Eve Made Easy

[@realflightline]

Nice! This finally rescued the 88 kerbals that were stranded on my Aegus Project! Thanks. They have been stranded for 2/3 of my space program so far.

[@Echo3]

Those aren't stranded Kerbals. You have successfully colonized the solar system.

[@realflightline]

@@Echo3 Funny! But true. I use the abandoned cargo hold as a science lab!

[@realflightline]

@@Echo3 I want to thank you again, this saved me a lot of science points as well

[@Echo3]

You're very welcome. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@sgt_retiredcharlie4102]

@FlightLine I hope they brought lots of snacks! LOL

[@electrollama2127]

I’m surprised how well those propellers work. Normally the lander would have a set of asparagus stages to get to 15km, making it at least 50% bigger.

[@Echo3]

Since solar panels work better on Eve, as long as I had direct sunlight this method worked well.

[@rtbeerzi]

I subscribed! Thanks for keeping the parts that didn't go to plan, so we can learn and add our own designs and stuff. It's very humble and nice to see the humanity

[@Echo3]

Thanks for subscribing. I try to be open about what works and what didn't.

[@reegs54]

Definitely the easiest Eve return mission I've seen! Really like the use of propellers.

[@Echo3]

Thanks. The goal was to make an Eve return mission to seem less daunting.

[@flip66five]

Those hinges dont register with the ground as landed if you dont put the pads on fyi... makes a difference for science gadgets..

[@Echo3]

That is really good to know. Thank you.

[@normalhuman9260]

Somehow I was unsubscribed from ya,glad I seen ya again to realize it.

[@_RandomPea]

Oh wow... Just seen this in your videos!!! Mind reader! Propellers !!?

[@Echo3]

Yes, those Breaking Ground propellers can make returning from the surface of Eve a lot easier.

[@_RandomPea]

@@Echo3 so, any chance you could do a slower walkthrough of the build? I can't follow the approach to setting up the props, i.e which prop parts and you do something on the controller but can't tell from my mobile what you are doing 🙂

[@joejudd7431]

Click the settings button on the top right of the video and change the playback speed to 0.25

[@Echo3]

@@_RandomPea I have made several tutorials on how to use the KAL 1000 to set up propellers. But in general, I bind the propeller deployment angle to the KAL and the KAL to an action group such as throttle or translate. I set the play position limits on the KAL to go from 0 to somewhere between 35 and 45 degrees. I typically run the rotors at 460 RPMs.

[@robertlee6409]

very good video! 👍

[@RondoChonk]

Helpful.

[@Echo3]

Glad to hear!

[@normalhuman9260]

I am looking through the comments,and am very impressed with how often you provide a response to people's questions and statements. I know I was subbed to you at one point "unless someone has almost the same name and does ksp videos" but I'm glad I found ya and subbed. Really cool that you interact with your subscribers and seem genuinely interested in what they are able to achieve in game. Just wanted to share my perspective and wish you and your subs a happy holidays.

[@Echo3]

KSP has a great community. It is a pleasure to be a part of it and interact with other players. Thanks for subbing to the channel.

[@reegs54]

Hey Echo, I've been trying to re-create this craft but I'm having some issues with the ascent from Eve. Main problem is my craft can't hold radial out ascent. I suspect my ducted fans aren't controlling properly. Also just noticed rewatching this video, your craft shows all axes are using cyclic control while my craft seems to be stuck using collective. Any tips? Cheers!

[@Echo3]

The game auto assigns the cyclic and collective, but holding a slight angle may help. In testing, I needed to increase the control authority of the fan blades from the default 3 degrees to 5.

[@Crmsynn]

I like the video! Eve might be my next target thanks to this video.. Haven't made it to minimus yet im still trying to figure out a rocket design that'll fight since im playing on hard mode so no reverts

[@Echo3]

Duna tends to be an easier place for a first interplanetary landing and return mission, but Eve is doable. Some of the parts I used are unlocked a little later in the tech tree though.

[@Crmsynn]

@@Echo3 ohhh yeah im using uhh like almost mid tech stuff i did a bunch of research stuff since the last time we talked, i was at low tech.

[@Echo3]

That's cool. Career mode is my favorite way to play. Keep me updated on your missions, it is nice to hear how other players are doing.

[@Crmsynn]

@@Echo3 Any time! I watch your videos everyday so I'll tell you every now and then

[@michaeldemarco7449]

@@Echo3 I'd also say gilly is a good first interplanetary mission but definitely duna as well.

[@Khether0001]

I meticulously built the craft just like yours. But right at 6:52, MY MIND EXPLODED! *YOU CAN MOVE THE ENTIRE CRAFT BY SHIFT+CLICKING and **_then_** DRAGGING?!* I literally today just made sort of a Dune Heignliner that measures 200m by re-rooting like crazy, I've seen a lot of useful tricks but I had to take a break after that one! Echo3, you are awesome!

[@Echo3]

I think in the comments you can find a link to the craft on KerbalX. I made a few improvements for that version.

[@booyaskooya]

This is amazing! This might be the cleanest example I've seen using propellers to ascend through Eve's atmosphere. Great stuff!

[@Echo3]

Thank you very much. Do you have any missions ongoing at the moment?

[@booyaskooya]

@@Echo3 Well I'm always trying to challenge myself. I'm trying to make aircraft that land and takeoff from the water. Right now it seems like I can only do it with overpowered aircraft, but I'm wondering if there's some design tricks to use other than high twr.

[@Echo3]

@@booyaskooya Are you playing with the mod scatterer. I found that the waves with that mod make water takeoffs especially difficult.

[@booyaskooya]

@@Echo3 That's probably it. The waves do increase the difficulty.

[@christopherquinn5899]

Nice video. You have proven the viability of propellors for an Eve ascent vehicle. It is a bit of a cheat though, given that there can be no proper "air" flow for the propellors. All the same, I think you have proved your point, and you have also provided some very useful information about Eve. Thank you.

[@Echo3]

I admit how I placed the rotors was a bit cheesey. But as you saw, the purpose of the video was to show the viability of using propellers for the initial ascent through Eve's atmosphere.

[@hugofolpp1753]

Very nice design, very sleek, small and looks light. How heavy is it?

[@Echo3]

The entire lander, including heat shields, deorbit engines and parachutes is 43.9 tons. The ascent stage is 18.9 tons.

[@hugofolpp1753]

@@Echo3 daaaaang bro! Impressive! How much vacuum delta V does the ascent stage have?

[@Echo3]

@@hugofolpp1753 about 4000s.

[@hugofolpp1753]

Echo__3 oh perfect, that’s great! That means my lander will probably work!

[@threesixtydegreeorbits2047]

1:24 that was a lie. Look here 11:47

[@DanksterPaws]

Well, it got down in one piece!

[@jjeeqq]

Stabely orbits itself.

[@formerfofcastudent7470]

I modified your lander craft a little to be EVA friendly and yeah it totally works! After I’m done with Eve I might attempt to make my own design for Eve.

[@Echo3]

This is just a demonstration craft. It looks like it is helping you come up with more ideas and improvements which is what I hoped people would do. If you take any screenshots of your crafts, I'd love for you to share them so I can see what you've come up with.

[@formerfofcastudent7470]

@@Echo3 the main reason I had to make modifications was because I didn’t have the making history DLC and I wanted to be able to EVA. I have more enlarged control surfaces for better control, I moved the 2.5meter reaction wheel to the 2nd stage. I have only 1 aerospike. I also added ladders that I can decouple once I want to ascend. I also had to replace those fuel tanks at the second stage with the non dlc adapters. For the parachutes section I had 2 16XLs. Other than that those are the only major modifications I can find. I can try to send you a screenshot if I can. All in all it offers about 6K vacuum delta V which theoretically should be enough to get me to take off.

[@Echo3]

6k should be more than enough. I was able to make it back into orbit with 4k. But 6k should get you all the way back to Kerbin. Once the craft ascends higher than 15km, the atmosphere thins to that of Kerbins and reaching orbit becomes a lot easier.

[@formerfofcastudent7470]

@@Echo3 alright so funny story the craft was too heavy for 1 aerospike so back to 2 aerospikes. That brings h to e delta V pool back to 4.5K worst case scenario.

[@Echo3]

@@formerfofcastudent7470 Well, 4.5 should still get you back to orbit. I know I needed 2 aerospikes to keep my TWR high enough. Sounds like you encountered the same issues as me.

[@VelkejTvrdejMarvin]

Nice and efficient design. 👍

[@Echo3]

Thanks. What is your favorite place to go in the Kerbol system?

[@henryatkins9079]

not entirely sure what i'm doing wrong, but I'm fairly certain I built the craft to exactly what you did, but it keeps tipping over on eve, nearly on flat terrain as well

[@Echo3]

I had a few issues landing as well. It took me a few tries to make sure I landed on flat enough terrain.

[@hardkorowyolek9248]

hey im using your craft file and when i start proppeling up from eve its not going faster than 2m/s so its imposibble to start

[@Echo3]

You may need to adjust the deployment angle of the blades. 7° is good for taking off, then increase it as the craft accelerates.

[@pavellishin2972]

I have lost dozens of rockets on eve, I gotta try this out

[@Echo3]

Many of my Eve missions have been one way as well.

[@somearthling]

Hey, I'm trying something similar but in my testing on kerbin the ascent stage just drops to one side and it's almost impossible to correct(SAS just makes it worse). Not sure how to fix it

[@Echo3]

With my design, I dropped the propeller stage when the atmosphere thinned to the same as Kerbin Sea Level. So, you may find that Kerbin is not ideal for conducting tests. You can assign yaw pitch and roll control authority to the propellers to help with control. =

[@somearthling]

@@Echo3 Thanks, I didn't realize authority was off by default on the propellers, they must have changed it since you made this video. It's working well even on kerbin now

[@northuniverse]

I can't get this craft off of Eve, once the propellers get it to 200M it topples over every time. any tips?

[@Echo3]

I had to increase the control authority on the props from 3 to 5. Let the props get up to speed before increasing their deployment angle.

[@northuniverse]

​@@Echo3 I'm on console and Authority Limiter can be changed but not Control Authority. I noticed that you had your propellers angled at 0, but when I do this my craft goes no where. Really stumped with these blades.

[@Echo3]

@@northuniverse I started with the blades on zero, then increase their angle as the rotors get up to speed. I bound a translation group to the blade angle. Optimal blade angle for takeoff is 8 degrees.

[@northuniverse]

@@Echo3 I will try this, thank you!

[@P4pa-Joe]

Very good design !

[@Echo3]

Thanks. Have you designed an Eve return craft before?

[@ramiron4109]

Man, i am just struggling so hard with making this craft work. I built it just like he did and I just cant get to orbit. my delta v just drains too fast between 20 km and 35 km compared to the video and I dont have enough to fully get into orbit. did they change the ways that eve's upper atmosphere works? Im using mods like waterfall and other visual mods, do those affect the way atmospheres affect you?

[@Echo3]

The visual mods don't affect the atmosphere. I have the craft file available on KerbalX. The ascent took me a few tries during testing. The ascent profile is key. Don't start your gravity turn too soon. Try to get out of the thick lower parts (about 35km) before tilting to 45 degrees.

[@GoldenGrenadier]

This is much simpler than the escape craft that I made. Mine is a behemoth 8 propeller space plane hauling 6 radial fuel tanks. It can only muster a service cieling of 13.5k meters on propellers while fully loaded and can only just get itself into orbit, but it has space for 6 kerbals.

[@Echo3]

Mostly, this is a proof of concept. It shows a simple method for how to use the breaking ground propellers to escape the thick soup that is Eve's lower atmosphere. Your six Kerbal monstrosity sounds like quite the craft though as just getting one Kerbal back into orbit around Eve is no small task.

[@tiexgameplay6107]

Lo he intentado 3 veces y ninguna de mis naves pudo llegar a órbita mí record fue de 24 km usando un cohete súper pesado,pero con una etapa superior con un motor muy débil 😭

[@Echo3]

Creo que usar las hélices ayuda. Puedo llegar fácilmente a 15 km. Entonces solo necesito 4000 m/s ∆v para alcanzar la órbita.

[@kumiko3264]

do you have a craft file? also nice job subbed!

[@Echo3]

I do. I believe I shared the KerbalX link here in the comments.

[@sgt_retiredcharlie4102]

Can you upload the craft file to KerbalX? I'd love to just be able to use your ship.

[@Echo3]

I am setting up a KerbalX account right now so that I can share this craft with you. I'll reply again when its available.

[@Echo3]

Here you go kerbalx.com/Echo__3/Eve-Return

[@hugofolpp1753]

One question, how heavy is ur lander,

[@normalhuman9260]

Just under 19ton for ascending vehicle.

[@xander2853]

That eve lander is a bit large

[@normalhuman9260]

That's what she said!

[@savage8336]

Very Cool! That prop design is a great silver bullet for Eve!

[@Echo3]

Yes, this design greatly simplified the landing and return.

[@savage8336]

​@@Echo3 I've tried using your ascent vehicle build (with minor differences), and I have trouble with stability. I don't use the KAL 1000 Controller. What is it's role in your build?

[@Echo3]

@@savage8336 The KAL-1000 helps control the deployment angle of the blades. Rotor RPS, craft speed and air density all affect the ideal angle of the blades.

[@savage8336]

@@Echo3 Getting closer to a solution. Putting the prop on top of the ascent vehicle made it more stable for me. However, controlling the prop angle with the KAL1000 also helped with stability. I doubt it would make a good visual for a tutorial, but I find the aerodynamic overlay extremely useful. How much deltaV do you think I should have at 15km? 4000? 3500?

[@Echo3]

@@savage8336 I would suggest about 4000 m/s. You need to reach an orbital speed of 3200 m/s to reach orbit.

[@yourunfinishedcollegeessay3565]

now do it with USI life support

[@AVERYhornyMrDinosaur]

i made something similar, but i didnt know the propellers worked when blocked on the top.i have actuating arms that drop fan blades and steer (not with SAS like i wanted though). but i can't seem to get my rockets to have the same performance as yours, my rocket has ALOT of drag. but those aerospikes are just big suck for me nomatter what i do. im going to experiment with SRB.

[@Echo3]

Drag is a big factor when launching from Eve. At 15 km the atmosphere thins to kerbin sea level pressure. 2 aerospikes provides the needed TWR for my craft. At 15km, any kerbin first stage engine should be a workable option for you.

[@AVERYhornyMrDinosaur]

@@Echo3 i get to 17k sea level on fans, then 4 aerospikes fire for something like 1 to 1.6k of Dv and then a 2.5 Dv stage, and then four sepratrons on a very small craft at low throttle, THEN ion engines. and it cant even get half way to orbit it seems. 90k apoapsis and like a quarter of an orbit

[@maxilepera5012]

I have the same problem... when I reach 17 km height, my aerospikes have not the same performance as your... and I can not scape from eve.

[@AVERYhornyMrDinosaur]

@@maxilepera5012 well my story had a happy ending, i figured my problems out and got off eve and made it back

[@maxilepera5012]

@@AVERYhornyMrDinosaur sorry for my english I speak so so. But, how do you solve that problem? What did you do? Did you remplace the spikes for others engines? I am becaming crazy. Thancks