Expensive Cards Worth Buying | Commander Clash Podcast #53

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[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

Get our limited edition playmat before it's gone forever on July 31st: mtggoldfishmerch.com/products/limited-edition-commander-clash-playmat-ebb-and-flow

[@alexlorimer8371]

When will the playmats be shipped out?

[@Shabzhader]

...Is crim's signature on the playmat intentionally a Nicol Bolas symbol?

[@Death_by_Tech]

another thing that makes toxic deluge good is that you are often able to take advantage of making X something beneficial to you. The downside is when there is a 9/9 on the battle field in late game it is a dead card basically

[@jamespatterson5644]

I went to the site to order and there is only one purchase option. Is that for the regular, the stitched, the signatures? There is nothing to indicate which variant I'm ordering.

[@ArthurDemacqPontoglio]

Please just play Metallica next time someone makes Fade Away work

[@kurowasanabe]

I hope Richard can find it in his heart to rehire Richard after he got fired by Richard some day.

[@Crunchatize_Me_Senpai]

I don’t know man, Richard really had it coming after the way he treated Richard.

[@Reaper8989]

I mean, I felt a disturbance in The Firce, and I am not the Richard you are looking for.

[@nathanmcduck2999]

He had a child with Richard's wife. I mean how much more do you need to fire somebody?

[@titanaddict25]

​@@nathanmcduck2999

[@Death_by_Tech]

my best answer to this question is fetchlands. it’s honestly like playing a different game when you basically never worry about mana fixing.

[@ChadZeluff]

“We’ll link the podcast on MDFC’s.” Narrator: “they did not, in fact, link the podcasts on MDFC’s.”

[@markdziamski4859]

I tell every new player the same thing. Best thing to invest in is a good mana base. The value will always be there

[@kingnaruto999]

Same. Good cards come and go but lands are forever

[@GoDzJtFr]

It's sad but understandable to see Richard take a step back. I loved hearing his thoughts and reasoning behind commander. That being said, I am excited to have Phil is a full time member of the podcast as well

[@nheimi99]

Printer go brrrrr :)

[@Sinistra359]

We need a full-art lands tier list!

[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

That's come up before but we can't do a visual art tier list on an audio podcast.

[@DylanHunter64]

@@MTGGoldfishCommander I'm actually curious, what's the ratio of audio listeners to KZbin watchers? It's probably harder to calculate because of various podcast services.

[@Sinistra359]

@@MTGGoldfishCommander that's fair, how about a secret lair tier list? Lol

[@EliyaSelhub]

Problem there is they keep printing increasingly beautiful full-art lands. Dominaria and Unfinity are both stunning, Kamigawa and Capenna were no slouches either.

[@Sinistra359]

@@EliyaSelhub true but you can say that about any tier list because they'll eventually print better board wipes, draw, ramp etc.

[@VRanger100]

When it comes down to it, the price of a card is based on what you want from Commander. I've been a long advocate that players should avoid proxying as much as possible since it adds a bit to the deck building process when you build with what you have. From playing with groups over the years, I've come to accept proxies more and more since there's always a reason to proxy whether it be alters or testing. It's especially relevant in the current age of Magic where there's so much product and official alternate art promos that I've become numb to it. When webcam Magic became a thing during the pandemic, I've turned to streaming Mox Table to make the board easily visible but it also reduced my desire to own physical cards. Now I bought into cEDH 5-6 years ago now and I own a good chunk of Reserve List staples so of course I was a bit biased towards proxies for a while, but nowadays I've come to accept that with the increase of new players, I just want them to enjoy the game first and worry about "investing" later down the line.

[@tmdblya]

What’s Mox Table? I literally get zero results when I googled it.

[@VRanger100]

@@tmdblya Oh my bad, I meant to type Moxfield. It's another deck building site but it features a playtest function. It basically allows you to goldfish any deck. It's all on the web browser so there's no need to download any additional software.

[@tmdblya]

@@VRanger100 ah, okay. Thought it was some new thing for playing online! I recently switched from Archidekt to Moxfield for my deck building. Love the ability to give cards persistent tags that carry over from deck to deck.

[@froggystrap1232]

Love proxying powerful cards as a new player because most of the time you don't understand the power until you play it yourself. After one game you take it out and have binders full of staples but at least you didn't wait 1 year of saving for hating how the card plays.

[@coreysierchio4650]

"Ulamog, the Ceasless Hunger." I picked this card up for ~$20 back in the day. (It's currenly ~$60) As a player who really enjoys the Combat step, it fits into any deck I put together. *Thanks for the Content* !

[@Prometheous88]

Good, another Eldrazi lover. I do the same thing with the Ugin, the Spirit Dragon I pulled out of my first pack ever. I also played standard through the second Invasion, so acquired the second set of Eldrazi Titans through store play. Now Rakdos, Lord of Riots leads their charge.

[@kylewhiteman]

Alternate title: Expensive Cards Worth Proxying

[@Mexymack]

I'm not against proxies but if your wanting to play at the power level these cards shine than you need to be willing to buy them at some point. Proxying for testing is great and smart. Proxying because your being cheap is almost disrespectful to the other players who put time and yes...money into their deck. At some point you have to pay to play. If you cannot afford HIGH POWER edh then don't play it.

[@scipioninja]

​@@Mexymackcounterpoint: no.

[@simplyyunak3189]

It is never disrepectful to anyone to proxy cards and it never will be. Its not your fault that some cards cost more than a week worth of groceries

[@andymaritanu7420]

@@Mexymacknah this is always a dumb take, who even cares. Do you get offended because someone printed a $50 card and avoided the scam that is mtg reselling and just printed it for $1?

[@farlischere]

I feel like spectral deluge keeps getting missed in blue boardwipes. 6 mana but has foretell and is an engulf the shore that doesnt hit your own board

[@gibbysg8143]

As someone who doesn’t like cyclonic rift this feels like a much more balanced version!

[@bobdylanlovr69]

Thanking you for letting me know this exists

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

The benefit of a 1 for 1 is ONLY in mana efficiency. You set them back more than you were set back by playing that removal spell (in this case a counter). Mana drain not only makes the opponent go down by the mana of their spell, you go up by that amount of mana as well. It is by far the most powerful counterspell ever printed, and 2nd place isn't even close.

[@Doomwarden13]

For commander, for most decks, I value vamp over demonic for the efficiency specifically. You make the decisions at the last possible moment and cast your spell with all your mana (which informs what you tutor for). Most importantly, for less invested players, these are just better than all the cards you would run (outside of the pieces you are actively tutoring for, at that momment). I totally think that tutors are boring and often don't include them, and certainly not for supply/$ reasons (I have many of both). However, for a newer/less invested player these cards simply elevate your power level.

[@ZSAITOSEI]

There's a huge lesson with tutor cards that even a long time player like me can stumble into. We get so used to casting them to dig for exactly the card that gets you out of whatever situation you're in and most often our win conditions. And then those games where if we had just one more land drop but have drawn bunk for turns, do not be ashamed to use your D Tutor for a dual land 😁 And if you are in any deck running blue and board wipes, and are sick of wasting them to a Teferi's Protection, jam a copy of Time and Tide in there, it'll hose them. 😂

[@thomasgamperfeitoza7319]

nice to see Phil on the podcast!

[@Death_by_Tech]

Crim is the only one that really understands the power of meathook since he plays standard. there’s special feeling when you realize you can play it on zero and win the game

[@kavehfarrokhi5206]

Explain

[@holdyourfire74]

My favorite part about it is that it sticks around. So it's a board wipe with free value as long as it's on the board.

[@michaelcollins4534]

Hope to see all five of each of you guys at once. Each of you had a valid outlook on cards and play styles so I don't think anyone would complain about it

[@hauntedmoose411]

Tomer's outlook gets less valid every time he mentions Fade Away or Flood Gate

[@michaelcollins4534]

@@hauntedmoose411 unless....

[@itsallenwow]

I think the thing with Meathook Massacre in Commander is that enchantment staying on the battlefield is a little undervalued. We think of it as a wrath effect. Which it is, but used solely as that it comes out pretty overpriced mana for power value. But having the life loss and life gain enchantment sit on the battlefield is something that is rarely talked about. Where now opponents are less likely to attack you, and passively you’re gaining and damaging others completely for free.

[@jibb8545]

The fact that it gets around indestructible isn't too bad either.

[@Kryptnyt]

Having to kill a Meathook with a removal spell so that you don't die is a feelsbad moment!

[@RyanEglitis]

That's the problem though - I want it in play for the ability, but it still has to wipe the board, and it's not great at that without being super late game. It just doesn't deal with big green stuff efficiently enough.

[@spudster8887]

Granted, the sticking around part of it is really only relevant in an aristocrats deck, and in that case its 100% a staple. If you aren't aristocrats the cards mediocre to just bad

[@royalfishness1]

All the people saying not to buy it since its $$ was obviously going to crash seemed to have forgotten Blood Artist, and most other aristocrat payoffs being good money, despite being uncommon. This as a Mythic was ALWAYS going to be big $$$$$

[@gabzsy4924]

Expensive cards worth buying: none, just proxy.

[@rtwoxd1355]

Based

[@scipioninja]

100%

[@weelchairdrivby2951]

Go for it fam

[@jamesmoore1317]

I agree with Tomer, fetches and shocks are not necessary. Play duals if you got em, of course, but all my 3+ color decks play just fine with conditional untapped lands.

[@noelkoster1994]

Really happy that phil is there now, but I hoped it would give a bit more insight in the difference with the European market

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

I'd like to see Crim rotated out for Richard to make it a full casual and fun-focused podcast group

[@BigDiff7]

A highly underrated Black board wipe is Nightmare Unmaking. Yes, it is 5 mana but it exiles all creatures (the modal condition has never mattered in games that I've played it).

[@jeremymajors8982]

The card Sea Gate Restoration is the one I am most interested in. On the surface, this seems good. It is a big, splashy spell, that seems fun to play. After all, you draw a lot of cards. But, that being said, the cost (mana value) is very high for this effect. And, there are a few downsides. First, you have to already have a lot of cards in your hand for this to apply. If you don't, it is a 7 mana draw 3 or less spell (example), which is in fact TERRIBLE. I think for the effect, it is great. But, for the price, not so great. You would need to play this in a deck with LOTS of ramp, or LOTS of card draw to get the value, or BOTH. Don't get me wrong, this is a very cool spell, and I would love to have it, but it really does not have the blowout potential that other cards do. The upside, is that only YOU are drawing (unless an opponent can copy it). It is not a wheel effect. But, consider that Windfall is only 3 mana - that is really good. Even if other players get to draw, you'll still have mana to play another spell, whereas Sea Gate is really only good late game. So, it seems to be good in low-mid powered commander decks, but high powered I feel it isn't good. Meathook Massacre is REALLY good, but again situational. Not sure if $50 is worth it. I play it in my Muldrotha deck, so if it gets destroyed or I sacrifice it, I can replay it for value. One comment in this video is that Meathook is $30 ABSOLUTELY worth it, but for $50 you can get so much better cards. Also, consider that card will rotate out, AND Midnight Hunt COLLECTOR Boxes are less than $150 on Amazon -- yeah this card is coming down sooner than later. In fact, I am thinking to sell mine, and just rebuy it when the price comes back down. Finally, MANA DRAIN. Yes, it is the BEST counter spell in the format. This is BECAUSE you get mana when you play it. Late game, it is bonkers when people play high CMC stuff, or try to recast their commander with 2-4 cmc tax on it. Imagine countering Morohpon, which I did after a guy ramped and tried to cast it turn 4 in a recent game. They got blown out, meanwhile, I got 7 extra mana on turn 5. Needless to say I won that commander game. If you play mono-blue it is simply amazing, because mono blue lacks for ramp. Yes, Fierce Guardianship is very close to being an equal, but it does not ramp and costs nearly $100 bucks. Give me TWO mana drain for the same price and I am big threat to any player who tries to gamble thinking I don't have counter magic. If they simply KNOW I have Mana Drain in my deck, they are respecting the blue player with control magic. Thanks for the video guys! Like and subscribe if you support.

[@tylord96]

The thing about sea gate is that it’s attached to a land that can come in untapped. If this wasn’t attached to a land, it wouldn’t see play. It’s good because it doesn’t take up a non land slot in your deck. It might be played as a land 9/10 times which is fine but the times you actually go get cast it make it worth it

[@pierredupont1096]

Things I loved: Crim's joy at Magic Tomer's Dad-vibe Brewer's Kitchen being low-key voice of reason Seth being casual as always. Not doing be neg I just don't play a lot of these cards for power level reasons, but yeah, get them.

[@NoNo-qt4ov]

You should rename this to "cards worth proxying" 😂

[@zztzgza]

I think the only expensive cards worth buying are shock lands, dual lands, fetch lands and the triomes.

[@lilymelodie7128]

Commander is about big powerfull effects to me. I would recommand things like Fiery Emancipation, Anointed Procession, Mind's Dilation, Lurking Predators, Rise of the Dark Realms, etc over efficient options that you were mostly recommanding.

[@xMr.Agenda]

Fade away is an super underrated card because it’s not just to get rid of stuff but it can make sure your opponents tap out their mana. For 3 mana you can either wipe the board or have your opponents tap out their mana

[@DylanHunter64]

I've tried Fade Away and taken it out because I've just found it not very effective because it's basically a punisher card. When I'm digging for a wrath, it's because I need the creatures gone. If I'm facing lethal, and I spend my turn making them tap or sacrifice some useless lands or treasures, it hasn't done the job at all.

[@stfinalwrath]

I have 3 damnation, 2 toxic deluge and a decree of pain. I'd still run meathook. It's versatility is it's selling point. That's why it's 50$. If you have the money to spend on a meathook and want it, it's worth picking up. But I would also recommend to get the others first and get meathook only if you need it.

[@alanevans5353]

You don't need fetchlands for 5 color decks for sure, I built Ramos and Shrines and both of those decks run great without even a single fetch land. I'll admit Shrines is very heavy Green and White but the shrines themselves are an even split, and between the commander and a couple other cards in the deck want WUBRG and the deck doesn't really have any problems with producing the colors it needs when it needs them. Ramos is designed to produce WUBRG as many times as possible even without the commander on the field, but it functions on a lot of pain lands and Talismans. Both of those (as well as signets and other untapped dual lands) are the secret to a strong mana base for any color combo, and if you're in green you've got tons of budget mana options. Other lands that are good are the Lair lands, they bounce another land when they ETB but it it can be a tapped land that you bounce so you don't go down a mana that turn and that makes them not hurt, but they're all under a dollar in price.

[@alanevans5353]

TLDR: cheap dual lands, Lair Lannds, Signets, and Talismans.

[@EliyaSelhub]

If you're going wide with creatures and playing green, Growing Rites of Itlimoc.

[@T-Sharp]

If you play mana short, fade away works 100% of the time 40% of the time. If they tapped their artifacts before, of course.

[@natashiastubblefield2130]

For budget Toxic Deluge in mono black decks I usually run Mutilate

[@memonk100]

A great alternative for Toxic Deluge in mono black or if you have Urborg is Mutilate and its like 1$.

[@AgonalRhythm]

Yeah I was stunned they didn't mention it. I feel like people tunnel vision on toxic deluge but there are alternatives both for budget and archetype. I also have run life's finale for reanimate targets, but I would put mutilate in over even a damnation in any deck that is mono-black or can get Urborg easily. Dead of Winter (2B: -1/-1 to non-snow creatures per snow permanent you control) can also do the job in any snow deck or mono-black deck that runs snow-covered swamps.

[@marsrocks247]

Crim in MJ thriller cosplay, dancing around tossing removal to the Billy Jean beat. Moonwalks up to Gavin. Music drops out. Blood curdling scream: "DOCKSIDE?!!?!?!?" Slaps Gavin with white gloved hand, so hard he is thrown back in time before Dockside was printed. Gavin sprints to the printers and screams "I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE, THIS MUST BE STOPPED!" --- MY DREAM DOCKSIDE BAN ANNOUNCEMENT.

[@zadocr675]

I might be with Tomer on Fade Away. The obvious best time to use it is when your opponents are tapped out so they can't save their stuff without sacrificing. Even if opponents have open mana, you can play Fade Away and opponents might pay into it, giving you more room to play out your gameplan without fear of removal or counters. Even if they don't pay mana, they might sac creatures or permanents so you still get some value

[@zadocr675]

OBVIOUSLY it's not near as good as Cyclonic Rift or Toxic Deluge, but still good

[@Kryptnyt]

I don't think it's a totally bad card and it has applications. It just does not do what you want it to do a lot of the time; it's a "value card" moreso than a "board wipe."

[@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS]

P,lay fade away with magus of the tabernacle

[@swirlingtoilets]

The fact that your opponents have a choice of what permanent to sacrifice, meaning they can save their most important creatures by sacrificing enchantments, mana rocks, lands, etc, is a HUGE knock against it. It's a good value card for sure, but I think it will rarely be a genuine board wipe

[@gxantor]

I feel like Tomer must have been reading Fade Away as sacrifice 'that' permanent and not a permanent XD

[@Savagely1]

This doesn't seem to be 'Expensive cards worth buying' it seems to be 'The best cards that are expensive' which is not the same thing.

[@GoDzJtFr]

My thoughts on Mana Drain vs Fierce Guardianship, I do fully agree that it is a largely better investment than Fierce. At the end of the day Fierce does have more budget replacements. Just this year we got An Offer You Can't Refuse, and while 0 mana is better than 1 mana, 1 mana counters still got the job done for protection. Mana Drain though is ramp and there's just not many options for blue based ramp, and especially none that can also stop an opponent at the same time

[@bowietsang920]

Fierce does have a hoop to jump through and thus can be played around. I totally agree with you and actually think an offer you cannot refuse is surprisingly close in power level

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

River's Rebuke being a worse Cyclonic Rift for 1 less mana and still being a bomb says a lot about Cyclonic Rift.

[@Kajiyaification]

phil in the beginning: now i cant listen BECAUSE IAM THE PODCAST

[@gemyniraptor8626]

1. Love seeing more of Phil 2. Toxicde-blue-ge

[@sethchapman1425]

I find Planeswalkers just take the heat off of you in Commander. So if you can fit go ahead.

[@michaelstevens5712]

I've got to stump for Mana Drain. I actually don't think you should ascribe too much weight to it's use as a counterspell (although that's a *huge* upside). It's better to think of it as Blue's s-rank ramp spell; it's a ritual that scales with your opponents development level in a color that doesn't really ramp like that. You don't need to be too precious about what you're countering or whether your deck wants counters because the main effect is giving you a big mana turn.

[@r0m988]

I don't even play Commander format. Ever. I just like listening to you guys argue about Magic cards.

[@AgonalRhythm]

On the top of lesser-played black board wipes, you overlooked Mutilate and Dead of Winter. 2BB, creatures get -1/-1 for each swamp you control. This is only one mana more than Toxic Deluge and the swamp requirement to effectively wipe is either trivial in mono-black, or easily fixed with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Less universally easy to use, but still something I'd run over toxic deluge in momo-black is Dead of Winter (assuming you have snow-covered swamps) which is 2B: -1/-1 to non-snow creatures per snow permanent you control for less than $0.50. Spend that money you saved on those nice snow-covered swamps ;)

[@kingnaruto999]

Dead of winter is criminally underrated

[@howtobeahumanthetutorialpa2105]

I think the only point that was missed on meathook is that it can also be targeted. It’s best in decks with bigger creatures so you can wipe your opponents and keep your own creatures.

[@matthewlaborde1080]

Midnight hunt is secretly a pretty decent set. Great lands, fun sneaky creatures, and cheap to grab boxes right now.

[@doompulse4551]

{1R} Sorcery: create a treasure token for each artifact and enchantment your opponents control. I feel like this example is a card they would never print because it is too strong and not red, yet it is basically dockside without the body, so no blink / flicker or unearth / reanimate shenanigans. That is very telling about just how over powered Dockside Extortionist really is.

[@stuartmatthews91]

Aww I felt the internet collectively face palm when tomer tried to sell fade away..

[@sebvieira]

I've found that River's Rebuke is a valid replacement for Cyclonic Rift. Yes, it's at sorcery speed, but I rarely have 7 mana open in my opponents turn anyway, so usually I play Rift 'whenever I could play a sorcery'. And it's a super cheap (less than a dollar), so I can buy a couple. Bonus: it's 6 mana instead of 7. Disclaimer: most Commander games I play is 1vs1.

[@potatobanana197]

Meathoock massacre can randomly be a wincon in a sac deck even turns after cleaning up the board.

[@mightyone3737]

Fade Away is an interesting, even intriguing card, but I assure you it is not Toxic Deluge or Cyclonic Rift. It's not even a wipe, it will always miss your opponent's best stuff, which they will use to punish you for having irritated them. The next best Blue board wipe is a tough call, there really *isn't* a 'next' wipe, the subsequent ones are all hilarious bad in comparison, such that all Blue decks should run Cyclonic Rift, even if it's not 'that good', it's still good enough. I'm not saying Fade Away is completely unable to 'get' someone, it just very rarely will and very often be dead. Demonic Tutor is a nuts card, but it's too good for lower power metas, it's cheap, right into hand and isn't particular about what it fetches, it has no significant drawbacks. I feel like Teferi's Protection is a good card in Casual and probably High Power, but in cEDH it's not run much afaik, maybe mono-White because some win cons will be stalled, but in cEDH you would usually prefer something like Angel's Grace to prevent you from losing outright, you care less about everything else. Toxic Deluge is a really sweet card in a meta where people don't run especially tall creatures or counters (or you're in Dimir and can protect it). If your own deck has small booty creatures, the card is terrible though and you should just stick with Damnation. I have 4 Damnations and no Toxic Deluges atm, Damnation is a solid card I find, but there are decks where you'd love Toxic Deluge. I feel like Golgari, Dimir or Sultai are good homes for Toxic Deluge. Blood on the Snow is a reasonable card, but I still like Necromantic Selection, it lets me steal the best thing, which matters if your deck is full of... questionable card choices. I don't want to reanimate Uncle Istvan if I could pay 1 more mana and reanimate the best creature just wiped (that isn't a token I guess). The ability to wipe PWs is also nice though, that's a big upside for a Black wipe to have. Oko is not a problem in Commander, he dies too easily, but on the upside he's literally 3 mana Simic artifact/creature removal, which kicks ass maybe, but if you don't have a ton of creatures to protect him makes him way less viable in Commander. IMHO Oko wasn't as bad in Legacy as people thought, but I think my deck's best matchups were Delver and Oko/Uro, and I just died right away to fast combo since Pox can't interact with non-creature combos. Oko couldn't count on having any creatures out to protect him, so using his ability to turn one of my beefy beaters into a 3/3 meant he'd still deal with a 3/3 and possible manland, which meant Oko was toast very quickly. Fetch lands are really, really good. I think it's quite justifiable to proxy them, because they are painfully expensive, I'm considering doing so to try and retool my cEDH deck. I think $15 seems in range where it's not blatantly extortionate, but that's the low end price. I feel like actual game pieces should be rare and cost more, but the basic resource cards like duals and fetches, things that do nothing but make mana in a generic way (or finds lands that do that) should be affordable and be printed at lower rarity. Key point btw, any Fetch that can find an Island can find your Mystic Sanctuary, which can easily be a combo piece. Dockside Extortionist is not a card that should have been printed, and because it desperately needed to be banned (or reprinted), they chose to upshift the rarity and reprint it in a low print run 'premium' set. Corporate ghouls be corporate ghoulin', feasting on the corpses of starved consumers who ran out of food money when they got addicted to cracking Double Masters VIP boosters. Just banning the card was the right choice, but it's a super-chase card (one that they could have just banned and printed a new version, Orcish Extorionist, which will be more mana and the treasure enter tapped or something). Dockside was a mistake, using it to fleece idiots is crooked. Mana Drain is a 'Feel Terrible' card that you probably should skip in anything Casual, but I feel like you should be ready for annoying stuff like that in High Power. By cEDH it's too clunky to hold up UU for one counter, you want to hold up two spells for U and U each. People don't love counter magic in general, and 'literally better Counterspell' is exactly the kind of card a lot of people don't want to deal with. As a matter of practice, I go out of my way to avoid cards over a certain price range, with limited exceptions. Cards over $10 need to be winning me the game pretty near, or be utterly necessary for some reason, so my cEDH deck has good tutors but my Casual decks don't. I bought a few Drops, so I've got some random good cards that just show up in decks that are effectively expensive, but most of them were a bit cheaper than buying the cards, even after the cards dipped when the Drops shipped. Smothering Tithe is not as good if your deck doesn't have a way to draw lots of cards yourself, but it's a lot of ramp for 4 mana. I wanted the Shock from the Brawl deck, so I bought a few of the Alela ones, so I've got some Smothering Tithes to work with. In 1v1 it's worth noting you can Stasis someone and keep advancing your board state, this can pay the U each turn as your opponent sobs. You can also do it in EDH, but then there are 3 people who want to kill you slowly that can team up, so it's a better combo in 1v1. I could be crazy, but I feel like Black Market Connections is absurd value, it's one of the best cards ever printed as a 3 drop, it can be better than a Rhystic Study if you've got lots of life, better than a Smothering Tithe, and better than a Bitterblossom, since it's all of them in a way, and only YOU get asked if YOU want to pay, pretty slick! How can people even complain at that point?

[@brianlinden3042]

Don't get me wrong, Black Market Connections is an outstanding card, and I'll certainly give you Bitterblossom, but saying it's better than Rhystic Study or Smothering Tithe is seriously pushing it. It'll only ever draw you one card and make you one treasure per turn cycle. The others will either give you a metric fuckton, set your opponents massively behind, or both.

[@mightyone3737]

@@brianlinden3042 It's better than Rhystic or Smothering specifically because it's *also* better than Bitterblossom in most situation. You'll draw more with Rhystic, but if you build right drawing an extra 1 per turn will feel pretty good, it's not like you don't run 10 other card draw effects, and vs Smothering yeah you're not storing up mana, but Smothering Tithe is an absurdly swingy card because it does nothing at all if you don't have a great out for mana, much list Rhystic isn't spectacular if you're short of mana (though you'll hit land drops I admit). The key to Connections is that it does a bunch of suspiciously small things that a surprising number of decks can exploit pretty well. If it helps, I agree that in some games you'll prefer Rhystic or Smothering, but I suspect in most games you'd be just ducky with Connections. Nobody ever pays for Smothering unless they've already lost, but Rhystic at least has more situations where it's probably better because a lot of people still won't pay for it.

[@MrZachensation]

I think the key piece of criteria of a card being worth is to ask if the card's effect is available elsewhere. Meathook massacre is convenient because it combines 2 effects in 1, but both effects are achievable elsewhere , so $50 is too steep w/o a competitive mindset

[@faerie7dragon]

New guy likes Oko, what a monster. He and Crim are gonna get along just fine!

[@MrBurrito]

Phil missed the best part about Sea Gate Restoration. It can be pitched to Force.

[@efnfen]

Crim woke up at the crack of noon to be here

[@Tarranga]

Not that I don’t love the whole crew but I’m really bummed that Richard won’t be on the podcast as well.

[@bladetb3934]

Best boardwipes goes toxic deluge, cyclonic rift, farewell, Damn, and then maybe meathook. You really shouldn't view it as a boardwipe since it costs so much mana to maybe wipe the board when there are cheaper and more guaranteed ways to wipe the board.

[@gingrsnap1951]

Meathook massacre is so good! It’s pricy for sure but in any aristocrats deck it’s amazing!

[@FilippoCampana]

I think an odd omission is Doubling Season. There are a lot of tokens doublers and counters doublers, but the only other card that does both is Primal Vigor which has the significant downside of being symmetrical.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

fade away+ price of glory. also fade away does work in blue stax.

[@Tymor666]

Perplexing test is an ok replacement to cyclonic rift. 2 mana cheaper, versatile, and can leave you with a heavy advantage

[@thedude9300]

So glad I cracked a Meathook Massacre out of the 3or4 packs of midnight I bought.

[@jeremymajors8982]

I cracked one in pre-release! I would have never bought it at the price, but in my Muldrotha deck it is amazing.

[@budrothefox3666]

Meathook massacre is completely broken. It's a literaly win con engine in a single card attached to a board wipe that gets rid of hexproof and INDESTRUCTIBLE creatures. It's fucking insane!

[@sirusburningham4521]

As a part-owner of an LGS, there's not much interest in Standard in our area, once every 4 or so months someone will ask, but every time we've tried to fire off a Standard event no one shows up.

[@christopherellis409]

Where’s the love for a 40$ Necropotence and Opposition Agent sitting at a cool 10$ that’s a bargain!

[@Fromaginator]

Phil getting the podcast spoiled in real time from now on

[@tsurugi12]

Now that it comes to this constellation of the crew, it would be the best time for a "control or control it" week ( Control plays and stealing stuff) So that Tomer finally can be phyrexianized and gets to the dark side. XD

[@baconsir1159]

You said you’re sticking to the $10+ range, but for 5 and below I’ve gotta go with Fire Covenant. Feels like it over-performs every time I cast it. Pay 10 life and 3 mana, blow up like 5 cards on my opponent’s side at instant speed.

[@BobardeZanzibar]

Now that Richard has taken a hiatus from both Commander Clash and the podcast, any chance he could stream some of his commander grinding so we can still get our fix of Richard content?

[@zuterwer1835]

Let the man have his break

[@BobardeZanzibar]

@@zuterwer1835 D:

[@MTGGoldfish]

Seems unlikely over the next few months. I'm sure he'll pop up as a guest on Commander Clash and streams, but he's mostly going to be doing the dad thing for a bit (while also keeping the website running).

[@theliving1037]

I bought a demonic tutor when it dipped down to 20$.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Good buy.

[@Zanzibawrr]

ok fellas, i got to the part where you were talking about boardwipes, and i must say i am dissapointed you didn't even mention yahenni's expertise. so let's break down the numbers. yahenni's expertise gives creatures -3 -3 until end of turn and lets you play a free 3cmc card from your hand. according to scryfall, there are a total of 13078 creatures in magic, and 9429 creatures with toughness less than or equal to 3. that's 72.1 % of creatures with toughness 3 or less. also, according to EDHREC, 18 out of the 20 most played creatures have 3 or less toughness. so let's summarize: you have a card that will get rid of 72% of all creatures, and will kill 9 out of 10 creatures in your average commander game, and on top of that it lets you rebuild first since it gives you a free cast of a card with cmc 3 or less (which according to this video is a premium quality only the best boardwipes have) and somehow this card ISN'T considered when talking about the premier boardwipes in black?

[@MTGGoldfish]

The problem I have with cards like Yahenni's Expertise is that when I wrath there's usually a big, scary threat that I want to kill. Sweeping away a bunch of mana dorks and utility creatures is fine, but that doesn't necessarily keep me from dying to some huge monster or voltron commander.

[@Zanzibawrr]

@@MTGGoldfish hmm. Maybe it’s my playgroup then, because when i cast it usually it does a lot of work. Certainly better than god damn fade away

[@raymondcarter4335]

Hilarious, I pulled a Meathook Massacre in a booster I snagged in the checkout line at Walmart. After that I bought sooooo many Innistrad boosters 😂 I have weird luck though, I pulled a Kenrith yesterday in the token spot in a LOTR booster

[@bendlebimpcrumpystump8952]

Hehe Phil’s confused face after crim talks about life’s finale

[@matthewbowen9893]

It's tough when a cast has more than 5 people who are all very like able and enjoyable to consume content from, but their shows only have 4 seats. Like, very happy to have more of Phil, sad to have less of Richard.

[@Pengu92]

On the topic of Oko and why it isn't played more, I feel like it's because the VAST majority of commander players today skipped Eldraine standard and just don't know about Oko. Then they see Oko and don't evaluate it as repeatable removal, getting hung up on the other two abilities. People sing the praises of Kenrith's Transformation and Oko does it every turn and in exchange of drawing a card every time you basically gain 1 life per elk. Every attack on a planeswalker is not an attack at the face.

[@FearOgre]

More likes a vast majority of planeswalkers are average at best in edh, and end up being a one use.

[@Pengu92]

@@FearOgre That's a good point and not many early game walkers have as much loyalty as Oko. Without seeing it played out, I'm pretty hard pressed to believe that a table of commander players would actually team up on turn 4-5 to actually take out a timely Oko.

[@kingginger3335]

Demonic Tutor is the best tutor in the game. But, if you're playing Vaevictus Asmadi the Dire, Vampiric Tutor is 1 mana for a permanent. Same with Worldly and Imperial Seal.

[@sethchapman1425]

Black does things that other colors do except there is a price. The thing black does better is Discard (Hand disruption). That's how I always understood black in Magic.

[@mtgtinfoilthaumaturge1102]

Gale’s redirection and fury storm is a heavily under rated combo.

[@tribalmattersmtg5532]

Do you think that Mausoleum Secrets/Scheming Symmetry don’t cut it from a budget perspective? Scheming is the Secret Rendezvous of tutors 😉

[@Boo2012Yah]

Sorin Markov is by far the best Planeswalker in mtg. Especially in Commander.

[@schadenfreude4846]

Meathook Massacre is fantastic but nowhere NEAR worth $50

[@tcurrid8059]

Crim fact or fictions Seth chooses Meathook and swamp vs deluge, damnation, decree of pain. Easy decision, but I don’t think it disqualifies meathook. 100% wait for the post standard dip, there’s going to be dozens of copies flooding the market.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

I wanted a meathook massacre really badly for a kill'em all massacre themed deck but it's just too much.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Any of the “free if you control your commander” cycle, because they’re commander specific cards it’s going to be very hard to reprint basically only in a secret lair or commander legends set

[@supranova7594]

Or just any of the 20 some odd commander decks that come out with each set every year like they did with jeskas will being in the dnd gruul deck but yeah I see wotc milking the value of those cards in another commander legends set or the next masters

[@Crunchatize_Me_Senpai]

New playmat looks dope, I ordered the one with the filigree signatures on it. The cartoon fish merch is adorable but not really my style, so this is a nice alternative. Meathook Massacre....I’m not even sold on it in aristocrats, honestly. It’s basically Black Sun’s Zenith ($4) plus Zulaport Cutthroat ($0.25). The fact that it mimics both of those cards pretty well on one card is nice, but like....$10, maybe 20, feels like the right price. $50 is way too much.

[@atk9989]

yea and its up because standard is a thing, GoldSpan dragon was up around $40 until rotation in standard was announced and once it happens it should be under $20

[@starmanda88]

Yeah I only have one because I’m a dirty counterfeiter lol. I wouldn’t even pay 20 for it honestly.

[@IEpixlyFail]

I love how Crim said California is a small state even though it has the largest population out of the U.S.

[@Puff26]

Domination, Toxic Deluge, Languish

[@JacoDeltaco]

questing beast can kill trought Teferi protection which is super fun

[@FearOgre]

Only if its your commander.

[@JacoDeltaco]

@@FearOgre now that you said it I think you are right

[@supermassivi1995]

Another episode of the I Hate Dockside Podcast

[@theetiologist9539]

Meathook Massacre is a fifteen dollar card max. There’s no way I’d spend $40 on it.

[@CaptNovogrod]

Phil just forced me to buy Sea Gate Restoration after he made me realize it was cheaper than I expected

[@MacPlaysRed]

I am also down on Meathook Massacre. I could buy Demonic tutor AND Toxic deluge and still have money left over for a blood artist...

[@soulhunter6438]

I may have an unpopular opinion but I hate smothering Tithe and I own 3 of the darn card.

[@Shane16784]

“It’s like toxic deluge in Blue” Why you gotta do your card like that? Setting it up for failure Also Meathook down to 50, nice haha. It can get a bit forgotten about but the effect it has in the decks it goes in is insane. The point about Standard, it basically is the new version of The Great Henge. It might drop a bit after rotation but without reprints this card isn’t gonna fall much more than it is now. So happy I bought it back when it was 13 dollars in the prerelease

[@brick4939]

For me dockside has been consistently dissapointing. Its probably mostly my playgroup but the last 4 times i drew that goblin it would have made me 3 treasures maximum.

[@jayjayhooksch1]

3 treasures out of a 2 drop creature is still an insane card.

[@actuallyKriminell]

not if your deck isnt built around it. Noone just plays random rituals

[@jayjayhooksch1]

@@actuallyKriminell id agree if it was just a dark ritual but it's not a ritual; that mana doesn't just disappear when the next step ends. Every deck can use 3 extra mana on their next turn. Also, the vast majority of decks are going to have some synergy with creatures.

[@maxwellbalkema5388]

I feel like black has better wrath’s than meathook. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like damnation and deluge as just better for cost. I often find that meathook doesn’t kill the creatures I want it to

[@zackestin1368]

I mean if youre running two wipes in your deck sure, but thats not correct to do so. it beats most other options like languish, but I do think that its better to wait for it to rotate out of standard in a year and just buy it then.