Exploring the Color Computer 3 |

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In this video, we're getting up to some #SepTandy shenanigans with the Color Computer 3! Please like, subscribe, and stay tuned for fresh content and all the latest information about the Vintage Geek museum.
Hosted and produced by Aaron Ishmael.
Technical work by Joseph William Lewis.

[@KG4JYS]

My first computer was the coco3 - I think I was 7 or 8. I have fond memories of it. I only had the Tandy cassette recorder for accessories. Later, we got the tandy1000sx with the joystick, monitor, and a Trackstar 128 board.

[@BollingHolt]

16:48 Ohhhh now there are some memories! When I got my CoCo2 when I was 5, this was one of the components I got with it. I remember my dad and me typing the program in and saving it to the cassette (named the program "TALK", of course), and having tons and tons of fun with it! I remember trying to remember the different phonetic spellings of words between this and the speech on the TI-99/4A at my grandfather's house, comparing how they sounded. I still need to locate one of these, a Direct Connect Modem Pak, the proper cassette recorder, and a DMP-133 printer to go with the CoCo3 I have now to closely mimic what I had in the mid-80s through the early 90s.

[@CurtisBoyle]

Great video! Some comments/information: The two joystick ports, while using the same connectors as the Coco 1 and 2's, actually connected the second joystick button (it was not connected on any of the previous Coco's). The FD-502 drives that Tandy sold were actually double sided 40 track drives (previous ones were usually 40 track single sided, although the earlier Coco 1 era ones were only 35 track single sided). With the proper cables, these work in IBM PC's and clones as 360K drives, and vice versa - a double density IBM style drive would work on the Coco as well. Even 80 track double density 3.5" drives worked fine (720K) although Tandy for some reason never sold these for the Coco 3 (although their OS-9 Level 2 operating supported them just fine). Most Analog RGB monitors (that worked on other such machines, such as Amigas or Atari ST's) could be re-cabled to work with the Coco 3, and the CM-8 could work on those other machines as well with different cables. Even some early PC monitors (NEC Multisync 1/2 and others) also worked with RGB analog (and had much better dot pitches for an even sharper picture than you are seeing on the CM-8). RGB-DOS was sold by Kenton Electronics to support their SCSI hard drive systems, and it's spiritual successor HDB-DOS still gets updates from time to time. The easter egg with CTRL-ALT-RESET is cool (there is a whole story behind that), and also served as a cold boot (unlike just RESET which is a warm boot). Regarding OS-9 - this multi-user, pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system has two main versions on the Color Computers - Level 1 (for Coco 1 or 2 with 64K of RAM), and Level 2 (Coco 3 / 128K required). Level 2 added extra memory support, multiple virtual terminal windows and a windowing system, and much, much more. The Touch Pad did come with a stylus (which worked better than a finger)... but it never was the best drawing tool. The X-Pad only worked on the Coco 1 - it required 12V from the cartridge connector, which was eliminated on the Coco 2 and 3 (they just used 5V instead of both). When you do your follow up video - it would be cool if you got a CocoSDC (SD card reader that emulates both floppy and hard drives) - much easier to get a lot of software available.

[@vintagegeek]

Hi Curtis, thank you SO much for this info!! I noticed after making the video that the FD-502 interface has a tiny toggle switch at the back of it (maybe that has to do with the hard drive system also?) Totally makes sense on the X-pad needing 12V...I'll have to pull out our CoCo 1 to try that out sometime (I think someone else said in the comments that the multi-pak adapter would also add the 12V and we do have one labeled that it's been modded for the CoCo 3. We also do have a CoCoSDC and I've used it with the CoCo2 but had not tried it yet with the 3...I just finished shooting the second video on this and covered some boxed CoCo3 games we had in the collection...really enjoyed using the system!

[@CurtisBoyle]

@@vintagegeek - Cool! Yes, the Multi-pak does add the 12 V (some older 3rd party hardware also required it - and Tandy's very first disk controllers needed it as well). The CocoSDC (especially if you have SDC Explorer installed) will make trying software on the 3 much easier (and fun!). Would love for you to try NitrOS9/EOU at some time and get your opinion on it as well - it's the successor to OS-9 Level II and is greatly sped up and expanded (and comes with dozens of full programs preinstalled).

[@joelavcoco]

The CoCo 3 has 2 completely different color sets for RGB vs. composite video. You'll notice that many graphical programs written for the CoCo 3 will ask whether you're using an RGB or composite monitor. They actually have 2 different sets of graphics (or at least palettes). This is why you see different colors on the CM-8 monitor from those that appear on the composite video output. The RGB out is straightforward. There are 6 bits of color information, with 2 bits each for red, green, and blue color components, for a total of 64 colors, any 16 of which can be displayed at a given time. There are still the same 6 bits for composite video, but they are interpreted differently by the display circuitry. Instead of mapping to R, G, and B, the bits map to something like the YUV color space, which is, or is very similar to, the native color space of NTSC video. This is confusing, but has some interesting implications. The CoCo 1 / 2 use artifact colors in PMODE 4 to get at least 2 more effective colors out of what is actually a 2-color video mode. The CoCo 3 can actually display many more artifact colors than that -- close to 256. These artifact colors are 'unofficial', but real. And they only show up over the composite video or RF outputs. And the user needs to figure out how to use these colors, as they aren't documented in any manual. Back in the day, RGB was the future, and it was a dramatic improvement over the graphics of the CoCo 1 / 2. The crisp 80 column text was great for word processing and other productivity apps. There were a few mentions and maybe 1 or 2 programs that did a little with extended artifact colors on the CoCo 3 in the late '80s. But for the most part, the potential of 8-bit artifacting was ignored in the CoCo 3's commercial lifetime. It was not until the late '00s that people figured out how to map digital images onto a 256 color palette that corresponded to the CoCo 3's full range of artifact colors at an effective resolution of 160x200. I made a quick slideshow that you can see on my YT channel showing this effect. In the summer of 2021, I started a discussion on Facebook that prompted the amazing Sockmaster to demo an improved technique for making artifact color pictures that preserves more perceived spatial resolution while also taking full advantage of artifact colors. The full graphical capabilities of the CoCo 3 have yet to be exploited, and much of the period software doesn't even begin to do it justice.

[@brianconley3772]

I had the CoCo 1, 2, and I remember counting down the days until to Color Computer 3 was released! I loved all of these computers, but the Color Computer 3 was an especially sweet system. I had both the touch pad and the speech cartridge. The speech cartridge was the only present I wanted for my 12th birthday, and I spent a lot of time playing around with that. I didn’t know about some of the other devices like the monitor or mice that were available, so it was great to see. I had a dot matrix printout of the Easter egg picture on my wall. I thought those guys were heroes and I wanted to grow up to work with computers like they did. :). This was such a great time to grow up and really get to mess around with computers and peripherals. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

[@edgardavid1653]

Criminally underrated channel. Quite an enjoyable video!

[@genetomblin2883]

Colorware had some great software that took advantage of the mouse and Hi rez adapter. The colorware softerware booted in OS9 to take advantage of the bells and whistles the OS brings to the table.

[@hammathguy3995]

I bought OS/9 when it very first came out. For my original Coco. It started out life as a 4k, Standard Basic machine. By time OS/9 came out I had upgraded it to 64k and Disk Basic. I had a ton of fun tinkering with that thing.

[@mopspear]

I'm really glad I found this channel. I think you make great stuff and I wish you the best.

[@SHONNER]

I was running OS-9 Level II along with Basic09 on my 512K CoCo 3.

[@Peremptor]

I remember seeing the coco3 on display in the RS store with the demo on showing a multitide of colors in high res... impressive for the time.

[@slowneutron6163]

I, too was a student of the CoCo II. Much more capable than I ever thought it would be. Not great, mind you. But good. Ran a BBS off of it for many years and actually downloaded my first digital picture with it....an small MC Escher dragon with it's tail in it's mouth. That was a big deal to be in the mid 80s. Anyway, great vid. Cheers!

[@supercompooper]

This was my machine as a kid. I made several cool games, drawing programs and even a nuclear power plant simulator with external interactive hardware 👍

[@freds690069]

I started with an odyssey2 then an Aquarius then a coco2 and all the cool peripherals and then a coco3 before going to PC in early 90s

[@NerdThingsAndMore]

Good video thanks

[@mmille10]

I used the Koala Pad on the Apple II and the Atari, and they both came with a stylus. I'd be surprised if the CoCo version didn't come with one. My memory is it performed pretty well with a stylus. It was nice seeing a piece of software that used OS9. I've heard of this OS for the CoCo for many years, but never seen it run on a CoCo. I saw a 16-bit version of OS9 run on a friend's 68000 machine many years ago. Some wonder what I'm talking about when I say that, since they think it only ran on the 6800. There was a port to the 68000. I've heard it described as a Unix-like OS. That's what I saw on my friend's computer. It reminded me a lot of an open source Unix-like OS I ran on my Atari STe back then, called MiNT. I was surprised seeing the disk interface card take up the cartridge slot (but given the other ports in the back, where else would it go?). When I was an Atari 8-bit user, I was quite used to using cartridge software (like Atari Basic, or the Atari Assembler) to access a disk drive.

[@genetomblin2883]

When you Plug in the floppy controller you also connect a ron in the adapter which has the extended color basic for a floppy system instead of a cassette system

[@joelavcoco]

One difference between the CoCo 3's RGB monitor and the CGA-type RGB monitors is that the CoCo 3's monitor is an _analog_ RGB monitor, while the others are digital. In this case, analog is better, since it allows you to display more colors. CGA/TGA digital monitors have 1 bit each for Red, Green, Blue, and Intensity, for 4 bits, resulting in 16 total colors. Those 16 colors are the only ones that can be displayed. There is a fixed CGA palette. The CoCo 3, on the other hand, can display any 16 out of a palette of 64 total colors. The Commodore Amiga, which uses a compatible analog RGB monitor (I've used an Amiga on my CoCo 3's CM-8 with a homemade adapter) can display a palette of 4096 colors. Because you can select a palette from 64 different colors, you can more accurately represent the intended colors in any given image. So 16-color graphics on a CoCo 3 can look much better than the 16 colors of TGA. The CoCo 3's graphics are actually closer to EGA.

[@1stClazzKingz]

I remember getting this computer cause we couldn't afford the more expensive computers like Apple, IBM, and the more expensive Tandy computers

[@TheSulross]

those 1980s speech synthesizers are the bees knees maybe in future video can cover the CoCo3 GIME chip, especially it's page mapping MMU - and how OS9 was upgraded to take advantage of it. I my book the CoCo3 had the most sophisticated and cool MMU of all the 8-bit era computers

[@joshhiner729]

Great video. I didnt know the coco3 was backward compatible with coco1 and 2 cartridges. I also had a coco2 but sold it 20 years ago. Id get a coco3 these days. Thanks for the wonderful videos as usual.

[@TechRyze]

Looks like the composite output is being captured here. I expect that it'd be possible to convert the RGB output to HDMI, possibly via SCART, then capture that using one of the many HDMI capture devices.

[@Josh-le6lu]

I bought one for $60 minus the price of some games and controllers from a woman who is a former RadioShack employee that sold and worked on the TRS-80 color computers.

[@WalterGreenIII]

BTW. There is a wonderful 2048k upgrade from Cloud 9 Tech, and others. My CoCo3 three had the 2048k and the 6309 (rather than a 6809) and a PS/2 keyboard adapter, all nice items to have. If you get cloud 9 to upgrade your computer to 2048k and a 6309 they also have a "Protector" to help protect the 6309 from damages. My coco3 runs great. I only have one problem... I am looking for a program to test all 2048k or memory.

[@gregferguson7737]

I also vouch for Cloud9. I also have 2048K and 6309 from them, runs great

[@davidhunter9896]

The X-PAD doesn't work with the CoCo 2 or CoCo 3 directly. It needs +/-12V which are not on the cartridge ports of the later CoCos. You can run it through the MultiPak Interface which has power supplies for the +/- 12V.

[@MarquisDeSang]

My favorite game on the Coco3 was Rad Warrior or Sacred Armor of Antiriad. As a kid I wanted those disk drive so much. I could never save the type in games.

[@mopspear]

Nice PFP. I had a Lawn Mower Man movie cardboard display in my house for a few weeks back in the day.

[@MarquisDeSang]

@@mopspear I would kill for that sacred artifact. lol

[@BigSleepyOx]

Grrr... I was just waiting for you to do "Shall we play a game?" with the speech synthesizer. lol Good vid though. :)

[@latronix-omnigenus]

I miss Radio Shack 😢

[@perfectionbox]

"Hey you upgraded your Coco to 512K." "Yeah, it's okay I guess." "Why so glum?" "I just realized... the CPU is really slow."

[@dave4shmups]

Fantastic video on the Color Computer 3! I wonder if there was any office software released for it?

[@KF7PSM]

I wonder if the Speech Cartridge used the Votrax Phoneme IC??

[@WC0125]

I thought it used the GI SPO256-AL2 but don't remember. I built my own for the TRS Co-Co using the GI chip. It worked...OK...got me an A in my digital circuits class in college regardless. I wish I'd have have not let the professor keep it. Maybe that is what gave me the A?

[@larryaugsburger8452]

I was expecting to hear more about the enhanced capabilities. Was it just keyboard, composite port, and rgb port? No changes to cpu/clock or graphics?

[@WalterGreenIII]

There was originally a stylist. At least there was with My Koala Pad. X-Pads died very easily, I have had 2 my first one died, and I have one now that is dead.

[@WalterGreenIII]

I do not know if the x-pad is compatible with the color computer 3, first there is a difference in the Color Computer 1 and 2 cartridge ports.In the original CoCo1, pins 1 and 2 supplied -12vdc and +12vdc, when they created the disk cartridge for the coco2 it did not need +12vdc or -12vdc, neither did any cartridges made at that time, so the power supply inside the coco2 does not has a transformer with less power taps, and a power supply with less filtering and voltages, because it no longer produces the unneeded voltages, saved on space and weight. The coco3 continued along the same lines and also did not supply -12vdc or +12vdc. If using a coco1 disk controller with a coco3, you either had to add a power supply and modify the controller to accept power from that supply or purchase a multi-pak. Most people wanted a multi-pak any way because it allowed you to add serial ports and disk controllers as well as other cartridge based devices at the same time. I am thinking maybe by x-pad works but I do not have a multi-pak to test the -12vdc/+12vdc theory. I am however using an "CoCo SDC", and want to get a disk controller speech pak and orchestr-90 and a rs232 serial pak as well as other cartridges.

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

what software? Desk Mate, how did it look?

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

Which 1000 model do you have?

[@SuperMoleRetro]

Where can you get the adapter for the CoCo 3 to use other monitors?

[@CoCoNutBob]

Pretty much have to make your own these days. For the RGB output from the CoCo, find an old PC with parallel printer port and just cut off about 5 inches of that internal ribbon cable with the 10-pin header. The other end of the cable varies, but the Commodore monitors used the same 6 pin din plug as the CoCo joysticks, commonly available even today. I'm literally making one right now lol.

[@gregferguson7737]

I used RGB->Switcharoo->SCART->HDMI. So Switcharoo (from Australia) and a separate SCART to HDMI adapter.

[@joelavcoco]

Color Computer Artist is not the most impressive paint program for the CoCo 3, and doesn't really do justice to the CoCo 3's graphics capabilities. CoCo Max 3 is a MacPaint-inspired graphics program for the CoCo 3 that is extremely impressive. The original program came with its own modified Tandy high-res joystick interface that did away with the cassette cable and doubled as a copy protection dongle. I believe that a patched version can be found in the usual online repository for CoCo software. It works without a high-res interface. Not sure if it works with a stock Tandy high-res interface. Another program called Color Max 3 was a well-known competitor to CoCo Max 3, and it can be found in the same place.

[@davidkroeker1821]

Yes, I was going to suggest Coco Max 3 as well. It's much better. And yes, later versions of CoCo Max 3 work fine with the stock Tandy hi-res joystick interface. I used both CoCo Max 3 and Max-10 with the stock Tandy hi-res interface back in the day.

[@CurtisBoyle]

Color Max 3 came in two flavours - regular (128K) and Color Max Deluxe, which required 512K and (in my opinion) was more advanced than Coco Max 3. Both of these worked with the regular Radio Shack High Resolution joystick interface as well, not required a special 3rd party add on.

[@johngriffith9598]

I had a graphic X pad back in the day. They are very finicky and not very reliable. This first one I got didn't work at all and the store had to search around to find another. The second one did work and was fun to play with for a while. I'm not sure if any of the commercial art programs worked with it or not. I never went much beyond the demo program. I think I may have tweaked it a little to add some features. As far as using it on the Coco 3, you need to use a multipak interface. You might even need that for Coco 2 use. The reason being is the voltage on the cartridge port changed. There was, if I remember correctly, 12V on the Coco 1, which is what the Xpad was developed for. I'm not sure on the Coco 2, but I know the Coco 3 did not have 12V on the port. The multipak however, does have 12v. Give that a try. Hopefully it is in working order.

[@EddieSheffield]

I had (and still have) the X Pad too. You're right, it wasn't great. Mine was very non-linear down one side - there was a template that came with it and if I put the pen in the 0,0 location it would never read 0 for X, but as I ran it down the edge it would drift and finally be 0 in the bottom left corner. There are a couple of adjustment pots under stickers on the bottom that I was able to use to improve it, but it never would straighten out entirely. I remember opening the thing up and there's not much inside other than the PCB with horizontal and vertical traces and a bunch of resistors across the edges. I always suspected that the resistors may be low quality causing in the bow. Now that I'm getting into this retro stuff more maybe I'll look into it again, might try replacing with higher quality / tighter tolerance resistors. And a warning on the multipak - there are three versions of it and only the last is compatible out of the box with the coco 3. The earliest one needs a PAL chip upgrade and the second needs a bit of surgery (and maybe a PAL as well?) I think there's some address shadowing that happens in those two that didn't matter in the 1 and 2, but on the 3 it overlaps some of the GIME registers maybe?

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

It's not HAL!

[@ms-ex8em]

hello - im trying to run tandy coo emulator on winuae - called dream102 - please help how do i make it work ? the roms - i got dragon 32 to work but not the coco please help thanks............