FADAL TRM - Centroid CNC Oak DMM AC Servo Conversion - Finale'

[@bonkbonk92]

I appreciate all these videos you have on upgrading CNC controllers. I maybe have to do something like that for my old Matsuura I just got. Keep up the good work!

[@whistle3man]

How do you like the centroid? Any pros or cons you would like to share. Im very seriously considering Centroid for a cnc plasma rebuild.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Personally would not use anything else. Hardware and software from the same company who has specialized in CNC Motion control for well over 30 years. Constantly improving software.

[@whistle3man]

@@martyscncgarage5275 that is how I felt. Glad you confirmed it. BTW I have been enjoying your other videos. Thanks for taking the time to make detailed videos. I'll be watching a lot of them. Also subscribed. Thanks

[@martyscncgarage5275]

​​@@whistle3man​@whistle3man Thanks. Unfortunately Centroid has made so many improvements to their software and hardware, the videos became somewhat obsolete. But that IS a testament to Centroids commitment to improvements. All their boards are true motion controllers and now they have a solution for just about every project. You just need a good machine and the skills to execute the conversion.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

​@@whistle3manTheir user forums are a great resource. You should check out their success stories to see what others have done if you haven't already. centroidcncforum.com/

[@whistle3man]

@@martyscncgarage5275 thanks. No problem on the machine end. I spent over 40 years in machining with the last 27 designing machining assembling and testing large research equipment for a large aluminum company.

[@seimela]

Did the resistor solve the issue

[@dylanschulz2404]

I need to just do this with my VMC40. Sell all my DC stuff and make some of the money back! Thanks for the video.

[@glennbevan8743]

What brand of servo drives do you prefer

[@markdion9932]

Yes it has a umbrella stle tool changer and a 3 phase AC sindle motor.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

The FADAL is a simple bed mill. ATC adds a WHOLE level of complexity and expense. If you have to pay someone to do it, it will likely cost more than the machine is worth. If you did it yourself, budget about $12k in parts and materials.

[@terrellbradshaw3504]

Yea, getting the Calmotion replacement control would present the least headache and not reinventing the wheel. Unless you just want a project and challenge. I would subscribe to your build.

[@airgunningyup]

this must have taken months . You must be either retired, single , or both. excellent machine

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Retired. Done a few conversions...

[@glennbevan8743]

On your GS 3 Spindle Dr. does it have an external braking resistor I and when you say a little more expensive about what kind of cost

[@markdion9932]

Yes it has a umbrella style tool changer and a 3 phase AC spindle motor i would leave for know.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Would need more details. IF you are planning on using a Centroid control, I would suggest you take pictures of your control cabinet, write down the make and model of the spindle drive and servo drives and the motors and post your question there. We can give you better advice by "seeing" what you are working with. centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=20

[@markdion9932]

@@martyscncgarage5275 thanks Marty, I will follow up with that information.

[@glennbevan8743]

Do you use a knowledgeable supplier for your serval drives and spindle drives or do you just go online and shop for what you think you need I’m just getting started and trying to figure this

[@jasonruch3529]

I was also curious why you didnt go with the acorn to save money? And what is the difference between pulse and direction and velocity? Im in the thought process of building my own machine (NOT A FLIMSY ALUMINIUM ROUTER WITH SILLY STEPPER MOTORS) and i am really looking twards centriod ( being from eastern pa) for the controller! I have alot of ideas for Digitizing fixtures forecastings. I would like to know the difference in accuracy and so forth. Im also trying to figure out plc for a tool changer. By the way i love youe videos! If KZbin would have showed me your 1st video on the fadal I would not have had to ask those questions lol..sorry about that.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

I could have gone with Acorn, but a machine of this caliber, and like new condition, deserved to stay with a true closed loop system. (The machine has since been sold) If you are interested in Centroid, post pictures of your machine, your expectations and what you want to do on the Centroid Acorn User Forum: centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60 BTW. There are tool changers PLCs already done for Acorn and MANY for Oak/All in One DC. Mostly depends on your budget, machine and expectations.

[@benrasmussen9878]

I was looking at an old boring mill with an out dated control. But machine seems pretty solid, I keep thinking centroid I'd a good choice

[@donaldhollingsworth3875]

I really liked your video's even though a lot of the electrical stuff went over my head. I'm a machinist by trade. I love the condition that the Fadal milling machine was in. It looked brand new or had been recently rebuilt. I also liked the fact that you labeled most of the wiring & connections which you rarely see anymore. I would be proud to own a machine which you re-controlled. It would be great to see a Bridgeport style machine controlled with Centroid CNC Oak unit. While DC axis motors are fine for low speed & torque, they use a resolver which is less accurate than using AC servo motors with encoders. The proper way to cut a test piece is a circle, square, & triangle. Those measurements will give you the needed comps you have to enter into the controls. Or in the good old days adjusting the machine itself so you have the same measurements within +/- .001. There is no way to hold +/- .0005 or .0001 no matter what the machine manufacturer says. I learned this growing up with my father & brother working at Ingersoll Milling Machines. They did everything from building, to wiring, to installation, to repair work. I also learned this from the machines GE bought based on the manufacturer's saying their machine was capable of .0001 repeatability.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

I recently completed a Clausing Kondia FV-1 knee mill.see it in my other videos if you haven't already. Centroid controls use encoders. I only buy and refit machines that have been well maintained.

[@glennbevan8743]

If I have a 7.5 hp three phase motor and I’m going to buy a Durapulse VFDGS a Durapulse VFD would a 10 hp VFD be better than a 7.5 or would I have problems

[@martyscncgarage5275]

You will only find 3 phase VFDs at those horsepower ratings. What does the spindle motor tag say? Automationdirect.com has great support. Don't be afraid to call them tomorrow and ask. But make sure you have all the information from the spindle motor label

[@markneary874]

By chance do you have the fadal keyboard still? I am trying to find one.. Thanks

[@martyscncgarage5275]

No sir. I sold all the original parts. You can still buy them.

[@markneary874]

@@martyscncgarage5275 please tell me where. Fadal tells me they are discontinued. And thank you for your time.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

​@@markneary874 sorry to hear that. There are several dealers of Fadal products. I assumed you googled them and tried them all? I guess then there is eBay...

[@glennbevan8743]

I have a mighty comment 660 I am looking at a centroid retrofit and trying to figure out where to start .I am in Boise Idaho I am looking for someone that’s done a retrofit in this area that I can look at what they have done and a chance to talk to them . Any other advice on getting started would help.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Post pictures of the machine, close ups of the labels on the servo motors, spindle motor, spindle drive, axis drives and their model numbers, and a good high resolution overall shot of the control cabinet here centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=64

[@jasonruch3529]

May i ask what size dmm servos and drives you used? What model? And witch drives? Dyn2 or 4? Beautiful job!

[@martyscncgarage5275]

DYN4, 1.3kw servos

[@jasonruch3529]

Lets not forget how easy it is to add a probe and tool lenght setter witch i dont think that fadal had?

[@martyscncgarage5275]

I sold it to a friend, and yes, it now has A DP-4 and a TT-1B

[@martyscncgarage5275]

It is very easy to add the probe bulkhead connector to your machine and plugs right into a dedicated port on the Oak and All in One DC

[@alangrant5219]

Marty, after this whole experience controlling DMM DYN4 with the Oak, how do you feel about the drives and their setup. Would you use them again with a full closed loop build?

[@MartyEscarcega]

Possibly. Depends on the build

[@alangrant5219]

@@MartyEscarcega Ok, I am retrofitting an early 90’s Acer bedmill with its original anilam 3300mk control. I want the benefit of new servos with high resolution encoders and have decided on an oak controller. The dmm 1.3 kw servos are nearly a direct bolt in and fit my budget in a way that allows for a more feature filled finish product. I was worried about using a less supported brand, but dmm has been great to deal with so far. Having the control circuits also be plug and play after using the dmm cables and setting up the centroid system is very appealing. I can’t see a good reason to use higher dollar drives in my hobby machine application.

[@MartyEscarcega]

@@alangrant5219 by all means then. Do know you need a line reactor and a Regen resistor on Z axis. Is your Z counter weighted? If your machine has DC Brush servos now, you could upgrade to All in One DC. May need new encoders

[@alangrant5219]

@@MartyEscarcega My machine is counterweighted, so no need for a Z axis brake. I have worked through the schematics and will be including the appropriate reactor, line filters etc… I am choosing Oak and new servos because i have a few other machines to convert if this goes well, and shared components allow me to stock an extra motor and drive in case of failure. So all new components that are common is taking me away from an allinone DC. Your videos are a great resource and I very much appreciate that you have made them. Thank you

[@jasonruch3529]

Is it using pwm for th servos or pulse and direction? Also i missed what spindle motor hp was? Could you let me know so i have an idea about how my build will go since i do not have 3phase

[@martyscncgarage5275]

No step and direction here. It is setup in Precision mode in Oak. Oak is a true closed loop motion controller.

[@ericschneiter]

Marty, does centroid have setup instructions for DMM drives? Also looking for a cheaper option spindle inverter. Any advice? Thanks sir!

[@martyscncgarage5275]

For what control? Oak? No, they don't. DMM does have the data cables they buy from Centroid and fit up their connectors so they will work with Oak. They will also provide basic instructions. You use PRECISION mode for those drives. Cheap VFD? You don't give any information about your build, what HP etc. I like GS3 series VFDs from Automationdirect.com I have recently had good luck with the TD200 series from Factorymation.com I will not buy cheap import VFDs anymore. All you need is EMI noise issues and you will end up buying a quality VFD and will have already spent money on the cheap import. Your application makes some difference.

[@BenjaminCarlson1]

Do you have any details on wiring the Z-axis brake? I've been trying to figure out the best way to get it wired up on my Milltronics Partner 00, and don't feel confident in the way I've done it at this point. Thanks for all of your videos - very inspirational! :)

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Are you using DMM AC Servo with brake? Are you using a Centroid Control? Do you have a separate 24VDC Power supply?

[@BenjaminCarlson1]

@@martyscncgarage5275 Hey Marty - I'm using the Centroid All-in-one DC, it's a DC servo machine. My z-brake takes 90v DC and I have an Antek power supply. I guess I was trying to figure out if I disble the brake at the same time power is applied to the z-axis servo, or (milliseconds)before or after?

[@martyscncgarage5275]

@@BenjaminCarlson1 Please post your question on the Centroid User's forum. I have NEVER heard of a 90VDC brake, but I suppost it is possible. You should be using a contactor rated for that voltage, driven by output 9 I believe. You would use a control voltage equal to that of the contactor controlling the brake. Run it through output 9 to turn that contactor on and off. The control will turn on output 9 as soon as motion is called for, home, jog, MDI. It will open when there is a fault or estop condition. PLEASE post your scenario on the forum. Be sure to post a FRESH report and pictures of your control cabinet and explain how you have the Z axis brake wired now. centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=64

[@BenjaminCarlson1]

@@martyscncgarage5275 Ah - good call. I always forget there's a forum! Thanks Marty!

[@silden11]

where are you going to offer your machines?

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Denis, the FADAL appears to be spoken for. The Clausing will is for sale. I am in Mesa, AZ Prefer a local sale so I can support the machines.

[@silden11]

martyscncgarage How much you are looking for for the Clausing? I’m in LA.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

@@silden11 Email me directly at my You Tube Channel name @gmailDOTcom

[@martyscncgarage5275]

@@silden11 The Clausing is currently listed for $7850 and has the latest Servo Software including the digitizing package.

[@markdion9932]

can you give me a ball park figure on how much it cost to convert the fadal. I have a Leadwell Liberty just a little bigger and would like to convert it. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Mark, that's hard to say. Does your machine have a tool changer or no? What kind of spindle drive? Will you replace it??

[@summitx670]

Forgive me if I missed this, but are you controlling the DMM DYN4 drives in velocity mode?

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Precision mode

[@kimenges8703]

Interesting stuff! Question: You seem to not be using any ac line reactor for DYN4 drives. Is this intentional? I read from the documentation for DYN4 drives that the line reactor is optional.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

Ultimately yes, a line reactor was required. So Yes, add it. Automationdirect.com sells them. Also the Z drive needs the regenerative braking resistor.

[@deathjoker136]

Did you buy or make the cables to connect the dyn4 drives to the oak control? I have a Bridgeport Apollo II that I’m am putting and oak on and would like to use dyn4 servos on it.

[@martyscncgarage5275]

BUY! Them from DMM already made up. Not worth the grief and headache to make your own! Unless you are experienced and have the tools to connectorize.