F-111 vs MiG-23! | with Jeff Guinn

[@aaronquak2139]

Testament to the Aardvark: Benny Murdani, Indonesian Defence Minister during the East Timor crisis recounted to his Australian counterpart that whenever his Cabinet colleagues raised unwise complaints about the Australians, all he needed to do was to say that "the Australians have a bomber that can put a bomb through that window on to this table here in front of us", and the conversation would end there.

[@sonnyburnett8725]

Back in 1975 I was driving a long open stretch of highway in New Mexico north of Roswell and glanced at my outside rear view mirror, as I looked back at the road it hit me there was an F-111 in the mirror bearing down on our left side. I only had time to yell LOOK and pointed to where he was going to suddenly appear to my girlfriend and I. He zoomed by going like a bat outa Hell and pulled up into a steep climb. No doubt out of Cannon AFB in Clovis, I figured it must have been one of their favorite things to do along that highway.

[@billmartin8874]

😁It was......😀

[@chrisschmidt146]

Oh for sure it was! I was stationed there back then as a Weapons Troop. The Range we used was out that way. Fun times a long time ago.

[@daveblevins3322]

I remember my commander telling me the "standard" mission at night for our F-111's was TFR at 250 ft., and a/s of 500 kts. I know y'all remember that little switch on the center console that was labeled "RIDE". Soft, medium, hard. 👀

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

What was the max speed when doing TF?

[@bigbill74scots]

Very calm way of describing nearly becoming a tent peg at 600knts. Respect.

[@Fng_1975]

“Tent peg.” 😂 More like a shredded beer can. 550 knots + mountain = beer can size pieces.🥶 No penetration what so ever. “That’s what she said.” 😂🤣😂

[@manofchaitea6904]

or a 80,000 pound lawn dart

[@robw3027]

Always great to hear from F-111 aircrew.

[@WoodsintheBurg94]

“Operation Frequent Manhood”, great term for things you do when you are young and feel invincible.

[@kenterry9003]

We were on an exercise from Upper Heyford with 111Es in Portugal in 82. We were the Floggers attacking the 6th fleet in the Med. The guys laid a stream of chaff across the Gib straight so it looked closed on radar.

[@jamescraft7509]

I was also at Heyford in '82 working transient alert. Loved my time there.

[@Josh-hr5mc]

These interviews never get old

[@HardcoreFourSix]

The minimum SCP (Set Clearance Plane) for the TFR was 200'. Flying 100' AGL (manually-no TFR autopilot) takes balls of steel! Many F-111As at MHAFB turned into "dirt darts" for various reasons. Stretching the envelope is very risky.

[@theirthereandtheyre2947]

Got an incentive flight in an F-111F back in 1993. Hell of a ride.

[@manofchaitea6904]

You lucky mother fluffer

[@mw7288]

To know more about the training programme against Soviet aircraft, I recommend the book "Red Eagles " by Steve Davies.

[@darcyhildebrand9286]

The MiG 23 was not well thought of in that book.

[@tamw]

Love the interviews with this guy, always wanting more when it ends! :)

[@scottdunkirk8198]

We went to the museum and it was really neat.

[@thelmaviaduct]

What a top fella he is, all been great that i've watched tbf

[@danieldunlap4077]

Just great another KZbin series I'm going to have to binge listen to.

[@howardmccauley7878]

Where are men like Jeff at these days? So calm and matter of fact. Imagine being at a barbecue at Jeff’s home and just listening to the stories this hero lived in real life.6

[@Aircrewinterview]

He is a top bloke.

[@FlyingDutchmanPodcast]

Wait Jeff is having a BBQ oh yea I’m in I will bring some Hangar 24 Betty IPA

[@johngregory4801]

I lived in Boise in the early 70's. I well remember the day my Boy Scout troop visited Mountain Home AFB. Walking around the F-111's was AWESOME for a 12 yo. Just down the road was an abandoned missile base that had been stripped before the land was opened up for, say, go-karts.

[@davidruddick3346]

Top guy really talks with passion and huge knowledge 👍

[@kingGEAR21]

Awesome interview, thank you!

[@mkmdexplorationparanormal5610]

He mentioned the toss bombing method, also used by the RAF Buccaneer crews, interesting hearing his stories ☺

[@simonpotter7534]

I believe the RAF V Bomber force used to use the same technique for nuclear weapons drops to reduce blast forces on the aircraft post detention. The practice was stopped, even though it was successful, when it was realized the stress damage being caused to the air frame. I'm sure that the designers never had in mind a bomber being thrown around like a fighter. It still boggles the mind that these guys would have fly through hundreds of miles of enemy territory to delivery their weapons and the explosion of the bombs might destroy the aircraft. It certainly sounded like a one way trip for the crews.

[@mkmdexplorationparanormal5610]

@@simonpotter7534 it certainly was a crazy method but very effective! I asked a GR4 pilot about this, regarding dropping a bomb and head back west, but don't have high hopes of finding anything to come back home to, I really can't imagine what was going through there minds when they got the scramble armed with a nuke, it's crazy.

[@ronhaworth5471]

Thorough professional.Salute.

[@johnhickman7922]

A CONSTANT PEG MiG-21 is on display at the Elgin Armament Museum in Florida. I believe it’s “Bort 85.”

[@timothywitt4864]

Jeff was describing "buddy lasing" when someone on the ground or in a different aircraft lased the target and a different aircraft delivered the bomb. You needed to know where the laser was positioned because if you came in from the wrong direction, the bomb might guide on the laser direct (and the guys doing the lasing) instead of the laser spot on the target. Some ground FACs were killed when an airplane tossed a bomb and it saw the laser instead of the spot.

[@budyeddi5814]

Holy shit!

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

I’m not holding the laser.

[@keithstewart1914]

More with Jeff!

[@MrAndrew1953]

Could it just be the F111 - particularly later models was a very impressive but underestimated aircraft? Together with the Phantom - 2 incredible aircraft of their era.

[@tasmanmcmillan1777]

Long range, high speed medium bomber that could fly extremely low. It was perfect at its job

[@pjotrtje0NL]

At 1:54 he’s talking about the “petting zoo” at Nellis AFB.

[@xres1329]

I flew a plane charter flight with G.A. aircraft from Phonix to Farmington in about summer 80 or 81. I was overtaken on my right 1000 ft lower by a shiny MiG 21 with USAF insignia. I was not trying to catch up with him on my Cessna 182.

[@stitchjones7134]

One crashed in our back paddock in Tenterfield when I was young bloke.

[@dsplace0531]

Super interesting, thanks for oploading.

[@couchfighter]

The SOVIET PROGRAM IS MENTIONED AND EXPLAINED IN THE BOOK "SIERRA HOTEL" Written 20 years ago.

[@Boeddel]

If you want to experience sitting in a MIG-23 there is one at the war museum in Kiev...

[@KD5XB]

There is at least one more, somewhat closer to me.

[@PhilipMReeder]

Damn. I was just in Kiev. I wanted to go to the museum but it was flipping 20 degrees below zero. Next time....

[@MegaPunisher777]

Been there, done that...

[@dkoz8321]

Foreign technology assessment and exploitation program. I.E. American + Allied pilots fly Russian aircraft as aggressors and evaluate the aircraft. The name of the program is 'Constant Peg'.

[@KRGruner]

Constant Peg... I kept hearing about it when I was flying at Mountain Home in the early 80s, but was never read into the program at the time, before leaving for Lakenheath.

[@timothywitt4864]

USAF general crashed one of the MIG23s in Nevada and was killed. The thing I most remember about flying against the -23 at CONSTANT PEG in the F-111 was it's rate of acceleration. While it wasn't faster at the top end than the F-111, it sure could get up to speed faster. It resembled an F-111 and our eyeballs were calibrated to an F-111 sizewise. It was a real eye opener when we did a visual ranging exercise with the Mig since it would be much much closer than we thought.

[@KRGruner]

@@timothywitt4864 MG Bond. Anyway, the -23 could out-accelerate even an F-15 in the trans-sonic region. That was about all that was great about it, though. Most countries who bought and used it were pretty disappointed with it, as a whole.

[@nobodyspecial7185]

My dad was tac eval at the 48th in lakenheath back in the 60's along with his best friend... We were all family.. my dad died in 69 and six months later his buddy Died in a 111 doing low-level.at Nellis.

[@damiangrouse4564]

“Mountain Goat”...memories (bomb nav) ‘77-82.

[@tntcart]

81-2002.... MSgt USAF AMMO RET.

[@TheBlkpilot]

Stationed at MO for 2 1/2 years. Enjoyed the experience and it made me a confident and experienced crew chief.

[@bobsnyder3309]

MIG 23 was really easy to identify on the warning receiver. Their radar has a unique sound.

[@Paladin1873]

In 1984 Lt General Robert M. Bond was killed on a practice mission while flying a MiG 23 at Groom Lake. He was the vice commander of Air Force Systems Command (AFSC) and about to retire. Air Force policy at the time normally required senior officers to be accompanied by a co-pilot, along with a lengthy checkout on the aircraft. But the MiG was single-seat aircraft, and his orientation pror to his flight was very brief. During the mission the aircraft's afterburners failed to disengage, forcing him to eject. The ejection proved fatal. To my knowledge, why he was ever allowed to fly the aircraft has never been publicly admitted.

[@gazof-the-north1980]

He was a 3 star General. Thats why he was allowed to fly it!

[@Paladin1873]

@@gazof-the-north1980 I was told by my boss, an O6 fighter pilot himself, that General Bond had some special experience in Soviet aircraft, though I've never been able to confirm this. Each time a general is killed while flying an aircraft, the USAF comes out with a new policy. Since generals make these policies, they are subject to morph over time until the next one is killed.

[@gazof-the-north1980]

@@Paladin1873 Given the time (1984) and the location (Tonapah) of the Generals fatal joyride - think the fear was it would leak/reveal the highly secret (at that time) F-117!

[@Paladin1873]

@@gazof-the-north1980 Possibly, I don't know. We often heard rumors of advanced aircraft, but could never confirm any of them. Several air weapon controllers I worked with a few years later told me about seeing high speed tracks on their monitors during this same time period that indicated an aircraft was flying at very high Mach numbers, well beyond the capabilities of any existing operational or known experimental aircraft (the X-15 had long since been retired). The scuttlebutt was that it was part of Project Aurora, a phantom program still surrounded in mystery.

[@WillKinton]

Man, I wanted to hear more about his experiences flying against MiG-23s! The name of the program was CONSTANT PEG

[@thefieldphoneguy8254]

The petting zoo at Nellis AFB!

[@dankuettel5063]

Didn't they have the older version of the Mig23 being tested against ours vs the later version which was quite maneuverable?

[@JG-dx5wi]

I believe so, they USAF did not have the definitive MLD version which had more power, less weight and better maneuverability

[@purebloodheretic4682]

I live in a Small Town called Guyra, it is 1330 mts/ 4350 ft Elevation it is the Known to be the Highest Town in Australia, & Unfortunately also known for being the Crash Site of 2x F-111 Aircraft in 1977 & 1993

[@Ripper669]

That museum is the Petting Zoo...

[@rskeyesful]

Jeezzzzzz, that would pucker me up even if I were just Reading that story.

[@andrewfranklin7773]

Love this guy.

[@zofe]

Mig-23 ML from 1978 is a world of difference above and beyond the 1974 heavy, weak and clumsy predecessor "Mig-23".

[@wigon]

Interesting info about the Mig-23. I guess it goes without saying that our F-111's and their crews, did a pretty good job slipping past the Libyan radar and fighter patrols (who often used Mig-23's) back in the 80's. It's a shame that the Airforce never replaced their EF-111's. Those were some incredible planes. But back to the Mig-23, I do love watching videos of Syrian Mig-23's pounding the hell out of ISIS and Al-Nusra positions. For that type of combat they seem to perform fairly well and have the acceleration to quickly get out of reach of AAA guns (well most of the time). They just seem like very robust old war birds.

[@pjotrtje0NL]

The Mig-23BN and MiG-27 were quite OK for AtoG, indeed. The flight profile is a lot safer than that of the interceptor!

[@kcallen2001]

I've known you for several decades, GuinnBob. I did not know this story. Rim.

[@robertmastnak581]

F 111, briliant, great bomber plane...

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

Who thumbs this down?! Who are these people?!

[@PHUSHEY]

I would have really liked to know why the BN didn't see the mountain on the scope?

[@jackdonald5061]

Love his airplane thank f your service

[@michaelpond6386]

You will forever have F-111F envy. I worked on As and F models . Was on A models at Takhli and Nellis , the F was at Mountain Home. We were really disappointed in the A as compared to the F. Model T to Aston Martin DB-5.

[@RaV591]

Think his account of the MiG-23 might be a tad bit biased

[@lanselithgow5865]

What aircraft were they flying?

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

I think that evaluation of the 23 is a bit underestimating. The soviets used it as an aggressor to train the crews of and evaluate the mig 29 and su 27, and from what I know the instructors had greater than 1:1 kill ratios.

[@magoid]

The Americans must had grabbed on of the very first models of the -23, and those weren't great. By the time the -29 and Su-27 entered operation, the MLD model was operational, and those models can indeed turn well, as the South Africans discovered in the Angolan Bush War with a earlier model.

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

@@magoid ah thank you for that info!

[@patrickflohe7427]

@@magoid We had more than one…

[@jasonhalil2591]

I believe they were pulled from air combat in the Vietnam conflict after one was shot c own by a farmer with an old 3.03 rifle!! Apparently the bullet destroyed the stator blades leading to detonation of the port engine - a freak incident - $70 million aircraft shot down by a 50cent bullet, extreme low level flying has more than one hazard !.

[@thefrecklepuny]

So, the 'Flogger' a worse fighter (performance wise) than the air-to-ground Aardvark!

[@AvengerII]

The MiG-23 generally doesn't have a good reputation. There are stories that the later production MiG-23s had better handling and were more reliable but trying to convince the Libyans and Syrians of that would be a HUGE challenge! The US also lost 1, perhaps 2 officers flying MiG-23s in accidents. One of them was Gen. Bond. (Shaken martini jokes aside, his name WAS Robert Bond.) The export versions of most Soviet designs were vastly inferior to the Russian versions in at least the avionics. The The Soviets didn't want their electronic secrets (radar, ECM, fire control) lost to the West if the West recovered debris after battle or someone defected with a MiG to the West. The Belenko MiG-25 defection was a HUGE intelligence windfall for the West. The Soviets wanted to minimize chances of that happening again but they had at least 1-2 other Russian guys defect with equipment including a MiG-29 in the 1980s. The Bekaa Valley "turkey shoot" and the F-14/Soviet swingwing encounters of 1981 and 1989 did NOT paint good pictures of the Su-22 and MiG-23 as competent fighters or say much to bolster confidence in Soviet tactics and equipment.

[@TheGranicd]

@@AvengerII Su-22 is not a fighter for starters its for ground atack. F14 incounter with MiG-23 didnt not include BVR fight. F14s fired first.

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

Probably in low level, high speed envelopes, without weapon load it is true. Otherwise, while the Flogger seemed to be a maintenance and budget nightmare, it DID perform better than the Fishbeds.

[@AvengerII]

@@TheGranicd That doesn't change the fact that on AT LEAST one interception in 1981, the Libyan Air Force flew Fitters against American F-14s. You CAN'T deny that. And one of them DID fire on the F-14 patrol. You're revising history and not accepting the facts if you deny the reality of that situation. They WERE in international waters, not the BS Quaddafi claimed, and were behaving hostily.

[@TLTeo]

The later Floggers did receive large aerodynamics improvements from the ML and MLD series, but yes the early models (which as far as I know is that the US got their hands on) were notoriously mediocre performers.

[@dat_spartan_gamer7322]

Constant peg was the name of the mig program

[@DrittAdrAtta]

Must have been the very early and shortlived version of the MiG-23, the S or SM with the R-27 engine. The M and MF models with the R-29 engine, which BTW is a beast of a turbojet that goes from idle to full power in 3-4 seconds, outaccelerate the f-16 and are a different story. Their max. g load is 8g, not 5g as the early monkey versions. Generally, the MiG-23 is probably the most underrated MiG ever. The latest incarnation - the MLD could give the f-16 a run for its money in a dogfight. From Wikipedia: Dutch pilot Leon van Maurer, who had more than 1,200 hours flying F-16s, flew against MiG-23MLs from air bases in Germany and the U.S. as part of NATO's aerial mock combat training with Soviet equipment. He concluded the MiG-23ML was superior in the vertical to early F-16 variants, just slightly inferior to the F-16A in the horizontal, and had superior BVR capability.

[@DavidPT40]

Interesting, I wasn't familiar with this. The only part I'm not surprised by is the BVR capability, as the F-16 was not designed with it. That came in the late 80s I believe.

[@olivialambert4124]

I guess the F-111B would have been fine after all, considering the F-14 spent so much time intercepting the Mig-23.

[@gregparrott]

As best I understand it, ALL of the F-111 aircraft, both domestic and possibly even foreign (e.g. Australia) have long been decommissioned. If true, that's a shame as the F-111 has a unique set of attributes that no other aircraft today can match. Have they all been decommissioned?

[@timothywitt4864]

No Air Force flies F-111s anymore. NASA had one they used for research but I don't know if it's still flying.

[@OuttaHere7]

Gregory Parrott: FYI the F-111 is a lousy design and a Pentagon blunder and just one reason the USAF and Pentagon despised Col. John R. Boyd who revolutionized modern warfare. I recommend you read his biography written by Robert Coram.

[@timothywitt4864]

@@OuttaHere7 Everybody can have an opinion. I flew the F-111 for a number of years and it could do things that no other aircraft in the inventory could do. Like every aircraft design, it is a compromise. The F-111 was optimised to deliver bombs low level, at high speeds and it could do this better than any other aircraft. The original concept was flawed in that it was conceived as a do everything (well) aircraft for both the Navy and the Air Force. It couldn't and never did.

[@andrewwalker3756]

Yes sadly the RAAF no longer flies the F111.

[@alexjohnward]

RAAF buried or decommissioned all planes as they were nuclear delivery capable and too costly to maintain.

[@PICLex]

Dear Aircrew Interview, could you interview some of the 'other guys', ie Russians, anyone flying the MiG's or the Sukhoi's etc. Please and Thx.

[@Mugdorna]

PICLex There is a German guy who was interviewed.post reunification he was trained on MiG-29 and flew until they were retired.

[@cameraman655]

They probably could and have attempted such interviews. Perhaps there is a reason as to why they are not taking. I too would love to hear their stories and perspectives.

[@michaelhart6318]

The only F-111 worth it's weight was the "F" model flown out of Lakenheath (LN) of the 48th TFW. All other versions of the F-111. particularly the FB-111 assigned to SAC, were piles of s--t.

[@stephenpage-murray7226]

The upgraded F-111C’s with Pave Tack sure weren’t ‘piles of s-t’

[@mikaelbiilmann6826]

Wonder why they were called F-111 and F-117? Shouldn't they be A-111 and A-117? 🤔

[@russcole5685]

F111 was designed as a fighter bomber replacement, but it was later found better as, and its role changed, it evolved with the times instead of being phased out. Amazing airframe

[@tomsmith3045]

Robert McNamara, the guy that made Vietnam worse, had an idea to save money by making a really expensive airplane that could do everything. Kinda like making one vehicle that could be a personal transportation vehicle and a dump truck. Well, anyone with an engineering background or a rudimentary understanding of aerodynamics knows this is impossible, but software people and accountants aren't always real great with the hard sciences. So they built the multi-purpose aircraft and it ended up being a great low level bomber. Completely useless as a fighter or interceptor, but a great bomber. Lowest loss rate to enemy fire than any aircraft that flew in Vietnam, and later served in first gulf war. It should have been known as B-111.

[@mikaelbiilmann6826]

@@tomsmith3045 Thanks for the explanation. Wonder if they did the same with the development of the F-35? They built 3 versions of it, which probably defeat the original goal of a multi- purpose multi- service plane.

[@tomsmith3045]

@@mikaelbiilmann6826 It's a great question. There seem to be similarities to me, but others say that it's not as bad. The F-35 is slower than most other fighters, and shorter range than most attack planes, so it is a compromise in some ways.

[@mikaelbiilmann6826]

@@tomsmith3045 Thanks for your exlanation. So kinda like the Russians have the MiG-29 for the short range defense, and the Su-27 family for the frontline defense? The US have the F-15 as air dominance and the F-35 for when the russian air defences are down to go in and finish the job? Of course along with the B-bombers.

[@allin4395]

Constant Peg

[@cameraman655]

Great interview, no BS, a straight up professional. Shocked to see no anti-US rants from Russians and their Euro mates here, usually, these types of vids bring them out in droves.

[@ljubomirculibrk4097]

Mac, want a rant... Just give a rest, do you think US is superpower. Only if haw been more onest and humble in your "win" couple of decades ago. True democracy and light in the world, no... Just money and power, insane dream of endles gluteny US is just a front for multinationals and mil complex, its long gone. My friend read what one of your presidents read in 1950s, Eisenhauer.

[@kindanyume]

Theres damn good reason why the 15E was created...

[@patrickflohe7427]

BAHAHAHA What might that be?

[@yoski203]

thought some mig23s had some kills in iraq

[@burnttoast111]

@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj "Dont talk crap." Don't act like you? Drivel. Yaaaawn.

[@AdamAdamHDL]

Yes they did. Even against Iranian f-14s.

[@aaronquak2139]

It was said that the -MLD was superior to early vipers in sustained turn rate at all altitudes, and had superior BVR capability. The way to fight the MLD in an early model viper was to keep your airspeed above 350 kts and stay down in the weeds, but even then it was not a sure thing.

[@lcskibird]

Crazy shit.....

[@НиколайМандрыченко]

Дурак может сравнивать миг23 и ф111 совершенно разные самолёты,сходство одно,изменяемая стреловидность крыла

[@bestofthebest3821]

mig 23 vs f111 and 25 jet fighters behind it and an AWACS americans dont engage unless they outnumber enemy 25 to 1,,,,americans dont go to war if they have not prior bombing the hell enemy air defenses safely with tomohawk from 1500 km away or with drones safely flown on a desk with a joystick...

[@dukecraig2402]

The only thing that's an even bigger joke than your comment is your meme name, "best of the best" 🤣🤣🤣🤣. OMG what a joke, you don't really think that about yourself do you?

[@bestamerica]

' very beautifully american F-111 / F-117... come on america company can make it many more F-111 / F-117 with better speeding up, little bigger size, more mile range... new is F-111/ F-117 superfighters

[@ЕВГЕНИСТЕФАНОВ-б1ы]

MIG-23 MLD is the best 🇷🇺

[@d-rob5513]

🤣🤣🤣

[@KirstineTermansen-ct5tq]

You were on wrong ground,

[@alaminnxt6281]

No thanks and I have a rocket pilot 😊 now sleep

[@j.wagner8639]

Bring the air force millennials kids here please..

[@ianturpin9180]

The problem with the 111 was side by side seating

[@timothywitt4864]

Depends on the mission. For what the F-111 was tasked to do, side by side was better. Air to Air, I agree--tandem is better.

[@alexjohnward]

111 was a fast bomber not a fighter

[@stephenmoore7155]

@@alexjohnward think there was a planned Naval fighter version but it got canned ,programme eventually led to the F14

[@rickabell2840]

Navy Requirement like the A-6 and the failed A-12.

[@anngo4140]

He looks a bit like John McCain III.

[@Zip104]

"SH"

[@johnwhorfin5150]

this guy googled his whole story. DISLIKE

[@qanononabong8491]

Ill bet you, today, this guy wears a mask inside of Walmart.

[@garyspeed8961]

someones got brains and balls !

[@Fifty8day]

Get rid of that horrible mic fluffy you don’t need it !