False Narratives and Weak Sources: Plural Marriage for Children pt 2

[@StompMom5]

You can't teach family proclamation and polygamy. They contradict each other. Thank you Michelle!! It's a miracle you've been doing this for a while so we could be ready for this year👌

[@JoySoul73]

This is so disturbing to me. Thank you, Michelle, for addressing this. I pray often for the brethren to see the truth about this false doctrine. 🙏

[@tgaty5378]

Why would the current 15 “apostles” defend the disastrous position that Joseph Smith “lied publicly” about bleeping 14 year-old girls!!!! Please stop defending the horrible lie that God ever commanded or would ever command sexual slavery!!!!

[@3thingsfishing427]

Read the William Law journals. They were contemporary to D&C 132 and clearly reference it. You can also read the one edition of the Nauvoo Expositor, which was also contemporary with D&C 132 and talks about it. We don't get any more information from the Nauvoo Expositor because Joseph Smith was against free speech and had the place ransacked and burned down.

[@NanetteONeal]

Thank you again, Michelle, for all you do. The way the church is moving forward with normalizing an abomination has me so upset that I don't even recognize it anymore.

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

This work you're doing is so important. Polygamy is on the rise in America right now... so this is very timely. It's the god of polygamy that other Christians point to as proof that the LDS worship a different god.

[@kristinecase8602]

Thanks so much! This is very important!

[@jennyforyourthoughts]

Seems like the writers of this lesson were lazy learners 🥴

[@MichelleBStone]

LOL I needed that 😂

[@connectionstochrist700]

Thank you Michelle!

[@tgaty5378]

This is a wonderfully fact-evincing episode! Bless you Michelle for exposing the whoredom of polygamy!!!

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

We need a visual timeline showing the process, proving that Joseph wouldn't have EVER asked that question because he already knew it was an abomination. Has anyone created one? If not, I'll see if I can make one.

[@MichelleBStone]

Like that was actually going to be the second part of my anniversary episode. I have made one, but I would love to see what other people with as well.

[@haroldpeterson7106]

Joseph did not raise up seed through polygamy!

[@RivercrestLodging]

Michelle The depth of your research is 1000x’s deeper than that of these lessons that the church is trying to desensitize the youth with. This may very well be a shot fired over the bow to you and your research and the people who get inspired by your research. IMO this will be one of those things the church regrets teaching someday. And in 20 years when they realize this teaching is harmful and wrong there will be a whole new group of young adults saying “That’s not what the church taught me growing up” The amount of mental gymnastics needed on both sides of this coin is crazy. If you step back and actually look at this overstep by the church you may see that eventually it’s going to be an another self inflicted problem they will need to address in the future.

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

Saints is such a horrible series. Not only is it riddled with inaccuracies, but I was put off by how dumbed down the literature was. Badly written. I thought it was for adults, but it's written at a 3rd-grade reading level. I couldn't even finish the 1st book it was so awful. If they were going to take the time to write an accurate, new version for modern readers you'd think they'd take the time to do it well. FYI, even many PA's know there are issues with Saints. In the beginning, the writers leave out that the fact that when the missionaries were first sent out, they went to the LAMANITES. It doesn't fit the "official story" to have Lamanites in the Heartland.

[@LauraWalker-vj6qm]

Michelle, can you provide the documents that show BY or others threatened and attempted to burn down Emma's house if she didn't give the JST?

[@MichelleBStone]

Yes. It will take me a minute to find it. But I'll post it when I do.

[@Sayheybrother8]

Michelle, my grandfather was the sealer in Mexico during that time. What were your grandparents names?

[@carjun2]

Wolf in sheep clothing.

[@laurapennock8080]

How is it that the church can be true and polygamy an abomination? Brigham was a polygamist as were several after him. If they were doing something deemed an abomination, how is it that the church can claim to retain priesthood authority after such an apostasy? There would have had to be a second restoration of the priesthood and a new church organization after polygamy was finally abandoned. Im having a hard time reconciling this. Help!! 😮

[@jjhardy2000]

This is very difficult to reconcile, you’re right. However, why does God let anyone do anything wrong? It could all be simply human error. At times we are deceived to think something is right when it isn’t. The important part is that we repent. If you look up Michelle’s episode with Gary Arnell where they talk about your questions, I think you’ll find it helpful.

[@godsoffspring4195]

I was there once too until the Lord revealed to me the difference between righteous plural marriages and not. It all comes together when one believes the scriptures accurately and listens to the Holy Ghost. There is very little of that going on here in this dimly opinionated video(s). The Holy Ghost does not support these naysayers. Just as Jacob 2:30 very clearly states, Laura. Since the Lord spoken that the normality of marriage should become monogamous unless or until God says "OTHERWISE". Don't let these detractors steer you astray. 😇

[@DaveHazelbaker]

This church is so messed up..quit trying to make it right!! If truly guided by god then you members believe in a very confused god. Give it up !! Its damaging to everyone.

[@user-yn9tv3pw6u]

Yikes.. she can’t say one nice thing about Brigham.. she really does hate him fully.

[@Autamnleaves65]

This man called himself a Dictator and a King. And ruled so..

[@StompMom5]

I got one for you... If Brigham were here today he'd be the leader of the cartels or founder of OnlyFans😆😂. No one can go lower than me

[@user-yn9tv3pw6u]

@ so, was Brigham a prophet with keys to lead or not? Was he an apostate? If you answer, yes to the second…Then you are very much of an apostate as mIchelle

[@Lifesagift3554]

So would you also say, "Yikes . . . Brigham can't say one nice thing about women . . . he really does hate them fully"? Here are some excerpts from Brigham found in the Journal of Discourses: “Now for my proposition; it is more particularly for my sisters, as it is frequently happening that women say they are unhappy. Men will say, ‘My wife, though a most excellent woman, has not seen a happy day since I took my second wife; No, not a happy day for a year,' says one; and another has not seen a happy day for five years. It is said that women are tied down and abused: that they are misused and have not he liberty they ought to have; that many of them are wading through a perfect flood of tears, because of the conduct of some men together with their own folly. “I wish my own women to understand that what I am going to say is for them as well as others, and I want those who are here to tell their sisters, yes, all the women of this community, and then write it back to the States, and do as you please with it. I am going to give you from this time to the 6th day of October next, for reflection, that you may determine whether you wish to stay with your husbands or not, and then I am going to set every woman at liberty and say to them, No go your way, my women with the rest, go your way. And my wives have got to do one of two things; either round up their shoulders to endure the afflictions of this world, and live their religion, or they may leave, for I will not have them about me. I will go into heaven alone, rather than have scratching and fighting around me. I will set all at liberty. ‘What, first wife too?' Yes, I will liberate you all.... “I wish my women, and brother Kimball's and brother Grant's to leave, and every woman in this Territory, or else say in their hearts that they will embrace the Gospel - the whole of it.... say to your wives, ‘Take all that I have and be set at liberty; but if you stay with me you shall comply with the law of God, and that too without any murmuring and whining. You must fulfill the law of God in every respect, and round up your shoulders to walk up to the mark without any grunting.' Now recollect that two weeks from tomorrow I am going to set you at liberty. But the first wife will say, ‘It is hard, for I have lived with my husband twenty years, or thirty, and have raised a family of children for him, and it is a great trial to me for him to have more women;' then I say it is time that you gave him up to other women who will bear children. If my wife had borne me all the children that she ever would bare, the celestial law would teach me to take young women that would have children.... “Sisters, I am not joking, I do not throw out my proposition to banter your feelings, to see whether you will leave your husbands, all or any of you. But I do know that there is no cessation to the everlasting whining of many of the women in this Territory; I am satisfied that this is the case. And if the women will turn from the commandments of God and continue to despise the order of heaven, I will pray that the curse of the Almighty may be close to their heels, and that it may be following them all day long.... “Prepare yourselves for two weeks from tomorrow; and I will tell you now, that if you will tarry with your husbands, after I have set you free, you must bow down to it, and submit yourselves to the celestial law. You may go where you please, after two weeks from tomorrow; but, remember, that I will not hear any more of this whining.” - From the Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, pp. 55-57, also printed in the Deseret News, v. 6, pp. 235-236 “If I had forty wives in the United States, they did not know it, and could not substantiate it, neither did I ask any lawyer, judge, or magistrate for them. I live above the law, and so do this people.” - From the Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 361 Sisters, do you wish to make yourselves happy? Then what is your duty? It is for you to bear children... are you tormenting yourselves by thinking that your husbands do not love you? I would not care whether they loved a particle or not; but I would cry out, like one of old, in the joy of my heart, ‘I have got a man from the Lord! Hallelujah! I am a mother...'” - From the Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 37 “Brother Cannon remarked that people wondered how many wives and children I had. He may inform them that I shall have wives and children by the million, and glory, and riches, and power, and dominion, and Kingdom after Kingdom, and reign triumphantly.” - From the Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, pp. 178-179 “Do you think that I am an old man? I could prove to this congregation that I am young; for I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can carry any of the young men.” - From the Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 210

[@milanajackson]

I wouldn't say " hates" him but more like really disgusted with him and appalled at his behavior and arrogance. I'm certainly not proud of him. He's my great great great grandpa and i don't condone his behavior one bit.

[@godsoffspring4195]

The evidence for proper polygamy in the scriptures is.... When he condemned it, He did. When he didn't condemn it.... He never. God did not condemn Abraham's plurality with wives. You can count on, if Abraham sinned breeding with Hagar God would have said so at the time. Or.... did he wait until now just to have Michelle tell us that thousands of years later?? Hmmm.... :>)

[@whyisgamora3721]

Tell me you haven't read the Bible without telling me you haven't read the Bible. Abram, not Abraham, practiced concubinage. Abraham was Abram's new covenant name, after which he never entered plural anything. Same with Israel (formerly Jacob). No entering polygamy after entering the covenant. Educate yourself instead of trolling. Good luck.

[@godsoffspring4195]

K, I won't do that, we're good, same guy unless I'm mistaken. By the way, you don't know what he entered or didn't. What we do know is, there is no record that God reprimanded Abraham for boinking another women to have a child. According to you floaters... out of WEDLOCK to boot!!! So here we have it. The naysayers claim God has always condemned polygamy when the scriptures show otherwise. It's not rocket science and the Holy Ghost only supports the truth that when the Lord says OTHERWISE, monogamy is the way to go. The simple truth of it 😇

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@whyisgamora3721 Oh... so I got the wrong guy, did I? Dang! Can you point out the parts that tell us the covenant God made with Abraham included anything to do with living righteous or unrighteous plural polygamous lives? The Abrahamic covenant applies to all who accept the gospel and are baptized. The blessings of the covenant can be extended to individuals in the spirit world through family history work and vicarious temple ordinances. That's about it. Yes? I'll wait.

[@Autumn77077]

@@godsoffspring4195 And the wars that have been going on for thousands of years in the middle east are a direct result of the error Abraham and Sarai caused. Please, do a little more homework and dive deep, not just what you have been spoon fed. The facts are the facts, the truth is the truth, many of us see it plain as day.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@Autumn77077 What error?

[@godsoffspring4195]

IMO... Michelle has proven she is not qualified to teach beyond the basic principles of the gospel. The Holy Ghost is not present in these uploads and the big lie preached here about what is written in Jacob 2:30 is one of the big reasons why. That Holy writ cannot be broken in any pretzel factory, troubled minds or word salad all you can eats.

[@godsoffspring4195]

Michelle!! So Hagar was simply a surrogate but Abraham didn't know or didn't care that having children with more that one woman or wife and plural marriage was a no-no so he went ahead with it anyway??? 😂 Remember that credibility loss you were accusing others of last week?? Tsk, tsk

[@JakobPGrau]

Yawn. Take a hike, troll.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@JakobPGrau It's easy to get sleepy when we don't pay attention or can't answer the questions. I'll tell ya what Jakob, if you can show us that Abraham was just a dumbo who didn't know that God absolutely puked on plural marriages with righteous men and women... I'll book a route along the Appalachian Trail😆 PS... trolls don't usually waste their time actually watching the content the are trolling. Just for a heads up big guy. :>)

[@Autumn77077]

But that is exactly what Abraham did - he didn't have the faith to wait as the angel told him he would have a son and he listened, or was coerced by Sarai to take her servant to bear a child. Then he kicked her and Ishmael out - if she were his wife why did he kick her out? Because she was never his wife, she was a servant, a surrogate - so to answer your questions YES Abraham made a huge mistake, or in your words he went ahead with it anyway. Look at the middle east, the wars that are in direct result to the error/ the no-no that Abraham committed. Do some homework, you'll find that what she is saying is correct, and Abraham was after all only a man, he was subject to sin just like any other man that has walked this earthy test. The only person who was perfect was Jesus, and if polygamy was the LAW, then why didn't Jesus practice and preach it? Judas Iscariot was an apostle who walked with Jesus, yet he too was not perfect and he sinned. Why do you think that prophets (Abraham) cannot sin? If Judas who walked and talked with Jesus could sin, then doesn't that also make sense that anybody or anyone who walked this earth is also be capable of sin? Abraham sinned, not to be bad, not to be disobedient, but he was human, he had weakness - just like all of us do. To put him so high on a pedestal implying that he was incapable of sin or did something that was a no-no is absurd!

[@user-yn9tv3pw6u]

@@Autumn77077the father of the faithful didn’t have faith? Did you actually say that? He clearly was a righteous man. If he had plural wives he did it as the father of the faithful

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@Autumn77077 "why did he kick her out? Because she was never his wife, she was a servant" OR..... she was Abraham's wife as well as the servant of Sarah which is why God told Hagar to return home and... Abraham did not make a mistake. See, that works way better. Seems to me the scriptures teach two great peoples were to be the blessing of Abraham's plurality. One with the blessings of the covenant and the other without it. Am I wrong? He kicked Hagar out because Sarah wanted him to. God sent her back.

[@3thingsfishing427]

Isn't your whole channel about how Joseph Smith DIDN'T promote plural marriage, and now your church is admitting he DID? Awkward.

[@godsoffspring4195]

Raising up seed is more than just bearing children under the restored church. It means to raise up seed being taught properly by specific men and women. What I mean by that is... the difference between raising up seed under a man like Joseph Smith, Brigham young and all the rest of LDS prophets including other understanding men and women in Zion. As compared to.... raising up seed to the likes of Michelle and any other person who teach erred nonsense like this. :>)

[@godsoffspring4195]

I'll also post this in #2. I've had all this worked out years ago or I would NEVER even thought of becoming part of a church who has had disobeyed God. There has been nothing offered in any of these videos other than wayward opinion and apostate views. By throwing out the credibility of past prophets and leaders, redefining scripture at their expense and resting other holy writ all together, is very ignorant and wrong. If plural marriage was never ever advised or allowed by the Lord when He saw fit AT ALL.... He would have made it very clear to Abraham to date. That has never been done and there is zero Holy Ghost support for what these deniers are peddling.

[@kathybence]

I know this gets us nowhere because we have such different perspectives, but god tolerates but never commands or even condones this. In the old testament it just happened because flawed humans lived it and suffered as a result. On the other hand, the early saints lived it because Brigham declared that god commanded it. The suffered too. You'll notice that the story got that right: lots of sad looking men in this children's story. Looks like everyone is either feeling guilt for ignoring the obvious cruelty of doing this to their wives or they were just miserable living it. Happiness and good fruits did not result in the Old Testament or wherever it was lived.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@kathybence I see! So everyone who's procreated in plural resulted in zero good fruit or happiness. Well I can think of good fruit from both Abraham's lineages via more than one wife being two great nations. One with the covenant and the the other naught. Just as God promised. Though not so gloomy, we have a much brighter outlook and makes sense with the scriptures and doesn't poo poo on the prophets. Not every family who engaged in raising up seed unto the Lord via plural procreation, were completely miserable. You just made that up. In comparison the same can be said about monogamous relationships gone bad or hardships even today. You can't claim all by the existence of the other and/or the few cases that happen to make it to the news papers. That's just wrong.

[@joelburnham6348]

I would like to know where in scripture God has ever, ever ,ever commanded polygamy. You guys love to say "well, if God doesn't command it , then it is an abomination". But you refuse to say where He does command it. The only place is 132, which if you were historically honest is incredibly suspect. And I assume you don't accept the JST of the Bible? It, along with any credible understanding of the BOM, completely condemns polygamy as an abomination.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@joelburnham6348 He didn't have to command it. It was a very normal reality back in the day. The kicker is... God let us know the times and who He chose to not to.

[@joelburnham6348]

@@godsoffspring4195 well that makes no Sense. I guess you then follow lamech, who was the first to follow the practice in the Old testament, who was also a murderer, and Riplakish from the book of Ether. Not good people to join your cause to. As I said, your arguments only make you look worse. I suggest you find a group of FLDS believers to poor your polygamous heart out to.

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

We need a visual timeline showing the process, proving that Joseph wouldn't have EVER asked that question because he already knew it was an abomination. Has anyone created one? If not, I'll see if I can make one.