Extended Snare Wires (And Horizontal Tension) Used In Vintage Snare Designs

[@DrummerRIP]

Outstanding Joel! I've been a Roger's guy about the last 4 years. Even tho I relate to the Dynasonic side, I so appreciate all the deep tiny details/information you've provided from another brand. I truly dig the horizontal snare systems & I look forward to your vids! I've been playing 23 years & there is still SO MUCH to learn. Keep up the great work! 10 out of 10! TY Joel

[@theswime945]

Love it. Mastercrafts have always been my favourite for this reason. The physics make sense to me. I also imagine (totally untested in any meaningful way) less of any choke, however negligable, on the reso head with this system. Really enjoy your posts mate, thanks. Keep them coming. Cheers.

[@drumdotpizza]

Tama's extended wire/roller bed system is my absolute favorite! Glad to see I am not alone. Thanks for chiming in!

[@harisk1]

I don't know what you have studied but you sir are an engineer by nature. Thanks for explaining to us mortals how our beloved instrument sounds like it does.🙂

[@drumdotpizza]

Thank you for the kind words!! I'm actually an engineer! Not just an audio engineer (which I am), but I actually design recording equipment and have designed a few drum-related devices as well that I would very much like to see the light of day soon. Hoping to grow this channel enough to be able to approach a few companies to make some of these ideas a reality beyond my own prototypes. But yes, I am an engineer! Thanks again for being here and chiming in!

[@dave_sanderson]

That explains SO MUCH

[@ardethcain18]

Another great vid Joel ! Ya know, Ive built, cut , shaved, changed bearing edges, with / without reinforcement rings, wood, metal, plastic and different strainers. "The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat" are an under statement. LOL... One time I embarked on a complete re-mod of a snare for a friend of mine. Kind of a joint idea between the two of us. It sounded like crap! LOL. In jest… I invoked the immortal words of John Belushi from the movie Animal House…, “Hey, ya F’d up… you trusted us” We laughed our selves to tears for about 10 minutes. However, honestly, I just keep defaulting to the Ludwig Super Sensitive... Especially the early models where you can adjust each snare strand individually. Two points of interest I think need mentioning here. 1) unfortunately these have become excessively expensive, and 2) I feel a lot of drummers can't get their head around the the early model Ludwig Super Sensitive strand and strainer engineering. Hey... did you know the original Ludwig Super Sensitive had snare wires on the underside of the top head? Keep up the great work !

[@wjreid12]

I've loved the Rogers Dynasonic since the mid-60s. Now, thanks to this video, I better understand why.

[@drumdotpizza]

The short length of the Dyna's wires (even shorter than 'normal' wires) coupled with the horizontal tension of the design (and the uber shallow beds) makes for an incredibly articulate, dynamically responsive design. If you want crisp there isn't a design that will deliver better than a Dyna-sonic!

[@jonashellborg8320]

Love the extended, horizontal tension sound. Full, I hear more drum vs wires. I try to achieve this sound on a regular modern design by keeping the wire tension as low as I can whilst still getting a decent response. With the horizontal tension design that’s not needed and I bet I can tune the snare drum like a low tom, something I love to do if I don’t use snare wires, as tight wires on a loose snare side head sounds bad. Very interesting episode!

[@Hummis420]

Fantastic video as always! I just purchased an 8x14 Mapex pre-Orion line snare from the 80s with what looks to be an extended snare bed. I’ve never used one and I’ve been intimidated but this was extremely helpful. Thanks brother!

[@drumdotpizza]

Glad to help!

[@williamfotiou7577]

I was never a fan of any snare deeper than a 6.5, but that drum is outstandingly throaty, very sensitive, and not rings. Great job Joel. I have a wood Dynasonic that I love, it’s a little finicky but oh well. Always wanted a Buddy model WFL!

[@dingerjunkie]

I definitely picked up an imbalance/overring from the underside head...possibly from tuning challenges with the beds or from the "choking" of the snares/straps. The result was that the extended-snares unit sounded both fuller and "drier" at the same time.

[@dingerjunkie]

Follow-on question. I'm willing to tinker/frankenstein drums, and I'm considering purchase of an extended-snare hardware setup for a project now. I see Worldmax and Pearl have contemporary stuff available, though the Pearl stuff is designed to bolt to their free-floater rig rather higher on a shell. Do you think finding vintage setups like the Tama rig would be substantially better. Any setups from various brands you'd recommend seeking out outside of Tama's?

[@TomCawoski]

Very interesting video. Although I've been playing drums for nearly 50 years, I can't say that I can remember playing a snare with extended snare wires. I had a friend who had a dynasonic but I don't remember ever trying to play it. Thanks for sharing Joel!!!

[@drumdotpizza]

If you have ever played a 'parallel action' snare drum (Pearl Jupiter, Ludwig Super Sensitive, Yamaha 000 series, Tama King Beat, etc.) then you have played extended wire drum. As for the Dynasonic, it is a horizontal tension drum, but its wires are actually shorter than common wires for 14" drums because of the design of the entire pre-tensioned snare wire carriage use on that drum. I'm actually not a huge fan of the Dynasonic, perhaps for this reason.. its shorter wires make its response a bit too crisp for general use (though AMAZING when you want total articulation!). Extended wires really make me smile! Thanks for all your comments!! I'm so glad you're here.

[@sergioponti8902]

Another great video! I'm a fan of these old Tama snares and of Tama snares in general. I have three Imperialstar snares from the early '80s: a Kingbeat, a Mastercraft and a Powerline. All killer!

[@doublea7054]

Great video! One of my favorite snares is a vintage Pearl professional series (DX) 6.5x14" chrome steel shell with extended snare wires. The wires can get a lot of "crosstalk" from hitting the other drums but it makes up for it in sound and feel. It has a fat sound and feel to it that will make ya smile.

[@deaterk]

I had that snare as well. First professional grade instrument I bought (1985) used it heavily for 15 years, then sold it…regretted it ever since.

[@claudeabraham2347]

I love extended snares. I have 3 snare drums with extended wires. A Fibes 1978 SFT690 fiberglass 5X14. Ludwig 1979 Coliseum maple 8X14. Pearl 1993 MLX 6 ply maple 6.5X14. I have 1 drum with standard snare wires, a Ludwig 1968 supraphonic 400, 5X14 metal shell. Good sound, but the extended snares are just unbeatable.

[@dmitryshkolnik5233]

I guess that over the course of time all (most) manufacturers came to know that people don't appreciate bulky and even sometimes grotesque designs of 80's era. And while I personally don't appreciate unnecessary over-engineering, what I don't appreciate even more is unnecessary over simplification. today everything is made to be as simple as it goes, which is not a bad thing by itself, but only in case it does not mess up performance of a thing (relates to a lot of things, not only drums). the way I personally prefer things to be is first try to get max performance and then learn how to use the thing the easiest way possible. rather than the second way: make the thing ase simple to use as you can and than and only then try to max out the performance. By the way the snares sound KILLER big time! Thanks as always!

[@drumdotpizza]

Well said! I'll go for sound over simplicity any day (well... so long as it's not ridiculously cumbersome, but few extended wire designs were ever that cumbersome and fiddly).

[@diepadda]

Great video. I’ve got a Pearl Free Floater Brass that also has extended snare wires. Sounds amazing.

[@constantinecymbalsusa]

Thanks for the explanation! The extended wires obviously give you that horizontal tension but also you can independently apply the desired verticals pressure which makes a difference! It’s maddening to use the common method where you apply both simultaneously. As point of reference our pipe band snare drums have snare mechanisms on top and bottom. We adjust the horizontal and vertical tension independently on both. (The upper can’t use extended wires but has a mechanism inside that actually bends the wires upward to apply to the head without the end plates needing to touch the skin, and also allowing horizontal tension. Anyway, keep up the great work!

[@drumdotpizza]

Thanks so much! I've heard of those drums you're describing. You know the original Ludwig 'Super Sensitive" snare drum (from around 1927) had a similar dual wire system, one under the bottom head and another directly under the batter. I have always wondered how that kind of arrangement performs. Hmmm....

[@thomasmoje5926]

The upper snare mechanism on pipe band snare drums are adjustable for height..the higher the height the more pressure of the snare wires against the underside of the batter head. I often see pipe band snare drums with the upper snares pressed so tight against the batter head you can see the imprint of the snare wire buttplates/snare holders on the batter head..a sign of too tight against the head. When I adjust the batter side snare height I adjust so I can just start to see the 'bumps' from the snare holders on the batter head, then back off a bit so the batter head is completely smooth. Pipe band snare drums are highly tuned to give a high pitched 'crack' (to me like the sound of a .22 rimfire round) but still have some snare response. They can be finicky beasts to tune.

[@constantinecymbalsusa]

@@thomasmoje5926 agree! I don’t see the imprint in the top head in the modern drums. The old versions certainly did. They had these rollers in each side that would get pushed up into the head so hard it left a bump from underneath. I hated playing in that. Even though the heads were almost table too hard, it still felt weird. Todays drums are far better sounding and feeling to play on. ;-)

[@constantinecymbalsusa]

@@drumdotpizza an yes I’d forgotten about Hathor’s early dual snare drums. Interesting that they didn’t remain a popular option.

[@jessebillson]

Pearl free floating snare owner here. It has extended wires. Same snare response to my ears, but your tuning is better than mine. Haha Nice video! Keep em coming!

[@drumdotpizza]

Nice! Actually the Pearl S-025 wires work well for Tama roller bed drums if you can find them! I have a set on one of my Tama's. Companies need to bring extended wire designs back!

[@jessebillson]

@@drumdotpizza truetone makes them. They're expensive for wires, but I always go with that brand anyway. Hey, I bet you could do an entire series on wires various

[@kenhughes7977]

I just got a set of the Pearl S-025 wires to put on my free floater from Musician's Freind. This is my first experience with the extended snare wires and free floating snare drums, but I am really happy with both of them.

[@chrisbodegraven4789]

Another version of the long snare drum is the DW Truesonic. Very similar to a Rogers Dynasonic snare drum. I have one with a chrome over brass shell, very nice sounding snare drum. The snare wires don’t resonate as long as the snares on a conventional snare drum.

[@drumdotpizza]

I don't think the Truesonic's wires are actually long. It is, as I understand, DW's approach to the Dynasonic design, which is horizontal tension, yes, but the entire assembly, like that of the Dynasonic, is contained within the diameter of the drum, while extended wires go beyond the diameter of the drum. Do you have a Truesonic? I've never played one and wonder how it compares to a Dyna?

[@dave_sanderson]

This is getting reliable now, you post and it’s worth watching. Always. Brilliant stuff again. I own a few drums that fall into this category (‘69 Rogers Dynasonic COB, reissue Rogers wood, Premier 2000, Premier brass Carmine Appice, Tama Mastercraft Rosewood and the king of them all, a Sonor Signature Series) - Blunt truth is, every single one of them have something special, something extra about them. They’re potentially more fickle than ‘normal’ drums when set up less than perfect, and the differences are mild, especially when compared to something like a Dunnett with those super deep beds which are very sensitive. But they have something which can’t be replicated any other way. It’s a crying shame there are no parallel action drums these days. Your clips show it - kinda like comparing a Lexus to a Toyota - both excellent, both fundamentally the same underneath, both will leave you happy forever, but if you want that special little something extra…

[@drumdotpizza]

I love the Lexus/Toyota comparison. Well said!! I do wish someone would bring back extended snare wire designs. And Sonor Signature... holy crap that is a consequential design!! Intimidating just to look at! Lovely drums, though (even if I have to trade my car for one! ;)

[@kevinsimmons7630]

I have a first generation 8005 king beat. Parallel throw. Super sensitive Ludwig. First generation Pearl free floating snare. Plus a few Dynasonic. Recently sold a super gene Krupa. I’m totally picking up what you are laying down. Thanks for the info.

[@drumdotpizza]

Parallel!!! I hope someone brings it back!

[@MumbyHitsDrums]

Great channel! Been playing many years. Always something new to learn.

[@calebmooneyham287]

The Ludwig Universal Brass is a great black beauty substitution for a fraction of the price!

[@iRideuWatch]

I have a Tama King Beat snare from ca.1980. love it. Very loud and bright snare drum. I swapped the snare side head for a Remo Emperor black suede (5 mil) and it darkened the tone considerably.

[@drumdotpizza]

Parallel action! Nice...

[@iRideuWatch]

@@drumdotpizza yes but the levers on both sides are missing. I basically had to set it and Jerry rigged it to keep it in place. Those parts are hard to find.

[@drumdotpizza]

@@iRideuWatch Yeah, my son bought one last year and the levers were bent, but worked. Great sounding drum, but where to get replacement wires????

[@iRideuWatch]

@@drumdotpizza I got the wires from Drum Factory Direct. They finally made some!

[@eddieavakian]

Great topic Joel. So my story is that I have three horizontal tension snares. Late 70s black beauty. Incredible drum. 1941 Leedy Broadway standard. A real jaw dropper of a drum. And a new Dynasonic. Sounds amazing w the snares on, but I’ve always had a problem w the snares off. It engages intermittently. I’ve tried making adjustment after adjustment but can’t get it right. Thanks for letting me vent. 😂😂. Keep up the good work brother.

[@Lauen]

My '78 TAMA Superstar 14x5 in maple came with the parallel action KG strainer but the previous owner did not take care of it and half the strainer was gone, along with half the tension rods. I tried looking up parts but shipping to Norway is ludicrously expensive at times. Drilled a couple of new holes and put a simple vertical (as you call it) strainer on it and I was satisfied. Especially since I got it in a trade, and what did I give them? A cheap steel snare, but they were fine with it as it was intact. Later on I also bought an 80s Pearl Export 14x6.5 in steel for 5 bucks from another guy in the same area. Couldn't pass up these deals!

[@bgnoggin]

Great timing!! I'm re-working my 83 Superstar Mastercraft snare. I need to find a new felt for the muffler. Have everything else but that. I also noticed in another video, you didn't mention the snare strainer itself. The one where you picked up on a 80's Mastercraft and took it apart, the one with different year's lugs. You put it back together but didn't mention what you're talking about here, the extended snare wires?? I have my new wires sitting on the shelf, but they are just 14". I think I'll look into the 15" now after this video. I've had this snare since it was about 6 months old. Bought the kit barely used around 84. Had the whole kit painted yellow way back. The dark mahogany finish was done!! I'm now done with yellow, I did wrap the snare in black years ago, but I'm ready to put a little $$ into it, so I just sent the shell to CA where I'm having a buddy custom paint it. I also sent all the hardware to a custom coating place. I'm done with chrome!! Going with a black chrome powder. Most of it, not the plastic muffler knob. The plating place did explain some of the short comings of powder over chrome. I've agreed that he'd do his best and he feels it should come out good. I'm hoping I'm not making a major mistake there, but I had to do something. I'm done with chrome. Anyway, thanks for the great videos. I just discovered you. Good stuff!! Thank you!!

[@drumdotpizza]

Thanks so much for being here! I'd love to see some pics when you kit redo is done! As for the snare wires the best currently available wires to my ear are the model SE01-1620cr by Drum Factory Direct. They are the perfect length and sound great. These are the snares used in this video (my friend, whose Mastercraft was used here didn't have the right snare wires (previous owner put 14" on it), but I usually keep a couple sets of the longer ones around, so that's what he left with). I tried all the extended wires available from dFd, BTW (at all price points), and their own model above were the best fitting and performing. Pearl S-025 work well too if you can find them. I don't believe they are a current product, but NOS sets do pop up fairly regularly online. Thanks again for being here!

[@bgnoggin]

@@drumdotpizza I have the SEO1-1620cr by drum factory, and Puresound 15" - 20 strand in my cart now. How about the actual muffler pad for my Mastercraft? Where might I find that. I'm also looking for black tension rods. Tama seems to be 48mm. They sell by the 2 pack around $11, Yikes!! Or go with AIAS Tension Rods for Drums - Black Nickel (2 inch) and I can cut them down a little. Thanks for you help!! Do you have a website?:

[@bowlingactually]

@@drumdotpizza DFD doesn't seem to have the SE01-1602CR model any more, or at least I can't find them. I find one that is an SW5-1620 that is 15 1/4" long and also an SW-1620S that is 15 1/16". With either of these work? What is the overall length of the SE01-1620CR?

[@oxidinstruments]

Thanks the video was entertaining and informative. Being a geeky drumbuilder I have to dig into this subject. Your demonstration sounded lovely and now I guess I will have to build such mechanism to my drums, somehow

[@BeatsAndMeats]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!!!!!! Is that at OG 1980 Tama Bell Brass you just casually cruised by in your B-roll???

[@luisrene2633]

Thanks for the information, I really enjoy both snares,they sound good

[@cj_m2477]

Really interesting subject. I was surprised you didn’t mention Ludwig SuperSensitive. I own two that are BB’s. The only snares I played for years. I definitely heard a distinct but very subtle difference between the two drums and your explanation made sense as well. Thanks for this very informative video! I’m going to subscribe to your channel.

[@drumdotpizza]

So glad you're here! I actually had a Ludwig SS back in high school (early 80s, when I was about 16). I dropped it and bent one of the protective bars around one side of the mechanism and while ti did protect the mechanism, the cumbersome size and the fact that I couldn't find a case for it made me get rid of it. I didn't seriously consider extended snare designs after that (for those reasons) for the next nearly 30 years till I played a Tama roller bed Atwood snare from the late 1980s (9" deep!). I never liked deep snare, because they lack good snare response at low dynamics, but that drum was amazingly responsive! I looked into the design and acquire a steel 5" Mastercraft, then a 6.5", and then never looked back. My FAVORITE snare/stainer/wire design!

[@cj_m2477]

@@drumdotpizza I certainly understand about the case problem Lol. I use the old square fiberboard cases on mine. You have definitely piqued my interest in the Mastercraft snares though. I’m going to check them out.

[@wddrumming452]

I own a older recording custom snare with the extended wires and never really knew how to adjust them properly. there is a adjustment on the sides as well as 2 tensioners, one on each side. would love to see a video on the proper set up and tensioning for this. also I would like to replace the wires and don't know if they make wires that fit or sound better.

[@Rhythmic1]

I was digging the beat big time. That bass drum is super badass. I heard the difference. I kind of like both but I think I see why you prefer the extended snare sound especially for that kind of super groovy and heavy backbeat. To my ears it has an earthy kind of sound. I love it.

[@claudeabraham2347]

I have 4 snare drums. Oldest is a 1968 Ludwig Supraphonic 400, 5X14 metal, with standard snares. Overall good sound. Next is a 1978 Fibes SFT690, 5X14 fiberglass wrap, with extended snares. Great sound. Next is 1979 Ludwig Coliseum, 8X14 maple, with extended snares. Great sound. Last is 1993 Pearl MLX, 6.5X14 maple, with extended snares. Great sound. Overall I prefer extended snares. Great sensitivity at low volume, & less rattle at high volume. The standard snares are still good, but lack low volume sensitivity. Last

[@Telson-w1j]

Excelente vídeo ! Bem explicativo . Parabéns !!!!!

[@drumdotpizza]

Whoa... careful! You kiss your mom with that mouth? (Thank you!! ;)

[@aacycles]

Thanks for clearing up a few things!!! Great Video!

[@bigradio9195]

Great video, I have the same Mastercraft and love it. On other snares when you engage the strainer the bottom head pitch goes up noticeably, on my Mastercraft you really have to crank the snare wire tension to get that to happen which is why I think this system works better, drum is less choked and the just sounds and feels great. Too bad this option isn't really available on many snares these days, I think they are missing the boat.

[@drumdotpizza]

I'm gonna bring it back! (says me... ;)

[@ryandonohue152]

Tama makes some of the best sounding snares. Realized many of my influences were Tama endodorsers. I really would like a 15 x 6 snare. J R Robinson had one back in the day. But not willing to spend over a grand. You ever played a 15?

[@drumdotpizza]

Only once! It was a custom drum, maple shell, from a local builder (not Jon Zoog... another dude by the name of Tex or something... was a few years back). Big sound. I liked it, but I have never played another. I do have a 15" heavy ludwig shell that Zoog cut down to 7" deep for me (was a marching snare drum from the late 70s). I'm gonna build it out soon, so I'll finally have a 15". What is it about 15" snares that you like?

[@brent3760]

Very cool video!

[@Manassasjunction]

Don't forget the dampening effect of 14" snares on the head. I always preferred parallel or kind of tama, Ludwig Slingerland and Rogers snare strainers.

[@jimstanley7524]

Love your videos!

[@bugjobdoofusbrain]

thank you for discussing this i am believer that traditional snare beds are nothing short of a design flaw and all snares should have extended wires lol. which model would you recommend for getting the tightest snare response without any choking? im especially looking for something easy to set up as my dynasonic seems to require a phd to set up correctly!

[@johnjsavage]

Very good video always enjoy your content. I’ve never played a snare with extended wires but from what I’ve seen of them it seems like a bit of over-engineering, doesn’t really sound any different than a drum with a regular snare system, at least not in any videos I’ve seen. An interesting fact about wires that few are aware of: The pitch of the end plates or ‘clips’ that the snares are soldered into makes a huge difference in the sensitivity. Basically if you have a snare with somewhat shallow snare beds, such as a Supraphonic or a Black Beauty, you want snare wires with end plates that are angled downward instead of flat like most wires. Essentially what is happening is when the wires are tensioned, the angle of the plates causes the snares to naturally be pushed up into the middle of the bottom head, compensating for the shallow bed. This allows you to get good sensitivity without having to over-tension the wires. I typically just get generic wires and put a little bend in them myself cause I prefer the sound of their lighter-gauge, but Puresound offers the Blaster series with this principle implemented. Also Fat Cat offers all their wires with either “Pitch” or “No Pitch.” Happy drumming

[@drumdotpizza]

I've seen the Fat Cat designs and am fascinated by them. I need to get some to try out.

[@Jtdubbzz]

This is how my Pearl Free Floating is stock

[@NintenDub]

Ive never seen or heard of extended snare wire, snare drum. Didnt know that was a thing at all

[@drumdotpizza]

Tama has reintroduced a few of their Mastercraft snare from the early 80s (part of their 50th anniversary): Bell Brass, Rosewood and Steel. The BB and Steel are going to be continually available, I believe (not limited edition products). I'm super pumped about this as that design is my FAVORITE extended snare design (Yamaha's was good too in the 80s, not the parallel design, just the normal with extended beds). To my knowledge the Tama reissues are the only currently made extended snare designs.

[@jerrygamez5723]

Thanks for the video

[@anglia427]

I like my dyno but on all the other snares I use Fat Cat snare wires 24 strand and you can adjust the middle 12 indipendently from the outer wires so you can have a tight and loose snare sound at the same time.

[@drumdotpizza]

I have yet to try Fat Cat wires, but I think it's about time. I've heard good things about then, though they aren't cheap.

[@anglia427]

@@drumdotpizza I think it would make a good video for you to do.

[@claudeabraham2347]

Very good! Thanks!

[@JackNiles]

I have been wondering what the sound difference is with a Swingstar black badge with mastercraft shell 14 x 6.5 snare drum and a BB165 bell brass. Looks like the difference between the powerline 14 x 6 1/2 snare drum and a Swingstar 14 x 6 1/2 is that the swingstar has eight lugs and the powerline has 10 lugs and looks like the rims are different material. But they sound similar to My ear. Because they have the same steel shell. It would be interesting to have a swing star with the Mastercraft shell and a bell brass sitting next to each other and see how close that you could make them sound the same. thanks for the videos

[@Camcodrummer]

Mastercraft snares are great a bit fickle to setup and of course snappy snares are harder and harder to find ( at least original style) . I have a Dyna and Luddy SS as well and love those too. Your choice of 6.5 Master steelie was wise. Great all around snare, while Bell Brass, Rosie's and Fibrestars are bad azz the steelie can do most music very very well. Great video and loving the topics.

[@drumdotpizza]

thank you! I consider the steel Mastercrafts to be something of a baby bell brass in terms of sound... can really do the 'gun shot' thing quite well. Those steel shells are HEAVY, and slightly oversized too (some heads can be snug), but they sound great! If you're ever looking for current replacement snares I recommend the model SE01-1620cr from Drum Factory Direct. It is their own brand, but I have tried all the extended wire sets available from them, at all price points, and they are the best fitting and sounding. These are what I gave my buddy for the drum in this video (previous owner had put regular 14" wires on it).

[@arrowintheknee9956]

@@drumdotpizza Hi! The model SE01-1620cr is 16". Is that the size you would use? Would 15" work too? Edit: Thank you for the video, I learned so much about the snarebeds! 🎉

[@BeesWaxMinder]

they introduced the ACTIVE SNARE SYSTEM to try & get the best of both worlds but it's still a nice way to get parallel action on the cheap IMO

[@drumdotpizza]

I actually have a set of those active snare wires! I'm not sure if I got a bad set, but never could get them to be totally quiet... always a little stray buzz for some reason. Good sound overall though, and yes, cheap way to convert your drum to true horizontal tension!

[@stepanbina3688]

Hi, I am a big fan of the channel and I have the exact same drum butnI don't have the orignal wires, in fact I have some really basic ones. I would like to get the extended ones. Do you recommend getting 15 inch site or is there any specific model I should get? Thank youso much

[@oxidinstruments]

I was wondering what would be your take on _short_ snare wires? I’ve heard some use 13” or even 12” wires on 14” snare. Tried it, sounded fine but didn’t really dig into it or try to analyze it. Had fun playing the drum 😄

[@oxidinstruments]

@drumdotpizza

[@drumdotpizza]

I've never put wires for smaller drums on a 14" snare drum, so I don't have experience with it. I have a 13" and 12" snare drums, so perhaps I'll try and see how it works. My guess is that the shorter wires would mean less response and more 'tone' of the drum (without the wires), which could be very cool. I'll have to try it.

[@ceyhunazeroglu9882]

Great content as usual. I do the opposite! I use 30 strand 13" wires on my 14" snares, gives me in and out, staccato but loud wire sound.

[@drumdotpizza]

Interesting that you use 13" on your 14" drum... is that because the 30 strands are too wide to be closer to the edge/snare beds and still respond well? I would imagine large count wires that are shorter would play nicer with narrower beds, but have never tried it myself. I actually had the privilege of getting to know Larrie Londin a few years before his death, and he was a big fan of 42-strand wires (even on his piccolo DW!). You just gotta have wide/shallow beds for those to work well.

[@ceyhunazeroglu9882]

@@drumdotpizza Definetly! I think it's due to the fact that the metal plates that the snare wires are attached to are flat and stiff, not elastique :). Makes me wonder what if they were made out of a softer material that conformed into the shape of the shell. Probably down the road someone tried and it wasn't ideal.

[@Ted_Swayinghill]

I have a yamaha sd493 and a Tama AW106 mannnnnn both of them are my top 5 snares

[@drumdotpizza]

I lusted after the 493 for YEARS after that came out (was a big Weckl and Vinnie fan in the late 80s)... never did get one. Still want one, but the brass 'lugs' Yamaha used for this drums are usually warped to an angle now (and/or the shell under them). Hard to find one in original condition with truly vertical lugs, though still probably a great drum. I need to just bite the bullet and snag one!

[@Ted_Swayinghill]

@@drumdotpizza Yeah if you find one in pristine condition you’re definitely gonna pay a premium Im trying to get a drum maker here in baltimore to make me a replica in purpleheart.

[@Ferklaus]

other snare that has extended snare wires is the Yamaha SD493 Piccolo.

[@ltcwkttkl]

also the 80's and early 90's Recording Custom, Tour Custom and metal snare drums from Yamaha, I have an RC. Some late 1990's and early 2000's signature models also got extended snare system.

[@TwoandaHater]

I think I have a powerline(?), I bought an early 80s Tama Superstar kit- in Super Maple and it came with the original snare he bought with it, but it has flanged hoops vs the die cast you displayed. I never know what to do with that internal dampening/muffler thing.

[@drumdotpizza]

Yes, you are correct! The Powerline model came with flanged hoops (including mine... I put some die-cast hoops that I had on it to make it more like the Mastercraft I was comparing it to). I think die-cast was an option for it, but I don't think I've ever seen one. As for the muffler... if it is the 2nd gen (LARGE knob) version, it is my absolute favorite! (I need to do a video defending internal mufflers as they got a bad rap in the mid 80s that they haven't quite recovered from (with some bad 'science' to support getting rid of them)). Both generations of Tama's One Touch muffler are meant to adjust to desired tension, then simply flip it on and off. The fine adjustment should be made when the muffler is 'off' (and then flip it on to check the setting). The 2nd gen version has splines in the middle meant to hold hold the inner fine adjust knob in place when engaged, yet many of those splines have been knocked down/smoothed out by people insisting on making adjustments anyway (which is hard to do when engaged), so this is a common problem with these 40 years on. But it is a useful design that love.

[@TwoandaHater]

@@drumdotpizza I was always confused like, do I tune it with it and snare wires off- then flip them both on etc.!

[@grundydan1]

Hi Joel, fascinating explanation. I have this snare drum too, what Tune-Bot pitch did you tune to and what type of heads please, as yours sounds better than mine!? Thanks

[@drumdotpizza]

I actually have this written down! Batter: 294 Snare Side: 398 (I wrote them down, so I could match my Powerline to his Mastercraft after he left). Thanks for being here!

[@grundydan1]

Cool, many thanks!

[@TimJaramillo]

Joel, or any other kind viewer: what specific SM57, 90 degree "L" kit are you using on the top batter-head snare mic?

[@drumdotpizza]

That is the Granelli G5790 right angle conversion kit (DIY version -- you can also buy SM57s that have already been modified directly). The mic is actually a Shure 545SD (or whatever version they currently make) with this DIY knuckle. The bottom is from a dead SM57, however, as the bottom of the 545 had the was a slightly different shape to allow for the switch -- this got in the way of the Granelli right angle device, so I used the top of the 545 with the bottom of an SM57 that wasn't working anymore. I sanded the powdercoat off the 57 bottom to make it look a bit more like the shiny 545. Bottom mic is a stock 545SD. I like the 545 more than the 57... it feels more natural or organic, somehow, while the SM57 feels a bit stiff to me, pinched somehow. The 545 is more relaxed (both wired in low impedance output -- the 545 CAN be wired for high impedance, but I use it low).

[@marcusbrown87]

I have a Mastercraft snare from 1983 with the rolling snare mechanism and until recently I didn't realise they needed extended snare wires. I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why the wires never sounded right no matter what I did. Turns out, even after the re-issue of the Tama Mastercraft snare drums, they failed to reissue the wires that go with them... I can't find the extended wires anywhere. I'm in New Zealand. Anyone got any advice on where to find some? Don't really wanna pay hundreds of dollars to have them shipped from over seas

[@Didumdidaj]

I have a Tama Imperialstar, but it seems to be impossible to find a extended wire anywhere 😞

[@chrisroberts68]

I tried some 15" Puresound on a 14" Snare with roller system. These are not long enough to extend the shell. Just for information. 🙏

[@drumdotpizza]

If you're a Puresound fan try the ones made for the Pearl Free Floating System drums. I have those on my Bell Brass. They work wonderfully.

[@jimstanley7524]

Hi Joel! Is that beautiful green sparkle snare in the background a Gretsch? For sale? Thanks, Jim

[@drumdotpizza]

Hi, Jim! Actually, that is a 6.5" Radio King that Jon Zoog built for me using a NOS Radio King shell from the 90s era of the brand (when they were in Nashville, was it?). After they shut down the operation someone bought the remaining stock of shells, and I bought one. I had to have it machined to just under 14" diameter as it was raw/unsanded and too big for 14" heads. I had a stave shell maker turn it, inside and out, to get it to proper size and plumb. Then Jon cut edges and beds (wider and shallower than vintage RKs), then put reissue beavertails on it along with an INDe strainer/butt combo, stick saver hoops and an original, vintage, dual felt Slingerland internal muffler. Oh, and got a vintage 'cloud' badge for it as well. So it's custom, technically, but made from a.Slingerland single ply shell with clone Slingerland lugs, proper internal muffler, etc. A beautiful drum!! And no, not for sale at this time (sorry!).

[@brent3760]

Is the Ludwig Super Sensitive a horizontal snare tension design too?

[@drumdotpizza]

It is, indeed! Also the Pearl Jupiter, Tama's Mastercraft and King Beat, Yamaha's 0000 and 9000 from the 80s. Also the Ludwig snares equipped with the odd P-87 strainer (that allow for separate wire tension on each individual strand of wire or gut) as well. One side is secured with a screw and the other fit into the butt and secured with two screws, but those are extended strand drums too.

[@ceyhunazeroglu9882]

IT'S HIM

[@wjreid12]

Was not the Ludwig Super Sensitive snare drum (going back to the 60s) an extended snare design? I've always been a bit disappointed that the horizontal snare tension design (I include the Dynasonic here) never really caught on.

[@krusher74]

it was an extra expence for drum companies that the public at large was not willing to pay for.

[@drumdotpizza]

Yes, Ludwig's Super Sensitive, Pearl's Jupiter, Yamaha's 0000 and 9000 drums from the 80s, Tama King Beat and Mastercraft.... there were many extended snare designs back in the day. And yes, I think the expense of design and manufacture, the relative fragility of the. mechanisms (particularly the parallel action versions), the fiddly nature of proper adjustment and the difficulty/expense of finding a proper case to protect (or just fit) the usually large mechanisms all contributed to the demise of extended snare designs. Still... I LOVE the performance!

[@aaronrochotte6342]

Are those the stock Tama wires? I have this throwoff on a Artwood snare - tried 15" pearl free floating wires on it, and I couldn't get them to sit right. Any tips?

[@drumdotpizza]

I have some stock wires on a couple of my drums, but the ones on the drum in this video (and on some of my own drums) are the model SE01-1620cr from Drum Factory Direct. I tried all the extended snare wires they sold at all price points, and these performed (and fit) the best. Great sound! Pearl model S-025 work well too, if you can find them (I don't think they're made anymore, but NOS sets pop up fairly often online). Can't get the 18-strand Tama originals anymore, though I'm talking with a CAD/machinist friend of mine to perhaps recreate them.... we'll see....

[@bigradio9195]

I did the same and found the ends where the wires attach, that plate was rubbing up against the roller mechanism and preventing the snares from lying flat. I took some aviator snips and snipped the corners off the plate so it fit better between the edges of the roller mech and they work great now.

[@bigradio9195]

@@drumdotpizza so you use 16" wires?

[@elliotbird6463]

So, i picked up an old 14x6.5 Ajax Parallel Action Brass snare drum from the 1930's a few months back, bought some puresound wires too, only to find out that it was an extended snare wire system and I'm assuming that the regular puresound wires i got wont fit. So, i dont suppose anyone has any recommendations for alternative snare wires with 30 strands?

[@drumdotpizza]

I don't. I'd be happy to help if you provide some good pics and spacing measurement between connection points on the parallel strainer. Probably will have to fashion something use current wires as a foundation, but shouldn't be impossible.

[@robertdore9592]

Curiously, those Tama price have gone up...

[@drumdotpizza]

Indeed! I used to buy them for $200, but now almost impossible to get for $300. 6.5" often go for more like $400. Some of my favorite drums, though. Totally worth it if in good shape!

[@bd13cc]

*Maybe closer to 15" long, but they'd need to be wires for a 16" snare if you're buying generic wires to use.

[@drumdotpizza]

Correct! The wires themselves measure just over 15" long, but they are made for a 16" diameter snare (assuming they are to fit the drum like in a normal arrangement). I bought all the "16 inch" snare wires that Drum Factory Direct offers and compared them. The best to my ear were dFd's own 1620cr (20 strand). That is what I put on my buddy's drum in this video.

[@KPG76]

...and now I also want a Tama Mastercraft....

[@drumdotpizza]

Yes... yes you do....!

[@KPG76]

@@drumdotpizza Yes I did! I bought one soon after I posted that :)

[@krusher74]

I have Sonor parallel action snares and find thier sound far superior to the non horizontal standard system, acoustic drum inovation died in the 90's

[@drumdotpizza]

I actually reached out to Drum Center at Portsmouth, NH to see if they know of any currently available snare drums that use extended wires - hey couldn't think of anything! I understand people don't like cumbersome, fiddly and (potentially) hard to find a case for. But MAN... THE SOUND! I just love extended wire snare drums! I predict extended wire designs will make a comeback in the near future!!

[@brianchisnell1548]

Old news. My '48 RK...

[@jeremiahfingsheets]

Okay but you don’t explain HOW you did it.

[@drumdotpizza]

How I did what? I'm sorry. Not sure what you're referring to. ???

[@marshmower]

Still not something id gravitate towards unless it's at my feet and under $200. I played with some steel snares with no snare bed and the buzzing is just part of life. Sometimes simplicity is better.

[@markpichler9070]

I think when you hit hard there you will not hear any big difference. You must make a video played only in piano and near the edge of the head. So hidding hard I would say that both sounds really good and I do not hear any big difference.

[@drumdotpizza]

Quite right! The significant difference is in how the wires respond at lower dynamic levels. Perhaps I should have spent more time playing softer. I will keep that in mind in the future. Thank you so much for your input!!

[@vipermad358]

This could be edited for clarity and conciseness.

[@drumdotpizza]

Thank you for the comment. Yes, I am verbose and often speak in stream of consciousness. I try to storyboard before I start filming, but my mind always introduces new thoughts/content in the moment as I speak, and it is hard to ignore (you should try to edit one of my videos... wow, it's a chore, believe me). Still, I have noticed I am improving as time goes on... the process of filming and editing is gradually becoming more of a system, so hopefully I will get more comfortable with the camera as time goes on. Now if I can just quit filling spaces between thoughts with "uhhh..." and "umm..." ;)

[@arneolson7114]

I wonder why the big name guys don't get more into tuning and discussion on snare drum excellence? I enjoy your videos quite a bit