EV owners "driven" back to gas: is it fair?

[@robmiller5721]

Thanks!

[@EforElectric]

Thank you for your continuous support. You are awesome

[@rp9674]

I'm skeptical of KZbin comments that say they're going back to gas, I think a lot of them mean I've never had an EV

[@balkanleopard9728]

I've had an ev for 4 years and I'm heading up to 60,000 kms - so I think I know a bit about the ev driving experience. My wife absolutely hates the car - but in reality the car is only one part of the problem. The catastrophe is the supporting public charging network. It is a totally disjointed piece of semi-functioning rubbish. I can count the number of issue free public charging sessions on the fingers of one hand - and the situation is getting worse. I am very seriously thinking of going back to gas because ev motoring sucks and the depreciated value of my car only leaves me that option. So, be skeptical if you must, but I know the feeling.

[@rp9674]

you should sell your EV so someone else can enjoy it, buy a gas car.

[@1987fasterthanme]

I will NEVER go back to gas

[@1987fasterthanme]

I have 1 tesla model 3 2024, 1 Ioniq 5 2022 and 1 nissan leaf 2014.

[@rp9674]

I have three EVs, 6 years, it's good and it's getting better

[@balkanleopard9728]

@@rp9674 I don't know where you live so I'll have to accept your word that ev motoring is getting better where you are - but I think 3 ev's in 6 years tells a story. I simply could not afford 3 cars in 6 years and I think I'm pretty typical of the greater motoring public. And your observation that ev motoring is getting better goes against everything I have experienced in 4 years+ of ev ownership. The public charging network is a disjointed mess - now crowded out by Tesla owners and getting really expensive. My wife hates our ev and wants to go back to ICE. As much as I supported ev motoring in the past, I know where she's coming from.

[@rp9674]

3 EVs, a 3yr old Fiat 500e & bmw i3 in 2018 $8K / $22K, new 23 Chevy bolt $20.500. I don't know what the accusation is, I'm rich, elite?

[@eji9617]

We dumped our Tesla M3 and went Hybrid. We are soooo much happier as a family. We get the luxury of driving around town for errands on all-electric and if we are out longer than expected, the gasoline engine kicks in and there is ZERO charging-anxiety, ZERO worry about making it home on a low battery.

[@PianoBoy99]

So I can't speak to the rest of the country, but in the northeast, we are in a good place. Infrastructure seems much more plentiful (especially if you have access to Tesla network), and # of cars isn't as dense as in California. But I do tell everyone that asks me, if you can't afford or don't have a way to get an in-home charger (L2), do not buy an electric car. The fast-charging infrastructure isn't designed for local driving, and there isn't enough workplace charging. For road-tripping in new York, NJ, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Massachusetts areas, I have found the charging to be plentiful and generally reliable. But I also tell people never plan to roll into a charging site with < 10% charge. I generally practice 25% to 80% religiously. I stop a few more times, spend a little longer at charging sites, but if I have to relocate to a different charging site I can easily do so.

[@rp9674]

Southern California we have both more Chargers and a lot more EVS, lots of chargers near where I work, but I do almost all my charging at home

[@rp9674]

Kyle or Tom talked to someone who had bought four expensive EVS for his family said he was going back to gas because charging was too much of a pain. Asked why he was public charging when he had chargers at home: it's free charging that's why I bought the vehicles. There will always be a few like that

[@balkanleopard9728]

Public charging is not a pain - it's an absolute disaster - or at least it is in Europe. I dread driving out of range of my home charger. So, yes, after four odd years of dreadful ev motoring I'm really seriously thinking of going back to gas. It's all I can afford due to the catastrophic depreciation of my ev.

[@rp9674]

​@@balkanleopard9728sell your EV

[@justanotherguy7798]

The lines at public chargers are caused by the free charging manufacturers are giving to buyers to give them the excuse to try one.

[@davep2945]

The truth is that gas is still more convenient for most people, most of the time. That doesn't mean there isn't a use case for EV's and many people will be able to get by with them without issue. But the problem with being an advocate is you start to lose sight of the bigger picture. You want your vision to be the only one everyone else sees and forget that your situation isn't the only situation or even the most typical situation. Of the two people I know who have EV's they both love them as their daily drivers around town and for short trips up to roughly two hundred miles. But both also own large gas SUV's because they tow a lot and they go on longer trips where charging is inconvenient for them. Not because chargers aren't available but because they don't want to stop multiple times or for long periods until they are ready to eat or do something else that will pass the time while they are charging. People's personalities are different and you do not get to dictate what everyone else should do or how they should feel about charging wait times. And the charge at home argument as if everyone owns a home is foolish. Sure, if you want an EV and you own a home then home charging is great. But, remember, that's not everyone. When battery tech gets to the point where real world (not best case scenarios) 500 to 700 miles ranges are possible from affordable vehicles that are also light enough to not destroy brakes, wheel bearing and tires every 30,000 miles then you will see widespread EV adoption. In other words, when the average Joe or Jane is not inconvenienced by their car, even if only in their mind, then people will buy them en masse. Until then pretending some save the planet plea is going to sway people is wasting your time.

[@ianelliott229]

Infrastructure is so poor in the UK - and electricity at public chargers is £0.5 - £0.8! More expensive than petrol per mile on top of EVs costing so much more than ICE

[@solentbum]

There are more chargers in the UK than Petrol pumps.

[@dereks4228]

And an EV will need to take up a charger spot 10x longer than a gas car at a pump ​@@solentbum

[@solentbum]

@@dereks4228 The vast majority of charging is carried out on non public systems. meanwhile the public rapid chargers are quickly increasing in number and power, The latest ones can refuel a compatible car in the time it takes the driver to visit the toilets or buy a coffee. When you visit a motorway service area do you stop off for the toilets and buy a coffee , etc, before you then drive across to the petrol pumps? Surely the correct measurement of refuelling time should be the time from leaving the main road to the time you regain it, what ever the power system.

[@dereks4228]

@@solentbum Yet 60% of the public UK chargers don't exceed 8 KW. At that rate, a Tesla model Y will take over 2 hours to charge from 20% to 45%. That's a lot of ☕ and trips to the 🚽

[@solentbum]

@@dereks4228 With an ICE car the driver is restricted to using the existing refuelling system, on a motorway that is to use the overpriced service areas, sometimes even queueing for a short time whilst not being able to leave the car to itself. If a toilet/ other break is needed that must be a separate operation to refuelling, so more time used. What was the range of the ICE when it started the journey, did it have a full tank, or did you make a visit to another fuelling stop to top up before the journey, all extra time. The mindset for an EV is different. I am presuming that the driver has a home charger, (some 50% 0f households). Because the car was plugged in overnight, the journey starts with a full 'tank'. So depending on model 2-300 miles of carefree , and cheap motoring without the need to refuel. Apparently that covers some 90% of users. For longer journeys, once the 'tank' drops to the reserve level, the driver simply pops into a service area, and plugs into a rapid charger. The time at the rapid charger may be used for other activities, there is no requirement to hold the fuelling nozzle as there is with petrol/diesel pumps. When refuelled the payment is by simple contactless credit card. No need for apps or RFID cards unless you want to, there are ocassional discounts for using them but they are not esential. With your example Tesla, at a Tesla charger, there is no need even for a credit card, the process of billing is automatic. As for using slow 8Kw chargers, they are great for a top up as you shop, go to the cinema, the gym, Restaurant , etc. can you do that with an ICE? They are especially useful at hotels, where the car is going to sit for hours overnight as the battery is refuelled for the following day. No need for that early morning dash to the petrol station before getting back on the road! Add onto that the possible use of virtually any 13 amp socket for a slow top up charge. For those without a home charger things are getting better also, many councils are installing low power charge points at lampposts and in car parks, others are permitting cross pavment solutions . There are Grants available to both the business and private sector for charger installations.. Meanwhile the driving range of newer EVs has increased considerably, so less need to refuel away from home /base. Ask your self, when was the last journey that you did of over 250 miles? How many times in a year. How many miles do you drive in a year, and at what cost?

[@ztutorials1257]

I just had a vacation in the Northeast US (Detroit, Niagra Falls (both Canadian and US sides), upstate New York, Vermont. Every hotel had available charging stations. I was surprised at how many charging stations were available. I haven't seen charging stations at hotels like this in California.

[@rp9674]

People waiting in long lines at Costco to save a few cents on gas and all these advertisements for mechanical Insurance tell you a lot

[@neilellison8984]

Gas cars are not for me had Electric cars for over 10 years and there is no going back

[@the_lost_navigator7266]

I think range extender EVs are a great middle ground. Have a small 50 to 80 mile battery and a REX. Do all you local driving on electric and if you beed to go further afield, use a small amount of gas to push on to a convenient charger or destination. So many people (even here in the comments) say they only use their EV locally and use a gas car for longer trips.

[@antonio6736]

When a dealership sells you electric car they should give you a charger and installed in your garage or outside your garage yep try to make it easy for the people

[@guythall]

Exactly what Ford has announced.

[@KillroyX99]

There’s an apartment complex in my area that installed 40 charge stations. It’s gonna take them at least a decade to fill up

[@jlamm2223443]

I would love to see small EVs with a "suitcase" battery add on that will allow you to get 10 miles of range up in your apartment.

[@muskrat3291]

I travel all over the Southwest and only had to wait in line twice, once for 7 minutes and another time for about 5 minutes. Most of the time I am the only person charging. I am seeing more and more new locations opening up including areas where there were no chargers previously. I will never go back to gas.

[@stevensauvageau8827]

My 2020 chevy bolt with 33K miles just decided to only charge to 30%. Took it in, they said 3 battery modules bad. Yes, it's under warranty, but this does not give me assurance that it will be reliable after the warranty.

[@airdad5383]

Why do you need an app or specific company card to charge your EV? Payment should be just like buying gas with a credit card or debit card, I don't want to be stuck at the charger because my phone died or I have to download another app.

[@watchchimp3102]

I just don't think an EV is for everyone at this point. Not everyone has the technology figured out yet. To me, EV makes the most sense for urban driver, home owners with more than one car. Probably not a good choice for people in apartments or people who drive extended road trips. The industry is probably doing itself a disservice by trying to push it, too fast, too soon!

[@rp9674]

It started with a BS survey everyone quoted it and a lot of people are playing along.

[@BarryObaminable]

It makes no sense why apartments dont put them in. Charge people 2x their electric rate.

[@makceg]

I got my MS 2018 brand new for 105k, drove 75k miles and sold it this year for 24k cash. never ever back to ev, it is fun, but it is so depreciation asset, it eats all gas price economy

[@muskrat3291]

All new technology depreciates heavily at first. An automobile in 1909 was around $1,000, by the 1920s they were under $300. The first computers, cell phones, smart TV, etc. all depreciated heavily. You buy it because you want to own it, not as an investment. If you want to invest in new technology, buy the stock not the product. As EVs become more mainstream they will depreciate just like an other car.

[@makceg]

@@muskrat3291 Agree in all points, but what i realized that cost of fun with MS wasn't so valueble as $75k. It is just a car with different drivetrain, FSD is something new, but I prefer drive myself. In next 20 years i'l be in a Corvette age, so I do not see next EV in my life

[@dereks4228]

We should stop buying EVs to save Ford. They have lost $100,000 on every EV sold. Ouch

[@EwanM11]

You bought your EV when they were expensive. If you bought a Model s now it would be $76k, almost 30k cheaper and better in every way. That's why the depreciation on your car was so bad. The depreciation going forward won't be nearly so bad because model's won't be selling new for 46k new in six years time, they'll probably be about the same as they are now.

[@eji9617]

Totally agree, makceg. When you sit down and do the long-term math, EV's are a losing investment. Sure, you might save $800-1200/year on gas BUT...after 10 years when your battery skate falls below 50% charging capacity and you have to replace the entire skate, that $12,000 you saved goes out the window when you have to drop $15 - $20,000 for the replacement battery. Plus, you are actually on the losing end as you have to cough up $8000 more to boot. EV's are a very niche product that will take a LONGGGG TIMEEE to see mass adoption.

[@apterachallenge]

The gamechanger is coming in 2025: an EV efficient enough to gain significant daily mileage from its solar panels, where the vehicle itself IS the charging infrastructure. Plus it will be affordable. You are going to see Aptera's everywhere when they get enough capital investment to ramp to full production. Their existing 50k pre-orders will be a drop in the bucket compared to what they are going to get when people understand what a revolution this car is.

[@eji9617]

Ex-Tesla owner here...we sold our M3 and went to a hybrid. MUCH HAPPIER!! Much less stressed. We no longer feel like we are a slave to the car. We are a busy family and constantly catering to the needs of the car was making us miserable. It will be a long time before we ever look at another all-electric car.

[@EforElectric]

It's very unfortunate to hear feedback like this but I totally understand

[@dmandman9]

I don’t own an EV. But I pay attention to what’s out there. And in my city (Tallahassee, Florida) I’ve NEVER seen a line at a fast charger. There is always at least one available charger. Many times they’re all empty. But I guess it differs by region or city.

[@DanDeGaston]

EVs are more convenient as your daily driver, Gas cars are more convenient for road trips. So I rent a gas car for road trips now, I love my Tesla for a daily driver, looking forward to getting a Gravity for my wife 8-9 months. ;)

[@countdebassi]

Less than 1 year in with my EV and it's been in the shop for 3 different times totaling 4 months. 3 of these months while waiting for an engineer to replace the battery + tray ($63k cost for a $45k car) to be safe and drivable again. Love this car and I am glad it’s a lease. I will never buy or any other EV. Way too costly to own versus ICE. Nothing in an ICE will cost me as much as replacing the batteries on the EV.

[@dougsheldon5560]

Be glad you don't have hydrogen.

[@nroose]

I mean, if you compare the number of people who are switching from EV to ICE to the number of people who are switching from ICE to EV, you will get the right picture.

[@robmiller5721]

I agree with charging for apartments and condos. It makes more sense for new buildings; it's much more complicated, especially for older buildings, to retrofit; in CA, as you recall, Alex, those things are infinitely harder given the over-regulation.

[@BarryObaminable]

I don't believe it at all. Only a dope would go back. Or someone who can't charge at home and needs to go 250 miles a day

[@barrytibbetts8457]

Don't have any issues you are talking about have had electric car for 10 years.Travel up and down the I 5 corridor and all around locally.

[@rp9674]

You must love to hear the BS stories about EVs aren't ready for primetime

[@CoderGuyMan]

I'm getting ready to go on a very long road trip (over 3800 miles) and I opted to use an ICE for it. When I did the route in ABRP, it added 26 hrs to my trip just for charging, and that did not count any waits or down chargers. I use my EV all week and it's awesome, but for something like this, I would rather not deal with the headaches. The trip should be about the trip, not planning your next charge.

[@stanleyrobinson5999]

I’m temporarily going back to an ICE vehicle not because of charging but because my Ford Mach-E GT has been so unreliable. It’s currently in the dealer’s repair shop for the last two months. And no end in the foreseeable future. Maybe I will find an EV with the style and reliability I need. Yes, I know I E vehicles have problems, but I’ve never owned an ICE vehicle that had problems.

[@stanleyrobinson5999]

CORRECTION: I had a ‘78 Camaro Z28, my first new car, that was a total piece of junk.

[@orthodon3232]

You trashing Tesla every few days isn’t a big help! I have a 2022 model Y that has been perfect in Northern Maine. The closest supercharger is 110 miles away and I have no problems because I leave my garage every morning with over 200 miles of range. How about you quit trashing the best electric vehicle out there at this point.

[@kardahaspindal]

My next car is 100% going to be an EV. To me the issues described are non-issues. Roughly half of the population in my country including myself lives in private houses so the charging at home is not an issue. The majority of my daily trips is less than 100 km. So I'll almost never will need to use charging stations outside of my house. On the _extremely rare_ occasions when I'll need to travel larger distances, I can use my old ICE.

[@rp9674]

Correct!

[@Tom-dt4ic]

You will love your EV. And my prediction is that even on longer trips you will prefer your EV to an ICE. I know I do.

[@brianbeasley7270]

How about--buy a Tesla and not be disappointed. There's a reason they are the largest BEV company in the world.

[@antonio6736]

First of all I own 3 electric cars chevy they give me a home charger with the car if I go on a Turnpike it has a charger every rest area if you don't want the electric cars don't buy it, go smell the gas from the gas station and listen to loud music from young people they are definitely😢 obnoxious plus gasoline drips on your foot what are you going to do smell it through the whole trip 😊

[@berthogendoorn2133]

I agree with you, back in 2019 to about 2022 I had no real issues with charging in Western Canada, but 2023 onward the EV adoption in BC and Alberta Canada have exceeded the capacity of working fast chargers, as like anything the heavier use is causing more charger failures and the line-ups are getting longer. I am glad that Tesla continues to expand in the western provinces and with their charging network it is not an issue provided you have either a Tesla, GM, Ford or Revian (which all have access to most version 3 Tesla Superchargers.

[@darylyost7273]

We have a six stall super charger in town,I've only seen two cars using it in the last six months! 😮

[@strangefire2024]

Though i'm grateful for them and am excited in seeing their continued development, EVs are definitely not for everyone. not all places have convenient availability of chargers, nor do they actually have a dependable source of electricity. there are other places as well where solar or wind or any other alternative source of collecting power isn't available. in due time, that will change (hopefully).

[@danlambesis1289]

Ultra-long range EVs are part of the solution. If range can improve to 450-500 miles, you can largely avoid DC fast chargers and rely on home charging and destination charging. Unfortunately, we continue to get a steady stream of 240-300 mile range vehicles that have a real highway range of 200-250 miles - and significantly less in cold weather. Meanwhile, the Biden administration has the right approach to improve the DC fast charging infrastructure, but the execution is painfully slow. Bob Lutz recently did an interview where he proclaimed (I believe correctly) that EVs will ultimately win. He makes the point that ICE vehicles have been improved/perfected over 125 years, and that EVs are still in their (relative) infancy. Batteries will continue to improve on energy density, recharge speed, and price, and the cars and drive trains will become even more efficient. Unfortunately, it’s going to take longer than we would like. In the meantime, the infrastructure rollout creeps along too slowly,and we now have a bunch of non-Tesla EVs with slow charging curves and the charge port in the wrong location clogging up Tesla superchargers. Things will continue to suck for EV owners for at least 3-5 more years.

[@Tom-dt4ic]

I drive a Model Y and things definitely don't suck for me. Loving my EV.

[@muskrat3291]

I drive a Kona EV and road trip without issue. 200 miles between stops is perfect. I suggest that anyone who plans to travel 500 miles between stops start looking for a good urologist.

[@Tom-dt4ic]

@@muskrat3291 I get 320 miles in my Model Y which is effectively 270 miles with 15% buffer in real world driving, and that's more than enough for me before needing to stop. Maybe if I was outfitted with a catheder I could go further.

[@noleftturns]

BEVs (100% battery electric vehicles) are dying they can't pass the "Mom test" I own a 2022 Tesla Model Y long-range with FSD and here's the Mom Test: Mom has spent the summer with her sister 1,000 miles away for 5 years now no problem with her RAV4 She drives 500 miles and stops at a motel and drives to her sister the next day and spends 3 months at her sister's condo in Florida and has a ball. Her sister's condo has outside parking with no EV chargers at all. Mom's car was rear-ended two days ago, and the dealer says it will take 30 days to get the parts and fix the car. Mom is to leave next week. Here's the test: Do I tell Mom to take our Tesla and have a good time Do we rent a car for Mom - a Toyota and she has a great time in Florida You know the answer, and BEVs fail the Mom Test and the reason hybrids make more sense or just stick with gasoline and forget about saving the Earth from evil ICE cars.