Fallout And Wasteland

I talk about the influence of Wasteland (1988) on Fallout (1997), both made at Interplay.
Videos I reference:
The Biggest Influences On Fallout • The Biggest Influences...

[@OscarFowler]

The gulf in technology between an 80's PC game and in a 90's PC game was vast compared to that between a 2010's PC game and a 2020's PC game. I don't think most people realize that.

[@jordansullivan1381]

Oh it has to be common sense at this point. Look at waste land and Fallout one. I think it's a five year difference? 1988-1994? Now look at say Remake and rebirth. 7 years a part. You can't even see the difference. We're reading a Null point where graphics really no longer matter. You can't sell a game on graphics anymore because jo smoe down the street can do it. Even indie games mabe by 10 people in their uncles garage is starting to rival something it took 50 or 90 people to make in the early 2000s.

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

@@jordansullivan1381 You can absolutely see a big difference between Remake and Rebirth. But compared to 1988 games and 1994 games, Remake and Rebirth are essentially the same. The biggest differences are subtle or semi-transparent - things like Rebirth's larger environments, more populated environments, more complex and detailed environments, faster texture loading and many other things. These things are invisible to players. For anyone who doubts this, consider: Are the environments in Remake smaller and less complex than the environments in Rebirth because the developers, when making Remake, had an artistic vision that only needed environments of a certain size? Did they just not need large and complex environments? No - we can tell by the framerate and texture loading that they're pushing the PS4 as hard as it will go. But that's something the player can't see directly.

[@DoctorFurioso]

16 colours to 256 colours is a huge jump when you get right down to it. Same with sampled wav audio, CD storage, etc.

[@OscarFowler]

@@DoctorFurioso And resolution doubled or tripled at the same time. And that jump was immediately obvious and immediately expanded the kinds of games that could be made. The benefits of going from 1K to 2K or 2K to 4K are good, but not similarly revolutionary.

[@Pangloss6413]

My favorite era of gaming is the late 2000s and early 2010s when things are starting to look very realistic but not quite, think call of duty black ops 1 for example

[@fixpontt]

Wasteland 3 has robot Ronald Reagan and Fallout does not! 💀

[@PvtHudson]

you get his car too

[@ouroldhouse3674]

Sounds like something out of Futurama

[@FluffySylveonBoi]

I don't know that person tbh.

[@Teabone3]

​@@FluffySylveonBoi President.

[@alikeremozfidan288]

yet...

[@aNerdNamedJames]

Honestly think it's healthy that the team had people who disliked Wasteland in addition to the people who loved it. Diversity of ideas can really help teamwork based creative projects.

[@VisualOrchestra]

Finished Wasteland on the Commodore 64. Great game and also completed Fallout 1 and 2 when they released. Everything Fallout after New Vegas has personally been disappointing but to each thier own.

[@Shakes346]

Tim describing old games reminds me of the agony of config.sys and autoexec.bat tailoring it took to get some games to run. I forgot how frustrating that could be sometimes.

[@saulitix]

I see people online saying that Fallout is a "spiritual sequel" of Wasteland and I feel like that's such an overstatement.

[@TheGreatestJediOfAllTime]

I see it. The spiritual sequel to Dragon Age Origins, at least to me, is Baldurs Gate 3.

[@pretendsushi2929]

A spiritual successor doesn't necessarily have to be similar to it's predecessor, just kind of a jumping off point. For example, system shock and bioshock are very different, but bioshock is the spiritual successor to system shock

[@JonathanRossRogers]

That idea came from Interplay marketing.

[@marcosdgonzalez5270]

Make fallout 1 and 2 remake pleaseeee 😢😢😢

[@hectorj.romanp.]

I played a portion of Wasteland when I had GamePass and I didn't like it.

[@MichaelWyattMDW]

For decades, I thought the only reason Fallout existed was because you couldn't get the rights to make Wasteland 2. Now I know that I've been so wrong for so long. . .

[@nowayjosedaniel]

Wrong but also right.

[@Cdfaw]

This was my exact thought, I believed this since fallout 2 came out in 1998

[@sushestvobezvolnoe]

There is a myth that Brian Fargo hated EA and didn't cancel Fallout because EA was developing Wasteland 2 and that EA was developing wasteland 2 because they did hate Brian Fargo. There is a second rumour that this is the reason why Fallout didn't get the GURPS license.

[@bruceschlickbernd8475]

⁠@@sushestvobezvolnoeWasteland 2 - the Electronic Arts version - had no input from Interplay. The producer (who had exactly two inputs into Wasteland while I was working on it) for EA (Dave Albert) decided he now knew how to design games (he didn’t). Thankfully, at the last minute, EA lost its nerve and any pretense that Fountain of Dreams was a Wasteland sequel was dropped. All of us breathed a sigh of relief, especially when it bombed (as I said, Dave Albert didn’t know how to design games - though one could see at least some technical similarities). Fargo never expressed any hatred of EA that I know of - I very much doubt he would want to burn any bridges with them.

[@DanielFerreira-ez8qd]

@@sushestvobezvolnoe well according to Tim, the reason they lost the GURPS license is because Steve Jackson didn't like several key aspects of Fallout. They didn't want to budge, so they lost the GURPS license and changed some things around.

[@magnaquam]

Wasteland was my all time favorite game as a kid. When Fallout came out I was obsessed with it. I saw the “nods and similarities “ between the two but in no way have I ever though Fallout was ever derivative of Wasteland. Similar DNA but different game experiences.

[@CainOnGames]

"Similar DNA but different game experiences." I like that statement. It's hard to explain to some people that there was an influence, but not as much as they think. For those on the team that played and liked Wasteland, of course they were influenced by the elements they enjoyed. But the team had a lot of influences, including books, movies, and other games.

[@SAMagic]

​@@CainOnGames "Spiritual successor" then ... to a point. 😉

[@matthewwp326]

Hi Tim, I don’t know if you have or won’t answer this question since you are being paid by Obsidian for consultation on the Outer Worlds 2, but what is your opinion on Gamepass and subscriptions like Gamepass. Does being on Gamepass hurt sales? Does being on Gamepass make it easier to market the game and find a larger audience? Thanks for all the videos!

[@queengames8421]

Interesting to hear that even 9 years after release, wasteland was incredibly hard to actually play. I think we often underestimate just how good we have it today; I can play a lot of games from 20 years ago without much issue as long as I have the right console.

[@JPH1138]

Yeah, I remember being shocked discovering that I couldn't replay games that I'd bought four years earlier in the early 2000s. Now advancement is a lot slower, devs put some thought into backwards compatibility and fan-made emulators are everywhere you can play just about every game made on a modern PC. It's great.

[@jimmym3352]

You can even play Wasteland 1 today. I remember playing a little bit since it came with Wasteland 2 on Steam. I admit I didn't play that much, just up to Highpool.

[@UToobUsername01]

@@jimmym3352 I bought wasteland 1 remastered on xbox. Whoah, graphics were utter shit in the old days..

[@queengames8421]

@@jimmym3352 I really do need to try it. I unfortunately bought Wasteland 2 on Switch, which does not seem come with a playable Wasteland 1.

[@neety7]

In the past month or so I got SO MUCH into the Fallout. When I saw Fallout's 1 vibe, characters, storytelling I knew I had to play it. Now I've played Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Fallout 4 and watched the TV show. Love the franchise and defenitely staying with it for a longer time. Greetings from Poland.

[@hobosox]

Make sure you play New Vegas. It is more of a sequel to Fallout 2 than 3 is.

[@neety7]

@@hobosox currently playing it 😉

[@Lonelywookiee]

​@neety7 I put in over 100+ hrs in FO3 when it came out and only recently played and beat NV for the first time when the show came out. If you're playing on PC, google 'Tale of Two Wastelands' if you've never heard of it. It's a mod where it combines FO3 with NV. I'm playing it now and oohhhh boy it's fucking amazing. With the mods TTW has, FO3 feels like such a better game and I can't wait to finish it and start running around the Mojave.

[@Zowimir]

I think there is something in the Polish soul that likes this kind of grim yet absurd and humorous world. Awesome to see that the fandom is growing. Pozdrawiam byq!

[@vansdan.]

​@neety7 good :) came here to say you need to play it! its the best!

[@blackmesacake5361]

I will always wonder what Fallout would be like today if Interplay hadnt been forced to sell.

[@BuzzKirill3D]

You could take a look at the Van Buren project. It's an unfinished alpha of Interplay's Fallout 3

[@blackmesacake5361]

@BuzzKirill3D oh yea I know about Van Buren, idk how it would have done or if it would have been canceled no matter what, but I wonder if Fallout would even be around anymore today.

[@beeg8615]

Would have gone the way of the dodo I guess, lmfao.

[@blackmesacake5361]

@@beeg8615 🤣

[@mattvolonte9026]

​@@beeg8615 Pretty much lol. Although it would be nice to see a new game with the classic style, even if it's a smaller project compared to FO1 and FO2. I need to check one of those total conversion mods sometime.

[@bchin4005]

Ahhh, the floating coprocessor unit, the lack of which forced me to play the Fallout demo on the computers at my college theater offices.

[@whatdoiposthere]

I remember my dad getting really excited at seeing Brian Fargo's name in the Fallout 1 intro because he was such a big Wasteland fan. So that's neat!

[@BadBob18]

I like Tim, but clearly Fallout rips offs a ton from Wasteland. Clearly Brian Fargo had some influence on what was in Fallout.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

@@BadBob18 Brian chose the name.

[@hughmann9568]

​@BadBob18 you can't rip off your own shit. 😂 At the end of the day the company owns all the assets.

[@dudexyt]

I really enjoyed Wasteland in the early 90s and beat the game. When I got to try Fallout, I did miss having a big party to explore the world but I saw that there was multiple solutions to a quest. I did like all the nods to Wasteland, and even the new lore. I even liked that there was robot death machines towards the end of Fallout. The most important aspect that was preserved in Fallout wasn’t the game mechanics but the bits of humor sprinkled through out the game. In the 90s reading descriptive text helped wasteland feel a bit more immersive, considering that in that era, most RPGs had very little descriptions. Fallout 1 and 2 were great games. But after Fallout 2, I did wish to see a modern party based game, and that was only realized in early 2010s with Wasteland 2.

[@ThePyroSquirrel1]

I’ve finally found the water chip in fallout, all that’s left is confronting the master! The fallout experience is really special especially having never visited the first game but watching the show made me want to check it out

[@antoniodeodilonbrito7643]

Fallout 1 is one of my favorite games of all time! It is so great to see new people wanting to try out the original game, and end up understanding its magic, after watching the show! Be sure to eventually do another playthrough as a low intelligence character though - it’s so funny!! 😂😂😂

[@BuzzKirill3D]

The Master doesn't come directly after the chip. (Damn spoilers!) But glad you're playing it. I'mma be honest, when I first played it as a kid in the very early 2000s, I thought it looked pretty bad 😅 Even then! Of course, I've since come to appreciate its unique aesthetic, but it can definitely be a hurdle for newer players

[@nowayjosedaniel]

​@BuzzKirill3D The gfx & UX of Fallout 1 & 2 are total dogcrap. End of discussion. It's more of a Mountain that has to be climbed than a small hurdle in a race. The irony is Underrail thought it was a good idea to take all the horrible UX and 1990's UI from Fallout and use it in a game. Also ironic bc Underrail is nothing like Fallout except the bad outdated engine parts. Atom RPG is the fallout-like modern remake. Underrail has serious design flaws bc the designer is genuinely poor (unskilled or incompetent) in most design areas. It is still fun, but it is its own game not at all like fallout, and that UX is clownish in modern times.

[@nowayjosedaniel]

I didnt mention underrail's gfx bc I dont blame indies who cant have real artists. They make do. Unless I am wrong and they had a real artist (lmfao).

[@bsherman8236]

Games from that time are really special, be sure to check deus ex, vtmb and morrowind

[@Garnansoa]

The Fallout community is so spoiled to have someone like Tim to give us answers to our questions.

[@H0VA]

Tim just wants to do it in his spare time. Its not a question of spoiled or not.

[@Garnansoa]

@@H0VA what

[@ozancobanoglu812]

Hi Tim

[@bryanmoraski7005]

I was obsessed with Wasteland on my Commodore 64. God I'm getting old.

[@JadeStone00]

Same. But we had a bootleg copy (parents wouldn't allow us to buy games) and no paragraph book. We somehow got all the way through until we had to escape Base Cochise, but without the book we didn't know that we had a time limit. We wandered around and explored, trying to draw out our enjoyment of the end game, and got so distracted by our excitement that we forgot to disk-swap...long story short, we overwrote our only master for disk 4 and locked ourselves out of being able to actually escape within the step limit 😭 It took 10 years before my brother was grown enough to get his hands on a copy that would run on an emulator...and by then, we had Fallout to play! We did go back and finish Wasteland individually, and I played the heck out of 2 and 3, but I think my brother just converted to Fallout and never looked back.

[@bryanmoraski7005]

@@JadeStone00 Oh God ! The paragraph books. How could I forget. LOL

[@Olafmikli]

The frame limited thing also comes up with Fallout. Map trave is too fast unpatchedl and the reset time of Force Fields in the military base is based on CPU cycles which makes them turn back on the moment after you disable them.

[@CainOnGames]

I knew about the map travel issue but not the force fields. Add those to the list of things in the remake, if it’s ever made.

[@btothea5641]

I like how much you downplay Brian Fargo’s involvement so you can be labeled “Fallout 1’s creator” despite it saying “BRIAM FARGO PRESENTS” when you boot up Fallout.

[@dindindundun8211]

You have a great, unique voice - like an American Ringo Star. You should narrate an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine!

[@gourdbox]

Tim do you have any thoughts on Twilight2000? Did you ever play it? I’ll hold my opinion on the mechanics but back when I was a teen I was obsessed and engrossed in the setting and theme of it.

[@Dr.Quarex]

Agreed, the setting was awesome, but damn it is hard to play the CRPG version

[@Dr.Quarex]

I mean Brian Fargo frequently talked in the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter era about how he made Fallout because he could not make Wasteland 2 originally, which undoubtedly made people assume it was more of a real sequel than it was, but he also made it clear they made sure to steer clear of any direct copying to avoid any intellectual property issues with Electronic Arts. Obviously I am not explaining this to you Tim but others reading, haha

[@KeiNovak]

Thanks for the clarification on this historical tidbit.

[@marcosdgonzalez5270]

Wasteland 2 and 3 great gamess

[@gpcube]

I love Wasteland 2 and 3. I hope we get a 4. A downside of inXile being bought by Microsoft is they halted work on VR stuff, which they were doing great things with, and it dashed my hopes for a Wasteland VR game. Too bad Sony didn't acquire them instead, if they had to be bought.

[@sinhelproductions]

I played wasteland back in the day on a Commodore 128. Man that's been so long ago.

[@MichaelWyattMDW]

I had it on the Commodore 64!

[@BuzzKirill3D]

I didn't finish Wasteland. Despite being pretty committed to it, the grind and the difficulty eventually wore me down. But definitely had fun at certain points. The fully text-based combat was more fun than I anticipated.

[@Jaqinta]

I didn't play Wasteland 1 but on Wasteland 2 and esspecially on Wasteland 3 i strongly suggest you to play it , i really enjoyed it a lot :)

[@CinemaMack]

I'm starting my stream for Wasteland Remastered tonight. Very excited to play it.

[@holycowitsdave]

Hey Tim Totally understand if this question doesn’t fit the purpose of this channel, but from my own curiosity... I was wondering if there were any interpretations of your games you'd seen from people that were almost embarrassingly wrong. I'm thinking on the level of like, if someone had said "Fallout is a game about how society would be better off living in secluded bunkers that never talk to each other."

[@Carnage1138]

Will we ever get a detailed video on your thoughts on Fallout 3, 4, and 76?

[@EpicPrawn]

Hey Tim, you have mentioned in some interviews and conversations the game Ur-Quan Masters being an influence for Fallout, but if I'm remembering right it didn't make the cut for the video The Biggest Influences On Fallout. I don't think you've talked about UQM on your channel yet. I'm wondering if you'd be willing to talk more about the game generally and how it has impacted your career in game design.

[@TheDiner50]

Frame rate depended... Can you belive that games into the 2010's where still made like that? I mean by "AAA" sized studios? Last I heard of something like that was a racing game with cops. It might be NFS? I do not remember. Even if it was not frame rate depended it was a awful bad game. 30FPS on PC. And if you try and play it at 60fps the cars go completly Turbo mode. XD Fallout 4/76... Look down in a online game and you magically run faster! That is... Fallout 76 right. Mafia 3 launched with a 30fps limit too on PC. With the devs saying on forums that 60fps would brake the game... Even now it could not get more broken then it was at launch! Mafia 2 and 3 'definitive editons' are even more buggy then the final updated games! It still seems bonkers to me how at any point a game was made without considering that CPU clock speeds would impact the code and so game execution. Like not even a frame/tick limit??? Like people good enough to program a game must also be able to see how a application like a game would not get much better loading speeds if the game logic is also going to be running 5x the intended speed. Might aswell cap the hole execution speed if you are to tie it up to being execution speed dependent. Even back in the early computer days was it a known fact that the CPU execution speeds are only going to improve over time. Anyone coding on a computer would have not been able to not notice that. It was one of the major selling points a new computer back then! What CPU you would have. And at what clock speed it would be able to execute... Played Mafia 1 the original on a old Thinkpad laptop. Such a slow computer for the day meant for word documents and office work was still fast enough to be playing proper 3d games that ones where expecting you to have a dedicated gaming computer. More or less. Duke Nukem etc etc. Fallout 1-2. Yea. It was very amusing and a good excuse to play Mafia 1 on that hunk of HDD slow ass potato laptop. It even had 2 cores! Such a marvel of a machine. 4GB of ram. More then a 480p inbuilt screen! Such a fabulus mobile machine for Mafia 1 and some Duke Nukem! And yet it would not run Don't Starv right. ;) Never tried Terraria on it even. Let alone Java Minecraft.

[@ArterHWTD]

Ну так-то у всех, кто хотел, была маленькая программка, позволяющая в фоне замедлять скорость игры и спокойно играть в Wasteland без этих проблем. Другое дело, что на тот момент только самые большие ценители компьютерных игр и стилистики постапокалипсиса играли в Wasteland. Насчёт квеста с мальчиком и собакой, меня всегда бесило, что нет возможности отбрехаться, нет возможности дать ему щелбана и сдать родителям, можно просто убежать от этого малолетнего дурачка, который всё равно будет с маниакальным упорством преследовать группу. Я понимаю, что компьютеры того времени позволяли не так много, но этот квест слишком куцый в возможностях манёвра.

[@UToobUsername01]

I think it did influence because both games are influenced by post apoc movies like Mad Max and A Boy and His Dog. Basically videogames rip off movies and then movies adapt videogames to make movie adaptations. In the same way Diablo influenced Borderlands because of the loot mechanics. Just because people didn't play a game in depth doesn't mean they are not influenced by the earlier stuff. They are subconsciously influenced by it because of this constant ripping off of ideas that goes on in pop culture. (example Hideo Kojima rips off Escape From New York for his protagonist in Metal Gear) Duke Nukem 3D rips off Army of Darkness for quotes and the movie They Live. We movie watchers and genre fans can't be fooled by you Tim. We consume a lot of pop culture so we see the references everywhere. Would you say the arcade game Contra was influenced by action movies starring Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Sqwarzenegger? The two characters resemble these two 1980's icons. So in similar way, movies like Mad MAx and A Boy And His Dog influenced Wasteland and Fallout. If those two games are similar its because the people involved watched post apoc movies or read novels. It's a subconscious ripping off of other people's work, not a conscious ripping off. Remember: the creators of the games don't have to explicitly say they are influenced by something before it becomes true. (in fact they are likely not to do so or else risk legal problems) We can SEE the influences ourselves. One example is the character of Andore in the Final Fight games. Capcom do not say in interviews its a rip off of the Wrestler Andre The Giant because it can get them into legal trouble. Same with the character of Balrog who looks just like Mike Tyson. If they don't say they are influenced by things they see, doesn't mean they are not influenced by it. We don't need them to say it for it to be true. Telling people that Duke Nukem is quoting lines from Army of Darkness and They Live is not necessary since if you watch the movies you already know what Duke Nukem got his line from since the game is meant to parody the action movies of the past. That is why I think subconsciously Fallout is still influence by Wasteland since Wasteland is influenced by movies. If wasteland took ideas from movies, then fallout by extension is influienced since it also references stuff from Wasteland (The Rangers) which links it to post apoc flicks that a lot of people would have seen before these two games came out. A lot of games take inspiration from popular movies. Something that a lot of people who make games DO admit but it's not necessary for them to say it for that to be true. Artist and creative people rip off each other no matter the medium.

[@Jaqinta]

9:13 .. Post Apocalyptic United States . Hello Mr. Tim Cain for this sentence of yours i just wondering , if in different timeline everything went ok and somehow you've get some excitement to make sequel to your first Fallout game , would you thinking of implement remenants of the United States Of America goverment into your story . Thanks .

[@oditeomnes]

This is how younger generation views Fallout 1 and 2. They have a difficult and clunky interface that are noticeable when I go back to them. Thus I have to thank Xcom: Enemy unknown for innovating isometric UI and Wasteland 3 for building up a post apocalyptic game based on it, as it is the game that scratches my fallout itch.

[@stroiman.development]

I remember having a DOS program that would deliberately waste CPU cycles to help play older non-frame-limited games on my 386

[@williamwallace3780]

I remember getting One Must Fall: 2097. That was a 1994 game. Not sure when I got it but it must have only been a few years later. My computer couldn't run it properly: too fast. Beat the game button-mashing but there was no enjoyment in it.

[@rookandrole25]

Hi Tim! I was wondering if you could go over why Fallout ended up losing the GURPS licence? I think you touched upon it in a few other videos, but I might have missed it!

[@suejak1]

Hi Tim. You, Chris Avellone, and Josh Sawyer are (rightly or wrongly) something like royalty for fans of Interplay, BIS, and Obsidian RPGs. I was listening to your talk at the 2012 GDC and I noticed you actually said Fallout development started at roughly the same time as Planescape Torment (!). This surprised me because I thought of Avellone as somewhat "inheriting" Fallout duty at BIS after you left, so I thought of him as being almost like your offspring, not a contemporary. Did you guys have any cool interactions in a game design or development context that would make a good story you can tell us? :-)

[@VK-sz4it]

Not to diminish huge impact of Tim, F2 is generally loved more and regarded as overall better game then F1, thus Avelone is praised. New Vegas is probably best Fallout game - thus praise to Josh Sawyer.

[@Mirokuofnite]

Should give props to John Gonzalez for New Vegas.

[@VK-sz4it]

​@@Mirokuofnite For some reason I thought that Chris Avolone was the director, but he directed dlcs.

[@JavierBonnemaison]

​@VK-sz4it perhaps more people played Fallout 2 than the original, for the same reasons that more people have played the Bethesda titles (more brand recognition and bigger market), but what evidence do you have that people that played both FO and FO2 like 2 better? I finished and loved 1 and couldn't finish 2 (although I played 1 when it came out and 2 much later from GOG, so the UX barrier may have had something to do with it). In general, sequels are not better than the original, they just sell better due to having more visibility.

[@Mirokuofnite]

@@VK-sz4it Chris Avellone had a relatively small hand in Fallout 2. He was going to have a bigger role in the canceled Fallout 3. His major work is basically the Fallout Bible and three of the New Vegas story DLCs. Mark O'Green, Feargus Urquhart, and Matthew J. Norton are the people you want to thank for Fallout 2.

[@flamingburritto]

Have you ever talked about Wasteland 3 Tho? Or will you ever talk about it? (ik you don't like to "review" games but I'm genuinely curious to see your thoughts on it. Cuz to me Wasteland 3 felt like OG fallout but brought to a more modern time)

[@majorstrelok1754]

Hey Tim, I have a question about music progression in Fallout. I am planning to start a table top campaign set in Fallout, and I got to wondering about the music I should play. I was planning on adding more music to the background, so I was wondering if Rock and Roll progress past Elvis.

[@liamwaddleton]

Thanks for making videos like this - it always answers questions I didn't know I had. Vegas Ranger made a video about Wasteland's influence on the New Vegas design for the rangers. Was wondering what your thoughts were? kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2LNmJeXbqqEhMksi=VS5JvcQ90swN5JFc

[@patasan2]

I hear the original Fallout plan involved time travel, dinosaurs and what not. If that's the case, any chance the huge dinosaur footprint we find in Fallout 1 is a nod to that? Or other stuff like Jurassic Park, Godzilla..?

[@sensorialtoe]

Tim, I can’t begin to thank you enough for your creative vision and the games that you helped inspire and have made and also for these videos. I don’t work in the games industry but I do work corporate America and I’ve used lessons from your videos to help build bridges and connect with people I didn’t think would be possible. Thank you for being transparent and thank you for your words of wisdom!❤

[@2HeadedHero]

I really love hearing all these stories about the early days of Fallout. Thanks!

[@aikidoss]

I would ask Did Brian Fargo being directly involved in both games bring over any influence from Wasteland to Fallout?

[@wesss9353]

Hey uncle Tim When is it copyright infringement or an homage? And can't every story boil down the the Illiad?

[@VictorRink-p1q]

Question: how do you design a player interaction involving a "warning" to work as intended; i.e. letting the player know what to do next versus it's too dangerous to go there? For example, in Fallout I believe you're warned against going to the radscorpion cave, but you're supposed to go there. In Pillars of Eternity, early on you're told about a bear cave and warned not to go there; if you go there when you first hear about it, you will not do well, so that was a real warning.

[@Chedring]

Can you touch more on the styles and architectural influences on all your games? I personally like Fallout's art deco and brutalist take with 50s flare over the more googie style the later games took.

[@lopa-u9f]

yeah, Fallout 1, 2, and tactics have an aesthetic atmosphere feel to them that is totally lost in 3 and onward that to me makes them feel like mockeries or soulless pretenders that just didn't get it

[@chrisschumacher8553]

Do you know if the New Vegas creators were aware of the part of the Wasteland manual which noted that Las Vegas survived the war intact, and there was just had an ominous explanation of "The house always wins."?

[@Spootiful]

It always makes me wonder why some are so repulsed by inspiration and influence, as if not being unique or original enough makes your designs and your work less worthy or less creative.

[@kizoaoy7423]

Can you beat Fallout 2 as Scotchmo from Wasteland? One drunk ass dude with a shotgun vs the freak of nature Frank Horrigan

[@csirkis777]

Here because of "How to Drink." Love Fallout and didn't know you had a channel.

[@john_blues]

Come on, Tim. You guys didn't have a Commodore 64 laying around to play Wasteland on?

[@GertSterner]

Everything builds on something else. It is natural. Just like nature.

[@armamentarmedarm1699]

Weren't there programs for slowing down games like that? I have vague recollections of this.

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

So you're saying it was a big influence compared to something like the road warrior?

[@skeletonbuyingpealts7134]

Well Fallout is based on 50s futurism and Wasteland is 80s futurism, so I guess we need to split the difference with 60s and 70s futurism. Blaxpootation here we come!

[@VK-sz4it]

Yet in Fallout "bad guys" is China which is more modern.

[@Jwlar]

@@VK-sz4itit was the logical course for a Communist enemy in 2077. China had far more potential than Russia (based on resources and manpower alone) to become the stronger Communist superpower. By 1994 (when FO released), Soviet Russia had already collapsed too. It would make no sense to have them as an enemy for a game which had the bombs fall another 70 years later. Sure, the time divergence may have caused Russia to maintain its Soviet course, but it doubt it with the resource wars.

[@brianreddeman951]

I remember talking to Fergus about Wasteland ages and ages ago. He had the same summary about fallout and wasteland. He never said he didn't or did like it. Thank you for sharing, Tim!

[@timmygilbert4102]

Much needed recorded oral history by Tim Cain

[@-burak.k-2029]

Hi Tim I did a quick look to see if you made a video on this topic but I really wanted to get your opinion on Fallout tactics, if you see it as a canon in the fallout universe and if you know any of the design and development on that particular game.

[@bruceschlickbernd8475]

Edit in: not sure why this is showing up twice, but if I delete one, I’m afraid I’ll delete the other. So, if you have gotten to this twice, sorry. From the Wasteland end of things: Interplay had a total of nine full time employees at the time. Ken St. Andre and Mike Stackpole were independent designers who did their work up front and then pretty much did nothing more. A few temps were brought in to do map coding (Bill “Weez” Dugan - Interplay’s unofficial pet, mascot and hanger-on - Stance Nixon, and I don’t remember how to correctly spell Nisshan Hossepian’s name, so sorry to him in advance), Todd Camasta animations, but by and large once we got to the beta phase, the only two people working on it were Alan Pavlish and myself. Not a lot of resources compared to Fallout. And Fallout is not Wasteland - Fallout has its own setting, story, and backstories. Whatever it learned from Wasteland, it took them and ran with them its own way. Two warring licenses, especially after so much of its own setting had been developed, would not have been good, especially since the one existing one pushed its control too far as it was. So, a few homages to Wasteland I’m happy with, some nods that it was influential on game design theory, but I don’t need Wasteland to usurp the creative genius of Fallout. Nine years down the line was a long time for what home computers could do. Scott Campbell, Scott Bennie, and Chris Taylor all expressed (to me, at least) how much they loved Wasteland, and that’s all you can do - affect the people of the time.

[@CainOnGames]

Well said, Bruce.

[@bruceschlickbernd8475]

@@CainOnGames Well, I’m glad at least one person reads my comments. ;-)

[@thedeepend6407]

Well this has debunked one of the longest running myths in video game history. Crazy that the whole "rights" story gets passed around still when it really had next to nothing to do with it.

[@Zowimir]

Not gonna watch it after the 4th minute, to not get spoiled, as I bought Wasteland on GOG and will play it in the coming weeks! Can't wait And Fallout waits for a replay ❤ Yay

[@plaidchuck]

Good to hear you talk more about this. For years the narrative was that Fallout was supposed to be wasteland 2 but they just couldnt get the rights.

[@flakeyboy7009]

hi tim, i know you have a huge love for chocolate, but what are some of your favorite drinks???

[@cwalser544]

Original Fallout is still too hard to play. It's awesome but hard.

[@m.duquesnay7603]

Tim, did you play Wasteland and what was your experience with it?

[@mitchryan85]

I should give Wasteland another try. Last time I tried playing it I kinda hated it and thought it aged like milk.

[@danvsclips8326]

I'd like you to look over the fan-made lists of cut content, add your knowledge

[@MrSuperalan99]

so asking if fallout was inspired by wasteland is like asking if destiny was inspired by halo

[@DuneRunnerEnterprises]

I did try to play it... The Wastland 2. Couldn't..

[@DinoKaijiu]

How much did you guys made for fallout after release? And earned?

[@nicetomato7573]

These are such enjoyable videos to listen to. You need a podcast

[@CalebByRamen]

Great video Tim. Always love hearing your perspective and breakdown on games and development.

[@zohaas]

Did you play Wasteland 2/3? Did you like it?

[@glenn9k]

What is your opinion on Wasteland 2 vs Wasteland 3?

[@AlexRoivas]

Hey Tim, do you remember what the total budget of Fallout 1 was when the game was shipped in 1997? always wondered how much did Interplay spent making one of my favorite games ever.

[@CainOnGames]

Three million

[@H0VA]

Wasteland 1 needs either a source port or some type of remake

[@BadBob18]

So, Brian Fargo had no say in the original Fallout?

[@liwojenkins]

Try to tell me the movie "A Boy and His Dog" didn't have at least as much influence as Wasteland. He called his dog "Dogmeat" in the movie. There was a lot of really good post apoc material to draw from back then.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

Now, if the dog in fallout could talk...

[@jekubb4348]

so, I have a question, and anyone can answer! hoping Tim answers himself but in the tv show its revealed vault tec dropped the bombs but coming from the games and knowing what I think I know! it was China! and I've seen the interview Tim did with mantis where he says it was indeed China but still kind of leaves it to interpretation! as someone who loves the lore and history of the games, I'm a bit confused! I'm of the mindset that if Tim said it was China, then that's what it is but still, I'm confused lol! and I also seen that Jonathan Nolan said the show was canon!?

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

I think in the show, Vault-Tec revealed their willingness to do it, but I think they got caught out by China and could only strike back.

[@GameingGooses]

I thought it was interesting how you mention some members of the team not liking Wasteland. That doesn't necessarily mean that Wasteland wasn't influential on them. I was thinking about this topic recently with regards to influences on my writing. We typically think of positive influences, but if you dislike something in another game and try to deliberately avoid those elements, then it is still having an influence on you. It would be interesting to hear about what they specifically disliked in Wasteland, and if that played into development on Fallout. I'm not necessarily saying they were deliberately avoiding using any specific elements, sometimes you just generally don't like something. I'm just pointing out how thinking about our creative influences sometimes biases us towards pointing out those things we wanted to replicate, rather than things we tried to avoid.

[@CainOnGames]

You’re right. That’s why I say the answer to whether Wasteland was influential is yes and no. I’m not certain what elements of Fallout were because someone on the team tried to emulate or avoid similar elements in Wasteland.

[@GameingGooses]

@@CainOnGames Language does get kind of imprecise when trying to discuss individual creativity in the context of a group project like a video game. 😄 Thanks for the response!

[@starcitizen6651]

I had wasteland on the C-64

[@tfdingo33]

Hi Tim it's me everyone

[@supasayajinbone]

Fallout fan here never played the outer worlds is it similar to starfiled or better

[@THEEJONESY]

better

[@AintPopular]

Interesting

[@cliqist]

I always enjoyed the idea of Wasteland more than the game itself. Although, Wasteland 3 was really great, and it'd be amazing to see a Fallout game in the same engine/style. Ahh dreams!

[@whiteguy_420]

Stay real Cain

[@schitzoflink8612]

Hi Tim

[@houseofosborne1173]

Hello Tim!

[@Alfwin]

I've always wanted to play through Wasteland; it sounds like fun - but, I've never been able to really get into it. I've tried a couple times, but hardly ever make any progress. Ah, well, at least I can replay Fallout and Fallout 2 again and again!

[@bhorza]

I played Wasteland on PC when it released, and I went through all the chips...8086/8088, 286-486, Pentiums (although it was Mechwarrior 2 that got me to upgrade to a Pentium)...I loved Wasteland, and I loved when you finished it, you could start the adventure over, keeping your levels and gear, and then have a romping good time just destroying shit as you rolled through the game. I remember wondering why there wasn't a sequel for a good part of the early 90s and was so excited by the "spiritual successor" coming out soon with Fallout. Ahh...sweet nostalgia.

[@pretendsushi2929]

Does anyone know if Tim actually worked on NV? I haven't been able to find information on that

[@CainOnGames]

I did not

[@pretendsushi2929]

@@CainOnGames HOLY SHIT TIM CAIN REPLIED TO ME Why is that? Were you not with Obsidian at the time?

[@martinez206045]

@Tim -Which do you see as a more accurate spiritual successor to Fallout 1&2: the Wasteland 2 & 3 or Fallout 3&4 (I'm not counting New Vegas or 76 since the first is not made by Beth and the second one is .... something, just not really related to the Fallout I know).