F is for Family - Frank vs Big Bill

[@Tathbubs]

"minor misunderstanding" as he leaves his families life forever only to return when he is 73. mhm. even if big bill was 50 when he left, he dipped for +23 years.

[@virgiljericho664]

It’s definitely at least 15 years. kevin is about that old

[@dylanrivera2244]

One of the things I love about this show is that the conflicts are never one sided.

[@buddha3209]

It honestly understands how real life families work

[@Helltown66]

Well to be fair I think this one is a little bit more one-sided then the other situations presented in this show. If Murphy's Dad wasn't an abusive asshole none of this would have been a problem to begin with

[@rolay7730]

As someone with an abusive father, I hate this line of thinking. Even if he is "nice" now, there is no reason to let that abusive monster back into his family's lives. I am not going to sugarcoat this, my dad was actually better than this piece of shit, and I swore that the next time I see, my dad will be at his casket, and I will be telling the entire funeral home how he was a pedophilic heroin junkie. I literally can not see my dad without having a PTSD-riddled meltdown. The important thing to note is that He never beat me with large items like this man did to his kid. If he did, then there is no way I would see him and not instantly attacking. One warning I have to legally give, and then I shoot him as soon as he is close enough that "stand your ground" kicks in. There are no "two sides" to this. There is an abusive father and a son who has no obligation to take him back. Saying otherwise has convinced a lot of people to go back to abusers because everyone tells them just plain wrong things. " You have to try and make the relationship work. He is your father. You can't just abandon him, he was raped as a child, and that is why he acts like this" None of that matters. Not a single point there actually helps the abused person. It just guilt trips them to do something they will regret. My mom told me all of this, and I started seeing my dad on the weekends. I quickly learned that was a stupid idea. Then like I said, I haven't had a mental breakdown since I cut him from my life like a tumor. Some people are just not worth thinking about, and telling them that "there is always a second side" could be used with literally any terrible person. News flash, almost all mass killers were abused as children. Hitler was fucking Austrian, for god sake. He literally only went to Germany because his father beat him and said that Germany would ruin their country. That is right. Everything Hitler did was because his father's main two traits were, beat his son, and hate Germany. What are the "two sides" there?

[@whateverwhatever4476]

@@rolay7730 I agree. Personally I don’t have any stake in this since I’ve never lived through this myself but I like your viewpoint seems honestly more realistic

[@Frame_Late]

@@rolay7730 I think you might be a bit biased. Your situation sounds much worse than Frank's. People can change, even your father, and while you'll never have a good relationship, you should at least move on and let go of that pain, or you'll struggle with it for the rest of my life. I've experienced this forsthand: from my deadbeat biological father and his evil mother who dragged me and my mother through hell and back for years to my many abusive stepfathers. But I've moved on.

[@jaytheradicalhomosapien6018]

I notice that Franks Mother resembles Sue I think Frank emotionally connected with Sue due to the fact that during childhood for him his mother was his saving grace from his father who regularly berated him so I think frank naturally gravitated towards Sue for that reason.

[@jacksonfurlong3757]

Nice catch

[@Original-Yellow]

Freud "your attracted to your opposite sex parent."

[@undeadblizzard]

@@Original-Yellow Wow... I didn't have to log into Hentai Haven.

[@PhoenixEnforcer101]

People do (sometimes) gravitate towards people that remind them of a parent in one way or another

[@jacksont9455]

He also struggles with not treating Sue the way his father treated him and his mother

[@gergelygalvacsy2251]

It seems like a lot of Frank’s problems come from him being poor at communication. It’s a recurring theme in the show, and it’s also common among a lot of people, especially men - even more common in the era the show is set in.

[@bluebird1914]

True. Although, there are times such as when he hugs his dad, that show that he is on some level capable of communicating with others. That's also combined with the fact that he also shows that on some level, he is able to overcome his sexist beliefs, such as trying to accept Bill's sensitivity and being okay with his daughters unfeminine interests and male halloween costume. Something which seems to go hand in hand with his communication problems. I really hope that next season we will see an active effort on Frank's part to overcome his communication problems.

[@Iksvomid]

Ironically for Frank he only has to be frank.

[@owenlindkvist5355]

I'd disagree. Men have good communication skills in general, even superior due to how direct and efficient it can be. The problem, however, stems from lacking encouragement to do so. Be it the environment or from parental figures, there i a consistent them of absent encouragement for men to communicate. What compounds this is the perpetuation of the myth that men are simple substandard at it.

[@ZhangLee.]

how can this is a communication problem :V ? you out of your mind burh

[@mistersippi2945]

Frank is so unbelievably sympathetic. His dad started him down a path of awfulness. The draft did the rest.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I have no sympathy for Big Bill, even considering the parenting standards of the time he physically beat his son and took out his own problems on young Frank. Not to toughen him up but to vent his own bitterness. He mocked his school play and mocked him on the street in front of people. That's not tough love, that's being an abusive arsehole. I don't think it's a stretch to assume Big Bill's dad abused him as a child, with the *"Every Man in America"* comeback - you could argue it's angry drunk talk but often when you're drunk your unfiltered feelings come out. Abused children often become Abusive parents.

[@crystalgemgirl731]

I agree, there's no excuse or reason for his actions. It's abuse, point blank.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@crystalgemgirl731 Exactly, this is further reinforced when Bill goes off on Bill Jr. and all his friends recoil seeing him lose his temper. If Bill's parenting was typical for the time they'd have likely shrugged it off like an expected reaction from a grandparent.

[@crystalgemgirl731]

@@PlanetZoidstar Right.

[@dugonman8360]

I also don't think it being "the 50s" is an excuse for the severe abuse. From what I've read and learned was the severe abuse the boomers supposedly took from the greatest generation probably has been hyperbolized and exaggerated to a point of almost myth. Now this isn't to undermine child abuse but I've found that the school paddle had much of the same effect as a lot of the torture impliments of the Spanish inquisition: meaning that they were used far far far less frequently than ever used and was mostly a scare tactic. It's the fear of violence than violence itself.

[@horseyfacetheglorious]

And that’s exactly what William produced, Frank became an abusive parent too an even worse one than William

[@SteffyP623]

William is abusive, point blank. He’s the progenitor of all the issues Frank has. He puts on a perfect facade for others and the public, but his home life is under turmoil. He takes outside influences (job failing) and puts it upon his family. For as much as we can say Frank should’ve told him off, the fact that he didn’t speaks to level of abuse. Frank COULDN’T do anything let alone have a disparaging opinion different than William without being belittled, critiqued, or just plain hit. It also shows how it’s generational: William beat down Frank’s self expression and Frank learned to squash everything down (apart from anger, the only emotion William showed during childhood but that’s something to unpack). Now, Frank cannot relate to his own children emotionally. When he gets overwhelmed, he closes himself off, traits seen in all the Murphy kids.

[@matti.8465]

I dunno why he doesn't straught up call him an abuser. That's what William is.

[@bluebird1914]

Honestly, the only good thing is that Frank unlike William, does try to be better. Yeah he's not good at it, but he still makes an effort to be better than his father. He makes an effort to understand Kevin's music, and is supportive of Alice, he tries to understand Bill's sensitivity, and he tries to wrap his head around his daughter liking non-girly things. He has that self-reflection there, he just needs to seek professional help so he can truly act on it.

[@SteffyP623]

@@matti.8465 again Frank already has issues opening up. When he did, his father stifled and shamed him. I doubt an emotionally prostrated person like him could even begin to articulate everything.

[@SteffyP623]

@@bluebird1914 that’s a great point! Frank understands the patterns and will try to a different approach for his kids’ sake when necessary. But this usually happens when Frank’s ways (which usually) doesn’t work

[@fellzayel1305]

It’s probably the best example of the familial cycle of abuse I’ve seen portrayed in a show. William is abusive and instilled negative traits into Frank, which he would later instill in his own kids.

[@226amw]

Just from what I’m seeing here, Frank’s dad had a face he showed to people in public, but private, yes, having a totally different way, and sadly that’s how a lot of abuse in families is. And I say this because it happened within my own family. I had a family member who was one way around folks but in private, he was horrible and abusive. I need to give this show more attention, it looks like something up my alley because I do actually enjoy shows that touch on these subjects, abuse isn’t something that needs to be ignored no matter what or it’s time frame.

[@flyingmintbunny1286]

As a family member who was in a similar abusive relationship with my father, i find this show to be so much of a comfort ❤

[@pittland44]

Well that's why Frank gets so screwy about his father. When you run into abusive people who do this (conceal their actions from the public) it's extremely frustrating because oftentimes the people around us don't understand why you don't like said person. That's something I've learned in my life from one of my exes who didn't like a friend of mine. The reason was because she was very close with his ex wife and saw him from a completely different angle. Does that mean he's a bad person? No. But it does mean that he's not perfect and the breakdown of his marriage wasn't entirely one sided.

[@crystalgemgirl731]

I hope you're out of that horrible situation.

[@Numantino312]

what i see as a red flag with a person? everybody just LOVES them. and if you question that, you get further questions like "how can you say that about such a great man?" apart from family, only way that gets any worse is if they are a politician. they say all the right things at all the right times.... until the door to that house closes, and they don't. like David Goggins describing his own dad

[@nationalinstituteofcheese3012]

He recognizes other people look down upon his behavior but doesn’t care. No excuse

[@hariman7727]

William is an abusive father. Frank would have been justified in cutting contact permanently and keeping William away from his grandchildren. Abusers... don't always even understand that they were abusive, and sometimes reject any confrontation of that abuse. The heckling isn't good if it's one sided and the recipient doesn't accept it as friendly.

[@danielhart7435]

The recipient needs to grow a pair

[@sherbet3657]

@@danielhart7435 where you dropped as a child? The main comments point flew over your head

[@crystalgemgirl731]

Exactly. Heckling is good and fine if the person on the other side knows it's in good humor, but, Frank didn't.

[@hadeskingoftheunderworld7010]

​@danielhart7435 how about instead the heckler grows some courtesy and empathy? Maybe insulting people over something especially when they clearly are upset over it isn't a good thing to do. Try to walk in another's shoes, if you were doing a performance of something you deeply enjoy and are proud of and someone you care about starts heckling you and telling you how bad you are of it would you just shrug it off or would you feel bad? If your father or mother told you to give up on what you want to do telling you that you were no good at it and you're going to fail would you feel good about that? I doubt you would because the normal human reaction would be to feel bad about that

[@hariman7727]

@@danielhart7435 there's a difference between the brotherly teasing and roasting between men, and just being an ass. This episode is the latter.

[@infinessia4019]

Man seeing the volatile relationship between Bill and Frank after being recently berated and humiliated by my father hits...a bit close to home.

[@hariman7727]

*Looks at the bridge to his parents, or more accurately the burned ashes, the razed foundation, and the salted land so that no new bridge can be built without years of effort from the other side.* Yeah. I know that feel.

[@AnthonyMazzarella]

Yep

[@mistersippi2945]

Oof. Been there. Talk to your dad and find out about his past.

[@BBWahoo]

"Harder daddy~" 🥵

[@ozanahmetmutluay46]

Same

[@kingofrivia1248]

Idk about you but that punch was so satisfying - sad ending of course but being 70 doesnt save you from a deserved ass kicking

[@BlueGamingRage]

I thought it was a very low point for Frank. Settling a dispute through violence is only acceptable if it's a mutual decision. Frank sucker-punching his old dad was pathetic.

[@robgucci7663]

@@BlueGamingRage i mean, im not a fan of violence either, but his dad literally asked for it. i doubt frank was serious about hitting him until his dad offered his chin and continued to belittle him

[@kingofrivia1248]

@@BlueGamingRage Of course you are right but im this situation i support the violence - in a backalley would habe been better😂 but sometimes you just have to get closure and revenge and show someone how little you care- before that punch franks dad didnt even really realize how much his son hates him

[@MrMutou]

Yeah although he waited way too long to do it tbh. Me and my dad have a complicated relationship but I can identify with the dysfunction and the tension due to how we communicate, when william belittled and showed no acknowledgement for how he used to treat him that hit home. The only difference is my dad always tries to give an empty apology later but never changes the behavior.

[@whateverwhatever4476]

@@BlueGamingRage He deserved it

[@skeleboi8507]

More f is for family! This show needs to be talked about more

[@ClementineMarceline]

But it wasn't

[@RJLiams]

I massively disagree with the heckling. Sure, in certain groups it is a form of bonding. However, not everyone is going to appreciate being humiliated in front of their entire class. Not everyone is going to enjoy being made fun of during a time when their putting themselves out there. It's made even worse when it's clearly one sided. Frank isn't humiliating William in the same way. He talks back but never mocks or humiliates him. Probably because doing so will result in a beating. Heckling done exclusively at the expense of one person is not actual bonding. Heckling absolutely can be, and often is, bullying. Intent doesn't matter as to whether or not you bullied someone. William beat Frank with a cane. Does that suddenly mean it's not abuse because William didn't view it as so? What determines abuse, bullying, or outright cruelty isn't the person who's performing the act. Otherwise, every bully isn't actually a bully. I do agree that Frank needed to confront his father immediately, though I still often side with the abuse victim. An abuser has no right to your own personal feelings or even deserves an explanation to why you don't want to be around them. Honestly, all Frank had to really do was tell William to get back in the cab and leave. No explanation, no confrontation. For many abusive parents the second they lay their hands on their child they've lost any right to be given a second chance.

[@sadpotatohours4846]

THIS god the amount of "teasing" i went through where if i even thought to tease back i'd get my ass beat. if its not mutual, then its bullying. plain and simple.

[@Byebyebye-]

the thing about heckling is it has to be mutual and everyone has to be having atleast a little bit of fun. I can joke to my friends about that kind of stuff but if somebody looks uncomfortable that's the time to stop and apologize

[@baydiac]

I was so frustrated with this video. “I was trying so hard to find fodder/proof for my opinion that people are just too sensitive these days and their parents didn’t _really_ abuse them, but I couldn’t see any! It’s so frustrating that Frank really wasn’t exaggerating and I couldn’t find even a single tiny justification to point the finger at Frank equally!” FRANK WAS A CHILD. As much as I appreciate the honesty of Dorag admitting that he wanted to find evidence to support his opinion instead of forming an opinion based on evidence… Why on god’s green earth would someone so casually admit to doing it, admit to the evidence showing his assumption was way off base, and then not put two and two together that he should stop being so eager to “both sides” a parental relationship of all things! Why does Frank need to confront his father at all? Why wasn’t it WILLIAM’S responsibility to grovel to his son as soon as he got there? WILLIAM should’ve been the one to say all that stuff about acknowledging their bad relationship when they first made eye contact? Why are we supposed to pretend teasing between friends is the same as disrupting your son’s performance on stage to make fun of him, then force him to run home while continuing to make fun of him? Is that how Dorag treats his friends? Is that what he thinks is normal? In what fucking universe is it just that “William has a different idea of what being supportive looks like!”?! I’d bet my last dollar William wouldn’t find that shit very supportive! Why at the 13:10 mark of the video does Dorag start a “and THIS is the part that’s all Frank’s fault” statement? NOTHING is Frank’s fault. Frank trying to pick fights is him trying to prove to everyone that William is ‘faking’ is sweetheart grandpa demeanor and unveiling the abusive father he knows William is. The worst part is that it’s all for naught because the reveal moment is when William shouts at Bill, the exact event Frank was probably trying to avoid by exposing William early. I’ll definitely come out and say William trying to make amends is the best outcome of the story/relationship arc and I sincerely wanted William to indeed come to his senses like he did-realize that every action causes a reaction. Ridicule and attack someone their whole life and guess what? They won’t like you! It’s great for William to give Frank the opportunity to witness remorse and get an apology, and part of that means we don’t pretend like any of their ill will for each other is Frank’s responsibility in the slightest. William being in denial about how terrible a parent he was is NOT Frank’s problem. It is NOT Frank’s job to give William a wake up call about this (even though I’m sure Frank would relish such an opportunity). Dorag should NOT have acted like there was no possible way William could figure out he was a bad parent without Frank making himself vulnerable by baring his heart out to someone who treated him the way William did. It sends the message that if you have an abusive parent, because screaming at your child and beating them with a crutch is not “exaggerating” or “just the child’s imagination making their memories paint them as a victim” it is abuse and whether Frank “remembered correctly/was honest” should NEVER have been questioned, it’s now your job to go mend fences by making yourself vulnerable to your past abuser. The outcome of that in real life where there aren’t cartoon morals and relationship arcs = getting abused more. As witnessed when William got punched into the punch bowl (ha) he knew damn well what Frank thought of his upbringing and DIDN’T CARE. He KNEW Frank thought William was abusive and just called Frank sensitive for it. That got him punched, which is more than justified, but I think Dorag severely missed the message because of the massive blinders he intentionally put on to pretend the latest generations are oversensitive. Instead of, y’know, acknowledging that abusive parents do exist. Considering how many belt jokes Dorag makes I’ll make an assumption without evidence myself and say he’s heavy on the “we’re in a over-sensitive PC world where everyone exaggerates” wagon because otherwise he’d have to confront that his parents didn’t do right by him, and acknowledging that kind of reality fucking hurts. So I won’t ‘cancel’ him for it as much as he might like to accuse the comments of doing that, because I get his position 100%. He loves his parents and they probably really REALLY love him. Loving flawed people who hurt you isn’t bad, it just blinds you. A lot.

[@Hanger37]

​@@baydiacTHIS

[@shroomgoblin2639]

My dad passed away when I was 16 n my best friend had just got a girlfriend. I told him he meant a lot to me n asked him to come to funeral and if we could hang out a bit more well he ended up saying he was too busy so I cut him out of my life and fast forward a couple years I’m 19 now. He texted me saying he wanted to hang out so I gave him dates I was free n each time the day would come up he’d ghost me. I called him and explained how you should make time for your friends and follow through on your word but he got defensive and blamed the fall of our friendship on me bc I wouldn’t remind him. SMH some people are to self centered and believe the world revolves around them. Edit: spelling errors

[@justinsmith4493]

He was never really your friend.

[@joshuagraham2843]

that reminds me of drake and josh drake never got an invitation from josh they been friends for a long time but the’re friendship is broken because of josh revealed he’s a douche

[@kendallcuddles]

I'm sorry for your loss.

[@jameyb1984]

Man what a shit bag. You are better off without him in your life.

[@headlesshunter8435]

This comment is a bit of a cope seethe but it has some based feels 😔😔

[@averymartin1327]

It has always bothered me how my bastard father can makes himself look like a saint in front of strangers even though I know how horrible he can be behind closed doors.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I think it's lack of self awareness and likely growing up with toxic role models that encourage that behaviour.

[@Tran-ll2it]

I’ve found that it’s often that they find it beneficial to be kind to outsiders so that things can go their way and they can use their trust to their advantage, while it’s not beneficial to be kind or understanding towards those of your home because you already have control of them and have them where you want them to be

[@angelizdaboss]

This season was my favorite season of F is for family. Only because johnathan banks is big bill, and all i can see and hear is mike ehrmantraut from breaking bad

[@gimpscam9976]

Omg now that you say it it’s so familiar now how did I never hear it before!??!?

[@BlueGamingRage]

The advice at 14:19 is gold. My ex stored up every grievance she had over our relationship and only mentioned them when she broke up with me. I would have worked on about 70% of those things had I known they were an issue for her. But since she never told me until it was too late for her, I never got the opportunity.

[@Shadow-zf5uc]

Ok but did you work on any of those things after the break up?

[@bluebird1914]

Looking at Frank's relationship with his father, it makes me wonder if Frank's lack of communication could be blamed on that as well. Judging by his distaste of Frank's sensitivity, and the time period, Frank's dad most likely was a big supporter or the whole 'men aren't allowed to be sensitive, men don't talk about their problems.' belief. Combined with William's violent temper as well, maybe Frank was too scared to confront his father. Sure it has been years since they saw eachother, but that fear could still be there, and we know firsthand that Frank has major problems with communication.

[@hadeskingoftheunderworld7010]

Frank is almost certainly afraid of his father, he was physically abused at least once and most likely much more. That sort of abuse causes distinct issues especially around the abuser

[@GenGamesUniverse]

IF it's to be taken literally, it would have been somewhere around 1989/1990, because Bill was trying to sell stuff that would have sold in the polio pandemic like iron lungs and crutches. He took it out on Frank because he felt he was owed something and that the polio pandemic/epidemic should have stayed on.

[@Boggywompuhs]

William’s the one at fault here! Causing Frank to be just like him! Abusing the kids & spouses , shocking friends, the misfortunes of the world

[@NikoNikolaia]

I think one of the major things about the heckling that made it less supporting and more picking are the previous interactions Frank had with his dad. Frank made a mistake, got slapped and yelled at. Frank had his dreams shot, and continues to get beaten. It’s not exactly about being sensitive but how people are being treated in small situations. Those can escalate if that continues to happen all the time. Like William’s frustration place a big impact on how Frank should feel. If every moment of messing up is continuous yelling and beating, one is going to associate heckling as a type of bullying. Sensitivity is fragile and needs to be handle with love and care. You don’t help create resistance through William’s actions, you break it: leaving holes to penetrate one’s resistance, triggering them in the process.

[@supimpanda2312]

As someone who went through parental abuse almost exactly like this I have to say that the lasting trauma might be why frank tries to get William to ‘come clean’ on a lot of occasions. Frank more likely feels like William is making fun of him by acting like nothing happened

[@spencersss1251]

How is public heckling seen as him showing support ? I really don’t see how someone could possibly see that ?

[@ShadyDoorags]

In both situations, William saw Frank embarrassing himself so he tried to lighten the mood by making fun of him. His motivation was to make the situation better for Frank, not worse.

[@stevenlillard4243]

@@ShadyDoorags I like you man, I've been watching for years, but it feels like you have a survivor bias on this one.. "My parents hit me and I turned out fine so hitting kids is good" Or like you say in this very video "in my family tearing each other down is how we say I love you" which is upsetting.. If your theory was right and he was doing it to "help" frank... why make him walk home and yell frank is a girl?...

[@ShadyDoorags]

William's heckling and his bullying were two separate events. He heckled Frank because he thought Frank was embarrassing himself by dressing like a carrot. He then continued to do it because Frank forgot his lines. In both cases, his intention was to lighten the mood and cover for Frank looking bad. This was still bad, mind you, because William did not pay attention to how Frank, his child, was reacting to the heckling, but it still isn't a form of bullying. On the drive after, that's when William starts bullying Frank. He starts berating Frank because he was embarrassed by Frank's performance (Also probably because he lost an evening's profit just to see Frank's play). His intention on the ride home was make Frank feel ostracized strictly due to his own frustration. That is indeed bullying. On a side note, many friends, families and environments bond by heckling. I don't know why my family getting along with each other would upset you.

[@CrystalRose1111]

@@ShadyDoorags Hard disagree. He wasn’t trying to make things better for frank or lighten the mood for Frank’s benefit. Very weird way to interpret that scene. If anything, William was making the whole thing about himself. He had no issue with humiliating frank in public. He took joy in it. That’s all he was there to do

[@CrystalRose1111]

@@ShadyDoorags I don’t want to make assumptions about your family, but what happened in the show is probably different from what your family does.

[@manuelguerrero2204]

My father and i got into an argument today. He always calls me an idiot, r word, dumbass for the smallest things just like frank. These episodes made me cry because of how much i understood his anger towards his father but deep down he still wants that little "atta boy". My little brother whos a boxer and skater is the focus of my dad and his wife im just usually to the side not trying to get in the way. I always did my own things like wrestling and baseball (he never came to any even when i asked) but he'd come to my brothers boxing events or his police program he was in. We argued because i was finally tired of letting him walk all over me and intimidate me both physically and mentally. Yes im taller than my dad but hes 230 lbs and lifts three times my body weight so obviously i am afraid. Im mad at him for always making me feel small and useless even when i wanna be helpful im forced to the side but Im happy i told him off for once and made him understand i don't want to speak or hear from him. Not forever obviously but i dont wanna hear him now.

[@unknownvagrant6851]

Manuel, I know it's been two years, but I hope you patched things up with your dad, or reached an amicable middle point. If you love your dad at all, then remember that he will not always be around.

[@scarletivy2271]

I hope you're in a better situation now

[@feeble_goblin3764]

This might not mean much shadydoorags but this video was the tipping point for me to talk with my brother, he was a pretty bad bully when we where younger so much so that i struggle to say i love you to him and when i would go to sleep at night i would get so mad at him for no reason and I finally confronted him about it and he said that the days he was the worst has been keeping him up at night too so much so that he needed to take meds, so I forgave him for all the pain he caused me and i said i love you to him for the first time in mabye a decade. the final point of your video really gave me the notion to go on with talking to him, thank you

[@abigails4088]

Closure to that sort of stuff really helps... My older brother was abusive to me early on (physical, mildly violent... pushing me, once tied me to a post in our room so I couldn't follow him around, a few other things I'd rather not get into deeply... BUT NOTHING ~HMM HMMM~ outside of that we were tight, enough to work together to get mom to spoil us XD) Because other things I experienced in my own life overshadowed what he did to me, I was able to make jokes to him about it... he legit doesn't even remember the worse things he did like tying me up. Thing is, come find out he was actually being HMM HMM ABUSED himself at that time and the violence may have been a reaction to his own internal anguish.

[@idleoz21]

I had this version of that conversation with my brother a couple years back. I was a horrible older brother and I was responsible for loads of abuse, physical and emotional. I managed to pull him aside at a family event and in private laid it out that I was filled with an incredible amount of guilt and that not a day goes by that I don't regret everything I'd put him through. I didn't expect him to forgive me, and part of me doesn't want him to. However, if he'd be interested in repairing our relationship, I would be as well. And if he wanted to maintain the distance that we've built up over the years, I respect and completely understand his decision to do so.

[@feeble_goblin3764]

@@idleoz21 bro are you my brother? Commenting on this rn? Joking of course

[@idleoz21]

@@feeble_goblin3764 haha, no. Just a man trying to make amends, if possible, to someone who he was an absolute monster to and who DEFINITELY didn't deserve it.

[@BobPantsSpongeSquare97]

I overall like the show but my only gripe is that it really seems like Frank goes each season being angry at something and then learns his lesson and mellows out but in the next season its like he forgot everything and goes back to acting the same way again

[@ShadyDoorags]

Agreed. 100%. Frank is one of the most infuriating protagonists ever. His biggest flaw is acting on impulse and he regresses literally every season, usually at least twice a season.

[@joshuaharris3039]

I think it comes down to the fact that he learns the lessons in a grand gesture type situation rather than from getting actual help for his issues in a consistent manner. Like Susan said, one hug doesn’t magically fix 40 years of hard feelings. I’d even relate it to Bojack; he learns lessons on how what he’s doing is wrong but keeps making mistake after mistake until he starts rehab, attending AA meetings and getting some therapy.

[@BobPantsSpongeSquare97]

@@joshuaharris3039 yeah but with Bojack he's addicted to drugs and alcohol which contributes to his frequent relapses whereas Frank just can't resonate with what happens. Like for example after he almost gets shot at the airport he acknowledges that he had been pushing his family away but in the next season he seems to have forgotten that experience

[@joshuaharris3039]

@@BobPantsSpongeSquare97 good point; I still view it as Frank needing actual counseling of some kind in order for him to be able to take any lessons he learns to heart and then live by them. Who knows? They might address it in the next season since there was that mention of the VA place offering that kind of help

[@gadielgonzalez2755]

I mean i know I'm probably gonna get alot of flack for this, but shit like that happens in real life. I've gone through anger management with my own psychologist and i can say from experience yeah I've made alot of improvements as she noted, but there are alot of times where I've relapsed and had to work things out differently. Working out your emotions, especially one's like anger is not a quick fix, it takes time and effort, and despite your best efforts sometimes you do forget what you've learned.

[@AzureTheAvian]

I think the biggest reason Frank is terrible at communication is because of the way he was raised. His father, despite how much Frank hated him, instilled the “manly” stereotypes of hiding your feelings and ignoring your problems. My own dad is basically a more tame version of William, without the straight up physical abuse. But he did take out his anger on my constantly, and he’s that stereotypical manly man. I had to learn to communicate my feelings from my friends, those who became important parts of my life later on. And my boyfriend, who’s the biggest help in my entire life. I’m still terrible at sharing my feelings, and not letting them build up. Was Frank in the wrong to hide his feelings? Of course. But he’s only doing so because his upbringing never taught him how to do so.

[@bubblegum1366]

Honestly in every situation with parent/child strife the fault is ALWAYS on the parent. They are the adult in the situation, it's their responsibility to do better. If your adult child doesn't speak to you, it's 100% your fault and you were a shitty parent. I also don't really agree with the mentality of "it was okay at the time" because it flatly isn't true. Something being socially acceptable has never been the same as it being okay. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

[@okaysoanyways2645]

Imagine a dad beating his son with a crutch and still saying the child had to tell the father what was wrong? Like are you kidding me. His father was a definition of a narcissist which is why he never felt like what he was doing was wrong. narcissist have this selfish habit where they feel like they're always in the right. they always had "different intentions".what narcissist fail to realize is that it still doesn't change how their actions affected the people around them

[@unknownsword9042]

Um no, there are plenty of situations where a child may not talk to their parent. If a parent doesn't co-sign a loan for their kid that doesn't change the past and make them a shitty parent.

[@namesdontmattergaming2756]

Okay but if a toxic parent isnt willing to change and you have to rely on them for financial support, what then?

[@johntitor7989]

Focus on school and leave?

[@Fatone1927]

@@johntitor7989 tell that when you need clothes or school supplies or even just from them to wright a signature for something you need.

[@Thor-Orion]

Make sure you’re in the will and arrange an “accident.”

[@TheMandaloreFett]

@@Thor-Orion I like you😂

[@Thor-Orion]

@@TheMandaloreFett thanks? I thought it was good advice…

[@katelynpringle5506]

6:38 I really like what you say here because there are a LOT of people who think society can be too sensitive these days (myself included), but unlike some people who never take another side into account, you openly acknowledge that sometimes people have a good reason to feel sore. I wish more people had that capacity for understanding.

[@matti.8465]

Heckling Frank IS bullying, there's no way around it. Yes, in some contexts it can be a way of bonding or showing support, but when your child is on a school play and you berate him in front of EVERYONE that's straight up bullying. And I wouldn't call this comparable to the Hollyhock thing, at all. I still think it wasn't her responsability to talk to Bojack, and if Frank had chosen to cut Bill out of his life too, that would have been okay.

[@crystalgemgirl731]

Exactly, thank you.

[@SpellboundWolf]

Dad is abusive to my lil sister & I. We're currently in our 30s. I stopped speaking to him in late January 2023. After the divorce when she & I were 5 & 3 years old, it was as if he turned into a monster. He lost his temper at the smallest things. He screamed at my little sister when she was 3 for spilling just the tiniest amount of oatmeal from her spoon on the table & forced her to wipe it up. He did it to me too just as aggressively. Because of this, I instinctively apologize & panic whenever I spill something around other people. I'm 35 now. That shit stays with you. I hope with how aware the parents of today are becoming, we will realize being hard on children is abuse. It is abuse. It is! There is zero excuse for that shit. You are supposed to protect your children. They depend on you. They should not have to fear you. Parents will abuse the shit out of you, then wonder why you never call, visit or even write to them once you're grown & able to get away.

[@capamerica012]

Future Trunks: All he does is scream at you. Bulma: Yeah he does.

[@vidlink]

More F is for Family please. It is such a great series. I would also recommend covering Daria, it was in many respects, a show ahead of its time.

[@lokidude100]

Seconded!

[@pinkpugginz]

3rd for daria

[@BlueGamingRage]

If Shady decides to a video, I'd suggest something about when Daria is wrong. Infallibility is a trap that many social critics fall into, and Daria would be a much worse show if she was always right when she criticized something.

[@FarelForever]

@@BlueGamingRage I second TomMe's statement. I appreciate shows that don't try to make their characters perfect pillars of virtue.

[@Born_Banjaxed]

My partner and I said the same thing when we watched the whole series in 3 days last summer.

[@LadyBern]

Sometimes it's hard to confront the person to tell them what they are doing wrong. Ever get a "talk to me so I'll know what I did wrong." but then they turn it around to make you out to be the bad person for feeling as you do, "oh well sor-ry for doing something you didn't like. I was trying to do you a favor out of the goodness of my heart. Talking only works when the other party wants to listen and not just hear what they want to hear.

[@HK47_115]

I used to get that a lot. Then I just went cold and Silent. They took that more personally in to heart. Overtime they started to get the hints, but still had to just listen the first place it wouldn't have had to go down that route. One shouldn't have to get hints when it's literally being said in your face. But if you choose not to listen in the first place, that person ain't going to speak to you at all anymore. Simple as that. It's not worth wasting a breath only ending up with irritation

[@bluebird1914]

I suppose that point could also be argued on why Frank didn't initially confront William. I mean, the dude showed multiple times that he didn't care how Frank felt, so why would Frank think that his dad would listen to him?

[@lonebattledroid4474]

Frank might have communication issues because of William. I'm guessing from the fact that William was a horrible parent he couldn't talk to his Dad about anything. Not saying that's an excuse but it might be an explanation.

[@thewanderingronin5433]

All I got was I'm sorry but there's nothing I can do to change the past, let it go. They wonder why I keep to myself and dont wanna spend time with the family, but as per their own words I was always the sensitive one

[@justinsmith4493]

Nothing wrong with cutting toxicity out of your life.

[@demetryc.9734]

@@justinsmith4493 exactly

[@hariman7727]

Let the bridge burn then. I had to in the interest of maintaining my sanity. So I damn well get that feel.

[@dakotasan8719]

Blood might be thicker than water but that only makes it easier to drown in.

[@hariman7727]

@@dakotasan8719 the blood of the covenant is thicker than the waters of the womb. Everybody takes blood is thicker than water the wrong way because of a mistranslation.

[@peckingorder6064]

William made his son walk down the street in costume while following him in his car. William is EVERYTHING at fault in Frank’s life. I’ve told my mother she’s messed up plenty of times, but she does the same thing over and over again. Sometimes, family will NEVER think they’re in the wrong. Even if you paint the picture in black and white.

[@sakuranight24able]

After the bo jack horseman video , I actually had a conversation with my dad . Thanks for the push and insight shady doorags.

[@svlagonda7417]

The grandad is an abusive bully who takes it out on his son because he can't too young to defend himself. Disgusting vile man.

[@ryandujumbomammutuseafrica9674]

IMO Frank is much worse than his dad

[@Iuxinterior]

@ryandujumbomammutuseafrica9674 literally how

[@TheFalseEsquire]

There is a nice balance of heckle-love between me and my family to this day. We poke fun at each other when we can, but pull ourselves together to be serious when needed. This in my opinion is how a family should function. But from the glimpses of Frank and Big Bill’s past. Frank viewed it as antagonist while Bill viewed it as him trying to show his own version of love. Both are an upbringing of their circumstances. Just like everyone. Making our own experience unique to only us

[@rebeccasnow4420]

Okay yeah, I’m going to have to disagree with a lot here. He was a child when that abuse occurred. Sure, some people heckle to show support, but if he was showing support, then why would he punish the son after? Or better yet, why to a child? Punishment for not responding to “support” correctly? It is never a victim’s responsibility to correct an abuser’s behavior. Maybe if they were little hiccups, but they weren’t, they were deliberate acts of abuse. Denying the son’s reality and calling him “too sensitive” is called gaslighting and an abuser avoiding guilt. It is not on a child or other victims to correct an abuser’s behavior, especially if they are a grown man. Maybe he could communicate that as an adult, but you need to look at thing’s from the victim’s perspective. If an abuser cannot see that their behavior is wrong, that is on them, and a reflection of themselves, not an excuse. Overall, saying victims need to correct abuser’s behavior is extremely damaging and places blame onto victims. Not to mention trauma, which is not something you just switch off. It just overall contradicts so many points made.

[@ShadyDoorags]

First of all, the video says that literally everything William does when Frank is a child is on him, even the heckling. Second, William punished Frank because he was embarrassed as well as because William had to lose an evening's profit to see his son embarrass himself. (Again, that was wrong for William to do an it's on him). Third, the video does not say it is up to victims to correct their abuser's behavior. The video states that if someone is doing something you don't like, victim or not, and you want to keep them in your life, you need to make sure they understand what they did and how it affected you. Otherwise, you cannot blame them later when they do it again, or when they don't repent for doing it before, because they may have never known it was wrong in the first place.

[@rebeccasnow4420]

@@ShadyDoorags But he made it pretty clear to his dad that it wasn’t okay, and the father the entire time denied his reality. And it was clear Frank didn’t want his dad back into his life until he believed that his father changed by saying he was wrong, and when his dad repeated his behavior, Frank called him out, something that really isn’t easy for victims to do in the first place. And the father’s response was straight up gaslighting and insulting his son. The son did not expect the father to repeat that behavior because he is his FATHER. No one expects a parent to mistreat them, it’s human nature. I know, because I speak from experience. And yeah, I did eventually confront them as well, and they responded the exact way Frank’s dad did, no matter how many chances they were given. The solution, stop giving them chances, unless they PROVE they have changed. And saying a victim “doesn’t get to complain” when an abuser is literally abusing is EXACTLY one of the reasons many are afraid to get help for abuse, that judgmental, victim blaming mindset. Saying the victim just, didn’t communicate enough doesn’t resolve the overall issue. I’m not going to say Frank making public scenes were okay though, that’s just carrying the cycle of abuse and freaking out his own kids. But at the end of the day, it took the father truly confronting the consequences of his actions, which unfortunately, no one can make an abuser do. Again, if the dad was just kind of toxic, I’d agree with you completely. But that kind of behavior puts people in prison, so look at situations objectively, because to you it may just seem like fiction, but for many of us, it’s very close to reality.

[@kingofrivia1248]

@@ShadyDoorags Yeahhhh but i have to agree with the first comment - this video is the first of yours that i do disagree with a lot - you seem to ignore the fact william paraded his son around and called him a girl at a time when frank was developing - i understand your points that in williams mind the hecklibg wad support, but at that drunken fight frank was standing before the person taht abused him for 21 years and he was ready to move on and that person that „feck you you were just too sensitive“ and that is 100% the actions and the exact words of an high level abuser - i also think we get too sensitive but imagine being in frank shoes i would have kicked him in the balls and never talked to him again - there is no way a human being can forgive childhood abuse if the abuser does not see his errors - im sorry but thats just insane i cant stress enough how much of a legitimate victim frank is the one person he wanted to be praised by didnt say a single good word about him and never supported him - and i believe frank has 0% fault for that fight or their bad relationship - ZERO - because abuse can NEVER be overcome even 50 years later you still have nightmares

[@kingofrivia1248]

@@rebeccasnow4420 100% thanks my man i had problems explaining it in my comment but i think you touched on smth important - in this scene franks dad was even taunting frank tbh deliberately using the phrase he at that point knows frank feats

[@wendysfreshneverfrozen1853]

@@ShadyDoorags your insistence on the current generations oversensitivity throughout the video kind of clouds any real criticism you have.

[@IndianaIrregular]

I'm literally having lunch with my dad tomorrow after a year of not seeing him. You're doing the Lords work Shady

[@Spicystachegamer]

I feel the "attaboy indicates that william(big bill)" had troubles with his own father would have been nice to see it as a flashback as it would show that frank's anger issues are an issue that spans generations.

[@shaunhamelin9896]

Shady doorags is the cartoon yoda. I’ve gotten so much wisdom out of these videos

[@TheForhekset]

I don't think it's your responsibility to tell someone why you're angry with them. Especially since William beat the shit out of Frank, it's not difficult to see why Frank would be angry.

[@DBArtsCreators]

No one thinks its their responsibility to explain to someone why their angry with another. Problem is, the person your angry with is almost guaranteed to not understand what made you angry nor why (otherwise they wouldn't have done the thing that made you angry, or at least would have tried not to). So yes, it is the person's responsibility to explain why they're angry, even with obvious things (and many things aren't so obvious; fewer still are obvious to everyone). What isn't a person's responsibility is to demand an apology. An apology demanded is an apology given in bad faith. You have to explain to a person why you're angry, but its up to them to swallow their pride and legitimately apologize for what they did, and to try and make amends.

[@zilesis1]

it's your responsibility to decide if you want them in your life or not. if you decide the relationship is worth saving then the onus is on you to do your part, i.e. communicate what the problems are and what can be done to fix them. if you'd rather just keep the person at arms length that's your right, but this may lead to a situation where the other person is bewildered at your coldness. at which point you end up with the same choice: just keep distancing yourself until the other person takes the hint and leaves your life, or communicate your feelings and try to mend the relationship.

[@TheForhekset]

@@DBArtsCreators You first start off saying it's not somebody's responsibility to explain why their angry, and then you say it is. I'm not sure which position your taking? Also I don't agree with the premise that people don't know why they made the other person angry sometimes they don't because it's by accident. But some people are vindictive and do things on purpose to make you angry. If somebody lights your bed on fire, while your sleeping, that is intended to cause harm.

[@HK47_115]

@@TheForhekset well then the real question is with you. Why are you keeping this person around in the first place if you even know there's a chance they're going to burn you alive in your bed. At that point if they really are vindictive, which doesn't even make any sense to bring. Because that's not the point of the situation in this circumstance, if they really wore vindictive then that is on you to get them away from you. It is your responsibility for your own safety. If somebody truly is obviously you didn't give a full case scenario but my point being, if you're going to bring up situations like this, and you're seriously asking the questions will then worse the responsibility, the responsibility is on you for not taking care of yourself. I seen human being with common sense and somebody who genuinely didn't know what they did wrong will change if you tell them something if you give them the proper information they're missing. If your question is what what if I know they're very much vindictive and whose responsibility is it, yours dude, yours! If somebody's been deeply they're not going to care about the responsibility on somebody else's well-being, Cleary. So if you're aware or your spider senses are tingling and you have suspicion that somebody is not all they're cracked up to be an RV more big detected and or dangerous and they say they are, then it's on you, it is your responsibility and a matter of your safety that you get away from this person or at the very least you don't stay in the same houses then where you know they may or may not burn you alive.

[@HK47_115]

@@TheForhekset and before you try to say it with what if I don't know. Good question, what if you didn't know? How do you know somebody is being vindictive or not? If you truly don't know? And if you don't bother to say anything to double-check or at least has the person show them how they really feel with their actions, who's truly in the wrong? Who's the one I'll give him a chance? Have you don't know give yourself the extra information or provide it for them if it helps your case scenario. If it's truly a situation that they're just predictive, then stop keeping them around you. If they don't respect your wishes and it's getting to the point of full-blown harassment, you contact the authorities or worst case scenario, you get a restraining order

[@Slasher9485]

Frank's greatest flaw is that he is stubborn. And that causes him to make new mistakes, like not properly communicating with people because "We keep it inside until we die.". And that's why, as frustrating as it is, Frank doesn't exactly go to zero when a new season starts. It's more like he goes to one or two. He can't change his anger or issues with communication because the show keeps giving him reasons to justify his anger or go back on his words. Like when he finally opened up and talked with Sue in season 2, it was met with negativity. What would've been a positive change to his character was met negatively and thus Frank discarded what would've been an important lesson.

[@Kaboomboo]

The ending is spot on. If you are annoyed with someone, you CAN tell them that. Otherwise they'll never know. If they continue to be toxic, THEN you cut them out and you've nothing else to say other than you did your best.

[@enginerd108]

Calling someone who is affected by abuse sensitive will never not make me upset. Frank was abused, and his reaction to that does not make him sensitive, it makes him hurt. The negative connotation of the word sensitive makes you sound like you are blaming childhood frank for being hurt, and adult frank for still being hurt.

[@skyrogue1977]

I was literally thinking about you making a video about their dynamic.

[@varietyhub2948]

Almost as crazy as shadey and Jhonny 2 cellos having the same video idea for a futurama review

[@wjbushjr]

IMMA BE REAL HERE BRO. You kinda missed with this one, the point of F is for Family is that you're supposed to look at the flaws of 1970s parenting and there were an actual a lot of flaws with the said issue of how parenting was. Parenting for Frank was literally a big huge fuckfest of yelling and physically abusing children. And then you seen how he got from his own old man, and you could see the problems with it. Frank doesn't really care that much about whatever Will has to really say in front of him. He always thinks of the horrible times with his father, showing that his abusive father has really fucked him in the head. By notating of the said points of Will's causes of outbursts of anger, that ain't it chief. It ain't it. William is at fault for his own actions, yes. It's showing that he has a reason but it don't mean shit honestly because Will doesn't try to change. He didn't try to change his ways with his wife, he didn't try to change his environment and understand what exactly what was going on and apologizing for his behavior for his own kid. Also, I think we all need to notate that Bill and Frank's situations were adults and giving this kind of advice to confront your abuser is great but it also needs to notate that children can't go confront their abuser. Sexual assault victims can barely confront their abusers.

[@NFSMAN50]

You were spot on with this. I love F is For Family, great show, sadly season 5 is the last though. The dynamic between Big Bill and Frank is your typical generational conflict. Big Bill was born in 1901, He grew up during a time where conditions were harsh, had lived through world war 1, the Spanish flu, roaring 20s, great depression, WW2, a time where people didn't live Frank was born in 1935, and was a child during WW2, grew up in a peaceful decade the late 40s to early 50s, and didn't have to go through the troubles his dad went through. Frank went to fight in Korea during the war, and developed PTSD from it, but he was able to live a good life for a bit, met Sue, had a son, buy a house and have a good paying job in the 60s. Frank is even hard on his two sons Kevin and Bill, who were born in the late 50s, early 60s, and is continuing the cycle again, when Bill and Kevin, are growing up in the 60s, and 70s, a completely different time than what Frank has grown up in. Frank even called Bill a Cat( G rated version of the P-word). In Franks eyes, Kevin and BIll have it waayy easier than He and his dad did, because they don't have to serve in the war, growing up during prosperous times, have more freedoms and rights to do things. It usually takes one to break the cycle of generational Trauma, hopefully Bill and Kevin can break the cycle of bad parenting.

[@cjcolzie826]

Yeah William lived thru those times but I don’t think he actually endured the pain from those in other words he didn’t fight either war and those other things didn’t effect him I think his father Js was probably abusive to him as he was to frank but it was probably considered normal for those times cuz In season 4 finale he finally admits he fucked frank up and says “I raised him the best I knew for the times” which likely other than the pogo stick beating he gave frank he probably thought what he was doing was making frank a man without babying that’s why he had Nora I think idk if any of what I said made sense I hope somebody reads this and tell me if it does😭

[@ryanlozano9086]

@@cjcolzie826well considering what William friend thought when he almost hit Bill jr he probably had severe abuse from his dad to where he normalized it that he thought it’s ok only if you don’t do it in public

[@GranTorieno]

I need more F is for Family content! Thank you for providing the goods, Shady

[@dreye3215]

Explaining your grievances to your parents isn't easy. In general, you don't really wanna think about it if you were raised badly, much less articulate it. On top of that, the way your parents mistreat you will usually be something that is, on the surface, fine, and only becomes problematic when you look at the details. In Frank's case, if he were to summarise his mistreatment, he'd probably just say "you punished me", which doesn't sound like bad parenting by itself. You even admitted that you went into this thinking that William was in the right, before analysing the exact details of the situation. For Frank to express his grievances, he'd need to have a long talk with William, recounting exact details of events from his childhood and why William was out of line when he punished him, none of which is easy to do.

[@derrickt7258]

I love that the grandfather was voiced by Johnathan Banks. In case you don’t know who that is, Mike Ehrmantraut from Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul.

[@mikenewman6678]

The older generations are extremely hard headed, they think that they are always right even if clearly they are wrong. This is exactly big bill, he thinks that he did nothing wrong to frank and that’s where the problems are, this is why him and frank are always at each other’s throats. All because big bill won’t admit that he was abusive towards frank

[@skeevantas]

"It wouldn't justify his actions but it would make us more empathetic towards him" no it wouldn't lol

[@crystalgemgirl731]

I don't.

[@joshpaul1569]

Most underrated KZbinr of all time. You’re gonna blow up

[@bellarose1562]

Alright, look, the hug was great and all, but this man verbally and physically abused his kids. I wouldn't blame anyone for abandoning a family member because of that. To me it's an unforgivable thing. I don't know how people keep in contact with people like that even if they've changed.

[@11epicguy22]

Alright listen... as a child of an abusive father, you really lost some respect for me for how Forgiving you are of William, and how unforgiving of Frank you are. Their relationship as adults is FUCKED, no matter what, and it shouldn't be on the victim to say why they hate their abuser.

[@okaysoanyways2645]

This youtuber is the type to say "but theyre still your family" after you told them how you didnt have a good childhood. Or the "when i was a kid my parents slapped me" as a way to minimize the victims experience. This is why victims dont talk about their abuse bc of people like this youtuber who always have to gaslight the victim in order to keep this "blood is thicker than water" narrative. Like saying frank might of "exaggerated" his childhood abuse? That's how i knew this guy was just plain ignorant

[@ZemanTheMighty]

@@okaysoanyways2645 he actually said that he was going to try say that until he realized it was plainly wrong.

[@gato8008]

As someone who's been psychologically abused by her father who wasn't mostly present in her life, I agree with you here.

[@nakedslayer6685]

@@okaysoanyways2645 as the child of an abusive father who rehabilitated himself and created a better relationship with his family, not everyone has the same experiences. I hate people on the internet that talk like entitled teenagers.

[@nakedslayer6685]

@@okaysoanyways2645 *you* and *people like you* just stop talking about life and experience like it’s a stagnant, constant factor. It’s indirectly ruining lives.

[@thomasalvarez4117]

Is this dude a Psychologist? He good at human emotions and nature.

[@dollydagger4306]

I know, man. He should be a psychologist...he always hits the nail on the head.

[@recklessrex]

Idk man, he doesn't seem to have a very good understanding of how abuse effects a person psychologically, like, of COURSE Frank's gonna have trouble standing up to his abuser, most abuse victims do, there are major psychological hurdles they have to overcome in order to do so. Also judging from his other videos, which are great don't get me wrong, but with each video I watch I'm getting more and more of a "blame the victim" sort of vibe from him. Not saying that's actually what he's doing, just the vibe I get from him

[@derekbaker9360]

@@recklessrex Everything he talks about is superficial and obvious. And then claims he wants nuance, but here he has it and just reduces it to HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO HIS DAD. Which is so stupid considering the situation and the mindset that would be present.

[@kelvinkelly6404]

ha, he would get his license revoked . The last thing someone who has gone through trauma needs is a person who gaslights them and belittles their emotions.

[@AlexiaHoardwing]

This hits too close to home especially what I'm going through with how my dad has been acting and my mom's passing.

[@Διόνυσος-ξ5ξ]

Hope it gets better for you

[@AlexiaHoardwing]

@@Διόνυσος-ξ5ξ Thank you, and I wish you a lovely day.

[@AlexiaHoardwing]

@@eyebrows3966 Thank you, and to you, hope and safety is wished. Stay strong.

[@dragondice9201]

Imagine if Frank put William through that fucking wall🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@todangtall]

Shady: "I wanted to do a video on how society is getting oversensitive." Phillip Bonfiglio: *Sings Hot crossed buns*

[@Maverickslayer744]

As someone who had a strained relationship with his father for years until we had a heart-to-heart, this episode especially hit me hard.

[@aaronrivera6706]

Awwww yeah Shady I don't waste a second clicking it

[@KarlPHorse]

Remember that Frank achieved everything he had without needing Bill. Honestly, despite his low income and status, Frank is an impressive man. He’s a veteran of the Korean War, a father and husband, and a his hard work has given his children a chance at a future life better than his own. He’s a good man, and became a good man without his father in the picture. Frank might have ended up just like his dad had Bill not left. He certainly came close when it came to his relationship with his own children, but he managed to acknowledge his faults and repair their relationships before it was too late. Frank is everything that Bill isn’t. He’s strong, courageous, hard working, and able to mend relationships when they are strained. He doesn’t need Bill. He managed to become a proper person all on his own, without the influence of his father.

[@whiteknights8812]

This is good representation of whats nowdays parenting vs the old days.. For the old timer..you can be as shit as you can but once you being nice or show a nice gesture. You expected to be forgiven without apologizing. For nowdays generations. You can be as nice as you can..but as long you didnt apologize for your mistakes..we will never square

[@JenkinsVideos]

I’m glad people are talking about this show now

[@animeania1]

Man, this was a real flop, I can acknowledge the fact that you said William to a degree is at fault but you also have to keep in mind that William was the adult in this situation. He should know right from wrong more than Frank who was the child. If you've been belittled all your life and the only emotion you've been shown is anger. It only makes sense the way Frank reacted. And then to follow up by saying a victim should address their abuser? Wheeeew 😬 is that the most tone deaf statement I've ever heard. Clearly you don't know the nuances of abusive relationships especially when it's a parent-child dynamic.

[@ShadyDoorags]

I didn't say William to a degree was at fault. I literally said everything William did to Frank when he was a child is on him and no one else. I then said, if you want to keep someone in your life, it is up to you to address why you have an issue with them, else you shouldn't be surprised later when they have no idea wat you're talking about. When Frank is an adult, he has the tools he needs to communicate his problem. He either should've done that, or sent William packing. He chose to keep William in his life, but not address anything properly.

[@bomba3626]

@@ShadyDoorags (almost an year late but this thing is important for me) yeah man but those tools are kinda compromised. Ofc one should be mature about it and Frank could for sure handle the whole ordeal better, but he didn't because he was emotionally scarred and that affected him in a way he was no longer lucid about it. A reason for keeping william is a difficult thing. He is his father and cutting out on him is not simple as to anyone else, and the anger kinda demanded him to stay for a anger-venting loop that is very common in this situations. The problem with toxic people is that in a way or another they remain a part of your life and cutting out is a point of no return. a point of which you can be really afraid to trespass for fear of being left alone. it happened to me when i cut out with a friend of mine a now i'm more alone then ever because i was the only one to do this and my other friends didn't. But beside that, all the mistakes that frank did are a byproduct of what william did in the past and pretending lucidity and clear thinking by him it's a mistake. in this sense i think the guy here did right to call you out, not in a sense of "look at this fool saying foolish thing" but more in "dude, you are not wholly understanding the dynamic here" sort of way. hope it was clear enough. peace man.

[@nicoleb695]

@@bomba3626 exactly. It's really tone deaf to actual survivors of abuse

[@darthjoe91]

It's not tone deaf, it literally therapy. Any good therapist will tell a victim that actually wants help moving past their abuse that they will eventually have to confront their abuser. It provides closure for the victim.

[@RH_-_]

@@ShadyDoorags I just found your channel today and was loving it until this one, too much sympathy for an abusive father. It seemed like you were okay with bullying if its for the right "reasons".,

[@MsAlyssaB1]

You know what I want them to address, how's Franks sister? The toxic masculinity aspect of the story gets told through Frank but lets get some representation for women who were raised by men like that. Big Bill feels so guilty for fucking up Frank but he has 2 kids, fathers just focus on their sons more. From what we saw she was very meek and brow beaten by Big Bill, did she marry someone like him? Does she hate men? There's a story there. If Frank hates his dad so much why is Little Bill, Bill at all? You think he'd hate the reminder. Did the show address that? People are oversensitive now as a means to compensate for the behaviour and excuses people made for fathers and husbands in the past. Everyone knows at least one father or grandfather who you know should have been divorced or arrested but they got a free pass because they were "the man of the house" so now people are trying to fix that and hold men accountable for their actions which is a good thing, the problem is some people see that as modern men should be held responsible for the behaviour of men in the past. Which doesn't help anyone.

[@violet1719]

I really hope in the next season we meet his sister.

[@okaysoanyways2645]

I really hate that "people are sensitive" bs its the same when people use "blood is thicker than water" in order to gaslight you into letting toxic family members get a free pass.

[@danielhart7435]

Feminized America

[@danielhart7435]

@@okaysoanyways2645 I hate the overuse of gaslight

[@CrystalRose1111]

@@danielhart7435 you might hate it but gaslighting is probably one of the most popular manipulative behaviors out there. People do it all the time

[@silverghost3063]

Honesly Shady wanting to side with William in this fued, but beinf unable to at every turn, says more about him than it does Frank or William. The whole season is dedicated towards sending the message that William was a terrible father, and that there was zero justification for any of his behavior. Not even the heckling.

[@megamania9393]

I full heartedly agree with this ending message. My dad isnt a great dad, hell he's called me the next Unabomber because I dont like socializing, I've confronted him and my mom has too about how he's hurting us or making us uncomfortable. But all we get in response is his defensive hissy fits. Instead of dumping my family baggage into this comment, all I can say is that when some one, even if family, isnt willing to change for the better of a relationship, then they arent worth it. My mom refuses to listen to this advice and I still have to deal with my dad for my moms sake, I hope one day he actually does change, if not I hope mom leaves him.

[@glowbies9416]

6:50 bro thought heckling your son in public and making him walk home while constantly berating him could be justified 😂

[@sapphirewingthefurrycritic985]

Honestly, despite his dad being horrible Frank still became a somewhat decent dad.

[@Toolumens]

Big Bill as a grandfather reminds me of my own Grandma, she was a pretty lovely and sweet person throughout my childhood who wanted to spend time with myself and my siblings, but the older I got the more of her 'less desirable qualities' I saw of her. I learnt that once when she was babysitting us as kids for a few days, she went and remodeled my Mum's garden and though she was in the right to do so. She berated my Grandpa for almost every little thing, she made backhanded comments to my younger brother when he was 8 about my Dad's weight, and "implied" to my older brother "concern" about him having kids since he has a neurological disorder. When she passed away the person most sad was our Grandpa, I think my cousins even avoided seeing her before she died. I started to learn as well that she had always been judgmental to my dad and uncle throughout their lives, and was the kind of person to also think she was always in the right or that she knew better. There are some people in the world who make good grandparents but awful parents, and it puts in perspective how much easier the latter is than the former. She also had a Margaret Thatcher haircut which, yeah, says enough.

[@FoxesInBoots]

maybe they didn't go for the "times were different" route because, well, it kinda doesn't exist. sure, if you look at the past as humans as one thing, sure, whatever. but it isn't, it's all individuals acting for the same reasons they'd act now. the only difference is time and how it's affected them. "times were different back then" is just the past tense version of "everyone's doing it, so why shouldn't I?"

[@ShadyDoorags]

No, that's not the same rhetoric. Humanity's understanding of people evolves with time, as do our tools. Humans act on necessity first before acting on comfort. Our understanding of what's required of necessity and comfort changes with time and culture. People will act very differently in a time where only a man can be drafted into the army, society is at the brink of war and the only source of news is channel 10 at 6 PM, than they would in a time where anyone can be drafted, there's no sign of war and there's a smartphone in everyone's hand with instant access to the news. In the past, harsher parenting was necessary to prepare kids for the world they would go into because that's what it took to better survive in said world. As time goes on, society tends to becomes a much less hostile environment, meaning the need for "tough love" is lowered immensely.

[@photostudio5861]

I don't think Frank has an excuse for his behavior. My father was somewhat like Big Bill, not as bad of course but bad enough. My father was born in the 1920s, WWII vet and had Irish immigrant parents who thought that if you didn't beat your kids, God would make you do more time in purgatory. So, my father thought it was normal to be rough on your kids. When my kids were young, I used to take my father as a reverse example of how to parent, which is what Frank should have done especially considering how aware he is of his own father's parenting flaws.

[@piperian3962]

I’m going to have my first child and I need to remember not to take my failures out on my children.

[@VillainIsLemony]

I was curious how you'd interpret the play argument. I've heard different ideas that William is feigning ignorance of his past actions, but I think it's more aligned with the interpretation you gave: That William never saw his actions as unsupportive.

[@flyingpastakitty]

This situation is realistic, considering what Frank's father did. I've noticed a lot of the time that when someone becomes a grandparent, they don't treat the grandchild the same way they treated their child. This can cause conflict to a degree. There is this one tiktok audio going around where the person says: "Stop acting nice and show them how crazy you are." It seems like this is a common experience unfortunately.

[@MrBoss-re6lp]

Well, in all honesty, can you really blame Frank for how he turned out? His father was supposed to be his same-sex parent and he had a rocky relationship with his dad. In Frank’s own point of view, he had to figure out how to be a man on his own, because his dad couldn’t relate to him. Unfortunately, I kind of go through the same things in my life, my dad and I don’t really connect emotionally. Also, it’s society’s fault for not helping men express their own emotions and having favoritism for women to have their opinions heard. When men talk about their feelings, they’re seen as less “manly”. I face a lot of those problems daily with people.

[@livingexcuse3767]

Was waiting a long time for somebody to cover this, couldn't understand the radio silence.

[@tyrant-den884]

Shady: "People are too sensitive now, not that I have any examples to back this up."

[@SlightlyShoobie]

Venting your frustration on anyone undeserved is one of the worst things you can do

[@dannieb.7108]

I can relate to Frank: Being pissed off at a parent that treats you like garbage but you have to act like the better person even when your parent did you a great amount of dirt/pain but you still love them. But once they are gone or unfortunately leave you again, well you can't help but feel like shit for the times you were in the wrong/being too hateful. Life can have a strange way of teaching you lessons that you clearly need to learn and hope to do better next time with whoever hurt you/wrong you next.

[@abigails4088]

"We can hash this out NOW...or you can get back in that taxi..." Honestly... you'd think Big Bill would respect Frank more for that than bottling it up and socking him into a punch bowl in public---

[@db83e]

Did he support frank? Cause def made him walk home. Sounds more like big Bill wanted to be the life of the show

[@GenGamesUniverse]

That was the main turning point when Bill came "back into Frank's life", notice that he "paid off" his grandchildren straight off, then started to make Frank the big baddie in the family and tried to turn his family against him, especially when Frank punched him. His wife could have easily stepped in even though she was pregnant telling them both to take it outside.

[@LOSTLEAD8R]

This would be different if it wasn't Frank's father, but because it is, the blame is solely on William. Parents will always get the raw end of the deal when it comes to their kids and arguements, but the simple fact is that William raised Frank to hold a lot of shit in. Due to this, Frank isn't able to communicate well, and never really make up with his father. In literally any other circumstance, Frank would be in the wrong, but the simple point is that Frank didn't know any better because of his father.

[@kyledonnelly8069]

I have an abusive Family. My Grandfather beat my mother and her siblings. He bullied me for years. What I found out was that some people get in a rythem, what they chose to do once always worked. He bullied and was left alone because of it. But at his core he did a lot of good, misguided good. I loved this piece about how Big Bill perceives what he does as supportive and Frank misunderstands Bill's intentions. I like that Frank has every right to think his father was an asshole. But understanding why someone was an asshole helps you rise above it. My Grandfather was a good man who did bad things, I forgave him. I understand why he did it, why he felt justified. I can make peace knowing why, closure with him, it's too far gone but I can keep the good memories and explain the bad. If that makes sense. great video

[@Wackstunn]

Something to be considered when it comes to Big Bill vs Frank is that as you get older, synapses in your brain that are not regularly used will wither away, so the fact that Bill was able to make multiple changes in his behavior is much more impressive.

[@enginerd108]

7:27 It's really not that simple to stand up to your abuser. In a perfect world that could have happened, but it's just not that easy. I know you hate the victim complex, but while frank is also a horrible person as seen throughout the show, he is a victim of his father. He uses it to justify bad behavior, which is fucked, but he is still affected by what happened to him as a child.

[@GenGamesUniverse]

Thing is, NOTICE when Bill enters the picture and he ends up getting punched, EVERYONE turns on Frank for punching a "80 year old man" considering that Bill SAID "I'll give you one free shot!" to Frank and Sue was behind Frank. Sue, yes she was pregnant, HOWEVER, she should have had a backbone and told both of them to quit it in front of their kids or take it outside and slug it out until one comes back in.

[@enginerd108]

9:16 What about that is supportive? He is trying to appeal to the audience over his own son. He is raising his social status at the expense of his son. Of course Frank has a reaction to this, because this is NOT support. It's shown very clearly when they are in private that he was not doing this to support frank, but to ridicule him. If Bill was trying to support frank, why would he have made frank walk all the way home while being berrated?

[@Cam-qx6yy]

Dude, I need to say this: there's a Mexican youtuber called Sebastian Derain and his work reminds me a lot of yours but with more psychological analysis. you guys make me want to be a psychiatrist or learn more about psychology

[@jonathanwilkinson4299]

Link to his channel I can't find it.

[@Cam-qx6yy]

@@jonathanwilkinson4299 kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5qulHp9hMqMeqM here's an example

[@VlRGlL]

You can’t blame kids for being sensitive. They’re CHILDREN and every child has different thresholds of stress and no one deserved to have what Bill did to Frank

[@crystalgemgirl731]

I think it's like the blind men and the elephant from the story for the blind men finding an elephant for the first time. "Each was partly in the right, but all were in the wrong"

[@Bombsquadcomedyshow]

What he did to his son is unforgivable. No way he would have accepted anyone treating him like that. He only did it because his son wasn't in a position to do anything about it. Now that he's a man and can give him consequences for his actions, he has regrets and tries to change.

[@FGJasper]

You forget that even if he confronted him directly about everything from start to finish franks father would still have denied it, so no. Communication does not always work as some people just refuse to believe they were doing anything wrong. His father not just heckled him in. front of the entire town at the time but forced him to walk home in costume at night while being screamed at and heckled more by his father on the way then beats him physically for no reason and belittling his dreams so after decades of no talking his father just decides to show up and act like nothing happened. After all the years of mental and emotional trauma it becomes hard to put aside anger

[@jacktowers7533]

Gotta admit my Irish blood appreciates the use of a the folk fiddle in the background for a story about the Murphy men Sláinte Shady

[@20502chris]

After you finished your sentence at 15:08 all I could hear was "Do you, think I'm a good person? Deep down?"

[@abigails4088]

"only when you reveal how you feel CAN THEY SEE..." damnit, I was really hoping to hear only when you reveal how you feel *CAN YOU HEAL*