog to digital radio/tv, standard to automatic transmission and loads of other things. People will use adaptors. In fact the vaunted Tesla needs an adaptor to use J type 2 sources. I use it all the time. In fact the adaptor came with my T 3. Yawn yawn.

[@timmo971]

It’s just a plug. Why can’t it be upgraded in the future? New part, $80 (or whatever) new life for car.

[@Paul-ow9dd]

Even if it cost 2 or $300 an upgrade is the simple answer.

[@johnmansfield3317]

Would never buy a Tesla. Too many things stuck forever in beta and not working. Basic things like windscreen wipers and parking sensors don’t work. Now they’ve removed indicator stalks. Crazy. Makes the car unbuyable. As for charging, don;t think I would ever use a public charger. 99% of my driving is journeys of 30 miles or less.

[@EvEvangelist]

One of you is wrong about CCS : the US gov has mandated that all funded chargers must have a NACS and CCS to qualify for funding.

[@ih2898]

I so agree. This is why we are waiting for the North American release of the M3 Highlander. We figured in 10 years, you better have an adaptor, and hope you can find parts for your home charger.

[@vulpixelful]

With your home charger you can just switch out the connector. Your home charger doesn't have a lot of parts, it just routes the power. It isn't what really charges the car. The charger is in the vehicle.

[@TwelveBravo]

I fall into the bucket of people that slightly regret not getting a Tesla. I bought my Polestar 2 back in March of 2023, and unwisely not even considering the charging standard being an issue. I thought they would just build more CCS chargers, and there would be mainly two standards (Tesla and CCS). The only reason I don’t fully regret it, is if I’m taking a longer roadtrip, say 500 miles, I prefer to take my wife’s SUV. Just so much faster using ICE for the 1,000 plus mile road trips. But I know the depreciation will hit it hard, but the car suits my needs like 99% of the time because I charge at home. The only issue is when I go to get a new car, my car won’t be worth nearly as much as I thought it would be. Oh well, early adopter penalty.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Move to Europe and then you will have no trouble finding CCS2 chargers. Here NACS is outmoded and new chargers mustt be CCS2.

[@xaionik]

Cars are not a monetary investment. Looking for high market value is a waste of time unless you truly have a unique model. Most cars depreciate and adapters exist so these cars will remain on the road for a decade.

[@benjones5799]

He is quite correct

[@rovert1284]

Only thing is I was so unimpressed with the Model Y I decided one final ICE.

[@DileepaRanawake]

Pretty much agree.

[@mattchristie1810]

If a massive market like domestic car ownership is so warped that only one brand is worth having, then you have a messed up market. This demonstrates exactly why there’s so many people who refuse to jump into the EV market. It’s still an early adopter’s game and will be for another 10 years. A game for the rich and/or foolish.

[@kckfen]

Dont know about US, but in Asean, EVs price are almost as close as ICE hybrid car, so in term of maintenance i think EV will be better and cheaper. Hybrid also having the same issue in second hand value, they drop alot after 8 yrs. So to me at least in Asean, owning a hybrid in next 2 to 3 yrs many not be so feasible, when EV is getting cheaper and cheaper in Asean country, we have Neta, BYD, Chery, and many more beside Tesla, so i think EV will be the main stream in 2025 onward... not becoz we want to go green, but becoz it s going to be more economical to run.

[@ramblerandy2397]

Enough about NACS in North America. It needs to be standardised in UK/Europe, China, and the rest of the world.

[@bam111965]

Love the lease on my Lucid Air. Every EV sold today will be very outdated 3 years from now. Charging ports and protocols are the least important change which will be occur. There are far better EVs out there than every Tesla. I don't ever see myself buying another Tesla.

[@keithmitchell6240]

It’s gonna be a huge bummer when I show up with my Tesla at Tesla superchargers and have to wait behind a Ford or a Chevy. It’s literally the reason I bought a Tesla.

[@vincentcliong]

Saya tinggal di Indonesia. Saat ini adik saya memiliki Hyundai Ionic 5. Pemikiran nya, cari saja mobil elektrik yg banyak dijalan dan dibuat lokal di Indonesia. Tesla di Indonesia kurang laku karena pajak bea masuk besar.

[@jcgraphics3d]

The Android Auto / Apple CarPlay analogy is a bit funny since Tesla does not basically support these. (I do use Android Auto on my Tesla using the Tes-AA app)

[@baldisaerodynamic9692]

as a tesla owner, and before it a car with AA and ACP, i HATED AA and ACP, both worked like crap and cut out a lot, even in rental cars i dont care for it. i do not miss ACP one bit, in a tesla, its utterly useless to even have it.

[@jcgraphics3d]

@@baldisaerodynamic9692 my experience with Android Auto in my Honda Clarity is excellent, and never disconnects (it is USB, not wireless). I can access many more apps than Tesla natively. Google Maps navigation still has a number of advantages over Tesla navigation in a number of areas (though Tesla has made some improvements lately). Of course, the Tesla navigation still has the advantage of preconditioning for Super Chargers.

[@fly4fun24]

He is Right

[@gabrielvazquez81]

In the US I think he's right. However it's based on how you drive. If you routinely have to make long trips I would not buy anything but a Tesla. In the US Tesla is the only reliable charging infrastructure. Lastly, I've owned 3 Teslas and a Chevy bolt, owning a bolt was nightmare due to unreliable charging networks.

[@dorinvesa1109]

Therefore this thursday i will pickup my new Prius Prime!I'm just crazy!😉🤣

[@willtwain1383]

I think the depreciation factor is something to consider. This may delay my purchase by a few months. Regardless, Musk is not on my list of new EVs. I will never buy a Tesla.

[@supercadet111]

To avoid the osbourne effect, other manufacturers should offer a free NACS retrofit upfront, when it becomes available, for all 2024 models. The vehicles will continue selling, and the 2024 customers will have adapters that they could sell/trade in for some additional value/incentive.

[@gregpointing7228]

Isn’t China the biggest producer of EV’s. What standard of charging do they use? Surely this is just a US centric view of the world.

[@rogerphelps9939]

It is. China uses its own standard but elsewhere CCS2 is becoming the world standard.

[@litestuffllc7249]

It probably is generally correct if for no other reason that the non Tesla charging networks are very unreliable, often costly, or difficult to use. However some makers have made deals with Tesla to use their network. Seconly quality control issues plauge nearly all the Chinese EVs; very poor. People confuse this with the idea that every one is bad; no it means they do a very poor job of filtering out the lemons and the failures can be life threatening like your airbags don't work. So that leaves a limited list of European and US EVs that would compete functionally with a Tesla; many do not. .Leaving a handfult have have good quality, and good networks.

[@Notlib]

Yet throughout Europe Teslas since the Model 3 was launched 5 years ago have CCS sockets. Tesla Superchargers have two cables as Tesla added CCS universally. Your report is only for North America. It’s sad that at the start of the EV revolution 2 continents will have two different systems - it’s DVDs all over again…

[@MaxMustermann-vu8ir]

While it's regrettable that the US tries to kill the CCS standard (that is dominating in Europe and forced Tesla to build cars with CCS for the European market) in a protectionist move, like many other commentators, I don't think it will be a big deal as most EV users charge their cars at home 99% of the time.

[@wilsonng7464]

No way ill never ever buy a Tesla unless they have a dashboard this is the reason why i brought a BYD Atto 3 xause they have a desplay right in rfont of my steering

[@PatriciaHanson-v2m]

I may not be an EV expert, but I have a little different perspective. My quote would be:" you'd have to be crazy to buy a Tesla in 2024." The supercharger network has become irrelevant. Everyone will be using it.

[@GRANTTRAUBable]

i’m quite on the fence here. Kia has an EV9 for me next week. Or i can wait for a Cybertruck. better seating in EV9 and more spacious interior. Cybertruck appears to have better tech, drive, performance Thoughts here?

[@danielkierannevin9081]

I had the "pleasure" of test driving a cybertruck. Its a farce. I can't describe how ridiculous it looks in person, videos don't don't do it justice. If you love wasting money on mad max esque polygons with sharp edges, vastly overpriced, be my guest. Otherwise buy ANYTHING else.

[@mykeljewell]

He’s right of course but that’s not why we do anything. As humans we crave variety and form and novelty. Is Tesla the no brainer ev? Yup. But if all we did is buy the “right” thing then Alfa, Ferrari, muscle cars, ford hot hatches etc all would never exist. And where is the fun in that?

[@brilanto]

Where is the fun in "Tesla is boring", "Tesla has bad quality", "Tesla is ugly", "I am better than you and have to stand out" etc.?

[@mykeljewell]

@@brilanto I literally said none of those things. I think Tesla made an amazing product (all of their models) but especially the 3 & the Y (two of the greatest selling vehicles of all time) are not the most exciting vehicles. That’s fine. They’re no brainers because they are good well designed and built cars that serve their purpose excellently. But that’s not the only thing we as humans seek. Both statements can be true.