Exploring Perspectives with Enrique Enriquez.

[@musingsbymascha]

I loved so much how you started this conversation, Natalia... Interestingly, recently I have been followed by a very insistent most beautiful yellow-crested cockatoo on my walks... and then EE mentioning a cage brought memories of the budgie Romochka who I grew up with in my family's apartment in Belarus... he only entered his cage to sleep for the night, but his cage was open for the whole of his life... and our windows were always open, yet my Roma budgie never wanted to fly away... Wonderful conversation! Thank you! xx

[@tarotshrink]

That’s beautiful Mascha. Roma must have not felt caged. What a great analogy.

[@oliverb8856]

I've written down so many quotes from this conversation that I want to return to. Fantastic. So many valuable perspectives you're bringing in these series. I hope there will be many more.

[@tarotshrink]

That’s wonderful! And yes! I have a big list of people who fascinate me and I hope my dialogues with them will fascinate you too!

[@Whoismonroecarter]

All the books in the back❤… is amazing! What a lovely conversation😊

[@tarotshrink]

Always yes to books and more books please 🤪

[@magickalmooncat]

What an intriguing discussion! What Enrique said about everything having an inner line... pollution of the symbolic world... all such fascinating points. What you said about images, it reminds me of the Heart Sutra, where it talks about how material form is shapeless/emptiness. I feel like as humans we are so used to communicating in human terms and languages (which I think is just the natural course of things). In order to connect with that rhythm and flow of the earth or universe, we may need to pause those human senses for a bit and tap into the language of the universe, whatever that may be. Perhaps it is something humans cannot perceive, who knows. The natural world has a very impressive way of balancing itself. I think that human beings imposing control on the natural world is actually causing more chaos. Sorry for the long comment, those are just some thoughts I had while watching. Thanks for the wonderful video ❤

[@tarotshrink]

I love your thoughts about the humans imposing control on the natural world or presumptions about the natural world needing us to reduce it. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@BarbMcSkarie]

YUMMMM! What a feast this was. Thank you Natalia and thank you Enrique. What treasures you both are ❤

[@tarotshrink]

Thank you! It was a pure joy to talk to him.

[@katcoyle8927]

Wonderful and inspiring!

[@tarotshrink]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@05k4r]

Wonderful conversation in a huge biblioteca. Maybe is that the mundus imaginalis will always be a work in progress, as long as there is an imagination. As Wallace Stevens wrote "Yet the absence of the imagination had Itself to be imagined." I think its abandonment is more worrisome than its pollution. The pollution of the invisible world is the product of the proverbial broken glass of a window that nobody wants to repair and for which fewer and fewer people know what to look for, and even fewer know where to find it. You can see an ideogram in the "S" of the sea waves, and an ideogram in the "l" of the seashore, just like in Spanish "l" and "m" of alma. Siempre una alegria escuchar a Enrique.

[@tarotshrink]

That’s so beautiful and important to note the abandonment .

[@TheArcherSoul]

Such a treat!🦜❤

[@tarotshrink]

He is an absolute pleasure to talk to!

[@analuisahering2043]

Beautiful interview and interaction ❤ Thank you so much for sharing ! Even the shelf lines (boards) from both worlds were trying to meet in the middle 😊

[@tarotshrink]

Ohh that’s a beautiful observation. Makes me think that this dialogue wanted to intersect. Thank you!

[@analuisahering2043]

@@tarotshrink thank YOU for bringing such insightful conversation and EE ! What a poet 😍

[@ameldb8486]

Thank you ! This was very interesting, I need to watch it again to catch a little more understanding. I really liked a lot of and I just realized that maybe, we, humans are out of nature as paradoxal beings. We live in 4 diffrents segments , past, présent, future and dreams, that separate us from the communication of the rest of the nature who communicate in a langage that we do not hear. Of course scientists find out systems of communications of plants and animals but, we, naturaly do not see or hear. I just discovered that for exemple tomatoes produces spécial sounds when they miss water that animals can hear but cannot the humans, because This is in a diffrent level of bertz. humans think that they are elevated in comparaison of animals because they think but finaly This is us that are trapped in a cage of our mental?

[@tarotshrink]

Love your thoughts and I think we are our own captors when it comes to language. Especially when it comes to tarot cards, how can we sit with the unknown vs. assigning meaning that may or may not be there. How do we sit with the paradox.

[@ameldb8486]

@@tarotshrink so much ! We are for a lot of us unable to express what we can feel. Maybe we do not trust our wild animal in us and soon as we start to put words, we get lots in our nature humanity ? Your question is just so fascinating :) i need to sit with it :) love This !

[@TarotTherapeia]

Love love love this new series Natalia, what a treat ! I’d like to reference this conversation in my post grad study in creative therapies looking at tarot. I’m familiar with Jung but wondering what other source material I could explore ? Particularly this idea of defining the point between the liminal and reality. Many thanks for the fabulous stimuli of thoughts!

[@tarotshrink]

Hmmm not sure about liminal and reality but for tarot and creative therapy I’d suggest: The way of the image by Yoram Kaufman The door of serenity by Ainslie Meares Ego and archetype by Edward Edinger Jung and tarot by Sallie Nichols

[@TarotTherapeia]

@@tarotshrink 🙏🏽❤️ thank you

[@giginilsson]

i agree very much with what enrique said about taking responsibility for the symbolic world. personally, i don't think we are doomed; we are being ambushed and i agree that it is scary, but i also agree that there is a freedom precisely in taking responsibility. maybe we can go from naming to translating; language is part of the symbolic world after all, it can open the cage too. i agree that naming is temporary because we try to translate the aliveness of something into words, but the aliveness translates itself into words in many different ways, depending on the brain it is accessed with. this is what poetry is to me. it is intrinsic. and i think more people listen to sand than we think. "because i was there, they touched; there was a witness to the beauty of the moment", i LOVE THAT very much. thank you for this. all of this has been on my mind all day.

[@tarotshrink]

That’s lovely about language also saving us and freedom in taking responsibility.

[@jackson.d1500]

Wonderful

[@tarotshrink]

Thank you.

[@ianbored8859]

... meanwhile in the realm of "the tradition" the debate is if the soul has 3 or 4 parts or 7 as the Egyptians described. The definition of the soul is clear : the soul is the immortal part of you, your connection with infinity/nature (one has to clean and strengthen that connection etc). As for the Greek interpretation: Soul is ψυχή -meaning/deriving from ψυχω cold breath /exhalation -meaning will -The Will. and I do this for free

[@ianbored8859]

to exhale -to project force .phyche

[@tarotshrink]

All of this is true. None of this is true. Can you sit with the paradox?

[@ianbored8859]

@@tarotshrink honestly no. I have to solve the riddle or else I loose my soul , my personal connection with infinity. It's an existential risk not a rhetorical exercise.

[@trex1570]

Fantastic dialogue. This was an absolute TREAT! Thank you 🙏🏾

[@tarotshrink]

Awesome!

[@sanguinetitarot7780]

Absurdite totalmente. Pardon my french.

[@tarotshrink]

Absurdities, paradox and ambiguity is precisely what it is!

[@sanguinetitarot7780]

So the claim here is that any random element can be used as a symbol for fortune telling, divination etc and that the use of random elements has the same validity as the traditional systems of divination -Because nothing is true , everything is permitted. This is the root of this deliberation and in my view this is a very dangerous approach that reinforces the anethical bad practices endemic in the traditional systems. If an astrologer makes the statement : mars in the 3rd house will make you weak -then any other astrologer can refute that claim based on literature and thousands of years of experience, verification and practice. (and there is always room for innovation and evolution yes). If a fisherman says : look at how the seagulls fly in circles in the harbor .there is a storm coming ! ...-i will probably believe that statement. But if my hairdresser says that the Virgin Mary told her to burn her house down or if a plumber says that my faucet is dripping because I need to buy a new bathtub then I will consider these statements as absurd and threatening. And if a tarot reader says that card VII represents planet Mars or that the black horse on card VII represents my mother, although heretical, such a statements can be explained and justified ,within the context of the particular practice. But if a tarot reader says that card VII means that I should vote for Obama then I call this a bad practice and no I have no problem with Obama. The point is that somethings are true and some are false and for sure not everything is permitted or should be permitted. And that if there is manipulation and bad practice in Tarot or Astrology this is because there manipulation and bad practice in society in general. Should we destroy everything or should we reinforce the healthy elements in everything?

[@tarotshrink]

@Sanguineti Tarot hi. I agree with you that that to eliminate that which we know true is problematic. I also don’t think Enrique is saying that at all. What this discussion is after is to save the images from our own layering and construction of meaning and allow it to breathe with its essence. A lion is a lion, a dangerous animal. One can project all sorts of associations onto it, including the personal, I am the lion, but the lion's essence remains. When Enrique shares an experience with the pigeon and looks up symbolic definition, he is amused by the poetry of chance encounter, definition, and his awareness of the pigeon as is. I fully agree with what you share, but that’s not what we discuss here, and I am sorry if it came across to you as such.

[@sanguinetitarot7780]

Does it matter that it was a seagull though and not a pigeon? Pigeons have been used since antiquity as trusted messenger birds that would fly hundreds of kilometers with little notes tied on the leg and they are also associated with the holy spirit that gives inspiration. The seagull on the other hand is a free roamer, a wanderer, maybe he follows a flock of sardines or a ship and if we follow a seagull we wouldn't know where we would end up. Therefore the phrase: if you see a seagull in your dream then don't trust whatever a fortune teller will say that day. That would make more sense than :if you see a pigeon etc ... (please excuse this obsession with a small detail but if I didn't try to decode the thing it would torment me to eternity lol thanks for the understanding)

[@tarotshrink]

@@sanguinetitarot7780 on the contrary, your desire to decode is enticing because the first point your made of everything becoming meaningless is nothing holds true is important.

[@calypso_lazuli]

One of the most fascinating subjects of esotericism/occultism is linguistics, in my humble opinion. It doesn’t get enough attention but is an integral part of esotericism, in the realm of tarot, for example, it’s contained in Kabbalah. And as someone who recently came out as non-binary, I suffered from MAJOR gender dysphoria as a child, not understanding that I was inherently feminine though born biological male and not identifying with that gender was so difficult to comprehend that I finally came to terms with in my 30s and it was partly due to tarot studies - The Art or Temperance card itself is the card of the Divine Hermaphrodite, so is Baphomet and even The High Priestess brings you closer in between the pillars of the masculine and feminine…. The policing of language hits me very hard, it’s an issue specifically in the United States, as someone who is bilingual myself I love language and the progression it goes through throughout the centuries to adjust to society….

[@tarotshrink]

I am so sorry to hear of your history of painful Dysphoria and it can be especially painful when one exists in the world where language is not only being policed but there are no language to define one experience. One of the main reasons we have more trans and nonbinary folks coming out today.

[@calypso_lazuli]

@@tarotshrink And thank you for the wonderful work that you do 🙏🏽 I LOVE your presence and not only that but you’re a total gift from somewhere else, the fact that you are also a tarot nerd is like whaaaatttt, you go girl 😂🥰♥️💜❤️

[@tarotshrink]

@@calypso_lazuli ahhhh you must know me from my other work. I keep this two separate and seldom others find this channel and I am glad you did. Tarot is an amazing tool to explore inner terrain of one’s gender landscape.

[@calypso_lazuli]

@@tarotshrink On The contrary, I’ve been in the tarot community for years and known about you about a year ago and had absolutely no idea that you specialized in (trans-)gender studies 🤪 I’ve always been controversial so I go in and out of deciding to comment on people’s videos but I just felt the need to give a hug to your soul through my subconscious. I understand your concerns, you remind me of my best friend who has a masters degree in healthcare but also wants to do an onlyfans and a pagan channel and she struggles with being associated with all at once in the public eye. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever, but we all have different opinions. I’ll delete these comments so that it doesn’t attract hateration on your beautiful channel. Thank you again and I hope you have a lovely evening 🥰🥰🥰

[@tarotshrink]

@@calypso_lazuli no need to delete at all! I could care less what others think! Especially with this channel as it is my selfish pursuits of my passions!