Everest 1996: Sandy Pittman and the Yellow Brick Road

[@michaeltracy2356]

Please read the Description for additional information about the oxygen bottle use. If you wish to quote some book (Into Thin Air, The Climb, etc) in order to "prove" something, you should state why you believe the statement in the book is true and what other evidence corroborates it as well as address the statement of mine that you are trying to "disprove" and explain why the evidence in support of it is wrong or incomplete. Just because Jon Krakauer wrote something does not make it true. Just because it has been repeated for years also does not make it true. For a more detailed discussion, and to more easily include links, and photos, join us on the discord: discord.gg/EGuxCy2H

[@adventuresgonewrong]

I get an error on the Discord link, says it’s expired?

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@adventuresgonewrong ​ discord.gg/jRWRysEj

[@laurenanderson61]

Sandy had also climbed six of the seven summits before this second attempt at Everest. That is not "inexperienced."

[@stoneymcneal2458]

What level of support did she have on those other expeditions?

[@backlogbrood2451]

​@@stoneymcneal2458no amount of support discounts the experience climbing mountains she, or anyone, had. This argument is barking up the wrong tree. You need a certain level of experience to be able to climb at this level no matter the level of support received from the guides. It is frequently misinterpreted by many(mostly ignorant people) that a guide can simply do the climb for their client no matter their fitness or experience. It's simply impossible. It's like saying "I had to go take a shit, but I'm a paying client, so I had my guide go do it for me instead". Impossible

[@Tenebarum]

@@stoneymcneal2458 Same as any other climber. She attempted the Kangshung face with David Brashears. I doubt he would take an incompetent climber on that route.

[@stoneymcneal2458]

@@Tenebarum You might be right, but it is well known that money talks in the mountaineering industry, as it does in all other for profit industries. She, like many other climbers, paid a premium to have others establish the camps, bring the supplies, set the ropes, provide to O2, show them the route, escort them along the journey, bring along the sherpas for support, and be there to protect the paying customer should something go wrong. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the true level of skill required for such a daunting task.

[@Tenebarum]

@@stoneymcneal2458 who cares? Very few climbers go solo on the extreme peaks. There is a support industry, and it's mutually beneficial. It's still tough, and it's still risky.

[@phoebehill953]

Being unlikable is not the same as being guilty, but it’s often perceived that way

[@simbalantana4572]

... by people who have no critical thinking skills. Very true.

[@salzavenchura9043]

1000000

[@PsychoKillertheGame]

Being dragged up by a sherpa on a short rope, and saved from death by Boukreev only to say there were no hero's that night has the pungent stench of a narcissistic individual. Idc what kind of coffee pot she had though..

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

@@PsychoKillertheGameyep. big time narcissist. That behavior couldn’t be described in any other terms.

[@Chellz801]

@@kamakaziozzie3038ok arm chair psychiatrist

[@simbalantana4572]

Thanks for standing up for Sandy. Most people don't know what an experienced climber she was by 1996.

[@PsychoKillertheGame]

She climbed 6 of the 7 highest peaks by that point..

[@svirgo1224]

Yes finally! People tearing her apart and putting so much blame.

[@WienGolf]

I've seen many videos and movies about the 1996 Everst disaster, and I've read the two most famous books about it. But no one has ever said as clearly as you that the main mistake was dragging that Doug Handson to the summit. There was no sense about it! Rob Hall and Andy Harris would certainly still be alive and they could have helped others descend, including Scott Fisher as you say yourself. Thank you for this clear statement!

[@rodbelding9523]

Yeah I've read about this disaster numerous times and watched the movie as well, and from what I know I'd tend to agree with you. It seems like the most fatal error was Hall breaking the guidelines to take Hansen to the summit. That mistake alone cost Hall, Hansen, and Harris their lives. If it wasn't for that mistake Hall and Harris would have been around to help others too, so other people might have been saved as well.

[@whitneypaxton2690]

I have always said that about Doug. He wanted to finish so badly and I feel with him on that. Unfortunately, I believe that was part of the reason very experienced guides made poor decisions that they knew they shouldn’t have. Obviously, these “mistakes” might not have been deadly if not for the storm

[@mchandrashekhar4043]

Even without the storm ,they would have been benighted because of poor decisions by leaders...​@@whitneypaxton2690

[@mikedr1549]

Of course. It all falls on the shoulders of Rob Hall. He felt a certain obligation to get Doug to the summit because of turning him back the year before. He let his emotions rule his decision making and it cost him his life.

[@Spartan_-du9wi]

It is easy to make Pittman to look bad and take most of the heat. But Rob Hall & Scott Fisher who were supposed to be the adults on the mountain. Showed little regard for safety. And they both set the stage for tragedy.

[@chrispbacon6810]

Let's be honest she had no business being there it was only because she was a socialite that had to do something dangerous to earn respect from her family

[@davidgeisler9885]

Were they that much more risky than most attempts though? If not for the storm they may have all survived. There have been more Sandy Pittmans before and after 1996.

[@CharlesFreck]

@@chrispbacon6810 Not a single person who climbed Everest after the first expedition summitted had any business being there. You could maybe argue the first people from each nation to summit if you really wanted. But nobody in the last 20-30 years has had any actual business climbing the mountain. It is entirely an ego trip. There is not a single person climbing who has some legitimate reason outside of some form of ego. So using that as a reason for why she shouldn't be there is the aforementioned misogyny, which you're poorly disguising. Stop hating women. Everyone climbing Everest is doing it for personal reasons. Her personal reasons are no less legitimate then anyone else who's climbed Everest's personal reasons.

[@adventuresgonewrong]

@@chrispbacon6810 So climbing Denali, Annapurna weren't dangerous enough? 😅

[@adventuresgonewrong]

@@CharlesFreck 100%

[@Tenebarum]

Some of these videos are libel. My favorite is the video entitled how she killed 8 people on Everest. She's one hell of a climber then. Summits and kills 5 climbers, then swarps around to the north side and takes out 3 more. Very good and measured video. Sandy Hill went through a lot of public condemnation for doing the same thing everyone else did. Climbed or tried to climb a mountain.

[@GoodieWhiteHat]

Yes, she apparently carried a cappuccino machine in her pack. Ended up being a few bits and pieces for a method she had to froth the milk so it would be “like a pretend cappuccino” that she left at camp one. Talk about vilification!

[@Tenebarum]

@@GoodieWhiteHat She used one of those tiny aluminum Cuban coffee pots.

[@GoodieWhiteHat]

@@Tenebarum yeah, like many have. But didn’t she froth it up with something? I thought I remembered her saying something about how she did that in an interview.

[@Tenebarum]

@GoodieWhiteHat she had a jar she shook up powdered milk and water in. I used to do that too, so I found it believable.

[@ferreira8649]

I just don’t get why she felt the need to kill the Indian climbers, they had nothing to do with any of it.

[@davidws6260]

I am so glad you have spoken up about this and already highlighted many other facts that have not been highlighted at all !! ... the STORM was without doubt the biggest contributing factor in the deaths and injuries on that mountain ...and the speed of it.. how anyone could blame Pittman makes me question them !! Lots of mistakes made but the Storm was a killer ... thanks for your awesome work .

[@michaeltracy2356]

The mountaineering disaster KZbin audience is about 80% male. It is unfortunate that so many of the creators in the area cater to the lowest common denominator while they pretend to be enlightened or thoughtful people.

[@bucksnake]

Sorry that is like saying the cars caused the accident that killed five people on a highway. If the ropes had been set as was planned the day before, nobody dies. It really is that simple.

[@WWIIPacificHistory]

Your well researched bluntness and humor is quite refreshing in the face of so much Thom Foolery!

[@embunchofnumbers]

THANK YOU FOR THIS. I HAVE WAITED FOR THIS EVER SINCE I READ THE KRAKAUER, VIESTURS, BRASHEARS ACCOUNTS. THE MISOGYNY IS BLATANT.

[@jackharle1251]

You are always fair and reasoned, which is greatly appreciated.

[@samiamgreeneggsandham7587]

But it sure did sell well.

[@shewearsfunnyhat]

Thank you for making this video. I was getting very frustrated with all of the videos blaming Sandy Pitman. She had a lot of climbing experience when this happened. She had completed the other 6 seven summit climbs prior to the 1996 Everest climb. She was not in a leadership position so its crazy to blame her for the whole thing when she was never in charge.

[@RandomDude-l5f]

"She was not in a leadership position...." exactly,

[@adventuresgonewrong]

Wow the stunt. I saw that in Lene's book but wasn't sure how it all tied in. After watching your video, a lot more things make sense with that lens. Now I wonder if Lou's claim of Rob and Scott really wanting to get both teams to the summit at the same time was related. He also said Rob was really obsessed with records. Were they planning on getting a record number of clients to the summit and planning something big (the stunt?) for when they all got there?

[@dkeener13]

I'm glad to see you taking this on. I never paid it too much attention, but then the fresh round of anti-Pittman hit pieces started recently and I started thinking more about it. Pittman is clearly in my mind way too convenient a scapegoat, but the one that actually bothers me is the other convenient scapegoat Boukreev, who is in truth as best I can discern it the only true hero in the whole story. Krakauer is clearly spinning a self-serving yarn, but I'm not quite sure why someone like Beidleman is willing to latch on to the "blame Pittman and Boukreev" narrative. Probably partly self-serving on his part as well. Reading between the lines it's easy to find fault with some of the sherpas, but blaming them is not going to be a narrative that sells. Obviously Fisher and Hall should probably come in for the most scrutiny but I guess people don't want to speak ill of the dead.

[@alexiell10]

I am now in the '96 ME tragedy rabbit hole so I am watching (and preparing to read) EVERYTHING I can find. And the more I watch the more I am convinced Krakauer is throwing blame on others just to hide how much selfish coward he was that night, passing everyone without single thought of consideration

[@AnnaRoth]

Charlotte Fox also says in the interviews on the microsite for DB's Frontline in 2006 or whenever that they were waiting at the top for Scott so they could all celebrate together. She doesn’t mention a prank but it does confirm they were waiting for a specific thing, not just lost track of time… "CHARLOTTE FOX: It was my feeling that we celebrated a little too long. We were waiting for Scott to come up so we could descend as a team, but he was taking the longest time. And people were enjoying the day. The day was beautiful. There wasn't a cloud out there."

[@weenbaby]

Krakauer left some stuff out of into the wild too.

[@cagezero1]

I'm interested to know what, if you could link me anything good to read/watch? McCandless was one of a kind. The story has always both inspired and haunted me.

[@zztop4996]

For those interested, there's a 40-minute 2023 interview with Pittman on KZbin: "Podcast: Surviving Everest & social death with Sandy Hill". There's also an EXCEPTIONAL 1.5-hour interview on KZbin with Neal Beidleman. He says it's the only time that he's really gone into detail about Everest '96: "Neal Beidleman | Mill House Podcast - Episode 19".

[@zztop4996]

Of further interest may be an August '96 article in Vanity Fair, "Snow Blind Ambition," which can be read by googling that title.

[@Tenebarum]

She really came across well in that video. Well spoken, excellent story teller, sense of humor and likeable.

[@boudiccaleduckel4680]

@@Tenebarum I completely agree. I liked her. She's also my hero for never printing her story or capitalizing on her experience, like most of the rest of them. I thank Michael Tracy for laying this story out so precisely. It really helps exculpate her.

[@Tenebarum]

@@boudiccaleduckel4680 She's an interesting person for sure. I thought she handled the situation in a classy and mature way.

[@hookedonfandom]

Thank you for speaking out against the misogyny in this coverage! I’ve been enjoying going through your channel and look forward to you getting more followers.

[@alisonabedelmassieh9193]

Thanks for explaining the Yellow Brick Road! That explains why Rob Hall was able to offer a lower price to Outside magazine for Krakauer- he was spending less on oxygen.

[@davidws6260]

The 3 oxygen bottles compared to mountain madness 4 bottles is a massive fact.... the planned stunt/prank also another major factor ... add a fast rolling viscous storm... only by God's grace no more lives were lost ....and many were saved ... easily all could have lost their lives ... Great stuff Michael Tracy !!

[@OverTheLineSmokey]

Whether or not Fischer planned a stunt, the fact that he failed to turn around at 2 pm is the reason he died. The same can be said for Hall. The slowness of the climb seems to be more attributable to the possibly 2 hr delay in placing the fixed ropes, than to poor fitness of too many clients.

[@eric-wb7gj]

TY 🙏🙏. More good, concise, well presented and interesting work.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@WWIIPacificHistory]

Thank-you so much for doing this! I’ve read most of Krakauer’s stuff and while I initially loved it and found it enthralling, the more I learned about Sandy Pittman, which was not nearly as bad as Krakauer portrayed her, the more I started to dislike Krakauer.

[@kensilverstone1656]

Nice scoop on the big secret of the climb, and nice analysis of other claims reported previously.

[@johngraves2185]

Thank you for doing this! I’ve been waiting for your reply/rebuttal to the “others” who have posted such negative things about Sandy. I can’t stand Tom Thom Pollard’s videos, he must think he’s a great journalist, videographer? Such cowards. Keep up the great work and I look forward to your upcoming videos. Cheers!

[@suestaley844]

Thank you again for this video. I have learned a great deal about the 1996 climb. since following you. Found a used copy of The Climb ( Boukreev) and looking for Sheer Will ( Groom) now. It has become pretty clear Krakauer's version is riddled with errors. Sandy pissed a lot of her fellow survivors off, when she showed up for the after climb press conference in makeup and fashionably dressed. Smh. Poor excuse for scapegoating her for things she had no control of. Truth be told, had not the storm rolled in on them, all of the climbers would have made it to camp 4, with the possible exception of Doug Hansen. He was in the throes of altitude sickness. The storm was the real villain of the story.

[@MrReymoclif714]

Agreed.

[@mongo312]

Great stuff. I read Krakauer's book numerous times and it always seemed like he was portraying himself as a serious climber in a group where everyone else had issues of some kind. Off topic, one thing I've always wondered with so many different teams caching bottles. How often do they find that some have been taken mistakenly ( or nephariously ) by other climbers?

[@michaeltracy2356]

Every single time. Oxygen theft is a huge problem.

[@alexandros8361]

​@@michaeltracy2356I’m so glad you mentioned this oxygen theft, Michael. Cause I have never read or seen footage about it - ever! Yet I know from experiencing many adventures, that oxygen theft and similar thefts must happen. Thank you Michael Tracy, for opening the door to a much more critical evaluation of the stories of Thom Pollard, and many others. By the way, cortisol deficiency can always occur to a person in a prolonged high stress situation. Possibly more so, to a high stress person. Dexamethasone would act as a miracle drug. ( a replacement of our most critical hormone). I'll shut up now. Regards

[@ariw9405]

Thank you! I appreciate you calling out the blatant misogyny. Misogyny also comes in to play how Charlotte gets no credit for the heroic role she played during the tragedy.

[@Martin.Lord.Waghorn666]

thom pollard doing a video on david sharp when i have no doubt he would have just walked past him also

[@mchandrashekhar4043]

Hypocrisy..

[@einarpost]

I get it, she is the perfect scapegoat if you just…. disregard the important fact that everybody (apart from Scott that was not near her) on her team made it back safety. Rob and Doug on another team getting themselves into trouble high above… that darn Sandy!!

[@j.m.2022]

The overall reluctance by Krakauer and others to suggest that Rob Hall, as leader of his expedition, should be held accountable for his decision to re-summit with Doug Hansen after 4 pm while knowingly leaving Beck Weathers waiting for him to come down from his 2:30 pm first summit continues to baffle me. Hall was, at that point, clearly valuing Hansen's and Namba's ascent over his obligations to his other client, Weathers, who needed help descending and was instead left waiting for Hall to come back down from the summit. Fischer, likewise, needs to be held accountable for his own death in that he should have certainly turned around when he met Beidleman and the other Mountain Madness clients descending; thereby, ensuring that whatever stunt he had planned would not take place. Instead, he opted to continue to the summit alone late in the day while admitting to being abnormally exhausted. As a mere client of Fischer's, Sandy Pitman could not reasonably be held responsible for Rob's illogical decisions nor could she be held accountable for Fischer's illogical decision to summit. She's also not responsible for the decisions of Boukreev or even Lopsang. Having climbed 6 of the 7 summits with only Everest left (the same status as Namba), and having made two other credible attempts on Everest, it's obvious that she was certainly well enough qualified to be there.

[@sabineb.5616]

I completely agree with your comment! Scott Fischer only killed himself because of his stupid decision to summit, although it was already too late and he didn't feel well. I think that nobody understood why Scott Fischer behaved so irrationally. However, Rob Hall's misguided decision to help Doug Hansen to summit although it was already way too late, caused several deaths - including his own! I was always baffled why this hasn't been mentioned more often! But it's most likely a case of people being reluctant to say bad things about someone who died in such a tragic way and who left a pregnant wife behind! Even the movie from 2016 - which is not based on Jon Krakauer's book - isn't overly critical of Rob Hall, although the events happened 20 years ago!

[@j.m.2022]

@@sabineb.5616 I'm not trying to disparage Hall at all. I see them simply crucial mistakes made by fallible human beings. Let's not forget that Fischer's death was equally tragic and he also left behind a young family.

[@Logai74]

Thank you for this!

[@karenbb5063]

I love this series. Thank you for your extensive research.

[@wakeizland]

I'm not sure Rob Hall was not also part of the problem. He knew Doug Hansen was nearly exhausted, but instead of ordering him to turn back, Hall offered to accompany him to the summit. Hansen had failed in his summit bid the year before, and Rob Hall had promised him that he would get him to the top if he returned to Everest for one last time. Hansen respected Hall, and surely would have turned around if Hall had insisted on that, rather than unwisely agreeing to help Hansen keep going.

[@TheSaxon.]

You're making assumptions based on hearsay. We don't know what was ever really said or the exact information. You also can't order another man to do anything. They both made decisions based on the information and their emotions at the time. Any decision is easy from an armchair.

[@davidgeisler9885]

If Rob had turned Doug around both plus Andy Harris would have survived but then again if there was no storm all 3 may have survived

[@msbeecee1]

Yeah, I really feel upset at the treatment of Doug, not respecting Doug's own knowledge of his own body. Nobody should be convinced against their own intuition & self-knowledge to go up any mountain, let alone one w a Death Zone. This seems to be such a huge failure of leadership. Just because someone has summited before doesn't automatically confer upon them leadership, wisdom & group management skills. They're different skillsets. Maybe they overlap some, but I personally would never trust a first or second time group leader. Group dynamics take on a life of their own and it takes skills to manage it

[@kevinhsu8184]

Doug already turned around to go back down. It was Rob that convinced him to go up with him. If anyone who’s responsible for Doug and Rob’s death, it was Rob.

[@simbalantana4572]

@@kevinhsu8184 Agreed. Rob has been put on a pedestal for some reason, when his lack of leadership proved fatal.

[@johndefenderfer5946]

Yeah, I had always read that Sandy was the reason at least some died, so it's nice to hear another perspective. Can't wait for the other videos in ths series.

[@theworldisavampire3346]

It was super easy to tell years ago what a doof Krakauer was. Sandy was a pretty good mountaineer with some great climbs under her belt by 95: Aconcagua Denali Vinson Elbris Kilimanjaro Kosciusko Punkak Jaya. Krakauers accomplishments: Rock climbing. Writing books

[@Tina06019]

Thanks for this video. All the vitriol thrown at Sandy Hill Pittman tires me; it smacks of scapegoating to me. Of course, I wasn’t there, it was a hell of a storm, and this is Everest. I don’t villainize anyone; but I think commercial competition and hypoxia-induced mental confusion played a big role in the tragedy.

[@tyesalhus5604]

I’m not a climber at all like AT ALL but it’s so interesting. I find myself totally involved with these climbs. It’s seems people have a pardon my language but a “ hard on for Jon and his book”. While I believe that he is a type A climber and a decent person he is also extremely ego centric and wants people to think he’s amazing. Even his description of the guy in Alaska that died in that bus is an ego driven person. I think Sandy is the same way with her actions but as for climbing not so much. Jon left someone they died. He couldn’t have that on his resume so he attacked others including Sandy for her questionable actions. Oh well love the series. Mystery, adventure, technology,science, psychology, human body all of it is awesome. Thanks

[@Skk2713]

😂😂😂😂”sleeping through the storm of the century, which he would famously report on it”😂😂😂nice one. The irony, that’s why there’s so much inconsistency in his story, HE SLEPT THROUGH THE STORM

[@wildmanmountainjack3725]

I think many of the people who criticize the actions of these climbers forget that they are in a place where one or two hours is the difference between life and death.

[@teijaflink2226]

I feel so bad for Sandy being called in experienced and the villain, if someone is a villain it's Krakauers bullshit.

[@Nic-bd6bj]

Scott Fisher took the madness in "Mountain Madness" too far... I remember being fascinated by Krakauers book in 99... Never looked into the 96 disaster since... Thann you for providing a more fact based narrative Michael!

[@alexandros8361]

I am curious about two things, but maybe not on topic. Firstly as I recall, Jon Krakauer stated that line had been laid above top camp where it wasnt needed and they then used that for the summit line. But if so many got lost close to the top camp, surely it was needed. Secondly, researchers have stated that a storm (presumably low pressure) can reduce oxygen availability by 13%. That could have been a critical factor for Hall, Fischer, and the others when they ran out of oxygen. It seems that Hall and Fischer could literally not move? Am asking?

[@michaeltracy2356]

Yes, Krakauer's statement that fixing the ropes immediately above South Col "where really not needed" is a bit odd. First, there were no ropes fixed immediately above S Col as he states. Second, as you note, had there been, the people could have found the camp easily because they would just grab a rope and follow it into camp. The Montenegrins, who’d got even higher, had installed some fixed line, but in their inexperience they’d used all they had in the first 1,400 feet above the South Col, wasting it on relatively gentle slopes where it wasn’t really needed. Krakauer, Jon. Into Thin Air (p. 182). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. Curiously, Krakauer contradicts himself... At 6:30, as the last of the daylight seeped from the sky, I’d descended to within 200 vertical feet of Camp Four. Only one obstacle now stood between me and safety: a bulging incline of hard, glassy ice that I would have to descend without a rope. Krakauer, Jon. Into Thin Air (p. 201). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. So, on the ascent there are 1,400 feet of ropes fixed by fools where it is not necessary. But then when he is descending the last 200 ft, the ropes magically have disapearred as has the easy terrain, turning into glassy ice for which a rope is necessary. Makes for a good story, but as soon as you look at what he really wrote, it doesn't make any sense. The storm and lower pressure was certainly a factor, but an avoidable one if Doug Hansen and Scott Fischer had turned around at 2PM. Had either one done so, they would still be alive and had Hansen done so, Rob Hall and Andy Harris would also be alive, and likely Yasuko Namba. I will get into exactly what Krakauer was saying about Harris in a future video, as that likely could have save Harris, Hall, and Hansen.

[@alexandros8361]

@@michaeltracy2356 Thanks for answering. It elucidates it, but Im not sure I'm much clearer about it, as you imply. Its contradictory. I guess a lot of climbers without oxygen at high altitude get very confused about what happened at times. (cf Lincoln Hall). But I can work on this. Best Regards

[@ACEventura-c5z]

Some other videos expose John Krakauer's lies and how he minimizes his own actions, but it infuriates me how the misogyny against Sandy Pittman has been allowed to stand. She was a more experienced climber than Krakauer when these events took place but he acts like she's a helpless climber who had to be carried up when some of the photos used to expose his bottleneck lies show her climbing on her own. He minimizes his own actions but blows up and demonizes her to the point where she gets all the blame. It's disgusting.

[@CapitalismSuxx]

This is only the second of your videos I am watching but since you're talking about the number of oxy bottles, I'd like to add that Scott's team used old Soviet bottles, supplied by Boukreev. Problem with these was that American regulators didn't fit them properly and had to be manually adjusted... which can be a problem at altitude in the cold.

[@salzavenchura9043]

Mark Matthews rip

[@michaelg.3351]

Even Habeler slit down on his butt in 1978 to get down faster... So it appears to me as quite a double standard to portray Pittman as incompetent becase of that (as is often implied).

[@michaeltracy2356]

Some people say they saw Krakauer slide down on his butt... And Krakauer, right in front of me, hardly hesitates and he starts glissading† down on his rear in the fresh snow. And, I’m thinking that’s a good idea, so I give him maybe fifteen yards, and I’m in there right behind him.”‡ ‡ Jon Krakauer has not the same memory. He says that he “did no glissading whatsoever during the descent” and that, perhaps, Adams had mistaken Yasuko Namba for him. Adams insists it was Krakauer. Such are memories at high altitude. Boukreev, Anatoli; DeWalt, G. Weston. The Climb (p. 169). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[@marcmonnerat4850]

Many climbers did the same, e.g. _Lorétan_ and _Troillet_ in the _Hornbein_ couloir on the Everest (43 hours Base Camp round trip)

[@jakual339]

This is a fascinating video. While it's true that memories at that altitude have to be taken with a grain of salt, Gammelgaard's account is immediately plausible. The idea that a stunt was planned for the summit fills in a gaping hole in the middle of the narrative, as far as timelines and decision-making. Given what we know about the publicity situation (i.e. that Fischer had wanted Krakauer to come with him before he was underbid by Hall) it makes perfect sense that Fischer would have tried to compensate by doing something dramatic on summit day that would have had to make it into the planned article. As far as I remember, Boukreev doesn't actually give an explanation in his book for the long summit wait time. This would make sense if there's something about it he doesn't want to mention, but is trying not to distort the facts (as he understands them) beyond that. Boukreev is already reacting to what he sees as unfair judgment of his actions by outsiders who don't understand mountaineering, so it makes sense for him to have left out a stunt that would have invited such judgment on Fischer. Especially since he seems to blame planning problems (especially with the oxygen) for what happened, and would therefore have decided the stunt wasn't relevant. The author who wrote the actual text of the book (DeWalt) might not have known to question the long wait time.

[@Sollinare]

Bukreev in the book seems frustrated an puzzled by long time on the summit, even writes that he tried to make people go down. There is a chance he was not aware. Because he would probably be very mad about the idea of "stunt on the summit". In soviet sportive mountaineering tradition such things were a huge no. Long stays on the summit were a big no as a whole, as such things were known to lead to accidents on the descent. And he was a sportsman above anything else. Also, it would have pretty easy to hide from him as he was not fluent in english and worked with sherpas a lot so spent less time with clients than other guides.

[@jakual339]

@@Sollinare That makes quite a lot of sense, actually. That might also give context to Fischer's decision to have Boukreev descend to camp quickly (which was the subject of so much contention afterwards); if he wasn't in the know or wasn't fully onboard, Fischer might have thought it would be easier to send him down.

[@davidrennie8197]

The storm's progress towards Everest was known and ignored and it was not the surprise it has been depicted as. Another factor was found by scientists (possible NASA, can't recall) a while ago: meteorological conditions meant that there was less oxygen than even the usual reduced amounts.

[@Longtack55]

Some speculation about a sudden drop in atmospheric pressure in 1924 causing loss of O2 absorption by Mallory & Irvine.

[@davidwalker3626]

Did you not watch Neal Beidleman's rare and excellent interview on the Mill House Podcast a couple years ago? He is very tactful, honest, and direct, and clearly mentions how Lopsang's "dragging" of Sandy was a primary reason why Lopsang did not fix the ropes above the Balcony, which in turn caused a massive delay which was one of the main problems/mistakes of the disaster. Pittman should have simply refused the short roping. This does not make her responsible for the disaster, as obviously there are multiple reasons and factors, but reducing the criticism of her to 'misogyny' reeks of unearned virtue signaling.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I sure did see it. Why do you think he changed the entire story about the descent? So, both Krakauer made it all up? Not sure why you focus on Pittman when the guy is dropping nuclear bombs on Krakauer's narrative. Maybe listen to it again. You seem to have missed some things.

[@michaeltracy2356]

As for mysyogny... I'll give you a homework assignment. Find Krakauer's "cum" jokes in his book and comment on each of them stating why he used the "joke" and whether there is a pattern as to who he makes such jokes about. Post again without doing the homework, and you will be banned.

[@dudlydjarbum2045]

Krak was on assingment and had this material out very quickly. History has not been kind to his version of events. But by being first or one of the first and also journalists by trade raked in the sales. How many who currently climb do so because of that book?

[@Error_404_Account_Deleted]

AWESOME to see you cover this. Thanks!

[@golden1789]

Brilliant. Wonderful to have your analysis about this event.

[@tscully1504]

Very well done. I have pondered this event much over the last few years and was confused by differing accounts. I am not sure it is all completely untangled, but this has I believe improved the overall accuracy of the account.

[@krystenreid8106]

its so rare to see anyone mention Sandy Pitman without rampant misogyny.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I had started making this video about the rampant misogyny in this area, but it became just so overwhelmingly obvious that I just thought, "If people can't see this on their own, my pointing it out is not going to change their mind." For general discussion on the issue see: www.amazon.com/False-Summit-Gender-Mountaineering-Nonfiction-ebook/dp/B08X1RKCDY/

[@Tenebarum]

And welcome.

[@bucksnake]

@@michaeltracy2356 I guess you might be right in that no one for 28 years recognized the overwhelming level of mysogny by the hero’s that saved her three times during the descent where she would have unquestionably died. Sheeeesh.

[@marinareilly-collette2490]

⁠@@bucksnakeYou mean like the WOMAN who gave her the shot of dex which solved her only actual problem on the mountain, a medical condition that can happen to ANYONE and that no level of training and climbing experience at low altitude can fix? Charlotte Fox made that call without any guide telling her what to do and it was Charlotte Fox most responsible for Sandy getting down alive.

[@bucksnake]

@@marinareilly-collette2490 ah well woman can be hero’s too you know. And Charlotte certainly saved her as did the two guides. She just should not have been climbing that day. Because of her and Lopsang, the climb was delayed for hours while climbers waited in the death zone for the ropes that Lopsang was carrying. He was late because he was hauling Pitman UP Everest for hours. I think the days of labeling the deeds by men as misogynistic are coming to a rapid close. Or are you just a prolific man hater. Listen to Beidleman’s interview and then decide if he is not also a hero along with Charlotte.

[@frenchfree]

I understood that Scott had been sick with a kind of flue bug and probably had not fully recovered. It makes little sense that a climber of his caliber would be so slow (having sumitted before without oxygen) I would imagine Messner would have opinions on the use of oxygen at all after showing it could be climbed without oxygen. I agree that Krakauer has written in such a way as to promote his own ability. A passage he wrote about the village of Lobuche raised a red flag for me that he had little experience of Nepal or the Himalayas. I always considered him a "Wannabee"

[@Sparrow-qb7eu]

Are not all the authors promoting their abilities?

[@BlurnGanston]

And Scott was drinking that day.

[@davidpatrickcoggins1153]

Fair to say Thom Pollard has made a decent living or status from finding Mallory in 99. Certainly made his bread out of it, find it abit crass to be honest from the story in 99, been played out far too many times by the likes of Pollard. Not knocking their endevour and achievement but leave it where it is in 99 now The story that micheal tracey looks into regarding the routes and finer detials for 1924 and mallory/irvine etc develops the story rather than use it for some kind of barter or profit. Sorry but been bugging me for a while.

[@hayleys-c3u]

No doubt there is (and even more so back then) a fair amount of misogyny in climbing, but when I read Krakauer's book, a long time ago I admit, I remember feeling his attacking of Pittman was about her being obscenely wealthy, not being a woman. I felt through many of his general comments on all the climbers he had a bias against / jealousy of the wealthy.

[@nolslifegren]

Krak version was always self serving and opportunistic

[@pizzafrenzyman]

The mind plays dirty tricks on memories in a life threatening event. I'm sure everyone who survived that ordeal is self serving, every single one.

[@AdamAwesombrero]

@@pizzafrenzyman So what you’re saying is, is that someone like Beck Weathers, who spent the night in that blizzard on the mountain with his hands and face exposed in an open bivouac, resulting in him losing his nose, hands, and parts of his feet to frostbite, is self serving? What exactly did he do that would be self serving?

[@windycityliz7711]

@@AdamAwesombrero He did covertly blame others for "deserting" him, when actually they thought he was gone - possibly because of his own actions. (Those who were saved stayed in the huddle.) His blindness was due to a pre-existing condition that should have kept him at home. That doesn't make his walk into camp the next day into camp any less remarkable.

[@nolslifegren]

@@pizzafrenzyman Not everyone had a book to sell

[@pizzafrenzyman]

@@AdamAwesombrero ok, not beck

[@timrichardson9712]

The blame of this should be put on the leaders of each group. What plan did they have if something went seriously wrong. Mt Everest seems to have dished out some Karma of her own. Pitman did seemed a little righteous, but she wasn't calling the shots. I'm no expert but it seemed like shameless promotion was more important than the safety of everyone. Bad decisions were made, the weather was diabolical, and the mother goddess of the earth had something to say about it.

[@johnh.eickert1193]

I met Scott Fischer in the early ‘80s in the Andes. I found his laid-back optimism and cavalier attitude to be fun, refreshing. We remained in touch until ’96. This is the first I’ve heard of a “stunt.” Of course that doesn’t mean there isn’t something in this new gossip. But, if ropes were to be fixed below the Hillary step then it was not Scott’s fault they weren’t there. He was meticulous in his planning, and he openly shared his beliefs and experience in this regard. I met Anatoli several times before and after ’96. You had to patient with him, as you must be with Sherpas, as English was not his first language. A number of mountaineers, pros and amateurs alike, were unable to tolerate him for that reason. I chatted with Sandy on two occasions after ’96. She had a solid knowledge of big mountains and what they demand. And, she had an odd personality. So do I. As of ’96, rating big mountain nous among women, Wanda Rutkiewicz would be the ten, Araceli Segarra an eight and Sandy Hill-Pittman a six. For about three years after his death, I wondered what Scott was thinking that day and decided I would never know and let it go. Maybe we should all just let it go.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Thanks for sharing. It is always interesting to hear peoples personal stories about such events.

[@ferreira8649]

@@birgitmelchior8248I don’t think it’s about the language itself, it’s cultural difference is all. I have a bunch of Russian colleagues I find very hard to work with. Even though I learned to like them, for me, they come across as rude and unpleasant. It’s not that they’re bad people, we’re just raised in a different way and sometimes our personalities aren’t a good match.

[@ferreira8649]

@@birgitmelchior8248 So I think you can understand why someone like Anatoli might be difficult to “tolerate” for some people with a more western style upbringing.

[@ferreira8649]

@@birgitmelchior8248 Yeah sure, but even when we’re aware of cultural differences it’s still hard to deal with it at times. Plus the language barrier and the pressure of being in a high altitude mountain… you don’t want to be stuck there with people you find unpleasant and have trouble communicating with. Obviously I never met Anatoli, but he probably had an opinion about other climbers as well. It goes both ways. Nothing wrong with it.

[@ferreira8649]

@@birgitmelchior8248 I mean I bet he had plenty of climbing partners he was fond of and they were fond of him as well. But you know when you’re working as a guide you don’t get to choose your clients… and you’re the one getting paid, so yeah you’re the one who’s supposed to adapt. That’s nice of you to consider how he must’ve felt. But Anatoli seemed like a very tough guy who loved what he did. I think he was fine.

[@antistaticandi]

Krakauer was a great technical climber - at relatively low altitudes. The problem with Everest is that you have to be good at altitude and technical skills aren't as important. Pittman had summited Aconcagua and been on Everest two other times - she had much more high-altitude experience than he did. She was literally more qualified to be there than he was.

[@michaelamans2780]

Great analysis.

[@Chellz801]

You made this video and yet there are still comments here making the same tired arguments about why Sandy is the blame for all evil things in the world. It’s like they are hearing what they want to… Many such cases.

[@kencusick6311]

The gap between life and death is never very large but at 29,000 feet it’s razor thin. It’s saddening to see what were great challenges of human determination treated with almost casualness. Until reality reasserts itself.

[@actchickcee]

Honestly, having started researching this event without the bias of Into Thin Air or any of the media coverage from the time, I can say that the blaming of Sandy Pittman makes zero sense. I can agree she made some missteps in the time following, but missteps in the public eye and being responsible for multiple deaths are two VERY different, and VERY unrelated things. I've seen no compelling evidence that supports the notions that Pittman was unqualified or responsible for any of the delays that day. If anything, the evidence points to the expedition leaders making bad decisions that likely would have been fine if the weather hadn't turned. Sadly, it did and lives were lost.

[@tylerrichards6456]

Wow I feel bad for the lady. Good on you for doing this

[@boxtankgamer6014]

Don’t. Even if she wasn’t the sole reason for the tragedy she is still an asshole.

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@boxtankgamer6014 How do you know that? Did some nice man on the KZbin tell you? I can probably guess which nice man you listen to. Not everything you hear online is true. If a KZbin personality has you riled up enough to go post a comment like that about someone I highly suspect you do not know, you are way too influenceable by social influencers.

[@adventuresgonewrong]

@@michaeltracy2356 LOL your replies make me think I'm being wayyyy too nice in my comment section about this story. 😆

[@flowermaze___]

Very curious! Great work on piecing all this together. When can we expect the parts 2 and 3? Thanks!

[@adriennepelletier9934]

I read the scathing Vanity Fair Article in August 1996 which brutalized Sandy

[@adriennepelletier9934]

Makes me wonder the relationship between Conde Nast and outdoor magazine in 1996. Who started the narrative that she was prone to hysterics, was inexperienced and whose “short roping” diverted much needed help to those who died. Also convenient that most of the players in JKs writing either died duri g the storm or in the years afterwards.

[@allenaviation5746]

Interesting video. Good Job. Your statement, they were waiting at the summit for Scott's stunt, implies that several people knew of the stunt. Was Lene the only one to ever mention a stunt? A good investigation should include specific questions to climbers and support staff. If there was a planned stunt, somebody can confirm it and they probably even know what that stunt was.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Gammelgard states that Lobsang was explaining it to the group. It is difficult to believe that other Sherpa were not aware of it, and this could explain why they were so unhappy with Lopsang. In any case, this is not some investigative piece in which people are trying to get the "truth." Pittman and I discussed these and other events during a seventy-minute phone conversation six months after returning from Everest. Except to clarify certain points about the short-roping incident, she requested that I not quote any part of that dialogue in this book, and I have honored that request. Krakauer, Jon. Into Thin Air (p. 180). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group.

[@tropics8407]

Good corrections 👍🙏

[@Neithie]

The blame on her always made me feel strangely uncomfortable, like it was more gender based critisim, and I'm glad people are calling them out on this now.

[@rickp3753]

Wasn't gender based. She's rich.😂

[@SS-xr7jf]

⁠@@rickp3753it’s Everest. Everyone has money going there. Unless you’re going on someone else’s dime, like Krakauer.

[@rickp3753]

@@SS-xr7jf Doug Hansen was a postal worker.

[@SS-xr7jf]

@@rickp3753 who was able to pay 65 grand to climb a mountain. In 1996 money. The guy wasn’t poor.

[@rickp3753]

@@SS-xr7jf He got a drop discount to rejoin Rob Hall in 96 because they didn't summit in 95.

[@billykershaw2781]

Is that a John Martin painting used in the thumbnail? Or an A.I. look a likey?

[@Exodus-sb8so]

Oooh I like this I really need more, I definitely knew the into thin air movie was way off but not bc I know a lot bc I don't lol but I know drama and ego when I see it..

[@Sollinare]

I've read The Climb and didn't even knew the blame was assigned to Pitman. A.B. probably didn't like her, which is understandable regarding wild background differences, but she is not blamed in the book nor presented as someone unfit or underexpireinsed .

[@michaeltracy2356]

Well, you are luck you did read the other book.

[@cynthiastandley5742]

Where are the other two videos?

[@davidrennie8197]

Mr Fischer had just suffered a gastro-intestinal infection - which could account for his slow progress

[@michaeltracy2356]

If you look at the source for that, it is a guy who heard from a guy that he was taking antibiotics. The Climb p 111. While it is possible that he did indeed have a GI issue, I would not place it above speculation and rumor.

[@bobcunningham9590]

The thing is, I actually agree that the criticism of Pitman has been unfair. But, this defense of her falls into the "with friends like this, who needs enemies" category. Using database printouts to "debunk" the non-disputed accounts of people who were there is just detached.

[@michaeltracy2356]

The accounts are disputed, and as an upcoming video will show, there are photos to "debunk" them. Please stick around, I am very interested in how you will criticize the video that analyzed the photo showing the entire story that was fed to you and that you lapped up just isn't true. The video will be out later this week.

[@bobcunningham9590]

​@@michaeltracy2356 I'll watch your video. I haven't "lapped up" anything. I wouldn't have watched your video if I wasn't interested in hearing alternative accounts. I've read and watched multiple accounts from several who were there, including Sandy, and others who defend her. I came here hoping for something compelling to give a counterweight to the criticism of Sandy, which I'll agree feels at least somewhat rooted in misogyny. But the ways in which you've chosen to defend her so far do more harm than good to that cause imo. As I say, I'll watch your next video and keep an open mind. Peace.

[@Lifted_23]

"sleeping through the storm of the century that he would later become famous for reporting on"

[@bacchusman8451]

I'm not sure why this blogger would choose to bring Sir Edmund Hillary into the frame because above 8,000 metres Everest was virgin territory when he climber it. He may have "only reached 20,00 ft on his first climb on everest" but he was a member of a reconnaisance party looking for possible routes to the summit. Nothing Hillary did was "half hearted" as this blogger suggests. He attempted Everest once only and sumitted on his first attempt. No fixed ropes, no guides. And a nearly vertical rock face just below the summit

[@michaeltracy2356]

Hillary was not the first above 8000m on Everest nor was the 1953 expedition the first above 8000m on Everest South Side. The Swiss reached a little over 8500m on that route. That expedition included Tenzing, which is why Tenzing was able to find the route up for Hillary. HIs climb from the North was generally considered "half hearted" as it had no real aim and didn't really do anything. He had just failed to summit Cho Oyo and they were sort decided to go have a look at the North. You are just making stuff up.

[@PsychoKillertheGame]

Hi Mike, I do love the content, and I am no misogynist myself. I must point out that Sandy's "there were no hero's that night, they were doing what they were paid to do" comments coupled by her hotel behaviour afterwards didn't win her any social capital. This is compounded by a sherpa short roping her up towards the end (dead weight) and without Anatoli Boukreev (RIP) dragging her dead weight down ensuring her survival. Despite being experienced herself she does owe her life to those two people. I could care less for her wealth or cutting her down personally because I neither know her nor engage in such a waste of valuable life seconds. I am perplexed in some ways of your support for her given her attitude though. Is there a reason for this?

[@michaeltracy2356]

The problem is you don't have a source for any of that. Where is the source for your quote? Where is the source of her being "short ripped" "towards the end". I have a photo of her just below the summit and I'll put in in an upcoming video. And guess what? She is not being short roped. I have repeatedly pointed out in these video that things you have been told about the expedition were wrong. And you respond saying you "love the content", but completely ignore it. There is a single reference to the "paid to do" comment. And it is not a quote. It is someone paraphrasing what they think she said. www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/09/sandy-hill-pittman-mount-everest Here is the entire paragraph: Journalist Jon Krakauer, who was part of the New Zealand team and the second to summit that day, filed a raw, emotional account of the tragedy on Outside magazine’s Internet publication. Krakauer, author of the best-selling Into the Wild, has no doubt that Scott Fischer died because he was exhausted from guiding amateur climbers. Rob Hall clearly died in the act of rescuing his amateur client. But Pittman maintains that there were no heroes that night, that the guides were just doing their jobs, what they were paid to do. So, what do I think of a "Vanity Fair' piece that paraphrase what that author thinks Pittman said? Not much. It provides no supporting evidence. No actual quotes from Pittman. And when it was published in 2015 there were numerous public statements from Pittman stating that there were "heroes". www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/destinations/asia/sandy-hill-51/. "aI credit two people with saving my life: Tim Madsen, for being there after everyone had made the dash back to camp and forcing me to stay positive and alert until Anatoli finally found us; and then of course Anatoli, who was in real life the kind of person that superheroes in the movies pretend to be." That was published back in 2006, and there are other articles that she says substantially the same thing. Curiously, you say, "Despite being experienced herself she does owe her life to those two people." Ok. Great. You and Sandy Pittman agree on one thing. Now, what do I think of a subscriber who still can't spot the difference between Yak Dung and legitimate journalism? I feel like a failure. I make these videos so that people learn to think for themselves, and understand that people are pushing their own agendas. The article even tells you that they are not quoting Pittman. "After talking on background for more than an hour, Pittman declines a formal interview." And then you take something a Vanity Fair author made up to be the truth. It is just very disappointing.

[@gobbollino2688]

‘Short-rope Sandy’ 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀and counting…

[@jimc.goodfellas]

Imagine thinking its a good idea to play "pranks" at that height

[@hawkchalk]

Funny that mountain madness had 1 more oxygen bottle than adventure consultants but mountain madness used all their oxygen up regardless.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Sort of the point of having a sherpa carry your oxygen bottle all the way up the mountain is so that you can use it. They just climbed on a higher flow rate -- which is why they were climbing faster than the AC group and didn't have 5 of their group turn around.

[@paulhicks7387]

Michael, you omitted the one item. Pittman is JK's competition aka the other media soul on the climb. JK and Outside are Deity's gift to humanity while Pittman and NBC are something approaching evil. JK is not without blame, owing to his mere presence. If it were me I wouldn't have JK on any tour of mine, even if nothing to do with Outside. He's a writer, so can still write a story, even if not for Outside. How does that reality influence one's decision-making? There's this thing called your subconscious mind, aka the you that is with you (your conscious mind) every step of the way but who you never seem to meet, and so your judgment? So no JK on my tour. That for the wholly misinformed and not at all observant and their hypoxia. Sorry, not lack of oxygen but instead what happens when you need look good for your invited media members, you know, the humans who can make or break your tour's reputation. Just run a fvcking ad and include a few quotes from satisfied clients if you feel the need. Is infinitely preferable to death. I'm looking at you, Rob and Scott. Oh, and can some of you kindly stop treating JK and his Into Thin Air as if both were immutable laws of physics. JK made that nitwit, Alexander Supertramp, into a tragic hero and never mind him NOT having a plan that included an escape route out should the river rise owing to melt, rain, etc. Aka JK forgot all about inexperience. For the supreme irony: ITA when the mistakes that mattered were made by the experienced and then ITW and never mind the mind-numbering inexperience of Alexander Supertramp who got himself killed. Lastly, all one needs to know about JK, Outside, etc., is that JK was indeed sent to Everest to write about how inexperienced climbers were the bane of Everest. Yet both Rob and Scott died. As did Andy Harris. Those three as against Yasuko Namba and Doug Hanson. Doug wanted to return to camp except Rob convinced him not to. Yasuko dies because neither Rob nor Andy were available to help her. Leaving us with the immutable law of physics for Everest 1996: Experience kills. As does tour leaders obsessed with good media coverage to help with their tour sales. Re that last, the season prior, Rob and his AC had no client summit, owing to enforced turnaround time. 1996 and JK and turnaround time not enforced. You do the math.

[@willywokeup9112]

From what i read, there was almost a variety store set up at base camp, and that it was pittmans equipment to film and record and report live from everest, that those were the two reasons the sherpas were so exhausted. Also fisher was headed to the summit passing by neil bettlman ( sp) when all of his team had already summitted , so it did not make sense for him to summit so late, and by himself. I have read everyones book that wrote one whiie they were there. Beck weathers spoke in his book how the atmosphere was of a party and drinking nature and he was leary of that. He also said that the oxygen bottles had problems with the fittings being universally switched between different manufacturers and that caused delays and problems.

[@michaeltracy2356]

As I state in the pinned comment, you need to offer some explanation as to why what. you "read" is accurate. Myself and everyone else in the channel can read books just as well as you. We do not need you to write a book report for us. Now, turning to what you "read." Your sources claim the sherpas were tired from hauling Pitman's gear. Why would Rob Hall's Sherpas be carrying Sandy Pitman's gear? They are on different teams. ' Ok, Fischer summited late. If you actually watch the video, it explains why that was. He was not alone on the summit, and no one reported that he was. Lopsang was there, as I go into in this video as to why Lopsang waited. Gammelgard wrote about it, and as you claim to. have read her book, you should go back and read it again. She describes Lopsang waiting for Fischer. They then ran into Fischer shortly after that. Not sure how you missed that when you "read" the book. If you actually read Beck Weather's book, he describes how he was sucidal prior to going to Everest and that his wife felt he went to Everest just to finish it. If they only thing you took from "reading" Weathers book was that there was "partying" in base camp, you really missed out on what the book was about. Beck's mental state played a key role in his actions that day. Perhaps reread the book, as a significant portion of it is about his mental health.. In any case, Weathers does not criticize the parties, but instead actively participates. Not sure how you missed that, so I'll quote it for you: We had a couple of parties, for which we broke out the beer. Some people ended up dancing on our dining tent’s stone table. It wasn’t a mosh pit, exactly, but not unlike one. There were also theme-night dinners, when the food and its preparation and everyone’s dress were supposed to complement one team member’s salient characteristic. Weathers, Beck; Michaud, Stephen G.. Left for Dead (p. 149). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. If Weathers was so put off by all the partying, why did he keep going back to the parties?

[@alexandros8361]

​@@michaeltracy2356 Well you've certainly put new meaning into the concept of ‘your Party going up the mountain’ Michael! I wonder if some had got a little too complacent about it (Rob Halls “lucky day” as I recall. And Scott Fishers “We've got the big E totally wired” could almost be guaranteed to put the mockers on that expedition! I was puzzling over a comment a person made about cave diving to the effect of how come it changes so quickly from; “Everything is so bright and pretty and fun as they all dive deeper, and then one thing goes wrong and then suddenly it isn't ok anymore. It's dark, silted out, they’re low on air, they've lost the line and it's terrifying!” Not dissimilar to that storm coming thru that night on Everest. But I realised that in both cases, the ‘dangerous side’ was always there. Slowly increasing, almost imperceptibly. But with the potential to magnify the dangers quickly and exponentially. For climbers, a late storm / avalanche and one episode of HACE could do it! Suddenly they're all in darkness and cold, in a blizzard, with frozen fingers on frozen ropes, with hardly breathable air. There's probably a moral here, but I think it got lost in the dark somewhere too. Best wishes.

[@mattlukethompson]

Is there a separate video where you tell us what you REALLY think of Krakauer? Lmao

[@Garde538]

Perishing during an Everest disaster is difficult as is surviving one

[@amerz2477]

Excellent videos

[@Longtack55]

Misogyny features in NZ mountaineer and guide Lydia Brady's experience ascending Everest without supplemental oxygen while initially in Hall's team. It is now generally accepted she was the 1st woman to summit without extra O2, although for "various reasons" Hall et al stated she was lying. Lydia is not so egotistical she would lie about her ability, and she has climbed Eve' six times. She has many female 1st ascents of Yosemite walls to her name.

[@davidrennie8197]

Krakauer wrote about the team leader ordering his clients to wait before final ascent to let team catch up. He says he was using oxygen and getting colder for a considerable time whilst standing still.

[@michaeltracy2356]

And why do you think Hall would have said that? Did he want a big gaggle of people heading up the Hillary Step at the same time? No. Rob Hall was not a complete moron. He told Krakauer to wait because the sherpas were bringing up his oxygen and if he left before he got his oxygen he would run out above the Hillary Step and get in trouble. Well, Krakauer got impatient waiting and decided to just head on up -- who needs oxygen anyway? In any case, he ran out of oxygen, got stuck, and needed to get rescued. No problem. He is the one writing the book. He just blames it on the "fixed lines." Soon as you look at the photos, you see there was no issue with the fixed lines. Krakauer just screwed up and tried to blame it on the sherpas.

[@romankrhounek5974]

Poor Charlotte Fox survived the storm only to die at home falling over a railing

[@bobcunningham9590]

Now I'm supposed to believe that a guide giving their remaining oxygen bottle to a client on the descent is the same as "climbing without oxygen." If you're unclear on how top guides feel about guiding Everest without oxygen, I suggest watching or listening to Neal Beidleman, Reinhold Messner or Russell Brice (for starters).

[@michaeltracy2356]

You just ignore things that don't fit your "theory." Boukreev had oxygen. He climbed with it on his back. It was there if he needed it. At some point, he determined he didn't need it and gave it to someone who did. Now, your homework assignment is to state who he gave it to and when. Please do not post until you have answered that question.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Reinhold Messner is a "top guide?" Beidleman is a "top guide?"

[@bobcunningham9590]

​@@michaeltracy2356 I literally posted a link to the video of Beidleman relating the story of Boukreev giving him the oxygen bottle (and regulator, which he didn't take). What a weird "gotcha." I don't have a "theory." I have the collected recounted stories of those who were present. And you're asserting that you can tell me more about whether or not there was crowding at the steps based on a database extraction than all of those who were present. It's detached.

[@bobcunningham9590]

​@@michaeltracy2356 "top guide" is your term. I'm not sure where you're pulling it from. Both are elite mountaineers... Messner is one of the best who ever lived. To my point, having climbed the mountain on less oxygen than you brought, and giving your surplus to a struggling client isn't remotely the same thing as climbing without oxygen. To assert that it is makes you look seriously uninformed.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I pull "top guide" from you comment above... " If you're unclear on how top guides feel about guiding Everest without oxygen, I suggest watching or listening to Neal Beidleman, Reinhold Messner or Russell Brice (for starters)." You see where you posted that a couple hours ago?

[@bobcunningham9590]

Okay. I'm more than 12 minutes into this, and you've passively compared Sandy Pitman's climbing accomplishments on Everest to Tensing Norgay's and Edmund Hilary's... as if being a participant in a touring expedition is somehow comparable to trailblazing the first ever ascent to the highest place on Earth. Then you compared her times in '96 to Krakauer's, and I'm still waiting for you to at the very least mention the short-roping that has been reported by several of those who were there. At the moment, you're using a database printout to "disprove" the universally experienced crowding at the steps. Nobody disagrees about that. This is a really strange way to defend Sandy Pitman.

[@bobcunningham9590]

Okay, you mentioned the short-roping. Thank you. I hope you use it to contextualize your comparisons in climb times with other contemporary climbers and of accomplishments with Norgay and Hilary.

[@opheliaelesse]

Hm. I up to now thought of Pittman as the culprit. Might well beI was wrong. At least, I never trusted the Krakauer Ego, Thanx😁

[@bobcunningham9590]

You mention differing accounts of how Pitman descended. I'm going to go ahead and link to a lengthy interview with Beidleman, who assisted her down (she drove her crampons into his back, tearing through his down suit, when she was sliding down on her butt with his assistance) so you're no longer confused about it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oH2chnuhZt-Hm7s

[@michaeltracy2356]

Just because someone says something does not mean it is true. First, use your common sense. If someone is sliding uncontrollably down Everest and they hit someone with their crampons, do you really think the only thing that is going to happen is a ripped down suit? In any case, there is a photo taken by Beidleman showing Pittman 50-60 feet in front of him at a time he claimed to be pulling her down the mountain. You can believe tall tales of "great mountaineers." I'll believe the photographs. And you can read Beidleman's account in The Climb -- totally different from the one in Into Thin Air. It is difficult you looked into this issue at all. A social influencer told you a story -- and you believe it like a gospel.

[@bobcunningham9590]

I came here expecting something compelling. I came here sympathetic to your cause. I'm a friendly audience. I already feel like the blame that's been heaped on Sandy is not only unfair to her, but absolves the leadership of both expeditions of their culpability. If I were going to take anyone's word as gospel, it'd be someone with whom I was inclined to agree (aka: you). But my brain always questions, and so far, the case you're making isn't supporting my preconceived opinion. Maybe your next video will be more persuasive.

[@dougdavis8986]

How do you pick who's story you believe?

[@michaeltracy2356]

You see whose account matches with photos and does not require the laws of physics to be broken. Krakauer reports he was in two different places hundreds of feet apart at the same time. If someone claims to be in two places at the same time, you should not believe the story because it is not physically possible to be in two places at the same time. Not that difficult, right?

[@dougdavis8986]

@michaeltracy2356 ya, ya....how about the other 15 variations, which are all different in the details. Yours is just another in the 'recent spat of videos about it'.

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@dougdavis8986 You are the one asking the question. I answer it, and then you say you don't want the answer. Did you not want to know how to "pick whose story you believe?" Well, take the 15 different versions and analyze them. Or just cry like a little baby and say there are 15 different versions.

[@dougdavis8986]

@michaeltracy2356 the answer is, you're just trying to get clicks so you have to throw more bs into the ring. Everyone that was on the mountain has their version of what happened and that was their reality. The armchair quarterbacks can Crack a beer, watch the highlight reel and pretend they know what happened. Just like all the rednecks do after the latest football game. Keep preachin' dude, I get a kick out of it.

[@simbalantana4572]

The same way you decide anything. You analyze all the facts available.

[@TheSaxon.]

I wouldn't put blame on Sandy. People just don't like her because of her conduct, opinions and her unjustified levels of arrogance.

[@hansschmidt1961]

While Pittman (not Pitman) was not to blame for the disaster she was and has been her own worst enemy after the event. All she had to do is humbly acknowledge the fact that she would be dead without the aid of Beidleman, Bougreev and Charlotte Fox. At least Krakauer owned his significant weaknesses. This aspect of the disdain for her has nothing to do with supposed "misogyny".

[@michaeltracy2356]

She disputes the actions of Beidleman. I didn't see you listed on the expedition list. So, you believe the statements from someone. Who? Who has provided you with the "true" version of what happened? You believe the big strong man who tells you his story. And the woman -- well, she must be lying when she says that one of the big strong men (Beidleman) did not do the heroic actions he claims to have performed. Why do you believe one version rather than the other? Beidleman didn't tell you about the "stunt." Clearly, there are things he didn't tell you. Krakauer hid in his tent and was just asked to stand outside and bang some pots together. This was too much for him to assist in saving the lives of others. Krakauer never acknowledged he would be dead if he hadn't been helped down. Instead, he deleted that part from his speech. But, I don't see you blaming Krakauer. Who is worse? Krakauer for deleting his own rescue which he openly admitted took place? Or Pittman for failing to conform to what you believe is the truth?

[@michaeltracy2356]

From the Himalayan Database: Krakauer of Hall's team 17 May 96: "Beidleman did amazing job saving the lives of his clients" but Sandy Hill Pittman disagrees. Krakauer was passed out asleep and claimed to have been completely unaware of anything that took place that night. Pittman was awake and saw the whole thing. And you believe the man who slept.

[@michaeltracy2356]

According to Krakauer, Beidleman is the one that screwed the group over... Wanting to avoid the dangerous ice pitch, Beidleman led his group on an indirect route that looped far to the east, where the slope was much less steep, and around 7:30 they safely reached the broad, gently rolling expanse of the South Col. Krakauer, Jon. Into Thin Air (p. 215). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. So, Beidleman made the decision to take them away from the route so no one could find them. Supposedly to avoid this "dangerous ice pitch" -- the same one that Krakauer just saw someone just slide down and that Krakauer threw his backpack down -- it slid down and came to rest. So, there was nothing "dangerous" about it. They could have just slid down. But Beidleman decided to have them walk down the long way around. You can say he was at altitude and wasn't thinking straight. But you can also say that if Beidlemen hadn't done it, they would have gotten back much faster. So, I don't see Beidlement being essential to saving anyone. Had he not been there, they would have slid down the ice slope just like other climbers and got back to camp or at least been directly on the trail and just a short distance from camp.

[@hansschmidt1961]

Why has she never mentioned that she was in jeopardy? Immediately after the climb, in Katmandu, why did she openly brag about Oprah Winfrey calling her but stated that no one died from her group, completely ignoring the death of Scott Fischer? Why did she not publicly acknowledge an ounce of gratitude to Boukreev for saving her life? "Which gentleman is that?" was her only response. Or do you deny that fact as well? So where is her book? Where is her "truth"?

[@michaeltracy2356]

I have a photo of her at Fischer memorial in Kathmandu, so it is not clear how she "ignored" the death of Scott Fischer. You also might want to watch this video where makes it clear that Pittman kept her mouth shut about the "stunt" to protect Fischer. If she really didn't care about Fischer and was the self-absorbed narcissist you were programmed to believe, why didn't she just. say, "We were all late because Scott had some bing stunt planned on the summit." You seem to believe whatever social media tells you. You receive a version of the story that fits some narrative being crafted for you, and you simply believe it. There are social influencers and you are the socially influenced. Others are not as guidable as you. In this channel, you need facts to support your position. Your second part contains misinformation. This is the real quote: In a subsequent telephone conversation, when asked about her apparent lack of appreciation toward the two gentlemen who had saved her life, Pittman responded tersely: “Which two gentlemen is that?” www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/09/sandy-hill-pittman-mount-everest You just leave out the part about the two and focus on the one -- spreading your misinformation. Pittman disputes Beidleman's role. Beidleman made a decisions that likely made things much worse and probably cost Yasuko her life. You gloss over that. Instead, you falsely quote something. Pittman does not dispute what Bourkreev did . She disputes what Krakauer says Beidleman did. Thus, when asked about the TWO people who. saved her, she does not know who this is referring to because she has clearly stated that she disputes Beidlman's account. You choose to believe Krakauer's version. The man who slept. I choose to make up my own mind and look at the facts rather than simply be told what to think by others. You misquote another source and you will be banned for spreading misinformation. And for your arrogant, "Or do you deny that fact as well? " Yes. I do. You misquoted it. Or do you deny that fact as well?

[@horizon1460]

La gloire ce n’est pas de ne pas tomber ! C’est de se relever à chaque fois on tombes ! 😂

[@vestland3877]

The mountain want you dead regardless. Plenty of very good climbers that is part of the mountain today.

[@teacherella1338]

Nah, the mountain isn’t alive. It’s hubris. Also, one should be aware that climbing into a death zone could very well be your death. As I understand it, the Nepalese government hands out permits too readily as they are dependent on the revenue from tourism. Too many people think they can do it, that is the reason why so many have died and will die in the future.

[@vestland3877]

@@teacherella1338 nature doesn’t care if you live or die. Aka - the conditions on the mountain wants you dead.