Everything WRONG With The Guns In Starfield

[@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy]

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[@OleDirtyMacSanchez]

BrandyBoy, Bethesda had higher aspirations and the Quik Kit Bash Rifle is what we got instead.

[@OleDirtyMacSanchez]

Bethesda ran out of time. Assault Rifle, the SMG, and the way the Combat Rifle and Combat Shotgun are what we're left with as a result of running out of time. Had they started working on what it was when Fallout 4 was first starting to be made and not toward the end, we would've gotten way more than what we got if they had been working on their idea and plans from the beginning instead of toward the end.

[@OleDirtyMacSanchez]

Bethesda's original intention for the Combat Rifle was to have it be an interchangeable system. Convert into a Marksman Configuration, a Battle Rifle Configuration, a Shotgun Configuration, a SMG Configuration. There are unused Weapon assets in Fallout 4's files for the Combat Rifle for a Pistol Grip, Thumbhole Pistol Grip type Skeleton Stock, Long Heavy Barrel, a certain very distinct Muzzle Break, and different sizes of Magazine for different Calibers. The original source of the assets for the Combat Rifle were from the DKS-550, which was the Sniper Rifle in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

[@OleDirtyMacSanchez]

Hell the way the SMG (Thompson) was going to be used and setup originally was differently planned. It was originally supposed to be found mostly on the Gangster NPCs in Fallout 4. There were supposed to be more quests involving the Gangsters, they were also supposed to be a miner faction. Plans change, and we get the short end of the stick.

[@ghost4144]

The batteries on the weapon are for igniting the propellant. Most of the big blocks on those guns that are useless are batteries for igniting the propellant, similar to that of the Metal Storm.

[@someguy2819]

18:53 Bethesda: This is a round bullet. Can you guess which hole that goes in? Players: The circle hole? Bethesda: That's right. It goes in the square hole.

[@draketurtle4169]

The best reference

[@Charlie-dx6bv]

I could hear that in my head

[@Albtraum_TDDC]

@@Charlie-dx6bv including the screaming protests

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

I was thinking the same thing the entire time

[@halvorson566]

Todd Howard has done it again folks!!

[@generalgrant2003]

You missed 1 thing about the AK: The selector is set to semi-auto yet it fires in full-auto.

[@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy]

That's it. I demand a refund

[@generalgrant2003]

@@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy Glad I didn't buy this dumpster fire

[@RafPlaysAnythin]

those weapons on semi auto are a bethesda culture now bro

[@Rorschach1998]

​@@generalgrant2003This game feels Ai generated, i swear these Pea-Brains know nothing about firearms and still decided to make a FPS.

[@generalgrant2003]

@@Rorschach1998 I think Butt-thesda has the worst weapon modeling team of any AAA company on the planet.

[@CrypticCode97]

I just realized that some of the barrel holes are square because the designer thought the caseless ammo fires the whole bullet

[@Ivor8]

Tf is goin on at Bethesda man

[@Chretze]

@@Ivor8 diversity and inclusion, that's what's going on

[@Ivor8]

@@Chretze that clearly isn't the issue as the decline started way before inclusion was profitable, and by saying it is you give Bethesda dick riders ammunition to write off all criticism of the company and its products as anti-woke rhetoric. If you want something better you need to be organized with your criticisms instead of screaming into that anti-woke echo chamber that the marketing department conveniently built for you. Don't fall into that trap.

[@DTex.45ACP]

...caseless ammo does fire the whole bullet because that's literally what comes out of the barrel. I'm guessing you meant the whole cartridge?

[@Chretze]

@@Ivor8 idk mate, these games aren't nearly important enough for me to warrant any further investment of my energy into crafting more fitting arguments about their shortcomings. They do commit to diversity and inclusion and all the other woke nonsense and pointing that out is exactly the level of quality response these muppets deserve. There is exactly nothing wrong with anti-woke rhetoric so if blue touchy blue haired queers complain about it then let them who cares, I won't even pretend as if their opinions matter to me

[@enderkatze6129]

If i had to guess, 15 people were involved in creating these guns. 5 to create the models, 5 to animate in first person, and 5 to animate in third Person. And NONE of them ever exchanged a single damn word to eachother.

[@desran4447]

People? I assumed they used machine learning algorithms. I, mean, it would explain how all the parts which do absolutely nothing appeared

[@retingo7940]

Nah, probably 2-3 created the designs and models, and 1 or 2 each for the animations

[@o.w.n.1327]

I like to imagine its one of those like rooms you have in the university for group of people to do a project and they have a big glass window to see the insides. But no one can see their work because computers are far away from the window and the noise doesn't go through so they have to explain things by making hand gestures and such.

[@jamesm6638]

@@desran4447 I think that's more of a side effect of it being 2024 and a lot of people have basically 0 experience with guns anymore. They just think slapping random greebles onto something makes it cool. Bunch of soulless corporate garbage.

[@windowsxp9120]

They asked if I had a degree in theoretical gun design. I said I have a theoretical degree in gun design, they said welcome aboard.

[@Pestondemand]

Hi my names Todd Howard, welcome aboard to starfield development

[@Fanboy_of_everything]

The best FO game is recognized, a true gigachad

[@lennyface5314]

Fantastic gun design

[@williamlazenby314]

Thanks for the laugh!

[@bakruptfern329]

​@@lennyface5314dude 🤣

[@con_zur]

I find it wild that Bethesda can get weirdly specific details down like telescoped and caseless ammo but fails to animate the breach of a pump action

[@NeiZaMo]

The artists are working with reference images of real weapons and weapon parts but don't understand how they are put together or function. Even if they did have somewhat of an understanding of guns, they had the job of designing ones which look quite different from the guns they would be familliar with. Most likely at a pace which would be challanging even for someone with extensive engineering experience. So they did what they could to hopefully make the guns look right enough to get a pass from the average player who doesn't obsess about the details of the fictional guns in their videogame. And lets be honest, they succeeded at that.

[@water1374]

@@NeiZaMo Even then, it's still wild. Caseless ammunition is a detail that the average player probably wouldn't notice or care about since most sci-fi games use cased ammunition anyway. It's just bizarre that they can get cool, tiny little details like that right and then mess up major details on real world guns that they, as video game gun designers, should probably know by default.

[@NeiZaMo]

@@water1374 they obviously did some research before designing the guns and it's not that hard to stumble over the concept of caseless ammunition while skimming Wikipedia for ideas on how to design a futuristic looking gun. Also I doubt Bethesda has people solely dedicated to designing guns. They probably have a bunch of "prop designers" not "video game gun designers".

[@setlerking]

the writers do a bunch of research to build the setting, hand those details to the modelling team who implement them as part of the design. Thats how you get these weirdly accurate details on otherwise complete hogwash

[@sliceofpie9584]

@@NeiZaMo Even another shit AAA company like ubisoft can at least get guns modeled right. It's no excuse for the lack of knowledge, they just chose not to care enough.

[@vanargrand3199]

The 1911 is literally missing the pins that hold the whole thing together. Firing it once should make it immediately turn into a game of 1911 Parts Pickup.

[@lookstothetroon]

honestly that sounds like a great idea for a joke mod, super op gun that fires 1 round then all of its parts scatter across the map

[@silverseth7]

There's a game for that, Disassembly.

[@BreakdancePeach]

@@lookstothetroon "scatter across the map" As in the 1911 parts all float up to the sky and boost off in different directions like the dragon balls?

[@lookstothetroon]

@@BreakdancePeach I mean I was more on about just the physics engine bugging out and causing them to launch into the sky, but that works too

[@BreakdancePeach]

@@lookstothetroon After collecting all 7 parts, the great dragon Godd Howard comes down to grant a wish. You wish for better guns from Bethesda. Unfortunately, Todd's model is too big and starts colliding with the terrain geometry before falling out of bounds. You never get your wish.

[@willmiddleton7932]

Todd Howard claiming that this game was his years long passion project only for it to lack this much polish is really just sad. If this is the quality they’re putting into a lead directors “passion project” imagine how fucked Elder Scrolls 6 is.

[@MaximusUnder]

oh yeah it' def done for

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

There's still the hope that people would still give 1 (one) fuck about The Elder Scrolls to make mods fixing the game to a better state.

[@frenchfriedbagel7035]

@@DonVigaDeFierrothe problem is the devs also need to care. But that’s not the only thing they need to do. They also need to be good at their jobs.

[@nicholascauton9648]

Elder Scrolls 6 and Fallout 5 are totally screwed at this point. We should all just stick to playing Modded Fallout 4 and Modded Skyrim just to save ourselves from their nonsense.

[@amadeusagripino6862]

​@@DonVigaDeFierrothere's only so much that can be fixed and improved via mods. Take Fallout 4 for example. The game has terrible foundation, so the best mods only make it barely passable.

[@windwalker5765]

You missed something on both the 1911 and 2311: The hammer doesn't drop when it fires. It's permanently locked back.

[@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy]

Dangit. gonna have to put it in F tier now

[@dedoha8]

@@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy also the cylinder in regulator doesn't go full circle but rotates left, then right and so on

[@jeambeam3173]

Tbh in real life visually you won't notice the hammer drops because a military second afterward the gun fires and redrops the hammer

[@windwalker5765]

@@jeambeam3173 Yeah, but it should be part of the weapon draw animation, right? I know it's safe to carry a 1911 cocked and locked, but this is a game. Cocking the slide on drawing-as if you were carrying with the hammer down on an empty chamber-is more common in games because it looks cooler.

[@jasonritner9662]

Nah, that's not even the worst part about it. I can forgive that as part of the tons of random graphical quirks of the game. What's really insane to know is what happens to two metals of the same type pressed against each other in a vacuum. Look up "cold welding" when you have the chance. That gun being exposed to vacuum and not being coated in some type of supertech gun oil is going to result in all of the mechanical parts fusing together as the oxidation on the surfaces gets worn off by regular use.

[@thebeersy3294]

My favorite thing about the caseless guns is the cases they eject.

[@jarowan]

Yeah. Why call the rounds caseless and then eject a massive case?

[@TheHumanRanger]

Beth is so tardy

[@sarawilson3423]

@jarowan Science.

[@Rat_Fบcker]

They just eject the round like wtf

[@TheHumanRanger]

They also have the bullets still attached and are round, not squarish like the barrels lol@@Rat_Fบcker

[@AWSAM335]

Starfield: the only game where the lore of how weapons work changes depending on whether you're in first or third person

[@Sakattack2023]

Wow 149 people liked that. We have waaaay more work to do around here.

[@Maddock_]

The whole thing reeks of burnout, crunch and devs who couldn’t be bothered anymore :( I kinda feel bad for the ones who had to suffer through this

[@Sakattack2023]

@@Maddock_ more like smart lazy people who know you and the other gaymers will just pre order your slop.

[@donovanjoseph737]

@@Sakattack2023?

[@pkfiremain710]

@@Sakattack2023 Rent free, huh?

[@Moobeus]

2:39 THE HAMMER DOESNT MOVE

[@tankofnova9022]

STOP! Hammer time

[@Kohler219]

​@@tankofnova9022oh oh oh oh oh oh oh hammer time

[@NewDesignVinylGraphics]

Fr dude. Watch dogs on PS4 and Xbox one 10 years ago has hammer action on all guns. It's a 3rd person open world game. Unreal

[@Moobeus]

@@NewDesignVinylGraphics yeah dude I mean already by the orginal modern warfare the hammer on the hand guns didn’t just go back it would go back partially depending on how much of the trigger you held down. Now we don’t even get them moving at all lmfao

[@sono_solo_nikita802]

I hate you for making me notice this 😭

[@coqzilla3811]

The funniest thing i found about the 1911 is the fact the hammer doesnt strike, or cycle at all, it just stays put in one place. So, how it shoot? Nobody knows, thats the scary part.

[@ABSolution2468]

When you squeeze the trigger, John Moses Browning's spirit rise from the grave and scare the bullet into detonating itself

[@slayeroffurries1115]

Space magic

[@T.E.A.L.]

It just works

[@Joosher56]

Something something Todd Howard

[@LS-jv9hp]

Look at the ejection port of the VSS the stamped manufactors mark doesn't move. It even stops halfway through its recycle so it's physically impossible for a round to be cycled.

[@mrSaber79]

for the AK, I guarantee they added the polymer handguard to the gun because they didn't want to make a custom animation where the character's grip adjusts to the width of every hanguard for every gun and as a result the charactar model would be "ghost holding" the normal AK handguard pretty badly. They added a polymer hanguard to it to "fill out" the gap and used the tape as a hand-wave explanation.

[@LordSinclair420]

Dude I think you're exactly right. Same Animations since fallout 4 almost 8 years ago

[@asuspiciouswatamelonthatdi9236]

Yep complete laziness.

[@BucketBucket275]

And that also perfectly lines up with them being very lazy.

[@xveers]

I'd agree with that, with a potential in-game reason for the taped-on handguard is that it's there to accomodate users who are wearing space suits (with big chonky gloves)

[@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy]

holy shit i think you're onto something

[@Earthstar_Review]

I think the extra hole on the front of the U-Eagle is an integrated Zip22. It's jammed, like every Zip22, explaining why it's non-functional.

[@bodhidaruma2824]

the "shotty" also looks like a modified zip22 lmao

[@lindinle]

My introduction to the zip22 was through cruelty squad

[@privateassman8839]

It looks like they tried to cram the bolt carrier group recoil spring and rod, and gas tube of an ak into a pistol, but didn't know what the gas tube was for, so poked a hole in the end.

[@akaroth7542]

Lol

[@I_Is_Ramped]

I have absolutely no knowledge of this game and I think I should consider myself lucky, but I just have to wonder why Bethesda think that “future guns” are just current or past guns with a bunch of random bulk added onto them for no functional reason at all. like do they even think about it for more than 5 seconds? why would future weapon designers make guns more cumbersome and less functional? an average modern day AR15 is 20x more useable than any gun in this entire “futuristic” world

[@Charles-pf7zy]

The entire halo series has human firearms that have no sights and are literally worse than modern firearms. Its just for the spaceman aesthetic

[@griffinbastion]

​@@Charles-pf7zyTBF halo has the added benefit of being so fuck off in the future that it could be explained by something like your suit telling you where your gun is aiming

[@sheevpalps66]

Another thing about the Old Earth Shotgun: the pump partially blocks the ejection port when pumping it back, so the gun wouldn't be able to eject or would do so very inconsistently.

[@locki9969]

the pump is way to close to the back its why all shotguns have pumps up front coz they use a slide to slide the chamber back but why not use the jackhammer shotgun looks a lot cooler and futuristic looking plus its a drum shotgun and semi auto

[@sheevpalps66]

@locki9969 Well, I think one 1 of those was ever made IRL, so realistically, it makes little sense. Was cool in BF3 though.

[@whyiwakeup6460]

@@locki9969 ah yes the totally working and reliable weapon that was never produced because it was so stupid. Honestly, I’d do a gussied up AA12 instead, still looks a bit sci-fi and fits the shotgun role and has a high fire rate, though to show it was old gun, you’d probably want a pump, lever action, or double/single barrel.

[@ChampionsGearhead]

Also if you put a short barrel mod on it the tube will become shorter but the capacity doesn't change... The grenade launcher is a more faithful model of a shotgun than the shotgun is 😀

[@gundamned4879]

i used to own a mossberg 500 with that style of pump handle, it looks like they modeled the gun off of a shotgun that had the pump handle pulled back, later realized its way too far back to make a good animation with, jerryrigged this stupid pump-forward animation like its a Neostead, and called it a day because they couldnt give a shit about how it worked because this is bethesda we're talking about

[@cantdestroyher7245]

So we're in space and the sky is the limit for gun design, what should we make? Bethedsa: 100 normal guns with some shit glued to them and 3 useless pew pew guns

[@nozero1]

I didn't know the Star Wars prop designers worked on this game.

[@patrickfoxchild2608]

Not even that.

[@WolfGeek64]

@@nozero1 At least back then they had the excuse of basically having little money to play with, along with it being the 70s. Bethesda has all the money and technology to do whatever they want.

[@SynthgirlBulge]

@@WolfGeek64also it’s a lot cheaper to 3D model and animate WHATEVER you can come up with. Compared to building physical props in however many numbers they needed for the movie and making them look good

[@mylifeisacomplexpastiche7901]

@@nozero1Hey, at least Star Wars explains how the blasters and all of their little doodads work.

[@Khorne_of_the_Hill]

part of the problem with caseless ammo is that the brass cases of traditional rounds actually do act as a heat sink

[@danjames8314]

wave it away as space magic, say something along the lines of "oh the gas holds heat really well so when the bullet is fired it ejects most of the heat too"

[@mjay6245]

The real problem is cookoffs are really common and hard to prevent when the powder is touching the hot chamber.

[@dinamitemaster]

And to make it more stupid, they're one of the few methods of cooling that actually do work in a vacuum

[@CrizzyEyes]

Yeah. They keep trying with caseless ammo but it just doesn't work in the conditions the military needs it to. Bad weather? Ammo ruined. The G11 was a technological marvel that could deliver a 3-round burst downrange so fast that the user would not even feel the recoil until the burst completed, but it was sunk by its own ammunition.

[@oditeomnes]

Something many of us have experienced when getting them into the sleeve.

[@KiwiBomber7]

46:43 In TABG by Landfall the mini gun actually does fire instantly. Landfall has my respect for that

[@kjvanwartberg8439]

Landfall enjoyer gang assemble

[@dualrotorhelicopter]

tabg, my beloved. no game has gunplay like tabg, and none ever will

[@angelicbeast7793]

One thing that bothered me immensely is that on both the 1911 and the XM-2311, the hammer doesn't strike anything, it just stays cocked back.

[@TheChaosCorvid]

I can accept that one, on many game engines it can look really buggy to try to have the hammer move at its real speed, and the odds that someone will pause on the right frame to see it move are slim.

[@lifes2short4aname]

Also why does the frame under the barrel slide back with the slide?

[@FarlerAlarm]

@@lifes2short4aname That part is accurate. 1911 slides have a bit at the front that does go around the barrel. When you take one apart, you remove the pin in the side of the weapon, and that allows the slide to move forward, and off of the gun.

[@lifes2short4aname]

@@FarlerAlarm oh right, haha I forgot. I think I was remembering back to playing with some kind of replica that the slide didn't go around the barrel

[@FarlerAlarm]

@@lifes2short4aname It happens! It's not something most people would even think about. The Beretta M9 has something similar looking, and it doesn't move with the rest of the slide. EDIT: I was actually wrong about the Beretta. It's just like the 1911. 😂

[@AsheramK]

Regarding the Lawgiver, I don't think the devs realized what a terrible idea it is to have your _rifle_ sight on a moving part. The accuracy would be absolutely terrible.

[@adamofblastworks1517]

With massive improvements in materials, precision machining, and assembly methods perhaps the sight can be guaranteed to remain accurate.

[@Orinslayer]

At what cost, I suppose they would simply charge more for such fine machining. Most of these abominations seem like the gun companies just wanted to charge more for their guns.@@adamofblastworks1517

[@genericscottishchannel1603]

​@@adamofblastworks1517yea the problem is having your eye keep up

[@sulphuric_glue4468]

@@adamofblastworks1517 There is no way to guarantee that anything mechanical will remain accurate. You would need ludicrously small tolerances to make this work and the smaller the tolerance is, the more likely it is to break. You see this all the time in F1, where the engines have extremely tight tolerances to achieve insane performance, but they also malfunction all the time. As soon as the mechanism gets even slightly fouled, it's fucked. To counteract this you'd need all kinds of additional systems and computer components (how else are you going to automatically correct the positioning) and all this effort is to get around a problem you created for a feature that provides absolutely no benefit.

[@Kydino]

@@adamofblastworks1517 Overdesigning your gun with multiple moving parts to solve a small problem that was figured out the moment people started to create self loading firearms is a pretty big miss and as the other guy said, it would break easily and be unreliable.

[@Theantininja]

A point on the Maelstrom: Y'all are forgetting Bethesda still thinks smaller number means less damage. It's why they believe a 45 acp round is more damaging than NATO 7.62, or that the 5mm round in a minigun is less damaging than NATO 5.56.

[@mcfarofinha134]

they need to hire at least one dude that knows a tiny bit about how guns work, or at least a guy to google this shit lol

[@kikichevy]

The 5mm round used in miniguns and the assault carbine in FNV is an intermediate round that is less powerful than 5.56. I still have no idea where the fuck the idea for that round popped out of given 5.56 is a thing in the first place.

[@serker3138]

@@kikichevy I think that it's a homage to Fallout 1/2, where developers didn't know or didn't care, and both minigun and assault rifle (named AK-112 in game, of all things) used 5mm ammo. But honestly, it is more of monkeying a stupid decision at this point. Alternatively, Bethesda could figure out at some point that minigun with real 5.56 ammo will have too much recoil to be usable on foot, so they decided to make it use another weaker ammo. Which kind of makes sense, except it doesn't because weaker ammo mean less effect and miniguns are not effective when used like this, a high caliber machinegun will be MUCH better in every aspect.

[@sarahmellinger3335]

@@serker3138 the enemy will still be spooked into going for cover if used for supressing fire. that is if they don't realize your shooting nerf and nothing.

[@SavageGreywolf]

@@serker3138 there's no reason why the same round couldn't be used in both a minigun and a service rifle- in fact, the real M134 Minigun fires 7.62x51 NATO, the same round as the M14 battle rifle. The only point of contention is the weapon being marked 'assault rifle', which by strict definition should indicate it as firing an intermediate cartridge.

[@TJackson736]

18:58 "That's right. It goes in the square hole."

[@TJackson736]

The Hard Target extended magazine just gets rid of an internal block to allow it to carry the full 7 rounds.

[@NFS0038]

I found a sleeping bag out on the surface of Venus in this game. That's all you need to know.

[@johncastillo2194]

What, you leave your sleeping bag at home when you travel to Venus?

[@itdobeghost]

@@johncastillo2194I just buy a new one when I get there honestly

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

​@johncastillo2194 Last time I slept on Venus it was way too warm for me, so I don't bother with the bag any more.

[@JimTheCurator]

​@@highadmiralbittenfield9689 I usually just use a pillow and a sheet anymore. It's too hot for a full blanket.

[@SteveMC5]

​@@JimTheCuratorthat's why venus has water again... it's the sweat from me using a blanket

[@JohnDoe-ps5yj]

Itd be nice if Game Designers were more like Kojima, he literally took his design team to America from Japan so they can familiarize themselves with how firearms work. Thats passion and commitment to your craft plus im sure the crew had a unforgettable experience

[@Eli_Guy]

Kojima himself seemed to have quite a fascination with guns, too which likely helped Case in point, that scene in MGS3 where Snake basically rambles about the specs of a 1911(?) that was *just* handed to him

[@c-love6753]

​@@Eli_Guy Big Boss was more exited about all the gun modifications than a half naked woman infront of him. He is one hell of a gun nerd lol.

[@ipodtouchiscoollol]

American companies are too busy making "diverse and non hostile work environments" to be actually spending time hiring competent staff with the HR department being run by twittards and ex tumblr users, where as Japanese does not give a fuck about how or what you think of the workplace, you get shit done or get fired + their craftsmanship spirit and the rest is history.

[@christiancinnabars1402]

Taking your design team to a whole other country to study how firearms operate firsthand vs not even giving some guns a trigger is a crazy commitment difference.

[@Sup3rSn1per]

Hilarious since there’s probably 5 ranges within 20 minutes of Bethesda HQ

[@davidponder1654]

This weapon design makes me think that it wasn’t just the landscapes that were procedurally generated

[@Vert_GreenHeart]

Probably, the amount of useless tubes and junk in the guns are unnatural.

[@shcdemolisher]

Even Borderlands gets the guns both looking and functioning right!

[@emojothejojo]

Even no man's sky multi tools look more functional than these guns

[@davidponder1654]

@@emojothejojo hit the nail on the head. Bethesda needs to die out and sell their big IPs off. Their biggest fans are because of fallout and elder scrolls but theyve been ignoring us for 10 years almost for fallout and 13 years for elder scrolls.

[@1riqoispliskin]

They had ai generate a gun model then they just went and made certain parts slide around and rotate after the fact.

[@SVN_ETR]

Bethesda's design choices revolve around: -Wood grip/stock -Magazine for every gun (revolvers have round mags btw lol) -At least one moving part when reloading (also when shooting if you feel like it) -Close to no recoil like the *realistic* action movies do -Add a bunch of useless and pointless stuff all over the place because it's ✨futuristic✨ and because we're ✨unique✨ -6mm and 50cal because it sounds cool -Caseless because it sounds even cooler and saves time -Add an ammo counter because Halo did it and Halo is cool space sci-fi -Square or round, pick your poison -Fire rate? Ah yes, pistols are pew pew pew, rifles are ratatatatat and shotguns are pow pow -"Cool sci-fi gun" google search -"It just works!" -Alright uhh people liked Cyberpunk so let's just do that yipee -Hey Siri give me cool gun names

[@matturner6890]

wow is this their design doc? Oh wait they don't have them.

[@joemama114]

I'm surprised he didn't mention it, the regulator revolver cylinder seems to rotate then rotate back, it NEVER fully rotates all the way around.

[@blakecook9266]

Yeah I was gonna comment about that. Like I was like “maybe it like takes bullets in and rotates them up to the top?” But then i saw that it had 8 bullets in the cylinder and uh yeah. How does it do that.

[@Merc7734]

One thing you forgot about the Regulator is that the cylinder rotates clockwise for one shot and then counter clockwise for the follow-up shot. This means you are magically firing the same 2 bullets that just re-materialized in those 2 specific cylinder holes 😂

[@zrspangle]

Maybe it's two Maybe it's two tube mags that load every other cycle

[@Akabalthy]

What is this? Quake 1's nailgun?

[@brunnomenxa]

The effect of them simply mirroring the 3D model of the weapon to make the second half.

[@johnteslov5870]

Regulator is a slightly modified version of the gun from 1980s movie Bladerunner, also found in the dinosaur inside Novac in Fallout NV.

[@kraizerxthesimp46]

@@johnteslov5870 THAT gun from FNV is awesome compared to that trash whatever bethesda is cooking

[@TheGreatestTerrariaPlayerEver]

As someone who knows nothing about guns that pump shotgun was HORRIFIC

[@etrangray-mane8610]

Ah, are you a descendant of ancient California?

[@glubtas]

destiny 2 ass shotgun

[@LecherousLizard]

I made more functional shotguns out of cardbox and office tape as a 6 year old.

[@TheGreatestTerrariaPlayerEver]

@@etrangray-mane8610 i am a descendant of the country known for being unknown… New Zealand🥲

[@Shagaru_Bleed]

Absolutely terrible that pump shot pump.

[@Gak237]

41:33 tactical gasoline pump

[@samdavid5772]

Was gonna say makita drill, but yeah that works too XD

[@xarigama6466]

😂

[@KorGarrot]

I bet the character calling the 1911 a revolver is because they originally planned for you to get a revolver there but changed it to the 1911 after the voice acting was done

[@amazingfan15]

yeah, that's what i figure happened as well

[@masgaz9748]

Sooo the idea that the dad miiight be an uninformed 24th century person who doesn't know his guns is out of the question?

[@notoriousmasc]

yes @@masgaz9748

[@Wulfenburg]

Lol, Well I hope that's what happened.

[@fuery.]

​@@masgaz9748still pretending this is the correct answer because it is objectively better

[@DarkBaron123]

Another oddity with the old earth hunting and assualt rifle is that when the player removes the magizine they don't even bother trying to use the mag release and just yank the magazine out, which would be impossible with the real world counterpart.

[@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy]

Literally unplayable

[@cosmicthrillseeker]

Literally unplayable

[@sexyunion]

Literally unplayable

[@dr.bright3081]

LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE

[@johnderat2652]

Metaphorically playable

[@reederickson3202]

My favorite part about the regulator is how the cylinder alternates between rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise. Just... such a weird detail to include in the animation.

[@robertgresham3489]

I came here to mention that. 3 guns later and I'm still stuck on that revolver that just cycles between 2 chambers over and over again.

[@Law01YT]

I just witnessed that while reading this comment. I have so many questions, all of which can be answered by space magic

[@Khotetsu]

So glad I'm not the only one who was bothered by that. Like, they would have to go out of their way to animate it that way, right? It's not like they just set up the animation to rotate clockwise, they had to actively set it up to go in opposite directions after every shot.

[@petrolak]

I think it's supposed to be like Mauser BK-27 (which is a belt-fed revolver). But that still makes no sense because the main benefit of a revolver cannon over a more simple design is that you can crank up the fire rate - you can be firing, pulling cartridge off the belt and throwing out empty cases in paralel. The only logical explanation as to why would anyone choose to make it work the way it works in game is to get past some fictional Assault Weapons Ban by abusing some fictional legal loophole, neither of which is ever brought up.

[@spiraljumper74]

I want to write the IHNMAIMS AM speech about that “revolver” but I’m too lazy so I’ll just reference it. But that’s how I feel about that fucking thing. Hate, HATE, *HATE,* with every nano-angstrom of my being.

[@jamesm6638]

I know people love to say "that isn't what you're supposed to be paying attention to" but it's the believability that makes the worlds and the items in them interesting in the first place. When you can see the special care put into the visuals, it really makes you appreciate the work that went into it. When something looks and feels like it was slapped together for quick profit, it shows.

[@alanb.p1615]

I remember how you could stuff a 50 cal into a pipe rifle in Fallout 4, but the bullet inside the gun looked like a 22 magnum, bethesda never changes

[@orinlee6123]

As a former armorer, this video has scarred me in ways I never would have imagined. No game's guns has baffled me as much as what I'm hearing about Starfield. That's magic.

[@RaptorTroll360]

"It just works"

[@gregtso7505]

91F or 2111?

[@Tuulos]

To be fair just looking at Fallout 3 and 4 guns is pretty baffling too.

[@bdleo300]

300+ years old 1911 is somehow better than brand new high-tech space guns. It just makes sense!

[@Cheesepuff8]

There are plenty of games that do it worse than this, TF2 for example, if you're thinking "but tf2 guns aren't meant to be realistic" then u don't know how how bad they are, gameplay-wise they're great often tho

[@phantomkrieger2744]

Fallout 4’s most egregious sin was the sheer lack of different/unique firearm types, supposedly to encourage the weapon customization system.

[@yikes6969]

Its worst sin was being boring as hell

[@orange8175]

true@@yikes6969

[@szoszy8916]

@@orange8175 Sin it's own exist

[@cheesebucketman1606]

​@@yikes6969I mean that's probably why there's so many mods for fallout 4 because of how boring it is without them.

[@fl8281]

The worst sin is that someone dare to even have thought about this. Just creating the idea on their hrad it's a sin by default

[@swigzby]

"John Wick from Fortnite" almost sent me into a homicidal rage. Well played.

[@garrysucks4190]

The most ludicrous part about the microgun is that it literally has a damn *_pistol_* as the trigger. It literally looks like the entire microgun *_is an accessory to the pistol!_*

[@tdpuuhailee8222]

When you fully upgrade the starter weapon

[@dixen9116]

@@tdpuuhailee8222LMAO

[@TTSP907]

Oh god you can even see it in the hud sillouhette.

[@ripadblock]

"NOOOOO!!! MY FICTIONAL GAME HAS FICTIONAL WEAPONS SINCE THE GAME IS A PIECE OF FICTION"

[@MrMoron-qn5rx]

@@ripadblock i dont want my fiction to be realistic, i want my fiction to be believable.

[@angelm9513]

My best guess is that Bethesda has a small team of 2-3 people designing the guns and another 2-3 people who animate the use of the weapons. Both teams do not communicate and they are both inexperienced with real life functionality and use.

[@Vert_GreenHeart]

That could really be the case yeah, the whole game from mapping, voice acting, gun design, sound design feel disjointed and disconnected... Resulting in Starfield feeling soulless and uninspired. Maybe that whole no design documents argument holds some weight.

[@hurricanemeridian8712]

Honestly that sounds like the most logical reason for it. Also given how much other shit in the game is bugged out, I expect weapon animations were far down the priority list

[@pkfiremain710]

Metro Exodus had only 6 people total just focusing on making their scrap guns actually functional if they were to be made in real life, which makes me wonder why Bethesda can't make their guns that aren't made out of bad parts look like they work. It's also relevant for Fallout 4, though... pipe guns make me unreasonably angry.

[@TheNukedNacho]

For all these games that have such a high focus on guns, you'd think they'd have hired at least ONE person who knows how guns work

[@RighteousJ]

Having spent time working in the industry, I can assure you that you're likely far more correct than you can possibly imagine.

[@oscarguzman3017]

I'm not a gun person at all, but I can tell he's going easy on bethesda. It makes sense since they're a small indie development company, though.

[@zoratatsumaki9181]

They're owned by Microsoft. Def not small.

[@anstupid4093]

​@@zoratatsumaki9181That's the joke, Bethesda's games are the quality of like a 2-year passion project rushed out by a team of close high school friends as their first game ever, and it's unacceptable.

[@chrisstucker1813]

⁠​⁠@@anstupid4093so what games are out there like starfield that have been made by high school friends? I’m genuinely curious lol

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

​@@chrisstucker1813 ah, the Bethesda Defense Force showed up.

[@chrisstucker1813]

@@highadmiralbittenfield9689 so what games then?

[@hamburgerguy85]

28:42 pretty sure the sound of that gun firing is ripped directly from Destiny 2’s Huckleberry smg (I’m two years clean but I still recognize the voices)

[@nataliecameron]

It's not, you're clearly much more clean than you think

[@hamburgerguy85]

@@nataliecameron thank you so much, you have no idea how much that means to me

[@o.w.n.1327]

I love how everytime I see someone saying they have stopped playing Destiny 2, they always write like if its a drug addiction. So why are you guys here? Heroin. Cocaine. Alcohol. Destiny 2.

[@Taldorin]

I imagine the devs probably googled telescoped ammo, saw it was square and decided well the barrel must be square then since the entire bullet and casing obviously comes out of the gun

[@ricecooker7037]

Tbh I like the vibes of the blocky barrel.

[@Nerobyrne]

fr how hard is it to find a gun enthusiast that will help them design the guns? There's a ton of people who would do it FOR FREE, just because they love seeing guns in games be accurate. But even if they were paid a regular consulting salary, that's hardly gonna break the bank.

[@schnek8927]

@@Nerobyrne Because gun enthusiasts are, like, fascist... or something. We all know the number one identifier of a fascist is their support of being able to defend oneself against the state, obviously. They're racist too, because why not. I jest, but i honestly wouldn't be surprised if this really is their logic.

[@thePavuk]

seems legit

[@elliotnemeth]

@@Nerobyrne They're content to wait for said gun enthusiasts to make mods that correct the guns

[@patrikcath1025]

The amount of guns that have a random battery somewhere makes me wonder if they're fired electronically, and that just made Bethesda think they need AA batteries.

[@NeonBeeCat]

I hope we would have moved on from aa batteries by then. Im surprised we still use them in current day.

[@chri-k]

@@NeonBeeCatWhy?

[@Suninrags]

Disposable batteries are inefficient ​@@chri-k

[@violetdesiree601]

@@chri-k most stuff you just charge or plug into the wall for example my controller has a charging station

[@ACEnthusiast]

​@@violetdesiree601 you do realise that your controller still has a battery in it right

[@megasquishface]

You missed that the regulator doesn’t actually ‘revolve’ the cylinder just wiggles left and right

[@Killicon93]

He also missed the part where when reloading the regulator the character flags their left hand.

[@emojothejojo]

That's apparently a pretty common thing in games

[@theshanamaster]

he also missed the ABISSMAL reload time of the drumbeat and the pointless holding of the charging handle towards the end of a reload

[@vcsa681]

Ah yes,the.... Zigzager? FlipsLeft&righter? ....Turner?

[@tonybryant9589]

“A descendant of some ancient race of Californians” had me rolling

[@Madden2000]

The whole “collectible revolver” with the 1911 just shows how much “love” and “care” they put into the whole game,

[@oceanbytez847]

that and also how they don't have a single gun literate person on the dev team which is actually really sad.

[@Madara8989]

@@oceanbytez847 It makes more sense when you realize that Bethesda is based in Maryland, a predominantly blue state (most of which are actively against firearms ownership and refuse to educate themselves on firearms on the basis of "It doesn't matter, they should all be banned from civilian ownership!"). They likely only included guns because they're obligated to by the setting... which would explain a lot about how guns function in the Fallout games too. Just like BFV's blatant revisionist view of WWII injected with modern politics makes sense when you realize the game was made by a bunch of relatively young developers (given the exodus the studio had after BF1) in Sweden - a country that historically refused to take a stand against the Nazis. Modern DICE is likely only making "war games" because that's what the original crew were passionate about and is what made the studio successful in the first place.

[@2-bit567]

It's just like that one random ass Australian Kahn in NV

[@martinatanes]

Not every npc on a game needs to know about weapons. Your dad in the game is a teacher, maybe he just called it revolver because he doesn't know better?

[@Madara8989]

@@martinatanes A prime example of how people will bend over backwards to dismiss valid criticisms or justify objective flaws in the things they like.

[@JTCF]

While Aperture science turrets shoot the whole bullet (technically a cartridge), Starfield's guns shoot magic and eject the cartridge away.

[@gizmoman2008]

Anytime I think about goofy gun logic I can’t help but think of the shadow the hedgehog intro where he loads and chambers a MP5 gets me every time

[@Istoleyourbreadandateit]

Oh yeah, right the pump action MP5

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

@@Istoleyourbreadandateit It's like the people who think slapping the MP5 will break it. I hate it. *_Now gimme an MP5 and a fresh mag, I'm boutta give this thing the redheaded stepchild treatment!_*

[@Br1anwastaken]

Peak fiction

[@Dmitrikrotchlikmyov]

​@@airplanemaniacgaming7877slap that shit like you're John Mclane!

[@Usernamehear]

You can pump an MP5 if you are edge lord enough like shadow

[@denzelwright8475]

you see what I love about your videos about guns in videogames is that you keep your knowledge and attention to detail dumbed down enough for viewers with surface level knowledge of guns like me to still enjoy. Kudos

[@DotKom01]

The maelstrom's ammo counter amazes me because its supposed to be super futuristic but apparently a sausage-thick chord is needed to attach a motion sensor to a seven-segment display

[@adminadminson3147]

think it's supposed to be a space gun, something something insulated gas channel

[@PhotriusPyrelus]

I like how the hammer isn't animated on the 1911. You can see it pretty clearly in the final footage you use before ranking it.

[@tortobergie]

To be fair, the Beowulf outperforming the Grendel is literarily consistent considering how their fight goes in the poem

[@picardsolo2471]

You mean the movie, right?

[@Business_Skeleton]

​@@picardsolo2471 the movie was based off the poem

[@picardsolo2471]

@@Business_Skeleton pretty sure we only read the poem because the movie got made. 3D boobs.

[@whyiwakeup6460]

@@picardsolo2471most normal human interaction

[@rahuldubey1949]

​@@picardsolo2471there's a movie??!

[@straxacore]

Duh, the coachman has a motion sensor inside the trigger guard. Very safe and in no way a massive safety issue.

[@ChuckFinnley944]

Half of these weapons look like they tried to make laser guns that shot bullets. I’m gonna be honest, they could have just gone with laser guns. I don’t think anyone would have minded.

[@brkenppt2222]

Making only laser gun would have been stupid, as it's easy to imagine that people managed to build armor that can resist laser, and thus rendering all weapon useless.

[@HorusHerotic]

Yes they would. Please don't apply for a job there.

[@natesneatstuff8296]

⁠@@brkenppt2222Crazy how Mass Effect is one of the only open world shooters which managed to incorporate laser and ballistic weapons in their universe in an organic way.

[@RSCALES11]

@@brkenppt2222you sound like a neckbearded loser hahaha

[@notasoviet1016]

@@brkenppt2222 you could also say the same for kinetic weapons

[@ShigadyShigadyShwey]

The 1911 'revolver' is likely down to the gun being given originally being something else, but the gun being replaced later on, without redoing the voice acting. An oversight for sure, but a very common one in larger scale games, voice acting being done before changes are made that makes the dialogue incorrect.

[@rustyrodgers7566]

Yeah, I saw a clip of the same thing in Red Dead 2 where the va says it’s a revolver but it’s actually a flintlock

[@dextrodemon]

and it's sort of supposed to be a cowboy gun in context, so maybe they replaced it quite late. that would explain that missing part on the slide too, as it's probably just a purchased asset quickly thrown in. and they probably changed it because a revolver is probably quite hard to animate quickly.

[@honeybadger6275]

@@dextrodemon They could have just used the animations from fallout 4/76.

[@HunterAnsorge-ok9jk]

No. Example: “Old earth hunting rifle” aka VSS Vintorez

[@EllAntares]

@@rustyrodgers7566 well, Collier was a revolver and a flintlock. There were also caplock pistols in reality but in game there is only one, belonging to Compson

[@ScoutSilico]

I imagine they were originally going to use the bolt rifle from Fallout 4 as the "Old Earth Hunting Rifle" but someone found a cooler looking rifle later on

[@thewhite8uard]

The civilian version of the riffle is marketed as hunting riffle in Russia (Hunting is the only purpose civilian have right to own a riffle in Russia). It obviously do not have some of special forces military features like subsonic armor-piercing ammo, but the common and versatile caliber 7,62х39. it's suppressor is fake, but the barrel is twice longer, and it's semi-auto. It's called КО ВСС (Carbine Hunting VSS).

[@selectionn]

@@thewhite8uard sure, but this one in game isnt a civilian variant its also not known for being a hunting rifle, which is why its such a weird choice. They could have called it "old earth special forces rifle" or something similar, rather than implying its a hunting rifle.

[@thewhite8uard]

@@selectionn What makes you thinking the one in the game is not a civilian variant? If you look at fire rate comparing with the old earth assault riffle that's exactly civilian semi-automatic riffle.

[@joelfilho2625]

@@thewhite8uard well, for one, as you yourself said, the civilian variant does not have a supressor, but in the game the weapon *is* supressed, and while not operable in game, the rifle does seem to have a fire selection switch to flip it to full-auto...

[@thewhite8uard]

@@joelfilho2625 In fact, I'm wrong about suppressor. The suppressor is not fake, but the barrel is not perforated for gas release, and subsonic ammo is obviously not allowed. Anyway, I don't believe suppressors for hunting are forbidden in USA, if the riffle was marketed in USA it could have suppressor working. A fire selector is still needed for safety switch. In fact there is usa-made clone of the riffle, THE SLAGGA Viska.

[@Hainstille]

The AA-99 looks like something my six year old self could conjure up with a bit of paper and crayons

[@maus6967]

What I'll never understand is how a team put together by a huge company to design guns can consist entirely of people less capable of that job than random internet people who would correct the mistakes for FREE just out of irritation at their existence

[@Hawk7886]

The modders are the people who fix things for free, often out of annoyance

[@maus6967]

@@Hawk7886 true they're half of who I had in mind

[@theeffete3396]

Bethesda doesn't exactly hire people for their talent.

[@jasonritner9662]

Bethesda doesn't care. Most of these animations and designs look like they had maybe one person who had seen a gun operate on KZbin a few years before and then tried to describe it to fresh faced college students who have only seen them in the games they play and on TV. The concept art department also clearly had no communication with the animators. Everything is completely haphazard and reeks of executives and management telling people to just get it done and make it work as cheaply and rapidly as possible. Plus, they know molders are just going to fix it for them later. Why should they bother?

[@andreibaciu7518]

They hire model artists who can whip up a model as quickly as possible and can make more than one kind of asset, they still need people to model every other asset in the game other than guns, so naturally most of modelers are going to be jacks of all trades (and by extension masters of none). The designs are a stylistic choice or trope to evoke the futuristic setting they're going for, it's easy to just slap a bunch of greeblies over an already recognizable gun (like a deagle or P90) than go through the process of designing a somewhat believable firearm. Too bad literally every futuristic setting uses the same tropes.

[@roguereaver634]

15:40 Slight correction, the G11 actually passed the tests for full scale adoption, but was never put into production for financial and political reasons (With the collapse of the USSR Germany gained truckloads of AKs + their no.1 threat was gone and the need for new rifles diminished, and there were also concerns about NATO standardisation)

[@yesimrealhuman4245]

also the fn created the p90 which made hk shit themselfs

[@Zodroo_Tint]

Not really, the weapon is not good for combat use. It is a good gimmick but in a war it would fail every soldier.

[@Zodroo_Tint]

@@yesimrealhuman4245 P90 is a self deffense gun, it wouldn't be useful against armored soldiers with assault guns. Unfortunatelly because of a tv show many people think that is some kind of wonder weapon.

[@DZ-DizzyDumm]

13:30 "i guess this ammunition just morphs between rifle and pistol size depending on the position of Murcury and Saturn" good lord this is great

[@Acrylescent]

Him cracking up from that sent me lol

[@dmtripz420]

27:14 Whoever animated this first-person reload should be embarrassed.

[@henarthuri7238]

I think I noticed a couple more things: For the two old-world semi-auto pistols, the hammer doesn't actually move. It just stays fixed in place and the gun magically fires without any primers being struck. For the regulator, the cylinder never actually makes a full revolution; it rotates counter-clockwise once, then clockwise, over and over again, which means it would just be striking the same two cartridges without firing the other six.

[@Bman-wm4ib]

Yeah the regulator cylinder rotation annoyed me so much I'm really surprised he didn't say anything about it

[@s4lty693]

Also the ak looks like it only has safe and semi modes

[@tykjpelk]

I don't think it's a revolver at all. The cylinder is just a weird magazine, and it's actually a semi automatic pistol that fires from an open bolt.

[@pathleader64]

also noticed on the old earth hunting rifle the bolt carrier cycles but the bolt itself stays locked in place and doesn't move

[@FriendlyGoblinWasTaken]

Something funny about the Razorback is how it has an ammo count for a 6 bullet gun with both a visual for the cylinder and a big number just in case the user forgets how to count to six

[@Sp4rt4nSl4ya]

Its hard sometimes 😂

[@H3xx99]

They sell these things to every schlub with the credits to pay. No licensing or training necessary. Whole thing about Laredo's in game lore is "Sturdy weapons to keep people alive on hostile planets." Makes sense they'd make the displays as idiot proof as possible.

[@Feraligono]

♫ I can only count to four~ ♫

[@BeverageOfSorts]

Do ya feel lucky, punk?

[@eleanorgreywolfe5142]

"How do we make futuristic looking guns?" "I don't know, just stick completely pointless things on it"

[@magmapixel8627]

To be fair that’s exactly what they did for the original Star Wars movies and it worked great

[@MrTavrosNitram]

@@magmapixel8627 except those were real props that looked good

[@slumpywumpy4166]

"How do we make futuristic looking guns?" "Put 6 laser sights on the barrel" "Oh cool are they functional?" "No make them useless until the player crafts 1, making only 5 of them useless"

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

​​@@magmapixel8627They were actually modified ww2 weapons for the most part with custom paint and a few accessories put on. This is just the design team farting out whatever they think looks scifi.

[@mrheherdisruptor8975]

Basically what they always do in Sci Fi? As other people said, that's what they did in Star Wars and if i remember correctly that's what they did in Blade Runner too.

[@atlasfp]

I've seen bits and pieces of this in Shorts. Imagine my glee and bliss when I got recommended the full video

[@Inufan337]

I think the worst part about the Tombstone (apart from it really needing to be an SMG) is that if you replace the wood furniture with cheap-looking sheet metal or even scrap, it'd look like a reasonable budget or improvised gun

[@shanehudson3995]

I'm trying to figure out how the Tombstone runs at all. Square caseless ammo in a pmag, and feed lips designed for brass.

[@bran1886]

You also have to love how the 1911 hammer never moves, even when the magazine is empty the slide doesn't lock and goes forward like there is another round with the hammer cocked.

[@FuckGoogle502]

The hammer would be cocked when the mag is empty on a real 1911. The slide coming back to eject the round resets the hammer, then if the slide hold-open is damaged (or the magazine isn't pushing on it hard enough, or if the gun is fired without a magazine), the slide returns forward with no round in the chamber and the hammer cocked. When it works as intended, the slide stays back over top of the hammer....with the hammer cocked.

[@bran1886]

Yeah what I meant was the slide wasn't locked open and the slide went forward with the hammer still cocked like there were was another round in the chamber, it looks very odd.

[@derpherbert3199]

8:30 "This bug is _suspiciously_ similar to the bug seen with the 'Bullet counted reload' mod from Fallout 4, so I'm not sure if Bethesda just straight up ripped off this guy's mod or..." I can confidently assure you without a shred of evidence that this is the most likely scenario. EDIT: Holy crap, thx for 1000 likes!

[@Brigtzen]

I so desperately want someone to look into this, i'm not one to like stirring drama, but i can't say i'm not salivating at the thought of bethesda straight ripping a mod for their game

[@Literallyryangosling777]

It just works

[@G-Cole-01]

If the only similarity is an unexpected animation cancel then it might require a look into the source code for both Starfield and the Fallout 4 mod to confirm what happened.

[@TheSilverCanine_R3D-H]

Is that a violation of some kind? It feels like it is illegal But I could be wrong

[@TimeTravelingFetus]

@TheSilverCanine_R3D Maybe, depending on what the mod was licensed under? Though I doubt it was licensed at all, and even if it was, good luck proving that they actually ripped it off

[@prgrm_err]

"Weagle? Doesn't sound right" Listen to the Auburn Tigers' football cheers some time lol "Rah rah rah, sis boom bah! Weagle, Weagle, War damn Eagle! Kick em' in the butt big Blue!"

[@katinthehat1420]

It is insane Bethesda spent months, if not years developing these weapons and they didn't once google what caseless ammunition once. That's mind boggling.

[@DavidDavyDavidson]

"I don't think the developers gave any thought about how this gun would function." That's how I felt about literally every aspect of this game.

[@DoktrDub]

Not really… many aspects of the game are well done but there are some quirks, the guns have issues tho

[@Astrotamtv]

@@DoktrDubgame feels like a pre-alpha build. The talent system is blasphemous , loading screens are ok to an extent but here they are so tedious, crafting and base building is non-existent thanks to how awful the inventory system is, you can’t know which cities are where in each system …you have to basically memorize the name of the system, every “main” planet or moon has one point of interest and the rest is just copy pasted stuff. This game made me worry about future bethesda games if this what they call quality now.

[@Sloppyjoe96]

yeah it is really just insane for a 2023 game, ive seen mobile games with better gun design 😂

[@DautFromX]

@@DoktrDub There's always someone trying to justify their mistake of a purchase. Just admit you got scammed by Todd, my dude.

[@OrangeNash]

Yes, I don't think the developers gave any thought to how the world will be in 2300. So they just put todays USA on space. Luckily for them, there's enough kids who won't notice.

[@FurryWrecker911]

Speaking as someone who was once a weapons artist for an indie game, it is frustrating how many weapon artists get hired on that have no idea how weapons work, so when they get assigned sci-fi duty, they end up making things that look like "an gun" that under no circumstances would they ever function. My first gun assignment was a home depot pipe shotgun as a test. Simple and easy enough. you really can't screw it up unless you're a novice just learning 3D software (which is fine. My first knife models in 2013 looked like playdough). My second gun had concept art _which was a pump shotgun with an AK receiver, and a bullpup magazine._ I took it back to the concept department, was requested by the art lead to get the creative director involved, and we had a sit down to discuss which of the 3 directions we wanted to take it. I didn't want to make a bullpup if we needed a tube-fed, nor did I want to make it pump action if we needed a semi-automatic. After we got it sorted out and decided to make it semi-auto they must have pulled me off the assignment and put me on QA duty (job was daily check-ins with people during the modeling phase to make sure they were making stuff that actually functioned, and weren't following the concept art 100% because concept art was very loose) because I can't find any proof of it anywhere on my system of ever being made as I type this digging through my E drive... Oh well. Game ended up never coming out so no real loss there. Some guns were fine, some were not. The most notable was this sick as Hell railgun that was really well made... but it was designed in a way that the barrel shroud would open up during operation and shunt downwards. _I had to point out that that's where your hand was supposed to go._ They had to edit the animation to axe movement on the lower half of the shroud which was a shame because the artist made a bunch of internals that would become exposed, but with the should open it would slice two metal plates clean into your off-hand and kick the gun up into the air.

[@goodsirbear-7579]

is it common to have a "Creative QA" to make sure certain things actually make physical sense because that sounds really interesting

[@DoktrDub]

As an artist and firearms enthusiast myself, I’m all for realistically functional guns, but I don’t nitpick quirky or weird excessive/non-useful aesthetics or parts when it comes to science fiction, because it’s science fiction and getting weird with weapon design is all part of the act usually.

[@FurryWrecker911]

@@goodsirbear-7579 It varies from job to job. Some places have dedicated QAs. Other places make it a job responsibility of pre-existing roles, ie once you become a CG Generalist level II or III you have to perform peer reviews of your team's work every other day. That's how it worked at my last job.

[@FurryWrecker911]

@@DoktrDub I can jive with this.

[@UmbraeNaught]

​@@FurryWrecker911Thank you for trying to make them functional I appreciate working guns so much more than "it looks cool". And kinda unrelated, do you think the recent loss in a lot of QA workers in the industry is why we're seeing more dysfunctional weapons?

[@Zerothedragon.50cal2]

15:11 All I heard was Bullet.

[@clownworld4655]

I found the funniest part being that somehow there are a lot of VSS just sitting around several centuries after the end of the world despite already being extremely rare now. Would make more sense if it was an AR15 as the old world rifle

[@AICW]

@@lumeronswift Not anymore. The AR-15's production numbers have overtaken the SKS. Last year Business Insider published an article showing there are 20 million AR-15 rifles in the United States and that's just the numbers in civilian hands, not counting police, paramilitary, and military. The highest estimate of SKS production is only 15 million rifles, and there are a lot more companies building AR-15s today than SKSs. Of course, both guns are still far outnumbered by the top 3 guns that were most produced: the Mosin-Nagant rifle, the Gewehr 98 rifle, and of course, the AK-47 series.

[@bunk95]

I have a basement in an abandoned building we could clean.

[@xavierspirit1811]

B-b-but those are scwarie

[@blandeauxfillaskii7344]

I think it is on purpose. no way they can get it that bad on a booboo

[@user-uc4vg4rg9e]

Maybe the russians won after all, could explain some of these wierd guns.

[@lightninglash5366]

The best fact about the coachman is that, if you use the expanded ammo legendary effect one, the left barrel holds 1 round and the right holds 3 but you reload 2.

[@EllisJohnstone]

Family guy gun

[@ZeroHourProductions407]

Todd Howard shipped starfield expecting to get an award for it. He even showed up to The Game Awards, expecting to get an award, and genuinely upset that he left empty handed 😂

[@stevenstrattonjr]

And likely paid absurd amounts of money for a condescending message to all the GotY nominees lol

[@jonteet]

"He even showed up" why the fuck would he not show up? they were literally nominated. are you braindead?

[@j-jam0440]

37:28 he named his Gun “ Drum Beat my kids” 💀

[@RelativelyBest]

Gun nerds: "These weapons are totally unrealistic!" Sword nerds: "First time?"

[@ege8240]

honestly swords being unrealistic can be fine because it depends on the user rather than hardware

[@RelativelyBest]

@@ege8240 I really kinda doesn't.

[@CainDB]

​@@RelativelyBestwell if you know how to use a sword that is chipped across whole blade you would be an expert of blade breaking mid-fight, a chipped sword can easily break straight swords of your opponents

[@RelativelyBest]

@@CainDB A chipped sword isn't unrealistic, it's just damaged. (Also, I have no idea what you mean by chipped swords easily breaking blades. A good sword doesn't break easily under any circumstances, and a damaged one would if anything be less durable.) I meant, you know, fantasy swords that are 100% designed for aesthetics and not at all to be practical weapons. Which is pretty much how the guns in Starfield are designed: They're meant to look cool but if you know how firearms work it's pretty obvious the people at Bethesda don't. Or, more likely, they don't really care.

[@CainDB]

@@RelativelyBest my English isn't really that good, by chipped sword I've meant those blades that look like sword of the Litch King from World of Warcraft, any close combat weapon can be effective if you know how to use it

[@TactiWolf-0117]

My theory behind the “calibers” in the game is that it’s going off the generic caliber size since none of the ammo have any bore dimensions labeled. Like how .50 BMG, .50 AE, .50 Beowulf, and 500 Magnum are all .50 caliber bullets but each are different due to the guns that fire them but honestly it could totally just be space magic

[@andreibaciu7518]

One idea they should've used is modular cartridges, where you can double or triple up the case to create a rifle round from two pistol rounds. It would even make for an interesting game mechanic, and it would actually work since the amunition is supposedly caseless

[@joelfilho2625]

@@andreibaciu7518 The ammunition isn't caseless on all weapons. Just a handful of them like the double barrel space shotty. Obviously, the old earth guns still use traditional casing cartridges, and a few of the "future" weapons also eject ammunition casings, so... also, I feel like modular cartridges aren't a particularly great idea mostly because of projectile profile. Your rifle projectile should be heavier and more "AP-shaped" than your pistol projectile. Maybe you can do it with sharing ammo between an SMG and a pistol since they can employ similar calibers/bullet profiles, but the game clearly doens't model that.

[@ghosterino]

They've always done this, even in the Fallout games

[@Kattbirb]

It's reminiscent of the .32 Revolver and the Hunting Rifle sharing ammo back in Fallout 3.

[@dawsonparker1685]

Shit like that is the reason i like mass effects approach They just use thermal clips rather than using a set caliber, so all guns can use any thermal clip but the gun itself is what creates the projectile and determines what it does

[@equidistanthoneyjoy7600]

There's something you missed on the regulator, instead of rotating in one direction like you would expect a revolver to it just goes back and forth between two positions. You can tell by the little groove in the side of the cylinder, which goes down on one shot then back up on the next.

[@hunterhudson4577]

I was looking for this comment lmao, but yeah thats real bad fuck up

[@MekamiEye]

Saw that and had to make sure someone else commented on that. That's just lazy animation design.

[@InfraredScale]

The weird thing is, most games use a loopable animation that pretends to rotate the cylinder and instantly snaps it back in a single frame, which is easier to implement and looks more realistic. It takes extra effort to make the cylinder go back and forth with each shot

[@thinix396]

it could just be some kind of rotating mechanism that holds a rotating bolt in place, which wouldn't do well in rugged environments but makes sense mechanically at least

[@schnek8927]

@@InfraredScale They likely just play the same animation in reverse, because (let's be honest) they're not smart or educated enough to think of even the most basic of animation techniques.

[@vijjr]

20:04 the lithium battery attachment is very important

[@EdlesÖsterreich]

fun fact: due to mormon family stuff... (dont ask me how it works), the man who invented the m1911 pistol, John Browning is my 3rd cousin 4 times removed.

[@georgewhitworth9742]

OG Mormonisim was WILD, lol

[@bloodyhell8201]

Family tree like a recycling symbol

[@jaredray7034]

How did he get removed from the family tree four times? More importantly, what did he have to do to get back in?

[@theencolony5595]

​@@jaredray7034 "x times removed" is how many generations apart you are, so similar age to great-grandparents

[@D9fjg]

john browning is vietnamese?

[@yocapo32]

The weirdest part of the shotgun is that it has the trigger group and grip of an MG42, which *maybe* was supposed to be a reference to Hicks's shotgun in Aliens having the pistol grip of an MP40, but they got the gun wrong?

[@Cold_Cactus]

It is suposed to be the shotgun from alien

[@Softpaw1996]

did they get any gun right? xD

[@yocapo32]

@@Cold_Cactus It would explain why it ejects so fucking weird if it was meant to be an Ithaca 37.

[@kaibowman4803]

Can we talk about the sheer, ultra-luger grip angle of EVERY FUTURISTIC PISTOL?

[@ytv2779]

It doesn't take a gun nut to be jarred by the unnatural and clunky gun design in this game. You hit on a lot of points that I experienced myself in my playthrough. Thanks for putting this together!

[@nicomace3414]

The collectible revolver line must be a reference to fallout 4, when Jack Cabot gives you the artifact gun, and calls it a laser rifle that uses standard fusion cells, when it is, in fact, a gamma gun that uses gamma rounds.

[@VHSo_o]

"no no, you misunderstand. we didn't accidentally fuck up. we fucked up on PURPOSE as a CALLBACK to a time when we accidentally fucked up."

[@thomaskilroy3199]

Bethesda clearly still write and record their scripts very early in the development process, but make design and asset changes much close to the deadline. Hence incongruous dialogue galore. They had these quest rewards pencilled in as 'energy weapon's or 'old earth handgun', but then didn't design the thing for a year, and have no system in place for re-recording dialogue.

[@elijahebbert6884]

​@@VHSo_o😂

[@pandapancakes37]

"A descendant of the ancient race of Californians" was crazy😂😂

[@adamofblastworks1517]

That's what really hooked me into the rest of the video.

[@hendrix8602]

it really seems like a case of a bunch of different people working on the same thing, not talking to each other, doing it on a rush and having management constantly ordering changes with no regards to previous work

[@tformerdude6788]

So, triple A being triple A? 🤔

[@B007-r1w]

Considering they apparently had no unifying design document... yeah this sounds spot on

[@kkammei]

Definitely seems like it. Even recently, the design director Emil Pagliarulo had practically said to not get mad at him because he didn't make x thing. . . But like he's one of the top guys. He's the design director. If something wasn't top quality, just because he wasn't the one that made it, it was still under his watch.

[@PsychoTaco-cz2qi]

my head canon for the terrible gun design is that peoples’ IQs went down in the future, kind of like the medieval era

[@cellulanus]

1:37 The thing is I think the Old Earth Pistol was actually commissioned, and modified, to be the standard sidearm for the first wave explorers, so it was designed to be used by people wearing much older and chunkier suits. Or rather designed to be used with every spacesuit ever. It would still qualify as Old Earth being manufactured on Earth before it was lost.

[@whocares435-z9v]

That's a good headcanon!

[@oneblacksun]

Okay, but why use such an old gun design? By that time, the Beretta and Glock would've been much more readily available and much easier to modify and reproduce.

[@cellulanus]

@@oneblacksun Because Two World Wars.

[@whyistheclocktickingsomuch]

​@cellulanus got past 2 world wars =/= good the Mosin was relatively unreliable for a rifle but it was made in 1891 and is still in use today

[@thelastplaguedoctor6992]

But the Mosin isn't a pistol. Don't you dare mention the sawed-off Mosin

[@thnecromaniac]

The reason the laser sight is non functioning, is because its made in a corporate dystopia. "Comes with a laser sight" Fine print: "must buy the laser sight activation package to use"

[@SparkFrost64]

Something I Just noticed on the Regulator. The cylinder looks like it just goes back and forth in two positions making it look like you are only firing the same two bullets until you reload, truly a monstrosity of gun design.

[@thegamingdino83]

It kinda looks like a weird combination of the 5.56 revolver and the 12.7 pistol. Wait, did I say weird, I meant cursed.

[@severihelin7310]

i noticed the same and it really does make you question if starfield devs know how guns work

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

@@severihelin7310they don’t and I think it’s safe to say that at this point

[@severihelin7310]

@@user-ns4zm8qe9p would it really take too much effort for a million dollar company to put some effort into making the guns atleast work somewhat xd

[@SentiNel090]

@jbiehlable That's because it is, kinda. That Gun and it's predecessor in FO2 is a reference to Deckard's gun in the Blade Runner.

[@jeremielebrun3637]

ejecting a shell before firing it is clearly a futuristic design.

[@notarealcop7673]

If I had to guess why all the first and third person animations are so different, it would probably be that they only ever intended for you to "see" the first person ones, and keep them simple/clear for gameplay, while the third person animations will be entirely observed through enemies and allies, who are allowed to have fancier looking or longer animations I guess.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

It is actually known that Bethesda has considered the third-person camera to be just a "vanity" kind of thing for checking out your character, rather than something you'd seriously play the game with. I don't know if their attitude has changed over the many years, but this definitely was the case as of Fallout 3's release.

[@Paradox_Alucard]

​@@LonelySpaceDetective Which is ironic given the fact that I tend to play most of the fallout games in third person anyway.

[@shortgiraffe700]

The coachman not having a trigger is the funniest oversight ever, literally how the fuck do you forget that

[@DarthWall275]

You can't see it in first person, so it's kinda irrelevant TBH.

[@Echoe-14]

@@DarthWall275But you model it by looking at in in 3d, how do you miss the part that makes the gun go *boom* when you literally modeled the ENTIRE THING

[@ryanvandoren1519]

​​@DarthWall275 Bethesda defence force mobilized!

[@donovanjoseph737]

@@DarthWall275Every time you view the gun in your inventory, you can see it clearly missing any form of trigger. Even people who don’t know anything about firearms could reasonably notice a lack of any form of trigger.

[@alexmathews8172]

Bethesda seems to know as much about guns as they do about making a consistently good game.

[@unoriginalperson72]

They should stick to making swords, axes, and maces because clearly they know more about those than actual guns. Heck the outlandish designs work better on a sharp peice of metal.

[@Kymaera]

​@@unoriginalperson72 They really don't though, most of the weapon (and armor) designs in the Elder Scrolls games are pretty terrible if you judge them against proper medieval weapons. Generally the lower tiers (like iron and steel) are alright but still have minor issues, and the higher tier weapons are almost all complete dogshit. Also I strongly disagree with your second statement, whether modern or medieval, all weapon designs need to feel like useable weapons or else it breaks immersion. Games are able to get away with bad design because most people don't know enough about weapons to see the issues. I think it's easier to get away with bad medieval weapons than bad guns just because more people are familiar with guns.

[@skebaba918]

@@Kymaera Bruh you rly think GLASS armor would be useful IRL? Come the fuck on, all that shit is clearly enchanted, rendering the actual physical design of the gear itself moot, because they essentially have energy fields to inflict element-type damage etc, instead of using the piece of metal itself to hit physical dmg

[@SYLRMHA]

How could they...they only made one good one

[@dorroshur9186]

@@Kymaera didnt know i ordered a yappuchino