Faster Bows Explained (The BIG 3)

[@LukeMcMullin]

Thank you for this video. I learned a great deal and now I understand why my Black Hunter reflex deflex long bow preforms so well, you gained a sub and thumbs up for that.

[@frankbarbagallo9399]

Thanks Kramer for another awesome video and all the hard work you put into them! I’m working on my 24th self bow. I’m 71 years old and never get tired of archery.

[@rozell2820]

I talked to Cas yesterday about sending my bow in to reduce the weight. As a Retired Disabled Veteran, I truly appreciate good quality work and customer service. Thank you for everything you do.

[@bubblehead5394]

Thank you for sharing that you are a Retired Disabled Veteran.

[@havahand]

I'm not sure why Trey didn't mention it, but he is largely responsible for designing (or contributing to) the world's only symmetrical grip, ambidextrous ILF horsebow -- and it's beautiful, really! This dude is an effervescent wellspring on the subject of archery. Thanks, Shatterproof, for all the great stuff and this video in particular.

[@aeliascent1174]

oo what bow is that?

[@matthewdee6023]

Suggestion - compare/contrast Ottoman bows with Manchu bows. Both have static tips, but the speed/weight tradeoffs are very different: may help to illustrate how limb size/weight etc. contribute the the speed and weight of the arrow that can be shot? (Seriously, look up Manchu bows, they're nuts 🙂)

[@FutureRobinHood]

Their shortness adds further to the impressive arrow speed as well!

[@markmann6796]

Extremely helpful video. Think about how much more productive beginning bowyers would be learning, these mechanics from the get-go. Couldn’t agree more about shatterproof. These guys are fresh great honest and refreshing.

[@matthewy8923]

It's a very good topic! I am waiting for the testing results!

[@Lost_Hwasal]

Siyahs are good for heavy arrows, not so much for light arrows. Thats why SIds bows (i own one) shine with over 10gpp arrows. Regarding siyahs, if you compare a large siyahd bow like a manchu to a bow with no or very little static tip like a turkish or korean, the turkish and korean bows are capable of shooting much faster. For heavy arrows having a leverage arm like a siyah is good, for lighter arrows the more the limb deflects = the more energy being stored in the bow = faster arrow flight. Have you ever seen an unstrung horn bow? They are literally a C when unstrung. Are they unstable? To get strung up yes, otherwise they shoot just fine.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

... If the siya levers, reduce the bow draw poundage gained, after a point (Ie. 28inch +) Despite not gaining poundage, I would still think that the longer draw, would equate to more time on string? And transfer more energy to the arrow?

[@jacobhochstetler825]

You are correct, but it is a marginal increase as the total stored energy in the bow does not change much. Mainly due to the limb shape. In other shapes an increase in 1-2" draw length has significant arrow speed increases.

[@jkre]

As another bowyer focusing on speed, here is my theory why same limbs angling backwards would be faster. Okay, so when the limb angle is backwards, it doesn't force the curve so much to the inner limb. When the limb is more forward, it's going to want to rip it self out of the riser more, but it cannot, so it bends the inner limb instead. Why is this important? Because when the bending happens in the inner limbs, it has the longest lenght of limb to move around, which means greatest amount of energy loss to moving the limb tip. When the inner limbs are backwards, the work is done more in the mid and outer limbs. Anyone that has ever went to fishing, knows that the fish weights way more when holding at the end of the fishing pole than directly at the line, there is similar situation. The fishing pole acts as a lever helping the fishes weight to drag down your arms. Same in the bow, the longer the limb from the point of stored energy, the more it struggles to move the arrow. This is why Norwegian military bow is the fastest bow design I know of. It is very much lost to history, not many people even knows it exists. It is like an English longbow, with part of the limb being flatbow limb, the outer half, but it also has narrow and light tips, similar to mollegabet levers but shorter, it is kinda like a paddle bow with long longbow riser. This results into a tiller that has the most of the bend close to the tips, so the energy stored has very short limb to move, while also being long so the distance those limb tips need to travel is also short. It's a perfect combination of everything that makes bows fast, low moving mass, short working section, short distance for the energy to transfer and short distance for the tips to move.

[@derrickray5464]

This is really fascinating! I dig that crazy recurve.

[@pyramid_scheme_termination3655]

Internet. Is there a sweet spot for the optimum ggp and drawlength to produce the fastest arrow speed without breaking your bow due to partial dry fire?

[@jasonwalton2161]

There are charts for spine, grains per poundage, and arrow length. A friend of mine cut his arrows for more speed to the point a broad head cut his finger at full draw. They are talking bows , but you can change speed by changing arrows point weight.

[@ernestroger3326]

Kramer , I am trying to build the bow you made of Poplar wood with fiberglass backing on the back side of the limbs . My bow is going to be 58” . I think I hogged off too much wood on the belly of the bow . I am left with about 1/4 inch . Also , should the thickness of the limbs be the same thickness from tip to handle ? I appreciate any advice you send my way . Ernie

[@smalls207]

Fantastic video! Awesome channel!

[@shaunbarta7990]

Great video bud. Thanks for the content

[@-fazik-3713]

Superb video!

[@reapergrim76]

Neat stuff! 😀

[@blitzkriegfritz2779]

They act as a lever? So they basically built it like it was a compound bow with rollers on the tips.

[@AaronBleess-yz4cw]

Wow there was a lot in this video. I’ll have to watch this one again.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

6:04 Physics would seem to suggest, That there are pros / cons, to stiff outer limbs. the lever. Levers, can be very powerful in physics, if applied correctly. On one hand, the stiff limb is not bending. So it is not flexing in the draw, and therefore it is not springing in the release... In addition, the non working lever, is mass. Thus it must overcome through physics, what it is detrimenting, through increased, non working, mass. Ie. I read, that nocks are often desired to be minimal, especially outside the string, because that mass can force the bow to work harder to move the limb. And outside the string, does not add leverage as the interior lever does. Longbows, as you mentioned, have slim limbs and limb tips, reducing mass... Which begs the question, what is the ratio of productive efficient mass. Stiff level limbs are intriguing to me. Narrow left to right, streamlined, aerodynamic, minimizing drag resistance. Retaining its mass for its momentum and durability, in its depth, front to back. Which stiffens the limb tip into a lever. This changes several. Factors. As your image shows, the working 'inner limb', is a shorter section. Concentrating the draw weight into a 'snappy release' At the same time, retaining some of the benefits of the longer limb. Ie. The extra leverage makes it feel easier to draw more weight, or, multiply the same draw weight, to apply more force to the bow and string, increasing speed. If you can do that, with less total limb mass, that would seem to decrease drag. While increasing aerodynamics, reducing drag. Allowing the release energy to more efficiently move the string, to drive the arrow... I think, that per inch of draw length (Ie. 26",27,28,29 etc) A traditional Longbow with bending limbs and limb tips, (full working limbs) Loses some of its draw weight gains in the final inches of its draw, Compared to with the stiff lever limbs, Which transfer some of that late draw length, back into the snappy inner working limb. Again though, increasing snappy speedy release, while retaining or reducing draw weight, Due to, reduced drag, and longer limb levers.

[@jacobhochstetler825]

Just a point of clarification, the amount of flexion in the limb determines the stores energy more than the length. Much like a spring the amount of force increases the further it is lengthened. The lever effect of static tips causes more compression and tension in a smaller area than could be achieved otherwise. Obviously materials and only bend so far before they are damaged though, and that is when increasing the length of the flexed area allows for more stored energy. As far a drag goes, i would love to see some attention paid to the shape of the longbow limbs. A pseudo airfoil design would greatly reduce drag.

[@markroberts6971]

Interesting that some of the very short and light ancient history Asiatic/Ottoman bows have had long distance shooting records between 500/800 yards, long exceeding long bows.

[@matthewyu3531]

Very good!

[@anthonyforfare7223]

Great content ❤👍🤩

[@vieuxacadian9455]

Interesting . thanks. I think the fastest I have seen so far was Border bows and Black Swan ( I've had two) .

[@YouTubeHandlesAreMoronic]

I'm soooo tempted to call security...

[@serban13tana1]

Horse bow long bow? Say whaaat?

[@StumpArchery]

Kramer thank you for such wonderful information. Can you spell Trey’s last name and share his video also. Very interesting in limb design speed results

[@markroberts6971]

I too think it would be very helpful to credit and give Trey’s last name, and a link to his website or KZbin channel. Very good presentation.

[@royeasom432]

"Stole an idea" then proceeds to explain how you have no idea how border builds their bows. You should definitely consult beforehand

[@longdrawarcher4857]

First comment

[@WhiteSandsMbuna]

This guy is no math genius. Less mass accelerates faster. More mass retains energy. A longer limb is traveling faster at the tip than a short limb. Higher pretension is more force with less travel. This is the same guy that said compound pull with half the force of a recurve because the cams reduce pull weight. Well the 60# pull of a compound is reduced by cams from the 315# of force the limbs contain.

[@thormidthagahast8914]

I think it's probably OK to call men.....men.

[@caelenb6436]

Hey I just ordered a bowstring! I was the fool who clicked the wrong one the first time…..

[@johnshort4421]

Ok, now tell me how all this is done to each and every draw length requested for custom bow builds? Are limbs made to get the most out of a requested 25” draw length or are all bows built to the 28” draw length and a magic number of addition or subtraction to pounds per inch pulled?