F1 In Schools Aerodynamics

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

Thanks a lot for making a video about my cars! The video was amazing! I really appreciate it. Just one question: Did you measure the cars at 60mph?

[@PremierAerodynamics]

It was 70 mph.

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

@@PremierAerodynamics okay so I calculated the drag coefficient and with the air density 1.2 kg/m3 I got about 0.25. however that is crazy good (like on world finals level...). And because I cannot believe that I wanted to ask: At what Air density did you measure the car?

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

actually the sticker is for the logo of "f1inschools" and showing the starting number on the competition

[@PremierAerodynamics]

Oh...

[@exiledcapybara1690]

This is actually really high quality

[@GeekforSpeed]

Making a fin (vertical stabilizer) like in an airplane would create additional drag if the car turns sideways, thus might help in keeping them straight.

[@PremierAerodynamics]

It would be interesting to see the difference between fin and no fin in a race to see if the added drag and weight outweighs the thrust benefit.

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

@@PremierAerodynamics I am looking forward to make some tests with our car in february. I will have a look at that

[@Bigma_Industries]

17:15 I can only assume they did not specify minimum width as there is already a requirement for the car to contain the box at the last slide. So that fixes the minimum width to 55mm ++

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

exactly!

[@alaybey9771]

Now its time to test our formula student car in cfd

[@alexalexander652]

maybe wheel wells to minimize low pressure in the wheel well part

[@戴紀煬]

What's the pressure inside the CO2 can? The exit velocity might reach sonic speed if the pressure is greater than 1.85 atm.

[@PremierAerodynamics]

IDK, the current outlet speed was 80 meters per second. I don't think the real life version would reach sonic speeds because there doesn't seem to be any shock waves in any videos.

[@戴紀煬]

@@PremierAerodynamics Maybe it's because it's too small and the camera isn't close enough? There are videos showing jets from spray duster using Schlieren imaging and the shock diamonds are clearly visible from those videos. I assume it's the same case for CO2 cartridges.

[@oliver-leung]

Excellent analysis. What were the real world results? I wonder if the placement (weight distribution) of the CO2 canister impact straight line vectoring (or did it induce fishtailing/speed wobbles)?

[@PremierAerodynamics]

Thanks! I don't know. I think they said in the comments that they will do some testing early next year.

[@rocketsurgeon11]

Unless their rules state that they have to have certain design elements, the fastest versions of these cars I've seen have this formula: make it as short as possible, make it as light as possible, and obviously make it go straight. Literally they end up being 4 wheels connected by sticks and a CO2 cartridge.

[@autonoob]

I’m surprised by how complex the designs are. Moving in a straight line like that seems like it would produce a very ”simple” aerodynamic environment and by extension a simpler/cleaner design. How much do they focus on rolling friction and do they lube those string guides?

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

As I designed the cars in the video, I can tell there is a lot to consider while designing. At first you want to minimize the frontal surface area and want to lead the air as effectively as possible. To achieve that however you have to consider the rulebook of the competition which makes the rather simple job waaay more difficult there is basically no rolling friction as we use ceramic bearings to minimize it. lubing the guides could honestly be a good idea! Thanks for that!

[@Lucas-cg5kq]

What is the minimul downforce needed for the wheels not to slip? If it is less than the weight of the car it could be an idea to produce some upforce to lower the rolling resistance?

[@Max-gi1xj]

The wheels don’t need to grip at all, from what I’m understanding. They’re basically rockets on wheels, so the wheels aren’t powered.

[@Lucas-cg5kq]

@Max-gi1xj oh yeah ofcourse, that would mean that any downforce would be a negative since it'll increase rolling resistance no? So the ideal would be 9.81m/s2 of lift and no downforce? As this would mean the car has 0 normal force and thus 0 rolling resistance?

[@NoanatorTV]

@@Lucas-cg5kq this would be one way to optimize the acceleration. you have to keep in mind that producing lift (same as producing downforce) comes with a drag penalty. So you have to hit the sweet spot of minimizing the sum of: rolling resistance + air resitance The additional component is the direction of thrust, you have to keep the car a straight as possible for maximum acceleration along the track. You may be able to optimize this with aero, but again this then comes with a drag penalty.

[@Tomatenking123]

Did you simulate the Cfd with rotating wheels?

[@PremierAerodynamics]

MRFs

[@kanedewilde]

Since it’s 3d printed, could you fully enclose the halo and driver without touching the restricted geometry?

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

unfortunatly the halo has to be visible from side-, top- and frontview

[@TinyBearTim]

@@xXGHXSTXx-h6uso you can with transparent plastic

[@colinbowman8816]

the CO2 canister being mounted up higher than the CG will create a nose down pitching moment.... But no downforce. It won't make downforce unless the canister is angled downwards, with the exhaust shooting back and upwards. You know that though. If it is pointing upwards, it must be a very small angle; It's not obvious.

[@NoanatorTV]

the nose pitching moment divided by the length of the wheelbase is the resulting downforce on the front axle. a more intuitive example could be a plane with one working prop on its left wing. This plane will create a yaw moment to the right and the resulting sideforce will change the yaw angle of the plane.

[@rolandotillit2867]

Are you not allowed to shroud the CO2 nozzle in a diffuser? Not for downforce but for more nozzle performance.

[@xXGHXSTXx-h6u]

no, the nozzle has to stay untouched

[@rolandotillit2867]

@xXGHXSTXx-h6u weak.

[@PremierAerodynamics]

Lol. Making the nozzle more efficient is a great idea! If you get it close to perfectly expanded, the thrust would give you way more acceleration than pretty much any other improvement (maybe all of them put together).

[@ZedNinetySix_]

I dont care about "digital lighting to communicate with you" The fact this car has steer-by-wire is the very thing taking away so much communication between car, road, and driver.

[@PremierAerodynamics]

Don't go there.