Fab4Cast talks to Mark Lewisohn (#2, Spring 1969)

In this second part of our interview with Mark Lewisohn, we talk about the lives of John, Paul, George and Ringo during the spring of 1969. What are Mark's views on the business issues, the drugs, the marriages and the music in this often overlooked period of The Beatles' career?

[@LennyJohnson5]

I went to Mark's presentation/lecture about Abbey Road ('Hornsey Road') at the Redgrave Theatre in Bristol last night, with my 28 year-old son; it was brilliant; illuminating, informative and so well-presented. If you think you know everything about the Beatles, think again; you don't. We both loved it.... Mark is a jewel, and he does important work. And a complete gentleman as well.

[@tonydeltablues]

Was there too. Agreed - great presentation (Mean Mister Mustard, Hornsey Road loads of material I hadn't read about). Spoke briefly to his after the show -proper gent.

[@LennyJohnson5]

@@tonydeltablues Yes, the back story for Mean Mr Mustard made me giggle; I always assumed he was straight out of John's imagination.

[@stevemacbeath]

Wonderful to hear Mark, he is a veritable guru of in depth and revealing knowledge 🌞🌞🌞

[@pawebedowski2302]

Quite simply the best , most interesting YT interview about The Beatles ever. Thanks so much Fab4Cast team for inviting Mr. Lewisohn!

[@BeFree8]

The Beatles break up was a loss for us all.

[@larydixon4824]

Once again, I would like to thank you for this great interview with Mark. You have done a fine job of allowing him to present a clear, unbiased perspective on the lives, influences, and iproductivity of these four remarkable young men!! Lary

[@kimmouse2719]

This was wonderful! Thank you!

[@1000Planets]

Fantastic interview. Thank you so much!

[@TANGERINEMIND]

...again...Precious!!!!! (part 2) thanks. Best wishes

[@mythserene]

One thing I like about Mark is his dedication to getting it right and understanding that as new information comes out & more facts provide context, sometimes original theories or things we're sure we know, change. What makes him so good is that he never shrinks from that. After seeing - okay, obsessively studying - Peter Jackson's 'Get Back' it seems pretty clear now that Paul was absolutely *desperate* to do the roof concert, not only because at that point it was that or nothing, but it also just happened to fulfill his original, expressed fantasy of a concert somewhere they weren't supposed to be. And if possible maybe even have the coppers come carry them off as they played. "You've got to take a bit of violence." (Although it didn't get quite that far.) His hesitation in pushing it as the deadline approached was clearly caution about repeating his mistakes from the first week. He's being so careful to avoid being bossy; working to steer clear of the issues that caused the rift at Twickenham. Instead he lures a bit, day by day, and lets John and Ringo pull George in. And if there was any doubt at all from just the audio, seeing Paul on that roof the first time they go up to check it out should remove it. Paul's addiction is performing, and it's impossible not to understand why.

[@federicotraeger2332]

Mark says that Let it be, was the only album where Ringo didn't get a song to sing, excluding Magical mystery tour which really was not meant to be an album. But what about A hard day's night? Ringo didn't get a song on that one.

[@TheJohnnyLivewire]

That's what I was thinking

[@Wolfington]

Good spot

[@kens.5095]

Exceptional! An absolute joy to hear two very knowledgeable Beatles aficionados exchanging stories and insights. Thanks!

[@PaoloSalasan]

36:45 - The other album in which they don't have a song for Ringo to sing the lead is A Hard Day's Night. Great interview, I loved it :)

[@dralfredcarroll9567]

I love that Mark Lewisohn is capable of admitting when he doesn't know something rather than blustering his way through things (as so many are apt to do).

[@Charleybones]

It is hard for me to understand after listening to numerous Mark Lewisohn interviews, how George Harrison, and Olivia Harrison, could be so adamant about not helping Mark in any way with his work on the Beatles. His criticism was that Mark was not there, so how could he know. But Lewisohn's exhaustive research does give him an amazing insight into their careers and lives that no one has come closer to achieving. And his goal seems sincere in wanting simply to properly document the amazing story of them and their experiences.

[@jacquescousteau217]

You would have to have had a business dealing with Olivia to understand. Maybe she has changed , but when George died I heard from her solicitor. Long story. It was totally unfair to me. Conversely her sister Linda that also worked at Dark Horse on the A&M lot in Los Angeles was great, and very giving to me . That was in the mid seventies however. Who knows ? ...

[@udeychowdhury2529]

Great interview, thanks

[@tonydeltablues]

These podcasts are really quite excellent, thanks.

[@Slydeil]

Superb interview, and we are lucky that someone of Mark Lewisohn's talent and knowledge is around providing such incredible information. And I have met him once at his 'Hornsey Road' lecture at Edinburgh, he's a nice chap too.

[@david_g_barron]

What is forgotten is that Pilcher had been waiting to bust George and Patti since Sunday 12th February 1967, when they were guests a weekend party at Redlands. At the time they had to wait for George and Patti to leave Redlands for that bust to take place, and Pilcher decided to bide his time and eventually did on Wednesday 12th March 1969.

[@russmangus]

While I really enjoyed this interview among much of Mark's work, I have to say his choice of "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)" as his favorite Beatles song is such a lordly, self impressed choice. The reason why Paul throws that one out there is because he said he had so much fun recording it and the memory of recording it brings him joy. As a listener, you can pick whatever song you want of course, but it just seems to me to be an over thought out reason or just a posh choice.

[@chriscampanozzi6516]

Great interview

[@jake105]

A lot of this stuff was on the "fly on the wall" CD included in Let it Be Naked . The whole Ringo won't go abroad and the QE2 conversation.

[@chuckjay2000]

LOL - "Crack in the Liberty Bell" Says Paul. All the Britains ask each other - "What's a Liberty Bell?"

[@UrlieGee]

Monty Python’s theme music was Souza’s ‘Liberty Bell March’ as well, I wonder if the Pythons knew the origin of the music? Pretty funny!

[@Wolfington]

I know what it is. Surprised Mark didn't to be honest.

[@spinalcrackerbox]

The Get Back sessions need to be divided into the miserable Twickenham sessions (Jan. 2 - 15) and the much better Preston-fortified sessions in the basement at Saville Row (Jan. 21 - 31), IMHO. Mark even hints at this but declares the whole sessions to have been a bit of a harmony fest. We also don't hear everything on the Magda reels, most maddeningly, after George walks out on the 14th the next reel is missing.

[@jacquescousteau217]

That’s a NAGRA recording. These were small integrated tape decks. Used in film all the time when things were still all analog.

[@josephblue4135]

The Liberty Bell, previously called the State House Bell or Old State House Bell, is an iconic symbol of American independence located in Philadelphia. Originally placed in the steeple of Pennsylvania State House, now known as Independence Hall. It has a huge crack in it. It cannot be rung at all. It is now displayed at the visitors' center across the street from Independence Hall.

[@liverpoolishgirl]

The Liberty Bell is a large bell in Independence Hall in Philadelphia that was pealed when the Declaration of Independence was signed and announced. It eventually cracked visibly and can no longer be rung.

[@bigboxbobby2]

Dylan did have someone who followed him around obsessively in the 60s and was known as the only living Dylanologist (I forget his name) but he was not a proper journalist and historian like Mark. Fab interviews thanks guys.

[@dralfredcarroll9567]

bigboxbobby2 Do you mean that nutcase who used to go through his bins?

[@bigboxbobby2]

@@dralfredcarroll9567 Yes that was the guy. He used to analyse Bobs garbage in search of little notes or word of wisdom somewhere in Bobs life.

[@jrh11254]

AJ Weberman

[@dalebonifant4855]

There was even a legally suspect album released of a phone call between the two, 1971.

[@t-bone_b]

The Liberty Bell is an American thing. There was a bell that got a crack in it.. it was from the early times of America. It is now housed in a museum in Philadelphia.

[@tonym994]

in the book 'a day in the Life', there was a reason which of course, escapes me that George wasn't there for 'the Ballad of John & Yoko'. the fab 4 obviously had been to Philadelphia. that's where the Liberty Bell ,a symbol of USA's independence from GB( which was dropped at one point, and cracked severely), resides .but I'm still not sure if you're putting me on about not knowing what it is.

[@frankstein9982]

Funny Lewisohn mentions the Liberty Bell cracking (re: Klein), but isn't sure what the Liberty Bell really is. It's in Philadelphia and is connected to America's Independence.

[@jake105]

I want to know if in fact George and John came to blows regarding Yoko eating Georges digestive biscuits?

[@fishhookism]

The liberty bell was a giant bell from the revolutionary war in America. Years later it was damaged with a giant crack in it. It represented freedon in America.

[@UrlieGee]

It’s actually still in Philadelphia, on display. I mentioned above, that Monty Python’s theme music was John Souza’s “Liberty Bell March”. 😁

[@spockboy]

I heard Cynthia Lennon (in an interview) once say that John looked at Paul in a way he never looked at anyone else. Guess she was inferring how close they actually were.

[@jrh11254]

She was implying.

[@spockboy]

@@jrh11254 INFER- "to deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements" However I do rather mean to imply that you should go fuck yourself .

[@tonym994]

excellent points about PLASTIC ONO BAND and Ringo in particular. that is forever Lennon's masterpiece.

[@donnaone1nine]

Not addicts? Your thoughts on the January 14, 1969 Two Junkies interview at Twickenham Film Studios. Is it possible not to get hooked? Hmmmm, maybe we'll try it then.

[@cyclesgoff9768]

😱 so the fab 4 invented the Rock Cruise 🚢 😍

[@bluehorizon9435]

This is such an insightful interview. But why would the Beatles and George Martin portray the Let It Be sessions as fraught and dark? I just don't see the logic of it. Any ideas, anyone?

[@popgoesthe60s52]

Yes. The Let It Be film and album came out at the time of the announcement of the break up. Because the breakup was now public, the Beatles had to answer for it. When the biggest band in the world splits, they'd better give the world a good reason. But breakups are complicated and they really didn't have a good reason to give the public. The film and the album became a scapegoat and the film offered some visual and audio evidence to back that up. But I've listened to the 90+ hours of the sessions and I agree with Mark that it is not nearly as bad as reported. Writers enlarged what John had put forth in the Jann Wenner interview, and created a narrative that we have come to know.

[@patrickmoreau7592]

Liberty Bell is the bell that was cracked in the American revolution.

[@redflamered]

Totally agree with Mark that the Ron Howard film 8 Days a Week was HORRIBLE. Pure Garbage.

[@spinalcrackerbox]

Yeah, what a let down that was. Happy to hear Mark feels the same way.

[@reuvengershon6625]

I thought it was great. Why do you think its so bad?

[@waynedeadder664]

@@reuvengershon6625 the Beatles came to America and partied. Met girls. It was fluff. Its been 60 years. We can tell truths

[@tonym994]

never heard Lennon's speaking voice sound like he was on junk. and in person on film or TV, he's not high on junk. no tell tale face rubbing, and itching. he said he & Yoko never went beyond snorting it, which is an admission that he used it, obviously. and 'Cold Turkey 'does sound inspired. don't think it was big in his life, tho. KEEP WRITING, MARK.

[@jacquescousteau217]

You nailed it ! The press ,and poseurs write all this rubbish they know nothing about. They snorted smack for a couple of weeks, and it turns into all this anecdotal bullshit. He wasn’t strung out,never went to rehab etc.etc. You’re right. His eyes didn’t appear pinned,he was always on top of things. Neither John or Yoko ever nodded off. Someone should put that story to bed. Thanks for being a realist. Kudos

[@tonym994]

@@jacquescousteau217 you're entirely welcome. there's a bootleg video my friend (who's a big time ZEPPELIN fan)showed me of Page having to sit down during a gig , to wait for something. which apparently came and straightened him out. a bigger fan than even me said it. it's not like he copped junk on film, it was edited. but he sat on the drum stand while playing, and didn't look very able. just sayin'. human frailties exist. I saw Keith Moon collapse at the Garden on downers or something. make-up show was literally smashing.

[@mikeysaint4368]

9:20 George Martin was a very unreliable source, from his initial meeting with Ringo onwards.

[@thekitowl]

Alan Parsons & Geoff Emeric both backed Martin that the Beatles were at loggerheads in the studio . Geoff even sited the bad atmosphere as the reason he quit. Just because it’s not on tape doesn’t prove they weren’t arguing, it might have been a kindness not to record them. I’ve also found some discrepancies over some of Martins statements.

[@astrosjer822]

A great producer but a flawed memory

[@astrosjer822]

@@thekitowl all groups argue and fight. But for many of those groups like the Eagles and the Police, those fights are on the tapes, for the Beatles it is not!

[@mikeysaint4368]

@@thekitowl Geoff Emerick had grudges, as can be seen in his remarks about George Harrison's guitar playing. Having said that, no one could compete with Harrison when it came to grudges. My point being that both Martin and Emerick are unreliable.

[@stevehilderbrandt9458]

I’m very honest. Beatles fans are not going. Like what I have to say. Yes I do believe Beatles are overrated band not the greatest musician. Everyone hail them as the gods of rock. Give me a break People kiss their ass. Not me. The Rolling Stones. The Who Led Zeppelin Pink Floyd are better than the Beatles. Especially The Rolling Stones came out same time I love their music way better than the Beatles.

[@jake105]

Oh really? How nice for you.