EVO 2008: The Biggest Upset in Competitive Gaming History

[@Brawlternative]

there's a post credits scene 🤫

[@tehgendo]

are you getting recruited to shield?!

[@Oz1455]

thanks for the spoiler bra.

[@tinyclover3849]

top player ken nutorious for his love of items

[@GaybrohamStinkton]

Enjoyed nutritious items, Kirby main

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

My main Kirby is here!

[@Ender-Logan]

CPU just being like 'oh yeah i know' and then playing Guitar Hero on his DS is actually the funniest reaction he could have had

[@Brawlternative]

I was genuinely reading the interview and CRACKING UP they're so gd funny

[@brennantmi5063]

@@Brawlternative I've long know about the story of Ken at his prime getting cheesed out by a camping item spamming 15 year old, I did not know CPU was an avengers level threat giga chad. Considering how unfathomably based I now know he was I'm impressed that Ken was even able to take a game off him. Watching Ken try to play neutral into someone so sigma pilled they just say "naw. we aren't playing neutral this game" and proceed to circle camp until a smash ball spawns is like watching a man try to play checkers in a tick tack toe event.

[@kellymountain]

​@@brennantmi5063 none of these words are comprehensible

[@aquadose7866]

​@@brennantmi5063this comment is golden

[@gamerdomain6618]

Two kinds of people. ↑

[@x2raScoop]

The storyline of a random teenager winning a smash tournament, at the largest fighting game event, with the wackiest ruleset, against the best smash player, all because he so happened to be there on vacation is such a Brawl moment. I love it.

[@Brawlternative]

Someone on twitter called it the "Disney XD storyline" LMFAOOO

[@thomascarroll9707]

​@@BrawlternativeThat is the funniest and most brawl thing I've ever heard

[@Steph_N]

Just as Sakurai intended

[@GaybrohamStinkton]

Nickelodeon would have made an original movie of it I have little doubt

[@BrimBlam]

quite literally as he intended. I bet he watched this tournament with a satisfied grin the whole time​@@Steph_N

[@infernox1099]

He's called the king of smash, but can't even beat a CPU at the game

[@almond5284]

To be fair, it was level 15.

[@LoraLoibu]

@@almond5284 both of you get a like

[@greenswing7681]

@@almond5284 KZbin comments are a blessing

[@bhjihari6685]

Watching the matches back, I'm amazed at how well CPU was playing. Dude had items on lock and understood the game so well for how briefly it had been out

[@Brawlternative]

Judging from the rest of the interview, CPU and Skinny both just really, REALLY liked Brawl. I think it's kinda charming that two MEGA casuals won the most casual ruleset major Brawl had ever seen LOLL

[@MrMariosonicman]

it makes me wish there was an items tournament set so we could see competitive item plays. it would be so facinating seeing the speed of collecting and throwing items.

[@xolotltolox7626]

@@MrMariosonicman alpharad did a "casual invitational" for Ultimate a couple of times

[@Brawlternative]

@@xolotltolox7626 VOUCH FOR ALPHARAD'S CASUAL INVITATIONAL it's worth watching the whole thing, banger tournament

[@Magic_Ice]

@@BrawlternativeWuhu Island 4 Life that stage is the king of competitive-casual play

[@scarletnoct5807]

CPU should have been hailed as a genius at the game that was played, he's not some random kid who only won because items were on. He was a kid who won because he *knew* items were on, he deserved to win over Ken every day of the week in these circumstances

[@tireiron3452]

>Goes on vacation with family >Joins tournament because you happen to be nearby >Use items to win games >Fight the champion, don't even care >Kick his ass >Refuse to elaborate >Leave

[@666blaziken]

He's a Chad, I'm glad people are viewing him in a more positive light now at days. Would be funny to see him get top 8, in an ultimate tournament.

[@pokkiheart]

>Plays guitar hero

[@wrongwayscout]

tehcnically, he did elaborate in that interview.

[@MisterSpeedStacking]

they elaborated though

[@zombye11]

@@pokkiheart> on the DS

[@Shmicah1235]

Okay but does anybody appreciate the one nair CPU did to win the one stock while recovering? Bro was hardly on screen and had the awareness to see Ken coming out for him so he swung and caught Ken lacking on the tech. Just saying, that's actually some really good awareness. Factor them discussing counterpicks too, and these kids weren't just "lucky" and "carried by Brawl taking less skill." They had a genuine good sense for the win condition and how to play it out

[@noonehere6994]

exactly. Like, items WERE on, but I say that CPU knew exactly what they were doing. He may have had items but he didn't luck out. You can clearly see that he has competitive knowledge and at least some fundies as well.

[@Tinil0]

His gameplay footage shows he absolutely had some skills at the game. It wasn't like he just picked it up, he knew how to play. Maybe no to the extent that sweatlords did with melee, but yeah, he wasn't just a random casual. He was above decent and knew how to take advantage of items which is a smart way to plan.

[@StellarisVT]

100% you can tell the kid was actually pretty good at the game, especially for the time. He absolutely coulda been a promising player in no-item rulesets if he wasnt bullied out of the scene.

[@noonehere6994]

@@StellarisVT This, 100%. Items (or Ken's lack of knowledge of it) did give him an edge against Ken, but even without it he would have very well been an above average player in the scene, seeing as how he had fundies outside of items. It's absolutely ridiculous how he had to bear the burden of the horrible rule set and be bullied out of the scene permanently. Smash community toxicity doesn't go anywhere, I guess...

[@TurbopropPuppy]

if you actually know the game, and you are good at it, you can win with items on; people who can only win with items off have not mastered the game

[@MicDISCO]

Had no idea how badass CPU was. So glad we got some perspective in this. I thought this was a random guy who played casually, but instead he sounds like someone who just knew how to play the game as Nintendo intended. Mad lad!

[@aninnocentbystander119]

CPU is still around, probably. CPU, where ever you are, you didn't deserve any hate for this. Instead, you did something incredible and contributed to competitive game history in a way no player has or, will ever. You will be remembered as a legend.

[@LaterXavier-TX]

​@@MojoMonkeyI'm seeing a guy named Buu at least on Twitter. Is that him?

[@Sol_Calibre]

Any footage???​@@MojoMonkey

[@pitdarkangel2961]

The ruleset was heavily item RNG dependent, but that was something everybody knew going into the tournament. There are competitive games where RNG plays a big role and learning to play around it is a part of players' skill expression. If only CPU and his brother really bothered to use everything to the fullest, then their placements are completely deserved, and bullying two promising kids out of the scene because they did is loser behaviour.

[@Brawlternative]

Agreed :) the internet was a very different place in 2008, I don't think it would've had as much of a one-sided "CPU didn't deserve to win" if the tournament took place in modern Smash

[@Beast_the_smash_guy]

​@@BrawlternativeI don't fully agree. Look at the younger Steve players doing well and how gard they get bullied because they use a busted character to win

[@unconcernedsalad2]

yeah i have to agree heavily with this comment. honestly like… no one in the venue thought to practice and study items? no one thought to pick characters who were good with items? ITEMS WERE ON, USE THEM!

[@Kuchito08]

@@unconcernedsalad2 Smash players (and people who play games competitively as a whole) can be extremely stubborn.

[@Rl55322]

@@Beast_the_smash_guyI mean there’s a bit of a difference between a kid using a broken character to win matches (especially since some characters have an almost unwinnable matchup against Steve) vs a pro player failing to adapt to the rule set. Cuz CPU’s win was really a reflection of Ken’s failure to properly adapt to the rules. TLDR: kids nowadays take a shortcut with a broken character, but cpu won due to ken’s shortcomings so people probably would view it differently

[@un1d]

“Justin Wong was there” “Huh I didn’t know that he ever played smash! Wonder why he doesn’t play it anymore?” “But he got chaingrabbed to the yoshis island walkoff” “Ah”

[@FalseHerald]

He's also played 64 before, with similar results.

[@Marisu_Prada]

CPU really lived up to the romantic notion that: _"EVO is the people's tournament, you don't need an invitation to get in. And if you're cut up to it, you can come out on top, from nothing, to a champion"_

[@superbaas8822]

And then the community got pissed it wasn't "their" champion.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@superbaas8822 Who won in a "bad" way. The Smash scene would be way better today if tournaments required smash ball to be on.

[@crimsonnight824]

As horrible of a tournament it was in terms of ruleset, this has to be one of the best stories I've heard in a while and I was smiling the whole time while watching. Well deserved to CPU for using all the tools available to him to take out a supposedly more skilled player.

[@Brawlternative]

YESSSS people shit on him so much for winning, but i feel like its 1000000% respectable to play to his advantages

[@josephd8129]

@@Brawlternative He definitely doesn't deserve the hate. I assume they knew the ruleset before playing they had every opportunity to get better with items. I've played with asinine rule sets before and I would never blame the player for being better in that format. I've also dabbled in speedrunning and I would never say a runner playing a niche category is objectively worse than a runner running a popular one. Disappointing that he caught flak but I guess that's just the early internet for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@skeetermania3202]

@@josephd8129Objectively bad and good literally don’t exist, m8.

[@BKBK-yo1zz]

Imagine bullying a kid for winning a tournament what a bunch of losers

[@EtanMarlin]

seriously 😭

[@christianred9730]

Anonymity let's you say what you would never say at all

[@Butt6969]

Ya im so glad that doesn't happen anymore in the smash community!

[@hedgehugs]

for real directing their hate to the kid and not the tournament rules is wild lol

[@pigeonleader]

The phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game" never been so true

[@RabanoDoom]

"a byproduct of how intensely awful people were on the internet in 2008" man this could happen on twitter tomorrow

[@showdowncraft1659]

Some things never change

[@roscoes-wetsuit1]

The switch from 4:3 to 16:9 was masterful

[@Liggliluff]

I didn't even notice that it happen. Funny thing though, if KZbin supported dynamic aspect ratio, and the first section was set to 4:3, the image would actually become smaller when going over to 16:9.

[@ExeloMinish]

I remember Asumsaus roughly saying at one point that competitive Smash players don't love Smash itself: they love a small, specific and heavily curated part of Smash. This incident is pretty much the pure incarnation of that: CPU won _because_ he was a casual, and as such had a lot of experience actually interacting with the rest of the game instead of dismissing it. That bit where the bros assumed Ken just... didn't know what the bumper does was really telling. Well, that and from the footage kid was actually pretty darn good overall.

[@PhysicsGamer]

They were right, too, which is the wild part. Imagine if Smash pros had spent the last 16 years learning how items worked instead of whining about that one time a kid won a tournament. Banning the smash ball is especially bizarre, like if Guilty Gear players banned supers...

[@bungusmcchungus]

@@PhysicsGamer yeah, banning an item that randomly spawns on a completely random part of the stage that grants an instant kill move to whoever manages to get it is exactly the same as banning a reliably buildable meter that does significant damage to the opponent if you manage to skillfully combo into it

[@Cuddlebear6285]

​@@PhysicsGamerOkay, I don't like the "no-fun" mentality in competitive smash, but that is literally the most unequivocal and stupid comparison I've ever heard. How are you this dumb?

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@bungusmcchungus What you describe is called a "flashpoint" and in a lot of competitive games is considered a feature rather than a bug.

[@Super_EpicGuy]

I only heard that some kid had joined for fun and managed to win first, I never heard the scoop that that "random kid" had more knowledge about Brawl than any other player who showed up. That changes my entire perspective on the win, and now I think CPU 100% deserved to win that tournament

[@PhysicsGamer]

Pity the community reacted the way they did. If they hadn't then the pros might have wound up actually learning how to use items - or at least final smashes, at a minimum. That would have been nice.

[@mullet_muffins]

The fact that so many bullied CPU, a literal child, shows how obsessively stupid parts of the competitive community can be at times

[@Professor_Utonium_]

they insist on avoiding 90% of the content in the game for the sake of "competitive fairness", no pro Smash player is sane

[@TSCSabre]

One minor correction to the video, EVO 2008 was not CPU's last tournament! He actually popped up several years later (I think around 2017 or so) as a Melee Falco player at SoCal locals, and never made the regional rankings but was pretty solid. No idea if he's still playing, but it's cool that he came back to competing in smash almost a decade after this EVO win

[@FierceGalactaKnight]

I hope that today CPU knows he's a legend

[@kazuyawest631]

He's a pretty decent melee player now.

[@Valentinesdayghost]

@@kazuyawest631 top tier joke, earned my like and my respect

[@lgachaboyyt]

@Valentinesdayghost huh?

[@RosalinaSama]

actually really impressed by his use of glide tossing in these clips as well, he clearly wasn't a complete casual

[@HannahPlaysDisks]

Honestly? There is some poetic beauty on CPU's whole gameplan. People didn't understand his play and decided to blame it on the game and items while glossing the genius and strategizing both him and his brother went through. The Character Pick, the item play, the stages essential parts if the same Competitive game we know and love (or hate). These two KNEW smash like the back of their palms and proved that alone can get you places if given the right chance.

[@HannahPlaysDisks]

Imagine just a timeline where Skinny and CPU end in Grands, if that timeline were to exist it'll be honestly the soul of smash to look onto now days.

[@Abomdosnow]

"CPU can have his items, Ken has a legacy." ☝🤓

[@GoonCommander]

"Exploit marth's lack of long range" I didn't think I'd ever hear this sentence

[@ExaltedUriel]

Well to be fair, disjoints vs projectiles is a pretty big difference

[@huyphan7825]

Marth was done dirty in Brawl.

[@neverlikedunown]

As a Survivor fan, it's nice to see some alternative content about Ken, the King of Gabon.

[@tahpramen9181]

I was going to comment something about Gabon but I couldn't think of something clever enough - I only just recently put it together in my head that it was the same guy lol

[@daxmoney5011]

8:25 100% it does not help that in the early days of smash the west coast actually used to have items on for melee which Ken played on in like 02-03/04. So in conclusion the 15 year old was just better ngl

[@okcheesestick]

Born too late to experience items melee

[@lgachaboyyt]

@@okcheesesticktoo early for alpharad

[@sonpo6177]

"CPU can have his items, Ken has a Legacy." The Legacy of getting beaten by a IRL CPU. It's called playing smart, not being unfair. You have to use what you have, I don't see what's wrong with that.

[@nandreshiram2269]

This run from CPU is something I personally feel can never be replicated in ANY game ever again, and not just in Smash. The internet now knows so much about competitive games before they’re even officially released, which is a stark contrast from 2008. And also, the skill ceiling is just way higher from every professional player now, so much so that if you took a melee player from 2005-2008 and put them against a 2024 melee player, it would be such a beat down from the modern players. These moments are so legendary and are a testament to how esports has evolved across the whole scene, and shows just how much work went into making our favorite games the competitive machines they are today. Also we need an official items-on Smash tournament, it would be PEAK.

[@PhysicsGamer]

Or at least have smash balls consistently be on...

[@DynamicLemons]

I love how accidentally bm that interview is. glad CPU won, bro accidentally made one of the funniest events in competitive smash history

[@gamenwatch6269]

Smash bros fanbase bullied a kid in 2008, too? Here we are smashers still bullying kids for winning with Steve in Ultimate tournaments. Guess the playerbase will never change.

[@JamesP7]

I don’t know why people feel so compelled to use being a child as a shield. CPU didn’t deserve the bullying, but Steve players deserve the callout for maining a cheat character. The age of the player isn’t relevant; it’s the game that’s the problem, not the person exploiting it to win. “Don’t hate the player, hate the game” and all that.

[@LexSchilperoord]

​@@JamesP7You say Steve players deserve a callout, and then say to hate the game not the players?

[@DustyMusician]

Steve feels like divine punishment for the Smash community's transgressions

[@JamesP7]

@@LexSchilperoord Yeah? It’s the character that’s bad, not the player. I agree with Hbox that no player deserves to be harassed for their character choice (and he particularly understands from experience).

[@LexSchilperoord]

@@JamesP7 You honestly made it sound ambiguous, like the Steve players do deserve harassment, but my bad for misinterpreting it. I also agree with the HBox take.

[@huyphan7825]

CPU was the Tabula Rasa Smash needed. Showing the organizers needed to take rules seriously and not for granted as something provided by a product built in. I hope he and his brother, Skinny, are doing well somewhere out there right now.

[@huyphan7825]

Using Tokyo Mirage Sessions' Common Battle Music at 2:42 put an unreasonably large smile on my face. Thank You Man

[@StarlightEcho912]

EVO's Brawl bracket is a fascinating case study in why Melee is considered so much more elitist than smash's modern competitive scene. It's a good thing that a prominent tournament hasn't had such a wild ruleset since EVO. Separating classic smash from modern smash has been enough of a mixed bag.

[@FlamingZelda3]

tbf top ultimate players smoke everyone beneath them even though the game is very upset heavy. I didn't have a lot of respect for modern smash players until I saw some of them hop on melee. Their combo games were nonexsitant (to be expected when playing melee for the first time), but their neutral games and spacing were incredible. Gave me even more respect when I saw the contrast in how top melee players really tend to struggle in ult. Not to say ult or melee are better than the other, just that ult skills seem to carry over to melee, but not so much the other way.

[@holymoly-pd2yy]

​@@FlamingZelda3I think it should also be worth mentioning both games mechanics regarding inputs and it can be argued that going from 6 frames of delay and 10 frames of buffer to 2 or 3 frames of delay with no buffer (buffer only exists in a few actions) is better than the other way around as well as moving from a game that's slower paced with limited techniques to a game that's faster with more freedom

[@PhysicsGamer]

I think the Smash community would probably be in a much better place if tournaments at least had smash ball on by standard. All items might be a bit far, but turning off the smash ball feels like turning off supers in other fighting games...

[@StarlightEcho912]

@@PhysicsGamer If they adjust the way Smash meter works, I'd love to see a fs meta. Final Smashes are awesome, it just happens most of them are WAY too strong with an imbalance of power/counterplay, even on meter.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@StarlightEcho912 That would on its own go a long way to livening up matches, I would say! And just using the smash meter would definitely go a bit further towards making it work like supers do. But I do think the smash ball is a pretty key element - it forces characters to use techniques they often otherwise wouldn't, and forces a "flashpoint" to emerge on the stage. Either way I'd expect it to be fun, of course. And given we've gone 16 years of Brawl without any sort of Final Smash being available by standard... it's really long past time for _something_

[@Awesomeness-iz3dh]

I can't believe people were mad at this. How can you hear about a child beating a top player in grand finals and not think it's the funniest shit in the world? I hope a 12 year old beats MKLeo at the next Ult major.

[@defectivesickle5643]

It's funny if you weren't there at the time and weren't invested in Brawl's competitive scene

[@defectivesickle5643]

@@brunch. I'm not talking about if you were a player at the event. It's if you were in the discussion of Brawl as a competitive game, or were an advocate for Melee, or whether or not you think Smash without items wasn't "True" Smash, what have you

[@mr.sniffly5297]

@@defectivesickle5643i’d say it still should have been funny as hell for the people there to watch it happen

[@gaivsvalerivs5818]

It's funny cause mk Leo once was a kid beating the best players in the world in both brawl and smash 4.

[@beam5655]

I don't play this game but I understand why people were frustrated. The format was a joke. Imagine if the World Chess Championship suddenly implemented dice rolling and coin flipping, chess players would be up in arms because it would take away from the competitive integrity of the match. That's what's happening here; by allowing items and crazy stages, competitive integrity is reduced.

[@vincentskater]

How exciting that must have been as a 15 year old, to win a smash bros tournament that you didn't even intend on going to, and to share it with your sibling too, that's so awesome. Very unfortunate that CPU was bullied, but I think you did an amazing job sharing this hilarious story, and I think we can look back very fondly on it, and maybe even learn the importance of Rulesets too! :))))) 10/10 video, also sick editing for Ken combo

[@XxKyle318xX]

Its important to remember that ken literally just got home from survivor during this tournament as well he was starved af lol

[@kiwikarp9509]

Survivor the TV show? How did he get there?

[@reganverses3003]

​@@kiwikarp9509 Ken was a contestant on Gabon

[@btf_flotsam478]

Still got 2nd, so that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[@markkealy4417]

And Im sure CPU had stayed up late playing guitar hero on DS

[@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer]

Survivor Johns.

[@Nixitur]

Honestly, CPU played really smart. He _played the game,_ he played the format, and he rightfully won. He wasn't just button mashing, he had a good strategy and knew how to exploit his opponent's weaknesses. If you go to an items-on tournament and you don't practice how to use items, tough beans, that is literally your fault.

[@maxpower7612]

I'm glad that CPU is finally getting his flowers over 15 years later... He hit the lab with his bro, found the winning strategy of the day, and earned the W against Ken. Respect

[@qwertyrhino9497]

The 4:3 resolution is nostalgic.

[@calvinnguyen1870]

Probably just a skill issue tbh

[@tylervigue3878]

This is fricken hilarious 😂 Also that Ken title transition at 2:40 was mint

[@timnoskill]

You have no idea how long I’ve been waiting for this, even started writing a script myself a year or two back. So fucking awesome

[@Oz1455]

That kid knew how to short hop aerials, that is more than you can say for the average wifi player nowadays.

[@BurningNight314]

I went into this video thinking the title was clickbait, but dang, that's such a good story. I'm so glad that kid won the whole thing. We need more people playing with items on. Having a deep understanding of how items work in a strong competitive match with skilled players is like the most fun thing in these games.

[@Daniel-qd6qg]

I remember this match. They had a "how to get into competitive Smash" thing on the Wii Shop Channel, and I used to watch it like crazy. It would always hype me up and was my first experience watching competitive, which got me hooked. Good times. Fond memories. :)

[@ironcicadamkw5241]

Too bad this didn't happen these days. I'd make like a dozen chad memes about CPU out of both ironic and sincere enjoyment of his tournament. What a legend.

[@Ogwardo]

Whenever I watch your videos I'm amazed by the editing, so high quality!

[@matthewjones6786]

I think it’s awesome that this ruleset, however controversial, allowed some random kid a chance at winning, with items as the great equalizer. Just as our lord Sakurai intended!

[@GHXST_EXISTS_]

"Yeah, I just play for fun! :3" And he also knows how to roll-cancel item toss. My goat

[@Champiness]

CPU stepping up like “You merely adopted the party game”

[@mememasterm]

The way the video changes from 4:3 to widescreen is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while, great video

[@Vixigard]

Random child beats the best player at the time, that’s brawl for ya

[@Hoenn101]

Brawl is probably overall one of the most consistent games

[@Daydream-Lover]

Ken was absolutely not the best brawl player at the time. There is no doubt in my mind that mew2king would've smoked this kid.

[@Oz1455]

That sounds more like Smash Ultimate to me.

[@javier5842]

Exactly. If items are on, stage list is Evo's and the top player is a guy who doesn't play that game competitively.

[@Vixigard]

@@Daydream-Lover Ken was known as the god of smash this was before the era of the 5 gods for melee so mew2king wasnt as active

[@TheJoshmou]

Thanks for bringing back this. I'm sure that as many others, I wouldn't have learned about this crazy story if it wasn't for the video. Amazing work, as usual!

[@Flash33c]

Sure the ruleset and stage list was weird but considering people knew that going in it seems to me that they really had no one to blame but themselves for not taking advantage of it as well as CPU and his brother did. Did items help them win? Yes. Did they rely solely on items to win? No, and it's a crying shame that they were bullied out of the community by people who were just blinded by their prejudices, hatred, greed and jealousy. It wouldn't surprise me that much if their performances in this tournament in some small way helped pave the way for the Nintendo sponsored Smash Invitational players, as the players there didn't rely solely on items and Final Smashes to win either.

[@vyor8837]

They kinda... didn't know that going in. They didn't have many days to plan and practice before the tourny after it was announced.

[@superbaas8822]

​@@vyor8837And yet, they still knew and made use of what they learned. If anything, others had MORE prep time and did LESS with it.

[@vyor8837]

@@superbaas8822 what do you mean? People that only ever played casually had infinitely more prep time because they didn't have to relearn the game and maps.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@vyor8837 You know, maybe designing the tournaments so that they're a _completely_ different game than anyone plays at home was a bad idea.

[@vyor8837]

@@PhysicsGamer I personally don't play with items turned on and never have. They're too random.

[@honkedoffjohn]

15 year old child: This is your king? Ha. *proceeds to play on his Nintendo DS*

[@RadikAlice]

This is hilarious to me, but the biggest reason being people going "This is the worst!" Because man, the Bayonetta mirror in finals (World's lamest Mexican standoff) and that one Smash 64 set that went on for actual hours are objectively worse

[@matt4kz]

this is genuinely insane and I am shocked I have never heard of this having been into smash for so long. Crazy. Kid was clearly good too, I mean for one you dont make it to grand finals off of flukes, but look at 5:23, this is a crazy reversal lol. I really wonder if he kept up with the scene at all despite not really being respected at the time

[@matt4kz]

Seriously tho this sounds like a made up story 100% lmao. A young kid shows up to a tournament with items on and beats Ken in grand finals to win the entire thing... insane

[@VanillaScoopYGO]

Please keep making these videos

[@WindlessZephyr]

that poor kid, man. i hope he's doin' well these days, whatever he's up to

[@SushiElemental]

Yeah Ken is doing fine 😁

[@WindlessZephyr]

@@SushiElemental u think ur so funny well you are, i laughed

[@KeeperOfTheGate02]

“-..they extended that malice to the child that used it to their advantage.” When ‘the competitive smash community’ and ‘children’ are are included in the same sentence or headline, it’s always something worth getting upset over.

[@kactuskurt]

7:09 everybody go do yourself a favor and pause to read the whole response lmao this is a true gem

[@PingPongMan3377]

I just found out that this EVO took place within one week of Ken returning to the U.S. after being on Survivor. So within two weeks, he came close to winning but came in 5th place on Survivor, and then he came even closer to winning EVO but came in 2nd place.

[@Brass319]

it's easy to say that items are awful but like, they're a part of the game and reward stage control. They can absolutely make the situation more random but the better player will ultimately win more. Hells, final smash meter in ultimate, which is _supposed_ to be a comeback mechanic, punishes the player with less positional and/or mechanical skill since if you can't seal stocks early your opponent will simply have more meter than you, and also makes SDs even more devastating.

[@PhysicsGamer]

And as this very event showed... it _is_ possible to learn items. Even if they spawn randomly that doesn't mean you have to use them at random. At this point I'd settle for the smash ball to be consistently available, though...

[@johnstevenson3628]

This video was amazingly entertaining. It gave me insight into all about this story and perfectly encapsulates a point of Brawl history. Great work, can’t wait to see the next video!

[@lordscottish69]

Guitar hero on tour GIGACHAD

[@joshbgosh217]

The aspect ratio change was so badass. Had to replay that part, great video

[@8CanadianBacon9]

Thanks for giving more detail into this event. All I'd ever heard was that some random kid came and won, but that's not what I saw here. Those guys really understood the game and played intelligently. It was clear in the clips shown that he was a good player. He deserved the win 100% and played well. 4:36 says it all. Going for hammer is risky because you cannot recover. Look how CPU wisely didn't pick it up (maybe because Marth has a counter) but rather waited in front of hit and hit Ken when he grabbed it.

[@Ick.-]

Damn good video lad! Big fan of you messing around with the aspect ratio

[@Brawlternative]

I really like experimenting with this channel! I feel like it would be a crime to keep the same format forever. Appreciate the kind words :)

[@4DAKINGBEETLE]

CPU still did join some tournaments for Brawl and Smash 4, but he didn’t compete in much tournaments and retired before Ultimate

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

Brawlternative is ascending to the Asumsaus Smash content level where he posts and I INSTANTLY click

[@meyerpictures]

Great video. The discussion about the Bumper in particular is great; there's so much more to learn about Smash Bros than just the specific area that people who think they're hardcore fans focus on. Of course, it's easier to bully a child and convince yourself that he "only won because of items" than it is to accept the new idea that this person used a new strategy that others were unwilling to acknowledge in order to adapt to the situation and achieve victory. Of course, that's the Smash "community" for you. I'm really glad to see other commenters point out the actual skill on display by CPU.

[@jimsface]

I remember this. Marth isn’t actually that bad with items on because his glidetoss is broken but this was right when brawl came out and people didn’t know about tech like that. Good video

[@Berttheturt314]

I watch these frame 1 and then watch them all again when Coney reacts to them. Generational content ❤️

[@kdot9527]

this is informative af and i thought i knew alot about brawl. thanks for making this.

[@Flying_V]

I appreciate the fact that you used Kenny's Survivor cast photo for this. Fun fact Evo 2008 happened on August 8-10 of 2008. Filming for Survivor Gabon (the season Kenny was on) ended July 31 2008. Meaning Kenny had a week layoff from playing survivor to playing this tournament. The fact he made grands still is an accomplishment itself PS. I really want Kenny to play Survivor again.

[@lundojelding9727]

This is a hilarious story, I had no idea this was a thing. I feel like I've heard vaguely negative things about "Evo 2008" before but never knew why. I love that this is the answer. Poor CPU, I hope he didn't take the bullying too hard.

[@anurbanskier]

I’m glad someone made a video like this about the topic, I feel like no one has ever went into depth about it

[@Dr_R_Dizzle]

The moment the video becomes widescreen with the "The King of Smash" title card is the coolest thing I've ever seen

[@premsinha9415]

9:07 for The Biggest Upset in Competitive Gaming History

[@CaioXG002]

🔥✍️🔥

[@laplap5744]

wake up babe, new Brawlternative video

[@KolMan2000]

I hate how nobody really dogged on Ken for having no knowledge of the ruleset the tournament was gonna be using. Like you can argue “oh a child won because he had items” but also “you’re a top level smash player how did you not study how to use items”

[@superbaas8822]

Especially given Ken had as much of a heads up of the ruleset as anyone else did.

[@joelhagdahl5769]

If you ask me, making it all the way to *2nd* place with only fundamentals and no item knowledge proves that you're still easily a good player

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@superbaas8822 Literally less of a heads-up than his opponent, actually.

[@JT-xn9ei]

@@joelhagdahl5769 Definitely. He also had less time for practice due to being on the reality show Survivor: Gabon, which had only finished filming a week before EVO afaik.

[@ttgb2990]

I feel bad for CPU. No-one deserves that kind of hate for playing a video game. I hope he grew up to be a decent person with a good life despite that

[@MenwithHill]

That kid is incredible. Also completely right, if the rule is items on, you play the rules. It's truly awful the way he was treated when he literally just outplayed his opposition.

[@Whitewingdevil]

The reading of that interview had me laughing my ass off, great video mate

[@WhitehawkePAUNCH]

Not completely related to the video, but it's important to note the context of the Smash community in 2008. A lot of Melee veterans, at the time just before Brawl's release, really just wanted it to be "Melee with online, new characters and some buffs/nerfs". Essentially, they wanted Melee 2.0. Everything else was frivolous to them: single-player, side modes like Masterpieces and new "fun" stages were just "extras". I remember Bowser main Gimpyfish being particularly excited for the game and hyping it up before release (probably because he played the demo releases before launch, and on top of Bowser not feeling as helpless as he was in Melee, the game "didn't feel that much slower" compared to Melee...) Then, the game came out, and Melee veterans immediately complained about it, now that they knew it wasn't what they wanted. Even Gimpyfish admitted the game was just bad to him, and wasn't what he was hoping for. In particular, changing "core" mechanics like air dodges felt outrageous, not just because it made the game less "skilled" to them, but also because it meant their practice in Melee wasn't going to transfer as well as they'd hoped into Brawl. This is why Brawl+, a hack made early on in Brawl's lifecycle to make it more "balanced", died to make way for Project M: pro Melee players didn't want a technically demanding Smash game with Brawl's mechanics. They really, really, just wanted Melee 2.0. And that's what Project M basically was. Smash 4 was similarly derided for not going back on Brawl's changes, called "Brawl 2.0" by some Melee purists. Ultimate brought back Melee Airdodges, kinda, but again, "iTs NoT MelEe!!" was shouted by the purists once more. How does this all relate to the video? Well, while Smash fans were going out of their way to make Brawl as fair as possible by hacking it or refining a fair ruleset, EVO just decided to basically have the game "embarrass itself on stage" with its items and stage selection ruleset, which felt to smash fans like the FGC was specifically trying to get Smash Bros banished from EVO...and that had Brawl been more like Melee, the ruleset given by EVO would have probably innately been more "fair". This is all before the controversy surrounding the tournament's matches themselves. In other words, things were TENSE for the Smash community at the time, and the upset at EVO only further convinced some veterans to stick with or go back to Melee, or to try out that fancy new "Project M" hack that was being worked on... The whole "Wii is for casuals!" mentality that some old-school gaming veterans (who hated the Wiimote and motion controls, and its success with general audiences) were spreading around didn't help either.

[@LasagaMan]

That's kinda funny considering that if Sakurai didn't get involved with making brawl, Iwata would have just did "Melee with online" (and probably as a "New Play Control" version if what Nintendo did with gamecube rereleases on Wii is to be used as a sign) as the man himself said when he did talk about Brawl on his own channel.

[@ehhorve857]

if you know al this, you should give him more details, a episode on this 'hidden hack history would be fanTAStic.

[@JT-xn9ei]

A kid on vacation versus a guy who had only recently finished filming on a reality show. Props for both of them reaching as far as finals, honestly.

[@aslaksockcraft]

People who act like Ken deserved that set legit haven't watched it. He kept getting hit by completely avoidable shit, constantly whiffing his final smashes etc.

[@matthewhardy6386]

Fantastic video as always. Depressing how many people cyberbullied a 15 year old for winning a tournament though - the more things change the more they stay the same...

[@Bog2901]

there is still a much bigger upset in the history of competitive gaming, when qxc all killed incredible miracle in 2011 GSTL season 1 imagine there's a crew battle where socal is entered with mang0, kodorin, lucky, and null and they're playing vs team new england who is made up of kalvar, bonfire10, bekvin, and glock in my toyota and they send out glock first and he solos the entire team that's the level of upset that was

[@Brawlternative]

I've never heard of this, but that sounds insane. Definitely going to look it up, thanks for the recommendation :)

[@Bog2901]

@@Brawlternative it's unfortunately VERY hard to find the vods for this (though they are out there), i had to dig through a few years old forum posts and get linked to a playlist of unlisted(?) videos to find them it is an incredible moment in esports history though, and something that seems to have been forgotten about over time

[@Brawlternative]

@@Bog2901 I'm no stranger to digging, i WILL find these (but thank you for letting me know it's hard to find, that actually makes it a bit easier lol)

[@beam5655]

Eh I don't know if I'd call that a bigger upset. This was literally a random kid, who wasn't even planning on going to Evo, beating the then GOAT of Smash. Like at least that guy was a competitive player, even if he was way below his opponents.

[@eslamvszombies1713]

Hope you cover Evo 2009, one of M2K's biggest wins in his Brawl career

[@carterfyi]

Hi, doc kid melee elitist here. This is fucking phenomenal & has moved you from the sidebar recs to the sub tab, carry on good sir. o7

[@nathanmadox3364]

I love seeing some un filtered 08 adrenalin fueled gamers talk, they're so unfiltered.

[@lucemonfalldownmode]

When you play regularly with Items and Crazy stages On, you don't need to train for a tournament with those rules, because you have already been doing it all the time. CPU and his brother didn't know they were going to attend a World tournament, but when they signed up for EVO, they were already well prepared for the competition.

[@AugustDwight]

What a fascinating story. Thanks for sharing it.

[@Jamm7]

Can't wait to watch the peak content you make

[@plabcentral630]

I feel like a sage. I went “I knew it!” When I saw that you posted this one.

[@jacksonbuller1707]

the open-up from 4:3 to 16:9 or whatever the values are at 2:40 was a really nice touch

[@Hope4NewDay1]

What a wild story line this tournament had. Also, seeing the Lead Combat designer of Killer Instinct entering a Brawl tournament is wildly hilarious.