Extended Release Oxalic Acid Field Trials Part 2

[@researcherAmateur]

Thanks for the video with the info. From what I noticed so far.. the sponge is too thick to use between frames and the cardboard is too long to be easy to apply. The amount.. the grams are not important at all. The recipe is 1/1 per pound, grams, kilogram. But it doesn't matter how much it absorbs. I make mine from a cloth used for floor washing. It's thinner and absorbs less.. l make strips that are long only for one side (like apivar) so it's easy to apply.. much easier than those long cardboard ones.. and bees have no problem to pass around them when you put them between brood frames (all this is important for the treatment). The best efficacy i had is with 2 right above the entrance.. because bees like to go up as soon they enter the hives, and 2 between brood frames. You can put 2 more if you like to get close to the amount of strips of those treatments. I do this tests a long time and this is my opinion so far.lf you have a summer dearth when the queen slows her laying.. i tried using them then and at that time it will work like a strong treatment and clean up a big number of varroa. But the best work it does when you put them the same time you cage queens for brood break. 4 strips can totally clean the hives in 25 days and be removed when you release the queens

[@coincollector315]

I like the mite wash set up and might try that this next spring.

[@user-mi4fj9rq7v]

Great presentation Greg Rogers. I learned lots. Thanks Bob for hosting this conversation.

[@latifiomar5615]

@@user-mi4fj9rq7v Good morning please I don't understand English and would like to know the ingredients and preparation of the treatment and the degree of effectiveness. Thanks a lot.

[@nancynolton6079]

Already been singing this tune and hives prove the successfulness! Thanks for the videos and data results. Looking forward to Greg and Bob's presentations at the Expo!

[@jonclemons1421]

Lots of great information. I've heard of the OA/Glycerine pads use and even bought the stuff to make them. You convinced me to go ahead with it. Thanks.

[@altaylor293]

Good presentations by Greg. Thanks Bob for sharing this conversation.

[@goingsouth01]

Thanks for doing these talks. Saw Gregs presentation this summer at NC state meeting and glad to have it on video to watch again. Great info.

[@mikesbeesllc]

Thanks Greg & Bob for this information. We have debated producing EZ-OX® Pad/Strips. We could make them much more affordable but we have to weigh the cost of EPA registration plus registration cost in every State they are sold in vs sales. Sales=how many beekeepers will support a registered product.

[@martinr6107]

Thank you both for another very informative video. A great investment for the time spent.

[@gregcundiff]

A lot of great information. Thanks to both Bob and Greg for sharing!

[@latifiomar5615]

@@gregcundiff Good morning please I don't understand English and would like to know the ingredients and preparation of the treatment and the degree of effectiveness. Thanks a lot.

[@KobeApiaries]

Hi Bob! There is research that shows that thymol stays in wax longer than we have previously thought. There is a research study titled "Presence, persistence and distribution of thymol in honeybees and beehive compartments by high resolution mass spectrometry" by Lorena Manzano Sanchez et al that was published in 2021. They found that: "With regard to thymol dissipation and persistence, beeswax and honey were the highest reservoir of thymol, with only 17% and 15% of dissipation in wax and honey, respectively, at the end of the study (in three months). Interestingly, residues of thymol decreased significantly in bee brood after the treatment, with dissipation levels higher than 90%. In adult bees 69% of thymol was dissipated in three months." This means that we could still see some of those syngerstic effects months later that you have presented previously.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thank you for the information. I will look up the study.

[@robinmartin4464]

Thanks Mr. Binnie. Thanks Mr. Rogers. Good information, great video!

[@latifiomar5615]

@@robinmartin4464 Good morning please I don't understand English and would like to know the ingredients and preparation of the treatment and the degree of effectiveness. Thanks a lot.

[@robinmartin4464]

@@latifiomar5615 50% Oxalic Acid, 50% Plant based Glycerin soaked into a Celulose medium. It seems to keep the Mites from expanding their numbers.

[@vulyk]

Thanks for the useful information!

[@ThatBeeMan]

I would tend to agree with Bob's assessment on the likelihood of resistance to oxalic acid to develop, however, I hear caution in his voice and that's for good reason. We always need to use these treatments responsibly and that includes the rotation of treatments.

[@NancyDow-xp5sl]

Very interesting. The question that would like to see tested is; narrow formic pro strips. It’s seems that spreading the treatment out simply creates more contact opportunities. Love this channel. Keep up the good work.

[@TennesseeTim73]

Is it odd, seeing the title last weeks video was a part 1, I didn’t want to watch until I could listen to it all back to back, such great information you are sharing!!!

[@SourwoodFarm]

I can verify that Greg is being truthful in his presentation. I visited mid-august and his hives looked very strong and healthy. He has a great system down. We did mite washes in one yard and I counted the mites on the 33 mite wash colony. He is not cherry picking data or test colonies to get rosy numbers.

[@robertcampbell943]

Wow, what a great video on annual mite treatments. I've been experimenting with OAE pads for a couple of years as per Randy Oliver's work. Dr Tarpy's explanation of his experiments explains so much and makes so much sense. Thanks Bob for sharing this information!

[@MagnoliaSpringsFarm19]

Good morning, Bob and crew!!! This is great info. Thanks for sharing!

[@mikeadelmund161]

Washington State 2000 ft 20 hives treatments were, fall oxalic vapor four times week apart, spring formic pads one pad method, June oxalic extended pads removed in august and treated with two rounds of Apigaurd ten days apart. 100% survival over winter.

[@jhulin9018]

Outstanding! Very useful information.

[@OklahomaBeekeeper]

I really enjoyed these 2 videos, Bob and Greg. I appreciate you two sharing this information, it's going to definitely change my treatment procedures. Looking forward to seeing you Bob in February in Tulsa.

[@jhulin9018]

Bob, From watching both videos here are my key takeaways: (1) having 4 smaller (vs 2 larger) strips of OAE is twice as effective. (2) Treating 3 times of year yields best/consistent result with almost no annual losses...long periods of low mites doesn't allow associated diseases to take hold. (3) OAE is really only effective at keeping mites low but not necessarily good at knocking them down. (4) Spring mite check is virtually useless due to initial large brood pattern (mites are hiding under brood caps ready to explode population). (5) Need to treat in spring even if mite count is low to keep mites low during the rapid brood growth period and thus during associated rapid mite growth period.

[@bobbinnie9872]

I would say that's about right except one addition. I will still be spot checking our mite counts in spring because if I see even a few I know we have a problem that needs immediate attention.

[@jimydee]

Thanks Bob. Great info. Jim

[@kathyhathaway8823]

Thank you both . This is great information an for a treatment plan . Thanks

[@Bijdenatuur]

Great stuff. Completely in line with mite biology and my personal findings. I will not treat because I do VSH breeding (in the Netherlands) but in stead of starting mite washes in march I wil start do mite washes from june and then every 3 weeks.

[@sunshineapriaries]

We have been making these strips with 50pt chip board for 1.5 years now and find they maintain low mite levels consistently. 500 mil vegetable glycerin 500grams of OA Dehydrate for 42 strips. Randy Oliver formula.

[@Xray.71]

Have you heard about using paper straws? 10g per straw, 10 per colony. Supposedly there’s better contact? Straws lay across the top and the straws hold the O/A mix. I’ve always used the strips but trying the straws now

[@sunshineapriaries]

@@Xray.71 no never heard of that we only use what’s been proven. Who came up with the straws?

[@andywhite9932]

Have you compared the chip board with the Swedish sponge? I thought Randy Oliver did that comp and found better results with the Swedish sponge?

[@Xray.71]

⁠@@sunshineapriariessomeone in my local bee group…. 5 grams of each per straw. He claimed it knocked down mites faster than the pads….. I’m a sucker and trying it….. what is a chip board? I know what Swedish sponges are….

[@lester3836]

Thanks for the great info

[@thehappycamper5575]

Thanks for sharing

[@Cody-fc5br]

Good stuff, thanks Bob

[@Drewjober]

I got all 50 hives thru winter with formic in august, and OA in late fall 23, i want to try the veroxan

[@aileensmith3062]

WOW and another great video ................................................ as expected! Agree 100% and switching treatments and not skipping any either. When treating our animals for worms. We switch, seems like you use the same treatment and they seem to develop an immunity of sorts?

[@framcesmoore]

Ha Bob Good to see u both was looking forward to this it was great thanks so much for doing it. You said u were talking at the expo what are u talking on this next time. I donot get to go but I did buy the video from last year and it was great. The veroxan u and Greg talked about cost so very much 79-89.00 u cant do a lot of hives either if u have double deeps u might get 7 hives I hope it does knock them down. If a comercial beekeeper cant afford that I have 48 hives just the cost for a small person like me, well it just hurts. anyway I enjoyed this always do. I look forward to the next. hope u and your family have a very blessed week.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Hi Frances. I'll speaking about queens and tips on expanding numbers.

[@framcesmoore]

@@bobbinnie9872 cool going to buy the video again. hope u have a blessed week

[@DavidHansen-q2x]

Great talk on varroa treatment. It's a LOT of treatment. Formic Pro,Thymol, OA both vapor, extended release and dribble. Then there's the whole variety of synthetic treatments. I live in New England, central CT to be more exact and fitting all these treatments in can be difficult. What about forced brood breaks by caging the queen to provide a window for a OA Vaporization. In CT there's usually a dearth period from say the 3rd week of July until mid to late August when some queens will slow down or stop laying all together. Seems like this would be an ideal time to try it. I know this is a practice widely used in Europe but I don't hear much talk about it here in the US

[@robertdemers5125]

I was out hunting this morning Bob, so Good Morning and Good Evening. Hope you and the crew are having a great fall.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Good evening!

[@TheHobbyShooter]

I loved both videos. There's a lot of great and useful information in them. This past spring, someone in our beekeeping association asked beekeepers who've had regular success overwintering their hives what their IPM was and the answer I chose to adopt is exactly what Greg suggested. OAV in the winter, Swedish sponges starting spring and Apiguard or Formic Pro in August (before winter bees are emerging). The part in these two videos I was most interested in was Greg's comments about Varroxsan. It seems most of what I hear is just talk about how to apply it, yet some youtubers have gone as far as calling it a "game changer" before even putting it to the test. I haven't come across anyone evaluating the manufacturer's claim of being able to reduce high mite loads (first exception being one of the comments I just read in response to this video). I'll keep an eye out for the results of Auburn University's study with great interest. Thanks, Bob and thanks, Greg!

[@bobbinnie9872]

I believe Lewis Bartlett from UGA is going to have me share those findings. Stay tuned.

[@Swampsquash]

Randy talked alot about why you want to start with low mite levels. He found it takes over a month for the OAE pads to start to bring the counts down. So you don't want the mite numbers getting too high, before the pads start to work

[@ROD_OF_IRON]

Thanks again for excellent information transmitted here in video. Ok Bob on your opinion what is the best time of year to utilize this treatment I have your stock of bees and are basically in the same region gearing my honey produced for sourwood flow

[@bobbinnie9872]

Next year, and depending on location, I'm going to utilize it from late April to early May, until August 1. For me this would be after nuc production, and as honey supers go on, until Sourwood harvest and thymol treatment time.

[@glennsnaturalhoney4571]

I remember when Roundup first came out we were told that due to its mode of action plants would never develop resistance. List of resistant weeds increases every year. Rotate!

[@davidgeyer3988]

That was a synthetic, I believe.

[@glennsnaturalhoney4571]

@davidgeyer3988 lots of examples of "natural" pesticides that pests have developed resistance to. Unless it kills 100% everything, resistance is possible.

[@jaumecambra9648]

Great contribution to Varroa control. Among other reasons, oxalic acid or formic do not go to the beeswax, so the contact with mites is relatively short. Not like other miticides (pyretroids, etc) which accumulate amounts in beeswax and possibly they are in permanent contact with mites. Is not the case of oxalic or formic. Think about. Thanks again!!.

[@KamieMcglynn]

The challenge with VarroxSan is the current label says outside the honey flow but can be used during nectar flow if required?

[@jerrydegroot1573]

Interesting with the strips cut into 4, one would think if you cut them into 8 it would even be better? Thanks for the testing.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Seems logical.

[@apic.algerie]

شكرا على المعلومات والمجهودات المبذولة و القيمة .التحكم في ابقاء نسب حلم الفاروا منخفضة هو الهدف المطلوب .ننتظر نتائج الدراسات المقبلة . شكرا للجميع

[@latifiomar5615]

السلام عليكم أخي لو تكرمت بخلاصة عن المقادير و نسبة فعالية الدواء لأني للاسف لا أفهم الانجليزية و جزاك الله خيرا

[@sabri0388]

الأمريكي يمدهالك و العربي مستحيل ههههه

[@warrenbehnke2734]

Great video. I run single deep brood boxes. How many narrow strips would you use for single brood box?

[@bobbinnie9872]

I used four on singles this summer and it seemed to work well.

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

I've wondered, hives that chew on pads, are they also chewing on mites?

[@bobbinnie9872]

🤔

[@armymutt25A]

Excellent video. The Heroes to Hives class said not to treat if the count is 2% or below. It's sounding like treating at 2% is recommended. Is there a threshold for not treating and if not, then why bother testing before treating?

[@bobbinnie9872]

It's nice to know where you stand in case you have to be more aggresive.

[@armymutt25A]

@@bobbinnie9872 Ok, that's what I was wondering. It's more of a monitoring thing than a treatment decision thing.

[@DonnaLeRowKy]

Does this fall treatment prevent fall honey harvesting and if spring treatment is needed regardless of the counts is it necessary to count?

[@bobbinnie9872]

It's OK to use with supers on and doesn't prevent a fall harvest. I will still do spring mite counts because if I see many numbers at all it tells me I need to be aggressive with treating.

[@CornerstoneHoneyBees]

Do you know of any studies being done in the south (Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, or Florida)? I am most interested in the timing differences. Fwiw, I (located in Texas) usually do my summer treatment immediately after I pull my "spring supers" ~ July 4th.

[@bobbinnie9872]

I'm not aware of studies in those areas like this one. Timing isn't super crucial. I will be putting ours on after making splits and nucs and before putting on spring honey supers.

[@CornerstoneHoneyBees]

@@bobbinnie9872 Makes sense. For those of us in Central/South Texas - that pretty much means mid to late March.

[@Draintheswamp2024]

perhaps the 4 strip covers more of the brood nest, basically protecting it from mites.

[@smitt76]

I have two questions about this treatment: 1. What is the trigger/rationale for the mid-may application? How do I know when to apply if I’m in a different region like the Northeast 2: How far ahead of time can I (hypothetically) prepare these strips?What is the shelf life?

[@lt35phila]

Use within 2 weeks

[@researcherAmateur]

I listened to Randy Oliver talking how it degrades fast a couple of times... But it's now two years that I prepare around a 1000 strips in May, keep them in plastic containers in the bottom of my fridges where l keep bee stuff and use all year.. those same strips with the same results. Write now I have strips in that were made months ago. I don't know what else to say but the treatment works this last two years and I plan to continue to cook one batch for the entire year

[@bobbinnie9872]

In our area, mid May to August 1 represents the period that honey supers are on. South of here the time could be earlier.

[@MikeChamplin]

Just trying to clarify Greg's mite sampling approach.... He takes the 1/2 cup sample of bees and dumps them directly into the ziplock bag with a splash of soapy water - or - he swishes the bee sample in the Easy-Check w/soapy water and then dumps that whole mix into the ziplock baggie? Thanks

[@bobbinnie9872]

He is dumping the i/2 cup directly into the baggie which already has some solution in it. I have also seen people use a plastic cups with a cap to do the same thing.

[@charlesmaurer6214]

Just a question, Has anyone tried or tested mixing a mite treatment in an oil for small hive beetle traps. Would likewise be slow release but simplify treatments. Note I have treated a different type of mites in pets before with mineral oil so was curious if it was ever tried. The biggest issue I could see is if it would repel the beetles from the traps.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Someone probably has but I don't know for sure.

[@dandahlberg4452]

Spring 2024 overwinter results: late Dec 2023 2 4-g.OAV Tx, OG pads 50 per pad two strips, Aug 1 Tx Apiguard...33 hives 100% survival. Same in 2023 with 26 hives except Aug Tx was Apivar.

[@chrisbeck2197]

Bob You showed (in your videos) that you used a extended release Oxalic acid strip in some of your hives this year. What product was that?

[@bobbinnie9872]

We made our own using Randy Oliver's recipe as can be found on his website Scientificbeekeeping.com

[@carykight7053]

What size are the strips that y’all use? And where do you get them from?

[@bobbinnie9872]

We use standard Swedish dish towels cut into quarters. I think it ends up around 2 x 7 inch.

[@carykight7053]

@ thank you Mr. Bob.

[@hootervillehoneybees8664]

What do we do when the virus is gone it's not issue anymore . Mites are not my problem I've nailed that down. Now I have 10 to 20% of my operation trying to swarm and I'm in flow after flow situation .. they fill in their own dead spots. How do you manage it takes a week to get thru the yards ?

[@sabri0388]

❤❤❤

[@CornerstoneHoneyBees]

Also - are there any registered products that are made HERE, in the US?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Yes. There is a new product called "VarroxSan".

[@CornerstoneHoneyBees]

@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you. UG... at $5/treatment ($1.25/strip x 4 strips per brood box) that seems awfully expensive. Really wish we could just make our own....

[@andrewsmyth6027]

does the detergent kill the 300 bees???

[@bobbinnie9872]

Yes, very fast.

[@andrewsmyth6027]

@@bobbinnie9872 i use the sugar shake method , maybe not as precise , but my thinking is that we are suppossed to be helping the bees nothindering their activity, 2 to 3 checks is 600 to 900 bees lost,, for no purpose,, just my opinion..

[@carloscrenz9433]

Hola Bob que lindo como trabaja sus colmenas lo admiro mucho🇦🇷🐝👍👍👍👏👏

[@bobbinnie9872]

Gracias.

[@carloscrenz9433]

@bobbinnie9872 👍yo también tengo colmenas adoró a la Abeja 🐝🐝👍

[@kennethwiggins7362]

Mr Bonnie do you sell these stripes

[@bobbinnie9872]

The ones in this video were home made. We sell VarroxSan in our store which are similar.

[@davidgalloway3726]

Do the strips have to be rewet periodically?

[@bobbinnie9872]

No. They are good for two or three months.

[@beebob1279]

Amira’s didn’t work the two times I used it. I’ll keep with oxalic

[@daviddowen3887]

If 4 strips(2sponges cut in half) was better then 2, would 8 (2 sponges cut in quarters) be even better?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Seems logical.

[@andywhite9932]

If we are applying these strips when brood is already present and it works for about 75 days, why not put strips on in late January or mid February then put fresh strips in 3 months later

[@Xray.71]

From what I understand, you want to alternate treatment…. Apiguard would be good prior to the flow if it’s warmer

[@andywhite9932]

I understand the alternating of treatments but the scientist believe that mites will not develop resistance to Oxalic

[@researcherAmateur]

Since 83 -84 (not sure) I used only formic until oxalic arrived. Now I use only those two. I never had resistance on either of them. Actually now I don't use vaporizations anymore.. very rarely a dribble in the winter and my only treatment is glycerin strips for everything. Even when l cage queens for induced brood breaks I put strips the same day l cage queens. Works beautiful.. by the time all brood emerges I can't find a mite on the bottom trays. It takes 20-25 days to completely clean the hives

[@bobbinnie9872]

This could be feasible depending on location. I'm leery of installing them in a way that a tight winter cluster would surround them. 🤔

[@researcherAmateur]

@@bobbinnie9872 yes, we need to complete this winter's tests and see how it works in different conditions. The material l use gets pretty chewed up when they start in January. So for the test l made some strips from another one too.. to be able to compare... but I have my doubts about it harming the queens. By now we would have noticed something

[@aaronparis4714]

Are you guys allowed to use vapour ?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Yes, it is legal.

[@MFFarhod]

Hello Bob can it be harmful for bees i mean oxalic towels

[@bobbinnie9872]

So far I haven't heard of any problems.

[@mustafabal5357]

Türkiye Rize’den yazıyorum. 11/11/2024 tarihinde Arılarımız Erzurum’da yavrusuz dönemde Oksalik sıvı damlatma yaptım çok güzel varrova döktü. Bugün yine tepsileri kontrol ettiğimde yine de varrova döktüğünü gördüm.

[@Xray.71]

Bob are you going to be selling your queens next year?

[@bobbinnie9872]

At this time I am not planning on it.

[@Xray.71]

@@bobbinnie9872ok

[@donaldbarth3404]

I find it strange that we can't use Swedish sponges because the EPA won't approve their use. They said the sponges may contain a fire retardant which could get into honey. Now a product from a foreign country is approve although the formula is exactly the same as out researchers have tried on the Swedish sponges. I am sure the price is not worth the money. Who approved their substrate, cardboard or something and certified that it doesn't have fire retardant or some other chemical that EPA would not allow. I haven't heard a word on this subject and suspect this whole mess is a form of corruption on EPAs part. But who am I, just a Beekeeper trying to save my bees.

[@drliptak1]

I have used VarroxSan and was also curious about their claims as a knockdown treatment (their literature states it has a rapid knock down of 96.8% in the first few days of treatment and then acts for 56 days or three Varroa lifecycles after which the strips should be removed). I used it in four hives with very high mite counts (colonies that had no IPM program). I mite tested after 5-7 days of treatment and found a significant knockdown in all four hives ( in some by more than half). I would like to try this in a larger setting at different times of the year here since we really have no broodless period. I am a bit concerned with the delivery system of VarroxSan. In some of the colonies, the bees will "tear" the strip and remove it (instead of propolizing like the pads) somewhat quickly. This obviously will have an effect on treatment efficacy. In our climate, the strips dry out pretty rapidly so I wonder about their toxicity to mites if they dry out rapidly (they state that it works through two complete brood cycles). Keep in mind, the package contains 60 strips, so you may only be able to treat 15 or so colonies per pack (@ roughly 60 cents per strip) so it is costly. I agree with Bob that the bees look healthier and more robust after using this treatment (I employed the pads/thymol/OA vapor as my IPM this season). Great video. Thanks for taking me to see him speak last spring.