F-35, Top Gun and Finland - Colonel (retd) Scott Davis Part 1

Let's talk fighter jets, in two parts! Scott Davis, callsign "Lurch", is a fighter pilot with over 3600 flight hours in the F-15, F-16, F-18 and F-22 fighters. He's also attended and instructed at the TOPGUN courses in both US Navy and US Air Force. He now works for Lockheed Martin in the Nordics and he came on our show to talk to us about his career and the F-35, which is the new fighter jet for the Finnish Air Force.
In this first part of the series we talk about Scott's career through TOPGUN schools and what it was like to write the playbook for the first 5th generation fighters. We also discuss the differences between generations and especially how the 4th and 5th generation airframes differ. What's dog fighting like in a 4th generation versut 5th generation airplane?
SECOND PART HERE: • Part 2: F-35, Top Gun,...
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[@66lesjo]

Great interview and guest. Peace to our Finish brothers from an ex British soldier.

[@polhokustaa4989]

Cool guy! He also spoke very decent Finnish!

[@toniokkolin4796]

Hattu nousee taistelijaparille kielitaidosta. Lisää vaan mielenkiintoisia ulkkis vieraita ja mielenkiintoisia aiheita.👍

[@PrimarchX]

Top Gun gets all the love. But Red Flag is another hallmark program of US air combat.

[@golddigger8759]

He indeed spoke (and pronounced) near fluent Finnish! Respect 🤜🤛

[@RockerFinland]

The guest is so cool! This has to be one of my favourite episodes (like the one with Theo Boyrie / Combat Arms Channel)

[@zonacrs]

Thank you for sharing that. It was one of the most engaging interviews I have seen in a very long time. I'm pretty sure you only scratched the surface of the stories that retired Colonel has to tell. What an interesting Gentleman.

[@mikkoveijalainen7430]

Todella sujuvaa ja mielenkiintoista ilmasotahenkistä tarinaa. Kiitoksia.

[@mightyfinland8118]

Kiitoksia! Pian tulee kakkososa!

[@apuuvah]

Great podcast. A man who knows his stuff and has lived in Finland. Nice.

[@janiikavalko4046]

@@apuuvah and u decide who knows and who doesnt and are above these guy$?

[@jmlaasonen]

Talking about call signs: one of the coolest must be Obi2 (or Obi-Two) in UK. Those who know they know...

[@golddigger8759]

WOW, what a career he had!!!

[@ZeAngrySnowmongol]

Drinking game: You drink everytime when someone says Top Gun 😎😁

[@petteripori7404]

Timanttista settiä täälläkin kertaa! Ja lontoo taittuu Ville&Villeltä erinomaisen sujuvasti!

[@mightyfinland8118]

Kiiiiitos!

[@LRRPFco52]

I’m dying over here after that Lurch story. A 36” inseam is really long, so imagining him in USAF dress As with 26” high waters is absolutely hilarious, especially having to show up for the Hughes award.

[@EggwardEgghands]

Without having listened longer than a few mins into the episode; the F-35 is the only contender in the HX-program that could fill the requirement for support until 2060. That alone weighs a lot in the final choice.

[@henafoo]

I remember that both F35 and the Gripen filled the requirements and thus got tested further.

[@perelfberg7415]

Gripen did aswell. But the most definiting factor was that a fight would be done in a vacuum Finland all alone. The chosen fighter was deemed the most survivable in that scenario. Sadly it also totally negated the strongest argument for gripen as sweden could never not be involved in a conclict in the nordic territory. Eather way it was not bad choice in the end. It the price stays. But with norway as an example that does not speak in favour of it. With the trend of 6gen fifhters bow and the NGAD being questioned one can ask if the very long service life with be the preferred one. As of now its fine but it a very limited platform that can not easily take changes.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@henafoo The Gripen placed the lowest of all contenders in H-X, with scores so low they were not published by Finland. It did not even approach the threshold requirements in any of the 5 evaluation areas. The only contender that came close was the Super Hornet, but it did not meet the overall threshold of 4/5, registering 3.81/ 4. F-35A total scoring was 4.47/5. Swedish media revealed that the Gripen score in H-X was 2.8/5. Finland was very smart in leveraging the prospects of the Gripen being awarded to put pressure on Lockheed to sweeten the deal even more for Finland, even though Finnish Air Force had really pretty much decided it was going with F-35A back in 2014.

[@henafoo]

@@LRRPFco52 Of the 5 offers to the HX, 3 offers got to final evaluation phase. F-35, Gripen and F-18 super hornet. So no it was not the lowest as two didn't even get to the final phase. Also the document put out by finnish defence ministery, the scoring was not included. So I'm going to consider with a block of salt any scoring given out by other sources.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@henafoo I followed H-X throughout the entire process from 2014-2021, with an acute eye to details. The Rafale F4 and Typhoon were eliminated early due to refusal to do any industrial sharing, plus the unit costs for each of those is in the 150-168 million Euro unit flyaway, over 200 million unit program costs. F-35A is $77.9m in Lot 14, while Finnish Block 4 F-35As will be $83m Unit Flyaway. It was an extremely detailed and well-run evaluation that placed the performance requirements into 5 major categories. Those results were in fact recorded with overall scores, the top 2 of which were published.

[@Tbone1492]

Great Podcast. When i lived in Alaska. They would scramble them atleast #10 times a year. They love pushing the boundary!

[@lentojatka]

Tää oli yksi parhaista lentoaiheisista videoista joita olen nähnyt. Mielenkiintoisia yksityiskohtia esim. 5gen vs 4gen hävittäjien kohtaamisesta.

[@mightyfinland8118]

Loistavaa kuulla!

[@gaudin5573]

Part 2, when? Really good guest can't wait for more!

[@mightyfinland8118]

Tomorrow! Thanks!

[@mikeh2772]

Cool guy with good stories.

[@apuuvah]

AI stealth drone wingmen will start flying with 5th generation, but that was the first thing that came to mind about 6th generation.

[@tonykraft2649]

Scott Davis, it sounds like we might have been in KEF at the same time. I hung out at the FIS bar quite frequently

[@anthonykaiser974]

I forget who, but it was on former F14 RIO Ward Carroll's channel when he interviewed a TOPGUN guy: one word, don't ask.

[@lohikarhu734]

i also watch those naval aviation guys, like Growler jams, and others...so 'Top Gun' is quite low on my list of "authoritative sources"! And, growing up in a military family (even my Mother worked in "8 Bombing & Gunnery" in WW II!), i learned very early that "Hollywood" and "military experiences" were not very similar...

[@Pectopah123]

No pain no gain!

[@aksuahkera4052]

Tier 1 guest! Good catch.

[@mightyfinland8118]

Thanks!

[@TeeDee87]

Tilattu kanava. Tää oli ihan helvetin mielenkiintoinen.

[@mightyfinland8118]

Nättii, kiitti! Lisää tulee!

[@jeremycaufield8605]

I'm interested in what a 5th gen vs 5th gen fighter looks like, I would imagine radar missiles are pretty much useless, and it comes down to the merge, maneuverability, heatseekers and guns.

[@duhni4551]

I think it goes down to loitering missiles and trying to use other radar systems to find the foe to guide those loitering missiles to the assumed direction where the enemy could be.

[@lintu25]

Wow whatta man.

[@ramonpunsalang3397]

Where was the discussion about the F-35?

[@mightyfinland8118]

More in the next part, coming out tomorrow!

[@mauri.m]

Can it be expressed as every next generation is designed to beat the former one? Every generation has of course its own lifespan.

[@mightyfinland8118]

Good point!

[@Troobeli69]

It's kinda funny? I have done my mandatory military service 1 year + 3 times a peace keeping mission 1 year each. Seen alot, done some and still... I feel I'm just a regular civilian.

[@jussikolehmainen6310]

Mistähän syystä tossa 11 minuutin kohdalla on leikattu klippi pois kun olis juuri puhunu 6 gen hävittäjistä?

[@toniokkolin4796]

🤫 hys hys. Naapuri kuuntelee nämä podit hyvin tarkalla korvalla.

[@ZeAngrySnowmongol]

Näitä valitettavasti jokunen jaksoihin tuli, mutta kuuluu hommaan, kun tehdään jaksoa näinkin ison ja merkittävän firman edustajan kanssa. Kuitenkin paljon pieniä OpSec juttuja, jotka vähän siinä rajamailla, niin kaikkien tahojen etu, että hieman punakynää joudutaan käyttämään 👍

[@jussikolehmainen6310]

@@ZeAngrySnowmongol Tätä itsekin arvelin syyksi👍🏼

[@mightyfinland8118]

SECOND PART OUT NOW: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYPMZKN7p6p_l9E

[@henriikkak2091]

Keskellä ei mitään: Huitsin Nevadassa

[@eerosuomaki3386]

Milloin toinen jakso!? :)

[@mightyfinland8118]

Huomenna!

[@victoreem2]

Coolio

[@Stubhose]

Gangsta paradise

[@pifase7768]

Tuntuu kuin tää podcast katkeaisi kesken :/

[@mightyfinland8118]

Hiukan se tekikin, huomenna tulee lisää!

[@brandtbollers3183]

Little Fascist Speed Bumps......

[@devobronc]

Stupid. Finland Jooning NATO: mOST STUPID MOVE.

[@mightyfinland8118]

Nope

[@duhni4551]

Yeah, because makins sure you have working defense is stupid. Said no one ever.

[@janiikavalko4046]

Even Top Gun taught as that air defense picks these aeroplanes up so they're pretty much useless as a combat. U know there's no canyons everywhere where you can fly below SAM's radar ehh...

[@herptek]

The distance from which target acquisition radars can track the aircraft is significantly reduced in stealth aircraft. It doesn't matter so much in an air superiority fight over our own territory wether the enemy AD battery knows someone is there somewhere while not being able to guide weapons at them. If we really are going for the throat, so to speak, and take on the enemy AD installations head on there are specialized long range anti-radiation weapons for that spesific task as well as other ground attack capable stand-off munitions that can fit the interior weapons bay. Not everything has to be done in the hard way when easier ways exist.

[@EggwardEgghands]

Wow you're so smart. You should work at Lockheed Martin.

[@janiikavalko4046]

@@herptek f35 isnt stealth aircraft

[@apuuvah]

Wrong. Only high flying radars (AWACS, fighter, UAV...) can see what's happening below. Radars need line of sight.

[@apuuvah]

P-troll.

[@td6460]

It's a plane that is too expensive for Finland and will cause reduction in the size of the defence forces in about 20 years time, just like the FA-18 did.

[@teemup9247]

lol, F-18 had nothing to do with reduction in the size. It was the whole Euro crisis and collapse of Nokia that caused the reforms, which in some sense were overdue. Before that the size and tactics were already somewhat old fashioned. Now, of course in the best case scenario, more mobile and better equipped and trained troops can do the same as the more unflexible larger force.

[@MRtapio5]

Another bot I see

[@MRtapio5]

Taitaa sulla unohtua pikku asioita mitä tapahtuu 90-2000 luvulla jotka saattoi vaikuttaa asioihin...

[@td6460]

@@teemup9247 Kun meikä on 20 vuoden päästä oikeassa, olette te kaikki jankkaajat jo varoitukset unohtaneet ja tilalle on kehitetty uusia tekosyitä. Sitten tilalle ostetaan jälleen uusi käyttötarkoitukseen sopimaton ja liian kallis pökäle ja homma toistuu.

[@duhni4551]

@@td6460 Katsotaan sitten 20 vuoden päästä, tosin uskon että olet aika väärässä.