The state of ROH in 2024 | Wrestling Observer Live

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The state of ROH in 2024 | Wrestling Observer Live

Рет қаралды 11,167

Күн бұрын

Bryan Alvarez and Mike Sempervive talk about recent AEW booking, which leads to a discussion regarding Cary Silkin's comments about ROH.
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Пікірлер: 151

@VicariousThePot Ай бұрын

Roh is now shotgun Saturday night without the "A show" recaps

@IixAGxiI Ай бұрын

OG Shotgun was great because of the different setups theyd have every week,like in an underground station,etc

@michaelsinger4638 Ай бұрын

Athena and Billie Starkz (and Lexy Nair) are doing GREAT work. They deserve to be on TV FAR more.

@ezza2x899 Ай бұрын

Billie Starkz has grown so much over the last couple of years, she is a future star for sure

@dashingdreww1185 Ай бұрын

AEW has a bad habit starting a story on Wednesday than sneakin in a segment that follows it up on collision or rampage then skips like two weeks , then expect us to remember every little detail loll

@championxx1621 Ай бұрын

Mark Briscoe is the Jey Uso of AEW. Fans absolutely adore him no matter what. Hope Mark can get his big break.

@SuperAnimeking100 Ай бұрын

The fact this is being said about a world champion says a lot

@blablablaa14 Ай бұрын

Why is Athena the only one that's never been allowed on AEW TV? Of all people why is she exclusive to ROH when literally everyone else can cross over. Jericho can cross over but Athena isn't allowed? What?

@eldrow Ай бұрын

Her nor Starks. It's an even worse tragedy with Athena because she's the ROH women's champion and has appeared on AEW TV, maybe once in 2 years. It's pathetic.

@zamplify Ай бұрын

Unrelatable

@ianstephenson9721 Ай бұрын

I don't think she wants to. The show is built around her, she's said she has more creative freedom in ROH than she would have in AEW, and it's kind of an "if you want to see me, you have to watch ROH" thing.

@blablablaa14 Ай бұрын

@@ianstephenson9721 I don't care what she wants. Their division needs her, even if its just in the mid card. There is not ROH exclusive talent, that's stupid. Like 10k people watch ROH every week, she doesn't get to choose that

@eldrow Ай бұрын

@ianstephenson9721 I doubt that very seriously. Why would any active wrestler want fewer people watching them? Fewer eyes mean less money and less notoriety overall. That doesn't add up.

@WolfEatZombies Ай бұрын

Well that's easy to answer: It involves Rush (a guy people don't really care about unfortunately) Joining the Don Callis Family (a pointless faction people don't care about) It's happening on Rampage (a show that even the diehards don't care about compared to the other 2)

@Saddler1944 Ай бұрын

This is what I find funny about Wrestling Fans is they over blow how popular things really are. Even at the very top, if I ask 100 people who Cody Rhodes is It would not surprise me if all 100 said "who?" Wrestling is small and the small stuff in wrestling is even smaller. Yet some people want to act like the Don Callius family is out there every night doing big interviews on what ever the equivalent is the Arsino Hall show is now a days.

@juniorkhomari1850 Ай бұрын

@@Saddler1944completely missed the point

@Hotdiggity11 Ай бұрын

@@Saddler1944You completely missed the point lol

@Callus_ Ай бұрын

Does Tony book ROH too? If so he should stop at let someone else do it. It'll give it a different feel and give someone experience of booking to maybe take over from him in AEW down the line

@royalty843 Ай бұрын

He wants it all

@prj7894 Ай бұрын

he is too much of a mark to give away his toys

@FrozenSurf Ай бұрын

Tony has screwed it royally. It’s a shadow of what it once was

@christophermccray6528 Ай бұрын

My thoughts exactly

@97ECW Ай бұрын

ROH PPVs now have broke it's Sinclair attendance records for multiple cities

@montana01 Ай бұрын

@@97ECWmultiple cities?? That’s so misleading. They were averaging over 1K fans multiple times a month in their peak, with 2-5K for their big shows. Not to mention MSG. Now, they literally run like 3 PPVs on their own, and a couple tv tapings. They don’t sell a fraction of a tickets they previously sold.

@97ECW Ай бұрын

@@montana01 Multiple ROH ppvs have done record attendance over the Sinclair era for example Supercard of Honor in Philadelphia just this year broke ROHs previous attendance record in Philly.Ian talked about it on the show that's not misleading at all that's a fact.

@Ermac_______________________69 Ай бұрын

It was a shadow before Tony bought it to be fair. The owners fleeced Tony with that deal. Roh is dead on arrival.

@Voysh2Voysh69 Ай бұрын

Collision needs to be the ROH-centric show within the AEW lineup. It should be a “collision” of the AEW & ROH rosters. All the ROH champions need to be the champions of Collision and separated from AEW champions.

@blablablaa14 Ай бұрын

I don't think TK can book two shows, cause Collision is now just like Dark with maybe one important match. I stopped watching it when I realized its all predictable matches every week and I haven't missed anything AEW wise so far. Cause its all on Dynamite anyway

@Voysh2Voysh69 Ай бұрын

@@blablablaa14 I do think TK has spread himself too thin. He needs a booking committee or at least someone else with a lot of creative power that could strictly book Collision. That way it truly does feel like a separate show & brand, like back when Paul Heyman controlled a lot of the creative on SmackDown in the early 2000’s.

@blablablaa14 Ай бұрын

@@Voysh2Voysh69 Yeah I don't think this is happening. Vince was always spread thin and still took all the commend. TK is more like Vince than anyone else in wrestling

@IixAGxiI Ай бұрын

@@Voysh2Voysh69He needs to get rid of ROH and Rampage and release the people hes never used!

@97ECW Ай бұрын

@@IixAGxiI Get rid of rampage which he's being paid for and"get rid" of ROH that he owns?That doesn't make any sense.

@heysaekari Ай бұрын

it's basically why i can't get onboard the AEW wrestling even if i wanted to. there's no re-caps, no summaries, no quick intros of who is fighting and why they hate each other... i end up asking people in a discord about it and losing interest. whereas in WWE there are montages and remix compilation videos with epic music and voice-overs from the commentators and all i have to do is put the show on and talk smack with the boys... lol

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

Exactly. One of AEW’s main problems is it is not accessible to people like wwe is. They’ve even said on this show how AEW feels like a club that you are not a member of.

@terriblecoughing4767 Ай бұрын

@@zachbrown1988 It makes sense given that Tony was a DVDVR poster back in the day.

@tysontaggart7246 Ай бұрын

There is absoutely recaps for the main event fueds, they even have a youtube series that makes compilations of matchs and promos for stories, they put out one summerizing Hangman and Bryan's previous fued before the finals of the owen hart tornament. But most of the Mid card and bottom card stuff only gets a quick recapped by the announcers when it comes up.

@TMPS93 Ай бұрын

ROH started out like a developmental peogram but at this point it has become AEW's version of Main Event. Tony will sign people for a cheap pop, then when "creative has nothing for you" he sends them to ROH to fade into obscurity until they get called up from out of the blue for a one off or let their contract expire.

@Deans-jm3uf Ай бұрын

My guess is so terminally online as a wrestling fan he assumes most of the fans are the same and catch everything online or on social media.

@nickt.7305 Ай бұрын

ROH is being poorly managed. It doesn’t have a purpose, as mentioned. I’d like to see Rampage become the ROH show. However, WBD would have to be okay with it.

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

And they won’t be because the ROH brand is basically nothing. Not that AEW as a brand has a ton of clout but they got more than ring of fucking honor lol

@DavidDexterGaming Ай бұрын

I used to love ROH for many years, when guys like Samoa Joe, Low Ki, Briscoes, Austin Aries, etc worked there but it did get bad before Tony bought it and I stopped watching but I tried to watch it again when Tony took over and it was worse than ever before. It's basically AEW Dark Elevation. Really bad. I am a fan of Rush and Athena, they are awesome but many of the talent and the way the shows are is too bad to watch.

@youngzeus87 Ай бұрын

PWG won the war smh

@stephen301281 Ай бұрын

I was certain he was going to build it like NXT, have young guys and new guys there, get the best coaches working on it and booking it, different style, bring people to AEW when they’re ready. Instead it’s just a meh B promotion.

@Blitzkrieg50 Ай бұрын

The current state of ROH is abysmal. People want to say “Tony is giving more jobs.” Why could he not do that within AEW TV? They only book three shows a year that theoretically matter. Champions go missing for weeks on a paywalled show, even while injured where Yuta got seven months added to his title reign from being injured. Starks has not defended the title once since winning over three months ago and it took almost three months for Mark Briscoe to defend a title while he chased an AEW midcard title. This is after Kyle Fletcher held the TV title and went 1-8 on AEW TV for months on dynamite. The show is littered with pointless squashes that don’t help anyone in front of small crowds. It is the most boring version of ROH that there has ever been among it’s 22 years.

@montana01 Ай бұрын

Interesting timing… seems like Tony was waiting for the WB negotiations to decide on a future for ROH. I assume Tony knows if WB does or doesn’t want it. Now he’ll need to make the decision if WB doesn’t want it.

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

Didn’t CW hit him up over it awhile back? Now they’re getting NXT lol

@AstonishinglyVon Ай бұрын

Tony Khan is the worst booker in mainstream wrestling today

@michaelhubbard4989 Ай бұрын

At least he's given us another option in mainstream wrestling.

@Realcool1525 Ай бұрын

I remember when this was the same criticism with WWE six years ago. Glad to see they are calling out AEW for it as well.

@xShoTime83x Ай бұрын

Which has more: People attending the Rampage/Collision tapings or people who listen to B&V reviewing Rampage/Collision.

@JohnRigby5011 Ай бұрын

The state of Ring of Honor should for sure scare Tony Khan for his life

@VirgilZandig Ай бұрын

ROH should not exist in 2024. Time to let it go.

@JetForceFive Ай бұрын

More people will watch RAW in a few hours than all three AEW shows and the TNA show combined this week. ROH is the least of AEW's problems at the moment. How I am able to care more about Dominik & Otis than performers in AEW that have headlined Wrestlemanias or their stable of 20-30 five-star "GOATS" is truly telling. Years ago I would get frustrated because I couldn't figure out Tony's plan. I don't get frustrated anymore because he clearly doesn't have one.

@danieljackson2496 Ай бұрын

Tony should either turn ROH into a NXT or just get rid of it because it really serves no purpose it doesn't even serve nostalgia because except for the name it doesn't represent anything from the OG ROH. Its basically a WWECW right now.

@kingslayer2999 Ай бұрын

So I'm assuming Miro is no longer with AEW because he has completely vanished without a trace? What a absolute waste of talent by the Clueless Money Mark 😒

@joeyskywalker1322 Ай бұрын

He’s still in AEW TK just doesn’t have plans for him

@97ECW Ай бұрын

Miro is injured and recovering from an elbow and shoulder operation so yes,He's still with AEW.

@dsadams17 Ай бұрын

Waste of talent? I don't blame Tony for not wanting to book a guy who doesn't want to play ball.

@thecolonel3995 Ай бұрын

Miro was 7-0 last year I think 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Not bad work I would love to make mid to upper six figures for 7 days of work in a year

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

@@dsadams17he’s still paying him though lol. If I didn’t “play ball” at my job they would fire me. Imagine telling your boss you’re not gonna do your job and he’s just like “ok”

@nateputerbaugh5709 Ай бұрын

The state of ROH: It is completely and utterly irrelevant and Athena has completely wasted her prime being in it

@mastertimb Ай бұрын

They should consider turning Rampage into the ROH show and booking it properly. Right now, Rampage feels like a throw-away show. This potentially fixes two problems at once.

@KairosObj Ай бұрын

I don't even think TK knows what ROH is. It could be soo much better tho.

@JanSmets-bg9ie Ай бұрын

It's around so Tony can keep everyone employed that he doesn't really want to use or need because he's running a charity and not a business. And Bryan and Dave know it too, they just don't want to say it.

@AdrianBeegoatz Ай бұрын

Come on, man… The real ROH of hard-hitting , athletic , sports-based wrestling, established by guys like Samoa Joe, Danielson, McGuiness, Strong, Aries, Tyler Black, the American Wolves, etc. died a looong time ago. Pretty much around the time they let the Bullet Club take over the show. Now under Tony Khan, it’s just AEW: Dark with a differs name. 🤷🏻‍♂️ PS: I’d take Mark Briscoe, Rush, and Takeshita on Dynamite over the Bucks and Jungle Jerk ANY DAY

@soulow_one Ай бұрын

TK should have used ROH for a modern nWo angle using Punk, Bryan and Joe. The brand feels worthless right now.

@backlogcabin8003 Ай бұрын

ROH feels like content and doesn't come across as substantial or carry any weight to AEW. There needs to be a feeling like the brands can and should compete with one another

@Disimperial Ай бұрын

Retire ROH for crying out loud. The business is saturated and it might mean something to relaunch it five years from now.

@TheRV1HD Ай бұрын

Meanwhile Mark Briscoe is also having an ROH Championship defense against Roderick Strong...why? Because Mark is friends and in a trios team with Kyle O Reilly...and the Undisputed Kingdom still want Kyle O Reilly despite him saying no months ago and them taking him out...

@WWE2KUNIVERSEELITE Ай бұрын

ROH is Sunday night heat without the Dynamite recaps. CLEARLY TK has not paid attention to ROH cause if it was people would care more about it.

@CoffeeStain-Music Ай бұрын

It would be better off today if it was just "a tab on an app" somewhere.

@97ECW Ай бұрын

ROH still does great ppvs and has some good matches on the weekly tv so no it wouldn't.

@CoffeeStain-Music Ай бұрын

@@97ECW and if a tree falls in the woods it does still indeed make a big sound. So...

@dsadams17 Ай бұрын

Ask the people currently employed in ROH if they would feel the same.

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

Well Rush also tweeted out support for the dude who beat the shit out of Stephanie Vaquer so, actually he’s not that great

@keni95851 Ай бұрын

A waste of millions of dollars dishonoring a legacy of a great company so some money mark can play EWR irl

@actionfigurearchive9002 Ай бұрын

All excellent criticism. Legit but positive and forth thinking. But ring of honor has to sell subscriptions and that method wasn’t covered. How do they sell with free video packages?

@TheMegaDudeBroski Ай бұрын

ROH always should have been the AEW developmental brand. From day one I was always concerned with the idea TK had of it being a sister promotion that runs “independently” because he is someone who is so diehard about continuity and wrestling history beyond just AEW that it was bound to either become the “we have nothing for you” show or the “Collision light” show. And now it’s kinda just both until they decide they need to make it relevant for a minor storyline on Dynamite. Get it a totally separate roster, put your younger guys and the vets in their twilight down there for good to develop the young guys, if you’re really feeling nuts go get some of the young Indy talent you maybe want to have around for the future, and DO NOT MENTION IT ON AEW TV UNLESS IT IS SOMEONE GETTING CALLED UP FROM ROH. It gets rid of the problem of AEW having way too bloated of a roster, it gives ROH its own identity back, and it gives you a whole new pool of talent you can keep an eye on without worrying that they could have a couple good matches on Rampage and then get signed to NXT before you even get a chance to really run with them. At this point TK has run himself way too thin as a booker, and while I find him to be mostly good at it his flaws really start to come out when he’s trying to run two promotions and 300 wrestlers all at once and refuses to just let it be in the hands of someone he trusts. Heck, if Danielson is gonna call it quits as a full time guy and he’s still interested in the booking side of things, TK seems to trust him enough let Danielson have a crack at booking ROH while he’s not wrestling for AEW. Or if he has interest see if Scott D’Amore would want the job, I mean just look at the turn around of TNA if you want a resume. There are options there but as it stands ROH just feels like AEW Dark with a couple PPVs a year.

@flyguy7825 Ай бұрын

ROH is in the same position they were went Tony Khan bought it they are a small little brand it’s being run like a small little brand

@thecolonel3995 Ай бұрын

Rush sells less than Moxley lol. Maybe not but not far off

@betterthanumjf Ай бұрын

I love aew but they don't how to push talent and create stars

@acelarson911 Ай бұрын

I started watching ROH in 2010, Richards VS Black at Death Before Dishonor...talk about the good ol' days

@realnorthpaw Ай бұрын

Imagine talking about states of promotions when you never watch it. Classic Bryan. Doesnt watch it or just parts and has a WHOLE opinion.

@NLaBar Ай бұрын

News to me about Rush joining Callis. If you MUST use Rush, this is obv a good idea … but Tony needs to accept that most fans don’t watch every second of AEW’s programming or follow every KZbin video/social post. Maybe cut out a few mins from one of the unnecessarily long midcard matches & do some short recaps with the extra time

@jasonjimerson7046 Ай бұрын

A zombie of a promotion... An undead promotion. Cary Silken despises how Tony Khan has mismanaged it since the day he bought it!

@mattypaul87 Ай бұрын

Tony has 3 televised AEW shows. You're telling me he can't use Rampage or Collision to showcase ROH better?

@dallas317 Ай бұрын

Tony khan doesn't push fans favorite wrestlers? Vkm 2.0

@zanbenurthadar Ай бұрын

skip to 4:02 for the actual content in the title as for ROH, it's not a self contained universe as 6 of ROH's champions are on AEW more than ROH, they only show up for token "proving ground" squashes.

@NLaBar Ай бұрын

ROH is just the replacement for Dark/Elevation with an occasional PPV that almost nobody buys because the entire promotion is treated as a second class afterthought

@rogelioromero802 Ай бұрын

Hire scott d’amore and let him run ROH separately.

@theexpertbc1175 Ай бұрын

At this point ROH = WWE Speed/NXT Level Up

@crumblepi Ай бұрын

Alvarez wants AEW to be dumbed down so bad. he obviously never read comic books. AEW story telling is exactly like comic book story arcs

@RaymondRich Ай бұрын

Wrestling fans are ridiculous. I don't need endless recaps of every little development on every show. The internet exists. Stop dumbing everything down. I can't imagine anyone confused by wrestling being able to follow Marvel Comics in the 1970s and 80s. Entertainment for children. It's not Proust.

@darrylgillikin30 Ай бұрын

Modern ROH is nothing more than Dark and Elevation, only with title belts. That never change hands on the weekly show.

@eldrow Ай бұрын

I think Tony only brought ROH to please CM Punk. Now that he's gone, he barely cares.

@jeffong503 Ай бұрын

I hope rampage turns to roh

@dsadams17 Ай бұрын

It's giving people jobs and letting them work each week, so it's doing fine by me.

@connerhuston2613 Ай бұрын

I said the very beginning when TK brought ROH that i thought it would have been better if Someone else brought it instead. Not TK Not WWE but Someone else (s) with good knowledge of ROH and strong financial backings.

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

You’re describing a person that does not exist lol

@connerhuston2613 Ай бұрын

@zachbrown1988 , we'll obviously, but it would have been nice if they did.

@michael-orian5773 Ай бұрын

Alverez is mad that AEW doesnt cater to him when he misses a show 😂

@ykdavid Ай бұрын

It can't survive on it's own. It really just needs to go away or have one off ppv's for indy guys.

@ryanlargent9320 Ай бұрын

Re: RUSH I dunno, I feel like if this was say House of the Dragon and Jac switched sides from Black to Green, and you skipped that episode and hopped in the next week, the expectation is for you to catch up. I don’t think you can expect every single episode of a show to constantly being giving you exposition and informative video packages for everything that’s happened before.

@zachbrown1988 Ай бұрын

I mean, wwe does lmfao

@ShootItALBY Ай бұрын

ROH is single-A now

@joshmoellman1967 Ай бұрын

Dead…update complete

@michaelthomas6088 Ай бұрын

Roh been dead y’all cmon now.

@therev_sungyungmoon24 Ай бұрын

Thanks for your 2 cents dumpster fire🔥

@michaelthomas6088 Ай бұрын

@@therev_sungyungmoon24 truth hurts apparently. Pretend to be offended elsewhere.

@therev_sungyungmoon24 Ай бұрын

@@michaelthomas6088 I sent that comment 7 days ago, and you are just now replying. It shows how slow you are, which is why you have no clue what you are talking about. Don't leave negative comments like that and not expect backlash from ROH fans.