Where Did That Happen? Consistent Locations ESSENTIAL in Family Trees

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

🕵‍ Why You Can't Find Your Ancestor's Hometown 👉🏼 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGLSkKWMbpuYmJo

[@suzannemcclendon]

As I get to different parts of my main tree, I'm cleaning up the locations. I generally use city/county/state (spelled out) and then USA (as initials). If I have the name of the city/town, I write the county name without the word "county". If I don't have the city/town name, then I write the county name with the word "County". For example: Belton, Anderson, South Carolina, USA or Anderson County, South Carolina, USA. When I find conflicting information about the town name, but all are in the same county, then I just write "Whatever County, State, USA". If even the county is conflicting, then I just write "Whatever State, USA". Many of my ancestors and their relatives were part of the mass migration from Edgefield County, South Carolina, to Alabama, in the 1850s, and I am finding quite a few conflicts along the way. I even found one couple that had marriage records from both states, so I don't know which state they actually got married in at this point. I'm watching the replay now. No matter what I do, I can't seem to get here for the livestreams anymore. Maybe some day. :) Keep up the good work!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I like that you strive to be consistent in your research, which is the major takeaway from this video. As for which state, the Board of Certified Genealogists invites us to tackle this in the proof standard step #4 "Resolution of conflicting evidence" bcgcertification.org/ethics-standards/ It's up to us to write a conclusion. If we can't confidently confirm a location, we make an educated guess based on available evidence and indicate that the conclusion is open to change. BTW... I won't have premiered in the summer due to the kids being home most of the day and different demands on my time. However, I'll be responding to new videos within 24 hours of their release. No worries about missing the premieres. We'll still have the live streams.

[@suzannemcclendon]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Thank you, Devon. Thank you also for the BCG link. I will read it shortly. I now have their Genealogy Standards 2nd Edition Revised Kindle book and am working my way through that, too. I'm having a lot of trouble confidently confirming anything lately. One thing will appear to be set in stone, so that's what I go with, then it gets upended. OY! I hope that you and your gang enjoy the summer! I look forward to whatever you two post, whatever the format. :) Oh, I have to share this with you! This morning, I got a copy of my 3rd great-grandmother's will from the Edgefield County Archives! She is the mother-in-law of my brickwall 2nd great-grandma. It is her mother's sister that you've used as an example in some of the videos. Have a blessed day!

[@fishinwidow35]

That is exactly what I do.

[@cababyboomerq6012]

I have done Swedish research for many years and every so often I go into family search and volunteer to clean up some Swedish place names.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You're so awesome! I love that FamilySearch has the clean up feature. It also has a standardize place name option in their Get Involved website. That way, the place name on a chart is whatever folks want but there is a second location that is standardized. I love the two-name approach.

[@cababyboomerq6012]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Thanks. And yes, that is a great feature. Sometimes if the correct place name seems “cloudy” to me I might actually do a bit of quick research on my own to make sure I get it right. My thought has always been that some people just aren’t familiar with Swedish place names and so misspellings create issues. Or if they took a place name off of Ellis Island Records! My grandmother’s said “Porta Harda”. She was born in Norra Hestra! But Porta Harda is how the man at Ellis Island heard it through my grandmothers Swedish accent. This stuff matters and I actually enjoy doing it.

[@Cheneyjoan]

I use Rootsmagic which allows me to use historical place names with a "hidden" standardized name for geocoding. That's my main database. Familysearch kinda has the same feature, but MyHeritage and Ancestry need modern place names, so I give them what they want to get the best hints.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You have discovered what I have for all the platforms. Now, if the genealogy community can expand this conversation to nudge Ancestry, MyHeritage, Findmypast, etc to have the 'double name' with geocoding so that transferring trees between platforms is less of a mess. To do that, this video and our livestream on Friday should be shared far and wide. Can you help?

[@Rajordan]

Years ago I decided to bite the bullet, make a decision, and get all my place names consistent. I was frustrated by other trees that had things like Houston, TX, Tex, Tex., Texas, and still not knowing for sure if Houston was a County or City. Back when computer memory was expensive, trying to save bytes on every location name got us into trouble, as in "Hey, if we use 'Co' instead of 'County,' we'll save space!" And add confusion. I try very hard to do "City, County, State, Country" as in "Houston, Harris County, Texas, USA." It is much clearer in the long run. Some people leave off the word county, like people are somehow supposed to know that "Houston, Texas, USA" is the county, and Houston, Harris, Texas, USA" is the full city, county, state, country. Also, I abhor, ", , Texas, USA" to indicate no city, or county. Talk about an ugly report! But that is what old school genealogists do.

[@ennasus5964]

To be precise is always worth it in the long run. It should be mentioned in videos for beginners. I will have to do a lot of clarifications in my tree, too.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I can so relate to everything you posted. And I'm aware, having grown up in Houston, Harris County, Texas and Houston, Fort Bend County, Texas the confusion this causes with Houston County, Texas.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Enna, while I agree that precision and clarity are important, I wouldn't necessarily include this in videos for beginners. Starting out in genealogy is overwhelming as it is that I would actually include this tip for intermediate users. Here's what I strive to teach beginners. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKmVhZmcYrdgr6s kzbin.info/www/bejne/faPWan6In7mqd9k

[@ryarosh]

How do you document the other names of the locations? I have put some as alternate locations or residences on Ancestry and Family Search and tried to explain why the name should stay on details or the person’s life story to give needed information.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

In RootsMagic and FamilySearch, there are 'double lines'. For instance, you can use whatever you like in the field, and RootsMagic will link that to a standard place name. The same goes for FamilySearch. The only place that Ancestry could allow you to keep track of a second place name is within the description field. However, that is not necessarily universal when you share between platforms. You've hit on the biggest problem in the genealogy industry - a lack of standards that we all consult, like those binomial nomenclature that defines living creators by genuis and species. My HOPE is that if we can request that platforms have a double field (1. modern and 2. historic) with a geocode, then the debate would be over and we can achieve more clarity in our research. What do you think?

[@tomarsandbeyond]

My old software has only one place field for an event. I am considering using some short paragraph format in the notes for every person and marriage explaining each location. I use modern locations and can refer to older ones in the notes. I don't add the nation for USA locations because I don't like seeing entries that say USA before the nation existed. That one I might change if everyone else is doing that.

[@chrisferraiolo1935]

Sorry I missed the premiere. Comp issues. Looking forward to your vid on how to quickly change from historical place name to current. My tree on ancestry has historical for now and I want to change it. I should also note that I have edited some places on some docs. A census that clearly said Haverhill, Mass was linked to Haverhill, NH. I also noticed for some Italian towns, people pick the first one on the drop down list. Now that is annoying!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I will focus on being consistent within our own family trees. Let others do as they wish. A live chat respondent said if Ancestry would adopt Geocoding along with two place name lines (one for historic, the other for modern), then the debate would be over. What say you?

[@chrisferraiolo1935]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Yeah. That would do it. Did you know Geni and Wikitree both connect to Google earth when you put in a place name? Some projects require a historical place. But, they make sure the historical links with the place on Google earth.

[@tinplategeektoo]

I try to be consistent and use historic names if I'm aware of them or they are written in the records I'm looking at. But even then there are issues such as Church bishoprics not matching Civil counties either at the time of the record or today. So I end up placing the Church in its Civil county of the time which is at odds with how the websites classify them. And that's just 1 example of many. Biggest pet peeve currently is FindAGrave cemetery addresses which in England add the name of the current local authority when that has no bearing on the postal or other know address for the cemetery. And nobody wants to record any UK address to end with "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You make so many valid points. If only there was a standard we could use. We can forgive the record creators, because they knew where they were and didn't think to write for future generations. However, as genealogists, it's very difficult to know what the standard should be when we're adding events to our family tree today.

[@ennasus5964]

In your answer you mentioned geo coding. Do you have a video to explain how this is done and how those codes are searchable?

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Not yet, but it's something I'm planning. RootsMagic makes it super easy to do. Family Tree Maker is a little channeling but doable. Stay tuned.

[@PowPowSunshine100]

Hóla, howdy, hello fellow Texan, Texian, or Tejano! Do you know of a timeline that shows the historical border/ boundary changes of what is currently the Great State of Texas? I have been trying to figure it out, but it's not as easy as I thought it would be! I keep looking for something that has all of these changes consolidated in one place, but so far, no go! There is a direct line in my family starting in the early 1800's in Matamoros, to what is now generally DeWitt County, then to Victoria, and going on down to Corpus. What I have found is that not only have the country borders changed, but so have the counties, and the documentation is often incorrect. Sometimes I am not sure where these places really were...if only there was one place that had all these changes documented! Until then, I am using historical names, with a notation. Great video, looking forward to future shows on this topic!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

This website is not perfect but pretty dang good for all of the US. www.mapofus.org/texas/

[@ennasus5964]

When I read this, there comes another question to mind: Do you write the placenames in your language or in the language of the said country? I.e. Fiorenze or Florence or Florenz (in Italy)? If you write it in the countrie's language you might find archives and certificates easier. I am German and when I read @anna hart's comment there are so many names not written in German, i. e. the name of the ancestor us most surely not Rinehart but Reinhart (or Reinhard, Reinhardt), it is Hessen not Hesse and Mary Catherine Preiss is not a Swiss or German name but an English one. In German it would be Marie(or Maria) Katharina Preuss( or Preiß or Preuß or Preis). So if you search or try to verify I suggest it should be written in the language where it was documented. If someone went to America a name would be written how it sounded, so another or many different changes again. Friedrich could become Frederic or Fred or something different like Fr.😂 Heinrich could become Henry or Harry. I would use the different spellings for searching but always stick to the name on the birth-certificate as he or she would have identified him/herself with that the most.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Enna, you bring up a FANTASTIC point. Again, there isn't a standard that guides us in genealogy, so the answer depends on what platforms you use. MyHeritage does have a language converter so you can type in the location in whatever name you prefer and it will convert to the language another user needs in order to compare trees. They also use this for their hinting features as well. It's really neat. As for FamilySearch and Ancestry, I strive to convert the names to what they are in the original language (and place an alternate spelling of the English translation - since I speak English). So, my ancestor, Joseph Geißler appears this way in my family tree. The Eszett is not standard in the English language so he was born in Germany and wrote his name with that letter, I use it. For any of my other German ancestors, I use their German names at birth using all the accents and spellings. I would do the same for all other language variations and recommend others strive for this mutual standard. But it looks like you already follow this practice, based on your Heinrich / Henry example. I have many Heinrichs and they appear in the tree with Heinrich but I add an alternative name with the Henry name if they have documents that demonstrate they made that change.

[@ennasus5964]

Thank you. I didn't know about theses other websites.

[@mariecarpenter3371]

What is the recommended way to document ancestors locations? (i.e. the former Yugoslavia). My ancestors are documenting this as Austria, Austria-Hungary, Slovenia, etc.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

The recommended way depends on who you listen to. If you were using Ancestry, they would tell you to use the modern locations. If you were using FamilySearch, they say you have two fields. One will strive to be the historically accurate standard and the other field can be modern if you so choose. I advocate for historically accurate place names to reduce confusion of where your ancestors were living. Because then you know more about the place than just the current location. You know the political rulers, culture, and history, just by seeing "Duchy of Baden" rather than Baden-Wurtenburg, Germany (for example.).

[@pinwheelgrl9304]

If you use desktop software, check your guidebook. Some need gps to coordinate with Google Earth, some require names to match modern maps for its features.

[@teresaeckford5072]

but what if the place names themselves weren't consistent? For instance, in Kent, England, the village of Kent went by the following names: Preston, Preston-next-Wingham, Preston-by-Wingham...in records from the same period, I've found all three! These days, it's known only as Preston.

[@tomarsandbeyond]

This is one reason why I use modern place names. Sometimes I have clarifications in the notes.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Again, I would use a combination of historical place names and modern place names. What was it called at the creation of the record. That helps us keep repositories in mind when doing our research.

[@cathyc6725]

Great point about the United States of Mexico. I never thought about that!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

While I didn't say it correctly, it's something my Mexican sister-in-law points out regularly.

[@godisloveireland]

Great video!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@jerrimenard3092]

Try searching Budapest Hungary for an Irene Nemeth! My Father, Grandmother, Great Aunt and Great Grandfather were refugees. Only my Father and Grandmother made it to the USA. The others went to Canada. A second wave ended up in Finland and Sweden from what I heard ( unconfirmed). Do you have any clue how many Nemeth's come from Budapest? Exhausting!

[@geraldheston1335]

I prefer to use modern place names, with notes if boundaries or names have changed. I want my place pins to be accurately located, and that only works by using modern place names. Genealogy programs do a terrible job of mapping, so I keep a separate database and map with geographic information system (GIS) software.

[@AdultThirdCultureKid1971]

So do I.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Actually, RootsMagic does a fairly good job of finding the Geolocations and mapping place names. However, we have to find the standard location in their database that correlates with the places we use.

[@KevPhD]

I'm constantly keeping Google Maps open in one tab so that I can identify the current place name for an old church record, then leverage the most detailed place name available in Ancestry (akin to City, Country, State, Country).

[@frankhooper7871]

Close but not quite - Mexico is Estados Unidos Mexicanos (United Mexican States) rather than Estados Unidos de Mexico (United Stated of Mexico) 😉 As I mostly use Ancestry and Family Tree Maker, I put my American place names as either [for example] Fullerton, Orange, California, USA or Orange County, California, USA [if I don't know the city yet] or even just California, USA, if that's the depth of my knowledge for a particular event. Likewise for my UK relative [vastly outnumbering my American ones] I'll put town, county, England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland. I choose to use historical English counties so many of my ancestors from what is now London are recorded as being from Kent, Surrey, Middlesex etc. Every so often, I'll run through the place list in Family Tree Maker and correct all the inconsistencies that have invariably crept in LOL.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Thanks, Frank. I was taught the de was included during Spanish class. So I checked in Google and found an entry that said it was valid. But now I can't find it. Go figure! I'm glad you work to maintain consistency within your family tree. The inconsistencies creep in so quickly if we don't make cleaning this up an active part of our family tree research. It's kind of like spring cleaning our house. We should do it at least once a year, but do we. Speaking of which....

[@AdultThirdCultureKid1971]

I put Essex County, Massachusetts, if I'm not yet sure of the name of the city an ancestor was born in.

[@ennasus5964]

How would you combine historic and modern place names? It could get very long😮

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Great question. RootsMagic and FamilySearch have prompts that nudge you toward using historical place names in your family tree. FamilySearch will invite you to 'standardize' your locations but you can leave the primary field in the tree with the modern name if you prefer. RootsMagic will accept a valid name and then it has a 'standardized' place name that is modern along with the capability to geocode the location. Thus, in the tree you use the historic place names. For mapping features RM will allow use a modern location. On Ancestry, we're out of luck because they don't have double place name options. So, you're best bet is to use their description field to describe the 'other variation' of the name depending on what you use consistently. Does that make sense? If not, ask a follow-up quesiton in a new comment thread so I can see it.

[@AdultThirdCultureKid1971]

My Kemp ancestors were said to have settled or been born in Salem, Essex, Massachusetts Bay, British Colonial America, yet other records would say that they were born in the next town over, but still in the same county and the same colony.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Record conflicts are part of the fourth step of the genealogy proof standard, "Resolution of conflicting evidence." bcgcertification.org/ethics-standards/ In that case, I would us the location that currently is more likely based on available evidence. And then I would rite a conclusion that resolves the conflict. Is that what you do?

[@AdultThirdCultureKid1971]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Yes, I do.

[@junebutka6571]

Afternoon.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Thanks for watching. What do you do to keep things consistent in your tree?

[@junebutka6571]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics I do alternate name for Historical names. I use Town/City, Full County, State, Territory, USA. I make corrections as I go when I find them. I make a note in Comments for others of historical places. I also include in the note field. I also note the county or country at time of document.

[@anpowicasta2135]

Question. Just how accurate is ancestry dna testing?

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

It depends on the question you're asking. 1. Ethnicity results are only good as the reference populations that your DNA is compared to. If your ancestors are not from England, chances are your results are plausible but not confirmed. 2. If you're trying to match close relatives (meaning anything closer that 2nd cousins), it's extremely accurate. 3. If you're DNA matching beyond 2nd cousins, by the nature of smaller DNA segments and the increase of false matches as the matching segment size decreases, it's not necessarily accurate.

[@shamusosullivan5650]

Pennsylvania Land warrants drive me crazy because PA counties changed so much in 1700s. And so many people just see the original location and base their tree on that which then mixes so many people (with same 7-8 names in early PA!). I try to include adding a note of present location as well in timeline facts. Plus each profile I try to put a research note stating when county lines and names changed for that area.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Yep. Pennsylvania, and many other locations with continuous boundary changes are problematic. Which is why I advocate for a double place name standard. That way we can have the historically accurate name and the modern one.

[@Elke_KB]

I try to stay away from abbreviations, as a non-American I have no idea if MN is Maine, Montana or Maryland. Early Canadian settlers are a nightmare with place names, Quebec, Upper/Lower Canada, Canada East/West, York=Toronto, etc. The hardest is tracing my East Prussian ancestors. All the town names have changed from German to Polish or Russian. The digital maps have difficulty finding these locations if I use the historical name.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I love your point that across countries, researchers have trouble with abbreviations. So, for clarity, we should avoid ones (with the exception of PERHAPS the USA). Not all digital maps struggle with historical names. On FamilySearch, they have two location fields. One is the standardized one (which includes historical place name prompts) and the other is the 'whatever you want' field. When we ensure that we use the correct standardized prompt, the maps on FS work really well.

[@ryarosh]

I used to think it was helpful to include more information about locations, such as the hospital names or church names etc. then I discovered how that messes up the algorithms for others, so I have tried to go back and correct those and even left notes why I have changed for others. I have also been working to be consistent with my dates being day 3 letter month and then 4 number date. However I’ve noticed that family search seems to prefer the entire month wrote out. It really does get difficult sometimes to try and find information listed more consistently.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

For the hospital, street address, etc., Ancestry works better when that information is in the description. FamilySearch users currently put this in the 'reason to change' field but that can be changed by other users who forget to bring over that information. RootsMagic is the best platform because it allows us to keep track of the 'secondary' location of a place (which means hospital, cemetery name, address of home, etc.) As consumers, we need to be very vocal about our needs on the Ancestry and FamilySearch platforms (but an emphasis on Ancestry). If they will change and come to some standarization, then many frustrations can be eliminated.

[@mariacapaldi5062]

Awesome, Thanks Devon!!!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Yep, Any time!

[@lakedays3708]

Excellent video. I always input USA rather than United States of America bcz it’s shorter, less data to be stored, and if you misspell it that might cause the data base to hiccup giving you poor outcome or unnecessary misses. Let’s start using USA y’all.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

That's what Ancestry would prefer. It would be nice for a decision to be made and everyone be nudged to using it. If scientists can define animals by a genius and species AND a commonly known as name, we can figure out this nomenclature for locations.

[@pinwheelgrl9304]

Exactly. For all those that just put city/state for a place - bleh! Because most of the time there is a county with that name AND one or more towns with that name in OTHER counties too. So then I have no idea which of 5 locations is correct. If all I have is county/state, then I specifically add in the word 'county' to show the difference. There is also another item seldom talked about, and that is "independent cities" (i.e. cities not under county jurisdiction). I have yet to know the correct notation for that.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Independent cities, that's a great topic. I hadn't thought about those. Thanks for that tip. I am glad you enjoyed this discussion. Please share it with others in your genealogy community to continue it.

[@borreliaetc]

When I do look at other family trees to see if I'm missing anything, my biggest question to ppl - are you sure that's the right location? I have ancestors from Sumiswald, Bern, Switzerland for many many many generations starting at 7th great grandfather. For said ancestor, Hans Michael Rinehart, we know his wife was named Mary Catherine Price. The prevailing assumption was she is from the German Preiss family.. but the place bothers me. It's far away from Bern. It's not simply up the Rhine River either, the Preiss family comes from Offenbach, Hesse, Germany. When you look on the map it makes you wonder. Yes it's possible that in the early 1700's a young lady moved to Switzerland.. But it's not probable. So really, it's an assumption because the last names sound alike.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Such great points. When we have consistent place names, we can proceed to evaluate the names so that we can analyze what's in our family trees. Does it make sense that the couple crossed paths for a union to take place? Such a great point.

[@fishinwidow35]

Pet peeve of mine is ancestry wants you to put USA and prior to 1776 I would like to have British Colony (or similar) The Mayflower Pilgrims did not live in the USA. It's cringy to me. Historically accurate place names makes it easier to find the old town history records and books.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Oh, I hear ya! I have the same problem. I have the same problem with the use of Germany before unification in 1871. I have a problem with not using Upper Canada/Lower Canada, etc. So yes. I have trouble with the modern place name use on Ancestry. It would be easily solved if they would add a section location line that has the historical place name prompts.

[@pinwheelgrl9304]

Yes, I too worry about this as my tree is now ooching into the colonial era when states had different boundaries or didn't exist yet. I know what we need - a software combining tool! Take what we like from each program, shake it all together and hope it comes out working correctly:)

[@fishinwidow35]

@@pinwheelgrl9304 Wouldn't that be great!

[@Kimbee-opal60]

There also many who spell out dates!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You are quite correct. However, I haven't found a quick way to improve dates in our databases like I have for place locations. When I do, I will create a date standardization appeal video and then a how-to do it series.

[@tomarsandbeyond]

I use the format my software uses, so it recognizes what I put in. There should be options for how to present or display dates. It is all 1's and 0's in the computer.

[@shelleymonson8750]

I find that Ancestry defaults to spelling out United States of America, which is annoying because it takes so much room. I prefer to use USA.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Are you sure? I have found that Ancestry defaults to USA unless it brings in data from Find A Grave. Those entries are often United States of America. I'm not doubting you. I just spent 3 days cleaning up my tree on Ancestry and found USA was the predominate name, with the above mentioned exception in Burial facts.