Extreme horror or extreme boredom? Sick B*stards by Matt Shaw

[@eriebeverly]

With extreme horror you often get the worst that self-publishing has to offer. The subject matter turns the books into something where if a writer gets negative feedback it's easy to blame it on the extreme elements and not the work as a whole. And those negative takes become their own kind of positive feedback. Look how offensive my book is I must be doing something right.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

That feedback point is a really good one. I suspect negative reviews are kind of a badge of honour

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

This is true, but I totally agree with you saying that it sounds like a bunch of teenage boys make a checklist of everything gross and don't worry about characters or a coherent story

[@mikepratt6481]

​@@kevsplitterskull3209yes! I've dabbled in a few "extreme" horror books, and man I need to start finishing my stories if THOSE can attract an audience! They're just page after page of the most ridiculously over-the-top vulgarities with just a scattering attempt at telling a story. And is it me, or does almost every "extreme" horror story revolve around snuff films?!

[@nicholasjones3207]

Agreed. I’m falling out with extreme/splatterpunk a bit because of this. Some authors do it well but a lot of the new stuff is just edgelord-ism and not good writing.

[@bad-girlbex3791]

All I can imagine in my head is that episode of South Park where the kids write a novel called 'The Tale Of Scrotey McBoogerBalls' or something like that, where all they do is write the most disgustingly puerile collection of gross scenarios and then try to pretend that it was Butters who wrote it because they didn't want to get into trouble. The problem being that the adults who found it, despite vomiting every time they read it, started to act like it was a piece of really deep fiction and were reading all kinds of psychological nonsense between the lines. All it was, was a load of garbage written by a bunch of kids. Sometimes I wonder if these authors of "Extreme Horror" are all just try to see how much nonsense they can get away with selling people, before they have to own up and confess that it was all just trolling to begin with.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Ha ha I don't think I have seen that episode but it sounds perfect. They absolutely nail that kind of thing so often

[@buckiemohawk3643]

its like cannibal corpse with vile lyrics just to be vile and not at all interesting.

[@nunyabidness4220]

I'm not easily shocked or offended, but I am easily bored by children who have no talent other than showing me their chewed-up food. And that's what a lot of these authors do. There are only a few really good extreme horror books, and they're great because they don't *rely* on the gore. They'd be strong even without the gore. I write some horror myself, and I don't balk at putting heavy gore into a story... but I make sure that if I took a more subtle approach, the story would still work. The Girl Next Door by Jack Ketchum is a masterpiece. Off Season is also good. Survivor by J. F. Gonzalez is an extremely effective book... but it would still be effective even if he'd decided to withhold some of the gore, just because his control of the story is masterful. Wrath James White is about as extreme as it gets, but his novels have some depth and a point to them, besides just seeing how much damage can be done to anatomy. Some of Edward Lee's early stuff is good, but he got lazy once he got noticed for being "gross" and then he turned into an idiot writing ridiculously stupid stories about people eating snot. I mean, what's the point? For the most part, a lot of not-very-talented people who don't want to do the work to become a good writer have decided to just describe gross stuff instead. And that's cheap and easy. All ya gotta do is have one character force-feed another character somebody's intestines or whatever... but making somebody CARE that that's happening, beyond it just being gross, or making it plausible that it WOULD happen, is more difficult. And that's why most extreme horror writers don't even bother with that part, they jump right to the vomit-slurping.

[@shelf-regulatingsystem1323]

Really enjoying the exploration of the distinction drawn between disgusting/extreme horror and genuinely disturbing content in the early days of this project. Juan goes into it a lot on his Plagued By Visions channel but you're exploring it in a different way, especially illuminating that all these suggestions were explicitly in response to Notice. Great stuff as always!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thank you! Yes, I'm enjoying the journey.

[@MonsterEnjoyer69]

This author seems very immature and edgy. He recently freaked out over a woman giving one of his books a bad review to the point of writing a romance out of spite and dedicating it to her. Before that there was another reviewer who he dedicated his F-ing Filth book to. He also wrote a weird torture p*rn book based off of Amber Heard called Her Name Was Amber.

[@margueritelamothe1840]

Yeah, it seems he's Edgy McEdgelord until he's criticized, then he acts out childishly. Being gross and shocking for the sake of it doesn't really make your stuff interesting. It's the book equivalent of a kid digging up worms to gross out their friends.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@margueritelamothe1840 although worms are kind of interesting and cool

[@johnward5404]

Yeaaaaah when I was getting into disturbing horror I saw Matt shaws name and looked thru his book titles and reviews and declared it wasn’t for me based on it being purely gross out with no rhyme or reason. I’m all for being shocked, but like horror films, I’d appreciate a little subtlety or realism or restraint… except terrifier I love that film series lol.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Ha! Yes I think the Terrifier films do that kind of thing perfectly.

[@AsFlowingWater]

Not sure if you've already gotten to it, but Exquisite Corpse is one of the very few works of extreme horror that I felt worked for me. I thought it was very well written! I felt like it was less of an overt attempt at shocking the readers, more of an uncomfortably lavish exploration of something horrible, if that makes sense.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I haven't yet, but hope to soon. Probably next month. Your description of it certainly chimes with what others have said to me about it.

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

Oh wow, this guy beat me to the party!

[@LivingDeadEnby]

I wasn't aware that this book was extreme horror. I've read it, I think, over a decade ago and remember it being graphic but somehow even a cosy read. I need to re-read it.

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

It's just very beautiful and lyrical, so the graphic description of murders and biting out someone's guts while they're still alive may slip by you. That and when it isn't murder it's sex. Kinda desensitizing I guess

[@LivingDeadEnby]

@@kevsplitterskull3209 Absolutely

[@ering2467]

I read Queen of Teeth earlier this year and I still think about it a lot. That and To Be Devoured are example for extreme horror but with a message.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Admittedly I haven't read either of those, but I have read short fiction by Piper and Tantlinger (I co-edited a collection they both had stories in) and I wouldn't have categorised them as extreme horror authors

[@jamessmithfitness309]

If you want good and disturbing extreme horror, I recommend The Groomer also by Jon Athan. A good number of extreme horror books miss story elements with no character development. The Groomer is a more recent book from Jon Athan, and he really focuses on the psychological component of the characters and the book plot development. This book focuses on a father's little girl who gets taken by a predatory organization, and the father goes on a vigilante rampage to try to get his daughter back home safely. This book is a mix of extreme horror and thriller.

[@ering2467]

The Groomer put me off horror for a month. So disturbing to me.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

So many people have mentioned that one that I'm going to include it in my disturbing book project

[@vibeology9432]

@@CriminOllyBlogthis reply threw me down a rabbit hole. Holy hell.. someone didn’t sleep last night after that. Love your channel !

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@vibeology9432 ha! Sorry about that. Glad you’re enjoying the channel though!

[@sonyasluss9724]

Noooooo.

[@badrad9226]

Olly this was a great conversation. This is a wonderful conversation about these disturbing books . You brought up some really good points . I think maybe as being a booktuber I get curious over these kind of books ? These books I think is the purpose of being shocked like you said . The curiosity of the disturbing books always had my attention. I agree on your opinion . Woom put me in a reading slump . I enjoy a book that has a great story . I read disturbing books because I love the challenge. I see a booktuber mentioned a book and it gets my attention. Love this conversation. I don’t mind reading a variety of books . I even collect the disgusting books just to have even if I don’t ever read them 😊 I think it’s awesome you still try to read these books and being honest on how you feel about it .

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thank you so much! Really glad you enjoyed the video. Agree that there is a lure to these kind of books, they challenge you to read them!

[@badrad9226]

@@CriminOllyBlogabsolutely, I always enjoy these topics because I have questions myself. 😊 thanks for sharing.

[@justinecooper9575]

I think the more appropriate term for this type of fiction is "carnography." I've recently read three or four novels by Mark Shaw and found them all to be poorly written. I don't understand how he's managed to get so many novels in print.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

That's a good term for it. I think he's just very productive and self-published

[@Kuyjac258]

I’ve read a few by Shaw (mainly his Game series) and I always think after why did I even bother? He has some good ideas but overall they don’t do it for me. His characters are never likeable or unlikeable enough to have any feelings either way and his kindle versions are always filled with errors, typos, grammatical and even mixing up names. Gross for the sake of being gross is good in the right setting but there’s never any decent build up to his novels.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Completely agree with that "why did I bother" assessment!

[@ITCamefromthePage]

This is the real problem with extreme horror especially in the modern parlance....so much of it is written by writers with all the skill of a teenage edgelord.

[@ITCamefromthePage]

Damn dude you watched Terrifier 2? That movie effing sucks hahaha. God Olly this challenge is going to destroy you lol.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I actually really liked it. Took my back to my days of watching grotty VHS bootlegs in the 80s

[@ITCamefromthePage]

@@CriminOllyBlog Well that's good at least, the running time alone would have made it all the more painful if you didn't like it lol. I like all those VHS bootlegs from the 80s but nothing in Terrifier 2 worked for me lol.

[@daveedmunds1109]

I'm with you buddy. I stupidly went for Porn by Matt Shaw and it was rubbish. Can't even give it away. A much better extreme horror is The Summer I Died by Ryan C Thomas. Absolutely fantastic with some good character work.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Cheers, Dave. I have The Summer I Died on my Kindle and will be reading it soon as part of my project to read disturbing books.

[@daveedmunds1109]

@@CriminOllyBlog I'm confident you'll enjoy it. I'm not a fan of extreme horror myself, due to the usual lack of quality in the writing. But that is a good one. I'm sure you've read Off Season by Ketchum. if you haven't that's a really good one.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@daveedmunds1109 I have read Off Season - loved it

[@daveedmunds1109]

@@CriminOllyBlog last one and then I'll leave you to it. Survivor by JF Gonzalez. That's got perhaps the worst scene I've read in a book but it's relevant to the story and in complete context. Not just for shock value. Take care and keep up the great content!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@daveedmunds1109 that one I haven’t read but do mean to at some point. Glad you’re enjoying the channel!

[@cylesteblue]

So glad you mentioned The Slob. I didn’t get along with that book, but the cover was SO intriguing. Another great review!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yes, his covers are really interesting. Glad you liked the review!

[@ConversationswithApril_]

His work is very questionable hidden under horror in my opinion. People need to be mindful of what they're promoting. I have viewed reviews that were raving and giving reviews on OMG this is extreme but they're all for it. Just like his HUB book that is so detailed with sexual child abuse and torture with victims aging from 4-12 and then he has a sequal coming out or already out called Kids.... In my opinion this is content created for child predators/monsters. Thank you for your honest review and I appreciate your awareness that it's not really extreme horror.

[@franperkovic6430]

You should read Night of the Prowler by Jon Athan and compare it to Terrifier 2. I'm not a fan of Athan and cheap extreme horror, but I liked that one!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Ah interesting! I might check that out

[@Priscilla_Bettis]

I actually loved Sick B*stards. But then again, I'm a little juvenile at times. And no, I can't take Matt Shaw every day. He's a once in a while.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Ah great! I'm glad!

[@zachreads]

"Extreme" usually only works for me when it's supposed to be a joke. I recently read and enjoyed Sense and Sensibility and Sea monsters, it's full of dismemberments and eviscerations but it's funny contrasted with Jane Austen. Same goes for a joke you can look up called The Aristocrats, which is comedians trying to be as disgusting as possible. I mentioned it before but the only thing that I found both extreme and disturbing was Header by Edward Lee.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I do know that joke. And it occurs to me now that that punchline would have been a much better end to Sick Bastards. 😂 I do need to read some more Edward Lee - have only read one thing by him (Slither) which I think is one of his tamer works

[@bjlowe85]

I havent read this but one book about canabilism that I recently read was Brother by Ania Ahlborn an indie author. The story was amazing and not over the top have you read it?

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I haven't read that one, but have enjoyed a few other books but Ahlborn

[@TangibleReads]

I stumbled on this book years ago and was like what am I reading, but couldn't put it down.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yeah it was kind of compelling in that sense!

[@anotherbibliophilereads]

I liked Off Season by Jack Ketchum and The Bighead by Edward Lee as examples of extreme horror, but they were the vanguards. I’ve not read a lot of the new crop of authors, but I’ve been disappointed with what I have sampled, mostly self-published dreck on Kindle

[@authenticpoppy]

Off Season is such a 1970s era book.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I do need to give The Bighead a go sometime

[@rustyshackleford1875]

I love your review as always but I think that there is something that you need to keep in mind here. These novels are comedy for horror fans. It's a bit like Terrifier 2. As someone who has watched everything there is to offer this has become all too apparent. After seeing real life videos of people being hit by steam roller, tortured etc etc. there is nothing that can shock me anymore; I am desensitized to the extreme. When you see Matt being interviewed it becomes very apparent that he is writing these with tongue firmly in cheek and whilst I know that is very hard to understand for normal viewers/readers that is definitely the case. Take horror films. Everyone begins with the slashers then they move on to more and more extreme content. The horror films that disturb me are the kind that are basically not reviewed much, don't get advertised, you have to beg for a copy etc until one randomly gets released. Things like Terrifier 2 are still products/commodities that are aimed at an audience to sell. The real horror is more of an art and so does not (I hope this kind of makes sense) For example try (relatively tame) Tsukamoto's short film Haze. I have 'horror fan' friends that think im insane for just being able to watch it. Men Behind The Sun is another example. These are not easy sells for companies. In the same way Matt etc. produce books that I find hysterical because of their over the top style etc. Not many publishers are going to touch them but they are produced in a vacuum, only people into them like them and they in turn recommend them, it's like a cottage industry. We all read it discuss it, have a laugh and one-up eachother and that's how the genre progresses. I read a novella last night called Woom in which a man forces his head into a prostitutes vagina; yes there are themes to be explored etc. but it's all just entertainment for the sake of it unlike a lot of more traditional horror that is aimed at breaking taboos or creating a discussion. The extreme metal scene is the same, it's awkward to explain but either you get it or you don't and that's fine! Thank-you for not belittling fans and taking the time to explore the genre. May i suggest the author Chad Lutzke if you are looking for something bordering the extreme but with a message.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I do get it, and there are some authors more towards the extreme end (or at least splatterpunk) who I do enjoy - Brian Bowyer or Shaun Hutson for example. For me the Matt Shaw books I've read just don't click with me at all. Not sure if you've seen the video I did on Terrifier 2, but I tried to explain in that why I think gore tends to work better in movies than books. I'm aware of Lutzke but haven't read him, so will give him a try. Man Behind the Sun is one of those films I've long been intrigued by after reading about it in an article on disturbing films years ago.

[@scotholladay]

What was your opinion of Terrifier 2? I enjoyed it, but there was one part, in a bedroom, that I had to look away for a moment.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I liked it. I have a kind of review video filmed and due to go up this weekend

[@BigDog366]

I was curious to know if you've read the novel Meat by Joseph D'Lacey. It's a very similar novel/theme to Tender is the Flesh, but I think even more thought provoking and horrific. I gave both five stars.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I haven’t, although it’s been on my radar for some time.

[@Raghu.Bharadwaj]

Try Gone to see the river man by kristopher triana.I think its excellent and narratively builds tension really well.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I have that one on my Kindle to read soon

[@klesker]

I read one of his called The Farm. Felt like the first act of a bigger story rather than a cohesive whole. Curious to see what you think of my new short now 😂 that’s a deliberately extreme story, but it’s just a story rather than a whole book.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I suspect he deliberately writes incomplete things so he has a hook for his next book. Will let you know what I think of the story when I get to it :)

[@ASIF_M1934]

Thanks for the heads up Olly.

[@scotholladay]

I have been bouncing back and forth on this. Couldn’t decide if I wanted to read it or not. I’ve read his Pack trilogy and a few shorts. Thanks for the reviews. Oh, I finished Camp Slaughter last night. It’s been many many years that a book I read before going to bed sneaks it’s way into my dreams, but Camp Slaughter did that every night. Starting Halloween Slaughter now.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Ah great! Really glad you enjoyed Camp Slaughter! I thought it was great.

[@michellesmelancholia]

Regarding extreme horror I have heard great things about Judith Sonnet. A lot of people that don't enjoy the books you mentioned at the beginning, really like her books. I'd love to hear your thoughts on them, I'll probably read one of her books soon as I am super interested to read extreme horror from an author that is a woman. Back to Sick B*astards I'd probably read it if I read super fast hahaha but given that I have to pick and choose, I'll probably skip this one. Thanks for reading it so I don't have to :)

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I've not heard of her, I'll have to check her out. Thanks Michelle!

[@brn_dmg3757]

I agree with you Olly. Extreme horror books often lack substance. Try ''The City'' by SC Mendes. It's an extreme horror with noir elements, and the plot is pretty interesting too, a bit Lovecraftian.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I'll look that one up! Thanks for the recommendation

[@JB-nr7iy]

I'm not so much into the gruesome. The psychological aspect of horror is what's really scary. In my personal humble opinion Edit: I just got a copy of Sinister mix and I am looking forward to reading it. Thanks for the suggestion

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Agree - it's the psychological that gets under your skin and stays with you. Hope you enjoy Sinister Mix!

[@Jack-wu3hr]

My mileage varies a lot with this idea of EXTREME horror. I recently read two novellas by the same author, one a parody of Covid and one called Horror House of Perversion (a cross between a ghost story and a Texas Chainsaw sequel is I guess how I’d describe it), and they were fun in a trashy B-movie gross out sort of way. But otherwise, I tend to find what's referred to as “extreme horror” to be tacky and subliterary at best, and sicko fetish material at worst. There was a guy at a convention selling self-published novellas with titles like Rape Van and Snuff Film, with what were fetish models in extreme S&M poses on the covers, and I got in trouble with a Facebook group for asking if anyone was really surprised when this dude was found to be a creep. I don't even have a problem with such material existing, I just think that it should be sold under the table as porn.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yeah those titles do sound like red flags for creepiness! Horror House of Perversion sounds kind of fun though!

[@ellagoreyshorrorstories7524]

Author's name is Tim Miller, and he was sending d!ck pics to women. Just gross.

[@nessaarandur7740]

I highly recommend Full Brutal and Gone to See the River Man by Kristopher Triana. I also thought High Life by Matthew Stokoe was very interesting. I wonder if you would get more out of it than Cows. The characters are deplorable, but there is something about the every day disgusting grind of trying to 'make it' in Hollywood and the way that the main character and his friend react to something that happens that made it interesting to me. The event isn't even treated as a 'big thing', really, but the way it affects his friend's life (also - and I think purposely - treated as a bit of an after-thought) compared with the MC made it interesting to me.

[@lisag618]

I really liked Sinister Mix. Not read any Matt Shaw. I'm not an extreme horror fan particularly, but I do like some 'OTT' horror that could be labelled as such (it's hard to know where the boundaries are!). I liked The Con Season & Tribesmen by Adam Cesare. I read Exquisite Corpse a few years back and thought it was great - must reread that one as it's been a while.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Not read any Cesare yet, but I really need to. Very much looking forward to Exquisite Corpse!

[@tony_starch]

I like some extreme horror, but I find that I dislike the most popular ones that are advertised on TikTok. It’s exactly as you describe where the author comes up with the most shocking things they can think of, but the plot comes secondary. I find myself often bored by it because I can’t actually invest in the characters and story

[@backrowbrighton]

I have come to like my horror to be slow burn and subtle. I feel the works of Mr Shaw (know of them, never read them) are almost juvenile in their attempt to top each other in the extreme content. Who is the most bad of the baddest in this sub genre. Like so many quick hits it can swiftly become tedious. These novels are only possible today in the kindle universe, so they are almost a type of underground literature. The Horror section in your local Waterstones is small but it does have the more worthy stuff.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yes, I do suspect that the self publishing boom has in a way led to this kind of thing, with authors trying to outdo each other in the extremity of their work

[@sxatcychan1988]

I myself like the horror to be told like a joke, (setup and scare), but there is this one slow-burn creepypasta called "Penpals" that was unforgettable for me. Ever read that one?

[@danielsweet858]

Extreme horror quickly turns deadly dull. Gotta have a good plot & characters. I read a LOT of Splatter Punk in the 80s.. Think you will enjoy Exquisite Corpse quite a lot.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yeah I'm trying to get my head round the difference between splatterpunk and extreme horror and I'm not sure I have yet. Looking forward to Exquisite Corpse!

[@davidbrian6498]

To my way of thinking, splatterpunk tells a story which usually includes plenty of blood and mayhem, and yet the action is driven by a strong plot and well developed characters. Extreme horror basically sets out to shock the reader by depicting as many gross and unsavory acts as can be fitted on a page, usually with cardboard thin characters and little to no plot. Exquisite Corpse is ultra gruesome, but based on the strong story and almost literary writing I'd still classify it as splatterpunk rather than extreme. Or maybe literary splatter! :)

[@paulfillingham2958]

True extreme horror is actually things that really happened or show you the reality of a disturbed mind. I suggest if you want to read a truly disturbing set of books that show real extreme horror try Naked Lunch and Soft Machine by William Burroughs - the disturbing reality of a mind destroyed by over 30 years of heroine addiction.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Naked Lunch is definitely a disturbing read!

[@heloisaduarte4745]

I really enjoy your channel and I hope one day after I finish college be able to read and discuss one of the books that you have read/reviewed. This is just my opinion, not something for you to follow. I don't think you should say to people to "don't read" a book, you could just say "I didn't liked...". I just believe that when you say "don't read" you are just putting yourself in jeopardy for kind of nothing. We know there are good and bad books, and normaly, people follow the reviews just because they identify themselves with your "taste", but when you say "don't read..." it is like you are blocking something to happen, and that could bring negative things. Like I said, it is just my opinion and I will continue to watch and enjoy your videos. Thank you

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I do actually agree with that statement and I normally take great pains to avoid being that black and white in reviews. But occasionally a book annoys me sufficiently that let myself go a bit more than normal.

[@winterstorms5]

I see Sundial by Catriona Ward on your shelf , you read that one ?😂 I did. I kind of liked it. Will "check out" Sick B*tds by Matt Shaw. Have read a little of "Exquisite Corpse" by Poppy Z Brite and I loved it.🙈

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I haven't read Sundial yet, Hoping to get to it soon! Really looking forward to reading Exquisite Corpse soon

[@danielsweet858]

Also thought the first third of Terrifier 2 was dull as dishwater. Extreme violence with little suspense. Picked up pace after that tho. Also a bit too long for the story provided. Marketing can be everything. If folks threw up at this movie they had stomach flu.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I actually enjoyed the whole of that movie. I didn't even mind the length which really surprised me. But yes agree that marketing has played a huge part in the film's success.

[@danielsweet858]

@@CriminOllyBlog I was surprised when my niece took me to the cinema & we were the only two people in the audience. But this isn't exactly the cultural center of the Galaxy. 🙃 Back to the splatter punk movement it seems like many of those embraced the simple gross out aesthetic also. Have a great weekend! Way too cold here.🥶

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@danielsweet858 true! Keep warm! It’s getting chillier here but nothing like you have

[@mikehoke1028]

Pretty much anything by Edward Lee, Brian Keene & Bryan Smith is legit “Extreme Horror “ however sick bastards was indeed one of my faves

[@stews9]

Great commentary, Olly. Bravo.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Cheers!

[@speedotheguido1014]

Yeah I find splatterpunk or extreme horror type books tend to not be as well written or thoughtful but I do still enjoy them occasionally as a mindless simple read 😅

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I'm trying to sort out in my mind the difference between splatterpunk and extreme horror - I think there is one but I can't quite nail it down. In theory I like the idea of this kind of thing, but when I actually read it I find I don't enjoy it

[@BookStopsHere]

@@CriminOllyBlog How about Splatterpunk is somewhat counter cultural, a rebellion against horror as it was (all monsters and ghosts) while extreme horror has no interest in culture. It's not rebelling against anything, just being edgy for the sake of it.

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

There is some great early splatterpunk that actually makes you root for/lament the characters. Later extreme stuff I mostly read as slapstick comedy

[@speedotheguido1014]

I agree I'm not sure how you differentiate between the two. I think of splatterpunk as alittle less serious, more over the top. So like a Bhorror film I guess. I recommend Kristopher Triana. He has a very successful novel Gone to See the River Man. But his fist novel The Ruin Season is fantastic. Much more of a personal dark literary fiction with aspects of extreme horror

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

Yes, I got Gone to See the River Man very cheap on Kindle because I didn't have anything else to read and liked it way more than expected. Then I read Full Brutal and liked it just as much, but for different reasons. The dude can write, that's all there is to it. I will be checking out your recommendation and will also take this opportunity to mention David J Schow. His work was classified as splatterpunk early, but he really runs the gauntlet

[@Salaciousreader]

Ooh I feel slightly responsible for this after mentioning it on the discord 😂. Thanks for doing me a solid though, I’ll steer well clear of it!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

LOL! Yes you did remind me I had it so you’re entirely to blame! 😉

[@SynsBookNook]

I am not the biggest extreme horror fan myself. But I do love most other horror.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Me too!

[@alexaproffitt4640]

Stokoe’s High Life is a very solid book- disturbing and gross, but in a very different way. It’s definitely worth a read! :)

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@alexaproffitt4640 Ah maybe I'll give that a try

[@AmandasBooksandlife]

When you describe what the book was about i stated thinking about Texas chainsaw massacre from 1974. But maybe the book is nothing like that movie. And i haven´t read much extreme horror... But i would like to try some 😊

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I think there are some similarities in the presence of a family, but Texas Chainsaw Massacre is much better!

[@stephennootens916]

How incest still thought as shocking between the later works of Robert A Heinlein and Game Of Thrones you think the audience would find it tiring if anything. That can also be said about cannibalism if you don't have a good story with it why bother. Side thought how did he get it pass the Amazon guide lines?

[@CriminOllyBlog]

That's true, it's definitely a taboo that's lost some of its impact in recent years. Not sure how the Amazon guidelines cover things like this, but I suspect they veer away from anything that would feel like censorship.

[@stephennootens916]

@@CriminOllyBlog Well I know they toss their guidelines out for big authors like George R R Martin and V. C Andrews who write stories with siblings who are too close to each other but self publish authors have to be careful they don't go out the lines.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@stephennootens916 ah interesting

[@ejridge23]

I'm new to your channel and really enjoying your videos! I've read this and it's sequel 🤮 I've read a few now by Matt Shaw and other extreme horror writers (Edward lee and Jon Athan for example) and I literally don't know how he manages to get his work printed! He's had a film made of one of his novels which was crowdfunded. The worst thing is I end up wanting to read his stuff to see what total gumpf he comes up with next and then feeling guilty and sick about it 🤣

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thanks Emily! Really glad you're enjoying the channel. I think there is definitely an appeal to this kind of book, a fascination in seeing how far the author will go (and how much we can stand)

[@debbiestuckey2239]

Everyone has a genre they enjoy reading but to me extreme horror is not one I want to read. I love horror, zombie, serial killer, crazy cannibal killers and on and on. I get no enjoyment reading horrific details of someone doing something disgustingly cruel, it makes me sick because horrible things actually happen to people in real life and those psychos don’t need their activities glorified.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thanks Debbie - yes I think the difference between horror and extreme horror can be hard to pin down, but I think that aspect of cruelty can be part of it

[@MzIsrael77]

Too late haha, I've read it. First found Matt Shaw when I came across his book Don't Read. His extreme horror books kind of remind me how B movies are, if that makes sense.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

LOL And yes that does make sense, although I find B movies more fun lol

[@fiberartsyreads]

I think shock for shock sake can be fine if that’s what you’re wanting and expecting, but I just want a little something more. I don’t mind reading disturbing/shocking/disgusting things if the story itself is also pulling me in. I think most extreme horror just isn’t for me. Plus the amount of SA used in extreme horror (often written by men) is just a plot point I’m not interested in continuously reading, super lazy writing in my opinion. Brian Bowyer is someone I enjoy reading, his stories pull me right in even though they often have shocking content.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I think your point re SA is spot on. It's one of the many distasteful things about sub genre.

[@troytradup]

Olly, do you have a sense of the reading experience you're looking for in picking up a book described as extreme horror? Are you looking for insights into human depravity or to get a sort of horror-movie visceral thrill or is it something else? Maybe it's not definable at all, but I'm always curious why any reader gravitates toward any specific type of book.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yes, I'd say really it's that kind of horror movie experience that draws me in. I've actually recorded a video which will go up soon that talks about the difference between screen violence and on the page violence.

[@troytradup]

@@CriminOllyBlog Cool beans! 😀

[@natashasymcock7175]

Kristopher Triana is a great extreme horror author. As is Jack Ketchum and I didn't like The Slob either but Playground by Aron Beauregauard is fantastic, you may enjoy that one.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thanks!

[@mzcyberbat]

Try Roe vs wade. This was actually a good one.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

🤔

[@william3onfire]

Yes, more extreme horror reviews!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thanks William!

[@DDB168]

No not a fan but I still think you should try the novelisation of Showgirls. 😉

[@CriminOllyBlog]

That may be a shoo in for GarbAugust '23

[@lazyhippie6139]

I recently finished this one and honestly found it to be weak in shock value even. I don't mind disturbing for the sake of being disturbing. But this book was just dumb. Like you said, no substance. I couldn't get invested. So they are incestuous and cannibalistic... and what else do you have to say? Lol. Maybe I'm desensitized, but I didn't find it all that shocking or disturbing at all. I enjoyed Cows actually... I felt like it did have something to say and was so OTT, gross, and weird that it kept me reading because it wasn't predictable (to me at least). I know many don't like this one, but I actually found it more disturbing and effed up than Sick Bastards.

[@zacharycunningham1789]

Not extreme horror at all but definitely falls into the dirty ring camp (while being quite funny): Happy Mutant Baby Pills by the great Jerry Stahl. I could throw out his book Perv: A Love Story as well, but HMBP is far superior and spotlights Stahl’s writing and narrative skills better.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I've not heard of him, thanks for the recommendation!

[@tinkerpinkerton5449]

Hello, have you read a book called Sheepshagger? I can't remember the author I'm afraid and I can't find my copy anywhere. Anyway, it was pants so avoid it at all costs. 😊

[@CriminOllyBlog]

LOL yeah I won't google the title to try and find a copy!

[@johnbeeston2473]

never herd of it till now

[@kerrymoore5146]

I didn’t hate this book, i certainly thought it was better than Cows, at least the point or message the author was trying to convey was more evident than in Cows. I just found it quite obvious, I’d figured the “twist” out very early on.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yes agree re the twist - not subtle at all

[@lev8218]

For gory horror done right, read Graham Masterton.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yes, Masterton is often great

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

He is often hit or miss, but he hits well. Even though Prey is just a gory version of Dreams in the Witch House, it sticks the landing

[@kerilowman9257]

I have been loving these negative reviews! You are so spicy! Please keep them coming.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Ha! Thank you. Glad you're enjoying them!

[@BookStopsHere]

The idea of extreme horror is, to my mind, a nonsense in itself. That it has things like rape, cannibalism, incest, and other taboo topics is hardly the preserve of this niche. Literature is awash with it and in ways that will play longer on the mind than the cartoonish reduction it becomes in the hands of someone like Matt Shaw. Splatterpunk, in reality, died an uncharacteristically slow death around the turn of the millennium. It's hardly a surprise that its practitioners these days - or the majority of names that come to the fore - are self-published. Even in the movement's heyday, these tawdry works would likely have languished long in the slush pile of many a publisher, awaiting return or pulping. But Amazon (chiefly) has democratised the market and found a way to commercialise the slush. Shaw claims to do single drafts - as you've seen, it shows - and then he's off tapping his keyboard for the next half-formed idea crammed full of edge lord content. This is because those in this boat need to keep producing goods to sustain their niche (and captive audience) which means churning out title after title and flooding the virtual shelves. I often wonder if the people that read it and enjoy it do so in spite of how poorly written his work is, or whether they even see it. That you were recommended this drivel off the back of Heather Lewis's 'Notice' is an insult, to both Lewis and genuinely disturbing literature.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

That's a really excellent analysis of the situation. I completely agree that there is a huge gulf between this kind of book (whose authors have to constantly outdo themselves in how far they will go) and the genuinely disturbing kind (where a simple act in a single sentence can have huge impact)

[@alexaproffitt4640]

I read some good splatterpunk back in the day- but almost all of the “extreme horror” I find on Kindle is just awful and amateurish. I am not a fan of Shaw although I guess many do like his work - strikes me as rather derivative and predictable while trying to be shocking…not a good combo. 😆

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yeah it does seem like a sub genre where explicitness is prized over quality.

[@maxwashingtonmusic7000]

Interesting thoughts! Yeah, authors don’t have to worry about censors and budgets. I saw the extreme movie Martyrs. I didn’t like it. Society was fun. It was extreme here and there. I’ll check out Sinister Mix. I enjoyed Terrifier. I’m gonna watch the sequel soon. I heard that people are running out the theater, vomiting lol! The Art the Clown actor popped into some livestreams. He’s such a nice and polite guy in real life. Great vid! 👍👍👍🤡😈👻📘📘📘

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Thanks Max! I've yet to see Martyrs - not sure I'm brave enough!

[@brianbowyer1805]

Hey! Thanks so much for the SINISTER MIX shout-out, man! Awesome surprise. 😁🤘🍻

[@CriminOllyBlog]

My pleasure Brian!

[@littlewhiterabbit202]

I find it a little funny that some people can dismiss extreme horror just forgettable because there's nothing psychological about it. When it comes to me I don't care about horror book\movies characters because they're just disposable for me what staya with me is the gruesome nature of the kills that they go through or the off the walls that are exposed on these books. but I will say I wish they had all this but be just 25% more realistic I mean at least give the killer depth but as for the victim s I don't care about them or the dumb mistakes they make that lead them to the circumstances they put themselves in. Give me brilliant killer, one that can be Relatable Can you find yourself agree What the things that he does, That sticks with you and not like Dexter, that's just lame, but someone who dose terrible things because they enjoy the screams and control.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@GreyishHouse 😂

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

I mean, be as extreme as you want man, that's sooo edgy, but CAN YOU WRITE??? This is where so many of them come up short, sadly, because I would love to see another Wetbones or In Darkness Waiting by John Shirley, or even another like Brite's Exquisite Corpse. There's a guy named Kristopher Triana (sp?) who is more recent that I dl'd to the Kindle because it was cheap, but I ended up enjoying it much more than expected

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I have one of Triana's to read soon. As well as Wetbones actually!

[@kevsplitterskull3209]

Please let me know what you think! Or should I say...all of us.

[@MarkGraves5]

The twist at the end of Sickest Bastards is absolutely fantastic.

[@M-J]

Feeling good about myself for not even wanting to read it. Not even a smidge. 😄 I always appreciate your candor. - 📚MJ

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Yeah it really doesn't seem like your kind of book

[@Kikilang60]

James Lee Burke is considered to be some sort of treasure by many writers in America. Stephen King speaks glowing of Burke. You read one of his books, and it left a bad taste on your palette. I was wondering why.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I wouldn't say it left a bad taste, just that I didn't enjoy it as much as I was expecting to - it was one of those books where I felt like I didn't fully connect with the story and characters

[@Kikilang60]

@@CriminOllyBlog Burke write to an audience that misses a part of America that never was. Thanks.

[@queen_in_yellow]

Thank you...these are "shock value" books. I just can't read these. I feel absolutely silly reading them. They aren't entertaining. You just sit there and think " omg, how f-ed up" the whole time. It's not a story. Not to me anyway. People seem to love these in the horror community, but definitely NOT me.

[@wendyvilla2904]

🖤💚

[@sonyasluss9724]

Bad writing, I avoid them for that reason.

[@jennamason4154]

Over use of the most base of shock taints the whole story. It's turned into a piece of trash that upsets, and nauseates the reader.

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I would agreed with that!

[@jackseney7906]

You have already positively reviewed "Let's Go Play At The Adams" and that is extreme enough for me 👍 I have been haunted by that one for more than forty years since age 12 when I read it too young 😄😸 Many of these newer books are just piling on gore, torture and sex assault and it's no different than an adult comic book. Having said that I am glad if there is a market for such outsider books that is not under the control of big-money publishers and distributors

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I do think Let's Go Play at the Adams' is far more effective than something like this. It's a book that has stayed with me too. And yes, agree that it's good that it's so easy for authors to publish their work independently

[@stews9]

Regarding Extreme Horror - Being explicit and shocking for effect outside of context is juvenile, and far easier than learning to write story, good narrative, and complex, relatable characters readers care about. Yes, the harsh stuff can be presented with skill, too, but too often writers of so-called Extreme Horror rely only on the shock value of being disgusting. That won’t do. This is why I will gladly accept any content no matter how revolting IF it is presented in the context of a good story well told, but if grossing out the reader, or shocking us, or going on paragraph and page in detail about something gory is all that's going on, it's boring. Horror means horripilation, so yeah, making people's skin crawl is part of the game, but simply producing a grotesque, twisted, and frankly debauched document is a poor joke by an imbecile. There has to be a story and people involved in it, not just text.

[@Galiboo_13]

Splatterpunk is not for you then

[@CriminOllyBlog]

Oh I don't necessarily mind splatterpunk.

[@myrarucker7953]

Ick!!gross! Not my cup of coffee!!

[@CriminOllyBlog]

I thought that might be the case!

[@myrarucker7953]

@@CriminOllyBlog hahahaha

[@CriminOllyBlog]

@@myrarucker7953 you get to know your regular commenters! 😊