Fanalysis - Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil Part 1

[@Hollywoohorse]

I find it so interesting that Mace and Shaak Ti were so close to catching Sidious. It also interests me that Mace has so much trust placed in Shaak Ti's abilities. He sent her to protect Palpatine, he brought her with him to investigate a possible lead on THE Sith lord, and left her in charge of the Jedi Temple when he went to face Sidious. I treasure these books just because she's my fav and there's so little information about her. Its criminal.

[@an0rangutan]

I love fanalysis for the fact that it has pretty much all the best Star Wars theorists all together.

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - Thanks very much, we appreciate your confidence in us. Remember not to take us on everything though. Always double check sources and such, we're never going to be right all the time. Read along with us and see if you agree with our analysis!

[@bouncin2207]

2:01:55 There is a reference, after you eliminate Sun Fac, you can see his starfighter fleeing below you. It is even acknowledged in the dialogue.

[@rapliberationarmy089]

I absolutely love this book. Ingeniously written, compelling and just great. Honestly, I even prefer this over the version of the story told in the recent clone wars arc “siege of Mandalore”

[@robgeorge4581]

James Luceno is the best. The amount of references he has to other SW work is like Nyaruko-san's Jojo shitposting or Araki and music (ok not to that level but roll with me). Thankfully this isn't Dark Plague levels of references so 1st time readers should be fine.

[@robgeorge4581]

An amazing thing to listen to while working on an Imperial Chinese History Final Paper at 4:55 AM.

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - Fascinating subject matter. I have two close friends that studied it for their university course. I'm glad we could peripherally entertain you as you work.

[@TrajGreekFire]

I actually like the fact that separatists were aliens + Dooku and Sidious, unlike empire which was 99,9999% human.

[@tiredjediknight3110]

The CIS was very carefully constructed that way to help pave way for Palpatine's eventual plans.

[@DB6195]

Luceno actually gave Stover some notes to give Lucas when the RotS was in for line editing (yes Lucas line edited the RotS novel). So there are definitely some G canon stuff in this book

[@robgeorge4581]

+DB6195 So its true Magnaguards are confirmed having near lightspeed reactions then? Horary, solid numbers to do calcs!

[@redwolfsworld9938]

what is G canon

[@LokiTheClever]

@@redwolfsworld9938 What that bastard George lucas what he thinks is canonical

[@dazdavis7896]

@@LokiTheCleveryou’re an idiot

[@Jedi_Spartan]

58:12 it would've been funny if Sidious had actually been defeated by something like that, Sidious: So, how were we actually found out by the Jedi? Dooku: Well one of the Nemodians left one of their hologram chairs in a facility overrun by the Republic during the attack on Cato Nemodia. Sidious: Dammit, why did I trust those guys after Naboo, tell Grevious he has permission to do what he wants to those two

[@Jedi_Spartan]

34:04 God I wish we saw that in the start of the Siege of Mandalore arc of TCW instead of Kenobi fighting on a no name planet while Skywalker casually dodges blaster bolts. 1:42:00

[@kestrelraptorial689]

This commentary made me wonder what it would have been like had Anakin had Dooku as his Master, or, maybe far more interesting, had they overlapped in time, Revan.

[@kestrelraptorial689]

1:57:15 In "The Phantom Menace" film, when Shmi says this line, the screen shows her face only, and it's not clear at all who she's saying it to in particular - but the screen after that immediately jumps to Qui-Gon looking thoughtfully at her and Anakin, so it's Qui-Gon Jinn who is really taking the message in. At this point in time, Padme still looked at Anakin as a 'funny little boy'.

[@pvtspartan]

Connor's turn for a beard

[@williamhenning4700]

Labyrnth of Evil is in my top 5 Star Wars books along with Revenge of the Sith, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Path of Destruction and Darth Plagueis.

[@justsomerandomguyonline2784]

Oh god u liked Darth Plagueis. Dude that book was a killer to get through.

[@justsomerandomguyonline2784]

Revenge Of The Sith novel was fantastic tho as well as Darth Bane book 1. I agree.

[@williamhenning4700]

I think Reti summed up Luceno's writing style pretty well. He uses bits and pieces of the lore from all throughout the mythos and is extremely detailed. You either like that style or you don't and I happen to LOVE it.

[@justsomerandomguyonline2784]

William Henning no I also love it too. I just dislike his writing style in general. I find it boring, confusing, and there is too much emphasis on world building, which I dislike very much.

[@williamhenning4700]

Well, that's what I'm saying. You don't love writing like that. In fact, you just admitted you don't even LIKE it which is probably why you didn't enjoy Plagueis. Granted, Plagueis is probably at the bottom of my top 5.

[@legomoviesstudios8822]

I'm a simple man. I see all five members reviewing star wars, I put on headphones, and click

[@darkblue6847]

Oddly as you describe Anakin’s use of the force as a neutral “the dark side is bad. Why?” I how I envision Kyle Katarn developed his connection to the force; the “something doesn’t have to be bad just because it has been labeled and used so far”.

[@Spellshot693]

*insert Count Dooku voice* I’ve been looking forward to this! This was a solid book, but it was really hard to follow for me. Maybe you guys can explain it to me!

[@robgeorge4581]

+Tanner Lowrie A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...there was a yandere named Anakin who doesn't like sand and The Terminator but he has lighsabers. Unfortunately they don't fight each other.

[@robgeorge4581]

+Elias Sen Doudouh That to. Thanks for filling in the gaps.

[@ExistentHope]

Basically the book is the Outer Rim Sieges The Clone Wars has raged on for 3 years and the separatists are mostly fighting in the Outer Rim having been pushed back out of the core and mid rim of the galaxy by the Republic clone army. Anakin Obi Wan head over to Cato Nemodia to capture that world and others and Viceroy Gunray they discover clues about Sidious and the past 13 years and the jedi begin to unravel where Sidious has been on Coruscant in a place called the works. Then Sidious and Dooku set up a kidnapping of Chancellor Palpatine by General Grievous starting the battle of Coruscant leading into Revenge of the Sith. It is the opening crawl of ROTS.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

I think this is one of the few stories I've heard of where the Jedi are actually looking for who the Sith Lord is. In TCW season 6 the Jedi found out the Sith created the army fighting for them and they didn't bother looking into it whatsoever, why?

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Actually, there's a story I've heard about (I think one of the Republic comics) there's a Jedi who's a friend of Palpatine and suggests a way to find the Sith Lord, but since he only told his padawan and Palpatine the latter just ordered Dooku to send way more droids to the planet those 2 go to

[@auditect950]

Can we form a functional "EU Trilogy" for every Star Wars Movie? I know that TPM had Cloak of Deception playing before it and AoTC has the Approaching Storm, but what would be the final part in both of these? And what about the OT Movies?

[@ariesstorm9577]

Audial Architect I'm not 100% certain but I think Darth Maul Shadow Hunter takes place between Cloak of Deception and The Phantom Menace. I don't think they ever released a novel immediately after TPM or AOTC, but ROTS had Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader before and after respectively.

[@robgeorge4581]

How the prequel Trilogy should have been. Episode 1: AOTC Episode 2: The Microseries Episode 3: ROTS novelization.

[@auditect950]

How the prequel Trilogy should have been in my opinion: Episode 1: TPM Episode 2: AotC Episode 3: RotS

[@youngsmitty347]

TPM Trilogy: Episode I: Cloak of Deception Episode II: Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter Episode III: The Phantom Menace AOTC Trilogy: Episode I: The Approaching Storm Episode II: Attack of the Clones Episode III: Star Wars: Clone Wars (micro-series) Chapters 1-21 ROTS Trilogy: Episode I: Labyrinth of Evil Episode II: Revenge of the Sith Episode III: Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader ANH Trilogy: Episode I: Death Star (novel) Episode II: A New Hope Episode III: Scoundrels TESB Trilogy: Episode I: Allegiance Episode II: Choices of One Episode III: The Empire Strikes Back ROTJ Trilogy: Episode I: Shadows of the Empire Episode II: Return of the Jedi Episode III: Luke Skywalker & the Shadows of Mindoir

[@BattlestarZenobia]

Just to point out I like Cloak of Deception and I prefer this to Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader

[@jacobmathena6241]

Actually don't the Kaleesh people worship Grievous as a god now? Cause he died a glorious death?

[@ironinquisitor3656]

you are right. After Grievous died he was deified on Kalee.

[@LokiTheClever]

@@ironinquisitor3656 I am surprised they still consider him a Kaleesh given the majority of his organic tissue is missing

[@ItPreach]

Can you guys do Republic Commando?

[@RussSilver-pp3ny]

Maybe a good idea for a vs battle is Kyle katarn vs revan maybe evan would like that I know it's off topic

[@MrMarinus18]

59:12 Well actually it was not the way many people think. What actually was the case was the the army's chief of staff of Austria-Hungary Conrad von Hutzendorf wanted war with Serbia to annex their land and add them to the empire. However his main obstacle in that and the one that kept that from happening was Franz Ferdinand. In fact Franz Ferdinand was very disliked in the empire because he came from a very low class house and his wife was barely even nobility at all. He also was extremely anti-democratic and was also very hard to get along with. That was so much that even though he was the heir to the throne it was already decided that his line would not go on and that his children would not get the throne. It was not the fact that Franz was murdered that made the Austrians invade. It was the fact that he was no longer around to stop Conrad. If Franz had died in a car accident then the war would have happened in the exact same way.

[@ki4wzt]

Can you guys do the Thrawn Trilogy? Thanks, guys keep it up.

[@TrajGreekFire]

t'laalak-s'lalak-t'th'ak

[@aaronmiller4811]

So just wondering what is the groups opinion on mandalorians?

[@davidm8135]

Evan looks like post Malone with that beard

[@irvingramirez2335]

Can you do Darth Plaguies ?

[@Jedi_Spartan]

They did it years ago.

[@durp002]

I'm with you guys. I like all of the Dark Lord trilogy but Labyrinth of Evil is probably the one I'm least enthused by. Can't wait for ROTS and Rise of Darth Vader.

[@AntoineBandele]

Me too!

[@edithume5175]

Can't wait for you guys to cover Rots Novelization.

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - Coming soon to a KZbin video near you.

[@anonymousbee4163]

Wait, will there be one Dark Rendezvous, also, wasn't Thrawn Trilogy next?

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - Everything will be attended to. Just a matter of when.

[@robgeorge4581]

When Thrawn Trilogy comes out, we need discuss the brilliance of the greatest magnificent and cultured bastard in SW, Grand Admiral Thrawn. How much of a beast is he? Well, Grand Admiral Thrawn is the only being in the history of Star Wars to trap EU Admiral Ackbar!

[@edithume5175]

Hope Luceno gets to write more Star Wars Books, maybe a character piece.

[@anonymousbee4163]

The way you guys describe Anakin, it sounds like he would fare better with the Imperial Knight seen in the Legacy comics.

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - You're not wrong.

[@robgeorge4581]

+Daniel Nee Interesting idea but I don't fully agree. Imperial Knights are way to collectivist. Anakin has always been about personal identity and freedom so there is a major conflict in ideologies.

[@anonymousbee4163]

Yeah, but when you read the comics there have been people who weren't totally collectivist soldiers. Some have been able to think for themselves. Which is a big issue for them as their fighting style emphasizes working as a group.

[@robgeorge4581]

+Daniel Nee "their fighting style emphasizes working as a group" And this is the main reason why Anakin wouldn't fit in as an Imperial Knight. He is more Knight than Jedi but unless you have really intimate relationship with Anakin, he really isn't that good in a group. His entire approach to military is meant for him to break away and do his own thing.

[@anonymousbee4163]

Granted, but as I said before there are exceptions, and he would be one of them. The imperial knights would just be more accepting of his headstrong mentality then the Jedi, cause the know (or think they do) as he is fighting for the same goal. They would be more lenient.

[@Evan19900]

Where’s that rise of Darth Vader discussion?

[@noelrose7419]

Yay! Was very excited to see this! it's a book i haven't gotten to yet but i really want to! And your discussion was great! You guys said something towards the end i have always had thoughts about. I've never understood the sith's anti alien stance. Like palpatine? eh, i mean i guess. But going all the way back to the sith empire it's just a mentality i've never understood. They appreciate power above all else, so i don't get why when i'm playing TOR, i get a bunch of sass for being a alien? It's always felt to me like a decision that was made just to make the bad guys seem worse. Like if they're all equal and stuff they'd be more sympathetic. So yeah it's never set right with me. Omg and for that matter gender too. Like i never remember it being an issue except in this one quest in TOR where I went to help an imperial base, and one of the generals was all "SIr! You can't expect us to follow the orders of a woman!" and i was just totally shocked. Like mofo I'M A SITH LORD like i felt it was so weird that in this universe there would be a person who'd say that. TO A SITH!

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - Idiots will be idiots. Doesn't really matter how advanced in ethos the majority get. That being said, speaking towards the speciest mentality specifically, I completely agree. It's never made much sense to me either. I hope you enjoyed the discussion and go on to love the book itself when you get the chance to read it. It's a great one.

[@macree01]

I think its just bad writing made to move forward some kind of political, social or otherwise agenda. The Sith value power above all else, no matter what form it comes in. This idea that has set in during the last few years of them being a white supremacist women hating organization is just not at all true to the lore, where you have people like Darth Zannah, Darth Treia and Darth Lumiya in the ranks and often as their most brutal or extremist members. The Sith value the individual, and the individuals wish to use the force as a tool. Also considering the Sith of old like Marka Ragnos, Ludo Kresh, Naga Sadow were literally hybrid Human/Sith beings ... yea, kinda doesn't click.The Sith at their best (really I mean the best that they have been written) are still evil but have factors which make them more believable. They don't just hate everything that isn't them, a moral absolutist black and white viewpoint like that just isn't very interesting and in my opinion is not true to what they are. In my opinion, identity politics of recent years has unfortunately really jaded people into believing this view point.

[@mixck]

You guys are pretty much The Avengers when you are all in the same podcast.

[@MrMarinus18]

1:08:51 I would think if the Kaminooiens rebel against the republic and refuse to sell them more clones they will be in deep trouble. After all occupying Kamino will be very hard as the clones feel a strong attachment to the planet so their loyalty in that can not be assured.

[@TrajGreekFire]

There were some rumors like 1 year ago about Padme book.

[@tiredjediknight3110]

It could be good provided they actually focus on her properly and not her relationship with Anakin. Pre episode 2 could be an interesting time period for her. Or a political thriller set during the war

[@Young_BZ]

Not into Avatar and Harry Potter so this is a HUGE Hype point for me! Great books.

[@AntoineBandele]

For shame.

[@Young_BZ]

I phrased this bad. Not into the content on here for those series. Harry Potter books are great. Avatar is fine but I like a a lot of other series (and I mean a lot) a lot more.

[@AntoineBandele]

😠

[@wizardclash1997]

Love yall

[@MrMarinus18]

1:07:10 I think that is just the writer kind of not wanting to go into that. When it was written racial issues were still a very scary topic and I think James just didn't want to have to deal with that.

[@TrajGreekFire]

Oh my GOD

[@Reti4]

Reti4 - I know right? We're finally getting them done.

[@charleskingsley9685]

When the council meditates together it's always fun to listen too.

[@SolarDragon007]

The Prequel Trilogy should've just been Revenge of the Sith split into 3 movies. A first film with Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting together in the Clone Wars, a second film about Anakin's conversion to the dark side/the end of the Clone Wars, and a third film about the Jedi Purge/rise of the Empire.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I agree.

[@knallekalle9920]

This. The Phantom Menace was an anthology film, and kid Anakin and adult Anakin are practically two different characters. Qui Gon Jinn was an unnecessary character. What we got were only two movies with adult Jedi Anakin, when we needed three for proper character development. More interactions with Obi Wan, Palpatine, Padme and Windu.

[@MrMarinus18]

I don't agree. We should see how Obi-Wan met Anakin. Also the jedi purge is not really a thing you can make a plot from for an entire movie.

[@knallekalle9920]

marinus18 It could still be in the Prequel Trilogy. Problem is that the story of TPM doesn't feel justified to be 1/3 of a trilogy. Boy Anakin is way too different from young adult Anakin. Two movies with Jedi Anakin isn't enough build up, and thus his turn to the Dark Side doesn't quite have the emotional impact as it should have. Sure, TCW exists, and it gives us a good portrayal of Anakin and his friendship with Obi Wan. But an trilogy should stand on it's own, not rely on supplementary material. Episodes 1 & 2 have the same plot, so you might as well just make AOTC Episode 1. Just have some flashbacks of Shmi, how Obi Wan met Anakin, and the Clone Wars the reason for Palpatine's Chancellorship.

[@Breakdowns04]

I every with Antoine about the loyalist committee. For me, it was Padme that made me not enjoy those sections very much. Something that TCW did really well was portray Padme as a politically astute figure with the ability to sway people to her side. This. portrays her as weak and weepy almost all the time. It just felt more distracting than anything else because I just could not connect with her as part of this collective that was trying to save the Republic from forces within.

[@kestrelraptorial689]

50:00 I think what happened to the Republic by the time of The Phantom Menace is what eventually happens to any government that starts off as a direct and decisive democracy but is allowed to grow. Eventually, it grows idle and politicians spend the majority of their time just trying to stay in their positions and hoarding power rather than actually getting anything done, and had a Separatist government formed that was not puppetmastered by the Sith, it too would have eventually eroded towards the same fate. Maybe not for hundreds of thousands of years, but eventually the same thing would happen.

[@legomoviesstudios8822]

Something I just realized about the films: Empire Strikes Back: most poeple say is the best Attack of the Clones: most say it's the worst The Last Jedi: one half says it's the best, the other half say it's the worst. WOW.

[@TrajGreekFire]

Clone Wars movie - what's that?

[@SuperWindsage]

???? yeah????

[@knallekalle9920]

Episode 9 could be the worst.... or the best.

[@legomoviesstudios8822]

knalle kalle true

[@TrajGreekFire]

knalle kalle or just ok, I guess

[@starnerd1366]

Conner get on that beard man everyone else has one but you

[@primetime798]

Not every man is capable of growing a full beard or much facial hair at all. It is all in the genes....

[@ChaseWatne]

Can you guys please do a fanfic where darth sidious gets exposed early as a Sith Lord for a stupid reason for example: Palpatine: good Anakin good........kill him......kill him now...... Dooku: HES A SITH LORD IN HIDING!!!! Palpatine: ......... Anakin: O_O Palpatine: ummmmm he's lying .......

[@edithume5175]

Evannova wants stories of Grievous being a father.

[@irvingramirez2335]

*SUB*

[@CielBlanche]

44:35 so this explains TLJ Luke

[@AkosKovacs.Author.Musician]

It was the greenmilk, the greenmilk is the key to all of this. Mind=Blown

[@uzzab6937]

Antoine's too cool for Star Wars anymore.

[@kjtj397]

Nigga the one guy that doesn’t like the clone wars ?!

[@Jedi_Spartan]

At this point, I don't think anyone on Fanalysis enjoyed TCW.

[@kjtj397]

Jedi Spartan 38 wow -.- it was a awesome show ?!

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@kjtj397 I think it's the same reason certain people don't like the Halo: Reach campaign.

[@maxmustermann9058]

A lot of fans feel like it does not compare to the original clone wars multimedia project, which had classics like Shatterpoint, the Republic comics or Dark Rendezvous and TCW does contradict a lot of things and made the villains more incompetent than they originally were. Not to say it is a bad show but it tends to be rated lower by Star Wars nerds than by casuals or people that were introduced to Star Wars through it.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@maxmustermann9058 exactly what I was saying with my Halo: Reach comparison. Both are good when viewed from an isolated point or with only the most experienced media of the universe (movies for Star Wars and original games for Halo) but when you get to the expanded lore, they destroy and retcon the events of much loved novels, comics, etc (everything from the Clone Wars multimedia project for Star Wars and parts of The Fall of Reach and First Strike for Halo).

[@dazdavis7896]

Labyrinth of Evil is one of the best Star Wars novels there is. At the beginning you’re all acting like it’s some “sub-par” thing and that’s a joke. Along with the rest of the trilogy, it’s better than any NJO novel by far. (Just had to throw that in there for you all lol). But James luceno is probably thee best Star Wars writer solely behind Lucas himself. This novel and Dark Lord, Plagueis, Unifying Force, the list goes on. He’s phenomenal. Oh, and STOP BITCHING about “bad writing” from Lucas and the prequels. HE wrote the originals too, where’s all the bitching about the bad dialogue there? The blatant whining of Luke throughout the entire film in A New Hope. You’d never do that shit. Never. Revenge of the Sith was By far the greatest Star Wars film made. Easily. I cannot stand listening to cry babies bitching about the prequels. This large scale “prequel hate” was quite literally NEVER real. Ever. It is loudmouthed fools that have a platform screaming and being louder than everyone else. That’s all it ever was. If you ACTUALLY LOOK at the ACTUAL reviews when each one of them came out-even from the critics-we’re all directly along the lines of “the pinnacle of filmmaking, Lucas is a genius”.. And that was from Phantom Menace, let alone Revenge of the Sith. YES Attack of the Clones could have been better; but Revenge of the Sith was as close to a perfect Star Wars film as you can get…. Like I thought this was SUPPOSED to be a review of Labyrinth of Evil, not listening to Antoine Bandele and Reti bitch about the prequels. That literally makes people just want to stop watching altogether. OVER half the fanbase will all say ROTS is by far the best Star Wars film, and Star Wars project/media in general. The majority of the entire fandom will say that clear as day. We don’t wana listen to bitching about how you didn’t like the prequels because you somehow think you could be written them better. Like shut up kid. Evan and Matt are the only ones I can ever actually take serious. Well Connor too when he isn’t bitching about Lucas or some nonsense as well. Lucas MADE it. He IS Star Wars. You like what YOU think Star Wars should be. Your headcanon. You don’t like what Star Wars is and has always been. Clear as day.