Faster, Cheaper, Better? iDraw vs. Axidraw Showdown! | a.k.a. bad cables, good speed.

[@revdancatt]

For what kinds of projects and scenarios would you prefer to use the iDraw machine?

[@Cybertruck1000]

Would be great to see you take say a well known drawing/painting and recreate it with computer generated effects. How about using charcoal and paint in some way. Pretty endless options these plotters give us. There is some pretty stunning work out there but also a lot potential to exploit the use of plotters.

[@greyclassic6563]

Faking the funk

[@sandrobretthauer4497]

A cable chain attached to the carriage from the origin can solve the cable management issue :)

[@hosseinahmadi4622]

I love your videos Dan , I always wonder why these plotter manufactures don’t adopt core xy or Hbot mechanism which I believe are faster and more accurate !

[@revdancatt]

I wish I knew, perhaps as the market continues to grow more alternatives will come in.

[@LeonS359]

Great video. As to your "cons for the IDraw: 1) It appears that for italic plotting you can move the plotting surface over towards the origin by loosening the 4 screws that secure it to the frame and slidding it over and retightening the screws. 2) I agree the cable managent fo t he x-axis is shabby. A little DIY effort could make a simple elevated support attached to the X-axis cross bar and suspend the cable in the air from it with some rubber bands. Wouldn't take much to keep things moving reliably. Your comments are dead on for the delivered "as-built" cable magement solution provided. I had questions about the pen lift: 1) Does the pen lift use a servo similae to the axidraw? 2) Is it as noisy as the axidraw?

[@revdancatt]

I tried moving the surface over a bit by loosening the 4 screws, but it only slides over so far, which isn't enough. I would remove it but the electronics are attached to the underside. Perhaps I'll show that in a follow up. Servo, nope, it uses a stepper motor and thick elastic band set-up, which is actually pretty good. It's faster than the stock AxiDraw and adds more downwards pressure, double thumbs up on that. Definitely has an edge over the axidraw on being quieter, I mean it's still noisy, but not _as_ noisy.

[@pabloazocar]

great video again and that obstacle course looks fun! ... I feel you pain about making this video.

[@revdancatt]

Thanks, and yeah, glad it's over, hopefully the next few will be easier.

[@morozgrafix]

Thanks for a great comparison. I wonder if idraw plotter can be mounted vertically, given that pen down isn't depending on gravity. All thing considered, I think I would end up getting Axidraw just for Evil Mad Scientist support and open source development. (Full disclosure: I already have an A4 version of the Axidraw and I think EMS is a big part of the plotter community)

[@revdancatt]

Yeah, I love the EMS community. I do love that iDraw seem to be pretty committed to joining in, and having alternatives is always good and trying out different types of motors too. Definitely a place for both of them. I said somewhere else that I like leaving the AxiDraw working on a long slow plot, while letting the iDraw bust out a whole bunch of postcards. They both have a space here in the studio for sure.

[@morozgrafix]

@@revdancatt absolutely agree. It's great to see healthy competition and new innovative products in this space. Looking forward to future videos.

[@HollowfiedNaruto]

thanks for the video learned alot. love the personality, and elevator music!

[@revdancatt]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Cybertruck1000]

I can't imagine spending hundreds on a commercial plotter. They are easy enough to built out of every day materials. Lots of videos on youtube to give you options and ideas. I went down the road of having XYZ constructed out of Din rails with carriages riding on them. Arduino running Grbl, Grbl shield, 3 stepper motors. G code generated by Inkscape and modified Makelangelo. There is an online CNC programme called Easel that can also be utilised for quicker results. I produced some pretty decent images and learned a lot building it myself. I think going down the DIY route it could easily be done for less than £50. I noticed in your demo the pen waggled as it's high off the paper, If you can get the end of the pen gripped and held close to the surface you'll get better accuracy/definition. Thanks for the video btw. Do you plan to show us some of the software?

[@revdancatt]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm happy there's lots of other videos about building your own plotter, because that means there's also room for making videos about spending hundreds on a commercial plotter, for people like me who don't have the time or inclination to self build. But yeah, I'm planning to go through the software at some point.

[@tonyleotta6715]

Dan, love your vids. I really need your advice on which pen plotter I should buy. I'm leaning towards the idraw 2.0 a0, because I want to create huge drawings. The a0 is 1400 on Amazon. Your advice is to buy a T a3, not a H a0 a1 a2 or a3. You said to reposition paper using a a3 T. let's say I want create really large illuminated manuscript, Using the a0 H to pencil in guide lines, then I'll by hand do huge black letters, majors, floral borders etc.

[@thomaslauridsen9667]

Hi Dan, Could it be that reason for the Axidraw using almost the same time independent on the speed setting is that it's limited by a fixed acceleration? Plotting a lot of small lines with sharp angles causes it to never reach the full speed. That would also explain why the continuous line plot are more comparable in terms of speed between the two machines.

[@revdancatt]

Yup, I think that's it, the fixed acceleration. Given long sweeping lines the AxiDraw does better. But the movement when the pen is up (and down) is generally faster on the iDraw, so if you're doing anything other than drawing lots of long lines where the start and end points are optimised then the iDraw will out perform I think. I'm definitely enjoying having the AxiDraw doing a nice slow plot, while the iDraw blasts out a bunch of postcard plots!

[@walterhynson2898]

please read my comment above concerning the controllers and microstepping and tweeking the feed

[@revdancatt]

Would you prioritise speed or precision when choosing a pen plotter machine?

[@rohanglenmartin]

Thanks for that. On the topic of cable management, could you attach it to an upright spring, one that will bend but return to position once tension is removed?

[@diegomonzon]

Have you tried the Vector to Gcode 2 application ? I would love to hear your opinion.

[@revdancatt]

I haven't (yet) but I'll add it to my list of things to try, especially now I'm wanting to do a bit more with Gcode.

[@remainzz]

Do they both use gravity for the downwards force? Or does either push down with a controllable amount? thanks

[@revdancatt]

They both use gravity for downwards force, which isn't controllable. However the mechanism the iDraw uses does exert some extra downwards force then the axidraw. Sometimes you see people adding a little jam jar onto, or taping coins to the pen to add downwards force, but you can only add so much before the default servo can't lift the pen back up. You can buy a brushless servo kit for the AxiDraw (and that'll come with the new NextDraw machines as default I think), which has a stronger servo, and a spring you can add to the pen holder that adds more downwards force, which is a lot better.

[@metaphysicalArtist]

Great video, Dan, and I appreciate your style! You mentioned that you're not a big fan of Inkscape. I'm considering using an HA3 pen plotter, but I've never worked with one before. I have some line drawings in Corel 10 (from 2000, so it's old and simple). Will .cdr files work directly with the HA3? 🙃 If not, do you have any recommendations on how to convert my .cdr files or save them in another format for use with the HA3? Additionally, besides Inkscape, what other software do you recommend? 🤔

[@revdancatt]

While I don't like Inkscape myself, because I like to just send SVG files to the plotter directly. If you have weird stuff you have to handle then it's worth firing InkScape up just to check things. InkScape can read in _some_ versions of .cdr files, that it's earlier will probably work in your favour. There's also a good chance you can select-all/copy in Corel and paste into InkScape if the import doesn't work. Both of those will let you convert to an SVG for the plotter, although at that point you may as well use the InkScape plugin that comes with HA3 to plot it. If ALL THAT fails, then there's a couple of online tools you could try like: cloudconvert.com/cdr-to-svg Hope something in there works for you.

[@metaphysicalArtist]

@@revdancatt Thanks Dan, your a good informative KZbinr (but I have to increase x1.25 your video speed) Hope to see more H A3 videos, I have not received mine yet, but my old SVG might work directly as you say!

[@metaphysicalArtist]

I noticed that you added a small glass bottle as extra weight to your pens. Do you have a short video explaining the circumstances and reasons for incorporating such practical wizardry into your craft?

[@theikimento]

Can you create a personalized fonts here?

[@JanKrummrey]

what language do both machines use? Could I draw with them from a processing script?

[@revdancatt]

The both have python libraries, which are simple enough to pick up even if you don't know python. But, they also both consume SVG files, which I believe process can export, processing.org/reference/libraries/svg/index.html So you'd do your design in processing, export as an SVG, then most likely InkScape to load it up and send it to either machine.

[@adrimathlener8008]

How do you optimise a plot file? If I search via Google most tools optimise for website, not for plotters

[@Adrischa]

Probably vpype

[@pieterdesmijter420]

Do you also have better/other servos for the idraw?thx. Great vid.

[@revdancatt]

This servo is fixed, although in this case it's a stepper motors and the way its put together gives it a little more downwards force to pretty good out of the box tbh.

[@Cybertruck1000]

@@revdancatt Rather than "downward force", if you use the stepper/servo attached to the pen carriage with a wire you can add or subtract weight to the pen carriage giving greater or lesser weight to the pen as required.

[@suzituem1744]

I’m really enjoying my idraw, only thing I can’t figure out is stopping the mark it leaves when raising/down to start another line. Any ideas?

[@latoshagreenleaf9343]

Hello, can either machine be used on a canvas?

[@nsriv225]

Hi Dan, I've been looking into getting a pen plotter and was watching the latest video on the iDraw H plotter from thedotisblack (kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpWZZImIlrxkZ5Y) and at around 6:52 he had a very easy solution to the floppy cable sleeve issue you experienced. Basically, insert a cable tie into the sleeve housing on both ends to give the cable some extra rigidity. Thought this would be useful for you to see as well!

[@TheBloodyice]

If i jst want to get started with this kind of Hobby, what u recommend for low Budget? :D

[@walterhynson2898]

here is your problem both machines the speed is controlled by the feed amount in the gcode ,also the controller can be changed in both machines to make them exactly equal ,yes the high dollar machine is running a $30.00 Chinese built controller that allows micro-stepping while the Axi-draw is running a Chinese built controller costing $12.00 to $ 15.00 that does not allow microstepping ,now lets look at the pen lift mechansim again the high dollar machine is using a device that is simular to a head mover used in antique disk drives : yes it works but in reality it is slower than the servo driven device again it is really controlled by the Feed or machine speed as set in the gcode. now lets look at this speed thing another way who and what is the purpose of the machine as the orignal purpose of a pen plotter was to draw for engineers using early versions of Auto-cad and were built by HP, Now they are play toys for hobbiest, who do not really care about speed but the amount of money the thing cost , now and I will close with this use Inkscape and draw a square do the conversion to gcode but set the feed exactly the same for both machines and they will complete the job within the same time frame and if you want one to finish before the other simply tweek the FEED.

[@marcmagu]

Hello, on complex plots, my iDraw A3 H often "freeze" and start again with a significant shift in the plot (several millimeters). Certainly a micro USB connection lost... Do you encounter this issue too ? Does th Axidraw have the same kind of problem ? I'm planning to buy an A1 plotter and I would like to make the good choice for complex plots...

[@carlschmiedeke151]

You put the zip ties inside the cable housing to make a bridge, 1 on each side of cable housing to make a full bridge/arch, problem solved

[@revdancatt]

Thanks! It still ends up being _really tight_, more than I'd like. Another couple of cm of cable and it'd be perfect.