EVSE Vehicle Simulation

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Tricking an EVSE into thinking it's connected to a car.
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[@mikeselectricstuff]

I've found that EVSEs which don't check the diode are quite common

[@JulianIlett]

Interesting. I've been thinking about the simplest circuit (probably analogue) that would perform the main EVSE functions. Certainly a lot easier without doing the diode check.

[@peterdambier]

I have connected a recorder to later see what is going on with public charging. It was unreadable. Only behind the diode did I get a signal. Maybe the EVSE did not even have negative 12 Volt on the pilot.

[@peter.stimpel]

"Should be safe to touch" are famous last words... just saying ;) Nice one!

[@GrahamDIY]

I’ve touched live mains loads of times. By accident I might add. Tingles and trips the RCD 🤷🏻‍♂️ Don’t @ me, most people who work with electricity have been “electrocuted” and survived.

[@peter.stimpel]

@@GrahamDIY Ok, a more responsible but less funny answer would be "Don't try this at home", I guess

[@nickf3242]

As a young beautiful person, Thank you for your sacrifice.

[@pete3897]

3:35 - yes it is safer without 'full-strength' household mains :) For some reason I feel the need to point out another safety benefit: the signal is not ground-referenced, so you'd have to touch both the phase and neutral at the sam time to get a nasty shock rather than just the phase. It's less likely to occur by accident, although still possible of course.

[@jlucasound]

"Fooling" Electronics is so cool! Thanks, Julian!

[@denisouellet6518]

Great video as usual. Thanks!

[@gavjlewis]

Great can now have a party in Tesco carpark using the free EV chargers! 😂 A 7.2kw charger should be good for a sound system, lighting, a fridge and an electric BBQ.

[@JulianIlett]

That would be cool!

[@yrath5034]

You are looking alright for 60 fella.

[@joeabad5908]

Thank you for sharing this video. This is what I am looking for!! I am working on an EV conversion project which will require to connect to a public charger (when I succeed with the build).

[@amg3434]

Thank you for your help

[@adetuck3174]

Great Video , you saved me alot of hassle

[@jamess1787]

I CANT WAIT to see this in the "she-shed"/ production, spinning up more mining cards!!!! That logic is going to be nutty! :D. 24x7 mining with this beauty.

[@typxxilps]

60 years of experience in 1 video does not sound too bad.

[@fredjones7307]

I always wear a pair of wellies when messing with mains, I then tend to just get explosions..🤗🤗..

[@abcd-by6rw]

Great video! thanks a lot. Question though, does the vehicle performs an operation to switch on the second resistor to initiate charge>?

[@jamess1787]

Julian, How do you plan on using AC mains to power the other cards? Individual power supplies? Or relay'd/contactor controlled DC lines? 😬🤔

[@DanBurgaud]

9:05 this is similar to a situation when the charger is plugged in to the car, then suddenly grid outage, and hours later grid came back again. We naturally want it to resume charging.

[@MooseOnEarth]

Well, imagine the spike that occurs when many cars (like 10 thousands or 100 thousands of cars) start charging immediately and in a perfectly synchronized fashion. "We" may actually *not* want it. For this situation, it would be better to have a random start delay between like 5 and 120 seconds. I guess, some delay variation is introduced by the varying boot up time of the different types of EVSE and different AC onboard chargers (they add delay, as they are not a lamp, but have their own demand profile and initiation sequence). But it's unclear, whether this is enough.

[@TheEmbeddedHobbyist]

It’s amazing how we old farts got to be old farts without elf and safety. We learnt by watching the few that paved the way before us, touching the live wires, flying across the room and smelling like burnt bacon. Who needs books when you had the real thing?

[@lmwlmw4468]

Nice.

[@jlucasound]

I am going to be 60 in the latter part of this year! Happy Birthday to Us!! :-)

[@vourkosdude]

great vid, going to try this for my shucko charger to type two adaptor so i can use public chargers for my scooter. Quick question, right now, the adaptor is not working, and both pins, CP and PP are grounded. Should i leave the PP grounded or should i snip it? Any idea? Thanx!

[@samt4202]

As it does not care about the diode could you test dunking the charging end into a bucket of salt water like mikeselectricstuff did and see if it will turn on the output?

[@Namirred]

When the car says the battery is full it will open the relay removing the second resistor and turning off the power. The EVSE will recognise that and put end on the display.

[@solventtrapdotcom6676]

It's presumed to be a one-way cycle. Kinda sloppy. this assumes that nothing goofy can ever happen in the real world... Ungood design.

[@markeh1971]

Hi, basic is the word! Nice to make an extension from an EVSE post though. As I sit at a free Tesco one. Take care M

[@madhavdivya]

​@@solventtrapdotcom6676 would it be possible for you to take a few minutes to explain the functions of blocks named CC and CP (extreme right in the schematic, at 07:25 of the video) achieve?

[@pooterist]

When you say "all it needs is a diode and two resistors" - I think you demonstrated that all it really needs is a single resistor at approx 800 ohms. Then taking the resistor out of circuit when you want to stop charging. I'd guess other charging adapters are more "fussy" - i.e. more cautious - and require the diode (to assure the charger that there isn't a simple resistive connection such as a puddle of water etc. and to create the two-stage handshake you were expecting. As it is, this one seems more or less a simple relay with an isolated control signal.

[@madhavdivya]

Hi Julian, could you take a couple of minutes to explain what the two blocks named CC and CP do in the schematic at 07:25 in your video? Would love to learn.

[@josuehernandez4716]

Good video, but isn''t control pilot pin 5? your video makes complete sense and I was doing this experiment on my own in a much less neat way prior to seeing your video. I was able to do it without a diode on a cheaper amazon charger I had, but now i am trying to conduct the test on a Grizzl-E charger, and it seems that I need the diode to trick the EVSE for it, so I found your video but now I am really questioning as to why that wiring diagram (which I was also referring to, prior to your video) has CP as pin 4. Just something I noticed.

[@ukvette]

Hi Peter, The output cable to the EV, Can I directly connect them into an enclosure, with a suitable contactor and timer for cheap off-peak electricity, Essentially, when the contactor energises, my EV charges.

[@MrPeterheritage]

Hi, can you let me know what diode you used? thank you

[@lionelpaillard4327]

Thanks Julian for this very interesting Video. In fact I'm searching about how to modulate the max current output of such an EVSE, in order to adjust it to the solar power (that is dynamically available at instant "T") from an OFF the grid home solar plant. Did you find any way to achive this goal yet ? With these kind of small chargers, or either with some other bigger chargers ? I'm now exactly wondering which chargers on the market could allow beeing "piloted" easily (only the max current selection + turn OFF control / no more) in order to allow charging the car with an "adapted" power, that is always depending on the clouds, the time, etc. ... Because we can't take the risk of coming back home at the end of the day, and find an empty HOME power bank. Thanks again Julian for this video which (at least) explains clearly how yo turn ON or OFF (a very good beginning to my graal research). output

[@batymahn]

I have a plug-in hybrid and it can charge it's own battery. I'm very interested to see I could trick the car into thinking that the charge port is the main battery so could access my car as a generator?

[@corentinoger]

Nice one! I wonder if EVSEs check if actual current doesn't exceed the limit set on Control Pilot PWM, or if it just trusts the vehicle.

[@corentinoger]

I got my answer, at least for mine. I tricked my electric motorcycle into drawing 2x the Wallbox current setting, it didn't cut (Wallbox Pulsar Plus).

[@davidposavec7405]

I want to build a Tesl anything adapter. We need to trick Tesla type 2 destination chargers into charging non Tesla vehicles. We could trick the Tesla chargers into supplying power output, so we can connect our portable charger to the power and connect to our non Tesla. In the Tesl anything instructions, it said count 15 seconds before flicking a switch which connects the second resistor. Now I think we’ve cracked it. What do you think ?

[@nizamciftci2469]

My car charger worked in the 2021 MG but did not work in the 2023 Renault Megane E Tech. Does this have anything to do with the CP voltage? What is the voltage rating for CP?

[@eliotmansfield]

cant you set it to 16a then intercept the square wave and dynamically adjust it to suit your solar output? I thought there were ev chargers that tracked solar output already - didn’t dave jones look at once recently - it was british made

[@Richardincancale]

Yes it is the Myenergi Zappi. They also have a unit that can divert surplus solar energy to water heating, or one then the other.

[@snopam]

Hi ... I need to make a tester of 60min with some charger to see if they are good... could u help me? I will need to simulate one car charging in fully current 16A / 220V for 60min.... what I can use like load in out of EV charger? And just one diode with 2 resistence will fully charger at 16A?

[@user-zm7by1xl6z]

Hi Julian , when you are charging the ev at 6A. Are you facing voltage flickering which causes led light to flicker ?

[@madhavdivya]

In my opinion you would not be experiencing voltage flickering as the EVSE is just closing a switch. AC in and AC out.

[@Heisenberg2097]

I am tended to say the electrician that never had a good 220V shock... never has done real work. I had my first electric shock...kkkkk when I was maybe five. One secret is NEVER TOUCH WITH CLAMPING FINGERS because the muscles will contract and it will become critical. So if you feel the need to touch a hot wire ALWAYS JUST ONE FINGER. It is a built in function of the human to easily retreat before stopping your heart.

[@DavidBTB]

If you bypass the square wave generated by the EVSE and inject your own, will the EV pull the max current set by your signal generator? Will the EVSE detect current above it's setpoint and disconnect the relays?

[@JulianIlett]

Good question - that would be worth testing. The EVSE seems pretty dumb, so I'm guessing it would work :)

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Although some EVSEs measure current, this is typically only for display - I;m not aware of any that will stop if the car pulls more than the PWM value says it should - this would only happen of the car's onboard charger was faulty

[@mattiaslind8630]

@@mikeselectricstuff There are EVSEs that do stop if the car pulls too much, they might not be sold in the consumer segment yet or in your country

[@User85306]

Very cool and helpful video, thanks alot. Why could you ignore simulating a contact on the Proximity Pilot? I didn‘t get that.

[@Mladjasmilic]

EVSE does not need PP to work. It is used for a car to know that it has a charger plugged in, even if EVSE is not active. Also, it is used tell the car cable rating (if used public AC charger, so if cable is 16A and charger is 32A, it would draw 16A max not to damage cable) and last is when unpluging, to disconnect first to tell the car to stop charging to stop arcing. As it it simple switch and resistor thing, cable to EVSE is not needed. Some cars use both PP and CP pins for canbus communication, but that is not standard.

[@User85306]

@@Mladjasmilic thanks for your answer, but thats nothing I'didn't know and your answer shows why I was asking. You are contradicting your self. Why could you ignore simulating a contact on the Proximity Pilot? I didn‘t get that. It is not only the EVSE that "has to work", but also the Onboard Charger of the vehicle is "telling" the EVSE the status, via pulling down the amplitude of the CP-Signal. So why should the Onboard-Charger allow the EVSE to charge it (gives status "ready to charge" to the EVSE) if it the current capacity of the cable is not known? That would be dangerous. Or can the Onboard Charger still detect it (like on mode 3 charging) via a resistance between PP and the PE at the connector side of the vehicle (vehicle Type2/Type1 Connector)?

[@User85306]

@@Mladjasmilic and the last part of your answer i don't understand. Maybe you meant PLC?! As far that I am concerned, there is not (yet?) CAN-Communication between vehicle and EVSE. PLC: When DC charging the PLC digital Signal can be "superposed" (with 2 to 28 MHz) on the 1kHz CP signal and the Pulswith goes to approx. 5%, which indicates "Attention, digital signalling is running for communication now, ect.

[@McTroyd]

I vaguely remember the additional switched resistor was there to give the vehicle computer time to boot up so it could monitor charging. The computer could signal the EVSE that it was ready by switching in the lower value resistor. Don't suppose there's necessarily a problem with the EVSE jumping straight to charge mode if the charger is always ready for it. Or am I missing something...?

[@peterdambier]

I built an adapter from EVSE to 3-phase with only one resistor and the diode. It always worked. But you have to cut the holes into slots or you might be unable to unplug. Wiring your own plug dont forget to replace the short pin with a long one PP and PC one of them is a short one leading to bad contacts and refused charging.

[@davidsharp9166]

I've seen something similar to this on the hacksmith channel

[@denisouellet6518]

Yes, I saw this short entertaining video too... but Julian's way is far more nerdy & educative. 👌👍

[@benbaselet2026]

I'm a little surprised you don't have an isolation transformer and a current limited supply (like through a 100W light bulb in series) for faffing about with the mains?

[@MrRayhush]

Where did you get the wiring digram I see on video

[@JulianIlett]

probably the J1772 article on wikipedia

[@rushd45]

If the EVSE does not check for the diode, then it is not J1772 Compliant.

[@LariFariYoutube]

hmmmm...i am curious to know, what the age threshold is, to do dangerous things like fiddling around with mains voltage... xD

[@smijas]

Good info. Thankx, still it baffles me that end-users/consumers need to figure these things out and build solutions for optimal solar adaptation. Why aren't suppliers in the marketplace more eager to get these solutions functional, easy to use and working with general/standard protocols? Same thing for the producers of solar and inverter equipment. Industry standards for autonomous self-supplying homes are still in their infancy stage.

[@frankowalker4662]

If it dose'nt care about the diode, then all you need is the 2 resistors. If you just want it to be on all the time at power up then one 877.5ohm resistor will do. :)

[@traviscalvin431]

Yeah, it doesn't seem to care about the diode or sequencing so why bother with the extra components.

[@denisouellet6518]

He's following the EVSE specifications to achieve a better solution, not just working today for this particular EVSE implementation (which may finally not be fully compliant with the standards).

[@sirmiro2]

Once upon a time red was standard colour for PE here in Sweden. 😐

[@kenmackenzie7338]

What would happen if you supplied it with a 6vdc battery??

[@stevelamperta865]

Ok , 220volts ac . Ive been hit with that many times ,... still here !

[@mazen723]

Julian, I have a question for you: when the power lines are extended for about 60 Meters, and the charging current is 32A , and the wire cross section is 6mm², at these conditions the controller will be fluctuating by about 6v around the PE , and that due to the wire resistance, from the displayed schematic, everything was measured with respect to PE , the power lines go in an out through replays, so power lines drop should not effect the controller. Now is it possible by any means that fluctuating voltage of the controller, can affect the CP signal to create an error that would stop the charging, because I was asked about this problem, where the car chargers for only 15 minutes, before the controller stops charging. Use any technical language, I'm an electronics technician. Thanks

[@JulianIlett]

60 metres is a long distance. You should put the charger hardware nearer the vehicle so that the CP signal quality is maintained.

[@mazen723]

@@JulianIlett The charger or controller and cable are close to the vehicle, the power lines,are extended to 60 Meters. So the quality of the CP should not be affected, I think. From data sheets of cable, there is a drop of 6v for the phase voltage wire, and another 6v for neutral wire , and these voltages are in rms , so there is almost a 9 v peak on each wire and it's inverted twice per each cycle. Looking at the schematic, I don't see any of that affecting the operation of the controller, because it's all referenced to PE . Is it possible that voltage fluctuations affect the power supplies outputs inside the controller ? The car of interest is VW ID4 . Thanks

[@JulianIlett]

Unlikely. Switched-mode power supplies typically work from 90VAC all the way up to 250VAC. But you should have a full +/- 12V CP signal (24 volts swing). Otherwise, earthing problems. It's always earthing problems.

[@gumarogarcia2224]

Thas why is a PWM signal, the part to measure is the duty cycle and not the amplitude. In that case an amplitud drop could cause the charger to go from conected to charging because of the reduced amplitude

[@eliotmansfield]

And Mike in 3 2 1….

[@pepethefrog7193]

Very intresting. Now lets see the other side, the car. Is the minimum really 6A or will it go lower? 6A or 1500W is pretty beefy for a smallish solar with cheapo chinese inverters.

[@jamess1787]

6A is just the negotiated maximum, car can draw less if needed. Take his lightbulb for example. Think speed-limit or Ethernet, the maximum is what is negotiated, not minimum. However, a more finacky "safety oriented" device could stop the output if it's not within 99.9%, but I highly doubt this in consumer equipment.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

The spec says that below I think 10%, this signals that powerline comms should be used for CCS DC charging.

[@pepethefrog7193]

@@mikeselectricstuff Yes, that is exactly what i would like to verify. Cant believe there is no charging solution below 1500W.

[@wrightwells]

And EV will pull below 6 A, I’ve built and openEVSE and regularly see my Tesla only pulling about 2 to 3 A when it has completed charging but is preconditioning.

[@peterdambier]

@@pepethefrog7193 running from a minimum of 100 Volts will do the trick. If you want to charge from a battery and an inverter ...

[@GrahamDIY]

Julian doesn’t your house have a modern CU with single or split RCDs ? I’ve accidentally “electrocuted myself” a number of times over the last 17y of doing up my house and extending it massively. Genuinely wondering if you don’t? And if you do (have modern RCDs) isn’t that safer than that power bank? Or does that have earth leak/residual current protection? Anyway, your point is very well made: if you don’t know what you are doing, leave the mains alone 👍

[@Tekwyzard]

At the risk of being pedantic, you can only 'electrocute' yourself, or indeed anyone else, once. You can however get multiple electric shocks. I too have had a few for various reasons, mostly involving my my own carelessness, oops. Fortunately newer electrical supply standards make cockups more survivable. Even just 30mA at 240Vac for however many mS is not my idea of fun, and I have some extreme ideas of what constitutes fun :-)

[@solventtrapdotcom6676]

I thought it was the car that defined the PWM signal according to what it wants/can handle?

[@Evans_Man]

the evse through the pwm signal, tells the absolut max it can handle. The car then decides how much to pull, that is equal or less from what the evse told it can handle.

[@dorjedriftwood2731]

I really want the opposite to be able to plug a car plug into a charging station and convert it to a standard house plug.

[@jazbell7]

That operation exactly matches what I see on my real electric car and a Bosch "charger" running on 240 volts. My car only charges during the night, but right after plugging in the "charger", the car turns on the line power for few seconds to make sure there is line power available. Then switches to "standby" until 3AM for actual charging.

[@robertpolito6139]

Can you charge A RV this way 120v as the ev car out put?

[@zymurgic]

Most AC public charging worldwide is over 220V, even in North America and Japan. You'd need to make sure that whatever you connect can cope with a wide voltage range like a real EV, including 100V up to 260V single phase AC if you're going travelling and not entirely sure what the output voltage is going to be. In North America, the lower voltage is known as Level 1 charging and takes forever to charge an EV. To do things entirely safely, your pretend EV should perform all the tests that a real one does before drawing current, which includes checking earth impedence. The last thing you want to do is plug your vehicle in, and a badly wired public EV charger makes the vehicle bodywork live because of faults. Oh, and you may find that the terms of service for most public charging networks say they should only be used for charging EVs.

[@christopherkise]

Hmm but what do you want to find out? It is exciting to see the inside, but i wish i knew your goal

[@MichaelBeeny]

Looks like those resistors were calculated values and not values commercially available.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

1K3 is a standard E24 value. 2K74 is 2K7 but with more decimals

[@stevelamperta865]

I mean , are you doing a safety video or ?>>>>>

[@alankingvideo]

"It's as simple as that" well no it's even simpler, 1 resistor, cant believe you have not tried a paperclip!

[@nosafetyswitch9378]

The REAL question would be, how to simulate a CHARGER for the CAR which would allow one to charge anywhere without a charger or EVSE?

[@ncot_tech]

The EVSE shouldn't care if the "car" is connected but doesn't enable that second resistor. That'd be the situation where your car is plugged in but has a timed charging mode that hasn't activated yet. So it will sit in connecting indefinitely waiting for the car. And it should all just cope fine if the "car" is connected and wanting to charge and you plug the mains in, that'd be the situation where you plug the car end in before the mains end. This whole system is both really clever but also so dumb. Now can you work out how CCS works, there seems to be more brains in that.

[@jasonmonk7336]

If I cark it on youtube tis but a scratch 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@fredflintstone1]

you mention all you need is a resistor and diode, yet you proved you don't need the diode that is 2 pence saved on parts🙂

[@andymouse]

Squeak !!!

[@fredflintstone1]

@@andymouse Cheese!!!!!!!!!!

[@jawjuk]

Get out of town are you 60! Solar power's keeping you looking youthful.

[@stevelamperta865]

Why would you tell people that ? Its almost impossible to die from 120 volts ac ! It would smart a bit but death is not certain ! It would be nice if the people who make video's would knock off with the drama really !

[@solventtrapdotcom6676]

No. It's not. Holy crap... Please go away...