Fact vs Opinion | A Confused Category!

[@ashleycrother6619]

This continues to affirm my feeling that critical thinking classes are taught far too late in life. This should be elementary school stuff!

[@LetsGetLogical]

Agreed. As long as the critical thinking is taught well. 🙂

[@blackcatpirates8134]

Yeah

[@danielwalsh3194]

At one point you say that facts are realities rather than statements. Later, you say you believe lots of facts. This is a contradiction. What you believe are not facts but factual statements. Great video though. Much needed.

[@LetsGetLogical]

Nice catch. Yes, the term 'fact' has multiple senses and we too casually slip back and forth between the various meanings-as I accidentally demonstrated. 😆 I should have followed my own advice and stuck to the language of truth, belief, and justification.

[@kristinewood3473]

I would like to know why you do not identify yourself as owner of "Let's get Logical." Why can't I research your background? This would help me assess your objectivity, especially in consideration of media potential to misrepresent our evasive search for "truth..." Are you, in fact, Don Marquis?

[@LetsGetLogical]

Ha, ha, no! I'm not a "big name" philosopher like Marquis. Nor am I a celebrity professor at some Ivy League university. I'm just a run-of-the-mill community college philosophy professor. To that extent you are concerned about the search for truth, you and I are in full agreement, Kristine. It's what the channel is for! Helping people sort through difficult philosophical questions. Thanks for watching!

[@kristinewood3473]

@@LetsGetLogical Thank you for writing back to me. But I still do not understand why you do not identify yourself (?) Especially since this is one (the first) way we as viewers research our sources. Please?

[@SeanAnthony-j7f]

In my opinion, this is my opinion

[@Linehanwa]

This was excellent - that’s my opinion. Thanks

[@LetsGetLogical]

Dare I say it's a fact? 😄

[@scottpfenninger1813]

"not some kind of fraud... like FROZEN YOGURT"

[@blackcatpirates8134]

You are SPITTING FACTS in my opinion

[@dawnparrish6910]

I loved this until you said, "Hell..." Not that I think it's a horrible word, but my students will freak if they hear that!

[@LetsGetLogical]

Awww! Good point. I make these for college students and typically have adults in mind for my audience, but still.... I should have thought of that!

[@bradleyconrad678]

When it is said “a fact is a statement that can be proven true, or false” it alludes to the the epistemic reality that in order for something to be considered “true” it must at least 𝙞𝙣 𝙥𝙧𝙞𝙣𝙘𝙞𝙗𝙡𝙚 be able to be shown to be “false”. Knowledge (facts) is the subset of our beliefs (opinions) that can, at least provisionally, be shown to be true. There is no dichotomy between opinion and fact, except that a “factual” opinion is one that can be backed up with sufficient evidence to determine that it is “provisionally true”. Mere “opinion” is relegated to subjective statements such as “strawberry is the best flavour of ice cream”.😂

[@LetsGetLogical]

I wish everyone would follow your advice and relegate their use of "opinion" to subjective statements. But watch and listen: that's not what people do. That's one reason there is so much confusion about fact and opinion. I bet you'd be interested in hearing David Chalmers refutation of your verifiability criterion of truth. It's really interesting and can be found in his recent book _Reality +_ (which I highly recommend-a lot of fun and philosophically rigorous). It goes something like this: imagine we're in a closed simulation. By closed, I mean that the architects of the simulation have designed and set the simulation running, but then walked away-they will not communicate with the sims. In that case it is *_in principle_* unverifiable that we are in a simulation. But nevertheless we are. That's the truth. So there you go: an in-principle unverifiable truth. We just wouldn't _know_ that truth. But I can tell from your comments that you're sophisticated enough to know the difference between states of affairs obtaining and having epistemic access to those states of affairs. Again, thanks for your comments. It's nice to know there are people out there who are interested in this stuff.

[@meindopen007]

I scratched the surface of this fact/opinion discussion in 7th grade on a quiz. We had a list of 10 statements, and had to determine if each was a fact or opinion (this was not at the depth of this video, talking about "statement" vs "actual occurrence," etc.). But I'm still bothered by it to this day (36 years later!). I couldn't convince my teacher that the statement, "I think this flower is pretty" is a fact. She claimed it was an opinion. I argued that if the statement were, "This flower is pretty," then it would be an opinion. I still hold with my argument on this. 😁

[@LetsGetLogical]

Love this. My students have told me many similar stories! 😄

[@kj9358]

Omg that’s so me, that’s why I suck at tests because I always get super technical.

[@kwreck0022]

I actually agree with this analysis, even though your teacher didn't quite grasp the subtlety. To me it actually reinforces the F/O framework; whenever someone forms an opinion, that is a fact in and of itself, but it does NOT affect the "facts on the ground"...

[@CasualPhilosophy]

Wow I was thinking of doing something on this topic myself...but there's little to improve on here. It would be interesting to see what we could salvage from the words "fact" and "opinion" that captures some of the original intuitions and would be useful for critical thinking. Depending on what your commitments are re:truth & justification, then a theory of how your beliefs properly relate to facts can become highly relevant!

[@russelsteapot8991]

No, please do a video about facts and opinions. I don't care if you spill out the same information. People need to know about how ambiguous facts/opinions are.

[@reesespcs2159]

Very informative and easy to understand! I love the animation effects and the narrative. A++

[@tourist9862]

I deal with this on a daily basis at my university. Students are in an unfortunate situation today.

[@WhileSilent]

beautifully put, thanks

[@alexandrosmartinez508]

Our world would be better if opinions did not exist. They do more harm.

[@chrisliddiard725]

Opinions exist as a type, to make it clear they are not facts. As for the form those opinions take, well that is us expressing our freedom of thought. or expressing the control that the culture has on our thoughts. Be very careful what you wish for.

[@chrisliddiard725]

This argument boils down to a casual definition of facts vs an all-encompassing definition of opinions. Rather than abandon this way of classifying thought, it seems to me we need robust definitions of facts and opinions. We need definitions that differentiate between the casual usage and the 'scientific' usage of those definitions. Facts based on empirical evidence, which isn't guessed at, or based simply on the biggest numbers. eg statistical belief. but based on repeatability. Facts that aren't first culturally shared and expected. As we debate usage, we have the prospect of A/i and its sea of meta purporting to be facts. A techy version of opinions that circulates in the absence of contradictions, as though it were facts. If we can't agree on this classification of thought and truth, then what hope have we in this A/i future.

[@LetsGetLogical]

@chrisliddiard725 I think we at least partially agree. Usage of the terms 'fact' and 'opinion' vary wildly by context. But the differences in usage are not widely recognized and this leads to a lot of confusion and sloppy thinking.

[@jakobdonskov]

This video should be part of the curriculum for US teachers. Hopefully we can get rid of that horrible (and harmful) distinction

[@LetsGetLogical]

I’m not vain enough to think *my video* should be seen by all teachers, but I do wish I could think of a way to get more teachers familiar with the philosophical problems behind this sloppy thinking and , as you say, get rid of this _harmful_ distinction.

[@EzekielTimothyBocaling]

Dont click read more

[@MegaChoupidou]

This deserves way more views. Thanks a lot for your work.

[@LetsGetLogical]

Appreciate your feedback, Alaoui91. Spread the word that fact/opinion is an unhelpful distinction!

[@Dante_Grimiz]

Good vid tnx man ❤

[@speedracer9132]

I like your overall point, but it took me 5 minutes into the video to see where you were going with this. Perhaps if you could find ways to condense the entire video into 5 minutes, you’d retain more viewership. Then make a 20 minute deep dive on the topic if you think it’s necessary

[@LetsGetLogical]

Good idea! I think I will do this.

[@speedracer9132]

Justified vs unjustified I may add, “is my reason that ‘I’ believe it’s true, or is there evidence based research that says it’s true”

[@solumblu5979]

my opinion on this is that all just opinions, some closer to reality than others

[@LetsGetLogical]

I'd be okay with "opinion" = belief of any kind and "fact" = reality of any kind. But unfortunately, the common usage of "fact" and "opinion" is not consistent. It varies wildly, resulting in all kinds of confusion and manipulation.

[@russelsteapot8991]

In my opinion, your channel is so underrated.

[@russelsteapot8991]

Do facts only pertain to something about the objective world, or can it also pertain to something nonexistent, such as Harry Potter liked Cho. That statement seem to have meaning, thus seem to be either true or false, or undetermined. Whether a proposition's truth is dependent on empirical evidence and good reason, or a proposition's truth is already found in the proposition itself, I don't know. It seems to me that a propisition's truth is contingent on the world and the person who uttered the statement and had observed that particular world. However, if facts only pertain to the objective world, then I can say, a little hesitantly, that the statement "Harry liked Cho" is a false statement, not a fact because it doesn't pertain to the objective world (I.e., nowhere in the world can we see a person named Harry Potter liking a person named Cho; therefore, there is no mind to world direction of fit). In the matter of facts vs opinion, if I neglect the nonexistent world, I'd define fact as something true about the objective world, and its truth can be based either on empirical evidence, or good reason that follows and isn't fallacious; whereas, an opinion can be either a fact under the guise of a faulty or incomplete statement; or a false statement (I'm not suggesting that when an opinion is expressed, it can become both a false statement and a fact under the guise of a faulty or incomplete statement. Instead, when an opinion is expressed, the statement either holds as a fact, or is completely false).

[@LetsGetLogical]

These are great questions and you're touching on a lot of rich philosophical territory. For instance, there is a whole literature on the nature of fictional objects. Is it true to say hobbits have hairy feet? I think so. But how can it be _true_ when hobbits do not exist?! My own view is that hobbits (and Harry Potter) are abstract artifacts. In other words, HP didn't exist until J.K. Rowling made him up. But once she did, Harry Potter the _fictional character_ came into existence. Wait! So Harry Potter the flesh-and-blood boy really exists?! No. Rather a non-physical, abstract entity exists. And we can say true and false things about that abstract entity: for instance, it's true that Harry has a scar and false that he is blonde. But I don't think the main thrust of you comment was about the nature of fictional objects. You were exploring how _facts_ fit into the picture. And here I'm afraid I'll just repeat myself from the video. The term 'fact' has many senses in English. Sometimes it means "the state of affairs that makes a statement true." Other times it simply means "a true statement." In some cases, it means "a true statement that has strong evidence supporting it." And sometimes it means something even stronger. Something like, "a true statement that has strong evidence supporting it and is widely-recognized by the relevant experts as well-established." All these usages of the term 'fact' are in play in our language. The problem-as I try to show in the video-is that people switch back and forth between these senses of 'fact' all the time without realizing it. So "Harry likes Cho" _is_ a fact. More surprising, it's a fact in _all_ the senses of 'fact' given above. For example, it is widely-recognized by the relevant experts (i.e. HP fans) as being well-supported (i.e. readers can point you to the parts of the text where it is clear that Harry likes Cho). I think you can probably work it all out once you take into account that the World contains more than just physical objects in space-time. There are also abstract objects. Now you have the "mind to world" fit you were looking for to make it _true_ that Harry likes Cho. And what makes it true? The way the World is. Because the World contains the abstract objects HP and Cho. And we can say true things about those entities. NB: Fiction is not my area of specialization so I may have tripped over a few of the details above. But that's roughly how I'd answer. 👊🏼

[@chrisliddiard725]

One definition of the facts would be that which can't be contradicted. The facts, as the whole facts and nothing but the facts. That said, there is always more than we know, always that greater truth. Courts are a great example of the facts being played with, limited to just those questions we wish to see answered.

[@tapz110]

Your videos are very fun and informative. You will get a lot more subscribers soon enough, it's bound to happen given their quality. Thank you!

[@sebastianronesen4407]

This👆🏼 Came here after a fast KZbin search to explain someone I’m having a discussion with that my fact based opinion is a fact. Even though yes it is my opinion, it’s still a fact.

[@sebastianronesen4407]

Just to clarify. By “fact” I mean that my opinion is true because it’s based on something that has been scientifically proven.

[@comissardann]

It could be related to the more abstract Criticism (In my country dictionary at least: The pragmatic analysis of something, objectively reviewing the quality of something in the endless, I repeat, the endless search of a irrefutable truth) vs Opinion (Personal concept based of neither fake or true facts) dilemma. Just because you prefer A doesn't mean B is objectively bad because B doesn't appeal to you, as an A fan. I believe that most critics, including movie, gaming, political critics, don't even try to make the argument that, they are indeed applying a pragmatic criticism, instead, they are just giving opinions all the time, masked as criticism. Me personally, i don't like the new God of War, but i can't objectively point where this game is worse than the others, because it is objectively good, as graphics, fluid gameplay, writing, and mechanics go, but I still prefer the old ones because they are more nostalgic to me. I noticed that a lot of people (at least in US) tend to analyze things more with the heart than with logic. Halo 3, one of the most loved Halo games, if not, the favorite of fans, has objectively the most plot holes of all the franchise, totally contradictory writing, and still, is said to have the best campaign of all the other games, despite having the unquestionably worst writing of the first trilogy.

[@meindopen007]

Really enjoyed this! Watched and discussed for probably over an hour. I'm not entirely on board with one part (not sure it was explained throughout the video or not): Starting at 1:23, I don't ever think my opinions are "true," at least as far as I understand the word "true." My opinions are just that- "opinions." I also don't understand how some of my opinions have to be true. If something is true, how can I have an opinion about that? Further, if a thing is true, I'm not really entitled to an opinion about it, am I?

[@LetsGetLogical]

Thank you, meindopen007! With respect to your question, it sounds like you are thinking of opinions as attitudes about subjective matters of taste where there is no underlying objective truth. Which is a perfectly legitimate understanding of the term _opinion_ . No quarrel there. But what about a case where you disagree with a friend, for instance, about the quickest route downtown? You say take the back streets, he says take the exit from the highway. You discuss it a bit but eventually give up and say, "Well, you have your opinion and I have mine." That seems to me a legitimate use of the term _opinion_ . But in this case, there might be an underlying, objective truth. For instance, you might be right that taking the back streets _really is_ quicker. Here I'd say your opinion was true and your friend's opinion was false. Would you agree?

[@rc7211]

​@@LetsGetLogical "Well, you have your opinion and I have mine." Those statements are not opinions. Opinions are not verifiable. We can verify both of those statements, and one would turn out to be correct, and the other, false. Both fall within the domain of facts; one of them is a false claim. I don't think the creator of this video really understands the concepts of fact and opinion, sorry (this was an opinion!) Anyway, please watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/faSci3qNlJaig68

[@LetsGetLogical]

@@rc7211 I watched the video you linked but unfortunately it trips over all the philosophical confusions I warned about in my video. But thanks for viewing and take the time to comment!

[@novagalium]

THANK YOU! I was trying to teach fact and opinion recently and the discussion quickly became a mess.

[@LetsGetLogical]

I hope the suggestions at the end were helpful! Better to have your students evaluate whether claims are _true_ . And the only way to do that is to evaluate whether the claims are _justified_ or _well-supported_ or backed by _good reasons_ . Then you're in a position to know whether to _believe_ the claim or not. The terms 'fact' and 'opinion' need not come into it at all.

[@dominiks5068]

excellent video. I also like Putnam's take on the fact/value distinction

[@LetsGetLogical]

Can you point me to the relevant article? I'd be interested to read what Putnam has to say on that.

[@dominiks5068]

@@LetsGetLogical Hilary Putnam - The Collapse of the Fact/Value Dichotomy and Other Essays

[@LetsGetLogical]

@@dominiks5068 Just skimmed several reviews and I already like what Putnam is getting at. For instance, it appears that he says one reason facts and values cannot be easily separated is that facts-to be recognized as facts-require us to apply _epistemic values_ such as simplicity, elegance, coherence, and so on. So science, that bastion of objective facts, is already infused with all kinds of values. Good stuff. Thanks for the reference.

[@dominiks5068]

@@LetsGetLogical It's interesting that you haven't read Putnam, because his argument is actually very similiar to yours. So you should be proud - you independently made a video with the same talking points as one of the most respected contemporary philosophers :)

[@LetsGetLogical]

@@dominiks5068 Worse... I've _met_ Putnam! Guess I just overlooked this part of his work. Thanks again.