Falconry: Harris hawks vs Goshawks. A comparison.

[@ayeartogrow]

God bless Harris Hawks!! Some of my favorite falconry related memories over 20 years are trapping passage Harris Hawks in the AZ desert. Harris Hawks seem so domestic to me, and they are built so well for falconry, and they are so world wide spread now in falconry that I almost can't help see them as a domestic animal shaped by humans to work with humans. To see packs of them hunting together in the wild is a real pleasure and a reminder that indeed they were shaped that way over time without influence from people. When Ben says they are easy to train, that is an understatement. In fact you can almost say no training is involved, besides getting them comfortable with you there isn't much else to do. I remember a late passage Harris Hawk I had trapped in December. I had been manning him for a week (7 or 8 days since I trapped him) and I took him and my dog out for our first free flight. He flew to a tree and I tried to call him back to the fist. He refused. So I tried a few other tricks (more food, getting closer, taking the dog away and trying to call him without the dog, dragging the lure, etc....) and he had no real interest in coming down. I sat and watched him and it occurred to me that what he wanted was to hunt. I could just see it. So I called the dog, turned around and walked away from him beating the brush with my stick as I went. I went maybe 25 feet and here he came gliding over to perch on another tree right in front of me. That is absolutely crazy!! 30 minutes later he was on a cottontail kill. I've had other Harris Hawks that could be flown (not necessarily hunted, but flown) at any weight. ANY WEIGHT. I flew one all through his molt. He'd love to come on walks with my dogs and I. He'd just follow us through the cover and buzz (but not grab) rabbits that flushed. And on one hunt a male Harris Hawk of mine took 3 cottontails on the way up a mountain (I was trying to find Chukar Partridge), then took a Chukar on top of the mountain and I let him eat on that chukar until he couldn't eat anymore. He had a bustin' full crop and I was still an hour walk from my car. I had never hood trained him, and never tied him down to my fist. Despite being stuffed he was jumpy still and wanted off my fist. I let him go to see what he would do. What he did was follow as closely as ever and then near the base of the mountain he caught another cottontail that bolted out below us, full crop and all!! Now that's what I call a cooks bird :P. Falconry is hard and intense. Flying Harris Hawks is not. I haven't even told the story of the Harris Hawk I trained to follow me as I rode my mountain bike.... I could go on and on about Harris Hawks :), but I'll stop where I started. God bless Harris Hawks!!

[@viveviveka2651]

Good stories. It would be great to hear more. I'm in AZ too, btw. Sonoran desert country.

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences on here! Harris hawks are legitimately so amazing. And I love hearing other people’s stories and experiences on here with them.

[@Truthhunter4life]

Thank you for sharing these great stories. I personally would love to hear more; including the variety of game that you hunted/caught with them. Thanks again.

[@martinrusnak7523]

Thank you for sharing 🙏🏼 Realy a very good documentation 👌🏼

[@norimermaid2983]

This is assisting me greatly, so many of your videos. I am getting into falconry and my sponsor/mentor recommended your videos and channel, while I won't be starting with goshawks by any means, he has goshawks and wants me to start with either a Harris Hawk or red tailed hawk. But one day I may move into working with goshawks due to living near the Canadian border in Idaho and the cold climate is harsh even for our local wild life

[@elenashenesky6686]

This was so informative! Thank you! Falconry is a recently acquired interest for me and as chance would have it I just saw a BEAUTIFULLL goshawk just outside my kitchen window the other day. I'm sad that the legal red tape around Falconry in my state is just so stringent. If it weren't, I would have tried to partner up with that goshawk. Cause I was in absolute awe of it when I saw it the other day. Just beautiful.

[@rippy4freedom]

I enjoy each and every video... Thank you so much. I am in sponge mode so I am not offering any practical experience in my comments.... YET. I am an aspiring Falconer. 🙏

[@KikiYushima]

Hey Ben I just wanted to say I really enjoy your videos. They're kind of my primary method of learning about falconry. I'm a writer, not an apprentice, and I try to portray things as realistically as I can to the fullest extent of my knowledge. I will admit I'm mostly relegated to your videos and a couple of books I've picked up. I just really enjoy learning about falconry!

[@xmcgivney]

Another great educational and insightful video Ben!

[@dannym7571]

Your videos have been extremely informative and helpful. Would love to see one on all aspects of off season care/ husbandry. A focus on Red-tailed Hawks would be very beneficial. Thanks for doing this.

[@wakeg40]

Love your videos! Could you adjust the light a little? It’s bleaching out your head/face from the middle top of the screen.

[@NbSkaz]

So I grew up in England for a couple of years. Saw a lot of Falconry and Goshawks are my favourite bird. I had an issue with a raptor as a kid. Kid wears glove with a bit of meat and bird flies over in front of a crowd, lands on glove and eats. LOL not this time. Hold the gloved hand over your head. Bird wasn't hungry or wanted to land on the highest point. Talons on shoulder warranted a test of calmness for sure. The bird was balancing so pinch. Sharp. Sharp. Pinch. Sharp. Sharp. Sharp. Beautiful bird. 100% would get shoulder gripped again.

[@georgesakellaropoulos8162]

It cracks me up when I see Harris' Hawks used in cinematic productions that are set in 16th century Europe.

[@HutchingsMuseum]

so very true!

[@featherspreaderinc3146]

Great content Ben. Keep it up. My apprentices enjoy them all.

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

Thank you so much!

[@ryanrichardson5462]

Nothing is better than a well conditioned and confident goshawk. Flew a male harris for 5 seasons. They do amazing things and the bond is genuine. Weight is key with accipiter's. If you have this right they are lethal to anything that moves in the field.

[@keerthivasannambiraju955]

Harris hawks have short broad wings and long tails like an acciptrine and I would like to see it do an obstacle course for accipitrines.

[@lexiequirie7915]

I would love to see more videos on training goshawks. I have recently been upgraded to general falconer and a gos is the next bird I want to fly. I have Mike McDermott’s books, of course, but I seem to learn better watching and listening rather than just reading. Thanks so much!

[@stevenwoods9232]

I think your video’s are very informative, keep them coming

[@viveviveka2651]

The stories of falconers' most memorable experiences are fascinating, including the Harris hawk experiences shared today in the comments section. I would love to see interviews with falconers in which they share some of the highlights from their years of falconry. Maybe in a split-screen format, with you on one side and the falconer being interviewed on the other? Possibly via Skype or something similar. With your falconry connections, you could probably come up with some great experiences to share. And your own as well.

[@kevinomara5030]

Try ‘Falconry Told’ a podcast with involvement from Steve Chindgrin.

[@fielddaisy9493]

Great information, keep up the great work good sir.

[@viveviveka2651]

I would be very interested in hearing exactly how Harris's hawks came to be recognized and used by falconers. Who were the first? How did it happen? How did it spread and progress? How long did it take? Was there more resistance in the Old World?

[@jantirpak7902]

Excellent comment, I recommend to all my falconry candidates your videos. Have a nice day.

[@lewsouder]

Well done Ben. Your take on gosses are spot on.

[@ThatOneSnake]

Also, by the way, "unicinctus" means "single band" in reference to the white band on the Harris's hawk's tail. There is another species of Parabuteo, P. leucorrhous, the white rumped hawk.

[@codydunsmuir9398]

Hey Ben, just an idea but when you do these comparison videos you could add a section on hybrids of the two if applicable.

[@melutter1750]

Love Goshawks ❤️

[@earlhanger6509]

I’d rather enjoy watching your videos I have always been interested in falconry you ask the question does it count as a catch if you catch the bird with your hand but you didn’t answer does it count as a catch?

[@jaimerodas901]

Harrys hawk is reborning the falconry for news falconers. Others species like Buteo Polyisoma has a lot of potential as the harrys and i maybe became popular too.

[@geoffhirschi803]

"What is the downside to goshawks?" They are NUTS. All of em.

[@featherspreaderinc3146]

Less asper if kept off the ground and keep chambers or weathering area clean.

[@viveviveka2651]

A couple of additional thoughts on goshawks vs Harris's hawks: Some people need or want or like strong, stimulating challenges. The goshawks are more of a challenge. Failure, though, is more likely. People who don't take failure well, or are knocked down or seriously set back psychologically by failure, would probably be better off with Harris's hawks. Some people get very depressed by certain failures. In particular, the loss of a bird that takes off, or the death of a bird, especially when they are blaming themselves. Those people should probably not go with a goshawk. Harris's would be a better choice, or maybe even something other than falconry.

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

Well said!

[@toddglennbarrow]

Thanks for these videos Ben. A question I have is- we see lots of Rough-legged Hawks in Utah during the winter months. Why don't I hear about anyone using them for falconry?

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

A lot of people have used them for education birds. But for falconry people are generally dismissive of them in the same way they are towards swainson’s hawks. I am the only person I know of who is ever taking them seriously and actively hunted with them. I haven’t hunted with one for years. But I have had two females that were amazing rabbit hunters in years past. I had originally intended to trap one this past winter and document the training and hunting for people to see, since it is a species people never see you flown. But rabbit populations were so low I decided against it. When they revamped our legal species list for the state of Utah and asked for input, I pushed hard to keep this species on our list. If you think of a red tail as a standard as far as the abilities and limitations of a buteo, right there in the middle of the scale, and a Ferruginous one far end of the scale, as denser, faster in direct pursuit, and more work to train, then a rough leg is the other side of the scale. They are generally easier to train than a red tail or a ferrugie. They hood easily and are very good-natured. They are extremely buoyant and lend themselves better to soar hawking than any other native buteo. One way or another I will have a video on them eventually. Probably in this upcoming winter.

[@toddglennbarrow]

@@benwoodrufffalconry Awesome. Would love to see a comparison of those three on that spectrum.

[@seadrifter8975]

Goshawks are so menacing great video

[@filipskk475]

Hello from Slovakia Ben, really interesting and well done video as always! I was wondering, if you ever heard of or knew anyone who hunted with kites (milvus genus). I mean sure they have small weak footsies, but are very agile in air and I could think of a few ways that could be used along with their unique flight style. Hope you'll find the time to answer or discuss. Thanks!

[@lohikarhu734]

I have 2 paorsein our area, a delight to watch them cruise about (we are on a hilltop, good upward wind, even without thermals) we also have a pair of Buzzards, who we see sitting in trees, just down the road...hawks for everyone!

[@harouncoulibaly6222]

Hello can you do a red tailed vs Harris hawk vid pls

[@SL-vx1sx]

I can't find any good recommendations on what temperature to bring my Harris hawk in from. I usually hear that it just varies. I have been bringing him in at 32 degrees F and below just to be sure. He is at flying weight so I want to make sure that he doesn't get wing tip edema or frostbite. Do you have any temperature recommendations?

[@WyldfireKeeper]

What do you mean by cold and hot environments? I live in NC and am interested in which species might work best here. Goshawks are native here, but very rare and only here during the winter. Harris hawks are not native here. Our winters are mostly in the low 30s, but we have occasional nights that drop into the single digits (though I’ve never seen it below 0). Our summers are mostly in the high 80s, but we do have frequent periods in the high 90s, which has become increasingly common in the last couple of years.

[@darrenreid7631]

I think the aggression in goshawks is mainly from the imprinted individuals, my parent reared goshawk shows no aggression to me at all... but he does attack my dog sometimes 🤦‍♂️🤣

[@geoffhirschi803]

aggression in goshawks comes from people who do not understand how to interact with them. Parent reared and passage goshawks are less inclined to aggression, but are certainly not immune to it.

[@peteranddorothybowles5428]

If i had a busy day i would fly my harrises two at a time out of my garden They are so easy and not stressy at all Fantastic birds Best value or not far off Great starter hawk Pete UK

[@peregrinesmith1117]

How about some videos of your birds out hawking.

[@JOSHWICK93]

Who wins in a fight Harris vs ghos vs red tail ? I’m thinning redtail since it’s size compared to the other two even tho the ghos is more aggressive

[@Sardonic_Cynic]

a Harris would be amazing!... but even if I could get into falconry I live in wet/cold state

[@trevorgorman4844]

Can a Harris Hawk see infra red. The reason I ask is because I've installed two new CCTV cameras in my Harris Hawk aviary and my male is slowly dropping tail feathers (3.5yr old) which began in late December 🤔 Is this typical behaviour or could the IR's coming on at night be triggering the molt. I live in Donegal, in the North of Ireland.

[@l.c5285]

Hey Ben, I have a question can you trap a bird for falconry in a country then move to to a different with that bird, like can you transport a bird to a different country

[@Truthhunter4life]

So what is the difference in the prey that they are capable of taking? I know people talk about Goshawks taking geese. There are a lot of species of geese world wide. Are either of these species capable of taking a Canada goose? While the goshawk was the butcher's bird back in the middle ages would it have been the Harris' hawk if it would have been available?

[@dougclark4561]

Goshawk are called Goshawk for a reason. The "gos" in goshawk is derived from the Old English word for goose. They were and are still a species known for pursuing game much larger than themselves, including geese. That fact continues to be as true now as when they were named and I know this because my own sponsor's Finnish Gos managed to take down three different Canadian geese this last season. An impressive feat, for sure; especially given the fact that my sponsor was not intentionally pursuing the geese in any of these cases. All three times, the Gos was feeling motivated and saw an opportunity different than the one my sponsor intended and chose to pursue the goose it saw rather than the ducks or upland game my sponsor was interested in. While this particular Gos has repeatedly demonstrated its ability and willingness to pursue geese, my sponsor still has no interest in pursuing geese intentionally and, where reasonably possible, he will avoid hunting in areas where there are more geese than ducks or upland game visibly present. Mostly because, while the Gos is clearly capable of taking a Canadian Goose, it always poses a significantly larger potential risk to the Gos than other typical quarry. No matter how you slice it, in a head-to-head matchup on the ground Canadian Geese are so much more massive and stronger, that the Gos is always relying purely on superior speed and instinctive tactical ability in the air to dispatch that goose. And while the instinct and speed of Gos is amazing and effective, even the most amazing raptor is not gonna be perfect 100% of the time. And the closer to the ground the Gos attacks the greater the risk to the Gos. Because the first time that Gos doesn't execute thoroughly and/or ends up riding that goose to the ground befure sufficiently disabling it, that Gos runs a real risk of getting battered halfway to death... if not all the way. So, while there may in fact, be falconers out there intentionally pursuing geese, most of the falconer's I've spoken to about geese are just not keen to make a habit of subjecting their treasured Gos to that risk.

[@Truthhunter4life]

@@dougclark4561 Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. In the research I did there is a big difference in size between most Old World geese and Canada geese.. I can see what you are saying about the risk. Still awfully cool to think about and even more so to see I am sure. Thanks again for taking the time to share.

[@viveviveka2651]

Can ravens be used like hawks and falcons? Or at least somewhat similarly? At least flown and exercised and partnered with?

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

I personally back in the late 80’s I trained a raven to follow me overhead around 80-100 feet in circles and find me rattlesnakes and gopher snakes. Then he would dive down and hop around them and attack the head with his beak. If I was fast, I would give over on time and help him dispatch the snake. But usually he had dispatch them before I got over there. Hunting snakes may sound really strange. But I was after both the meat and the skins that I would tan. Back in those days the laws were a lot looser. I do not believe that activity would be legally sanctioned these days. It was more of a “Wild West” attitude back then. Technically that does count as training a raven to hunt. The way I did it was not all that hard. I do not know of anyone else who has ever tried doing it. But I am sure other people have.

[@viveviveka2651]

@@benwoodrufffalconry Thanks. Very interesting. For some reason ravens keep fascinating me. I encounter them often in the wild. I've watched them delight in teasing dogs, very successfully. They actually seem more intelligent. Definitely quicker. And then there is Fable the raven, talking on youtube. And talking better than most parrots, even most African greys and Amazons. Birds branched off and evolved very differently from mammals, and their minds seem different. More distant and foreign. They are more like dinosaurs or aliens, and it's more fascinating to find a meeting of minds when the minds are so different. To find and be in partnership and understanding with something so different is fascinating.

[@Truthhunter4life]

@@benwoodrufffalconry very cool story. Shed hunting is a big deal and I have often wondered if it would be possible to train one of the corvids to do that.

[@justinstevens6779]

Harris on squirrel? I've heard toes are too thin and might lose one to squirrel bite. Thoughts?

[@NMFalconry]

Lots of people hunt squirrels with harris without issue.

[@freebirdofreason1994]

I Fly a Harris hawk 7 days a week, my Hawk will call me to flush an area , this happens a few times during the season, iv learnt to follow his call now. A lovely hawk, mine catches all its feed for the moult. I do let him feed up on a catch and we still fly the next day but over time we bring the weight down again , sometimes he will just keep catching and I then trade off earlier. Harris Hawks are to often thought of as a beginners hawk , they deserve more than that.

[@morphman1966]

I follow your videos and really enjoy them, you have done very well with Woody! There are a lot of people flying Harris hawks that would be out of their depth when attempting another species. They are very forgiving regarding their weight management. Harris hawks are very underrated hawks, but they do allow a lot of people to fly a hawk that would not be able to fly most other types of raptor. Keep the videos coming!

[@freebirdofreason1994]

@@morphman1966 Thank you that’s good to hear. I agree, fortunately for me, I go out often with a good friend whilst he flys Merlins and Peregrines, I have learnt so much from him, over the years . It was this guy that gave me the enthusiasm, I decided to get a Harris hawks and stick to it although I have been offered the chance to fly Merlins, I realise that this may distract from the comment to the Harris, Woody. If I did get another species, for me it would be a Sparrow Hawk. Thanks and good luck .

[@morphman1966]

@@freebirdofreason1994 My comments were in no way meant in any negative way towards yourself. You have done a great job on Woody he is truly a credit to you. Keep the videos coming and good health to you!

[@freebirdofreason1994]

@@morphman1966 I didn't see it negative, good luck and thank you 👍

[@njfalconry]

Great video

[@benjaminschabel4847]

Man i just discorvered your channel. To avoid a wall of text: Please stick to your current way how you do your videos. It is exactly how it should be, and not too common anymore these days. 20 mins lenght, packed with quality. I thank you!

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

Thank you for the input!!

[@wehahnavibus5894]

To progress as a seasoned falconer from other hawks and falcons to Harris hawks is fine, but to progress from Harris hawks as your first bird to other hawks and falcons could be a totally different experience. My take is Harris hawks are as far as falconry training is concerned in a class of their own and have often created the perception falconry is "easy", which it is more than often not.

[@morphman1966]

Very true if you learn with a Harris then you are only set up to fly a Harris, they are very forgiving. There are so many people flying Harris's that would be out of their depth when they try to fly another species.

[@nonstopadventures13]

So I live in Kentucky which bird would you recommend for here and which would you recommend for a new general falconer

[@benwoodrufffalconry]

In Kentucky I think I would choose based off of the game. If you have a lot of rabbits and squirrels as your main quarry I’d go with a Harris. But if you have a lot of good pheasant, partridge, quail and duck, I’d definitely do a gos.

[@nonstopadventures13]

@@benwoodrufffalconry ok so a Harris then ok next question is wild trapped or breeder bought thoughts

[@geoffhirschi803]

"uni" meaning once; and "cinctus" meaning girdled

[@ThatOneSnake]

I wonder how the hybrids of the two have turned out thus far.

[@morphman1966]

They have a habit of dieing when they are between six and ten months of age. They don't seen to be a compatible pairing.

[@ThatOneSnake]

@@morphman1966 That's a shame.

[@morphman1966]

@@ThatOneSnake Yes I think so too. I fly a Harris x red tail and enjoy flying him very much

[@benjamingrainger711]

Black spar x goshawk are awesome!!!

[@rrmerlin3402]

The Harris hawk is to falconry as Tiger Woods is to golf.....An explosion of interest in said sports. Why ? Harris hawk is very easy to get good hunting results.

[@TropicOfCancer1998]

so its like lions and tiger!

[@alhajimadibah9065]

Think for the eduction

[@raphlvlogs271]

Harris hawks are more akin to dogs and Goshawks are more akin to cats

[@peteranddorothybowles5428]

Don't get a goss unless you've flown a few other breeds first They aint no harris to train FOR SURE

[@richardbrown6278]

Harris's hawks do great in east Tennessee on squirrel and rabbet

[@solventtrapdotcom6676]

Bah... I want a Harris' Hawk that has the relentlessness of an Accipiter.

[@benjamingrainger711]

I think buiteodies goshawks are bigger than finish Ben

[@NMFalconry]

Buteoides is a subspecies. Finnish is a region of origin. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Three subspecies are found in Finland: A. g. gentilis across most of the country, A. g. buteoides in Lapland, and A. g. moscoviae in SW Finland.

[@Sergio-rk3zd]

Harris uninctus unicinctus, para mi mucho mejor que el Harris unicinctus harrissi