fake kiss scenes and straightwashing in bl

[@charlienoii]

Kim Jiwoong being the man he is mentioning that he was an actor for 2 bls while on a variety show nobody does it like him

[@narnia_eclipse389]

honestly I count Boys Planet as his 3rd BL, it was sooooo fruity XD

[@txtand1dbruv]

@@narnia_eclipse389 fr😭😭😭

[@charlienoii]

@@narnia_eclipse389 and 4th BL is ZB1 CUZ WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THEM ACTING AND SERVING LIKE THAT?? 😭

[@ngasalaja2839]

​@@charlienoiiare we complaining? 😂😂😂

[@Furrina89]

He went from acting​ in bl to living the bl life hehehe @@charlienoii

[@juicyjasmin505]

1. Stop hiring Idols for BLs 2. Stop forcing BL onto actors. If they didn't audition for the role, don't make them play it. 3. If you don't want to portray a Queer couple on screen, then don't create the story

[@universeofopulence]

...i think it's more of "enticing" the actors and not necessarily forcing them, as the production houses as well as actors also want an easy route to fame and money, nothing wrong with that, it just leaves the audience with disappointment and a bad taste 😔

[@juicyjasmin505]

@universeofopulence So yes I do mean "force" but also convince, coerce, suggest, nudge, steer, direct, entice and/or persuade an actor to take on roles they didn't initially set out to play. Trying to get famous fast isn't wrong, but in these cases where we can see that your work is lacking and suffering then it is wrong. Like the video states, why not just hire those who want to do it? Well it's cuz It's about $$$$ and not about quality for most of these companies. But then again some viewers love vanilla, wholesome NOT GAY BLs🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤔😕

[@percyjkss]

But all the actors that played bls characters, wanted it .. tf are you even saying ? Before say bullshits, make your searches.

[@juicyjasmin505]

@percyjkss I can promise, no they did not. But u can believe what u want. This conversation is obviously not for u

[@i.t.s.s.i.l.v.e.r]

most idols do kissing scene tho, just like semantic error for the example. idk what's going on with omega x, their first drama doesnt have any kiss scene was understandable since both are in the same group so they wont be awkward in reality (tho they can just hire other actors)

[@zeskiyo]

Jazz for Two honestly made me double check the calendar to see if we were suddenly back to the early days of (in this case Thai) BL where intimacy would be either some angle kiss or physical abuse misconstrued as "love". Truly a pity.

[@vxnus8909]

this is so real..😭 I did still like the series though

[@dahliaisaflower]

Thank you because all the people praising it like it's so good it's like the best so far. I'm like it was a intriguing plot so I wanted to finish it but that's all I'm giving it. The amount of abuse & assault they brushed off. Can we please stop glorifying abuse especially in a normal drama setting. Like if it's Mafia or something I'll be like no but okay nearly all the things they are doing are illegal and know and comprehended as morally wrong. but this is supposed to be high school, a teen drama. Literally romanticizing that if the person abuses you they probably like you so just get over it until they stop and they'll love you back or are okay with it. I thought we were getting better at that. Enemies to lovers yes. Bully to lover no. Because you can put abuse in a drama, but it needs to be obviously known that it's not right and acknowledged as that which is what KP does. Doesn't glorify it or anything. Put the fact that they just brushed it off and ignored it every time like it was justified or valid.

[@YourLukie]

Spillt facts ! Truly, I hoped those days of glorifying abuse and interpreting it as "misunderstood love" were over, but sometimes seems it's too difficult to write a proper series.

[@Maestro_Wonu]

I actually hated the entire series, it was so toxic

[@dahliaisaflower]

@@margaretritaigba9818 novel series drama it's still brushing over the fact that it was literal abuse and bullying and it was brushed aside saying love. It's really simple the negative review. would you like someone attacking you, assaulting you, and bullying you because they don't know how to use their words to say they don't want you to do something & thinking they have to say to stop you from doing something that has nothing to do with them with physical assault. then saying I love you & brushing it off like it's normal. Like it's valid and okay because they love you now.

[@jka1165]

Jiwoong (ZB1) and Jaechan (DKZ) being proud of their BL projects is just so awesome. Not to mention that both Jaechan and Seoham convince the crew that there should be a kiss despite not really necessary in the script. Kings FR

[@Spy_d33]

This is why semantic error and kissable lips were the only bl series’s that I would willingly watch again and again

[@sammylamsu5178]

Just hearing about straightwashing pisses me off. Hope it flops or the author pulls out! Please support STRONGBERRY! They make good kbls and arent sellouts to straight washing. Also support Red Q and SOO not Sue for good kgl content

[@cahidijoyoraharjo7833]

I got so angry when I watched a Thai show which being called a BL series, even though there was only 2 SIDE gay couple in it. While the rest and the main couple is straight. "This isn't BL!" I screamed at my computer screen.

[@relatableusername]

​@@cahidijoyoraharjo7833which one is it?

[@cahidijoyoraharjo7833]

@@relatableusername The Warp Effect.

[@relatableusername]

@@cahidijoyoraharjo7833 but, The Warp Effect was never advertised as a BL...right? Like, I never saw it being described as one, that's why I didn't think it was that one.

[@blueblurcrow]

@@relatableusername I actually came to know about warp effect by searching for bl thais on the internet; just from my experience though. but the point is if the side couple of a bl series is straight then can it be called a straight love series? idk whats up with thai and their way to label something as a bl when it's not.

[@Mi_9538]

Thankkuuu for mentioning Bright and Win. The number of people who believe they genuinely care for the queer community is astonishing.

[@veritush]

i still see people who continue to ship them and say they are together. maximum delusion for real. the dudes did *one* BL together and fans can't let it go

[@Gummeyy]

@@veritush BL stans has always been crazy since day 1

[@Invisbletoyou.]

Nah deadass though

[@shamkand]

BL has nothing to do with LGBTQ+ community.... it's a different genre and their main target audience are straight girls.

[@sukqzi]

Considering Win did recently come out as Bi or Unlabeled saying he doesn't care if he dates a man or woman I think he might care but bright on the other hand maybe not so much

[@bluishblow]

i hate when we complain about fake kiss scenes and someone mocks saying things like "kiss inspector" or "expecting nc scenes" because it's exactly about intimacy kieta hatsukoi doesn't have one single kiss scene, but it wasn't on the script and they made me believe in their chemistry even so but when the kiss has a narrative purpose is so frustrating because it somewhat implies that this kind of intimacy shouldn't be represented and they just hint at it

[@pushumonster]

Wait... They didn't have a kiss in Kieta Hatsukoi ? Did they just hug in the end ? If it's the case I'm shook because I watched it 3 times Edit : I checked and you were right X) It just made sense for those characters so I didn't even notice

[@queenofbeinghungryaf1025]

Right but what i like about fluffy romance shows like Kieta Hatsukoi is that there are different signs of intimacy that cannot be mistaken for friendship. It shows that intimacy from queer characters can be cutesy,lovely,vanilla and romantic without the sexual aspect. They still find ways to show their romance and have intimate moments. It made especially a lot of sense for their characters who were quite shy and repressed and the setting in highschool of teenagers coming to terms with their same sex attraction.

[@fatimamalik2442]

Exactly kieta hatsukoi had absolutely no vulgar scenes and it focused purely on romance and fluff scenes but people still liked it even without the sexual stuff why?because they had a clear vision for what they were doing its not like they were trying to heterofy it and ignore the queerness instead they were accepting it in a positive way without toxicity and homophobia

[@kristin123a]

Or even Stay With Me. The tension was so high all the time and a few scenes sort of suggested that the guys were actually intimate “off screen”. It was fine. Fake kiss or dead lips is the worst. Just don’t do it and write the show in a way where it makes sense then.

[@stannctorbeasquare]

I hate that it's like one step forward and three steps back. We are finally getting more series but then it's either not written well or straightwashed/bromance. It's quite frustrating.

[@Ugottabejoking]

This is the major issue with the korean industry. Not just with this series, there are many series that lack chemistry in main leads, which shows how much homophobic they can be.

[@muciSAD]

the majority of straight pairings in kdramas lack chemistry too.

[@Ugottabejoking]

@@muciSAD that's true

[@QueenHela240]

Well even in some straight Kdramas fake kisses happen. It's mostly on the actors not being comfortable than writers and directors.

[@Ugottabejoking]

@QueenHela240 This is the reason I stopped watching k-drama's.

[@QueenHela240]

@@Ugottabejoking I don't watch any romance drama anymore from any country unless it's BL. Got bored with all same old stuff. I watch thriller dramas most of the time.

[@bingybongy007]

honestly they need to pick its either we get good and real kissing scenes (even if they are just fish lips lol) or no kissing scenes at ALL like in “a should to cry on” because personally i don’t just watch BLs just to watch their kissing scenes or nc scenes. i watch for the plot, chemistry, acting etc. too so i don’t mind/care if there are no kiss scenes BUT faking the kiss scenes just feels like “bro be fr” and its just awkward in general to see it like especially the angles shot are so awkward 😭

[@byulsarang]

EXACTLY either commit to it or don’t do it at all. romance can be conveyed through other ways 😭😭 fake kiss scenes just take me out of the show

it's okay not wanting characters to kiss, but when you're in a relationship, you kiss. let people be hornknee😂

[@kechiotta5349]

Thats one of the reasons i like Japanese bl. The intimacy, the love, the tension between the characters is portrayed lovingly even without a kiss scene. But in majority of korean bl, its through bullying and some weird angle kissing.

[@muciSAD]

Japanese BLs are just so good. They're deeper and more mature, even the high school ones like Kieta Hatsukoi. But there are some that have intense kissing and even sex scenes as well. Like The writer (pornographer).

[@kechiotta5349]

@@muciSAD you're absolutely Right. Japanese BLs give off some vibes different from other countries. From high school, mature, work, family and so on. Many themes are always touched in their BLs.

[@florencerb1735]

You also have many idols from famous boy bands in Japanese BL who have no problem filming kisses or intimate scenes. And I also like that established actors act in BL roles (even explicit ones like The Pornographer) among other projects. It's not like BL is used as a stepping stone or cash grab like it can be in other countries.

[@luciba]

Can u recommend me some jbl series??

[@florencerb1735]

@@luciba There are lots of choices, it all depends on what you prefer. Starting with the high school ones: My love mix up Kimi ni wa Todokanai. Kimi no Koto Dake Mite Itai Kimi to Nara Koi wo Shite Mite mo Sahara Sensei to Toki-kun Takara-kun to Amagi-kun His - Koisuru Tsumori Nante Nakatta Moving on to adult characters: Cherry Magic Our dining table (probably the sweetest BL ever created) Old fashioned cupcake Ossan's Love I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama Life: Senjou no Bokura Perfect Propose Shigatsu no Tokyo wa... Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro ka Koi wo Suru nara Nidome ga Joto Darker or more mature BLs: Utsukushii Kare Pornographer / Mood Indigo Bokura no Micro na Shuumatsu Taikan Yoho

[@fruity8607]

Highschool return of a gangster is also a great example. The MDL comment section was a warzone when they removed the bl part because it "wouldn't make money". In SK but also Thailand, more "mainstream" celebrities and actors are entering the BL genre recently (for one project or more). I can't help but compare. A seasoned actor like Jes (Bible's new partner in 4 minutes) signed with BOC, which means he is commiting to portraying a high level of intimacy and physicality (based on their history). But SK seems to think that a more well known cast (like in HROG) means needing to be more "marketable" to mainstream audience and so, let's make queer stories less/not queer. I really hope it doesn't become the start of a trend for the latter.

[@0912sooli]

They been doing bromances hiding actual gay plotlines for years...SK thrives on queerbait

[@irenegwendolyne8525]

It can only become a trend if BL fans allowed it to be. We have to boycott those series whenever they present nonsense like that to us

[@SleepIntoTheDiamondLife]

they didn't remove the bl part. the og story is a bl and they completely transformed the story into a cis het story, while "maintaining the essence of the original story". it's straight up disrespectful because clearly the showmakers want bl lovers to watch it too. like they want to have the cake and eat it too.

[@xmoonblossom]

I wouldn't say they got the well known cast and because of that they wrote it into a straight story, but they got the cast because the story was written to a straight story. xd I think this little difference is important.

[@confusedbunny-of1ye]

Sorry, but what is HROG?

[@66skate]

This is my biggest gripe. It just ruins the whole mood of the scene. If you can't kiss, go play a straight part in some other series.

[@kristin123a]

Or even tease it like Cherry Magic or something. Or end the last ep before the kiss.

[@Saniithepotato]

Or don't kiss and be like chinese bl series. They don't kiss.

[@daveg9474]

Totally agree with your comments. Elsewhere there was a debate about actors unwilling to work in intimate same sex scenes. If the actor is uncomfortable playing a role where this is called for, they should not sign up for it. Acting in a BL then moving on to other genres is fine but play the BL role as it should. Unconvincing DFKs in a BL is so obvious and can not just ruin the scene but spoil the entire story.

[@denisek7]

The great majority of Korean society is homophobic and anti lgbtq, hence the main reason they now make suddenly so many short bls is simply cashing in, they see easy money and quick fame for these young actors thats it! Jazz for two is a disgrace for the whole genre and I greatly dislike it, although I havent read the original source, which would be even more disappointing regarding the adaptation I guess... I have lived as a European for 7 years in Seoul (and I have studied academically about Korean society and culture for over a decade) so I base this statement on my own experiences and research~ THANK YOU very much for talking about this issue with a video, it is important to know and see that there are several problematic k bl dramas who use the "queer theme" only for their own (financial) gain and do not consider the actual audiences this show is supposed to be for :(

[@0912sooli]

well they defintely consider audience cause they make it for fujoshi fangirls and not for LGBT. But sometimes LGBT people like it too but they are not usually the target audience. Thats why I hate when there si toxic relationships in BL that are glorified

[@havensohn3821]

Is it true that older people are more homophobic? And is it true girls are more lgbt friendly than the men?

[@prismaticboy7531]

i did feel something was wrong with that kiss scene... but I didn't realize it was straight up completely faked. Honestly they could have done the scene with just an attempted kiss by Doyoon then Juha pushes him off before their lips connected and he continues with punching him. Like THERE. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER THAN A FAKE KISS. And it would have been in character and made sense with what was happening. If anything they should have saved the fake kiss for the hallway scene where Juha confesses to Doyoon but I would have been fine with what we got because it was so emotional and well acted I was crying when Juha fell to Doyoon's shoulder into a hug. gah now that I know it was fake it kinda leaves a sour taste when I rewatch that scene 😑

[@elizabethwilliamsf3682]

The shoulder fall was fake too ? Bloody hell, I feel like a fool

[@ranjini0497]

​@@elizabethwilliamsf3682who told you that shoulder fall was fake? Absolutely not

[@peelsies]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Bump Up Business! A BL featuring a whole group of idols (OnlyOneOf) with two of them being the main characters, where they actually kiss and are explicitly a romantic couple. Same group who had a whole series of songs about being gay with canon couples, who hold lgbt flags on stage every concert, and who are very vocally supportive of the LGBT.

[@bangchanscake]

i was looking for this comment

[@alsimanche]

As a gay guy, this is exactly why I don't really like watching bl especially asian bls (like Thai Japan or korea), it just feels like watching straight couple but instead of girl and a guy, it's a guy and a guy, i just don't feel like it's something that is made for me, Like seriously, if you can't give us great writing, then at least make your actor look like they're taking their job very seriously, everytime there's an intimate scene, i always feel like they're kinda holding back like i know they're probably straight and not into boys, but being actor is their job, they're supposed to make things look believable

[@ranjini0497]

You don't know everyone's sexuality BTW to declare them straight. Maybe it's the director who doesn't want those kind of scenes. So no point in blaming the actors and absolutely not right to talk about their sexuality

[@v2-ek2vl]

@@ranjini0497 english has left the chat dude clearly mentioned that he "probably" thinks they're straight, which isn't even wrong considering the percentage of queer ppl in contrast with the rest of the population

[@jungkookismyonlyalpha2813]

But semantic error had two idols and they kissed so it doesn't make sense

[@marliiien]

I think at this point it‘s more about finding actors who are comfortable portraying queer people. every idol can do it if they are willing to produce realistic intimicy and kisses for example. Semantic error is a great show to proof that but most idols and companies rather want to maintain an image that‘s not fitting for a bl actor (no kissing, no touching whatever yk)

[@sukqzi]

And Jiwoong an kpop idol had passionate kiss scenes with his partner so I don't understand why they say all idols do this when it's just them 😭

[@DaughterofMother1]

I didn't hear the commentator blame the idols or their company,it's the drama producer and director's job to cast the right actors who are willing to portray the required intimacy for the genre,a good director can easily film a kiss scene while making sure the actors feel comfortable too,if a director's BL drama projects homophobia......like a fake kiss scenes or bigotry in the plot,then the director is probably homophobic himself who just wants a quick buck from exploiting the genre

[@jungkookismyonlyalpha2813]

@@DaughterofMother1 I wasn't going against the commentator

[@agneteht]

A good reason in the context of korean culture would be that one is a highschool setting and they are "chaster" whereas semantic error is college hence raunchier environment. If you pay attention you will notice that this is a very determining in the level of intimacy portrayed often.

[@0912sooli]

I thought I was one of the few who think that for many actors(and also one of the reason why bl actors usually are so young) bl is short cut for fame and acting career...thats why I like that LFLS actors stated that they actually REALLY wanted to do bl

[@HARUKANAKAMURA18]

Really they said that?

[@HARUKANAKAMURA18]

I am so happy that taevin and joowan both wanted to do it ..plus their chemistry is way too good .

[@0912sooli]

@@HARUKANAKAMURA18 yep, knowing Taevin's choice of work he really wanted to do LGBT role + he was very particular with LFLS role and prepared diligently. Joowan answered question on ig live that his parents are supporting him since he always wanted to do BL.

[@HARUKANAKAMURA18]

@@0912sooli I am proud of them 🥰

[@Yunik_Nonny]

What's LFLS please?

[@pondphuw1n]

the best bltuber ever

[@byulsarang]

you’re the sweetest ever ❤️❤️❤️ ily

[@johnmaster3748]

It will be a sign of progress and social acceptance when straight and gay stories co-exist in the same series and no one bats an eye. Love is Science? (Taiwan, 2022) pulled it off. There are not many other examples. (Feel free to namecheck the ones y'all think i missed.) As it stands, queer romance tends to get segregated into this quirky side genre we call BL. One day the world just will see a rom-com and feel no need to Other it with a marker of difference like "oh that's a _gay_ romance com." In some ways, the ambition to produce a series with both a gay and straight plot line could be construed as forward progress. Instead of being shunted down a sidetrack, safe in its genre ghetto, the queer romance story in Heesu is being treated with the same fanfare given to straight romances. Especially, if the queer romance is primary in the overall big picture of the series. Of course, they have to pull it off, first. Skepticism, until we see the finished product, is warranted.

[@lakshyK]

Love is Science is an original script, the scriptwriters can do what they want. Heesu in Class 2 is adapted from a webtoon, so people expect the drama to be true to its source at least to some extent. I think it wouldn't have been a problem if the webtoon had a straight side couple and they made them a main couple in the drama. But, the straight couple in the drama does not exist in the webtoon, and it's not like they just added a side couple, they created a new main couple. It does beg the question, why?

[@johnmaster3748]

@@lakshyK That's all well and good. But "adapted for television" means the scriptwriters use source material as a springboard for a script that suits the purposes of their productions. But the source material is not a strait jacket. Some adaptations stick close to the source material. Some, do not. Any time and every time a person encounters a filmed version of a novel they love, the reader complains the novel has been disrespected. No. The filmed version is simply different. There is nothing new or revelatory in this discussion. The gap between source material and filmed versions has existed since film was invented--and so has the tradition of griping about deviations from the source novel.

[@lakshyK]

@@johnmaster3748 Deviating from the original source is fine, but imo, respecting the established roles (of who is main character and who is side character) and the relationships between the characters in the original is the least you have to do. If you want to make a drama that's different from the original source, why even adapt it? Just write a new script. (I know it's for money, but if your goal is to attract the original's fanbase then you have to respect the fan's wishes)

[@VixenByNight72]

​@lakshy4697 But attracting the novel audience isn't the main goal of the production companies that are creating these adaptions. They are aiming for a larger audience, some who have absolutely no idea that the series is based on a web novel and will not go out to try and read the novel before watching the series. Not every BL or GL series can or will ever be 100 percent faithful to the source material. I am an avid reader from my teen years, and I understand why many of these book to drama adaptions can't do it and don't attempt it.

[@dramaanalyst1745]

My main issue with Heesu in Class 2 adding a hetero couple is not that they added a couple but they added a HETERO couple in it, like with oversaturated Hetero industry I don't think we need more hetero couples. Like why are THEY there do they need to show representation to a hetero community??? I know they added them to pass the shows rating and making it more Youth, Romance drama since it will air on local TV as well but it's still annoying

[@evesanchez2157]

I’m sorta torn with this situation. While straightwashing upsets me, I think it’s also good to take a step forward by being inclusive of all gender relationships side-by-side in media and entertainment as representation of everyday life. If we want love to not be gender-defined, then we need to have more “blinded relationships” on screen. Folks who aren’t happy about it don’t have to watch. They don’t have to accept. But, they do need to respect. I believe the issue with Heesu in Class 2 is a big mistake. Why not just write a new series? The webtoon creator should not have agreed to this. I guess we don’t know what the contract agreements were. After all, it’s all about money at the end of the day, imho.

[@i.t.s.s.i.l.v.e.r]

​@@evesanchez2157 true, as a gay myself, im happy when there are hetero couples in bl drama. i want it to be included, the same goes for bl couples not excluded in hetero drama. i really want gay couples also considered as a "normal" couples and accepted by the community, no need to represent anything.

[@evesanchez2157]

@@i.t.s.s.i.l.v.e.r exactly. Everyone needs to be seen as individuals, valued for who they are, not who they love.

[@cahidijoyoraharjo7833]

I mean, I don't have a problem with watching some straight couples in a BL show. As long as those couples are SIDE couples. Like how some straight shows included a SIDE gay couple in them. I'm only salty when they make it like the straight couples were somehow the main topic of the show, but they're calling it BL.

[@dramaanalyst1745]

@@i.t.s.s.i.l.v.e.r the thing is for that to happen first both hetero and gay couples should have equal level of respect and right, and we are far from that. The new norm would only work when both couples are seen at the same level but we are not even close to that queer couples are still seen out of norm, and plus the comparison to hetero dramas from queer content is laughable by how low that is, we queer community is always ignored and neglected throughout the years so you can't expect the new norm to suddenly happen in a East Asian countries or any countries in general when one community is oppressed and is still oppressed.

[@ThankYouForTheContent]

Mill and Nine from BG OnlyOneOf were the main leads in BL Bump Up Business, with all members of the group appearing, and they did share a kissing scene. They know each other well, but that can be also nerve-wracking, depending on the person. However, if the issue in other cases was about actors/idols not knowing each other very well, that's what workshops are for. If a company or idol is not comfortable with genuine kissing scenes, they should reconsider their eagerness to participate in BL. Fake kisses convey the message that there is something wrong with same-sex affection.

[@renten17]

I don’t know why abuse r*pe and toxic relationships became romanticized, but I am SICK OF IT. ESPECIALLY as a gay guy, I’m tired of seeing media where people are beating the shit out of eachother and then making out, or just putting idols in it for publicity and then doing nothing.

[@euforkia5827]

reminds me of what at a distance spring is green could’ve been

[@azumakool]

Why?....is it also a straight washed BL?

[@whackeduphairking9881]

kicked my legs with that laugh HELP IM CRYING

[@jiminpov]

bro i was so excited for it cause the casting was very promising but then the eps aired and i quickly realized they turned the og gay couple into straight guys fighting for the same woman and i stopped watching immediately 😭😭 wasted potential tbh

[@jadie6692]

LITERALLYYYYY

[@Gummeyy]

My understanding of the hetero couple thingy is that it will be something like business proposal for example, where there’s 2 main couples. Which is fine i guess as long as it’s an hour long episodes. K-BL genre in general is already short enough and barely has space for a plot point. All i’m asking is for a drama with actual plots, think Goblin, Descendants of the sun, crash landing on you but all with K-BL main leads. The day that finally happens will be a huge W for K-BL genre as a whole.

[@muciSAD]

Kinnporsche the series.

[@Aisha-um4r02]

bruh gmmtv have that long episodes and good bls like bad buddy sotus my school president a tale of thousand stars and few others and don't forget the most popular bl of all time our og kinnporsche

[@muciSAD]

@@Aisha-um4r02 gmmtv shows all suck. I can never finish them, they bore me to hell.

[@connie7128]

It's Korea, that's why. Despite all of the fan service in Kpop and the steps forward in the LGBT community there, South Korea is still a very conservative country that does NOT... I repeat, does NOT approve of homosexuality as a whole. It is frowned upon big time there. I'm honestly surprised that groups like OnlyOneOf are even allowed to perform, given the boy love theme of so much of their work. It's slowly getting better, but people should not be expecting Thailand & Taiwan levels of BL kissing in series coming out of Korea.

[@QueenHela240]

Korea isn't a conservative country. That's what western media says based on what some nobody far-right politicians say, most people are not like that. Normally they are quite modern. Lifestyle, fashion and ideology are sometimes more modern than the west, specially in rich neighborhoods. But homosexuality is not accepted in Korea that much. This is where they are conservative. But it's slowly progressing in that section too.

[@VixenByNight72]

Yet, many BL viewers keep expecting and continue to be disappointed.

[@johnmaster3748]

Having consumed a couple hundred k-dramas in the past four years, I definitely think the actors in those series do not portray romantic kissing in the way actors in American prime time dramas portray romantic kissing. How shall I phrase this....they just don't go for it. Less tongue. Less roaming hands. Less movement of the bodies. Less movement of the lips. = Less Realistic. I suspect this has less to do with the actors and more to do with levels of intimacy acceptable for broadcast standard in Korea as compared to the U.S. Hence, my notion for what makes an "acceptable" TV kiss reflects a lifetime of watching shows with a more permissive (aggressive?) standard. A Korean viewing any random hour of Gray's Anatomy might well conclude Americans have no shame. (Given the way K-dramas discuss the morals of (female) characters who have been influenced by American culture, that's not a particularly daring prediction.) Rather than court controversy for having gone too far, and facing the wrathful backlash that would ensue, the creators pull their punches and create staid kiss scenes. Also, it's certainly not consistent. Some K-dramas feature "good" kissing (looks natural) and some feature "bad" kissing (lips pressed together, bodies freeze). In Korean television, the scripted kiss exists along just such a continuum. For this reason, I feel no particular dismay over the kiss scenes in Jazz for Two. Compared to what I have seen in k-dramas and previous k-BLs, the kiss scenes in Jazz fell into the range of expectation. Admittedly, on the tamer end of that range. Disappointing? Yes, but hardly a scandal. (Which, arguably is the whole point.) Jazz for Two simply played it safe. I can accept that creative choice, but it would be nice if both k-drama and k-bl directors trusted their audiences more, and encouraged more actors to "go for it." For example, draw inspiration from Ohm and Nanon on the rooftop. Those dudes went for it! On the other hand, I do think the editorial may be onto an important side issue vis a vis k-pop idols "slumming it" in BL roles. That's a valid question. If they're not willing to kiss other guys, no wannabe actor should accept a BL role. Established idol crossing over into acting or true newbie seeking a breakout role. And, as our Host noted, that ought to be clear as early as the casting call.

[@lynnzajicek]

💯 Great assessment. I have to the conclusion that this is more cultural than anything else. They play it safe so that they can build a fan base that won’t pigeonhole them into just BL’s. Disappointing? Yes.

[@SleepIntoTheDiamondLife]

cultural differences and thus different preferences exist. shocking, I know. but it's Asia. if you want to watch western bls go for it. but why would you expect western touch on an asian production!?

[@johnmaster3748]

@@SleepIntoTheDiamondLife You should learn to read. The whole point of my post was that the kiss scenes fit within a context of kiss scenes typical of Korean shows. I was fine with it.

[@elizabethwilliamsf3682]

Actually the reason I don’t watch Western series is because it has become like p*rn, I’m all for intimacy but the Korean ones looks like they are forced to do even the slightest bit of intimate scenes. Why look like you are being graped while having a kiss scene. And the dead fish open eyes kisses piss me off too.

[@QueenHela240]

It's PG ratings in Korean channels. Honestly I think some of the American TV shows go too far in intimate scenes. And female characters are WAY more objectified than male characters in American movies and TV shows. It's common in Hollywood for actresses to do all the skin show half naked, while actors wear suits and mostly covered. In Kdramas male characters are objectified too. And in Korean TV shows, they won't show anything because of actor actresses aren't comfortable, BL actors not being committed to their roles and censorship rules. That's why there's lack of realism. I think both sides have problems.

[@narudi18]

Adding a straight couple to a queer main storyline is insane specially if it wasn’t there in the first place? Like there are 99% of Korean dramas have only straight couples, why force it in a bl drama?? This is why I don’t watch Korean bl drama and I only stick to the Korean bl webcomic, I don’t have to deal with this kind of bs

[@RiyaGoala-j4s]

A korean director once said that actors are willing to go for the roles of villain, rapists, 'being ugly' rather than queer. There is a social stigma too. As much as I don't like straight washing, we need to also consider where they are coming from. Korea is not open to queer shows or relationships. Our generation might be a little bit open but that's it. In a society like that even agreeing for the role is a huge dicision. And I bet 95% of the actors doing these roles must have not agreed to it at first but after a lot of persuasion. They trade fame for the role. And I'm not blaming them. Remember, they also grew up in this society too and it's hard to go against something which you've seen is frowned upon all your life. So, I don't blame the actors. Ik it's really slow, but better than no progress at all. Let's not rush it. It will take time. We should be patient. It's hasn't been that much time since kbls started. *This is my opinion of course. You are entitled to yours.* 👍

[@mehjabeenbari4942]

Who's the director?

[@hamu08]

While I get your point, if an actor is afraid of the stigma that comes with playing a queer character then they should just not audition and get cast in these roles. Like, do they think anti LGBT/ conservative folks will be less nasty if they just held hands or if it was a fake kiss? They don't care, anything gay will be seen as bad to them, so why risk it? In the end both the queer community/bl fans AND the conservative crowd will be angry so what's the point. Leave it to the ones who as ACTORS are willing to do the ACTING.

[@blisscustard]

​@@hamu08Agreed 💯👍

[@desmeisme]

3:57 I think those moments were added to portray real situations that happen like this in their society

[@lilacea6047]

I prefer to not have a kiss at all than having the fake kisses. At least in the first option, I can see it as their intimate moments not being the focus just their love and also as something that can reach a younger public, just like we can see in a lot off straight light romances.

[@baakojernigan7095]

Another aspect that I despise is the forced heteronormative gender roles on the top and bottom. Even modern straight couples don't always get this extreme kind of treatment in media bc the directors and writers know there will be backlash so I really don't get what they're doing with queer couples. I also wish there wouldn't be so many exclusive tops/bottoms when irl (altho a lot of people have a preference) most of us are verse. Ik a lot of people view bl as some kind of fantasy genre made by and for straight women but that is not the case any more and I wish they would consult actual lgbt people for more accurate representation.

[@jenniboo9441]

BL is not the same as LGBT. If you don't like aspects of BL don't watch it. Stop trying to force your own crap on a genre

[@sweetbitterpink]

Exactly, this emphasis between top and bottom (specially when people mean like "who is the woman and the man in the relationship" or give "femenine" attributes to one and "masculine" to the other) is totally bizarre and sexist and machista, it does a lot of harm bc, like you said, reinforces gender roles.

[@blueblurcrow]

@@jenniboo9441 got your point but literally what you see is what can be presented or seen on lgbt community, if you're watching a portrayal of a to-be gay couple, people can actually think gay people act as such even if it's fiction. if you don't have any experience or know facts about it, then shut up? people actually get bullied when a guy is quite feminine and already considered a bot when that's not always the case and they also tend to be mostly straight too. I just wish that this trend of stereotype of position when it comes to BL can stop, cause it is not the reality.

[@_Amin_99]

First of all stop spreading false narratives because not all of us are vErS , second of all the hEteRonOrmaTiviTy is used alot in asia so if you don't like it don't watch wokie , your western cancel culture won't work here , i bet you desperately want a series about all the western 💩 like polyamory and open relationships

[@_Amin_99]

1/ stop spreading the false narrative that we're all vErS because we're not 2/ heteronormativity is a thing in asia and asian ppl have no problem woth it so keep your western culture to yourself wokie 3/ there are lgbt producers like p'oaf in thailand and they're doing just fine

[@carcasscrash]

Heesu in class two is one of my favorite Manhwa's. I have reread it multiple times and swooned over how adorable and beautiful it is. I don't mind the straight couple, I actually look forward to how they're going to potray it. But im not sure how they're going to divide the screen time as you said heesu is the main character. It's called Heesu in class two. Another thing is there's already another side couple. The actual side couple, (another queer plotline) which we still haven't gotten closure for. I heard that the lesbian mother plotline is still in so im relieved. That would have actually made me mad. I'd rather take addition that subtraction. At this point, I will eat up anything. I just hope it doesn't disappoint. Either way, I look forward to how they're going to do this as it's mainstream.

[@corazonrasgado5052]

Honestly BL is like a milking cow -_- milk us fans and using LGBT ( G Part ) Community as "milk cow"

[@ninal-sn9nz]

Yessss😑

[@blueblurcrow]

it's all money in the end but damn, even if the world is about to end, will we ever stop being shameless. it's already tiring to be part of lgbt and you see these stuffs representing lgbt, are we always going to be a joke

[@mizukiscore]

no, because now that I am watching the video I get it, but just in case jazz for two, a shoulder to cry on I feel like the whole point of the series was to market the idols. like these days a lot of new idols or actors, in general, are hard-launched by debuting them into "bl". Just like in bump up business. And "to protect certain idols from weird fanfictions and sexualized edits" they turn the whole dynamic of the love in the bl into that similar to as someone in the comments said if we were suddenly back to the early days of (in this case Thai) BL where intimacy would be either some angle kiss or physical abuse misconstrued as "love". No because it is so ironic and funny and weird, because they are trying to show how the characters suffer from homophobia and "try to fight the homophobia" while they are scared of homophobia so they either some angle kiss or physical intimacy. And "certain people," say that nOt EvEry CoUpLE In thE SeRIEs nEeDs To KiSs Or NEeD To ShOw InTiMaCy bro I get it but the plot itself is sickening. I love omega x and even know what they went through because of their previous company. AND HONESTLY, I EVEN GET THE POINT OF MARKETING YOURSELF IN A DRAMA AT THIS POINT BUT BRO if they are included in a drama at least give me a story without physical abuse misconstrued as "love" or straight washing or the psychological genre which is actually emotional abuse misconstrued as "love". like genuinely, I really want to watch at least a good bl, for me Cherry Magic Thailand was the only bl that I thought was great, and it literally healed everything like every trauma I got after watching the other bls

[@bequietnoonelikesyou558]

i literally had this conversation the other day. also watch blueming, its a kbl and has been my #1 ever since it came out.

[@unknown893]

omg "bump of business"was so meh throughout the whole i didnt feel any single thing between them like it was missing something.

[@Pincurchinn]

@@unknown893 im a big fan of onlyoneof so i was very excited for this, so i read the source material before the drama and it was so bad, like painfully bad. the writing was either all over the place, or there was nothing. the characters were like empty shells who had no personality above their main character archetype, especially the main character eden. his character just seemed to have no thoughts in his head, like genuinly his actions made no sense or it felt like he was overacting. i think the drama couldve really benefited from better writing, directing and as much as i love ooo, their acting did feel akward but it could be bc of the writing perhaps like in twilight where the main actors are great but the writing and directing made them feel akward.

[@user-432svtbz]

absolutely all facts stated. jazz for two was so disappointing with the side couple and brightwin truly felt like using bl to get more acting offers since thai people consume more bl than hetero dramas.. it is so sad how they're constantly trying to trick viewers like they don't have eyes smh on the other hand, i still find hope with a few recent kbl series like LFLS, J&J and the director who buys me dinner (though the kiss was awkward, at least it was real) which show real kissing scenes and the actors look genuinely comfortable with each other

[@jenniboo9441]

What? Thai people do not consume more BL than hetero content. Where do people come up with this nonsense?? BL is a very small, very niche genre in Thailand. It is by no means mainstream

[@Ihavenocluewhattodo]

I just need these BL producers to understand one simple point: YOU DON'T HAVE TO ADD A FAKE KISS SCENE OR EVEN A REAL KISS SCENE TO ESTABLISH A CONNECTION! Chemistry is something that the actors bring to the table, as long as they don't have that even a full-out NSFW scene won't have any effect. I'm honestly so fed up of these type of scenes and because the audience don't point this out or criticize them they continue this shit

[@Skinniest_Kween]

You can tell these were written to serve straight girls’ idealised versions of a queer romance.

[@narnia_eclipse389]

1:00 Kim Ji Woong said fuck that

[@maine3666]

The thing is if you are disgusted to kiss the same gender then don't take up the role,as simple as that. Making the role believable is part of the actor's job so if you can't kiss your partner then just reject the whole role and pave way for someone who doesn't mind. Some of these guys wanna ride on the fame BLs brings but actually are anti queers or homophobes.

[@jamiesilver7401]

I really had high hopes that after To my star the trend of fake kisses or fish kisses in K-bl would die once and for all, sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. So many Korean production companies just come off as cowardly to me. Ten years ago Thailand's first ever bl aired on television, it was a shot in the dark, but someone was brave enough to say lets do this. It was a massive success, and the industry has come so far since Love Sick. I was hoping Heesu in class 2 would be Korea's Love Sick, but no they were cowards and decided to pander to the straight people that probably won't watch the show anyway.

[@bequietnoonelikesyou558]

hwang daseul always on top 🫡

[@JoCoelho-hm5lw]

Love sick ... my first Thai BL ... unforgotten ...

[@unknown893]

deadfish kisses💀

[@mafuyu1380]

Fake kiss scenes in 2024...pls....

[@ShinichiKudoQatnip]

Thanks for the heads up, not gonna watch "jazz for 2" now, I've had it on my list for so long.

[@sizzybae6662]

THANK YOU this video is so well done thank you thank you

[@anonymously-mysterious3812]

It’s all really weird to me. For me personally, I don’t want (p)orn BL’s, I just want realness. And waiting a whole season for 2 pecks on the lips or fake angles in the last episode is so weird to me. A lot of people might say kissing isn’t needed but that’s literally what Love is. love is not just an internal emotional connection for each other, but it’s physical. If you aren’t displaying love in ALL its languages, why are you in the Boy LOVE industry ? It’s just weird to me lmao. All we ask for is Realness, stop with the weird shi and give the people REAL LIFE QUEER !

[@Yunik_Nonny]

I don't even bother with Korean bl cos they're annoyingly short with mid romance and kiss scenes. Thai bls do it for me and i just recently discovered Taiwanese bls are amazing with good storylines with actors that portray the characters and emotions very well. In that case,I'd really like more Taiwanese bl recommendations,I've only watched 2 and I'm impressed

[@somx7117]

The HIStory series are pretty good! My favorites are History 2: Crossing the Line and History 3: Trapped. Kiseki: Dear To Me was also really good.

[@Yunik_Nonny]

@@somx7117 Thanks for the recommendations. Kiseki dear to me was 1 of the 2 Taiwanese bls I've seen. I'll check out the rest

[@olivesareoliver]

Watch plus & minus if you haven't already!

[@Yunik_Nonny]

@@olivesareoliver thanks..adding it to my to-watch list

[@ellamartins2623]

You should try Japanese bls too..they are so good

[@Hellokitty_391]

My man kim jiwoong and park jaechan can't relate 🤭

[@embreis2257]

3:58 'Doyoon and Juha was particularly disappointing when you realise _Jazz For Two_ also has so many homophobic moments in it.' I couldn't have expressed it any better. it is so immensely important to address toxicity appropriately and the homophobic moments needed to be addressed loud and clear. if the actors have a problem with intimacy then the script/direction has to make more than up for it but sadly, _Jazz For Two_ didn't live up to that expectation.

[@Miwo-]

“Or in my middle school drama club” LMAO PLEASE 😭😭

[@irakulkarni5445]

I mean you can just make a series without a kiss scene if you don't want to show 2 people kiss. Atleast you don't make a half assed kiss scene. I mean look at untamed, without a single kiss scene they managed to create a romance and chemistry.

[@sarawatineshalfpick]

Exactly! They can also look at some Japanese bl that barely have any kissing scene yet we can still feel the chemistry

[@paimonspinkie]

Kpop idols can't kiss even for a scene?? I'm confused.. didn't DK from seventeen have a kissing scene with an actress in a play (so it definitely wasn't edited) and noone bat an eye ? or is it just because its an idol kissing a man...then why let them act in the bl in the first place? Agh the Kpop industry is so confusing

[@jiminpov]

seokminnie kissed a woman and it was for a musical play so no one rlly cared since everyone was more focused on his singing and his skills as an idol. although the kiss was extremely shocking bc he IS an idol after all. no one rlly said anything negative (??) bout it bc it wasn’t a kdrama. i would say ppl were actually happy to see him do so well in something so new to him.

[@paimonspinkie]

@@jiminpov i still dont get it, so aren't people gona focus on the skills of an idol or on the plot of a kdrama when they r watching it?? yah kdramas and plays are different, but theyre both forms of entertainment. the fans know nothing they r saying is real unless theyre like super delusional. i really just think it's the agency putting unnecessary restrictions on their idols and also the maturity of the fandom that the idol is from cuz aint no way some idols get to be in a kissing scene and some don't.

[@agneteht]

Fake kisses are not specific to BL but rather a feature of asian cinema that tends to be less explicit and work more with implied intimacy, angles, circular shots, etc. Historically all Kdramas have had this and it is still rare to see very intimate kissing, it is a county where lovers may not even hold hands or kiss in public so you can hardly expect BL to be particularly explicit when not even most ordinary kdramas are.

[@mmjkoljik7684]

thank you for that observation.

[@artemisia_]

I don't think the issue with Heesu I Class 2 can be called straightwashing. As long as the gay story is still gay as originally is. It won't be the first time a second couple will be made up, just that this time it's a straight one. I think we should wait for it to come out before passing judgment. There are shows that actually scrap any mention of a gay romance.

[@johnmaster3748]

I tend to agree with the wait-and-see approach before launching broadsides of condemnation. Aside from the angle mentioned in the video about the mainstream broadcaster, there is also the question of how many episodes and episode running time. The typical streaming k-BL has maybe eight episodes under 30 minutes, totaling less than four hours. The typical series for broadcast has a much longer running time. Does the source material offer enough content to fill the time the broadcaster was willing to offer? It is possible some additional story had to be invented to fill the gaps. Keep in mind also that k-drama viewers are accustomed to series with multiple stories splitting screen time. Plus, the typical k-drama lists second couples as leads on MDL, so such branding here may be less significant than it seems.

[@jathurshi.m9004]

well they didnt JUST invent a whole new straight couple. they also ignored the OTHER gay couple in the manhwa. idk if they will squeeze in a third couple but the chances are..

[@seulk7527]

This happened with a new show about a gangster goes into a body of a high school student and it was originally a bl but they changed it to straight 😭

[@carcasscrash]

Yeah. I just want it to be released, and any further judgement can happen after. Maybe I have low standards, but as long as they don't take away any existing topics, im interested.

[@carcasscrash]

@@jathurshi.m9004 I don't think they will show them. They come around in the second part and we still don't have a conclusion so im not sure.

[@ameyagupta8775]

😂😂 then i remember Heechul who casually kisses his member while performing

[@seraph39]

If they (actors) don't wanna portray charcters (in drama) true feelings through romantic and intimate scenes even simple kisses and warm hugs, then why the hell did they (actor) wanna casted in like this series ??? 😶😑 We (bl fans) wanna feel the characters feeling and wanna be emotionally connected with the characters. For that, u people (damn actors) should be emotionally connected with the characters u are gonna portray and deliver the emotions of the characters as it is ... If u can't do the above things, then kindly don't act in bl series... 🙅🏻🙏🏻

[@SergeDuka]

It drives me nuts as well. If you are straight and you can't stand kissing another man, DON'T APPLY FOR THE GODDAMN JOB!!! There's a massive number of gay men who can act (the entire industry of acting, starting with ancient theaters, was defined and developed by women and gay men, to begin with). Let gay men have these roles because they may also be uncomfortable kissing a woman, but there aren't many roles where they could avoid that.

[@빈창-w5p]

Heteronormativity in BLs pisses me off so bad. Most early Thai and Chinese BLs have that and it's why I dislike them so much .

[@scg9895]

Meanwhile, Taiwan is killing it with good plots, great cinematography and acting.

[@katzieh5356]

I have waited for the heesu in class 2 series for two years i think, i'm gonna be so disappointed if the straight couple will take away a lot from the main couple's storyline 😭😭 i honestly wouldnt even mind a straight couple if they are just as supportive roles. But i guess we just gotta wait and see what actually happens

[@luthienmpl]

On the topic of young actors/rookie idols seeing BL as a stepping stone/shot at fame, I'm curious on your thoughts on youtube series Cityboy_log, starring Jaejun from idol group TAN. The kisses in that one are the furthest thing from fake, but the show is hitting such a weird note for me. I'm enjoying myself and feeling kinda icky about it at the same time, and part of it is definitely that I can't help questioning the production team's motives.

[@-joi-]

A good example of a Great BL was the movie "happy together" directed by famous director and filmmaker wong kar wai, one of the actors is gay, and the other co actor is a very good and professional actor and the intimacy is so realistic and so good 👍 as a gay boy i think is one of the best portraits of gay romance in my opinion, they should hire more actors that actually have interest in the role and portraying a gay character with full intimacy, rather than offering a good check to actors they want to fit in, and end up creating limitations on the script phasing of the film and putting restrictions, basically ruining the BL industry because they want famous actors on their BLs.

[@Pincurchinn]

i was excited for 'jazz for two' mainly bc of jinkwon from newkidd as im a fan but the drama was so lackluster. it started off pretty well until taeyi started using physical force, and didnt stop even when seheon told him to. at the very least i was hoping for good character development, but somehow taeyi got worse near the end of the series using homophobic and *transphobic insults, and then he was forgiven the next day and they got together?? i thought bls had strayed away in general from characters being abusive when it comes to their love interest. like i would except that from maybe early thai bl, but 2024 bl?? the series really suffered from bad writing. bc how are we giving the ok on these characters like taeyi and jooha being assholes, and then seheon and doyoon somehow still end up with them when they never redeemed themselves at the very least. also i dont mind characters having internalised homophobia, but its really disappointing when they outwardly shame other characters for being queer. overall its a shame the writiting was bad, bc the acting was superb. especially from jooha's actor jungha. sidenote: i dont mind the lack of kissing in a series, as long as theres other forms of showing their love/care for each other however i dont get the point of censoring a kiss. and they dont even do it well, like its super obvious especially in 'jazz for two' bc the screen suddenly blurred like it was such a bizarre stylistic choice that came out of nowhere. *he said 'what, are you transgender?' but it got transalted as 'what, are you a girl?'. the translation made it seem more like a mockery of seheon's masculinity, when in reality taeyi was more like 'dont tell me youre trans or sm'.

[@jjjjustak-popstanfanlovek-7963]

Oh I’m new here just subscribed Thanks for the video

[@byulsarang]

Welcome! i’m so glad you’re here 🥰

[@Stealaire]

After watching Jazz for Two, I read the comments and discover that I have a toxic relationship with it : I loved it and was completely blind to its flaws. Even now, knowing how much people dislike/are mad at this BL, for good reasons, I'm still in love with it despite everything.... And the worst is that if I saw another show with the same flaws, I would go bananas. I can't explain why I'm blinded by love here. Maybe it's because I was so happy to see it adapted ? Maybe because I was immediately charmed by the side couple ? I don't know. I'm sorry 😭💔

[@0912sooli]

I mean you can love what you want but dont lie when you see red flags and realise that it won't work in real life as it was in kdrama

[@Stealaire]

@@0912sooli Thankfully, in real life, i experienced one toxic relationship when i was young and it vaccinated me for life lmao. No one can fool me now, i see a red flag, I immediately back off and bye bye. I can't stand them, it's like a trigger But fiction works different I guess? I'm aware, but I still love Jazz for Two for exemple... Thanks for caring

[@AluraAlua]

Some of my favorite BLs, be it live action or in book form, have zero physical intimacy. It's not necessary for a BL to be enjoyable. That being said, a BAD or fake kiss scene IMMEDIATELY kills ALL chemistry and work the actors have put in up until that point. If they don't want explicit intimacy that's fine, but then just leave it out entirely.

[@monikaram8904]

Dude you really highlights the case I really appreciate that we are the watcher we have the right to see best of our BL if directors, actors screen writers don't give us what we want then f*"ck off we don't need your series to be watching please for BL fans keep up and raise your voice for our love and rights ❤

[@Fujoshi13]

I totally agree with you and it is frustrating.

[@bjcool5663]

In my own view its not important for bl actors to kiss. What's important is the plot of the story and how the actors portray their love. I have watched multiple bl series with no kiss scenes and still felt satisfied without the actors kissing. I find its rather good if they don't kiss couse you are welcome to watch it around people. The aim is to tell a story no sexualise them

[@annathorn9828]

Fake kissing scenes are actually used a bit in film in general, not just BL's. And it's not a bad thing, it just has to do with what the actors are comfortable with.

[@seorose]

I think: The actors in gay series don't necessarily have to be gay or queer themselves, it's enough if they have sympathy for LGBTQ+ and are willing to portray these characters decently and as convincingly as they would do in hetero couples. As far as I'm concerned, the actors can also be idols, but only if the idols are 100% behind it and portray it exactly as it should be. I mean, it's really okay when idols say they'll take on the roles, but they also have to be aware that people who belong to the LGBTQ+ community in particular also expect what is shown to be convincing. I don't expect the actors to engage in fan service as is often the case in Thailand. For me it's enough if the chemistry between the actors in the actual series convinces me. I think straightwashing in BLs is absolutely out of place, as is homophobic behavior. I mean, it's okay to show how society behaves sometimes, that makes it more realistic, but I still think it's better when the focus is on the main story You don't go into too much detail about all the trivial things, it's clear, but if it affects the chemistry of the main characters, it's simply nothing. Here you have to consider whether it was the production, the writing or the actors themselves, if everything is right that's nice. Personally, I don't like the same processes as in Thai BL series, the cursed 11th episode, an ex-girlfriend comes back from nowhere, or an ex-boyfriend and the concept of "I'm not gay, but with you it's something different ". I found many of the BLs that I used to watch when I was new to it better than I find them today and I have noticed that I have often become more critical when it comes to BLs. I often tend to speak negatively about certain series and often it is because of the Episodes are too short, there are not enough episodes, especially with Korean BL series, and if there are not enough episodes and less running time you should make the most of what you have, which unfortunately is often not the case. I then often add a few things to the story in my head to make it generally more convincing or watch it while it is still ongoing, because that way I can still hope that it will be better in the next episode. And at least series like "The Untamed" or "Stay with me", who have the struggle of Censor Ship, show me that it is possible to have some clear queer coded series even without direct kiss szenes or intimate scenes, sometimes series dosn't need both to show the desire of the main couple. If they can't act the kiss probably they shouldn't try to make things like that, a cam kiss can be good but also be annoying, but before you film a bad kiss with a close up, make a good camera ankle kiss and before you choose this let it be or do it right. In my POV we also don't actually need extremely NCS when they convince us with their acting how deeply they are in love. Some of the BLs, they are coming out have good ideas behind them but they lack in writing, production, acting or chemestry.

[@Hemogoblin127]

I HATE the fake kissing. I feel like if you're gonna have a kiss scene, go full out! If not, then don't include it! There are so many other ways to portray intimacy/love without a kiss! It's so clear whenever directors just clearly want to pander to fetishizers and want to make a quick buck instead of actually portraying a queer story. It's so annoying!

[@kristin123a]

I honestly don’t mind having a hetero couple in a BL or queer show. I’d honestly like a more realistic portrayal where it’s not like 50 guys in the same class suddenly “turning gay” and dating each other and brothers and what not. Straight people can be friends with gay people and go on double dates, talk about relationship issues etc. if they turn the gay couple into the second couple or as “gay fishing” it’s a problem. Normalize supportive straight people in BL’s like Jihye from Semantic Error.

[@v2-ek2vl]

jihye best girl, i am in dire need of more supportive straight girls like her in this genre. the annoying side-girl trope is so overdone in bls as a whole, it's aggravating.

[@jadie6692]

5:50 cough cough At a Distance, Spring is Green 🙄

[@SS501Fan101]

Yeah I haven't even watched Jazz For Two but seeing that scene honestly pissed me off, it's like what some people do for Chinese BLs, change the story so it's "bromance" but keep the chemistry, it's very homophobic in my eyes

[@Park_Jjongsaeng]

tine and sarawat's actors are the biggest yaoi fame riders

[@DianaRose-yn8ux]

Jazz for 2 should have been given a different title and should have stuck on shoulder to cry on

[@1Ahnaf]

If they wanna make a adaptation of a webtoon just select or chose a straight webtoon what's the reason to destroy a bl storyline, And kissing scene using camera angles is so lame at this point even Korean bl industry have came a long way for them to do this

[@ShinichiKudoQatnip]

Avoiding "Heesu in Class Under" too!

[@agneteht]

Also as for "accurately portraying" many of the yaoi basis for BL dramas are outright porn. So there's that to. If gay porn is what you yearn for that's fine. But there are lots of good reason to take a solid core story and make it into a drama without all the explicit sex.

[@jathurshi.m9004]

what pisses me off about heesu in class 2 is that there's another gay couple in the manhwa. why would they ignore that and invent a heterosexual couple? the target audience is literally gay teens. everyone who read heesu in class 2 are either queer folk or allies. we dont need straight couples we see enough of them already!

[@R.T_W]

the worst of all , is in interviews of some series , when asked what's the characters's relationship and everyone involved say ''they're more then friends'' and they NEVER confirm that they're attracted to each other romantically. Even at the end of a story their status stay ambiguos. and it leaves you thinking : SO WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE SERIE?

[@guadalupesantiago4373]

HELLO the straightwashing part is MINDBLOWING why make a bl series at all if they aren't the main subject of the series ???!

[@clxudixs]

love mix up did bl well without a kiss

[@fyrozerahmanfaruqui6626]

That's the reason I don't like to watch Kbl or Thai bls (tho im an active thai bl watcher). Without chemistry nothing literally nothing is complete. Better watch CHINESE BROMANCE. They have better plot with huge chemistry without any kiss and makes anyone's heart flatter . JAPANESE BLs r top notch with grt intimacy. nowadays THAI bls r just not my type they r getting boring with same plots but there r still some interesting bls . And I don't know how to complain about the kisses of KBL . Actually the straight drama kiss are like they r forced to do it . The actors are either just not fit or they r super uncomfortable with these

[@paniclisamode5332]

honestly korean bls are just relli bad it's just famous because of the popularity of kdrama and kpop tbh...Jazz for Two was honestly a mess. They really didn't know how to handle homophobia or portray queer characters well. The way they forgave each other's toxic behavior was just crazy and that fake kiss scene was just cherry on top for me to hate it more. It's like they're using BL just to get famous quick and make some cash without even understanding queer culture. there are gems like Semantic Error and Eight Sense, but most of them are just boring and superficial.

[@mybangtanvbes5432]

Yeah, this is truly disappointing! As a BL fan with more than 7 years in the genre, I have to confirm that the Korean BL industry still has a certain taboo and they are quite conservative about lgbtq. Although it's a successful industry, heterosexual kdramas have more priority and more story, content, intimacy and characters look pretty confortable with each other in their series. Personally, I find straight kdramas very boring and long when the BLs are something new and fresh. That's why it's vital in Thailand (a country mostly known for its quantities of BLs and the great freedom they demonstrate with queer stories).BLs have a huge future ahead but, sadly, it seems that it's still being repressed. LET'S SUPPORT BL DIRECTORS AND WRITERS MORE! ❤

[@mizukiscore]

Also, I think you should start a podcast (I would love to help because I feel like for me too I have so much to say point out but I don't really can anywhere)!

[@universeofopulence]

...if actors are not comfortable doing nc scenes, they shouldn't be forced to do it, bcos a lot of straight actors are not comfortable doing gxy roles, BUT why cast them even , just to profit off of their fame, there are many actors who ARE comfortable doing these scenes and there are gxy actors who wudnt mind doing these roles, give them the casting.. Don't put actors in situations where they have to go against their will and actors need to be upfront about their acting preferences and production companies need think about authenticity of their products and not just produce these superficially 🤦😅😮

[@约翰·约书亚]

Was laughing my a$$ offf with that fake kiss lol

[@larrystylinsonisreal5394]

I watched jazz for two and certain aspects definitely felt homophobic for no reason and the kiss pissed me off aswell because why not cast actors who are ACTUALLY willing to do the roles. and i am sooo glad you pointed out bright and win, they did one series cashed out on the fame and dipped like its not a good look.

[@ankitabipinraj3707]

I totally agree cause story is really good if there would be more authentic intimate scene it would more better

[@sakurakou2009]

They acting, this fiction not real, they are playing characters on screen, they don't have to identify with the characters they act

[@reinalaflow]

I love this ❤❤ its like a mirror of truth 🥺😘

[@oh.s]

Heesu in Class 2 is the fire BL I ever read and I absolutely love it, and I re-read it every once in a while. So, it does hold a special place for me. I don't mind having Chanyoung and Jiyu (the side characters) being a couple in the live action remake, because if you're going to make a live action adaptation of a webtoon or book, switch things up a bit. A 1;1 retelling of the original source material is boring. But, the series is called *HEESU* in Class 2, so it's wrong to sideline Heesu and Seungwon and push Chanyoung and Jiyu, just for the sake of appealing to a straight (+ possibly homophobic) audience.

[@sugarbxg._]

Honestly for me, Jazz for two could have been such a hit only if they extended the storyline a bit and showed the character development in Taeyi and Juha a bit. I didn't like the fact that Taeyi harrassed Seheon and that they literally got together the very next day😭😭 I was waiting for Taeyi to maybe actually big apologize to Seheon and maybe pursue him a bit but then Sehyeon also literally accepted Taeyi and got in a relationship with a man who just assaulted him for liking him and being gay as if nothing happened😭😭. I really needed to see the character development in them.

[@therapistandenglishlanguag6268]

And actually it’s not only about kiss scenes. A lot of onscreen bl couples lacks intimacy. You can have no kiss scenes but still portray couple intimacy. But they just don’t do it

[@tangentreverent4821]

Yeah, portrayals of homophobia have value for educating people who aren't aware of it or don't take seriously, but I grew up in a homophobic family and have been out of the closet for a little over 27 years, I don't like watching such scenes.

[@E5va]

you are mentioning the untamed like wen qing wasnt in initial script supposed to be wwx love interest is kinda... yeah. the final version is as it is only bcs fans rioted or something like this