The Second Red Wedding | Winds of Winter Animated

[@fantasyhaven1]

Will the Second Red Wedding take place in The Winds of Winter? Patreon: www.patreon.com/c/FantasyHaven Merch: fantasyhavenmerch.com/en-gbp/

[@masterplokoon8803]

@@fantasyhaven1 maybe but I don't believe it would be as you say. I can't see Jaime being cowed into assisting Lady Stoneheart killing his family as much as he cares for Brienne he would not kill his aunt Genna and cousin Daven for her. He is a lion and would resist like one.

[@radumoldovan3298]

@fatasyhaven1 will you make ck3 agot gameplay?

[@alimusliev187]

Hello i got a theory about Arthur Dayne he is alive at the seat of the Reeds couse Halen Reed worged into him and Bran Stark will take his body to become a Knight ( couse he said ones there is no magic and kriples do not become knights)

[@QuinnTheGM]

Second Red Wedding? Never heard of it (great to see it animated)

[@GhostyGhost7007]

Great guy never meddem

[@nickthegreat9434]

Quinn! Hello! You and haven and gotta watch harrenhal when it releases next year

[@tyronnemoosa4741]

Miss you twos HoTD live streams

[@Plummfyre]

"The Freys slashed her throat from ear to ear. When we found her by the river she was three days dead. Harwin begged me to give her the kiss of life, but it had been too long. I would not do it, so Lord Beric put his lips to hers instead, and the flame of life passed from him to her. And... she rose. May the Lord of Light protect us. She rose." -Thoros of Myr to Brienne of Tarth

[@Southern_Crusader]

Three constants in life: Death Taxes Fantasy Haven obsessing over House Frey

[@davi0121]

There Haven's House Connington.

[@rc59191]

They do have one of the coolest castles and sigils. I play as them often in Westeros Total War and working on a plan to take their castle in Mount and Blade.

[@barbedbeggar5520]

*messaging my imaginary wife to tell her Fantasy Haven dropped the Red Wedding 2.0 video*

[@jf_kein_k8590]

Obviously the Lannisters turned into lions and the Freys into towers and started attacking the smallfolk and therefore had to be brought down.

[@Mrkabrat]

I see what you did there. Wyman would be proud

[@callumdwyer7882]

Haven and Quinn are living in the walls of the Red Keep, plotting the downfall of the noble and kind dynasties of the Lannisters and the Freys.

[@biraptor6205]

"What about the red wedding?" "You already had it" '"We had one, yes, what about a second red wedding"

[@justdirt]

Recently finished my reread of Feast and the Brotherhood under Stoneheart is prolithic holy shit. At multiple points, characters remark on just how many people are being hanged. There are so many corpses that entire trees are filled with them. But they never do run out of trees. But it's hard to care about their brutality until it gets to Pod and Brienne. Even then, the Brotherhood is still protecting many of the smallfolk so it's hard to root against them.

[@thepunisher6674]

I really really hope daven and genna don’t die I want to see so much more of them

[@Rougarou99]

A second Red Wedding has hit the Riverlands…

[@bigalmou2261]

... and the seat of the Freys is... *the Twins.* You bon of a sitch, I'm in.

[@samuelschonenberger]

Knowing GRRMs writing I doubt that it will be all that cathartic like some of us fans may want

[@silentnight6810]

The problem with that line of thinking is that his writing so far has been the beginning and middle of the plotlines. He needs to actually stick the landing, subverting for the sake of subverting will just lead to GOT Season 8 2.0 for the books. He's laid the crumbs for a resolution, it'd be dumb to suddenly veer Into something else just to surprise the reader.

[@silentecho92able]

@@silentnight6810 Especially, after how the TV series went. If he plans to kill off the Night King using Arya despite the fact, her a character not having any involvement in that plotline and highjacked Jon's story.

[@justacrittic1578]

Perhaps it'll be a half victory, with many slain on both sides, most notably Lady Stoneheart herself. It'll be a senseless bloodbath were the cost of revenge is the death of most of the brotherhood, and the people they wanted to save stranded. Only by ending Lady Stoneheart would Brienne be able to save herself and Jaime.

[@silentecho92able]

@@justacrittic1578 Thats a possibility, another is seen's the Frey family has internal dispute on the fact on who will succeed Walder Frey. An considering Walder has many children some of them ambitious. They might start killing each other over the scraps on who will succeed Walder, plunging the Freys and the Riverland into anarchy and civil war. Probably, during this whole chaos Jaime and Brienna might escape in the confusion.

[@justacrittic1578]

@@silentecho92able Aah, have you been watching Quinn The GM, haven't you? I really like that scenario, it's poetic, showing how breaking guest right creates mistrust, and opens for such acts of depravity to be used more, between the Freys. My biggest concern with it is what it'd mean for Lady Stoneheart, as funny as it'd be, it would have her goal resolve itself in a way. Of course there are ways around it, and I think the best way might be something in between the two.

[@whitewolfofthewhills]

My theory is that Edmure's transfer to Casterly Rock will be ambushed (a common theory), but that the ambush will fail. This will force them to turn back to Riverrun. Why does this matter? Because Jaime. This could then be used by the Brotherhood as an excuse. "Let us smuggle people into Riverrun so we can rescue Edmure or Brienne dies." Only to then enact the massacre despite the deception of it just being a rescue. Gives a more believable reason why Jaime would put his family at risk.

[@Imjustasimpleman5310]

Thats a very clever theory!

[@jacksonpierce7598]

The aftermath section was a great example of how George thinks about violence. Good video!

[@grantnewton4230]

2:30 ok now you’re just showing off your Frey knowledge 😂

[@CraigPaget-u5f]

the Dothraki quota lol a dull afar indeed

[@leomesser415]

The accuracy of the characters to book description is so good

[@SirLofHearthaven]

I hope that Daven either survives or goes out like a hero, maybe defending Jaime or Genna. Emmon's 100% gonna die tho sadly.

[@waltuh6194]

I just hope Genna’s grandchildren will survive, it would be a shame if her direct line ended

[@masterplokoon8803]

Not sure Jaime would get his aunt killed to save Brienne, he cares for Brienne but I can't imagine him signing his aunt Genna's and cousin Daven's death warrants for Brienne. I think Brienne and Jaime will finally put an end to Lady Stoneheart's reign of terror and grant her finally peace.

[@08andylee]

Lady Stoneheart won't get peace until she gets her revenge!

[@waltuh6194]

I could see them ending Stoneheart’s arc now that you mention it

[@waltuh6194]

@@08andyleeEvery time a character is driven by revenge they usually don’t get it or end up being punished for it in this franchise

[@Brandonhayhew]

@@waltuh6194This franchise is stupid. lannister or targaryen get revenge not the rests. martin is a moron

[@TanelisTH]

​@@waltuh6194 I doubt we can call Lady Stoneheart a character at this point. And I doubt she can really be punished. She's more like the personification of the sins of Jaime, the Boltons, and the Freys. A winter or stranger itself who came for Freys. Basically moving plot point. So I think there is no problem if LS will achieve revenge. Tho I'm sure it will not solve problems, only increase them.

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Wooooo more Frey stuff!!!!

[@RmsOceanic]

I think a part of all of us would love Dunk's desire to be manifested, and there would be some sweetness if it's Brienne who does it. The logistics of getting her and/or Jaime to actively participate will be challenging however. Brienne just about agreed to lure Jaime away while the Brotherhood had hostages, could they compel her to slay? Honestly the more I think of it the interplay between Singleminded Stoneheart, Honourable Brienne and At-A-Crossroads Jaime might be one of the most compelling interactions in Winds. And I think you're right that we may get some catharsis from the wedding, but it will be hard to feel good about it, there will inevitably be collateral damage. And if say the Freys descend into Civil War but Edmure is still captive, there's no natural authority to calm the Riverlands down. The feast may grow.

[@laurashortill8623]

Small folk sharpening pitchforks… so you’re saying…. The next United Healthcare CEO may be at Riverrun?

[@cr4bf33der]

I sense another wedding and wife for Lord Walder's hundredth name day.

[@jamiebaker8017]

Well this is the closest we’ll ever get to seeing what happens in winds the way grrm is going..

[@LusiaEyre]

Wouldn't it be a twist if the 2nd Red Wedding failed? The pursuit of vengeance brings the end to Lady Stoneheart... or (although I am not sure how this would work timeline-wise) Arya is there to witness what vengeance made of her mother and brings mercy to her tormented being.

[@X525Crossfire]

Part of me hopes this would be an opportunity to finally see Daven's sisters since they seem underutilized in the narrative, but at the same time, I don't want them caught in the middle once shit starts to go down...

[@Amantducafe]

I like your comment, it is a testament to George's writing. These are tertiary character yet you mention them and i remembered.

[@GuyGuyingstin]

Frey MF’s punching air after this.

[@ayoubzanzan3854]

another nice video! maybe it would also be nice to do a history of House Lannister animation from the first Lannister to the present

[@grubymichael1373]

honey! wake up! new video just dropped

[@JooDawg]

You’ve written more of TWOW than George has, congratulations!

[@daverage4729]

"Ignore the show...." Sound advice ;)

[@lexilannister]

i love this theory so much

[@The_Malcontented]

@0:15 (Sullied it even more, that is)

[@JMTgpro]

My theory of the Fall of House of Frey is that will come, mostly on Winds of Winter. The Frey civil war in my opinion is the most feasible theory. There are many factions, many prides and little unity in that family. I do believe there is a curse. But I think that Walder Frey will die watching his family, in positions of power, begin to devour each other, while he will not be able to do anything. About events... I think it's all true. The Freys will enter a civil war. The factions of Frey/Darry, Frey/Lannister... Frey/Black Walder and Frey/Edwyn will enter into armed conflict as soon as Walder Frey dies. The man will not even be buried, his body abandoned in his room while everyone plays war. Not only will they be fighting for The Twins... The current Lord Paramount is a lowborn who rose too quickly. Everything they are accused, reproached and hated for doing... for 400 years. The Frey civil war will be a war for control of the Riverlands. And when I say that everything will be true. I mean that, in this civil war, all the elements already positioned in story will take effect to bring House Frey to extinction. - The Second Red Wedding: One of the great blows to the dynasty, I see it occurring in the middle of Winds. When possibly the civil war is ongoing. For them, the wedding with Daven Lannister can be seen as a breeze of calm for the Frey/Lannister faction of Riverrun and any other Frey faction allied to them (I suppose the faction with which Devan is going to marry). Only for Stoneheart's biggest coup. What started as a wedding, ended with all Lannister and Frey present hanging on the walls of Riverrrun. entire factions of the family, finished. - Arya Revenge: Unlike many, I don't think Arya will personally fight the Frey, but in her dreams... If anyone gained power with the War of the Five Kings, apart from Petyr, it is Nymeria. And it is Nymeria who, with her "army" is in a position of hunger (As said in FoC), a new war will make her more daring, feeding on the Frey fallen in the civil war. Another detail that is revealed to us is that, like Arya, Nymeria is full of a desire for revenge, for the death of her brother... During the wolf's dreams, we are made to understand that it is a Arya referencing Robb, but I think it is also a referencing to Grey Wind. I believe... That The Road, Darry... after battles will be inundated with wolves. Putting an end to the factions of Frey/Darry that reside there. - Sansa Claim: Another tipping point towards extinction... It is the arrival of Sansa, possibly driven by the Lords of the Vale and Petyr (In the process of crowning her), I believe her destiny is to take Harrenhall. Ending the civil war, possibly returning Edmure to the head of Riverrun. As I mentioned, this event is the last one. Possibly at the beginning of Spring or the end of Winds... It will be what brings the civil war to an end. And House Frey will only be left with a handful of members on The Twins. - The winter of House Frey: If I go into detail, I belive o theorize the last nail in the coffin will be in winter. When the north falls, which I believe it will. The lasts Freys will deny passage to northerners fleeing to the south. That's where I think it will happen... The end. By this time, Daenerys will already be in Westeros (Jon possibly already in control of his dragon, as I believe it will happen), the new Harrenhall will occur. House Frey will fall and in its ashes, a bridge of melted stone, of free passage will rise.

[@Svensk7119]

I want Tom O' Seven Streams to be the legendary, surviving Reyne.

[@arkiv7851]

Jaime will rescue Genna and will probably try to save Daven but fail.

[@waltuh6194]

I can’t see him really agreeing to it either way

[@johnevans5706]

If it is held at river run then theres no way the late lord Frey would miss lording it over the tullys by attending.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Sedona, drop everything. Haven made a video again.

[@staytuned2L337]

Hell yeah. Can enjoy this on my break

[@AlbertKelway]

Bro that last line is fire

[@NoCryinRyan]

Robb and the Northmen were cut and shot at at the Red Wedding. Joffrey was poisoned at the Purple Wedding. May-haps we’ll see a Blue Wedding, a massive drowning at Riverrun.

[@AegonTargaryenthesecond3096]

Fantasy haven and crusader Chris on the same day is it Christmas already

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Good to see you again your grace. Hope you are doing great.

[@AegonTargaryenthesecond3096]

@ thank you Bittersteel I’m doing great I hope you’re doing great as well

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@@AegonTargaryenthesecond3096 I am thank you

[@AegonTargaryenthesecond3096]

@ that’s great to hear

[@BlackwoodSupremacy]

One thing is for certain. It will not be considered a full affair. Side note: the moment the Greatjon is free and becomes the living embodiment of his sigil will be ridiculously satisfying

[@seliamila1005]

Either way Littlefinger can turn this into a win for himself with him installing A frey branch from the Vale as ruler of riverrun that would be grateful and tied to him or he just installing robin after SH killed any relevant frey (plus frey themselves destroying each other)

[@mihrimahsultana1263]

Great video I honestly feel like the red wedding 2.0 will happen otherwise people will be disppointed

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

Yessss stabby sound effects!!!

[@natheriver8910]

Very fascinant

[@Pentagathusosaurus]

We've had one Red Wedding yes, but what about second Red Wedding?

[@natheriver8910]

The north remembers 🐺🐺🐺🤍🤍🤍

[@hansnotgruber3326]

4:15 Roose Bolton was never one of the fake prisoners. He arrived after Harrenhald was secured

[@bugattibeiber6382]

errghm, what the haven?

[@lukebarroso449]

I really like House Frey. It'd be a shame for them to die out

[@waltuh6194]

I doubt they’ll all die out, but I hope the Lannister-Frey branch doesn’t since it seems like an interesting one

[@silentecho92able]

@@waltuh6194 Chances are what i see with the Frey's at least those that survived. After the Tully's restored to power and them getting crippled post wedding. Chances are do to the family reputation being tainted, either they will be stripped of there family's land and titles, losing there Nobility status making them a free for all for people wanting revenge. Or maybe, they will be downgraded and loss the Twins. An be given a much smaller castle and be a much smaller less influential house and the survivors live there lives in complete disgrace.

[@mikelcatalan4421]

As a kind of troll move, part of me kind of wants the second red wedding to happen and fail. Could you imagine if the Freys pull a house Peake and somehow survive despite the bullshit they pulled?

[@DerekGutierrezbarba]

I hope this comes to reality it must come

[@colt6515]

all freys and frey lovers the north remembers

[@Siltarius]

I think the crows would be happy, more food for winter.

[@jacedayne1535]

Looking at the possible brides I bet my money on Alyx, sadly she’ll have to be accompanied down the ally by a pie.

[@alexsam6292]

I have never been this early

[@Niles-Nemo]

Freymania continues 🥳🥳

[@DildoDaggins69]

6:02 Uh-ther-rides

[@rinkhoek3130]

How do you know what the correct interpretation is?

[@DildoDaggins69]

@@rinkhoek3130 I checked with my old mate Roy Dotrice, and he never, never, _never_ gets the names wrong.

[@Mephisto707]

Finally a reasonable explanation for Lady Stoneheart’s existence! Bravo sir.

[@TheDeadlyKnight]

I don’t think there’s going to be a revenge Red Wedding. Martin doesn’t seem the type to regurgitate major “historical” occurrences in his legendarium. There won’t be a second Dance of the Dragons, or Red Wedding, or Long Night, etc.

[@YaraDara634]

Just in time for lunch

[@Brandonhayhew]

George Martin abandoned the books the wind of winter he confirmed he cannot finish it

[@adambarleyii3357]

lets go

[@vanikestewart8578]

I mean if Walder gets the Duncan Death than it should be Brianne who does it.

[@frefai]

With the recent comment from GRRM, I'm less inclined to watch these videos as we'll likely never even get to read winds of winter. It's fun speculating and theorizing, but when the author himself has lost interest, it's hard to keep excited.

[@vandalman8]

Based and frey-pilled

[@Dangerman-zg3ui]

I bet Nymeriia and her wolf pack will be involved, I can see the Red Wedding 2.0 being from the POV of Ayra warging into Nymeria leading a XBOX HUEG Wolf Pack. And then in the morning of the massacre we see a smiling Lady Stoneheart to Daven Lannister and his newly wedded Frey wife who slowly leave, seeing scences like a hungry Great jon Umber growling at wolves over last night's meat

[@petertom92]

Show version is fine, but it should fit into the books.

[@WheresPoochie]

I feel that the general predictions for the Red Wedding 2.0 are way too linear. Considering that the North are busy with the Baratheon/Bolton conflict and that the BWB are waaaayyyy outnumbered by the Lannisters and Freys, it’s much more plausible that the Frey Civil War will begin at Daven’s wedding, sparked by Crakehall- and Walton-aligned Freys and targeting Lannister-Freys. It would be both unexpected as well as wholly logical.

[@DiversDesign]

The fall of Freys and fall of the Riverrun would obviously need to bring in the Lord Paramount to establish order and bring Kings justice to the Riverlands which are under his command. Great opportunity to also use that fresh new army from the Vale and see how he can control them more. While of course, if a Littlefinger could come to rule the Riverlands themselves... and even become Lord of the Riverrun no less... With young beautiful Stark for himself. With quite a dowry in the future once things resolve in the North. (they obviously cannot go North now or achieve anything there due to the situation as it is and that was a tv show nonsense addition anyway). Would Littlefinger refuse that? It is even his duty by his title to intervene, against presumably only some bandits with no real strength or numbers and it is very nice if the Freys get conveniently removed so he can take over once those silly bandits are taken care off. Easy job for the fresh Vale army, good way to bloody them a little eh? Its all plus, plus, plus for him. Triple double. Except that it will be Brynden Fish who takes the Riverrun. I mean really people, he is not running around the forest somewhere, he is a Fish.... for Fish sake... Where else is he going to be but in Riverrun. If a Fish can swim out, he can also swim in? Who better? Tsk... It is past due to see Brynden actually do something worthy of all the hype he got so far while being in the background., so if anyone takes Riverrun from the Freys its going to be him. Im not really sure Stoneheart needs a wedding to have her vengeance, seems a bit on the nose too to have a second red wedding. Feels cheap to just have a duplicate happen again.

[@mattavery7581]

I really hope there isn't a second Red Wedding because it would kind of underplay the first one.

[@waltuh6194]

I also feel like it would be taken the wrong way and the fan base would start making badass revenge edits

[@18pablo88]

Hello there

[@rylanstudios1]

Add the visseris video to the playlist Ik I didn’t spell the name right

[@DiversDesign]

Everyone assumes Lady Stoneheart is this monster and spirit of vengeance, but it is all based on unreliable witnesses descriptions. Second, third person comments. I wouldn't be surprised she is more Catelyn than many think. It is nice to see a video about one of the expected comeuppance resolutions of the story, because most fandom only assumes various kinds of further demises and negative twists of most of "good characters" in the story. Due to how it all went down, these days most people think the story is about characters like Littlefinger winning.

[@michelbick1710]

Is Thoros not with Lady Stoneheart in the books?

[@bobthepig_]

👍

[@f_gun204]

Brittany Spuckler Caitlin Spuckler Cassidy Spuckler Chloe Spuckler Cody Spuckler Dermott Spuckler Dylan Spuckler Heather Spuckler Hunter Spuckler Ian Spuckler Jordan Spuckler Kendall Spuckler Kyra Spuckler Lauren Spuckler Max Spuckler Morgan Spuckler Noah Spuckler Phil Spuckler Q-Bert Spuckler Rumer Spuckler Sascha Spuckler Scout Spuckler Taylor/Addem-up Spuckler Tiffany Spuckler Wesley Spuckler Zoe Spuckler

[@DerekGutierrezbarba]

Can you do a video te he birth conspiracy theory

[@s.k4426]

What is background music called?

[@AgentSqueaky]

Wrong Lord Walder will ascend to Godhood and the Freys will become the living embodiment of The Seven

[@Munax.]

There won't be any fate of Freys in The Winds of Winder since I certain at this point that book will never be released. 0:02

[@Munax.]

My frustration to GRRM aside, this was a good video and I agree with you young one.

[@gravel2474]

I used to love these videos and theories but they are pointless now. George stated that he is probably never going to finish WOW, it's just depressing at this point

[@WheresPoochie]

We’re writing our own TWOW in our minds. That way, we won’t be disappointed.

[@DiversDesign]

Jaime has other things to do rather than keep returning to Riverrun. That would be really lousy writing.

[@AndrewWies-r2u]

Second

[@alexsam6292]

First

[@chaos_knight_xy]

What is the logic that Walder Frey would be loyal to the Stark Cause, after Robb Stark betrayed him? They already established him as untrustworthy and opportunistic, yet they magically forget this by Storm of Swords. Robb Stark has some insane nerve to not only break his oath, but then proceeds to be like " We must win back the Freys. With them, we still have some chance of success, however small. Without them, I see no hope. I am willing to give Lord Walder whatever he requires ... apologies, honors, lands, gold ... there must be something that would soothe his pride ... Catelyn: Not something. Someone." Storm of Swords, ch.14" They forreal think they can win Walder's loyalty with such a one sided deal, Edmure ain't going to be lord paramount of the Trident or Riverun for long, when the Tyrells and Lannisters march. Robb Stark can't protect the Riverlands, and he can't protect the Twin's either. The Riverlands got clapped by Lannister's alone, and needed Robb Stark to bail them out, Tyrells will just be over kill. What is the logic, that Walder Frey will join the losing cause all for this!? They for real thought Walder Frey would eat Robb's crap and not do anything about it. 💀💀 I guess Stark and Tullies have a short memory. Got: Don't trust Lord Walder Frey, Robb, he will hand you over to the Lannisters. Clash of Kings: keep those troops there ,Edmure, we need to make sure Walder Frey keeps faith and stays loyal. Storm of Sword: Oh, we gave Walder Frey the worst slight he has ever suffered, but lets try winning him back by offering Edmure, even though Edmure's hand was refused to him before, surely he won't take this as a bigger insult. Surely Walder Frey will be loyal to our losing cause and not betray us. WHHAAAAAAT!!!!!?

[@justdirt]

You have to remember that they didn't trust Walder at all and that they rushed past all the flowery parts and went right into the wedding. Catelyn even makes sure Rob eats. By that point, the wall could've come down before someone would break Guest Rights. It's that sacred and old. It was literally unthinkable Walder would do something like this after they had began eating. Robb wasn't going back to Walder for troops, it was to get across and go take back the North.

[@chaos_knight_xy]

​@@justdirt No dude, reread my comment, you ignored key details. What will stop Walder Frey from betraying them after the wedding????? HMMM? They for real thought Walder Frey would just eat Robb's crap and not do anything about it☠☠ Ok, you haven't been paying attention to the books, Robb needs Walder Frey's troops for the siege of Moat Cailin. Reread my quote, Robb is not sorry that he dishonored Frey, he is only sorry he lost their manpower and wealth. There is NOTHING Walder can gain from allying with Robb again, except allow for more of his kin to die and allow more people to crap on his house. At least with Red Wedding, yes he is hated, but at least he is more powerful than ever and didn't have to risk the death of his kin for the Young Wolf's lost cause. As for guest right. according to Justice and Injustice in the North: Judgments of Three Stark Lords, guest right was broken before, so if examples of it happened before, what is stopping House Frey. I call this bad writing on G.R.R Martin's part, because they act like Frey is the only House to break guest rite in the main books, while in a World of Ice and Fire that is clearly not the case. And where was guest right broken before Frey, you guessed it, IN THE NORTH!!!! So the Northmen are even more hypocritical. Ask yourself this, will King Joffrey care about the breaking of Guest Right, lets see, NOPE! The sacredness of Guest right only depends on who is King at the end of the day.

[@chaos_knight_xy]

@@justdirt Reread my comment, you ignored key details. What will stop Walder Frey from betraying them after the wedding? They for real thought Walder Frey would just eat Robb's crap and not do anything about it☠☠ Ok, you haven't been paying attention to the books, Robb needs Walder Frey's troops for the siege of Moat Cailin. Reread my comment, Robb is not sorry that he dishonored Frey, he is only sorry he lost their manpower and wealth. There is NOTHING Walder can gain from allying with Robb again, except allow for more of his kin to die and allow more people to disrespect his house. At least with Red Wedding, yes he is hated, but at least he is more powerful than ever and didn't have to risk the death of his kin for the Young Wolf's lost cause. As for guest right. according to Justice and Injustice in the North: Judgments of Three Stark Lords, guest right was broken before, so if examples of it happened before, what is stopping House Frey. I call this bad writing on G.R.R Martin's part, because they act like Frey is the only House to break guest rite in the main books, while in a World of Ice and Fire that is clearly not the case. And where was guest right broken before Frey, you guessed it, IN THE NORTH!!!!

[@chaos_knight_xy]

@@justdirt What will stop Walder Frey from betraying them after the wedding? They for real thought Walder Frey would just eat Robb's cr*p and not do anything about it💀💀 Ok, you haven't been paying attention to the books, Robb needs Walder Frey's troops for the siege of Moat Cailin. Robb is not sorry that he dishonored Frey, he is only sorry he lost their manpower and wealth. There is NOTHING Walder can gain from allying with Robb again, except allow for more of his kindred to die and allow more people to disrespect his house. At least with Red Wedding, yes he is hated, but at least he is more powerful than ever and didn't have to risk the death of his kin for the Young Wolf's lost cause. As for guest right. according to Justice and Injustice in the North: Judgments of Three Stark Lords, guest right was broken before, so if examples of it happened before, what is stopping House Frey. I call this bad writing on G.R.R Martin's part, because they act like Frey is the only House to break guest rite in the main books, while in a World of Ice and Fire that is clearly not the case. And where was guest right broken before Frey, you guessed it, IN THE NORTH!!!!

[@chaos_knight_xy]

​@@justdirt No, dude reread my comment. Robb is not sorry he dishonored House Frey, he is only sorry he lost their manpower. Robb needs Frey support for his planned siege of Moat Cailin. Read the DANG quote, I posted he says just that! The North is losing and they expect Walder Frey to bail them out, even after Robb Stark betrayed him? WHAT? Red Wedding or not, Walder Frey is going to betray Robb one way or another. So for the North to not trust him, yet expect him to be loyal and continue to send his people to die for a King who dishonored him is honestly smooth brained. As for guest right. according to Justice and Injustice in the North: Judgments of Three Stark Lords, guest right was broken before, so if examples of it happened before, what is stopping House Frey. I call this bad writing on G.R.R Martin's part, because they act like Frey is the only House to break guest right in the main books, while in a World of Ice and Fire that is clearly not the case. And where was guest right broken before Frey, you guessed it, IN THE NORTH!!!!

[@Kermitenjoyer]

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