Evangelicals in the Age of Political Extremism: With Tim Alberta

[@KimiAvary]

Fantastic and terrifying conversation. Zealots are terrifying. I bought the book. Thank you Michael and Tim.

[@bibigems]

I am shouting "EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY" to Michael Steels and Tim Alberta. Everything they are saying here is so SPOT ON! EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY. GOD please move on these churches that have fallen away from Christ. Please move on them. Please move on them and restore the spirituality that has gone missing. That Satan is winning this battle. PLEASE MOVE HOLY SPIRIT on the American Evangelical church.

[@debrawalters1910]

Amen

[@rickwilson478]

..but why don't you see that these people, including the pastors, who are supposed to be guided and or perfected as good human beings by their religion are simply no better off, if not worse as individuals, within this supposedly righteous religious group? All these denominations use the .." we are imperfect"... just go to catholic confession.. or " I repent" mechanism that is always an excuse or an 'out' for your bad behavior . Think for yourself and use your own moral compass. Spare yourself the ridiculous idea that you need someone else or some religious dogma to tell you or teach you how to act. The entire discussion they are having proves that these people they are speaking about within the church are basically brainwashed into a twisted belief system yet they aren't questioning the validity of the need for the church or, more importantly, the efficacy of their teachings. They are both clearly describing a wholesale failure of ethics and morals within the congregations yet still implicitly buying into the whole proposition of any need for a religion in the first place because they are both so steeped in the concept/teaching/ dogma ... it seems so apparent to me, but for sure, anyone who questions religion in any way is always in for a world of condemnation and indignation .

[@juneramirez8580]

Amen to the prayer!!!

[@juneramirez8580]

​@@rickwilson478 some of us do think for ourselves. A good church should stay out of politics. They have no business there. Unfortunately, many of us sin in some form or another. You can't tell me those who believe in no religion are always good people and never do wrong (sin)! Even in the church there are people who still do wrong. The idea is that we ask for forgiveness AND STOP committing that so-called sin. It is important for believers to find a good Bible teaching church where their leaders are held accountable. Churches are just run by people. And people are human and make mistakes. No one is perfect. We need to watch how we act towards others. Those who don't believe in any God, how did they learn right from wrong? I learned by having parents who believe and what we were taught in church.

[@rickwilson478]

@juneramirez8580 hi, thank you for your kind response. I think I understand a faith based morality (maybe not), but I respectfully disagree that anyone outside of whatever religion hasn't the ability to discern right from wrong or to be taught so by , say, atheist parents. I can remember when my catholic parents sent me to catholic school first grade and when they started describing that we were supposed to be born imperfect or as sinners and we needed to be saved or "fixed" somehow by the church or god himself (why not herself, if I dare) ... it just didn't make any sense to my six year old self. Then the Sisters of Mercy talked about the people/children who weren't catholic who wouldn't be "saved" and, worse yet, would burn in hell .... that is what they told us, and it just made/makes no sense to me and seemed downright cruel and, sorry but kind of daft. Your acknowledgment that the churches are run by people and people are imperfect, to me, makes my point that there's plenty of reason to take a pass on the whole idea of it. The last time a Roman Catholic Pope was elected they described the whole voting process on a long National Public Radio broadcast and part of the explanation stated a series of processes with the ballots themselves that attempted to ensure there isn't cheating by the cardinals who are voting and, mind you, it is those same cardinals who are voting who are all eligible to be the next supposedly infallible papal leader of the church...and the broadcaster didn't even point out the ridiculousness of this fact! I am pointing fingers at the Roman Catholic church, and I don't know your faith, but to me, the denominations/sects/religions all function based on contradictory principles, one of which is the universal belief that if the individual isn't following our particular religion then that individual is not "saved". The whole idea that we have to be saved ( ? from ourselves? ) is contradictory. I am not saying that there aren't evil people, but I don't think anyone needs religion to be moral and a positive influence .

[@shannonspears4512]

Big Michael steel fan but This is the best ever! Everything I’ve been feeling but could not articulate. Thank you so much!

[@hapennysparrow]

This episode was so important. As a believer in Jesus, and having to go solo for the past 8 years, always viewed with suspicion, tolerated as naive among my peers, but attacked as an enemy when Trump was elected 2016. How anyone professing faith in Christ and surrendering all truth to Clownigula, just deeply disillusioned me. Like thinking was a crime, like asking questions made me suspect, being called Marxist and Baby killer, and throwing Christ's words to the ground was alarming. I began a deep dive to find a way to connect the dots. What I discovered was a false Christ, carefully crafted over the decades, to deceive and delude the gullible church goers. I just purchased Tim Alberta' s newest book. It was sold out when I first sought to buy it, which delighted me. The word is getting out. The real Jesus would again be crucified by these imposters. I am not referring to the average church goers, who have fed on Fox Noise for years, but those who have been shaping the narrative for decades to bring us to this point. I despised Ronald Reagan, Bush #1, #2, disgusted me, rejected the self centered prosperity gospel, the Dominionist theology, the push into a political party as representing Jesus Kingdom, and so much more. Trump is contemptible. He is the little horn with the big boastful words, spoken of in Daniel Ch.7&9. It is not a pretty scenario. I pray daily that the real Jesus will roar from heaven and shut this grotesque sociopath up for good. People don't read History. They are easily manipulated by fear. Jesus says repeatedly " Fear Not " The American church had no clue what persecution looks like. Peter was crucified upside down. It cost Christ's followers to followers everything to serve Him. Being called Marxist and Baby killer was nothing. His temptation in the wilderness hit all the points the American church has fallen for. Read true History, read the Bible, look at His words through the lense of love and grace, and mercy. Thank you for adding your experience and understanding of the scriptures to the other books on the subject of this apostasy. God bless. Keep speaking out. What we are seeing was done during the years where Adolf Hitler and the state church merged to form fascism. The beast with the fatal head wound come back to life, Rev. Ch.13. Dear God, open your people's eyes.

[@4jeffinseattle]

Thank you for addressing everything that I have been contemplating for several years. It started with Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority." and a person in my church , I was attending, signing everyone up for Reagan during the church service. And conservatives interested in Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism, going back to the Old Testament implementing it in our politics/country. I believe most evangelical's that love Trump are unbelievers mocking the very faith they purport to believe in. Trump can have a friendship with a child sex trafficer Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years, and did visit his "Lolita Island." His narcissism, self-aggrandizement, his lies, his anti-knowledge: refusing to read;having his assistants to tell him the news.6 bankrupsies,his blasphemous marketing his own bible to raise money for his campaign. And the sacriligous mega churches who have destroyed Christianity by their blatant evil intentions for a business to fleece people for their multi-millions, private planes, mansions,etc. The evangelicals want a theocracy. Jesus NEVER preached politics. Christians have adopted modernism, and have rejected the truths of Scripture and sound doctrine

[@mspmrbg]

Hoping that the Weimar resemblance ends soon, so afraid of what came next happening over again - atavistic violent urges are being nurtured and it is scary

[@michele9890]

I enjoyed knowing I am not alone in this world. Its a lonely place until you listen to you guys and read the inspiring comments. Thank you all for some encouragement and hope. Merry Christmas

[@Anabee3]

You are definitely not alone. We're a rarity, but those of us who SERVE JESUS, VS making up some santa-in- the -sky, false version of Jesus whom we demand serve US, still exist. Those of us who refuse to replace Jesus with Trump still exist. We are a rarity, but we exist. I often think: Manoman, if that many ppl , in USA alone, got swept away by djt, I shudder to think how many will be fooled by THEEEE anti-Christ. 😔.

[@michele9890]

@@Anabee3 Amen. It seems as though respected believers have sold their soul to djt. It's is so incredibly sad. I pray for them. Have you seen the ad he made called " And God made Trump. Blaspheme.

[@LoudandClearChastity]

​​@@Anabee3I hear you! Warm greetings from Australia 🦘 I could never vote for Trump. He is evil. The whole Trump show baffles me, quite frankly. I could understand (well, not really) when people voted for him the first time - "novelty" factor. But here we are in 2024 and there are still these mad Trumpers and the possibility he could get into power again. Crazy! A real threat to world security and peace. And Trump has absolutely no faith or religious conviction. A FRAUD in more ways than one. We know the real TRUTH because we live it. Jesus is the real KING.

[@LoudandClearChastity]

​​@@Anabee3and yes, I agree! Most people will not be a match for the Anti-Christ. Mind you, alot of people thought the Covid vaccine was the Mark of the Beast which tells me that ALOT of people do not know their Bible. The world will have plenty of warning in the first 3.5 years during the Anti-Christ's reign (the two witnesses). Will the world listen?

[@dorothydevinney694]

What a breathe of fresh air... I've seen to many of my former evangelical friends turn to the dark side.

[@TisDana]

Jefferson was a deist, who believed in science and enlightenment. On the day of the 2020 election, Biden went to mass and Trump went golfing.

[@joannaquanttumphysics]

I guess if you think you are the "new Jesus "..........

[@bibigems]

Biden is a true Christian. God Bless Joe Biden. VOTE BLUE!!!

[@jmbirdsong5605]

Jefferson was also a hypocrite, guilty of incest because Sally hemings was his wife's sister and a child molester because Hemmings was a child when he began his shit-situationship w/Hemmings.

[@cristagriffin5562]

Deists believed: GOD made (The) (world), (and) (every thing) in (it), (and) (then) let humankind handle (every thing). Ireland got Europe out from (the) Dark Ages. (They), (and their folk culture/folk music) might get America out from (our) polarized, political situations).

[@AbdAlNour]

I don't think either are Bible believing in any serious way but one is less arrogant while the other is more traditional on morality (but i don't think from a place of conviction).

[@72940]

I was taught this 70 years ago in my little country Universalist Church. I have loved listening to this conversation. I listen to Alberta every chance I get. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[@matthewking8806]

Great video, great discussion. Thank you Michael and Tim.

[@TRTGCbyjroed]

Good Morning Brothers 🖐🏾😊it’s too early for my Martini so I added a splash of Bailey’s Irish Cream to my coffee. I’m here for this~ Let’s Go👈🏾

[@lj9524]

I wish every Christian could listen to this podcast. Tim’s book is excellent. Great discussion gentlemen. Please don’t reelect tRump🙏

[@iamthepantaloon2913]

Wounderful podcast, Thank you both for giving us truth from Gods word. I've been directing some really hateful thoughts at our ex-presedent, I don't know God's plan for this nation, you two definitely gave me some food for thought. Thanks again for the reminder.

[@lydiasharp6070]

I’ve been intrigued, watching and listening to Tim’s book tour interviews…and by far, this has been the most engaging one yet. Might we consider the role prosperity ministries have played by encouraging the current transactional culture of the Evangelical movement today?! Thanks so very much for such thoughtful observations and engrossing discussion guys.

[@lesleepetersen87]

Thank you, Michael for another wonderful interview!!! I’m still parsing my way through Tim’s book. And I’m grateful to hear it ends on a positive note! Thank you, again, sir! Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!

[@granmarye1]

Please say the of Tim's book

[@fletcherchambliss1590]

I am now gonna call myself a Christ follower. The evangelical term has a rotten connotation. Reading the book right now. Excellent

[@divingchicago]

Great explanation! Generations using religion to teach lies brought us to where this country is. Evangelicals have lost their way.

[@jesusavila452]

This was such a good conversation I know I'm going to hear a few more times. Michael and Tim thank you for educating us for what's really important..

[@ellebelle8515]

Wow, at times listening to this, I am in tears. It is as if at age 65 I am suddenly part of the 'church' of which I no longer know who I am a part of. I know that this Christian nationalism is not of Jesus, but where do we go from here if alone with Jesus. Now I am hearing two men who are speaking what I have known in my heart for some time but I am not hearing from the church around me. They are either going radical or staying quiet. Thank you for the truth straight from God's Word.

[@kathiburdette4279]

Wow!! Thank you both for your perspectives and insight! Fantastic show! I'll look forward to a follow-up if possible.

[@sjones2088]

Thank you Michael for this discussion, and thank you Tim for your Spirit-led books.

[@KennethBurgess]

Great discussion. Great questions Michael. Learned a lot.

[@robertsmith6675]

Powerful dialog!

[@godfreychristophe1442]

Michael is Steel Still along with Tim their continuity of Faith no matter wat the struggles of the day Our Hope is in the invisible and not the visible The true and abiding word of G-D

[@derricklockhart9650]

Great conversation. Mr. Tim Alberta is a wonderful man of God. A great writer with very compelling insights in his writings. Merry Christmas.

[@egaldones]

I miss this discussion. I appreciate that somebody captured what I feel about this “ American Christianity”

[@roya7961]

Thank you for this podcast. Y'all said so much what I have been thinking. God bless you both.

[@EricSmith-wt2qu]

Excellent program 👍

[@asalovesbikesz64]

This is the Best, most helpful convo of it's kind anywhere on the internet.

[@fluxfaze]

Extreme evangelical politics have always been the driving force in the USA. Manifest destiny, HOO YAW!

[@Donnie-hf5du]

Careful Tim....of loosing any humility. Tim I appreciate what your saying. I see your name everywhere

[@birgittetange6411]

Thank you for a great podcast. Happy New Year from Denmark.

[@g1e2c3k4o]

The moral decline due to power worship is far worse than i had thought. I have many characteristics of an evangelical but i couldn’t consider myself one. I would never tell them directly but they have been swept up in a cult. As they obtain more political power people will act like they agree but below the surface they will never convert. You cant push your beliefs on others……

[@eddie9076]

" Religion poisons everything " ---- Christopher Hitchens

[@sosueme66]

❤❤❤Tim Alberta

[@michelegyselinck5400]

I THANK God that I am NOT part of such a church; that people in my church are not paranoid about persecution when we are NOT being persecuted. Those people forget that persecution is the NORMAL thing for Christians, and that we should rejoice when we are considered worthy of it, not fight it by means that have nothing to do with the Gospel.

[@lindaamason2804]

Melania trump on tape saying "Who gives a F*** about Christmas" when supposedly decorating the White House .. does she know it was Jesus' bday,? What are these men thinking

[@evehamilton314]

Great conversation

[@ErikaRodriguez-x7u]

Amen!

[@lorrainedenov9445]

This is VERY REFRESHING! Thank you so much.

[@bobwilson3980]

Religion is the number one avenue for racism and classism. Our God is the REAL GOD.

[@ontime3462]

Good to hear.

[@johnviktora6014]

Suggestion: trim the introductory contact with your guests. I am so glad that you have your own podcast. I believe you. Your integrity comes through consistently. Sweet!

[@bobbyesamdahl]

thank you so much Michael...astonishing insight

[@kathiestickel9247]

What really bothers me about the evangelicals is, I just want them to look me in the eyes and tell me what the 2nd commandment says. These Trump supporters, I would be in fear for my soul if I were them.

[@duanemiller6678]

For those who have made a statue of Trump, I agree with you wholeheartedly. That includes those who have made a graven image of him in their own mind. One caution I have for you, myself and everyone who sees what is happening across the Evangelical Church as a whole. Don't paint all of them the same with a broad brush. There are many of us who have supported Trump in the past who no longer do, or at least to a far lesser degree.

[@judyrayford656]

YOUR ENERGY IS GREAT 😎

[@johnbrandimore9011]

It's almost like any religion in politics is bad. Despite what my father always said there is no such thing as "just the tip" theocracy.

[@denkerdunsmuir3370]

A lot of babies owed their existence to that just the tip activity. True story. Lol Turn right; turn left - make a decision is my approach. Change your mind after trying either choice if it's not doing what you want. Bear in mind some decisions are unsatisfactory no matter what you decide. That's just life; imperfect. 😊

[@joeyg7458]

I was invited to a church at target a week ago out of the blue and I went off on this couple because I lost my cool knowing what the American evangelical church has become. I cannot sit in fellowship with anyone that supports ending American democracy

[@TimThompson-ve5sm]

I left 30 years ago as a former Southern Baptist

[@MalachiMarvin]

Jesus did not seek political power and He did not ask anyone to seek it in His name. Good podcast. Thank you.

[@lloydfraser2801]

Great point!

[@neilsoulman]

Amen, it is the spirit of Barabus, and a form of idolitry

[@beverlymadonna6725]

Thank you

[@brendaevans1378]

Jesus said to feed my sheep Jesus also calls Christians to fulfill the great commission preach the Gospel period 💯✝️🙏

[@brendaalmaznai7975]

This is so wonderful and so informative thank you 🙏

[@laurieburnside5300]

I've seen a lot of these interviews with Tim Alberta lately. Unfortunately, I think Evangelicals, and Christianity as a whole, has been dealt a lethal blow. The hipocrisy and lack of true, immutable values is a hard thing to overcome. In their zealous quest for a theocracy, they have likely spurred the "religion has outlived its usefulness" discussion by 40 years.

[@silasrobertshaw8122]

Has anyone thought about this rot dating back to the Civil rights movement? Arguably the most famous American Christian was a black pastor who embraced Jesus' message and led a movement for equal rights. If the teachings of Jesus lead us to be like MLK Jr., perhaps Christ really isn't the way, and fear/racism becomes the identity. Does that make sense?

[@michele9890]

Donald Trump is being used to root out the wheat from the chaff. People who follow Trump have a religious out look of salvation. Where as people who have a relationship with Christ will sit under Him and deny Trump. The wheat and the chaff. The chaff will go into the fire according to scripture. Choose this day whom you will serve!

[@bethanydee1920]

Apparently "the tail has wagged the dog" for many people throughout history according to 2 Corinthians 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

[@susanstein6604]

Interview David Nirenberg on his book Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition.

[@silvanusforth1180]

Religion in the gop has been there since Reagan. AKA Christian Legislators. Call them Reprobate Silver Jeremiah 6:30. The Lord has rejected them. Matthew 5:17.

[@saranebeling6375]

I heard a MAGA woman in a video yesterday, say "I'm really praying that Jesus will vote for Trump!" huh???

[@surlypiratewench1969]

Excellent conversation. Thanks Mr. Chairman🎄🎄🎄

[@vsquare5653]

These “certain” Christians think someone is coming for them, not true, just because DT says so doesn’t make it so. But if they looked at themselves clearly they would see that they themselves are doing harm to Christianity by their recent radical behavior and allegiance to DT and not to the true teachings of Jesus Christ. And they’re doing harm to their own religion, because many people are leaving the church and many others are thinking the Christians crazy zealots. Good discussion Michael and Tim.

[@djpolo99]

@19:50 Because they listen/watch Fox news 5 Days a week but only go to church one day a week. They watch Fox news for 2 or 3 hours a day and only listen to a sermon for less than 30 minutes a week.

[@zezefulfule]

This Tim Al erta🎉 Is excepcional al🥰👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏💫💪❤️😍

[@johnrogers1456]

Evangelistic Christians have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Jesus COULD NOT embrace lies and liars, nor deal in lies. ❤

[@bikebudha01]

"Faith" is defined as "belief without evidence". "Moron" is defined as "person of faith"......

[@doctorj2u2]

You speak the truth.

[@peteranderson2687]

1 John 2:15 - King James 15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

[@sharonjoy6234]

In a 3D world everything has 3 sides. We are 3 persons in one physical intellectual and emotional beings. Which sometimes is called body-mind and spirit. Emotions Provide the energy for motion. Hate reaches for the sword.

[@justingarner9806]

How could the political divide in our country lead to the persecution of the saints of God? When a political leader says that he will be a dictator on "day one," calls opponents "vermin" who he will "root out," says, "In four years, you won't have to vote again," and asks his generals why they couldn't be more loyal like Hitler's generals, and says that he'll be his supporters 'retribution,' that is a dictator. When the same leader is envisioned by most of his base as embodying the country, a super-patriot who's the only one capable of saving the nation, the champion of liberty and freedom, the "truth," 'law and order,' representing the 'good' in this partisan political clash of 'good vs. evil,' a protector of Christianity, a messianic figure believed to be chosen by God to fight against evil and protect the nation, in a sense it deifies the individual and creates a dictator. This creates the belief that loyalty to him is synonymous with loyalty to God and the country. Trump wants his base to believe that, He’s the embodiment of America… the Democrats are anti-American and traitors He’s a super-patriot who's the only one capable of saving the nation and saving our Republic… the Democrats are trying to destroy the nation He’s the champion of liberty and freedom…. The Democrats want to take away your freedom He’s the "truth”…. The Democrats are “fake news” He’s ‘law and order’… the Democrats are lawless He represents the 'good' in this partisan political clash of 'good vs. evil’…. The democrats are evil He’s the protector of Christianity… the democrats are godless He’s a messianic figure chosen by God to fight against evil and protect the nation… the Democrats are pawns of Satan Elections are rigged...unless he wins Everything's a hoax.... unless he says it All of this only deifies him and creates a dictator. Trump is trying to seize power by dividing the country. The idea that everyone who opposes him (the saints of God)-is on the left is furthered by his narrative that he is the hero on the side of good and that his political rivals are evil, subhuman, traitors, and connected to the deep state, communists, and Marxists.

[@kimmurphy5107]

So much hypocrisy... It hurts your heart!

[@lindahoover4925]

I love Michael Steele’s podcast, but wish he had let his guest talk a little more

[@darinlegore284]

Thank you Tim! I am former Assemblies of God and went to church to worship and fellowship Christ--not to be told how to vote, to see a GOP voting recruitment table in outler lobby, or hear Q-Anon/FOXNEWS conspiracies of Trump "prophecies" from congregation masked as a religious experience! When you conflate Jesus with #OrangeJesus you totally lose focus of the Great Commission.

[@jerryclasby9628]

Michael, the Roman Catholic Church is man's (Rome) version of Christs Church

[@EmmettHenderson-hf1zm]

Most trumpers are always focused on the literal ingrained feelings mores etc

[@NotYourTypicalNegro]

Michael Steele is a deep brother.

[@beverleyjackson249]

I am a Christian that doesn’t go to church because I believe my soul is in better care sitting at home on the sabbath than milling with people in many churches. I know plenty of “bible” folks in my red county who can recite scripture but * hate with a capital H their neighbors *call the police whenever they have a negative feeling about some one *never think of others besides the fact that the world is dangerous *have lots and lots of guns When and if I ever go back to church - I want it to be a place that makes me feel better and helps me become better

[@AbdAlNour]

That stucks you haven't been able to find a tribe of likeminded Christians at a church in your own community. I would assume their must be if even a small group, no? May God help us all and the very real problems especially inside the church (as you) cited.

[@billyjackson5469]

gibrahn afrikah @beverleyjackson Right on Sista, i wholeheartedly agree with your inlook and practice with that. A lotta "Christians," including ppl in general, in all walks of life, can learn a good thing or two from your deep-seated Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding. Peace&Love🌹💖🙏

[@mosescarolina9733]

I understand & get this so much. My sister said something perfect here recent and it is "Christian is NOT a denomination." Sometimes you just got to concentrate on & PROTECT your soul & relationship with GOD. It just isn't that same churches with the same message anymore. Do you, sis. God knows what's in your heart & how you came to A VERY POPULAR CONCLUSION. KEEP THE FAITH

[@mosescarolina9733]

One more point.... Church should be the SHELTER from the storm, not the storm itself.

[@grizzlemc1662]

But if you want the church to change u must be a part of that change!!!!

[@leslieb5836]

Wonderful conversation. Truth is beautiful.

[@derricklockhart9650]

Nothing more beautiful. Merry Christmas.

[@Laevus99]

I went through this with my church over 25 years ago. Have felt hopeless ever since. The only comfort I held on to was something Jesus said “not all who say my name are mine”. For the first time in 25 years, I now feel some hope. Bless you both

[@Hisgrace4me]

I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you. Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!! I hope this is encouraging to you.

[@joannaquanttumphysics]

Do you mind sharing what happened 25 years ago?

[@Laevus99]

@@joannaquanttumphysics it might shock you though

[@Laevus99]

Decided to share an abridged version. The full history is simply shocking and actually criminal. At an altar call, a man came to the front and admitted his sins of sexually molesting his toddler son. The church became ecstatic. I’m not being hyperbolic. People rushed to the front to endorse him for being such an honest sinner… I looked to his wife who was about three rows in front of me. She didn’t move. I left my seat and went to her. She looked as though she was carved out of ice. She was so frozen. I cuddled her. No one else came near her, they were all surrounding her husband. A few weeks later, shit I don’t want to get into it by text. I simply left the church

[@Laevus99]

Absolutely disgusting

[@beckymontgomery210]

As a non-evangelical resident of deep red east Texas (djt territory), with a plethora of evangelical Christian relatives (blood & in-law), I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed this episode. It's good to know there are still some normal Christians out there.

[@redbarchetta8782]

"SOME"

[@Anabee3]

Evangelical used to simply mean someone who's willing to/does spread the Good News. Anyway, that must be pretty rough to be drowning in Trumpers. I only have a few in my life & we just keep Trump talk off the table. And there's not many Trump flags blocking the view of other drivers. I feel for ya & grateful to be reminded how good I have it.

[@dianeforpeaceandkindness]

I believe in love and not hate….I learned that from the Bible. I learned about Hate from Donald Trump.

[@aeriolfitzgerald359]

As a Canadian Christian Science woman who has a Trumper in the family - I am so very grateful for this podcast and you two gentleman bringing in your Christianity to discuss this very serious issue - it helped me understand - the cross vs the sword - and when you mentioned DT Jr saying 'what did turning turning the other cheek ever gain us' it all made sense. Have bought the book - I look forward to reading it. Thanks again for this podcast - it means a lot to me.

[@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401]

It means so much to all of us dedicated Christians who maintain our welcoming and non-judgmental Methodist Church communities....and I know so many other church communities who are defying this radical Evangelical element in our midst.

[@TedApelt]

I have lost track of the number of times when I have argued with conservatives that "separation of church and state", as described by JFK in a speech, is EXACTLY what the First Amendment of the Constitution is all about. Thank you for backup support!

[@mosescarolina9733]

Just out there doing THE LORD'S WORK, aren't you?!?!? May HE keep you safe & keep your zingers tight!! GO FORTH & SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY, good dude!!

[@wandawelsh9209]

Thank you both so much for this conversation. I have really enjoyed it. Merry Christmast to all!! 💙🇺🇲💙🇺🇲💙

[@charlottelucero4900]

Great conversation - thank you both - kindness gets us further, than anger and resentment 😢

[@bibigems]

So true. Hateful so called Christians are an abomination to our Lord.

[@jenniferhunter4074]

That would work in an ideal world. Unfortunately, that is not this reality. We didn't win WWII by kindness. We didn't free any black slaves in the US via kindness. on an individual level, if one can leverage a personal relationship, kindness might work. Some people respond better to cruelty. Not everybody is like you. Think of identical twins. Even if they are extremely similar, they are still not the same person. They are two different people. If you know them, you can tell instantly which one is which. On a societal level, it's different. At that point, if you're not fighting the abusers, you're telling everybody that the abused do not deserve to be or feel safe. Why do you think the right wingers demonize the left so much? Why do they target marginalized groups so much? They're easy to bully. They're easy to sacrifice. In contrast, the left tends to attack the big guy who is causing the problems. The left tends to structuralize their thinking and thus, remove the onus of choosing to be humane from the typical conservative. In other words, the left refuses to condemn the right for their monstrousness. There's always an excuse ... much like the bully's mother saying "My son is just misunderstood". Oh... and the right never really self-reflect so there's no real hope for self-improvement. To get them to think, they must be shocked into it and most people don't have the ability to be that cruel to others.. even to the conservatives. I guarantee that if conservative voters were enslaved and suffered decades of Jim Crow, they'd understand finally, something of the black American experience. They might even suddenly understand why one must not honor the confederacy. But nobody is seriously working to enslave the conservatives. Instead... most of us are hoping they just die and leave us to fix what they broke. Yeah.. in a kind world, maybe this would work. But when I look at how conservatives are motivated, it's always via cruelty and fear. That's what they like. They're like fish in water when it comes to bullying somebody. They can't handle being nice to an outgroup member. they really really hate other people. (and yeah... I do know them. It's because I know them that I've written conservatives off. Familiarity has taught me contempt. My problem is that I'm always thinking.. If I weren't me, would you be this nice? They already will say I'm evil because I'm a Democrat. If I were gay or black or muslim, I don't think it would go over well.)

[@belindapaysinger1874]

Absolutely!!!! (y)

[@Jlr-vz8cc]

We do not live in a Theocracy!! Separation of Church and State is critical.

[@denisehall4818]

Some evangelicals want to create an Christian society that mirrors the Taliban in Afghanistan.I don't think I'm overreacting.

[@corneliagumulauskis9401]

What a fascinating conversation between two articulate men. I really enjoyed listening to them.

[@Tammy763]

You cannot take this moment for granted during this crazy time!! I always appreciate a moment of decency, critical thinking skills, and intellectualism… Thank you for the Christmas hope!!

[@l.joyhartwell3764]

My Great-grandparents (CHRISTIANS) told my family this for five (5) generations - what has been "roaring" behind closed doors for YEARS, does not reflect GOD/JESUS/LOVE! I thank GOD for exposing their "hearts." 🙏❤🙏 They "try" to mask it as "doing good!" We cannot love GOD and hate our neighbors! Light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place. Do not be fooled. . . . ❤

[@mbe1108]

I really enjoyed this convo as an Evangelical that left the church but still calls Jesus my Master.

[@redbarchetta8782]

That's what a Real Christian would say, the problem are those who now call Trump messiah.

[@gailwilliams2632]

Me too, I just don't understand what Bible they read. I pray every day for God to help me stay in his word an stay focused on separating my faith and politics

[@leee646]

​@@gailwilliams2632We're supposed to want righteous, god-fearing leaders. A god-fearing person tries to mimic Jesus.

[@juneramirez8580]

​@@leee646 I remember when we were all wearing wrist bands that said "what would Jesus do"? It meant that we should first think, would that be an action Jesus would do? The MAGA republicans do not follow Jesus. They don't understand the complexity of following Jesus and Father God. They use his name just to get followers that do not follow the Bible any longer. They have forgotten what Jesus has taught and replaced it with their own fears, greed and closed minds. True Christians must get out there and speak the true word so it isn't forgotten and overruled by MAGA.

[@LoudandClearChastity]

​@@leee646yes, stating the obvious. People just don't seem to understand. They've gone stir crazy.

[@michaeldunigan1067]

Where there is no vision (knowledge of God) the people perish. Our christian leaders are no longer seeking God. They think that money is more important.

[@deannedflrocks5337]

So very true.

[@Ggaia-d9z]

They never were seeking God. 2000 years ago the Gnostics knew that religion is seeking Satan. And FYI as a liberal I'm no fan of the Gnostics.

[@wandawelsh9209]

Money and control!

[@Hisgrace4me]

I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you. Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!!

[@pauld4146]

So they don't really believe what they profess to believe, do they?

[@JulieSchwartz-ig2xl]

Thank you, gentlemen, for this very helpful discussion. As a lifelong follower of Christ, this new Evangelical “turn” of faith and Christ-like values and behaviors has had me so confused and alone in my own beliefs. Your message is so very important and appreciated. Thank you both.

[@Hisgrace4me]

I am a born again evangelical, former republican conservative leaning voter and a Never Trumper. I appreciate Tim so much. He is a wonderful example of what Christian integrity looks and sounds like. Thank you, Tim I am praying for you. Jerry Falwell Sr ("The Moral Majority"), Franklin Graham and "NAR Evangelical Dominism" has over many years helped corrupt the evangelical church with politics. We Protestant Evangelicals need to weed and pray out this corruption out of the Church and get back to glorifying God and making disciples of Jesus Christ and only Him. Not DT!!! You are not alone. I hope this is encouraging.

[@lindaparker4168]

There are a lot more of us that seek to follow The Christ instead of these fear and haters who demands everyone has to think just like they believe or else ... fear and hate rules instead of real faith.

[@raymondlaing5868]

I have heard Tim interviewed many times this past week, but this is the best and most complete exposition of what he is writing about. Thank you.

[@bdharral]

God bless you both, gentlemen - you have articulated what's been churning in my spirit for years now. The only problem is that the people who need to see and hear this, won't. Actually, upon reflection, maybe that isn't a problem - they just don't have ears to hear.

[@judymawhorter7301]

Because their orange jesus, not my words but theirs. Has taken their place in these United states. Now they are pushing out people of different faiths. Under the words of Donald Trump who says he was sent by God and now Mike Johnson who says he I'd the new moses. To lead here in the states? What is going to wake people up to all this blaspheming?

[@maryebert4980]

Spot On. I left the Republican Party because of Trump

[@timithius]

I recently saw a video about PragherU. It looks like. A Talibangelical training camp where you can major in terrorism. America DID learn something in Afghanistan after all.

[@andrewgeissinger5242]

Which video was that? I've watched a few PragerU videos from time to time (not lately though) and I never noticed anything like that.

[@genegustafson715]

In the 90’s, I taught an adult Sunday School class. At that time, Rush Limbaugh held more sway with “Christians” than the Holy Spirit. Yep, I said it. Now, it’s Trump. Is this phenom the “falling away” predicted in 1st Thessalonians?

[@DeeDee-tq4cg]

Thank you, Michael and Tim!!!

[@greatgoodygumdrop]

The problem is a lot of ignorance of the Bible and no pastors willing to stand against what's going on

[@Kra-ri6fd]

I have noticed that many of the people I know who are Christian nationalists busy themselves in the church but don't open their bibles much at all. They are too busy doing good deeds that they don't know what the Bible even says. There are hardly any in my church that carry their bibles with them to church even. My own pastor spoke before the congregation a couple weeks ago and said, "they are now calling us Christian Nationalists". I told my husband no they are not calling us ALL christian nationalist! There is a huge difference between being a Christian and a patriot and being a Christian Nationalist. I am a veteran and a Christian but I am not a Christian Nationalist. I am wrestling with talking to my pastor about this because I feel he us cultivating an atmosphere of us vs them over something he clearly doesn't understand. Those that I know who are Christian nationalist don't even know they are. They don't know what it means and might even fully embrace the title because it just sounds good. Well, evil can be wrapped in the name of Christ. In fact, Satan often imitates Christ as a form of deception.

[@markanthony3275]

@@Kra-ri6fd Call them what they are...pharisees.

[@cherylcardran1776]

" The ends justify the means" never works out well.

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

Most atheists I know make better Christians and know more about the Bible than most Christians I’ve known. I used to be a Christian and there are a few parables I bring up that tick off Christians-Jesus in the Temple and the Good Samaritan.

[@chelabuford7106]

It doesn't tick off real Christians, only those who pretend to be. Those FOLLOWERS of CHRIST know that those scriptures teach very important principles of the faith.💯

[@denkerdunsmuir3370]

Agreed. Many times when first introduced to self-defined devout individuals they will trot out their litmus test questions to determine if I'm devout enough to their POV. I'm the wrong person to do this with because I was analytical as a child from a HBU educated, Southern very Catholic sent to Catholic schools taught by Irish Roman Catholic nuns and priests. I tell them I am unitarian which they rarely can process. Questions they ask are confusing to me like, have you been saved, or are you born again --:which really is language that means something different in almost every sect, church, etc. That fact alone is why our country was founded so no one dictator -- like King George of our revolutionary era -- couldn't shove rules, taxes, religion down our throats against our will and choice. I go there with them gently, but too often, their education is too thin to help in thinking through the discussion even when I base it in the Bible. I am very gentle in these discussions because I get that they are suspicious and maybe afraid and trying to secure for themselves that they are safe with me. I am just human, too, so their quest for certitude is not helped by contact with me; I live I the ambiguities of reality nuances of which only confuse those not yet taught to think for themselves based on facts, data and common sense. I look at this evangelical sectors with a sceptical eye because of its genesis in racist opposition to school integration via Brown decision 1954 and subsequent mid-20th century Civil rights movement. However, I share half traditional views with them and pray they will one day do their part to share half of modern views with me! Cooperation, compromise and conciliation go a long way toward a harmonious society!

[@sharonjoy6234]

I evolved from atheist to agnostic toothpaste because everything had to be proved. Then the humanist established themselves a Half block from my apartment. I attended 20 years and then my own nephew the president said he would have to kick me out so I quit. Intelligent they are but unprejudiced no. 2 on the board came to my place to say I was welcome. But until they don't exclude those who have experienced the supernatural I cannot go back. Nothing can happen unless it's natural but sometimes it's super.

[@amyhamilton2201]

Whatever is of faith is not of fear. Whatever is of fear is not of faith!!

[@amyhamilton2201]

Thanks Tim and Michael. For the gospel. Feels profound.

[@almar2957]

WWJD? He wouldn't have a rifle or guns to kill people who did not think like him or look like him! That is surely not what Jesus would do. Etcetera. I am so glad you are discussing "this new MAGA Evangelism." Thank you!