Fandom Has A Censorship Problem.

[@_connorsseur]

TL;DR because this comment is long: 8:00 I forgot to clarify the Anime Bath Scene Wiki is not a meme wiki and is extremely well crafted. Props to Watermaiden, who does most of it herself! 28:55 The VisualEditor is an unofficial feature created by MediaWiki. wiki.gg staff are not involved with it. It's the same one as on Fandom, some wikis experience more/less bugs with it. 33:06 Site-wide notice a wiki has forked was never allowed, just the main page mention. What changed is admins can't put the notice on the main page themselves, they need to tell Fandom staff and they'll do it for you. 37:24 The Tumblr post is by Mark Legroom, a Miraheze volunteer. It was reblogged by banished-away, hence the misattribution. I'm not a Tumblr user, sorry! Wiki.gg has since started accepting non-gaming wikis, alleviating one of its biggest downsides. Miraheze has migrated to new servers and is much faster and more stable now, alleviating some concerns I raised in the video. Not a mistake, but typing "wiki.gg" is technically a link so your comment will be automatically flagged by KZbin. Do "wiki. gg" instead to have it go through. Detailed explanations & more: The inaccuracy at 33:06 was pointed out to me by a wiki. gg staff member. They explained: "A site-wide notice was unfortunately never allowed, it was only ever allowed on the main page. Some wikis did this but it was against policy and got removed if/when staff found out. The change in the policy here is that you have to contact Fandom support to tell them you're talking about forking, then they can add a notice to the main page for an indeterminate amount of time to a discussion of forking, but once the fork is completed they can remove the notice, as opposed to what was previously an admin-added notice for up to 2 weeks after the fork. In addition this would also put forks more on Fandom's radar so they can more easily monitor them for anything not in keeping with this policy." It came to light shortly before I was going to release the video, hence the hackneyed fix. And it slipped through because the practice of a site-wide notice was so commonplace among forking wikis, I thought this was something Fandom permitted. (It's also quite silly-- what's Fandom going to do? Ban the people leaving their platform?) Sorry about that! They also had another correction, and a bit of trivia: "34:20 The idea of getting rid of ads by doing a bunch of edits is actually an old Gamepedia program (PRO). Logged-in users not getting ads is actually a normal Fandom feature and has been for years. As they say, it is simply bringing the old Gamepedia wikis in-line with the rest of the platform (why it took them 5 years to do this I have no idea). However the way they phrase this is misleading: you don't get ads removed simply by making an account, you also have to go to your preferences and select the option to disable ads. And this one is not a correction but more of just some trivia. 32:48 Sly references another comment made by the same staff user who wrote the blog post, where they claim that one of the reasons for this new policy is that there was link spam happening on "any Terraria-related ZH wiki". I don't know what wikis are being referred to here, because there's no record of it on the main Terraria ZH wiki or the 2 mod wikis I know of, and the staff user did not respond when asked for diffs. We know there was indeed some link spam prior to the blog post, but not on the mentioned wikis. The policy is also still in effect almost 2 months later." Regarding the visual editor, another wiki. gg staff member corrected me: "We are not developing it, it is being developed by MediaWiki. The VisualEditor on our platform is the exact same as on Fandom. It is just as buggy on both platforms, as it is still in Beta, however, some wikis, experience less bugs with it than others, or admins are ok with fixing the issues it causes. I forgot to record a couple pieces of voice over and noticed them when doing subtitles. SO here they are below with timecodes on where that'd have gone. 8:00 Context: This excerpt was meant to clarify that the Anime Bath Scene Wiki is a genuinely impressive catalog of a perplexingly common trope in anime, and it’s NOT some silly meme wiki. “This wiki’s earliest iterations began in 2005 on Blogspot, but the actual wiki page was not on Wikia (what became Fandom) until Dec 3rd, 2009. To clarify, the anime bath scenes wiki is not trying to be a pornographic wiki. It is an objective and comprehensive documentation of a trope far more omnipresent in anime than many realize. Context leading up to, descriptions of scenes, and numerous organizational tags can be found on its more than 4,361 pages and counting. The bar of quality for this wiki's content is genuinely impressive, and serves as a fantastic role model. With this in mind, it is nigh impossible to see it as a low-effort hub for titillating imagery.” Something similar, yet smaller happened at 20:58 where I left out a sentence stating the “merge” has dealt irreparable damage despite the wiki not even being on Fandom anymore, which provided context on why I talk about the blurgender page suddenly. Things like this are unfortunately bound to slip through when I’m doing this largely on my own. I’ll keep better track of things and get those familiar with the fields to review scripts going forwards. And sorry for the comment essay lol. First.

[@Chubby_Bub]

The addition to the forking policy of "you can't fork without telling us first, then we'll tell you if you can put a template up" is such obvious and terrible bait. If you ask for the template I virtually guarantee they'll just ban you instead.

[@_connorsseur]

@@Chubby_Bub In my experience they don't ban anyone that forks. I was just quietly stripped of my administrative privileges on the Fear & Hunger Wiki by the time they finally noticed. And technically we'd broken the rules with a sitewide notice I believe haha. But I do agree with the wiki.gg member the change is likely to help keep tabs on forking wikis. Moot point though, considering the only punishment they could serve is a ban on a platform you're deliberately leaving.

[@toolittletoolate]

A minor detail but important personally is 50 shades isn't BDSM, that's an abusive relationship. A failed twilight fanfic has convinced the next generation that abuse is a kink.

[@fffff702]

​@@_connorsseuryou need to delete this video immediately because there is a cringe disclaimer at the beginning what happens if you find out that a "minor" has seen it How will you punish him? with the arrest? with the court? with the ban the fact is that the video contains none of this and is only put up to annoy you and minors will see it to annoy you the worst thing is that people, instead of criticizing the disclaimer and making comments like this, make comments relating to the video itself then I remind you that there are much worse things for children like Jurassic Park or Gremlins tell me what the purpose of that disclaimer is and you need to delete the video in less than 10 seconds

[@Nerdy1729]

@@fffff702 ????? he isn't suggesting punishing minors who watch it. he is simply saying that the content was made without family friendliness in mind. It's a 10 second disclaimer at the beginning, at the start of a well researched video. Of course no one is talking about the disclaimer. Also, some adult viewers may also not want to see this video. Also also, there are mentions of the things talked about in the disclaimer.

[@hanthegene]

my dislike towards Fandom only increased when I tried researching something and 90% of the search results was irrelevant Fandom wikis that happened to have the Fandom wiki for the topic in their "Fan Feed". the Fandom wiki for the topic, of course, is in a dismal state and could not help my research at all. their SEO not only puts low-quality Fandom wikis above other sources that are higher quality, it floods search results with completely irrelevant wikis.

[@dakat5131]

Reminds me of when searching images on Google, most of the results would be re-uploads on Pintrest, which don't have any information about the source and sometimes the links didn't even actually have the image that was in the thumbnail

[@e2b265]

You can literally look up water in Minecraft wiki and you’ll get 100 wikis about some games with the word water in them.

[@MotherLover1984]

​@@dakat5131 Google image search used to be so powerful when I was a teen I have no idea why they changed it

[@hanthegene]

@@dakat5131 I hate to say that even Pinterest has been more useful to me in my research than these Fan Feeds that just clutter up search results with non-information.

[@Arexion5293]

But.. everything can be a fetish. Anything and everything can appeal to people in such a manner when abstracted and filtered through one's imagination in the right way. So if the idea is that it's an issue if a wiki will please someone's interests, then everything falls under that category. Only difference is the size of the 'audience'. If the idea meanwhile is that the fetish itself should not be discussed, none of these cases fall under that as they do not delve into the psychology of such a kink and the theory behind the whole phenomenon. If the idea is that smut isn't to be written, why is 50 Shades of Grey there? The rule doesn't work in any manner. They should've instead stated that the text must fall under an age rating or something, which too is made of blurry ever changing subjective lines, but at least then the logic would be a little bit more consistent. And if there's an age rating rule, you can put age ratings on the wikis and that way better categorize them. ... But I guess the share holders and sponsors want a specific image, so that won't do. This is all stupid.

[@eightcoins4401]

I mean, how are you supposed to scroll down to the bottom of ANY fandom wiki to begin with? Most of the site is covered up in autoplaying pop up video ads.

[@_connorsseur]

Lol, good point!

[@PineappleDealer37]

"Encyclopedias are not entertainment" well... they are to a degree. Have you never found yourself looking for a single piece of information you were curious about on wikipedia, then via hyperlinks within that article started to read about other subjects more and more and at some point you realised you were there to look what a "enclave" is and now you find yourself reading about the great hungarian statesman Miklós Horthy?

[@_connorsseur]

I most definitely have! What I meant by that comment was that wikis should not be treated as entertainment by the companies hosting it. To a user, they can sometimes serve that purpose. But to the hosts, they should not think of it as such-- that leads to damaging editorializing from Fandom and attempts to keep viewers reading as long as possible for the sole purpose of generating maximum profits.

[@PineappleDealer37]

@@_connorsseur yes, I agree

[@_-Lx-_]

I love the novelty deranged niche amatuer wikis, often about nonsensical fanfiction. The kinda of absurd wiki's MagicMush showed in his video on the topic of the weirdest wikis around. Sometimes it's just funny looking through random pages of Wiki's, Whether they been profesionally organized and credible on tiny obscure lore details about the Sonic Comics, Uneeded atructure like the relieving fact that Huey Duey and Luey have their status as alive on the Disney Wiki, Or deranged fanfics and irony and insanity of bizzare Wiki's made by children.

[@lyvenex]

wikis have always been a curious part of the internet for me. people sink so much time, effort, and skill into maintaining these sites and its genuinely so cool! it really is sad and a little sickening that fandom holds little to no regard for the people who's work they profit off of. i hope in the future more wikis can be made outside of fandom's clutches. an in-development game i follow managed to dodge the fandom bullet thanks to people being more aware of its bs, and was actually initially hosted on miraheze! unfortunately that scare of a shutdown prompted the admin to host it independently instead, which isn't a bad thing, just a very weird happening in hindsight now that miraheze is still alive lol. but yeah, i've been contributing some stuff to it alongside other eager people following the game. i need more people to hop on the wiki train, its fun!

[@kebasnaek4129]

I'm in multiple communities that had to move their wikis off of fandom, so this is a very prevalent problem that I am glad more people are getting eyes on. As a fun fact, one of those communities attempted to delete their former fandom wiki via the head admin contacting fandom directly. They were given a response that, I'm not joking, said that the wiki could not be deleted as "We need the Ad Revenue that comes from the views on your wiki", and *every editor on that fandom wiki was banned* not long after. (I believe that wiki is now under control of some kid, as there's seemingly only one editor on it now, and a lot of the newer edits are full of spelling errors and full-on made-up information.)

[@_connorsseur]

That is strangely transparent for Fandom, lol.

[@ExtremeWreck]

That legitimately sounds awful. I am so sorry for you, having to go through such a horrific experience with FANDOM.

[@randomlittleidot]

just wondering, what wiki is that

[@luka9967]

a lot of abandoned fandom wikis were filled with misinformation and mistakes to force people to stop using fandom, the biggest example of this is the calamity mod fandom wiki, another good example is the rain world fandom wiki

[@Chubby_Bub]

Fandom's claims about caring for their communities are obvious BS, and their business structure is antithetical to the user-generated content they supposedly exist for. They claim they don't want competing wikis when they're the one keeping it up when the will of a community is to fork, and that it would be unfair to shut down forked wikis or provide notice-- meanwhile, when they bought Gamepedia they moved the domains of, archived and locked their inferior versions of wikis for Zelda and Minecraft (both of which forked again for obvious reasons). To this day these husks remain up so they can appear in search results with a big "We've Moved!" message.

[@nesmario123]

i will never forgive fandom for killing the trollpasta wiki

[@thischannelisajoke6810]

I remember when that happened

[@ninjacat230]

they WHAT

[@ricksmithtahliasmith4121]

Uhhh is there nudity on zenless zone zeros wiki ?

[@_shinga]

Great video, that deserves a lot more attention! I also want to point out that there are independent wiki networks out there that can provide assistance with forking, self hosting and basically anything else in the wiki ecosystem so that everyone should be able start or fork a wiki without being caught in the fandom pit.

[@_connorsseur]

I half kind of acknowledged them in the video, with some of the NIWA wikis being mentioned in the 49 forked image, but yes! They definitely deserve praise for their work. Nintendo wikis never fail to impress

[@GeneralNuisance00]

Fandom Wiki admin here - I also advise creating independent wikis in cases where a Wiki is poorly maintained. The wiki I admin on (UTAU Fandom Wiki) has a decade-long issue with poor maintenance/page quality due to most of the team jumping ship about a decade before I came on. I've been trying to clean this up but it is thousands of pages, and simply untenable at this point. A sister Wiki of ours, Vocaloid Wiki, is riddled with misinformation, some of which is just straight up racism, due to a really terrible admin being at the head for a while. Sometimes it really is best to clean the slate fully and go independent, I myself have been considering this for a while.

[@_connorsseur]

@@GeneralNuisance00 yeah sometimes that's for the best. It can be such a mess running a wiki lol. Best of luck to you! Situations like that are tough to clean up.

[@idioticone2349]

Censorship of content like this is almost never good and always aggravating. It WOULD be a different story if this stuff was never allowed, but it was, and it even had 18+ warnings. This only keeps adding to where more and more spaces become like this and it isnt healthy. Especially on a platform like fandom, where logging fandoms and archiving information should be the priority, not wiping some from existence

[@thefailtrain08]

I know it would have made the video even longer for a site that isn't even the main focus, but fextralife is *incredibly* notorious for a number of reasons beyond what you mentioned with lack of updates. Not only do they slap together a "good enough" wiki and abandon it almost instantly (most visible in the case of Fromsoft games, which heavily rely on player discovery and consensus over time) but they ALSO embed the fextralife twitch stream on every page to inflate viewer numbers there. 9k viewers and their chat is as slow as some sub-100 nobody.

[@_connorsseur]

Yeah I heard about that after releasing the vid. I just didn't want to do a super deep dive on something that looked like hot garbage at a glance lol. Highly doubt anyone will watch my video and consider it as a viable alternative.

[@tigaliyt]

Fun fact, Gamepedia pre-acquisition by FANDOM used to pull the same shite! I believe some streamers complained about it because they didn't ask for it and it made them look shady because of the disconnect between viewership and engagement.

[@_connorsseur]

@@tigaliyt You said the fact was fun :(

[@tigaliyt]

@@_connorsseur My bad ^^'

[@zachabel805]

Glad u took a nuanced approach to the subject, many would dismiss these cases as trivial or not worth pursuing for many are indifferent or dislike the fanservice culture in regards to the anime censorship, or think the site is woke or sum shi like that because of their supposed pro lgbt+ stance. Even if i do not agree with everything the old LGBT posted, its incredibly invalidating and invasive to erase the contribuitions and expressions of a queer person when its deemed as unnaceptable by a third party who has control on what is allowed to stay on.

[@_connorsseur]

I'm glad to hear I didn't mangle the issue! One point I maybe should've made was how the old LGBT wiki DID have issues, but it's not Fandom's place to moderate it. It's the community's. An external party isn't going to be able to tackle such an issue with the necessary tact and thoughtfulness. The fact that Fandom believes it could insert itself to "fix a problem" is incredibly out of line, and extremely upsetting to see.

[@pory-z]

well now we know how to delete old wikias that already migrated : fill em with porn and fandom will finally delete them lmao

[@GameMaker3_5]

Assuming Fandom doesn't just revert those changes...

[@fezcrystal9]

​@@GameMaker3_5 unless someone makes a bot/script that reverses THOSE

[@GamextraMC]

Necropost here- well they don't want to get in trouble because a 13-year-old is one click away from porn lol

[@huldanoren951]

I'm an admin and prolific editor of a small Fandom wiki for a very niche TV show, and all of this is so incredibly disheartening. Our wiki is loved and widely used by the small community the show has and images from it are frequently posted on its official Facebook group. It's even been used and endorsed by the director and actors, who are quite active in the community. Despite this, me and my friend who's also an admin are largely the only active editors on it, so the site often goes into long times of inactivity when life gets in the way for both of us. We already have fairly bad SEO and it has to compete with the show's Wikipedia page for the top spot, so forking would probably be a death sentence. I really wish there was an easy way for us to escape this hell of a website, but for our tiny team that doesn't work constantly, that's near impossible.

[@Kiri68419]

Forking is still worth it. If a community is THAT tight-knit, you probably quite easily get everyone to move over to using the non-fandom one by just telling everyone. That's been the plan for the Wiki I'm admin for, anyway. Once you've forked and made everything look presentable just share the link lile wildfire and get a Daisy chain of passing it on. If your wiki is small enough you can probably even get away with nuking content of a few pages and just having it lead to a link to the new one, as long as the link is somewhat Disguised (eg in a banner template on the page or maybe have all info in an infobox link to the new one). Trust me, we had thr same dilemma as you, the whole "show is too niche/small to get off fandom" thing being the only reason we didn't want to leave, but upon getting approached by another fan about moving the wiki off of fandom, we saw that the demand was there and thus started the process.

[@huldanoren951]

@@Kiri68419 Yes, I do plan to take advantage of our tightknit community if we decide to fork. However, us not having enough reach is exactly what my friend has been worried about. But I've migrated another even smaller wiki I was the sole admin of and have managed fly under Fandom's radar so far. I used it as a proof of concept for my friend when I suggested migrating, but he wasn't convinced. Luckily, he's still open to the possibility. So if we decide to migrate, I'll use your advice!

[@jaceyoftheplains3750]

I was very recently able to delete a (very small) wiki I had made on Fandom, though I had to pretty much say "I'm the only person that cares about this place, get rid of the shit" in order to make it happen.

[@_connorsseur]

Lucky! It's unfortunately very hard to get Fandom to delete wikis, even if a community is overwhelmingly onboard with the request

[@PineappleDealer37]

One funny thing I'd like to say There's this wiki called "FTB wiki", which covers a tone of minecraft mods included in the FTB modpacks For a very long time, there existed two FTB wikis, the official one - hosten on fandom; and the unofficial one - not hosted on fandom And, funny thing is, the unofficial FTB wiki in my opinion was always better, as it had much more information about more obscure mods, as it did not only cover the official FTB modpacks, but also a lot of the more popular third party ones hosted together with the official ones.

[@PineappleDealer37]

Apparently the Unofficial FTB wiki is also self hosted so a pro for them.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

See, the unofficial one actually has recipes, but it isn't as useful as a guide, which old or obscure mods don't usually have.

[@1gient]

15:05 that phrase will forever remind me of a meme that floated around Tumblr during the NSFW nuking of a "female presenting nipples". 29:57 from personal experience the ads are so bad that I have yet to use the wiki on a computer that didn't start bursting into flames and I can't even try to access the site with a phone. Puts a lot of the most intensive games to shame. It's become the new Crysis test.

[@_connorsseur]

I was in fact referencing that meme at the same time with that phrase, haha. Because yes, it's ridiculous for all the reasons I detailed.

[@_-Lx-_]

​@@_connorsseur I am still unsure if Tumblr or such were even saying the phrase in reference in a nipple belonging to a femmine presenting person or a woman showing her nipples. It can be interpreted either way and is baffling worded and confusing for both. The way the phrase was said is peak unclear poorly worded anti audience out of touch PR Speak. There's a reason why that string of 3 words has gone down in semi infamy, LMAO.

[@Cool_Kid95]

I don't like FANDOM's removal of NSFW wikis either. They removed a very nostalgic wiki to me. Its end was tragic.

[@CienciaAlPoder]

Nice video. There were also the case of the uncyclopedias (parody of Wikipedia), that were also shut down on May 14, 2019, giving ~2 months to get their content somewhere else.

[@_connorsseur]

Yeah, unfortunately, there's even more that I didn't cover. Hopefully, this video prompts others to bring those situations to light, as I could only fit so much in. And thanks for your work on wikis :)

[@hanakikoi]

God, I don't use wiki's very often, so I've just become aware of this issue since I got into Darkest Dungeon at the end of last year. This video and the one referenced were actually what showed a lazy me that there was a better way. Thank you so much for not only wiki work, but for pointing me towards the light.

[@LKHooray]

I'm queer, know a bunch of queers and some of them literally research queer history officially. The rage I have for the lgbtaq+ wiki makes me boil with rage. Not only is it putting the history and terminally of a community in the hands of a fucking MEDIA COMPANY but it also fucks up just documentation of stuff in the community. I'm transgender but I still know people today that identify as transexual because they either are from the time period that had that as the official term or because modern people that uses the term feel an infinity for it as a part of the communities history that they want to live on, there is also sadly people that identify as it because they're trans people that think you can only be trans if you go through all of the medical transitioning process that are nasty about it. All these things need to be labelled and documented but the last part is where I don't trust fandom because that's going into the more fighting side of things in our community. For the transgender page maybe this will be well documented but for more "unpopular" pages I only see a big "fuck you guys you ain't making us money to care" being responded to any issues they may have. But now I also know they fucked over the old communities moderators in their process of stealing the wiki. Fandom should never fucking touch this pages it is insulting to group the existence of real people lives and the hardships they may face are now on the same site as star wars like they are similar. Fandom is directly doing this because they wanna profit off the queer community and young queer people that might be scared and confused looking for answers.

[@lpfan4491]

I believe it is genuinely better to prepare a wiki on your own and sit on it for an indeterminate amount of time until you can selfhost, rather than open a Fandom Wiki. Having a fandomwiki is a lose/lose, either you open it and nobody including yourself ever contributes(German earthbound wiki celebrated 50 articles in 2012 shorly after opening. They have like 53 now, lmao) or it manages to become a good wiki that is bogged down due to being trapped on a bad provider.

[@_connorsseur]

Interestingly this is what is generally required for new languages to be added to a wiki. I believe it's to help weed out the individuals who underestimate the colossal workload they're taking on, so it's far less likely to end up abandoned.

[@shiftingorbits]

I used to edit on wikia about 10ish years ago, so I can vouch about how much work goes into an article. I used to spend days (or weeks) as a kid trying to make sure articles were accurate because it was my favorite thing to do. The main wikia I was on is dead now, mostly because me and my friends as admins basically had to beg wikia to delete it back in 2016/2017. They wouldn't, so we just nuked everything and abandoned our accounts. I think it got deleted back when fandom became a thing because no one managed it. Honestly, I don't envy wikia editors nowadays. I remember the weeks of work I'd put into an article under the premise that people who were interested would read it, but if I had wikia staff fighting me every step of the way, I think I'd have left wikia sooner than I did. this video honestly makes me feel a lot more seen as a former editor, because it was my favorite thing to do as a kid. it's just awful to see this happen. edit: should probably elaborate that the reason we deleted most of our work was in protest, honestly. it was a creative works wiki among friends that was being vandalized, and we got zero response from wikia. no one came to our wikia for information, it was just...kind of cringe story writing looking back on it. the lack of ability to delete something was just so undeniably awful that we all thought it best to delete everything and leave a few articles explaining our reasoning, and a disclaimer on the front page. it was a bad time, and one I don't recommend. I've considered joining a friend in maintaining a wiki about their comic, but I also remember the kind of stuff that happened with wikia being genuinely hostile towards me and my friends asking to delete the wikia that I just...don't feel comfortable

[@SnoFitzroy]

It's very funny to me that people still use the term "wikia" to refer to individual wikis. That's like calling every video game "a Nintendo"

[@shiftingorbits]

@SnoFerret_85 that's just what they called fandom wikis ten years ago lol, I just call it what I knew it by. one of the most popular ones that I remember back then was the MLP wikia for example, had the assets and everything for the wikia moniker lol

[@lpfan4491]

@@SnoFitzroy Some search results still call them Wikias. Heck, they call them "Fandoms" now, which just sounds dumb.

[@willytor7899]

how is fandom purchasing gamepedia not completely against antitrust laws. also i did not recognize your username at first but when i saw it next to your pfp on discord i swear ive seen it before somewhere

[@_connorsseur]

Antitrust laws make no sense lol. Disney continually buys up tons of companies for example. No clue what those laws even do anymore. I've done some modding for the binding of Isaac, and the dead cells biome map. Aside from that I can't think of anywhere you may have spotted me, I'm a bit of a recluse on discord admittedly lol

[@willytor7899]

must be isaac then @@_connorsseur

[@sierra1513]

The ruling class aren't scared enough of revolution to give a shit about nonsense like "anti-trust" laws, that's the only reason they were implement in the first place, along with basically anything FDR did

[@SkigBiggler]

Antitrust laws are complicated beasts, and what qualifies as engaging in monopolistic practices is heavily dependent on context, but frankly the main reason is that the USA has not seriously made any attempt to break up a monopoly since the Microsoft case. It’s a mixture of lobbying, revolving door politics and lack of understanding of digital monopoly shit by those in power.

[@SkigBiggler]

@@_connorsseurunfortunately, the government needs to decide to sue for those laws to matter. If the laws aren’t enforced they aren’t very effective

[@wormfanatic]

i know it’s not the main topic, but i just started watching and i can’t help but admire your involvement with your wikis, particularly the fear and hunger one. such wikis are so expansive and detailed, so i just want to thank you here for your help :)! keep up the good work, takeshi’s challenge guy. i had no idea you had your hands so full

[@_connorsseur]

Thanks! Like I said in the video, I'm much less active on them nowadays, but I'm still proud of all I contributed and do little things to help when I can

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

never forget what they did to the lolpasta/trollpasta wiki.

[@cyberteaaa]

Trollpasta Wiki is currently hosted on Miraheze btw

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

@@cyberteaaa almost all images from things that weren't famous were lost, however. stories like blood whistle stooges whose images were very important to the comedy of the story are now forever missing.

[@Erinsushygushy]

26:41 you can also type “-fandom” (importantly minus the quotes) at the end or anywhere on your search then you’ll never see fandom, or the word fandom.

[@Pleasestoptalkingthanks]

Creepypasta Admin and long time user here. We're currently having a stand off with the corpos because they're censoring any and every naughty word they can, regardless of context or warnings already accessible on site. We need more people to speak up about this.

[@_connorsseur]

@@Pleasestoptalkingthanks Yeesh, that's rough. Meanwhile they completely leave Fear & Hunger's old wiki alone despite being vandalized with all sorts of inappropriate content... the priorities of this company are something else lol

[@emilyivy7664]

As someone whos been into vocaloid, this has been getting worse and worse on the fandom wikis. At first it was just "this article may have offensive content and may be taken down" (or something along those lines, i dont remember exactly. Sorry lol) which hey. Thats fair enough. Usually it was just any song that may (or definitely does) allude to sex which... felt odd but fair enough. Slowly it just got worse and worse and articles were actually getting deleted or censored, making it harder to look for things. I'm being honest here, censoring the original text so the people making an article dont get their asses kicked is awful for... a lot of reasons? Good luck trying to translate a song when an entire line is *'d out in ALL of the language columns. Thankfully vocadb is a great alternative and is way better about all this. Also i very much understand it is not the fault of the people assembling the wiki, they have to adhere to certain guidelines and im thankful they even did the work theyve done.

[@_connorsseur]

I've been hearing from other comments song lyrics are a bit of a disaster in general on Fandom. The monster girl wiki's I could at least understand somewhat because there's images, but SONG LYRICS??? C'mon, man... lol

[@IgirlbossedTooCloseToTheSun]

Yeah I remember going to the page for the song "That Woman" ft Kagamine Rin and there was an entire chunk just asterisked and when I looked at the eng translation on vocaDB it was really not anything worth asterisking like that and it just... ugh :(

[@puppable]

The LGBT wiki issue is exactly the danger of corporate pride. Powerful organizations sweeping away everything your own community built, to replace it with their own "experts" _in_ your community.

[@robertwyatt3912]

Fandom has an EVERYTHING problem

[@WahRizz]

Great video. I get why sites wanna be ad friendly. But vague rules seriously annoy me. Why cant they outright say it? Are they scared?

[@_connorsseur]

It's probably more to do with legal reasons. Being specific with anything is grounds for trouble, so there's just vague statements about everything that gives the company full discretion and power over every situation. Which is great for them! But obviously not the users. It's nothing specific to Fandom, unfortunately.

[@WahRizz]

@@_connorsseur oh okay, that makes sense! Thank you

[@lajenehuen260]

This "User" person sure is a hard worker! There's so many places they appear in.

[@_connorsseur]

The real unsung hero of wikis!

[@superpsychic]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE FOR THE FUNGER WIKI !!!! amazing video as well!!

[@fryingpanem]

Wasn't expecting a Mossbag shoutout! Too bad the Hollow Knight community sacrificed him to Team Cherry

[@rgbfall]

COMPLETELY AGREE!!! I was a former editor on both the LGBTA wiki and thr Ezgender wiki and NEITHER were informed of the wikis deletion. The Ezgender wiki (even though it was supposed to take on the pages from all the other wikis) ended up leaving fandom as well because of this forced closure, and afaik the ezgender wiki no longer exists on fandom. Its now the mogai wiki on miraheze. I'm also now an administrator for my own miraheze wiki, the JRWIki, which im making as an alternative for the one on fandom! I way prefer miraheze to fandom it is so much better...

[@juanrodriguez9971]

31:31 Bro, how is it possible for the SV creator to be such a god creator? I literally only hear good things about him, when for most creators I only hear about them when they do something bad, at best He is such a role model that anyone should aim to be like

[@_connorsseur]

He's a great role model for sure! I remember years ago asking him random questions in twitter DMs and he took the time to thoughtfully respond to all of them. Was WILD. Ofc now I know better than to pester busy people like that, but it meant a lot to me

[@ExtremeWreck]

I feel like this is what's happening with The Dubbing Database. The "unknown information" categories no longer work as they should & as a result researching unknown dubs is much harder than it was before January 2024. Absolutely freakin' horrid... like that freakin' British cartoon that SOMEHOW made it stateside without much controversy. And this is why TVTropes still needs to exist. For the love of humanity, people really need to give that site some new life because it feels abandoned right now.

[@samsonm6455]

TV Tropes still has an active user base, it's just that the wiki isn't as well-known and talked about as it was back in the early to mid 2010's.

[@DX35]

The inconsistency is just because of their xenophobia against Japan.

[@theotherjared9824]

I have worked with many independant wikis over the years, even directly contributing to some manuals of style (albeit with geurilla methods that end up becoming the standard.) I appreciate that I can just address an issue with a page and be done with it without the red tape of making a fandom account and waiting for it to be approved. Some of my edits get reverted, which is fine since I am always given an objective reason by a moderator and I am free to talk directly to said moderator to challenge their ruling. What I don't appreciate on fandom is a borderline conspiratorial reason of the edit being inappropriate despite containing factual information explained in the most encyclopedic way possible.

[@cannon9009]

Being the admin of a Fear & Hunger wiki must be one hell of a time. Imagine all the shit you gotta see in there

[@memetal5094]

As a fan of Fear and Hunger, the fandom wiki was both a blessing and a curse. It make the game so much better, teaching me valuable mechanics and interactions that made the game my current favourite survival horror game of all time. It also taught me a LOT of wrong information. This is by no means a fault of the many dedicated editors, but it shows how little fandom cared even before the great vandalism (tm) occurred. That rant about F&H also hit close to home. Thank you for contributing to the game, it honestly means a lot.

[@Late0NightPC]

I really hate how there are some games that are simply so niche that there is no incentive for anyone to actually make a non-fandom based wiki for them, like the Project Moon titles(LobotomyCorp, Library of Ruina, Limbus Company), or the wiki itself is so massive that it's far too much effort to do so. The League of Legends wikis suffer a lot from the latter, as there are several different wikis for different aspects of the franchise, like one for the core game, one for the card game, one for TFT, one for the lore/world, and they are all inter-connected, making creating a new wiki for any one of them an insanely massive endeavor that seemingly no one feels up to. I'd love nothing more than to never have to use the Path of Champions fandom wiki when I'm playing, but I often need to get info, and there's no other option, leaving my only choice as Fandom...

[@Florjb0rjTheFloorboard]

There's a game called Death's Gambit: Afterlife, and the only wiki is Fandom, and even that's barebones

[@x-gameslegendplayer]

I found yesterday about Breezewiki. It allows you to see Fandom content without ads and IndieWiki Buddy extension supports It. For me, the major problem of Fandom is the amount of Cookies - from Amazon, eBay, and many others that I never heard of, like 1plusX AG and 33Across. They even use Geolocalization Cookies. That's why they ask If you're an adult or a kid. Edit: And checking privacy policy, they even collect the amount of time and frequency you spent in a determined page, and where you click. :/

[@vizthex]

bro mentioned the MGE wiki and i instantly knew why fandom would take them down 💀

[@toolittletoolate]

14:10 That is entirely incorrect. That is not BDSM. That is an abusive relationship. Please do not spread misinformation that being abused is BDSM. There are scenes that have beginnings and ends, things are discussed before hand and there is after care, None of those things happen in 50 shades. It's just a man abusing a woman. An entire generation of people have been lead to believe being abused is somehow a kink, I can't blame you for being a product of that but I have to try and educate.

[@_connorsseur]

I agree that 50 shades of grey is simply depicting abuse, and is by no means representative of a healthy relationship, BDSM or otherwise. I do believe that the story is *attempting* to depict a BDSM relationship, however-- it's just an immensely toxic one, as it's written by someone with no knowledge on the subject (and also presumptuous and ignorant enough to publish such a harmful depiction). It's a lot of clarification that I didn't see as relevant to the video, since I wasn't endorsing the franchise or analyzing it in detail. I was simply noting the popularity it accrued, and the graphic nature of the content while remaining on Fandom's platform (when other examples were removed for doing less). Personally, I have nothing positive to say about the franchise, and especially not its author. It's a perfect example of what not to do in regards to both BDSM, and writing about a subject you have no direct experience with.

[@JoseGarrigaDX]

THAT’s GoING TO BE THE COLLISION POINT WIKI!!!!! And the Fandom production 😂😂😂

[@cornshot9857]

passion oozes from your video, bravo!

[@PokeMaster22222]

Honestly, I really do wish more wikis could go the GG or Miraheze routes, or that existing non-Fandom wikis would improve. My biggest example of this is the Fire Emblem Wiki, an independent wiki that's part of NIWA - that's great and all, but in terms of visual appeal and (more importantly) actual content, it's leagues behind the FE Fandom wiki. Unless the independent one improves, I have no real choice but to rely on Fandom's version, which absolutely sucks for everyone. Like, I use Bulbapedia very frequently, and the Zelda Wiki and Pikipedia (Legend of Zelda and Pikmin), along with Smash Wiki (Super Smash Bros.), are also fantastic - it's just that the Fire Emblem Wiki isn't.

[@_connorsseur]

@@PokeMaster22222 yeah, I get the struggle. It's unfortunately just a matter of whether or not somebody knowledgable with CSS can lend a hand with the visual portion of a wiki-- which I'll admit, I'm pretty helpless at haha. It leaves certain wikis stuck with lackluster presentations unless somebody who knows enough can help out. And one perk of fandom is a *bit* more customizability without needing CSS, but also it comes at the cost of other visual restrictions like the sidebar and stuff so... it's a pain, basically lol.

[@DragonTamerCos]

Hello, this a beautifully written video and an amazing example of how to cite sources in a video format. However, I do have concern about them: You directly link to mutable webpages / "living" documents, e.g "Community Creation Policy" on fandom. However, this is a bad idea, because it makes you vulnerable to link rot. Fandom's TOS will someday change, and you will need to change the link to a contemporaneous archive link or an * with "its since change, I don't have a link to the source i spoke about in this video". Since you'll probably either just abandon the sources, or move them over to archive links at some point in the future anyway, i recommend backing them up on wayback :).

[@_connorsseur]

EDIT: Done :) was way easier and faster than I thought it'd be. Will be sure to do that for big projects going forwards! (Deleted my old comment cause its irrelevant now)

[@Leonidash15]

I grew a burning passion against Fandom Wikies! Started with their JUNK Design that assaults my eyes (even with Ublock filters on) but also on the part of the Censorship! There is an Indie LGBT Game I keep an eye on aimed for Gay men (it has A LOT 18+ material), and recently I discovered the game has a Wiki... in the FANDOM! Why are you having your NSFW Gay game in a CORPORATE WIKI that is against NSFW and Gays!? 😩

[@_connorsseur]

Realistically, it's probably because someone who didn't know about Fandom's shenanigans created it and didn't know an alternative wiki existed (or it just wasn't around at the time) and Fandom doesn't actively moderate their content unless it's a huge easy to spot target. That's their general trend, but consistently inconsistent is their thing so maybe they'll surprise us and crack down on more obscure content in time.

[@Leonidash15]

@@_connorsseur Yeah unfortunately, and it doesn't help it's the most known GOTO wiki even years ago! As I see it right now having a WIKI there for a mature games is a Ticking time bomb waiting to happen.

[@archduke0000]

Fandom has an everything problem. Terrible, ad ridden platform.

[@watchrandomuser395onyoutube]

I remember one day going to the old terraria wiki and being utterly perplexed by the horrible new user interface and just quitting the game for 5-6 months (this was during my first playthough of the game in 1.3) I know that’s the day i found the fandom terraria wiki, although i’m not sure what terraria wiki i used before. I think it might be gamepedia, but i’m not sure. I vividly remember being awestruck at the unintuitive UI and just quitting the game for a while.

[@G-Forces]

I really appreciate you being pro trans rights. I this is my first time watching your channel and I have tended to be really hesitant to watch channels that I haven't before in the last few months with the extreme transphobia that's happening in the world.

[@_connorsseur]

Trans rights are human rights :)

[@halobrother5566]

as if I needed more reasons to dislike and avoid the fandom wiki like the plague 🙄 thank you for the knowledge and the extension recommendations man. Im really proud of what you've been putting out 🥲

[@UPGAX]

Couldn't agree more

[@Hydroxen]

and now they are letting a fandom star who literally has CLEAR evidence of being a horrible person stay on the website (the fandom star I'm referring to is also a pedo and fandom refuses to do anything because the evidence is from discord)

[@drcgad3052]

Monster girls I dig em “They require human semen to live” Not that kind of monster girls!

[@AccelShades]

I had no idea that there was a lot more problems with this site until I saw your and Moss's video. My friend is having a problem with staff siding with bullies and harassers. The bullies lied about and planned to take down the wiki my friend created about a gay ship, all because they were prejudice against it and angry that they got blocked due to harassing and vandalism. They planned in public on another wiki and in that wiki's discord to abuse the staff and the site's vague rules to take down the whole wiki. They also did this while continuing to harass and insult my friend. They were only able to take down a few pages, with one of them just mentioning the differences in official content between countries, all based on the main lie that the wiki was attacking the company the ship comes from for not supporting the ship when in reality, the company did support the ship and the wiki was pointing that out. Despite the evidence and because my friend reported them, the staff took the side of the bullies that they talked to, and believed them over my friend who showed all the evidence of the bullies maliciously wanting to doing this. It seems their mindset was that if it caused problems, they don't want it, even if it didn't go against their vague rules. Even worse, the main bully, even though he was banned temporarily, gloated about taking down the pages and said it was worth his ban. He said he'll continue doing this until the whole wiki is gone. The staff merely fueled this bully's ego. My friend was stuck between having these harassers continue with harassing to no end, or reporting them and risking getting the whole or parts of the wiki getting taken down. Thanks to just a small group of bullies, the wiki's fate is now on the line.

[@_connorsseur]

I'm sorry to hear that. Your friend could try a new fork of the wiki on Miraheze, they'll accept anything that's actively maintained and doesn't fall under hate speech. And even if a page is deleted I believe you can still view the past revisions of the page, so while tedious I think even the deleted contents could be salvaged

[@AccelShades]

@@_connorsseur Ah, thank you. I'll be sure to let my friend know about it. That'll help a lot since like others, the pages were deleted without consultation or warning. I hope more others don't go through the same thing.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

The non Fanodm Wikis I already use a lot don't have what Network they're apart of in their URL, chiefly DetectiveConanWorld and Tolkien Gateway so how do I even figure out which Network to support?

[@LuneEvenfall]

Detectiveconanworld is such a good wiki too. Comphrehensive and you can find basically fucking ANYTHING on there. Including lists of voice actors for every minor character in every episode. Insane.

[@nerpalover420]

godd i remember when the lgbt wiki shit went down. they obviously did Not give two fucks about the community LMFAO

[@ComputerGirlMae]

hey you replied to another comment on here and i dont want to start a shitstorm in youtube replies but, "bi lesbian" is a label that is very contentious for good reason. the ways i see ppl describe it are either "its like being a lesbian but you're not actually a lesbian" or they just describe what the definition of lesbian already encompasses (ergo, non-men attracted to non men. the lesbian label never excluded nonbinary ppl in any sort of way) im not comfortable with the label as someone who is in fact a lesbian outside of like, very specific cases. at best its a misused term and at worst it should have been deprecated long ago

[@_connorsseur]

Noted. Thanks for touching on the other side of the issue!

[@_-Lx-_]

The terms are contradictory, It's like saying you're a tall short person, or saying bright darkness. Someone can't really be a lesbian woman attracted to exclusively only women, and bisexually into both guys and gals simultaniously.

[@Orphanmaker666]

EXACTLY!

[@TwilightFlower9]

please. god. please stop fucking policing people's labels. i am begging you. it's not that hard. all you have to do is just not say anything

[@Nurariart]

NOOO Not poor MGE! I just bought a copy of the 2nd encyclopedia because Nurarihyon was in it. It's so hilarious that Japan turned a yokai that is mostly depicted as an old man into a wifu XD Now I even want to get the first book, seeing what it's actually like. I've always had a fascination with books written like real scientific research books for mythical creature like they're real. Like the ology series for example. (Dragonology, vampireology, ex) MGE kinda reminds me of this one book called "The book of the dragon" - Ciruelo - In it, there's a page on how a lot of dragons have a hard to impossible time keeping a relationship with other dragons. Because they end up fighting over their hoards and stuff. Which leads them ending up lonely. And sad. So they have humans keep them company, calling them their "favorites" and spoiling them. And sleeping with them... One thing MGE is missing for me is that I WISH it went into more depth on how these Monster girls live and function in this world! Like with the dragon book I just mentioned! Do they fight each other? Are they antisocial with other species? Or are they sometimes corroborative? Is there a monster girl hierarchy? Which ones are the strongest? How have humans not gone instinct? All the human women keep getting cucked. What about children? Do monsters even have children? Cause the book I've read had never mentioned pregnancy. Can humans even get them prego? If they can have children, what if they have sons? Do monster boys even exist? Would they also need human male essence? Goddammit it, there's more to life than just getting freaky!

[@Scootakip]

This is a fantastic, informative video. I'm never using this awful website again.

[@ghb323]

25:50 Oh, the dreaded "financial censorship" that the EFF gives it a title. The demonetization of youtubers (like people saying common innocent phrases somehow violates the monetization policy, especially if it has false positive errors like the scunthorpe problem, both in a sub-string of text and as a syllable of a word or sentence when spoken audibly if relying on automated systems). Even outside of relying on ad-revenue, payment processors like PayPal also have the prohibition on supporting NSFW content. Anyone, does Paypal also prohibit even mentioning swear words? It's no wonder why web 3.0 and the Decentralized Web is in development. It fixes one of the biggest issues on the internet especially with Big Tech, horrible ToS, how ToS enforced, enshitification (see wikipedia about it, no links because spam/scam filter), and even LEGAL THREATS to useful third-party software; alternative frontends, custom browsers, and browser extensions using their websites they don't like (youtube C&D invidious, facebook against friendly browser) that benefits the user. That last one is what I hate the most. They're essentially using laws to demand how their websites should be experienced by the user, and that any software that makes annoying features of their websites less annoying should be banned. Most of them cite the CFAA (intended to stop hackers accessing PCs) and the more controversial one, DMCA 1201 (also known as "anti-circumvention", a part of copyright law supporting a technological restriction (a.k.a DRM) which that is to prevent piracy). This happened by Admiral and Linkvertise against Adblock plus and Universal bypass. More recently, and also more egregiously, a huge Korean company named Kakao Entertainment bullied Free and Open Source Tachiyomi Manga Reader developer into submission to nuke his entire project, the software is basically the same as the media player Kodi but for manga. Would fandom do this? Well, currently, they aren't going to war against 3rd party tools to defend their anticompetitive practices, but if they get big enough, especially after acquiring other website companies, they may pull such a move.

[@anaangelicaromansilva5825]

23:07 N O T E V E N C L O S E

[@Super_ATI]

What do you mean, Its also youtubes ads

[@ninjacat230]

everybody forgets about wikidot

[@dont-cv7ms]

Tha hell gro-goroth doing in ther'

[@luizzeroxis]

Cool nails.

[@_connorsseur]

Ty haha. I want to update my pfp and such so it's not so orange. I just don't have the color of nail polish I used in the current one which I really liked

[@molar-td4vg]

i havent finished the video yet so you might go into this, but this is genuinely a horrible change, even if the ones affected right now are things like the monster girl wiki. take fear and hunger for example - its a graphic game that shows nudity, sexual content, and gore. the entire funger wiki could be banned on that alone - regardless of the fact that it isn't sexual and is more artistic in nature. the use of "fetishes" is also not great. on the surface, it seems like it only targets explicit sexual content like vore or foot fetishes. but what happens when trans women are flagged because theyre "femboys" or "traps." what happens when queer relationships are flagged for being fetish content? historically the queer community has been seen as sexual deviants, regardless of how clothed we are. thats why conservatives always talk about children - they see us as sexual beings before people.

[@laok]

why dose Vore allways remain

[@JayJay-ki4mi]

With all the madness in the world with cats genders, and as a parent, I support this. But I do not support 1 rule for some, and another rule for others. 50 shades should also be removed.

[@Inferredpolus]

Omg inkipedia

[@MadeOfKndy]

nice video

[@crazychicken2005]

I would like to point out that manually downloading every image from the a wiki that is being closed down would not only take up a lot of time, but also a lot of disk space. I'm a tech hoarder, and I'm going to do my best to show just how much that is right now. Let's assume all the images are high rez images at 300MB each. Let's multiply that by 14,683. The end value is 4,404,900MB. That's about 4404.9GB or 4.4049TB. If I was to combine the total storage density of my entire computer collection (every hard drive, BIOS chip, SSD, and USB drive), it would most likely not be enough. Now, I know there are people with more then 4TB of storage screaming at me right now, but not everyone can afford massive hard drives and SSD's, and wikis are normally maintained by volunteers who may not just have 4TB worth of hard drives sitting around. You might say "well, why don't they just work together and all download the images as a group?". It's because it would be very hard to communicate what image they are on, resulting in duplicates, or maybe just a bunch of wasted work. I also know that this is not the real amount of space those images take up, but it is most likely close to it.

[@confuzedduk1008]

Just remove the word “censorship” from the title

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

: O

[@Barquevious_Jackson]

28:46 - Fear and Hunger is terrible.

[@hitneXXX]

NEEDY STREAMER OVERLOAD MENTION

[@-memoria-2136]

I'm not sure if they still do it post the rebrand to Fandom, but I remember back when it was called Wikia, anonymous users would have their IP address shown for all the world to see. It's amazing how dangerous that actually is yet no one really batted an eye.

[@_connorsseur]

I'm pretty sure that's still the case for anyone who isn't logged in

[@cyberteaaa]

It was the opposite actually, only admins (sysops and bureaucrats) could see IPs on unregistered users aka Anonymous. now that Fandom updated MediaWiki (the software) after ridiculously long time, anon IPs are public, and so they are on Wikipedia and many other wikis.

[@lpfan4491]

Showing IPs is an entirely normal wiki-thing. If you agree with it or not is a diffrent story entirely, but it's true.

[@mcawesome9705]

Hey, I would like to mention that it's technically not _impossible_ for a wiki on fandom to be removed - The Rain World wiki *did* get removed*. However, for that to happen, it ended up requiring Akupara Games (Rain World's publisher) to send a cease-and-desist to fandom. * Only one of many (a few) and only the English version. However, of the two other English wikis that I've managed to find, one shows up a few results down and is vandalized to hell (used to be archived and led to the removed wiki before November 2023), and the other, while way nicer looking, is a lot more difficult to find and is more or less maintained by a tiny group of people. As for the non-English wiki, it seems that people are fine with it given that the official English wiki links to it.

[@_connorsseur]

I'm aware it's *possible*, but VERY few developers are willing to go to such lengths for a community run project they have no involvement with. The edge cases are so few and far between I didn't want to make it seem like a option when realistically, it almost certainly is not. Huge props to the rain world devs for that though, that's awesome

[@scutoid-backrooms]

backrooms wikidot admin, former backrooms fandom admin here. the backrooms fandom was made on wikia when the backrooms were new and the lore was first developing, but the opportunities for page customization with CSS were so limited and the quality control was so bad that it forked to wikidot soon after. but the fandom wiki was left, of course, and its a seperate community now. it was the first of many fractures that damned the backrooms to never reach the heights the scp foundation reached id say, but maybe it will yet. fandom is becoming more and more form fit to encyclopedic wiki content and a dearth of creative wiki projects. a fandom employee once also told me that was the case, but i pointed out to him how in that case shouldn't they allow us to fork fully and delete the fandom one?

[@hex.adecimal]

the wiki for Fallen London, an indie text-based game with a small but dedicated fanbase, moved to an independent site about 3 years ago. however, it only covers the mechanical choices of the game, archiving the text of particular stories. if you want a lore summary, you have to still crawl back to fandom-and it sucks. the tumblr blog of a now-retired dev contains more relevant lore info than that entire site does, and most of the lore archival now comes from individual fans compiling all the text on a particular character or storyline. even the *developers of the game* had to beg people to not use fandom. it sucks that bad. don’t use fandom.

[@timedeathe]

fandom in general is terrible site

[@timedeathe]

15:46 im pretty sure fandom is only saying this so they can squeze the last few dimes before there site has nothing left

[@timedeathe]

23:16 are you using omari ost? im cerous as i recoize that song

[@timedeathe]

31:21 you forgot wiki dot witch is used by backrooms and scp

[@_connorsseur]

Yep! I note songs used in the description

[@kanothejoker9656]

super cool vid! i do some wiki editing myself and fandom is just so frustrating some times (sadly when i brought up the idea of moving, we kinda determined that the team and the thing itself was too small to really be able to do it...). to the point where i made my own website for something just to avoid dealing with how god awful it is to navigate on mobile with regards to censorship, another thing that gets hit is song lyrics. i frequent the vocaloid lyrics wiki for song translations, and ive had several times where the lyrics are either censored to the point that entire lines of the song are just gone, or just completely removed entirely (The Fox's Wedding by Masa Works Design and Specimen Girl by Kiyozumi as some examples). ive ended up putting some of the lyrics on my own site just to have a way to see them easily without seeking out a video. its frustrating when you just want to know what a song is saying to have to deal with deciphering what a censored word or line is

[@tailsrhtatonslice1418]

i also frequent vocaloid lyrics wiki and i often see songs in danger of having their lyrics deleted and i hate it so much

[@tailsrhtatonslice1418]

i know for a fact i know a song with a removed line but i don’t know what it is, it might be spinal fluid explosion girl? edit: i checked and the lyrics seem fine but i did find myself talking about noushou sakuretsu girl’s lyrics being removed

[@kanothejoker9656]

@@tailsrhtatonslice1418 its possible that they were removed for a time but then reinstated maybe? thats my best guess, other than maybe mixing the song up, but that feels unlikely if you found yourself talking about it

[@tailsrhtatonslice1418]

@@kanothejoker9656 yeah i suspect the former it's been 2 weeks but i found out that the lyrics to another reruriri song got removed (seisou sakuretsu boy). how Nice.

[@ArgaJacint]

I'm glad you mentioned how sexist and potentially transphobic censoring "female presenting nipples" only is. To my ears even the term "female presenting" sounds so stupid. It sounds like being wishy-washy with being trans inclusive. I find it very clunky.

[@bradfjord]

Fandom doesnt delete wikis when requested. Fandom deletes wikis because of nipples. I think we just found the breast approach to getting rid of Fandom wikis post-migration.

[@_connorsseur]

That absolutely would not work, Fandom would simply delete the offending images. It'd be pretty obvious it's not really a part of the wiki if they only started appearing after forking too lol.

[@bradfjord]

@@_connorsseur Sisyphus pushes the boulder, I repeatedly add human nipples to every image on the Fandom Mario Wiki. It must be done.

[@DessertMonkey]

36:40 It is possible to submit a closure request for a Fandom wiki and have it approved by staff, but only if your wiki is dormant and isn't being actively edited by users for a period of time. Managed to get a closure request approved for a wiki I managed that was moved to Miraheze, though I had to wait a little bit. Fandom is more biased keeping wikis open if they feel it's still actively read/edited though, so I see only smaller wikis having success with this route when forking.

[@ExtremeWreck]

You can't. FANDOM is greedy.

[@hanthegene]

@@ExtremeWreck you absolutely can, it's just not likely for larger, active wikis. I had a small wiki of about 50 pages and essentially no contributors aside from myself. Asked to close it, citing that I can't continue contributing and the wiki will be dead without me. Got closure approved without a hitch. If your wiki is small, niche, and inactive enough, there's a chance they'll close it.

[@kilianconn5091]

Fandom has the same problem Genius has, instead of any useful information it's just full of someone's inane interpretations being stated as fact. It's like a parody of what a Wiki is supposed to be.

[@SylviaLastname]

incredibly good video! no idea how i ended up here but im certainly glad i did, i had no idea about any of this and its extremely interesting, especially the inconsistencies and the whole female-presenting nipples thing. very interested to see what you cover next

[@TanteiRotana]

This was a very interesting video thank you for posting it :)

[@xuanathan]

Just as an aside for Fextralife, it is only ever advisable when talking about Souls games. I don't know why this is but Souls-like players pretty much exclusively flock to Fextralife, and it just has more stuff on it when it comes to Dark Souls, Elden Ring, Code Vein, etc.

[@_connorsseur]

Oh that's interesting. I assumed there was literally no reason to ever use it. Very weird choice by those communities

[@_-Lx-_]

The Soulslike fandom despises Feztralife too though, They have a boatliad of unreliable infornation that is downright innacurate and unfounded commonly, People are forced to use them for similar reasons as Fandom, They host BS streams constantly playing as Ads to rig their viewercount and search presence. All the owners are abrasive egotists that constantly make everyone angry with the arrogant stuff they say. I remember there the entire community online was dunking on a viewbotted stream where they were insulting Armored Core 6 and talking about how the game looks ugly and is boring and simplistic. There's unfortunately no definitive Souls wiki, Wikidot and such are more trustworthy but still has errors and missing info. Fextralife is just Fandom Jr.

[@xuanathan]

@@_-Lx-_ That's interesting to know, I always heard Ds2 fans say Wikidot was better, but they always speak of it like it's in the past, and it *was* better, and I only hear ds2 fans speak of it so I just assumed souls fans went to Fextralife for some reason, I could never tell you why

[@PhantomDogman]

From all this time using internet only now I stumbled on to someone who were writing articles on some kinda wiki like website?

[@actualleviathan]

thank you for making this! also thank you for the work you've done in working on the wikis to begin with, accessible information is always a blessing. super glad you mentioned the LGBTQIA+ wiki fiasco. a lot of us still feel bitterness about them deciding to make a stance on what labels they considered common or notable enough to earn a place on their official wiki. to this day, there's still untold numbers of broken images on the migrated and remade wikis, some of which were the only surviving copies of certain flags. when miraheze had that big issue where they had to restore some of their databases, those wikis were offline for over a month. as for the censorship, i noticed it on a lyrics wiki first, where they'll refuse to host the lyrics to a song if they're deemed a little too explicit (though, ironically, you can still view the lyrics through the page's history). it's fascinating to see how arbitrary the line really is

[@_connorsseur]

Not even song lyrics are immune? Geez that's wild lol. Sorry you all had to deal with that though! Hope this gets more people to recognize what took place on the LGBTQIA+ wiki.

[@cyberteaaa]

the Lyrics Wiki (it was very big) fiasco was about copyrights though

[@helio3928]

to be honest though, fuck the lgbtqia+ wiki, but for the opposite reason you mentioned (i don't think they do it hard enough)

[@IgirlbossedTooCloseToTheSun]

Yeah the lyric censorship is super common on the vocaloid wiki // vocaloid lyrics wiki Luckily they'll usually link the vocaDB page with uncensored lyrics but some songs just have no lyrics posted whatsoever and it can be,,,,,, annoying :I

[@Clown_the_Clown]

Marina is an otokonoko, not a toid, but fandom will never accept that heh.

[@jimsmarma2890]

Pizza Tower wiki: The Noise on Miraheze: I'm going to kill you! The Noise on Fandom: I'm going to ____ you!

[@99999bomb]

21:45 imagine the outrage if Wikipedia decided to nuke niche pages that rarely get visited because "you cant read it all"

[@Markm8]

Wikis should be as clear and clinical as possible and should not be edited if there correct, when is it going to get to the point were a hitter esc enemy in a game gets censored for being a racist when the point is that he is a bad dude?

[@theredeyther7502]

I hate fandom as much as the next guy due to their insane number of ads, their forking policy and their refusal to delete wikis that have forked but I don’t see a problem with fandom censoring sexually explicit material. It is within Fandoms right to remove sexual explicit material from their site if they wish. Their removal of the monster girls wiki in my eyes should not be controversial given the fact that large portions of the content is dedicated to sexual content (some of which is non consensual). When it comes to the censoring of female nipples, what is the problem with doing that? It’s not sexist it is a common practice in every single media medium to censor female nipples while leaving the male ones uncensored. You also have to remember that Fandom is accessible to a lot of children and while it is not their main audience, a large portion of their community are children and they should not have the ability to access sexually explicit material on a site relatively easily. At the very least for these wikis you should be required to have an account that claims to be 18. While yes it is scummy that they refuse to assist with the fork, that they only give wikis a few week notice before termination, and that they are doing this to appear more advertiser friendly they are still within the right to due this and it does not amount of censorship.

[@_connorsseur]

@@theredeyther7502 the thing with the monster girl wikis is the fact they existed on the platform for many years prior without issue. The rules retroactively changed to disallow them, and in a way that was *exceptionally* poorly communicated while providing no assistance to the forking wikis as an extra insult to injury. There was also never attempt on fandom's part to find a middle ground where the wiki was age restricted or anything, they instead chose to endanger thousands of hours of editor work (if miraheze couldn't take them they may have been lost). Of course, that's within Fandom's rights, I never claim it's not-- it's just a matter of them going about it in a very disrespectful manner to the editors who make their platform successful. The female nipples thing is sexist and transphobic in that you are treating people differently because of their gender identities. When you have to start defining what is male and female, you're walking a very slippery slope, and that's what this policy does. I particularly find it offensive for the transphobic element. If a transmasc individual chooses not to, or has yet to undergo top surgery, then fandom would insist on censoring his nipples. Or if a transfem individual hasn't undergone HRT for long or at all, then what's the threshold for censoring their nipples? Right now fandom probably wouldn't care, even though they *are* female nipples (even according to fandom's alleged pro LGBT stance). There's also something to be said about classical art inexplicably receiving a pass for nudity, it's yet another arbitrary distinction that would be much easier and fairer if the rule was thrown out entirely instead of carving dozens of exceptions. And if you want to disagree with all that, fair enough, but the LGBTQIA+ wiki should be a pretty clear cut example. Fandom outright claimed ownership of a community wiki, removing all prior administration, deleted over 90% of the work on the wiki, and never even consulted the editors and readers of it ahead of time. They just announced fandom was irreversibly claiming and changing this wiki centered around minorities and the community had no say in the matter. To make matters worse, Fandom now smothers the fork of that wiki with its higher SEO, harming it even more. Yes, the old LGBTQIA+ wiki did have controversies surrounding it, but fandom never said that's why they took over the wiki. Even if it was, there's better ways to handle that (banning problematic editors). I can't see a way to justify that situation no matter how I look at it.

[@theredeyther7502]

@@_connorsseur yes while their refusal to clarify their TOS and general rules regarding wiki content and their refusal to help with the transfer is a horrible change in their part that’s the only bit that should be controversial. The removal of the wiki itself should not be controversial given almost the entire wiki is centered around sexual content. The removal of the wiki itself does not amount to censorship given its within their legal right to remove it, if they feel it does not fit with their platform anymore. In regards to male and female nipple censorship, there is a medical and biological difference between male a female breast, in that male nipples are a vestigial organ in that they serve no purpose to men, with men (outside of very unique circumstances) do not have the capacity to lactate. Women on the other hand do have that capacity with female breast and nipples serving a actual medical purpose and are considered a accessory to the female reproductive system which is one of the main reasons that every single content ratings system, weather it be the TV, film, video game ratings systems and boards have a distinction between male and female nipples. If a trans female nipples were not censored or a trans males nipples were censored then yes that is transphobia and sexism, but if it was required that trans women’s nipples are to be censored and trans men’s nipples do not have to be censored then that can be considered transphobic or sexist, given that they agree with the fact that you can change your gender and agree with the fact that trans men are men and that trans women are women.

[@theredeyther7502]

@@_connorsseur when it comes to removing wikis, yes it’s a horrible thing for Fandom to not give any warning about the TOS changes and their refusal to help with the migration. The removal of the wiki itself should not be controversial, the way they went about it should be. When it comes to the censoring of female nipples, in every single media ratings system female nipples and breast are required to be censored or they will have the age rating increased. This is due to biological and medical reasons. Males can not lactate (with extremely rare exceptions) male nipples are a vestigial organ and have no purpose to us. Female breast and nipples are the other hand are an accessory to the female reproductive system and are considered a reproductive organ by the medical and scientific community. The censoring of female nipples does not take away from the article or the wiki at all and is not sexist in any way. If though a trans women’s nipples were not censored and a trans man’s nipples were then that would equate to transphobia and sexism. When it comes the lack of censoring classical art, the situation is slightly different in that the way are historical works that are core parts of human heritage. There probably should be an age restriction but just a less restrictive one.

[@theredeyther7502]

@@_connorsseur when it comes to removing wikis, yes it’s a horrible thing and very scummy for Fandom to not give any warning about the TOS changes and their refusal to help with the migration. The removal of the wiki itself should not be controversial, the way they went about it should be. When it comes to the censoring of female nipples, in every single media ratings system female nipples and breast are required to be censored or they will have the age rating increased. This is due to biological and medical reasons. Males can not lactate (with extremely rare exceptions). male nipples are a vestigial organ and have no purpose to us as a result should not be censored. Female breast and nipples are on the other hand are an accessory to the female reproductive system and are considered a reproductive organ by the medical and scientific community. The censoring of female nipples does not take away from the article or the wiki at all and is not sexist in any way. If though a trans women’s nipples were not censored and a trans man’s nipples were then that would equate to transphobia and sexism. There should be be more clarification as to when nipples should be censored, in my eyes nipples should or should not be censored if the individual is identifying with their gender identity. When it comes to the LGBTQ+ wiki controversy yes that cane be considered censorship and is very out of touch, and homophobic and transphobic of them since they purged 99% of the content. When it comes to classical works showing nudity, that should be reviewed from a different lens given the circumstances surrounding works like the Statue of David and Venus. Nudity in historical works should be treated differently given how they are directly related to human history and are core parts of human heritage. As a result there should be a minor age restriction for those works that is less strict than another forms of age restriction.

[@theredeyther7502]

@@_connorsseur​​⁠ when it comes to removing wikis, yes it’s a horrible thing and very scummy for Fandom to not give any warning about the TOS changes and their refusal to help with the migration. The removal of the wiki itself should not be controversial, the way they went about it should be. When it comes to the censoring of female nipples, in every single media ratings system female nipples and breast are required to be censored or they will have the age rating increased. This is due to biological and medical reasons. Males can not lactate (with extremely rare exceptions). male nipples are a vestigial organ and have no purpose to us as a result should not be censored. Female breast and nipples are on the other hand are an accessory to the female reproductive system and are considered a reproductive organ by the medical and scientific community. The censoring of female nipples does not take away from the article or the wiki at all and is not sexist in any way. If though a trans women’s nipples were not censored and a trans man’s nipples were then that would equate to transphobia and sexism. There should be be more clarification as to when nipples should be censored, in my eyes nipples should or should not be censored if the individual is identifying with their gender identity. When it comes to the LGBTQ+ wiki controversy yes that cane be considered censorship and is very out of touch, and homophobic and transphobic of them since they purged 99% of the content. When it comes to classical works showing nudity, that should be reviewed from a different lens given the circumstances surrounding works like the Statue of David and Venus. Nudity in historical works should be treated differently given how they are directly related to human history and are core parts of human heritage. As a result there should be a minor age restriction for those works that is less strict than another forms of age restriction.