Is Living in Portugal Really Cheaper Than Spain?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you very much for watching. One annotation we want to make that we missed in the edit is that the Beckham law tax rate is 24% and not 28%. Which country are you looking at moving to? Portugal or Spain?

Please don't come here. It's enough of obnoxious "expats" fucking everything up.

[@drdanakendall]

My husband and I moved to Porto from the Seattle area in 2022. In 2023, our private health insurance was raised 12% and this year was raised 20%. At this rate of year-over-year increase, in just a few years, Portuguese private insurance will surpass the US in terms of cost. Medicare Part B increases about 2-5% year-over-year and same with Obamacare. Currently, Portuguese private insurance is still very affordable; but given the trajectory, it will not be for long. Our broker has no answers, except that all companies are raising rates to unprecedented highs for vague reasons. Michael from Serenity told us that this may be the new normal moving forward due to systemic changes that are desperately needed but not being addressed in the medical system here in Portugal. Our experience with the medical care here in Portugal is superior to the US, but I want to paint a realistic picture for people considering coming here. (We prefer not to solely use the public system because it’s already overburdened; and as relatively privileged immigrants, we want local people's needs to be prioritized.)

[@sabrinakoehler6209]

Great comparison. I have been researching both Portugal and Spain and this has definitely validated what I have learned. I second the suggestion to do a comparison of Portugal v. France. Thank you! Can't wait to watch the 2nd Pod Cast.

[@teddydavis2339]

Property is Spain is a lot cheaper. Spanish people can be friendly if you speak their language. I lived in both countries. Spain wins, hands down. Honestly; I believe the real reason why most Americans perfer Portugal is because they don't want to learn Portuguese. In Spain, unless you live in Marbella or around Alicante, you must learn Spanish.

[@user4name]

what about in basque? san sebastian ,so no english speakers survive?

[@Kenny-bj2zq]

Your show is getting better and better - The material is so important for anyone trying to make a decision on where to retire in this day and age every dollar or euro is so important.

[@GeraldFigal]

Nice comparison and good info. I’d consider Spain if perhaps if there were a significant cost of living difference and my wife could get over her perception of Spaniards being too emotive. But still, I prefer the vibe (wink to Kalie) of Portugal. As a near-retiree, I would be interested in a Portugal vs. France comparison if only because France has a unique pension income tax agreement with the U.S. Simply put, passive US income (including rental income on US properties) that’s considered analogous to French pension (Social Security, 401k, etc.) is taxed under U.S. system only, which is certainly less expensive than France’s progressive scale.

[@chriskasprzyk6235]

Look at Italy. Move to the right area and you can get a flat income tax rate of 7%.

[@MikeS29]

@14:00 I am under the impression that CERTAIN pension income in Spain is not subject to taxation, namely state and municipal pensions, which is different that private pensions and 401ks. The amount of your pension does count in establishing your total income bracket, however, but not sure if I have that correct. Both my husband and I are drawing pensions from State of Washington PERS, and will be tax resident in Spain (Andalucia) beginning 2025.

[@pauljiltsov9950]

Beckham law is at 24%, not 28%. But the big advantage of beckham law is that you dont report foreign income. So a person who is receiving rental income or dividend income from outside of spain, doesnt even report it.

[@erickarnell]

Laws regarding inheritance and trusts are very different in the US and European countries.

[@johnnybabel5101]

A couple of points that are worth noting is that the transfer tax in Spain is on average quite a bit higher than the (IMT) "transfer tax" in Portugal. In addition, many larger areas in Spain have high yearly taxes associated with the city where you own your property as well as the region or county. For example my wife and I bought a place in Portugal for about 50k more than a property my friend ahd I had bought together in Spain and we paid about 7k more on the cheaper property in Spain in regards to the taxes associated with the purchase including the transfer tax.

[@christiann.521]

Compared to Portugal, if you want to obtain Spanish citizenship, you have to renounce your American citizenship . Portuguese law does not require you to renounce your current citizenship.

[@dianahahnacuna1227]

You can have both citizenships Spanish and America it is just that either country does nor recognize the other country’s citizenship. For the USA you are American and for Spain you are Spanish. You will have two passports.

[@OnMyWayVirtualCityTours]

Plenty of people are de facto dual citizens in the US and Spain; no one gives up their US citizenship unless they want to.

[@pauljiltsov9950]

That's incorrect, you can have two citizenships, Spanish and american. Why do you think that you have to renounce us to get a Spanish one ?

[@lenoxlenox9447]

Not really

[@terrisokolow7796]

Great info, Josh! So very helpful to many!

[@TheSimArchitect]

You always release great content! Any chance you might do a video (or a few) for people who don't have US Citizenship and want to do the opposite, move there as a retiree, remote worker, self employed etc? Thanks for sharing more information with us, nonetheless. Have a lovely Mother's Day weekend!

[@From_Heller]

Very informative! Though I wanted to point out that the Beckham Law's cap is 24%, not 28%. And regarding the lenght, it used to be 5 years and there were rumors that it would be extended to 10 years, but in the end I got it for 6 years when I applied in the middle of 2023, so not sure how it would be if you were to apply today.

[@UbuTube]

The zero inheritance tax in Portugal applies to property transfers between grandparents, parents, children, grandchildren. You erroneously mention that it also applies to siblings, which is not true.

[@dahaus6802]

Cars are more expensive, tolls, gas, in Portugal. Property tax on purchase is higher in Spain 🇪🇸

[@mkmk54248]

I remember seeing this guy when he appeared on RTP. I'm still not sure what his actual credentials are, but he lost me when he used Condé Nast as a reference. He seems to be really good at finding opportunities for self-promotion, though.

[@mattedwards8022]

One question I've always had about when I watch financial expat videos. When these videos talk about living "here" for a certain amount, that's always a post tax amount, correct? So if I can live in Portugal for about $2500/mo, I actually need to have an income of ~$5000/mo?

[@user4name]

what about porto vs san sebastian , is porto more expensive ?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

According to Numbeo's data, Porto is cheaper. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Spain&country2=Portugal&city1=San+Sebastian&city2=Porto&tracking=getDispatchComparison San Sebastian has better purchasing power. - Josh & Kalie

[@user4name]

@@ExpatsEverywhere thanks for the link, porto looks cheaper for foods but for rent it looks similar and power of purhace is half in porto indeed porto is about twice expensive than san sebastian accorindg to numbeo

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

@@user4name You're welcome. Yes, purchasing power would be pegged to local wages. If you're not making local wages and relying on the local economy, then interpret that data differently. - Josh

[@iLibertyWomanWorthy]

What is NHR?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

A special tax program that has been redone as of 2024. It really doesn't apply to most of the people moving here now. - Josh & Kalie

[@iLibertyWomanWorthy]

@@ExpatsEverywhere thank you your reply

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

@@iLibertyWomanWorthy You're welcome.

[@macaccount4315]

Wealth tax in Spain kills the comparison. Very important for Americans

[@MikeS29]

There is no wealth tax in certain autonomous communities, including Andalucia.

[@macaccount4315]

@@MikeS29 legislation proposed just the year aims to change that. I totally know that Madrid doesn’t have it (yet). But it’s one of those things for retirees who are selling their US homes and have retirements accounts.

[@MikeS29]

@@macaccount4315- the proposal is for a national “solidarity tax” that would only affect holdings over something like €3Million, so that wouldn’t apply to most Americans expatriating to Spain, including myself.

[@macaccount4315]

@@MikeS29 agree. But it will apply to the Golden Visa crowd which is a lot of the retired expat community. Moreover it’s the ever changing landscape of the unknown that makes planning difficult (like the expiration of the NHR in PT). I’m still happy to be an expat but as a CPA I really think about avoiding the tax man when possible 😀

[@paulogarciadesousa]

Minuses for Spain: 1. Safety/social unrest; 2. Climate (more prone to extremes); 3. Low-grade xenophobia (cf. 1.); 4. Somewhat lower exposure to English-spoken media. Everything else is, IMO, a plus or fairly identical to Portugal.

[@MikeS29]

What?

[@jimbeam4736]

I agree, the "low-grade xenophobia" and their refusal to speak english are two main factors I don´t like about Spain.

[@MikeS29]

@@jimbeam4736- refusal to speak English….in Spain! The nerve! 😂 I have never had even the slightest problem understanding and being understood, and my Spanish isn’t very good (yet), but I make an effort and so do the Spaniards. If you EXPECT them to speak English and you don’t even try to speak to them in their native language, then I couldn’t blame them if they got irritated with you.

[@giselaafonso]

It isn't.

[@anebb42ify]

These are all idiot taxes. Nobody knows where you live unless you tell them.

[@MikeS29]

Evading taxes is a crime.

[@anebb42ify]

@@MikeS29 legality isn’t morality statist. Second, in the Schengen zone, the constituent countries don’t know which one you are in. Pick a low tax one and live in the other. It’s a borderfree zone without checks . Nordic people lives in Spain and Portugal year round while maintaining residency officially in Scandinavia.

[@MikeS29]

@@anebb42ify- I see, you love the services but don’t like to pay for them. Someone else will foot the bill. You are mighty mighty special, aren’t ya?

[@anebb42ify]

@@MikeS29 nice try. 1. What services? 2. I don’t use any public services 3. The universal services are bad value. Means test them or privatize them instead of bitching about funding. 4. Not my fault the EU isn’t the United States of Europe and is therefore extremely susceptible to tax planning. 5. Build a better mousetrap.

[@MikeS29]

@@anebb42ify- you don’t use the roads? You don’t use the parks? You don't use the stormwater infrastructure? You don’t use the rail network? You don’t use the fire department (yet)? You are deluded. Listen, you've lost the argument. You won't admit it, because you are too deep in your idealogical fantasy. But I've already given you more time than I usually waste on Fascists, so go away. Bye, troll.

[@javierperez2591]

No vengais más..please