Everest Base Camp Trek, 5 things you should know before going - How to prepare, where to stay & gear

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The Trail Hunter

The Trail Hunter

5 жыл бұрын

I can't wait to share this with you! I literally went to Nepal last minute for the Everest Base Camp Trek and had no idea what I was doing, or what to expect. I didn't know where in Kathmandu to stay, where to buy gear or how to prepare.
I learned so much in my month in Nepal trekking through the Himalayas, like where to go shopping for gear, the prices of things, haggling skills, what the flight to Lukla is like and how to get hold of the right permit like the TIMs card.
In this video, I'll go over all of this, plus how to get a helicopter ride to Lukla, how to make sure you bring the right hiking gear with you, where to find Thamel, the hiking district of Kathmandu and a really good place to stay as well.
The trekking company I used
www.magicexpeditiontravel.com/
Map to Z-Street
bit.ly/2TqfxJc
The best place to buy gear - Sherpa Mall - Durbarmarg
bit.ly/2HwvegB
BTW, I MADE THIS INCREDIBLE BIT OF GEAR
Check it out! thrunotes.co.uk
Kit list as of June 2020:
Backpacks
Atom+: bit.ly/31oHlFF
ULA Circuit: bit.ly/37XbigX
SHELTERS
Stratospire 2: bit.ly/317A9gS
Zpacks Solplex: bit.ly/2CtyJmr
SLEEP SYSTEMS
Katabatic Sawatch: bit.ly/3fWSxNM
Katabatic Palisade: bit.ly/3ewt5OL
Neoair Xlite: bit.ly/2YrKSB4
FOOTWEAR
Altra Lone Peak 4.0: bit.ly/2B5fHm8
Gaiters - Altra gaiters: bit.ly/37ViBFY
CLOTHING
Waterproof shells
Rohan Helix: bit.ly/37ZKbSo
OR Helium 2: bit.ly/3fVmzBq
Frogg Toggs: bit.ly/2Nqlrth
Insulated jackets
Patagonia Micropuff Hoodie: bit.ly/2YwQZ7f
Trespass Rustler: bit.ly/3i0HODx
Base layers
Ice Breaker base layer: bit.ly/3eGSdlG
Shirts
Rohan Expedition: bit.ly/388teWl
Shorts
Patagonia Striders: bit.ly/2Npw2EX
Hats
REI desert cap: bit.ly/3hWUKdJ
Berghaus beanie: bit.ly/31dGvvi
Sunglasses
Sungods: bit.ly/2zZ0wKG
Gloves
Salomon gloves: bit.ly/2ByVMMf
Ski gloves: bit.ly/383TCQX
Socks
Injinjis: bit.ly/3dwpmPG
Darn Toughs: bit.ly/3hX28G2
Sealskinz: bit.ly/3hXAnNG
NB Flat Knit: bit.ly/31e0Dx1
Mosquito net
Smidge: bit.ly/2B8d9DH
Buff
Camino Buff: bit.ly/31awGho
FILM AND SOUND
Phone
iPhone 11 Pro Max: bit.ly/2NosT83
Drones
DJI Mavic Air 2: bit.ly/31oIn4v
DJI Mavic Air 1: bit.ly/2VbNn8E
Cameras
Canon M50: bit.ly/3eyCPrQ
Sony RX100V: bit.ly/2NqQOUy
Mics
Röde Micro: bit.ly/2Npt1nX
Tripods
Gorilla Pod 1K: bit.ly/31c74Rf
Gorilla Pod 500: bit.ly/3ewApts
Manfrotto Action: bit.ly/2Ys689O
NAVIGATION
GPS units
Garmin InReach Mini: bit.ly/384Keg4
Garmin GPS Map 66i: bit.ly/3dxY4bI
Compass
Silva Field: bit.ly/31aS3iD
WATER TREATMENT
Filter
Sawyer Squeeze: bit.ly/2YwRJt3
Purifying drops
Aquamira drops: bit.ly/3euuQM9
Water storage
Cnoc Vecto 2L: bit.ly/31e1AFB
ELECTRONICS
Power banks
20,000mah: bit.ly/2NnBQyA
13,000mah: bit.ly/3hZhvOg
GPS tracking watch
Garmin Forerunner 35: bit.ly/3drJUc9
Wall chargers
UK : bit.ly/2BxbgQW
US : bit.ly/3dpUIrb
Data
Apple SD reader: bit.ly/2VfnnsW
EQUIPMENT
Lights
NU25: bit.ly/2Z5S70p
H2R Nova: bit.ly/2BB5fCV
Tiki: bit.ly/3hXBKfi
Ice axe
Grivel Helix: bit.ly/2Z6e0Nm
Trekking poles
Alpine Carbon Cork: bit.ly/3hXWiUL
Traction
Microspikes: bit.ly/3fQC5hV
Stove
MSR Pocket Rocket 2: bit.ly/2Vfl4WL
Spoons and knives
TITO titanium spoon: bit.ly/3ey0oAT
Victorinox mini classic: bit.ly/2Yr7dP8
Poop trowel
Deuce of Spades trowel: bit.ly/3i7H3c6
Sit pad
Kumfie pad: bit.ly/3euvJnX
Tent stakes
Tarptent stakes: bit.ly/3hZik9O
MSR Mini Ground Hogs: bit.ly/3ew7VAe
OEX Y-shaped stakes: bit.ly/31bAnnd
Tent poles
Zpacks carbon fibre tent poles: bit.ly/3du14pM
Ground sheet
Polycryo ground sheet: bit.ly/37XLmBW
STORAGE
Pack liners and pods
Atom Packs DCF pack liner: bit.ly/2YrMPxo
Heacy-duty rubble sacks: bit.ly/31dqPba
Dry bags and stuff sacks
Sea to Summit 4L Nano: bit.ly/3hVi8Z3
OEX 2L dry bag: bit.ly/3dx6qjX
Katabatic Gear silynylon stuff sack: bit.ly/3expU9n
Pouches and wallets
Zpacks DCF Wallet: bit.ly/2VgbQcL
Zpacks DCF utility pouch: bit.ly/2CuHAEq
Food storage
Loksak OPSak: bit.ly/2Nq2VkD
Ziploc freezer bags: bit.ly/2Z8GOVz
MISC ITEMS
Bodyglide: bit.ly/2Nt5Wka
Carmex lip balm: bit.ly/31bqBRW
Lifesystems Nano first aid kit: bit.ly/37XVv1v
#everestbasecamptrek #nepaltrekking #himalayas
FOLLOW ME:
Website: www.thetrailhunter.com/
Insta: / the_trailhunter
Twitter: / the_trailhunter

Пікірлер: 98
@nobodyhikes
@nobodyhikes 5 жыл бұрын
I never thought about hiking to base camp as I always associated it with summiting. Research can be very time-consuming, so thank you for streamlining this information.
@himalayaholidayservice5796
@himalayaholidayservice5796 4 жыл бұрын
#visitNepal2020
@sophiescyclingandwalkingch4294
@sophiescyclingandwalkingch4294 3 жыл бұрын
Our flight to Lukla was cancelled and we took a helicopter too. So good advice 👍🏻.
@saurabh222
@saurabh222 4 жыл бұрын
While I do agree you can haggle a bit. But if you come from a developed nation a few cups of coffee worth really should not be a problem. It’s probably worth a lot more for them. Specially, support Sherpa. Their contribution to Himalayan mountaineering is unparalleled.
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
Sure. What I mean is paying heavily bumped up tourist prices or getting scammed vs paying a fair price.
@unaninanine3743
@unaninanine3743 2 жыл бұрын
Coming from a developed country shouldn't translate to being gouged. Besides, not haggling is extremely condescending and patronising. Haggling is a positive social interaction if you only knew.
@marcmanitou4182
@marcmanitou4182 3 жыл бұрын
Besides endless gear lists people should be informed about better alternate trails instead of just telling them to go through Tengpoche both up and down. The high trail which goes Mong La - Phortse - Pangpoche on the opposite side of the valley is much better in many ways than the unimaginative motorway practically everybody is using. Also going to Ama Dablam Base camp and sleeping in Mingbo Lodge can replace the first night in Dingpoche (same altitude) and add some exclusivity to the trek without any extra time or financial cost.
@chanthataing7042
@chanthataing7042 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks! The helicopter tip was a good one!
@JasonDFD3S
@JasonDFD3S 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome tips!!!
@kevinhsu8184
@kevinhsu8184 Жыл бұрын
Great tip. We flew to Lukla via a helicopter with two pilots! It was amazing. Then we changed to a helicopter that can handle higher altitude and headed to base camp! It was the best experience ever! I will never forget the crazy landscape at the basecamp…. It felt like I was at Mars or some place out of this world! Maybe next time we will fly to Annapurna….via helicopter of course! Lol
@lloydwhite3198
@lloydwhite3198 4 жыл бұрын
GLAD WE SUBSCRIBED. SUPER INTELL , AND WELL DELIVERED. Godspeed.
@EarlyDawnTravels
@EarlyDawnTravels 5 жыл бұрын
Excellent video!! We are planning to go in October. I didn’t even know helicopter was an option!
@CruiseTalk
@CruiseTalk 3 жыл бұрын
Hello Early Dawn Travels! Did you get to go on your 2020 trek. I went in Nov-Dec 2019 and was planning to return in May 2020, but it was cancelled due to COVID restrictions. I look forward to returning. Happy trekking.
@EarlyDawnTravels
@EarlyDawnTravels 3 жыл бұрын
@@CruiseTalk We went in 2019. It was awesome, we have a whole vlog series about it. 🤙🏼
@CruiseTalk
@CruiseTalk 3 жыл бұрын
@@EarlyDawnTravels Awesome! I will head over to your channel and will watch and sub. I went in 2019 also. Just start publishing some of the vids. Great to connect with you!
@SB-iz8sz
@SB-iz8sz 3 жыл бұрын
Hoping to go to Everest and Mt Kailash once this Covid Business is under control. Thanks for all the information🕉 Good to know about the Helicopter🌈
@CruiseTalk
@CruiseTalk 3 жыл бұрын
Hi SB. I am with you on that. I went just before Covid and was planning to go again in May 2020, but it was cancelled due to Covid. Hope you have a great journey!
@ChaseMountains
@ChaseMountains 5 жыл бұрын
Also great advice about the haggling I’m terrible at it. Hard to get practise in the western world hahah
@gunghoadventures871
@gunghoadventures871 Жыл бұрын
Awesome
@lauramaloney9593
@lauramaloney9593 2 жыл бұрын
I like these ideas
@matrixi4i
@matrixi4i 4 жыл бұрын
Great info . Thanks for sharing . April 2020
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
Ahh thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed it.
@pauljsmall7673
@pauljsmall7673 5 жыл бұрын
Wow great advice about the helicopter flight ! I didn’t even know it was an option 🤷🏽‍♂️ . Not too bad price wise either.
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 5 жыл бұрын
Cheers, Paul. Yeah it’s a really cool ride and worth it. Just haggle as much as you can. The return flight via plane was around the same price anyway.
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 5 жыл бұрын
When you thinking of heading out there?
@pauljsmall7673
@pauljsmall7673 5 жыл бұрын
The Trail Hunter I’m planning on going the 1st week of December Russ .
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 5 жыл бұрын
Ahh fantastic. Good luck with the planning. Any questions, give me a shout. 👍
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL 2 жыл бұрын
Good tips
@ammonwalker2418
@ammonwalker2418 3 жыл бұрын
0:12 I was like...so that was your tip? Fantastic video though 😂 thanks fam.
@ChaseMountains
@ChaseMountains 5 жыл бұрын
Oh dude, you should have found my channel before you went to Kathmandu 🤣 I love your map graphics 👌and your camera looks smoooooth 👍
@AJ-lw6jf
@AJ-lw6jf 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video man, what do you recommend of how to get physical prepare for the trip? What kind of exercises, nutrition stuff, etc..
@marcmanitou4182
@marcmanitou4182 3 жыл бұрын
Just basic fitness is enough, if you can walk 15 km with your pack consecutive days you are good to go. How you acclimate you can not know beforehand, and that matters much more up there. I am slightly overweight, do not do any cardio, over 60 years old, but I am still faster than anybody (westerner) up there because I acclimate so well. Been there (Khumbu) 5 times so far.
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL 2 жыл бұрын
In Kathmandu, you can take buses to other touristy cities.
@hikingzone
@hikingzone 2 жыл бұрын
Useful Thank you How long will take to walk from lukla to Base camp ???
@alexbrunt9154
@alexbrunt9154 2 жыл бұрын
Should i book a tour online before arriving in Nepal or just wait until i get there then tie up with Magic Expeditions or another tour operator. Trying to figure out if its cheaper to wait until I get there. thanks
@Wassily.
@Wassily. 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Russel thanks for your video. If a flight is cancelled from Kathmandu to Lukla (which is around 300£ round trip I think?) do you still need to pay again to book another flight or you can just go to the office there and just rebook for the next day or something?
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Wassily. Good question. So, my trekking company refunded me the money for the flight as I then took a helicopter instead. In my opinion, it's better to just go for the helicopter as the heli can fly in cloudy conditions, the planes will most likely be delayed and canceled. In terms of whether they'll push you onto another flight without extra charge, it'll be the discretion of the airline you go with, there's only 2 or 3.
@Wassily.
@Wassily. 3 жыл бұрын
The Trail Hunter Thank you very much for your quick reply! Great insight, I think you’re right, the heli option is absolutely worth it, thanks again :)
@davidcooksley2154
@davidcooksley2154 2 жыл бұрын
No need to go via agent. Very simple do your self.Purchase L.P. Trekking Himalayas, all info there.Buy map on street ,walk in ,walk out,no delays on bus and save alot money from air fares.You will be in shape,some what acclimatized as gone over pass higher than Namche, and seen Everest (providing clear weather) between Junbesi and Nanthala meetings at Cheplong the crowds coming down from Lukla.Do not be in hurry allow much extra days as possible. Enjoy.
@vs123
@vs123 11 ай бұрын
I like Everlast mountain
@ivanleone82
@ivanleone82 3 жыл бұрын
Cheers man
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 3 жыл бұрын
Nice one Ivan!
@dimpidarlami163
@dimpidarlami163 4 жыл бұрын
Good
@jasonmaddison6148
@jasonmaddison6148 3 жыл бұрын
hi mate wat was a roughprice of total costs .thamx
@John-Adam
@John-Adam 5 жыл бұрын
You make me think of Sean O'Connell in the movie The Secret Life of Walter Mitty!! Kathmandu is one of my next destination...I keep in mind all these good tips for my trip! Thanks mate!
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 5 жыл бұрын
Haha I will have to watch that film! Thanks for watching. Any q’s. Let me know.
@benjaminharrison8272
@benjaminharrison8272 2 жыл бұрын
How much was your trip up to everest Base Camp...I'm booked to go In November for 3 months..I'm considering doing it
@phillipdavey702
@phillipdavey702 2 жыл бұрын
Hey, When are you going to post again? I miss seeing what you're up to. I hope your health is ok. Take care.
@monarchsharma2907
@monarchsharma2907 3 жыл бұрын
There is a North face showroom in Kathmandu
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL 2 жыл бұрын
A country like Nepal relies heavily on tourism. I would like to give some business to porter, guide and trekking company if I go to Nepal.
@adventureridervijayakumarr1708
@adventureridervijayakumarr1708 2 жыл бұрын
Dream To Visit this year with Himalayan Base Camp Team
@kendalltanner4466
@kendalltanner4466 4 жыл бұрын
Rus, thanks for sharing... How much would recommend a person save up financially to an enjoyable experience there?
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Kendall, sure so the return flights to Kathmandu are currently about £600, plus let's say £1,000 for the guide, accommodation and flights to and from Lukla, plus I'd say about £150 for spending money on the trek. So you're looking at around the £2,000 mark, plus any extra spending money in between. But it can cost less for sure depending on deals, whether you take a guide, how much food you buy up there etc. Hope that helps! Russ
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
P.S. you'll want good travel insurance which covers you for helicopter rescue of altitudes up to 6,000M which can be quite expensive. Check out World Nomads, they're a really popular insurer.
@kendalltanner4466
@kendalltanner4466 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your response. Very insightful.
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL Жыл бұрын
Did you hire one personal Sherpa guide and one porter?
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL
@KPGLIKESTOTRAVEL 2 жыл бұрын
Always prepare extra money for taking helicopter flights when needed in case of poor weather or your sickness.
@NemoMangelk
@NemoMangelk 2 жыл бұрын
How much?
@samanthat6004
@samanthat6004 4 жыл бұрын
Hi. I mean choosing the trekking company to join for this trek. I am looking at numerous trekking companies offering similar itineraries. How to choose and find real reference om the web? // Samantha
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Samantha. I just turned up in Nepal and the Airbnb host I was with ran a trekking company also. I was on the trail I. 3 days. They’re called Magic expeditions.
@samanthat6004
@samanthat6004 4 жыл бұрын
@@thetrailhunter4469 thanks. Is this the Link? www.magicexpeditiontravel.com/tours/everest-base-camp-trek/ Really appreciate any recommendation from you.
@alejandroberman
@alejandroberman 5 жыл бұрын
hey, great video! do you have any trekking agency that you can recommend? i'm thinking about doing this trek this sept 19! :)
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 5 жыл бұрын
Sure, the one I went with is in the description www.magicexpeditiontravel.com/ Thanks for watching and good luck with your trek, any questions, give me a shout :) Russ
@mingology7767
@mingology7767 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah! I will book helicopter, US$300 is small price to pay for not stuck in airport with no visibility of your next fixed wing flight to Lukla.
@NordicPolestar
@NordicPolestar 4 жыл бұрын
Did you have to pay for that pole that you snapped.
@zohaibqadir832
@zohaibqadir832 5 жыл бұрын
Awesome info. What camera did you used
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
I used a Sony RX100 Mk 5. Thanks for watching!
@zohaibqadir832
@zohaibqadir832 4 жыл бұрын
@@thetrailhunter4469 bro. Its worth watching.... Keep up the good work
@philipheubeck6314
@philipheubeck6314 3 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure someone who still needs to buy such basics as sleeping bag, tent, shoes etc. ought to hike to the basecamp of friggin' Mt. Everest in the first place...?!
@galdensherpa3234
@galdensherpa3234 3 жыл бұрын
Responsibility of guide! Guide! What really it means? Lots of people might not know what guide is but it's not a new word for those who are involved in tourism industries. in simple language guide is a person who leads travellers or tourist through unknown or unfamiliar locations. Not only that a guide is believed as a reprehensive of the company he works for and also an ambassador of the country. Anyone can be guide, but to be a good guide is the main part. To guide on an unknown or unfamiliar location is not only the features of a guide. A guide should have Moral character professional respect, responsibility & Habits behavior general knowledge of the field & skills to handle a team. But for me a guide is not just a guiding people, a guide is a caretaker or parents who shows the right path taught the journey and take cares their team members & whole staff like kids. As we everyone knows that parents never complaints to their children beside many problems, just like that guide also face lots of problems through the journey, he does his duty, shows respect to the guest and keeps smiling all the time and also take cares of all the team like family. I don't mean that entire guide is same but some of them are not doing their duty very well, as lots of time on journey we hear that the guide had left the guest on the half way, it's completely unprofessional and it affects our Tourism industry. A guide is the backbone of the tourism industry and Tourism is the 2nd backbone of our nation, I feel shy to say that lots of people are in these professions but only few people are professional and some of them are just running the image of the Tourism industry.. And lots of tourist they don't know what really guide means, some of the tourist they think that they have paid money to company and they have bought them. it's not right. The guide is there to show you the way, to point out the famous mountains, landmarks and of course dangers. They are there to keep you safe, to fascinate you with tales of local lore and wild adventures. They are there to make you comfort and ease your difficult situations & give best possible experience on your trek that's why they are always very polite and helpful. So I think guide should be treat with respect and acknowledge the experience and wisdom they possess. We all know that lots of tourist travel without guide have lost their friend & their life too & sometime couldn't complete the dream for which they have waited for a long time. I think the government should make rule to take guide compulsory or else they can't go certain region for trek just for their safety. in that case for sure tourist will understand as well and will follow the rule. Because when a tourist dies in our country the news spreads everywhere on social medias and people won't visit Nepal once they read such news. And if we have such rules many guides won't be jobless and the tourism industry will be systematic which will help to increase the economy of our nation. And at last once again I want to let everyone know that guiding people on journey is not only guide, he takes responsibility of the whole team, takes cares of the team members, arrange accommodation and bring you safely to fulfill your dream of the journey. And both guide and guest should have mutual understanding and respect 🙏 between each other. 🙏 And to all the readers and Friends who are in tourism industry, I heartily request please always be loyal and respect your professions. Thank you, Galden Sherpa!!!
@marcmanitou4182
@marcmanitou4182 3 жыл бұрын
Still these highbrow guides have created the helicopter rescue scam, making trekkers sick on purpose, calling a helicopter and getting $1500 kickback from every "rescued" trekker. Some guides boast earning up to $30000 per year from these fake rescues/insurance frauds, ruining treks for thousands of their customers ever year. In -89 there were 70 helicopter rescues per 100000 trekkers, in 2019 there were 3500 rescues per 100000 trekkers. Trekkers are not getting sicker, guides are.
@Daveluvutube
@Daveluvutube 4 жыл бұрын
Remember do not get bacterial dysentery 😂😭 namche hospital is very nice
@masterofnone8400
@masterofnone8400 2 жыл бұрын
Did u just say Kathmandu was as big as london😅, it only has a million ppl!!
@PedroGonzalez11111
@PedroGonzalez11111 3 жыл бұрын
Helicopter is great and more fun as you say, but inherently more dangerous than travelling by plane if you’re looking at stats. Thus, I find it hard that you encourage this mode of transport as the “better” alternative in bad weather. In truth, the management companies of the helicopters are more willing to travel, at times when the planes are not. By all means take the chopper but don’t suggest this is safer by any gauge of measurement. I’d rather be on a plane in bad weather, than a helicopter.
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 3 жыл бұрын
Take the plane. Helicopter is better though in my opinion.
@PedroGonzalez11111
@PedroGonzalez11111 3 жыл бұрын
The Trail Hunter I agree it is more fun and easier, just not safer, notwithstanding the small runway.
@_S.H_
@_S.H_ 4 жыл бұрын
I would rather head straight to Lukla and sleep the first night there rather than sleeping in Katmandu when I arrive to Nepal.
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
Then that is what you shall do. 👍
@_S.H_
@_S.H_ 4 жыл бұрын
@@thetrailhunter4469 Just thought it would better help with the acclimation 🤔
@lear6230
@lear6230 4 жыл бұрын
The problem is that the airport in Kathmandu is the only international one so if you arive from a different country you have to go to KTM first
@_S.H_
@_S.H_ 4 жыл бұрын
@@lear6230 I know. I would book my Lukla flight to leave few hours after arriving Kathmandu.
@thetrailhunter4469
@thetrailhunter4469 4 жыл бұрын
Good luck with your trip. 👍
@dongilliam656
@dongilliam656 3 жыл бұрын
Don't waste your time with this pap
@truetothegame2928
@truetothegame2928 5 жыл бұрын
dont haggle; pay the price !
@turkyish
@turkyish Жыл бұрын
No, you get ripped off in those shops
@truetothegame2928
@truetothegame2928 Жыл бұрын
@@turkyish dont go to the country then...
@averagejoegrows
@averagejoegrows 2 ай бұрын
hey did you use a guide ??
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