Evan You on Vue.js: Seeking the Balance in Framework Design | JSConf.Asia 2019

As the author of Vue, I often get asked on how the major JavaScript frameworks today differ from one another. Typically people expect technical details: size, performance, ecosystem... but to me, what fundamentally differentiates frameworks from one another is where a framework lands on the primitives vs. conventions spectrum. This is usually a conscious design decision, and the major frameworks we see today manifests three different segments of this spectrum. In this talk I'll discuss how these design choices have affected the adoption and growth of these frameworks, and why there might not be one single optimal balance point.
Evan is an independent open source developer. He created Vue.js, a popular frontend framework and now works on it full-time. Before going full-time open source, Evan worked as a core dev at Meteor, and before that as a creative technologist at Google Creative Lab.
JSConf.Asia - LASALLE College of the Arts, Singapore - 15 June 2019
Source: 2019.jsconf.asia/
License: For reuse of this video under a more permissive license please get in touch with us. The speakers retain the copyright for their performances.
Intro animation "something something prisms" by Martin Schuhfuss
codepen.io/usefulthink/pen/Wo...
Intro music "Know" by Matt McKegg
/ know

[@bas_kar_na_yar]

keanu reeves of the JS world

[@denniszenanywhere]

Bhaskar Nair Time to change vue name then to the matrix 😊 or to neo - he is the one

[@PaulSebastianM]

Wow! I see true wisdom and modesty. I'm convinced. I'm gonna try Vue right now.

[@aleksandarstevanovic5854]

this is the chinese modesty and wisdom... he is shoulder to shoulder with google and facebook and yet modest, hats off...

[@julianclaus7045]

His modesty makes Vue.js so successful.

[@powerblockgym]

Addresses many of the concerns most people have when picking up other frameworks

[@Flip97rza]

You are breathtaking, my man...

[@denniszenanywhere]

Sometimes I wonder if vue is for those of us who give up JavaScript everyday and then realize there’s vue to save us from giving up.

[@blackaccel]

I like how Evan approach many of the concerns that start emerging after the last talk Rich Harris had about Svelte and it's next level speed performance. I was specting to get some light on the downside of Svelte's black magic and yes, I got some of what I was looking for. Also the big speed boost that vue 3x is going through was good to hear.

[@thejaredwilcurt9336]

The downside is Svelte is focused on performance at the cost of everything else, including developer experience. Also there's no ecosystem there.

[@taylorhadden]

@@thejaredwilcurt9336 Dev experience is pretty good from my eyes. The syntax is easily my favorite vs Vue or React.

[@JoseGarcia-vr8mx]

Evan is such an amazing teacher. This was an awesome talk!

[@OptimalTrainingGroup]

I Love Vue. I need to listen to Evan more often.

[@ManasNagpure]

This talk does have many insights, I realize this after using React for so much time. His quote regarding Redux and considering yourself a "React Developer" speaks volumes.

[@ArrakeenHD]

In my opinion, the statement is also appliable to Vue.js since you need to know Vuex to call yourself a Vue developer.

[@MrDimitri71]

@@ArrakeenHD I am mainly a backend developer, and i always use vue to do my front end stuff. The only extra library I use is the router. The template architecture is realy easy to pick up, react on the other hand has a higher "entrypoint"

[@AdarshMadrecha]

Nice talk. Perfectly balanced

[@capjavert]

Like all things should be.

[@nickroth1906]

Any chance that there are notes or another video on the state mechanisms comparison?

[@FidelGuajardo]

Evan is a great speaker

[@samirsaeedi74]

I think lit-html's rendering mechanism is different from what has been discussed here and is worth exploring.

[@studentdar]

Can someone give me an example of the use case where Svelte's compiler can't do something that can be done in Vue? Afaik Svelte templates support all JS expressions and you can do everything you want in Svelte templates. Or I'm mistaken?

[@subilan7061]

Wow, nice talk!

[@PrashanthKrishnamurthy]

So.. to conclude - "I am not saying Vue is the best, but you are good if you are a Vue developer". :)

[@undefined125]

Awesome! Just want to add that a large framework have to maintain a large documentation. Some parts of Angular docs literally makes you to read stackoverflow instead, because they are far from perfect.

[@yueyu6244]

OMG Evan is the best!

[@ELStalky]

Nice

[@JoeWong81]

love the technicality.

[@ErickPetrucelli]

So, maybe it's time to write a nice framework comparison tool which exposes that multi-dimensional balance points cited by Evan as Cartesian points in a graph per balance point, positioning each one in the right spot for a easily visual comparison...

[@wantv5159]

Good talks,Evan has a nice voice 😂

[@chordfunc3072]

15:15 Turned British there for a second😂

[@hojdog]

You've clearly never heard one of us before

[@yun-ruzeng5026]

goooooood

[@menowaknowakowski7175]

Makers of js frameworks are sick

[@ultimalightz]

11:24 You absolutely don't need to know Redux to develop with React. Hooks, which are documented, remove the need for HOCs and render props.

[@naranyala_dev]

Why when displaying the pros is a green color 😂

[@hali1989]

every junior developer must see this lecture, so the idiotic arguments about what is the best FE framework would finally stop. This video shows what are the true things you need to consider when selecting a framework, and above all - HE SAYS THAT THERE IS NO "BEST" FRAMEWORK! THEY ARE ALL GOOD!

[@tedesco888]

Subtitules in spanish please

[@nanotech7431]

Who is better Reactjs or Vuejs ?

[@salman4430]

watch the damn video!

[@aviaryan]

😂

[@max8hine]

SSR and StaticSite Generator -> ReactJs, SPA -> VueJs

[@thejaredwilcurt9336]

Vue has Nuxt for SSR. There is Gridsome and VuePress for Static Site Generation. Vue also does very well as a jQuery replacement, by just linking to it via a CDN as it is very beginner friendly. There is also Native-Script Vue for native Android/iOS apps built with Vue.

[@whipstitchwebwork1383]

You ain't lying. Gatsby has been a game changer. Just killing other agencies stealing their wordpress clients daily.

[@HaiderAli-co9jl]

What about Svelte?

[@cjonline01]

He speaks about Svelte too in the video..

[@spacedumpster]

Did you watch the video? You didn't watch the video. He mentions svelte at 26:47

[@jameswee]

Don't leave comments like these if you don't plan on watching the video.

[@ilyaskarim1952]

That's another great Library like Vue and React, The idea is mostly taken from Vue, It is a great library.

[@djpunisha29]

what about it?

[@NeoChromer]

well I disagree with him when he talks about React. 11:30 part, you don't need redux, you don't need about higher order compoents nor hooks.. You just need to learn JS and basics of CSS / HTML. I mean React is as simple as its gets. They don't have to tell you in their Documentation what kind of CSS solution to use that is not something react solves at all, react is just a library that renders your HTML. That easy. I would not agree with this statement.

[@AcidBiscuits]

In this context, I guess Evan means that learning just React is not enough for real modern project. Developer has to learn additional tools to solve tasks for the application. Tasks which React on it own does not solve.

[@JohnSmith-rn3vl]

React is really simple when you make your own greenfield project. However I would say that after working in many react projects built by other developers I now detest reverse engineering react apps. React over complicates development massively and there is hundreds of ways to build a react app.

[@sam_mitschiro]

Well if you're building a small web page that does not habor alot of complex functionallity/logic, yes you dont need it. But that was not his point. His point was, the more complex and bigger your application gets, the more solutions you need, therefor tools like redux, hoc, hooks, etc come into the picture because they bring the solutions for the problems you're facing. Now you can try and reinvent the wheel over and over again, but than you're doing something fundementally wrong with your/ your company's / your client's time and money. And if we go down that route, than why even use React, just be a superman and write it all yourself in vanilla, html and css. And once you've done that and have seen the light at the end of your suffering, you might understand the meaning of why those technologies exists and why they are used to the extend that they are.

[@fabianletsch1354]

ax_0101 if you want to find a job using react, then it will be really tough to find one without knowing these things. Or to put it more clearly: React solves reacts usecase, which is how do you render data in the dom and make it accessable and easy for developers, but for it to solve real world business usecases you probably need more than just react.

[@mandaputtra]

I agree with him, no one calls his/herself "I'm react developer" without knowing that. Everything is javascript/html/css on front end web development, everything is simple if we know what we doing. Imagine newbies, start learning react he knows HTML, CSS, JS already but not that deep, he uses react, so do he need to know how to use React or not? If yes then they must understand how it works, at least in surface levels.

[@Vreth6]

An interesting, but very one-sided talk. He tries to come off objective but his intentions are obvious. It's fine to push your own product, it's nothing to be ashamed of Evan! That's what people need to do. I think he gets some of his points here wrong, and his focus sort of misses the point of the big differences between the frameworks for developers. In this talk he is not very developer focused, he is very marketing focused: "what makes my product (Vue) look better than others?" The fact is Vue is probably easiest if you come from a mainly CSS/HTML/design background, but if you're an engineer or data scientist React is probably easier to work with, and if you've worked a long time with C# or Java, Angular is probably gonna be most comfortable. I wish Evan thought more about all developers, and not just the ones who are like him/his audience. I think Vue is a fine addition to the framework arena and I respect his work, but he does not come off as modest at all to me.

[@thejaredwilcurt9336]

With Vue 3 they are focusing more on making Vue more approachable for these other audiences. Vue 3's source code is now entirely written in Typescript and will have a solid, full-typescript supported option (Vue 2 had TS Support but not truly native like 3 does). The new "Function based API" borrows a lot from React Hooks and will seem very familiar to React devs. Also Vue has had JSX support for years as well, this will just make it even more in line with what React devs are accustomed to. Nothing is going away with how Vue 2 worked. You will not be required to use TypeScript, JSX, or the new Function-based API, they are all additive, but they are treated as first-class approaches and fully supported by the Vue Core Team.

[@jeanayala5239]

"The fact is Vue is probably easiest if you come from a mainly CSS/HTML/design background, but if you're an engineer or data scientist React is probably easier to work with" look at me mom, I´m very smart.

[@dennishu001]

I think that's exact his point. He's saying Vue is the best - not for everyone, but the right people. IMHO, if you have a big team building a complex app, probably React is still the way to go. However, for single person/small team project, Vue is perfect. Angular - I really don't know what's the use case for that. If you are an engineer or data scientist just wants to crack up some front end for presentation/interaction, Vue is much easier than Angular from my experience.

[@samuelmorkbednarzkepler]

Idk man. Evan You is sounding a lot more objective than you are tbh. "Vue is for html/css people and react is for data scientists?" Theres a tiny grain of truth in there but compared to Evan Yous own analysis that statement comes across as very reductive and one sided... ironically. Also, I always hated that way of grouping developers. I have heard it before. The CSS vs Computer Scientist dichotomy. The fundamental building block of the web is not the backend or even Javascript for that matter. Its html/CSS. Everyone who develops frontend should be html/css experts first of all. So, when people say Vue is for css/html people and react is for backend Computer Science majors I think they themselves look at that as like... badass nerdy react man vs normy art school vue bro. But all I hear is Vue is for actual web developers and react is for people who own a Linux but have no fucking idea what they are doing in a browser