Fairtrade is not fair

Fairtrade does very little for farmers in the Third World. It kills some. But it is very good for Western Business.
A talk given to the European Coffee Symposium in Vienna by Dr Peter Griffiths

[@griffithsspeaker]

I have worked in 35 countries, so I understand their similarities and differences.I could write a book on it. I could not put it in a ten minute talk on another subject. And yes, I know what cooperatives owned by highly educated capitalist farmers who employ top managers can do. But research and experience shows cooperatives owned by semi-literate small farmers tend to have serious problems. Lots of research, over 100 years.

[@francesxiao4544]

Thanks a lot, your paper is really helpful!

[@johnnyjimj]

THANK YOU, Mr Griffiths!!!

[@ZechsMerquise73]

Peter, could you do a regular video log on KZbin? I find this speech fascinating, and you seem very charismatic.

[@toterrachin]

Your Journal of Business Ethics paper was really useful. ^^

[@griffithsspeaker]

Yes, as you say, they will give certification to any company that pays them, however revolting. Ethics doesn't come into it.

[@samwisemusic]

I am writing this from third world country, Malaysia.. trying to help the farmers here. Thanks Peter for your insights about Fairtrade. What will be your advice or other alternate options?

[@toterrachin]

Thanks so much Mr Griffiths

[@bereal9778]

His right fair trade exists to make the guilty feel less guilty

[@joohandicrafts5581]

Respected sir we are artisans from Kashmir making paper mache products. We are hardly earning 1 dollar per day for the last 3 years and now artisans are not interest in handicraft sector. They are going to other fields like atm guards.fair trade is doing good job by making rich more richer and doing efforts to help artisans only on paper not on ground level. This is game of fair trade to make poor artisans foolish.

[@ritamalik]

BRAVO!!!! Very good video!

[@griffithsspeaker]

You have hit the nail on the head. The information you need, plus some new references is in my Journal of Business Ethics paper, Ethical Objections to Fairtrade. It is on my website which KZbin will not let me mention here! I will be happy to help you get any papers and references you need. Best Wishes

[@philipgarrett282]

i occasionally work as a supply teacher and was asked to teach a lesson on poster logo design in design technology. the school had an ofsted inspection and the lesson was set. the subject of the poster was on Fairtrade fortnight. I felt uneasy about the endorsement of something outside of the subject taught. and the whole powerpoint presentation (already set)was on how good the fairtrade movement is. I made a point of stating (in industry)you should question any potential client who commissions you to(in this case) design a poster advertising campaign. i instead tried to place more emphasis on core skills in sketching and visualising. I see that, in education now young people are encouraged to think less. Even textbooks in many subjects now, contain less content and are more about colourful presentation. we are depriving people of Knowledge at a young level

[@griffithsspeaker]

A powerful observation. Confirming what I say in my Ethics in Education paper. Did it make you popular to ask awkward questions? Could you send copies of my paper to your teacher colleagues? Down load at www.griffithsspeaker.com/Fairtrade/why_fair_trade_isn.htm. Griffiths, P., 2014. Fairtrade in Schools: teaching ethics or unlawful marketing to the defenceless?. Ethics and Education,

[@philipgarrett282]

Hello Peter, I shall forward this on. I am not in the school anymore but hope that they look into this. One of the problems is many academy schools are affected by this dilema. I think I first noticed it when in 2001 whilst in full time employment, my form was not allowed to sell toast in the morning to raise money for charity . The deputy politely informed me that I was not permitted to do this as the canteen's job and that they have the franchise. As I remember the canteen didn t open before school at that time. Pitiful!

[@griffithsspeaker]

philip garrett Well yes, business comes first: education later!

[@roapromotions]

So what is the proper and ethical fair trade system ?

[@ofworldwonder]

One solution? I buy raw coffee exclusively from farmers I know in Northern Thailand.

[@jimbloggers418]

brilliant video

[@francesxiao4544]

thanks a lot.

[@griffithsspeaker]

e.g. The evidence suggests that generous people pay £1 billion a year extra in the belief that this money goes to farmers in poor countries. In fact, nearly all is pocketed by firms in rich countries.

[@toterrachin]

Mr Griffiths, you seem really knowledgeable so could you please help me with something? Currently at school we have been assigned a project. This project, in a nutshell is: We have been given a scenario and we have to find a solution to it. However if we find that this scenario does not deserve a solution, we can instead "prove" it does not deserve a scenario. Our scenario is that a chocolate company using fair trade cocoa is not getting enough attention.

[@Prettyyellow99]

This is sad but true :( i’ve worked for a fair trade 3rd world exporter company… and we haggled down the prices of our artisans product just to be able to reach our clients asking price. The workers barely gets any profit and the rest goes to our salaries :(((( breaks my heart whenever this happens.

[@BillyPalmerMusic]

Is the use of cooperatives the only way that Fairtrade farms are inefficient?

[@griffithsspeaker]

@candrestm I am deeply sympathetic about someone doing their best for their people when, as they say, the system is stacked against them.

[@griffithsspeaker]

The Fairtrade standards explicitly say that the money goes to (a) Fairtrade itself for registration, inspection and advertising and (b) to the exporting firm, possibly 1000 miles from the farmer. Researchers find it is often not paid. The research on gold found it benefited Canada, not poor countries.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Yes: Read my paper, Ethical Objections to Fairtrade in the Journal of Business Ethics, and the papers I cite in it.

[@griffithsspeaker]

You said "What about when that extra money that consumers pay goes not only to a calculable increase in farmers pay ..." What does this mean if not that they pay them more?

[@silverstall]

Our local auithority is telling us that to be part of the new fairtrade online retail directory all we have to do is complete a survey and our website will appear in .gov tourism websites. We operate a jewellery business and cannot find one shred of evidence that any of the extra premiums from "fairtrade certified gold" has ever gone to miners. Our competitors are gaining a commercial advantage through a scam that is not just hurting honest producers but honest retailers.

[@TheCellarat]

My main problem with F/T is it gives a company like Nestle a chance to wipe the slate clean. if satan started selling coffee and paid his fees he could get f/T cert which saddens me to my core. Surely when letting companies use there logo FTI should look into a companies track record and other bussiness practises?

[@24parachutes23]

What about palm oir sir?

[@griffithsspeaker]

Sorry, I have not worked on palm oil, but I have worked on coffee, for instance in many countries.

[@griffithsspeaker]

I was into organic farming long before you were born.

[@griffithsspeaker]

But they do have Fairtrade certification! It caused great offence to an enormous number of people, including me. How could Fairtrade give certification to Nestle when the Deputy Director of the World Health Organization, an African, asks them 'Why are you killing our children?"

[@TheCellarat]

If you have a blend of coffee i.e a coffee thats is not from a single source and is a recipe made up of say 4 origin coffees you can carry the F/T logo aslong as you meet two criteria. 1. you are unable to source F/T to complete the recipe (say you have 40% Skybury) 2. you state on your pack what % F/T is in your product. Then you can carry the logo. This was brought in 2001 because of the limited avilabilty of F/T robusta coffee which can make upto 40% of an espresso blend.

[@micah1754]

Hi Peter, do you still take this position on fair trade as it is today? We are studying it in my human rights course at university at the moment. I'm fairly new to the subject so am yet to form much of an opinion. Trade Aid is one of the most well known fair trade organisations where I live in New Zealand. They seem genuine in trying to create good change. Look forward to your response. Thank you

[@danielbennett7109]

He doesn’t cite any sources other than his own papers. That’s the same as saying I refer you to myself. Fairtrade is a highly respected organization and all of these claims that he’s making are either exaggerated or outright lies.

[@mohamedelyaouti2051]

@@danielbennett7109 fair trade is a scam. You seriously think that extra profit goes to better worker wages and conditions. Don't be naive.

[@MegaMar20]

who is the speaker? i am interested in more transparency in fairtrade movement. i do not trust fairtrade at company or country level. Anything short of government run fairtrade certification will just mean the system will be distorted.

[@sayedshah5484]

Very very very good I am working for poor community with all solar thermal instrument

[@TheCellarat]

The facts are the growers that benfit most from fair trade are Mexico, peru and colombia which are all middle income contries this is because of the costs involved with becoming f/t cert combine this with the lack of transparency around how big a cut is taken by everyone in the chain and saleries of people on the fair trade payroll.

[@toterrachin]

Whooops typo, I meant it does not deserve a solution not a scenario.

[@griffithsspeaker]

The editors and referees of the Journal of Business Ethics saw a version which had not page citations, but full quotes, so they could check that I was not misrepresenting. Is Hyprpandas suggesting that they were part of a wicked plot to fake the evidence?

[@TheCellarat]

you have demnstrated that you have read the information supplied to you by Fairtrade's website. If you feel thats enough to warrant buying fair trade products then great buy fairtrade products. I am simply expressing my opinion based on my experiences in the coffee trade as is the man in this video. Do you still have the contact details of the producers you got in touch with as I am always looking for more direct green bean supplies many thanks.

[@bosshoggett]

Doing a study of fair trade and have just finished his "ethical objections to fair trade" published 19 July 2011.. and all i can say is wow.. It really challenged my belief structure. Not that i was Pro Fair Trade to begin with as I couldn't understand how a parallel market was more efficient or profitable, that the convention, Nor could i grasp why so many researchers never bothered to address the futures markets as a means of financial assurance or who or what the 'exploiters' are. As a result we seem to be swallowing collectivism more and more considering the collapse of Communism in 91. Its never been stronger in social ranks, with language policing (political correctness) identity politics and equality but its morphing back to financial and economics covertly under the guise of fair trade and egalitarianism. In the same way Carbon Trading commodifies CO2 and threatens industrial production by capping emissions. Or wealth redistribution via environmental controls. As long as the what I call 'feelgoodism' exists marketers will sell it at a premium, and that will encourage more of it.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Thank you for the first two sentences. I do not agree with any of your political or economic conclusions. This is old fashioned robber capitalism. Big business cons good, generous, people into giving money, in the belief that it goes to help the poor. They pocket the money and virtually nothing reaches the poor. Which is criminal in most countries.

[@griffithsspeaker]

I have published an analysis of claims about the impact of Fairtrade on farmers in the Journal of International Economics (Comment on ...) It is on my web site

[@TheCellarat]

The website you refer to is for end users and covers F/T international 'Guide Lines' with no defintion of terms like 'standard espresso coffee'. The fact of the matter is all evidence you can supply comes from a single source the company your surpporting own website!

[@TheCellarat]

A f/t logo can be carried on the package of any blended coffee with 20% fair trade beans as long as the other 80% can not be soucred through the fair trade setup which is around 95% of the coffee on the market . Also the 20% fair trade content can be referenced to as 100% fairtrade certified. but the this is not really the point f/t will not be taken serously by anyone until they publish what they pay the growers, exporters, inporters and most importantly themselfs!

[@toterrachin]

Our job with this scenario is to promote the company. Do you think this scenario is "worthy" of a solution?

[@NightDawnDusk]

Fact is normal trade should be reversed in output We should get the lesser share and them more if we really want to speed their development

[@griffithsspeaker]

Fairtrade is marketed by exactly the same multinationals as other coffee, the same importers, the same packers, the same distributors, the same supermarkets, the same café chains etc. The only difference is that these companies often buy from cooperatives, while Fairtrade (but not Fair Trade USA) insists that all Fairtrade must be bought from cooperatives.

[@LittleMissSparkley]

You say that FairTrade has no way of monitoring prices that the producers at the bottom level receive - but isn't there still some level of security in that with regards to the minimum price rule?

[@griffithsspeaker]

+Hannah f No. The farmers are not guaranteed a price. Nor do they get any of the Fairtrade premium as part of their price. It is forbidden by Fairtrade International. Nor is there any guarantee that the minimum price or premium is, in fact, paid. The audits do not cover this - see Fairtrade International. It would be impossible to check this in three months audit, let alone the few hours they have available. de Janvry, A., C. McIntosh and E. Sadoulet (2010) Fair Trade and Free Entry:The Dissipation of Producer Benefits in a Disequilibrium Market did the immensely complex, difficult and expensive analysis for 300 Fairtrade cooperatives, and found that much or most of the Fairtrade premium, and the extra for minimum price was being stolen by the importers from the rich countries. E-mail me at [e-mail] for a copy.

[@LittleMissSparkley]

+Peter Griffiths Thank you for your reply. Who is the minimum price intended for? What alternatives would you recommend to buyers who want to be confident that the products they buy are as equitable as possible? Of course, I know that it is not always possible to audit every level and be completely sure, but are there currently any alternatives which offer a better chance that farmers are treated fairly? Surely Fair Trade is still a more sure way to at least have a better chance of fairness than other suppliers, who don't represent any standardised form of assurance or monitoring?

[@griffithsspeaker]

+Hannah f The minimum price is meant to go to the exporter NOT the farmer according to Fairtrade International. The evidence is that much is stolen by the importer. We have had a hundred years of helping farmers in poor countries: we have a very good idea of what works and what does not. My colleagues and I have achieved a lot. I started working in Africa on this in 1962. If I had achieved as little as Fairtrade claims to have done, I would shoot myself. And if I had only done as little as they actually did . . .!!!!!!!!!!

[@LittleMissSparkley]

+Peter Griffiths Ok. But how do we know when buying products what process it has been through? What companies are using your model which gives more money to the farmers? Without a standarised or monitered system, how are we, as consumers, to make the most informed decision as possible about buying fair products? If we do want something with really helps the poorest people, how can we go about buying those products? This isn't an attack on you, they are genuine questions about how to practically monitor these systems and buy responsibly.

[@griffithsspeaker]

+Hannah f . I suggest you do a MSc in Agricultural Economics, followed by some years working in the field. What you want is impossible. Trying to create it creates a system wide open to crooks - like Fairtrade. Who will monitor the monitors? Remember Agricultural Economics is one of the oldest sciences: there have been sophisticated production, storage and marketing systems for 6000 years at least. There is an immense amount of experience and research. Your off-the-cuff solutions have been thought of, tried, discarded, many times.

[@LadyZoe13]

So is he saying that fair trade is good theoretically, but right now it's not working the way it's supposed to because the companies that sell fair trade products are ripping the farmers off intentionally? I'm not sure I understood.

[@griffithsspeaker]

@Hyperpandas No, I did not say fraud, though it might be that in your country. I said it was the criminal offence of Unfair Trading. If you get the 27 countries of the EC to change their legislation on this, it may be worth continuing the discussion.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Can you produce evidence of how much EXTRA is paid by generous consumers for Fairtrade in the belief that they are helping farmers? Then how much is pocketed by businesses in the rich countries? Then what happens to the rest? The fact is that the money would have a vastly greater impact (sometimes fifty times greater) if the extra money went to a real charity.

[@TheCellarat]

i don't know about ice cream only coffee and a blend of coffee is a composite product made up of coffee from varous orgins. So if you select coffee from an orgin that does not have f/t cert then you can include it in the blend and still use the logo. But this is all a side issues the real issue is growers not get a fair cut of the premium charged for the finished products and the certification costs of £1500! per year.

[@ItchyKneeSon]

And, once again, it boils down to the love of money, greeeeeed. Everyone should spend 6 months observing the Japanese work ethic, in my opinion. (I wasn't able to keep up; I quit my job at a 'traditional' Japanese company after 10 months.)

[@TheCellarat]

How much has it raised incomes for farmers? I know for a fact it has raised incomes for Nestle since Kit Kat's have been F/T by around 8% in the EU. If you want to buy coffee that gives growers a fair deal go to one of the many smaller companies who buy direct from the growers and pay more than the F/T price. How can a blended coffee that has 15% F/T beans still be allowed to carry a logo that stands for fair and balanced trade. Also just for fun try and find out Harriet Lambs salary.

[@francesxiao4544]

Can you give me some example of the negative impact of fair trade having on developing country? (⊙_⊙?)

[@r4sh343]

this is so depressing, it seems there is no solutions

[@griffithsspeaker]

BUT the vast majority comes from South and Central America, indicating that the Africans get virtually nothing from it. For example one Tanzanian cooperative was selling just 8% of its output as Fairtrade - not enough to cover the costs of joining Fairtrade. Its members were worse off. And in Peru, for example, the minimum wage for agricultural labourers is something most African farmers can only dream of, the salary of a graduate professional in Ghana, for instance.

[@griffithsspeaker]

@Hyperpandas Just for a start, firms in rich countries pocket tens of millions that the customers think that they are giving to farmers in the Third World. If that money hit the Third World, it would save a lot of lives.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Hyperpandas lies when he says neither I nor my sources have done any primary research. I cite some 83 people who have done field research, in uncomfortable, difficult and sometimes dangerous situations. I have worked on agricultural marketing in 35 countries.

[@TheCellarat]

When you talk to importers, roasters and end user suppliers who trade in F/T most are of the opinion that F/T certifcation is just not the right way to go in order to get a better deal for growers its as simple as that.

[@TheCellarat]

That is simple not true! If an origin in a blend can not be soucred via f/t then you can still use the logo if your are soucring as much as you possibly can via the F/T network. It clearly says this on the F/T website under FAQ. Take a Kitkat for expamle Coca solids make up 0.25% of the total bar weight but the whole bar carries the F/T logo.

[@TheCellarat]

Blended coffee is a composite product F/T website site says composite products that have 20% of their dry weight certifed can carry the logo, 5% of weight is lost during roasting so a composite coffee product can have 15% certifed and still carry the logo. Really its you pro fair traders that need to back up their assertions and prove the coffee you buy is fairer than the coffee I buy and thats the rub.

[@griffithsspeaker]

In Britain, our police chief has told a parliamentary committee that it has never investigated or tried to control sex trafficing. In Britain, successive Home Secretaries and police chiefs have admitted that most women do not report rape because of a justified fear of how the police will treat them, that a sexist police force seldom investigates reports, marking the file 'no crime', that there are very seldom any prosecutions, and that the success rate of prosecutions is abysmal.

[@TheCellarat]

big companys need to pay more for their raw materials and charge less for their finished products but this would effect their profits. So a company was set up to 'regulate the price paid to growers' so the cost could be passed on to the consumers. Do you think a company like Nestle would do anything thats not in their intrests? Nestle Nestle i put that twice because its so shocking to me that nestle are ft cert. nestle the guys that brought powder milk to Africa and palm oil to chocolate!

[@griffithsspeaker]

Can you produce (with references) claims by Fairtrade that it pays more to FARMERS for the same quality coffee? Can you produce any hard evidence that it does so in fact? Fairtrade standards do not in fact envisage that any of the money gets to the farmer, and there is a lot of evidence that it does not. See my Journal of Business Ethics paper

[@haydenkiwi]

Did you know one of the biggest dairy farming companies in the world is a co-operative? It is owned by over 10,000 New Zealand Famers and produces approximately 30% of milk based products on the international market. Also I would use caution when using terminology like third world or developing countries as it over simplifies the situation, through the creation problematic binaries that do not exist in everyday life.

[@chanyeols6thstewardessgirl684]

How is fair trade has had an impact on workers?

[@griffithsspeaker]

Fairtrade is not designed to affect workers, and its standards do not claim to do this. Research shows that they are pretty badly treated.See the very thorough £1,000,000 study: Cramer, C., D. Johnston, B. Mueller, C. Oya and J. Sender (2014a) ‘How to Do (and How Not To Do) Fieldwork on Fair Trade and Rural Poverty’, Canadian Journal of Development Studies 35(1), 170-85. Cramer, C., D. Johnston, C. Oya and J. Sender (2014b) Fairtrade, Employment and Poverty Reduction in Ethiopia and Uganda. London: SOAS. London University

[@TheCellarat]

also What about a starbucks cappuccino is that 100% F/T? yes the coffee is but they pay 4p under the cost of product for their milk which is 80% of the drink! Its the TERM Fair trade i have a problem with If it was called artificially raised market price coffee then i would not have a problem with it.

[@eventsotherthingswithchris9019]

If someone were to be a literalist, the term "Fair Trade" is a misnomer. How so? Is there really trading for a product? No, because if its cash based, anyone knows that paper currency in any form basically has no value except what someone designates to that currency to be "worth" something. Even in places that may not involve a 3rd world country, how does one determine "value" of a product accurately? Say for instance, someone has a field that is X feet by X feet & that person decides to break up the field into sections to grow whatever product their selling, or, decides only to grow 1 specific product, they have to either have some kind of mechanical equipment or, going back to a 3rd world country, maybe an animal based tech / equipment to not only set up your field, but once you get it set up, implement water, possible insecticide, & other things to help you produce crop. In either case, machinery costs money to not only buy but maintain & for animal based tech, like we'll say a team of oxen & a plow, you need to maintain those animals, plus I'd assume buy them if you didn't have any to assist you in the process of growing whatever product (s) your growing. Lets look at labor cost. If someone within the USA hires in someone to do physical labor, unless that person is using illegal labor, they're paying out what one would hope is "minimum wage" or maybe a few cents more per hour to do the actual work involved, right? This is something beyond yieldthat's going to effect the finaloutcomeof what a farmer actually gets to pocket for themselves, right? So, what IS "fair" using things like labor, the potential of bad weather conditions that are not only going to effect your yield for crops, but possibly your labor force if you have any, or, if you're using machinery or animal based tech to harvest or keep on top of a situation, what IS fair? I do like some of the models I see some local farmers using which one can purchase a "share" of the produce & pay out X amount in order to get X amount which the Farmer dictates contractually, but I wonder sometimes is the X amount really a fair price for what one may get, especially given labor & any other costs going into the produce being yielded. The guy here also never addressed Governmental involvement in some farmer's life dictating to them what they "can" & "can't" grow & if anyone knows anything about that, it in itself raises a question of "Fairness".

[@griffithsspeaker]

My claims are substantiated: they are based on a large body of research throughout the world. I challenge you to produce properly referenced (a) claims by Fairtrade that in general Fairtrade FARMERS are paid more for the same quality coffee and (b) hard evidence to prove it. When you collect money for charity you have to be able to prove you have not pocketed the money. Fairtrade sellers do not even try.

[@griffithsspeaker]

I have assembled a lot of evidence from research around the world (60+ studies) showing that people pay a lot more for Fairtrade, but little or none of this reaches the farmers. It is a criminal offence throughout Europe not to tell customers how much of the extra they pay reaches the farmers - without waiting for them to ask. It is a criminal offence to hide this information so effectively that they cannot find it even when they search or ask for it.

[@TheCellarat]

You have your views and thats cool and if buying fair trade makes you feel all warm inside then fine its your money. But if you really wanted to help growers you should buy your products from smaller local producers in this country. They don't have the negotiation power of a multibillion pound company and end up paying over the fairtrade price to growers to secure their raw materials.

[@silverstall]

Gold or silver ore alone is useless to jewellers. It has to be refined with all its impurites removed. By sub-clause 7.2.4. of the fairtrade and fairmined standard 2010 "... refiners and manufacturers will be exempt from physical traceability requirements." In other words there is no enforceable method of checking the gold given to a refining plant comes back the same gold. So long as purity levels meet hallmarks, the refined fairtrade gold you buy could have been mined by children on Mars.

[@griffithsspeaker]

@Hyperpandas There have always been firms in rich countries aiming to make as much as possible from the Third World, however many people they kill. And there have always been individuals justifying this on political, religious, economic, or straight racist grounds. Which is Hyperpandas, I wonder?

[@griffithsspeaker]

They do not prosecute the criminal bankers etc. who collapsed our economies, or the millionaires who fiddle their taxes either. Why? For the same reason: our governments do not do anything that stops big business making money out of the rest of us, legally or illegally

[@griffithsspeaker]

I was asked about what the Fairtrade representative said on video. Fairtrade websites and all the evidence confirm that he was lying about the money reaching the farmer at farmgate. Beyond any question. And Hyperpandas lies when he says that none of my sources have done any primary research. We are talking of some 20 years research in the field.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Perhaps they have a conscience, and do not want to rip off the Third World. You tell me.

[@eaitken1489]

I quite disagree my school have taught me lots about fair trade and even seen proof of people's lives being changed we have gave over two hundred pounds and I think it definitely makes a difference.

[@griffithsspeaker]

+Cookie Cook Joking aside: No school teacher knows the first thing about agricultural marketing in the Third World. No teacher has the time to read the research literature on Fairtrade. There is zero research on the impact which meets even the most basic standards for impact analysis. So teachers get their information from the advertising by the businesses who make money out of it. Your teachers were conned into cheating you out of two hundred pounds. Read my paper.

[@griffithsspeaker]

@Hyperpandas Hyperpandas asks how the panel went. As the video shows, the Fairtrade executive lied. The others, from real ethical organizations, disassociated themselves from Fairtrade and its system. Afterwards many thanked me for raising the issues: they are trying to do the job properly and are being attacked by Fairtrade

[@griffithsspeaker]

Certainly not! A badly designed system plus massive criminality means very little of the extra that you pay reaches the farmer - it is pocketed by firms in rich countries. Extra costs imposed on the cooperatives and farmers means farmers are paid less for their coffee. See my papers, esp Ethical Objections to Fairtrade (Journal of Business Ethics) for the evidence

[@griffithsspeaker]

No they do not give certification to Nestle. They SELL the right to use their logo.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Look at my paper: it quotes a large amount of research by a lot of people, more than 60 papers. He is not an expert in export and purchasing: he is an expert in marketing in rich countries. On the other hand I am an expert in marketing agricultural produce in the Third World, among other things. Both my qualifications and my track record are hard to beat. Why not check my web site? Why is he saying something that all the researchers, all the Fairtrade web sites, say is wrong? You tell me

[@griffithsspeaker]

I have published an analysis in Ethics and Education showing that British schools use unethical, high pressure marketing techniques to get their pupils to support Fairtrade, a highly profitable brand. And they give them a lot of false information. Down load at www.griffithsspeaker.com/Fairtrade/why_fair_trade_isn.htm. Griffiths, P., 2014. Fairtrade in Schools: teaching ethics or unlawful marketing to the defenceless?. Ethics and Education, DOI:, 9(3) DOI 10.1080/17449642.2014.978122, pp. 369-384.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Gryffin Claw Thank you. Could you pass on the paper on Fairtrade in schools, or the link to it to anyone you know in education? That is really the way to get action.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Buy what is cheapest, and give the money to a REPUTABLE charity where the money really goes to the Third World. The latest research shows that even more of the Fairtrade money is pocketed by big business than we thought. Widespread corruption within the Fairtrade industry, with the "audit" turning a blind eye to it.

[@griffithsspeaker]

The Deputy Director of WHO asked Nestle, on UK television, "Why are you killing our children". At the same time the Fairtrade organization was selling Nestle the right to use its brand on one of its products. This caused outrage among Fairtrade supporters and others who think it is wrong to kill children, however profitable it may be. Google Fairtrade AND Nestle.

[@griffithsspeaker]

The research shows that Fairtrade organic seriously reduced the income of Fairtrade farmers, See Griffiths, Ethical Objections to Fairtrade for the references (google: I cannot put the link here). Badly designed, half-baked projects, yet again, harm vulnerable Third World farmers. Yes, I know it is profitable for British companies, but that does not justify it.

[@griffithsspeaker]

A tiny proportion of the extra money you pay reaches the Third World, most being pocketed by firms etc, so you would have perhaps 50 times the impact if you gave to a reputable charity which sends the money to the Third World, and concentrates on these issues. And there are no valid impact studies of Fairtrade. Fairtrade does not aim to pay farmers a higher price for the same quality - read the standards - and there is no evidence that they do. Research shows they may be paying less.

[@griffithsspeaker]

To continue Hyperpandas chooses to ignore all facts and to live in his own fantasy world where Mr Plod the Policeman arrests all naughty men and puts them in jail

[@Cleurs]

Something is better than nothing. at least their givimg 2% and other companies dont give anything.

[@griffithsspeaker]

If you give your money to a reputable charity, you will have a hundred times the impact. Fairtrade is mainstream capitalism.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Where but Google do you find the outrage of people who were shocked at Fairtrade organizations making their money that way? The Fairtrade organizations do not publicize these criticisms or any others.

[@TheCellarat]

firstly all your research is from one place FTI website secondly if all what you say is true why is an expert in export and purchasing saying something totally different and why are you watching and commenting on a video of him saying it? More importantly I totally agree with the idea of f/t but think its the corprate gaints i.e nestle that should be foot the bill and paying the extra cost of regulation not the grower and not the end user.

[@griffithsspeaker]

@TheGabstar3 Look at the facts. See 'Ethical Objections to Fairtrade' which brings together the hard evidence of researchers around the world. And no they do not give 2%. They just pocket money, cheating the consumer and the farmers in the Third world.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Sorry, but I have had to close this discussion. There has been a lot of personal abuse by people who have not bothered to read the facts referenced. There is also a lot of spam by a small group of people pushing Fairtrade who have not read the facts,or who deliberately ignore them. They try to divert the argument away from the main point - that a tiny part of the extra money paid by generous consumers reaches the farmer. And they are not above misstating the facts in doing so,

[@griffithsspeaker]

I have had a long career in the Third World. I have a track record of doubling or quadrupling the net cash income of milions upon millions of Third World farmers.I have prevented famines (see my book). All at a minimal cost. And I am a top expert in agricultural marketing economics. John London suggests that you should prefer to believe masters students' research solely on the grounds that they have actually stepped on a Third World farm. Big deal!

[@josephholdman1037]

?

[@griffithsspeaker]

So Hyperpandas claims to live in the only rich country that has no sex trade using trafficked or forced women. Another example of his desire to turn a blind eye to crime and evil.

[@griffithsspeaker]

Come off it. When did our government last prosecute our large supermarket chains for anything, let alone something they make as much money out of as Fairtrade? Sainsbury for instance gave the Labour Party so much that they made one of the owners a cabinet minister!

[@griffithsspeaker]

There is ZERO evidence that fairtrade has done anything to raise incomes for farmers. And a lot to say that money that should go to them does not.

[@griffithsspeaker]

So... you're suggesting that because governments of rich countries won't prosecute people trafficing women for sex - which they could easily stamp out - rape and slavery are virtuous; that because they will not implement Trade Justice, it is virtuous to make the poor countries even poorer?

[@griffithsspeaker]

No. I was supporting organic farming before you were born. And anybody speaking at an international conference on coffee speaks in front of the logos of the sponsors. I did, so did the Fairtrade, Coffee Kids, Rainforest Alliance, Uzi speakers. Grow up.

[@griffithsspeaker]

None of these are sources for the outrage caused by Fairtrade's decision to sell the right to use the Fairtrade logo on a Nestle product: you have to use the internet. My papers make full use of years of serious research carried out by professionals working in the field. And I have vastly more field experience than you will ever get. Try not to be a bigger fool than the Lord God made you.

[@TheCellarat]

your totally missing the point consumers are not as well informed as you or i so they see fair trade kit kats and assume the product is fair trade and its not! Nestle did it for the free advertising and to help absolve past sins.

[@griffithsspeaker]

No. The system is very badly designed. It cannot achieve what its founders wanted. So firms in rich countries make vast profits, while very little reaches farmers. See Ethical Objections to Fairtrade on my website