Experimental Character Showcase - Organ Grinder

[@johnnguyen4464]

How is the organ grinder evil? it’s the cutest token I’ve seen yet!

[@johnlarkin7781]

That's how it gets you...

[@aleafinthewind52]

A good organ grinder... That'd be chaos.

[@baguettegott3409]

Really, you think? I think it looks creepy. Apes creep me out, they can bite your face off and stuff... But to be fair I'm just kind of scared of all animals lmao. From my perspective it's always sort of funny to see which ones get a pass from the general population because they're "cute" - nobody complains about the No Dashii token, because people don't find octopuses cute I guess.

[@luissinani6512]

*Lil Monsta has entered the chat*

[@thecrazything95]

It uh.. grinds your organs

[@Thesolarslime]

I'm so happy that the fez is the official hat of blood on the clocktower, because now I have an excuse to wear a fez.

[@somecallmetim4490]

No one has an acceptable excuse to wear a fez…

[@alexbarber1566]

@@somecallmetim4490 the king of morocco?

[@nathano6277]

Daddy two dongs is back?! With a new character!? I cannot wait for an Organ Grinder + Poppy Grower game.

[@Dragonatrix]

OG & PG probably wouldn't keep the Evil team separate for long, to be fair. OG can just play that game as outed Evil. Not like they can be executed if they dont want to be.

[@leddave]

Spoilers!!! Shame about the end there, seemed like Good were unable to lose with having a fresh artist question in a final three. Seems a bit OP.

[@Clapham37]

I thought that too whilst watching it. I know Daddy Ben said Lil Monsta should have one evil in the final three, but if evil manages to bluff their way to the final four, killing one seems harsh.

[@vincenturquhart1370]

they still have to trust evee and liam for that info to be useful though

[@SickRedApple]

Yeah I don't think that artist question affected anything. Eevee didn't even seem to trust it herself. Malakai was already the most sus in the final three without that

[@intrepidfool]

And honestly, Liam should have died day 2 but evil players made some voting mistakes as they seemed to forget their votes were hidden which resulted in Clown dying instead

[@michaelkaram467]

​@SickRedApple Malakai was not most sus as eevee seemed to think it was Jojo as Malakai was farmer confirmed

[@BasketOfPuppies642]

Organ Grinder plus Vortox is so brutal, I love it. Throw in a Fearmonger for good measure, and why not lets go with a Poppy Grower too.

[@identitythief3012]

Throw in a goblin as well

[@haichie1341]

Needs boomdandy as well, always needs boomdandy

[@basilcormier5876]

I agree never enough explosions

[@Herrscher-of-Autism]

​​@@haichie1341Throw in an alchemist and a drunk alchemist too I know that's not how drunk works tho

[@larsg.2492]

Edd is back, and what a fun game to see him again.

[@intrepidfool]

only halfway through this and late to the party, but it is really odd how the evil players are voting so far - nobody can see your votes so there is zero reason to vote on your teammates or to not vote on good players.. watching Malakai vote on Clown and Clown not vote on Liam was baffling.... Ben says "evil tried to get that off Clown" but they really didn't. Malakai put it on Clown and Clown chose not to remove it from failing to vote on Liam... edit: game would have played out very differently if evil hadn't made this early mistake - ah well

[@BloodontheClocktower]

With an Artist on the script, the possibility for a damming question about who voted or if evil voted might have caused them to be a bit cagey. - Ben

[@intrepidfool]

@@BloodontheClocktower I suppose. But there would be enough people voting (to put someone on the block) that you could hide a bit -- losing an evil player early is worse than a little suss imo. I do appreciate the response and it gives me something to ponder. Keep up the great work - really enjoy this game and the great content from TPI.

[@emisor9272]

Does Malakai holding the Monsta as a Spy make him possibly register as any of the 4 player types? Can't remember if being a babysitter overrides registering as Minion, or as anything else, for that matter

[@josephjoestar3631]

As the Spy he can register as whatever. So he doesn't need LM to register as extra things. A farmer holding LM could only register as 2 types

[@benjaminmatt253]

If a pit hag turns all the minions, including themselves, into a townsfolk. Who votes on who gets the little monsta?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Nobody. The Lil Monsta' can no longer exist and the good team wins immediately. - Ben

[@EdsonR13]

How many new characters do we have coming out in this roll out, theres the organ grinder + whatever the clocktower con reveal is but how many more can we expect?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

At current, the plan is to release a character each month until we run out of characters. We currently have enough to keep us going for several years. - Ben

[@EdsonR13]

@Blood on the Clocktower oh I thought it might be like a batch release but a new character a month for the next couple years sounds good too

[@SunniDae333]

52:45 wow that was a really great question, Liam

[@Tawnyami]

This is one of the best games of blood on the clock tower I’ve ever seen! So many fun mechanics played out here.

[@themightyredemption]

This was unfair to evil.

[@yoshi6421]

What is the artwork of the Spy token supposed to represent? I keep staring at it but my brain refuses to understand what I'm looking at.

[@daviddrake57]

A masquerade mask

[@culila]

​@@daviddrake57 and here i was all this time thinking it was just some cool split colour lipstick

[@letmehaveaonelettername.]

would a cannibal snitch give the minions a second set of bluffs?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Yep. - Ben

[@Drjos]

Despite what it's name suggests Virgin Media spends a lot of time on it's back and their connection constantly goes tits up

[@aleafinthewind52]

Seriously dude...😂

[@aleafinthewind52]

Can someone explain the jinx between OG and preacher/minstrel?

[@dliessmgg]

Both of them can disable the og ability. For minstrel, it would confirm that the last execution was a minion, and that can happen multiple times per game. For preacher, it would confirm that the person they chose is the og, and disables their ability permanently. And both of those make the og vulnerable to execution. So I'm guessing they decided that these two are too much of a hard counter for og.

[@teekessel]

I haven't finished the video yet, so maybe it's cleared up at some point. But shouldn't Malakai as the evil Farmer no longer be able to see the Grimoire anymore as he's not the Spy anymore and therefore does not have the Spy's ability?

[@hannahbbug3532]

He didn't see the Grim after that point

[@teekessel]

@@hannahbbug3532 He still gave a thumbs up during the nights after that, which I interpreted as him looking at the update of the Grim.

[@Sal-iw8zg]

@@teekessel incredibly late, but in case you were still waking up anxiously in the middle of the night to ponder this problem (and for anyone coming by curious in the future), I'm pretty sure those thumbs-ups were for being told he was holding the baby.

[@teekessel]

@@Sal-iw8zg Completely forgot, but thank you regardless.

[@yugiwinninglex]

Is there a jinx with Lita Monsta and Organ Grinder. They just never vote on themselves and they wins?

[@coldtv5777]

The jinx is that organ grinder can be voted normally while holding lil Monster

[@yugiwinninglex]

@@coldtv5777 yea saw it L. Thanks

[@princeanubis7800]

I'm confused on how an evil farmer was made

[@dombailey8401]

Part of the spy's ability is that they can register as good, so they're a valid choice for the farmer token to jump to. Becoming the farmer doesn't change your alignment though, so Malakai remained evil even when becoming the farmer.

[@princeanubis7800]

@@dombailey8401 thank you, so why did they show the cannibal artist ability with Liam still alive? Sorry if I'm asking noob questions.

[@Moleoflands]

​@@princeanubis7800 Cannibal ate a dead Pixie, so gained Pixie's ability

[@altrivotzck6565]

@@Moleoflands Which is that they start knowing a townsfolk role that's in play (and that they can gain that role's ability when that role dies, if they try to convince everyone else that they are actually that role). The part not in parentheses is what let the Cannibal learn that the Artist was in play.

[@masterjbt]

hi youtube! I’m in the video twitch chat

[@metaderivative8305]

If Jaqui had been the organ grinder when shade deadvoted on her, then Shade's deadvote wouldn't have counted, which means Shade's deadvote would have counted on subsequent nominations that day. Therefore, I don't think a dead player voting more than once in the same day when an Organ Grinder is active should be considered "illegal."

[@scrungozeclown836]

Then the dead would know they voted on the organ grinder, because they'd be able to tell their vote didn't count. Everyone votes, their vote just counts as 0, similar to how that one outsider still counts as a vote, it's just -1

[@maizen1335]

Votes not counting doesn't mean they didn't happen. Shade still used his dead vote, it was just worth 0 votes. A Thief choosing a dead player and having their vote count as -1 wouldn't give them an extra vote token

[@metaderivative8305]

@@maizen1335 Oh! That does clarify my misunderstanding. Thank you!

[@btmikey1925]

I'm loving all the new roles, but do we have any news on expansions? I'd love to get some of these new characters physically so I can add them to my games!

[@nelsonyiap81]

Having an artist question in final 3 sealed it for good

[@q-tuber7034]

I know this game was meant to be an OG showcase, but: showing the Cannibal a Lunatic bluff was awesome, as was the Spy catching the Farmer.

[@smittynumber1812]

I'm a big fan of evil roles that everyone knows is in the game. Big Al, Leviathan, OG, and anything else I'm forgetting

[@comp.lex4]

Psychopath!!

[@TemujinReads]

Chalk me up as unsatisfied with how that played out. I don't like Lil Monsta killing a minion unless it's absolutely necessary, and here it was not.

[@RavenGlenn]

Agreed. It robbed the evil team of any chance of victory. Ed was trying to explain to Ben that they'd know exactly who to kill if he killed off the organ grinder. Sure enough it is exactly what happened.

[@MarioXMan100]

I hate to say it but I think when Ben killed Chris in the night, Ben basically chose Good to win

[@BloodontheClocktower]

If memory serves ( it's been a while), I did what the Demon would have wanted me to do, which is basically all you can in these situations. - Ben

[@MarioXMan100]

@@BloodontheClocktower that’s understandable

[@mitchelltaylor6917]

So I'm curious, why does the Organ Grinder have the addendum of "votes on you only count if you vote"? Seems unnecessarily strong, so im curious what in testing or design prompted that part of the ability?

[@legonut78]

I think it’s purpose will be clear against more traditional demons. When you know your demon is being voted on, the Organ Grinder is almost always going to vote for themselves.

[@TemujinReads]

If the town executes the Organ Grinder, and then voting the next day is normal again, that outs them as an evil player.

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Organ Grinder usually ends up being discovered via voting eventually. So having them make it to final 3 is almost always massively detrimental to the evil team. - Ben

[@mitchelltaylor6917]

@@BloodontheClocktower OH that makes sense. I hadn't considered the adverse affect of what I thought was strong. Having a guaranteed evil player in final 3 along with a demon means 2 out of three nominations are for evil; but the good team is guaranteed to know who the demon is if they've found the Organ Grinder through voting. That way their one nomination is accurate. Wow, that clears it all up, thanks a ton Ben.

[@celestialTangle]

Would an "even if you are dead" stipulation on the Organ Grinder simplify this?

[@brendenwright4209]

monke

[@jennaharris5434]

Feeling the solidarity with Edd, as I watch this with a wriggly baby strapped to my chest too 😅

[@jaysea682]

The organ grinder is interesting but i feel like there's many things that are better names, and many more fitting abilities for an organ grinder

[@BloodontheClocktower]

You can't just leave it this ambiguous Keith. We need to know what other names and/or abilities you have in your brain box. Spill the beans! - Ben

[@jaysea682]

@@BloodontheClocktower I'm not sure but organ grinder sounds a lot more violent then something that hides votes Something like puppeteer Or with the monkey witch i feel like fits the ability it could be the ring master/Circus master which plays into the chaotic idea And the a more fitting ability for an organ grinder could be something like and evil cannibal or something

[@RealRamaladni]

@@jaysea682 I agree. I like the ability, but the token/role don't scream "organ grinder"

[@qbul]

it's the little monkey you have run around with its little organ, distracting people when you run a scam on them. makes sense

[@MissLilyth]

​@@jaysea682 I mean an organ grinder's monkey just means that the monkey thinks they hold power, when someone else has power over them. An organ grinder doesn't actually mean "a grinder of organs", but an instrument that was used by street performers who had a monkey performing with them. In the BOTC case, we could say that the voters think they have any say/power, whilst actually the organ grinder hides the information and can't be voted off unless THEY want to be voted off.

[@alejoblack368]

Organ Grinder best minion, fight me

[@michaelsecker8105]

How big are you? Do you know any martial arts? I'm not getting into this until I know more details. Also, where do you live? I'll travel a bit but I'd prefer not to overnight if I don't have to.

[@alejoblack368]

6'1", no but I used to play American football for my university; Netherlands

[@michaelsecker8105]

@@alejoblack368 Difficult decision. I do like the Netherlands but I would definitely lose the fight. Maybe instead of a fight we could do a scenic boat tour?

[@Tyrope]

I know I'm 2 months late. But this is the best interactions I've read in a KZbin comment section in a long time. (Btw, I would totally spectate this fight/join boat tour as a fellow Dutchie)

[@OmnicronVT]

Who is Edd in the BotC world? Is he part of the company?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

He's the volunteer coordinator. He also admins the unofficial server, which is the largest Clocktower server on Discord. - Ben

[@JeremyMathews-p6z]

How is there an evil farmer? I thought farmer only transferred to a good player

[@BloodontheClocktower]

It's been a while since this game, but if I had to hazard a guess it's because the Spy can register as good, and can therefore become the Farmer. - Ben

[@JeremyMathews-p6z]

@@BloodontheClocktower that makes sense, thanks for the response

[@furcrafter4105]

I had an idea for an experimental character. Mr. Hyde. Sort of like a little monster except the townsfolk does not know they are mr Hyde and do not detect as a demon. If at any point the minions make me Hyde aware of who he is he will start appearing as a demon and can control his kills but will lose his townsfolk ability.

[@josephjoestar3631]

So it's a Marionette but a demon?

[@furcrafter4105]

@@josephjoestar3631 sort of correct except their townsfold ability functions as normal and they detect as good until they are informed by a minion of the truth. At that point they detect as evil, townsfolk ability ceases to function and can choose who to kill.

[@alchemicpink2392]

A year later in my limited evaluation: The fun thing about the Organ Grinder is that people become more willing to vote on social reads and significantly more hesitant to vote on players they trust when it's in the game. Which is an interesting dynamic that Evils can exploit.

[@AronLeonard]

The organ grinder seems fun. Also love it when my home city of Doncaster gets mentioned on videos lol

[@57thorns]

Not the kind of organ grinder I imagined when I read the title of the video.

[@Mythic_Menagerie]

Now I want to see an organ grinder leviathan game. Think of the chaos.

[@AnnaNicole.]

I approve of Shade's foxes.

[@strawbunnyy]

so… when do we get the official botc fez?

[@TitanTyphon]

Getting confused by these cannibal abilities. I get that with the evil execution she was poisoned, so had a bogus ability, but how did the pixie one work?

[@markzeleznick6184]

She gained pixie ability learning a town folk character is in play, so learned artist

[@noonyx33]

this was a fun episode!

[@brandonhouston7575]

About time for another kickstarter

[@kylemartin7871]

I haven't finished this yet, but if the other minions could get themselves killed in a Lil Monsta game, doesn't that guarantee the win for evil? ST isn't going to kill the last evil at night, and then the OG just needs to not vote for themselves.

[@EdsonR13]

The jinx states that if organ grinder is holding little monsta they lose the part of their ability that protects them from execution

[@kylemartin7871]

@@EdsonR13 I don't know what a jinx is, where does it say this?

[@EdsonR13]

@Kyle Martin a Jinx is a special rule made specifically to fix less than ideal character interactions, they're found at the bottom of the script when two such characters are on the script together.

[@andrewwolfgang7461]

Is there a jinx with butler?

[@Dragonatrix]

Butler can vote any time the OG is in play, but their vote only counts if their master votes as well.

[@witheringrabbit]

Game was given away by Storytellers allowing a fresh artist question on final day. That's so overpowered for good team, especially if people know they are the cannibal and they got artist info. Was close before then.

[@notsolm]

Trouble is, 2 evil in final 3 would have been just as OP, in the other direction. The mistake from evil was executing the artist the day before with a cannibal alive.

[@SunniDae333]

What software is this?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

This is the official app. Check the description for a link to it. - Ben

[@Wisdomseyes1]

My first thought is: what stops the organ grinder from simply babysitting little monster and then never voting on themselves? Have not seen the video yet, interested to see if this comes up

[@alejoblack368]

They're Jinxed! Organ Grinder + Lil' Monsta: If the Organ Grinder is babysitting Lil' Monsta, votes for the Organ Grinder count normally.

[@aaronfidelis3188]

Correct me if I'm wrong... How can a Spy become a farmer if he's not a good player? Isn't that breaking the rules?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Good question. The Spy's ability is that they can register as a 'good' player for the purposes of other players' abilities, which means they can viably become a Farmer if the Farmer dies.

[@aaronfidelis3188]

Ah that fold of the Spy's ability... You sure do know how to make a game intricate 🤣 Then just to clarify, no other minion can become a farmer this way, correct?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

That's correct. It works the other way around for the Recluse as well. They can register as a Minion, so can become a good Imp if the Imp kills themselves. Storytellers should be careful when doing that though. It's usually a death sentence for the evil team. - Ben

[@aaronfidelis3188]

EY ITS BEN! My fav storyteller... NRB or otherwise.... May your games be filled with much chaos and intricacies! Glory to TPI!

[@BloodontheClocktower]

:) Thanks!

[@alexbarber1566]

how come evee the cannibal got to choose who dies in the night?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

It's been a while since this game and I don't remember anything about it. Any chance you could provide a timestamp? - Ben

[@alexbarber1566]

@@BloodontheClocktower 1:05:15

[@alexbarber1566]

the witch just died, so they were poisoned, I get that now. But theres no ability on the roster that you're simulating by asking 'who dies tonight'

[@BloodontheClocktower]

The Lunatic. If a Cannibal had eaten the Lunatic, then I would be obliged to wake them up and treat them as though they were an evil Demon. - Ben

[@alexbarber1566]

@@BloodontheClocktower right so she has no ability but you pretend shes eaten a lunatic that thinks theyre a demon so chooses a kill...which has no effect...but you just decide to kill that player anyway for a laugh as is the perogative of ST in Lil Monsta game? appreciate taking the time to respond, I'm watching a lot getting my head around the gameplay and meta hopefully I can play one day

[@LemonStir]

Ben: "Shade accidentally cheated." Me: "Ben accidentally forgot THREE TIMES to take away the dead vote that allowed the cheating." I mean come on Ben. Blame shifting much?

[@michaelkaram467]

In organ grinder game dead votes don't get taken till the day ends did you not watch like the next two seconds after that?

[@chaosfellow7407]

Couldn't evil win with the organ grinder just holding onto the little montsta and not voting?

[@TemujinReads]

They're jinxed - if the Organ Grinder is holding Lil Monsta, votes on them count normally.

[@chaosfellow7407]

@@TemujinReads Thanks, I didn't see that

[@RoderickEtheria]

So the OG is my least liked character so far.

[@soulg5846]

Any reason why? It seems like a fun way to switch things up, all the recent videos about it are pretty neat. Would love to hear about a different point of view :)

[@RoderickEtheria]

@Soul G No way to kill if on evil team, because evil would want uncertainty. Removes a hefty tool for getting reads on the situation. It being as an Alchemist on a Legion script will likely mean it doesn't die, as Legions vote up the other town brings a near certain evil win. It being on a Vortox script makes you entirely uncertain if you're getting enough votes to prevent insta-loss. There is also no way it plays as anything other than evil, because evil absolutely do not want to kill it, and on the side of good, by Alchemist ability, Pit Hag ability, or Barber ability, its aim will always be to kill itself, taking itself out of play at the cost of a townsfolk. In other words, from my perspective, it is too powerful, one-sided without being demon, and does not play well with others.

[@aleafinthewind52]

Yeah, I haven't played much of the game, but these characters that mess with everyone such as matron or voudon don't seem as good as some more subtle ones such as legion or PG.

[@WellingtonRandomNumbers]

@@RoderickEtheria It's definitely not as powerful as it seems, while it does remove a tool for getting reads, its power heavily relies on the lack of town communication, while having an effectively immortal evil player does seem nice, it's not much of a positive, at the end of the day evil really wants a lot of *demon* candidates in final 3, if town's voted for the organ grinder and everyone's communicated their intent to vote and the OG STILL doesn't die, they already ruled out a potential demon so they're probably not gonna bother nominating them again, I do agree that it benefits evil way more than good though (I mean, it is a minion, so it makes sense).

[@BloodontheClocktower]

So, there's a lot to unpack here, but I'll try my best to address everything you've said. "No way to kill if on evil team, because evil would want uncertainty" Organ Grinders almost always get discovered, so this is actually a bad thing for the evil team. If the Organ Grinder is outed and ends up in final 3 then evil has seriously fucked up, as it has actually provided a huge degree of certainty, as in the good team is certain of who the Organ Grinder is (and therefore the Demon isn't). This is why the Demon will usually kill them before the end. "Removes a hefty tool for getting reads on the situation" Yes, that's kinda the point. Pretty much all minions do this. If anything OG is a little weaker than a Poisoner or a Spy, because you can simply ask people to say whether or not they voted. Only a very small number of players would have a reason to lie about it, whereas consistently poisoned info is much more difficult to discern. This kind of group discussion is actually terrible for the evil team and the OG not only encourages it, but kinda demands it. "It being as an Alchemist on a Legion script will likely mean it doesn't die" Townsfolk are supposed to benefit the good team. An Organ Grinder-Alchemist will almost certainly hinder them, massively. If your ST makes an OG-Alchemist then they are, at the very least, running a meme game. I'd question the motives of any ST who makes an Alchemist-OG. As someone who has been running the OG for over 4 years, I can tell you that, if anything, this Minion is a bit too weak. This is a great example of the thing I said at the beginning of the video, where a relatively new player will look at the Spy and think it is massively OP, only to realise that it's actually very easy to work around once they get a bit more experience playing with/against it. - Ben

[@_nexus5943]

was lucky enough to see this game live! had an absolute blast. im yami_wo_haratte_