How to fix Bump Steer in your 1964 through 1972 GM A-Body

[@FastMonty]

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[@swwash]

I have a 1968 Chevelle, and it had drum brakes on all 4 wheels. I do now have disks all the way around. I too now have the tubular A arms as I pulled the ball joint, while driving, out of the lower driver's side, and don't ever want that to happen again! Today going over a larger bump on Hwy101, the car took off to the right. Not a great feeling! I'm now going to order the new parts shown here. I have to ask if I'm going to have to take it back 8n for an alignment as I just had it done. I'm also going to check the tie rods as I haven't since I stuffed the wheel up into the fender. Thanks for the video!

[@FastMonty]

Thanks for sharing... congrats on upgrading to discs and tubular A Arms. Yeah, get that bump steer fixed, and you'll need a new alignment, to be safe. I agree lets not have any more ball joint failures... hope to see you around. (You're obviously in California) See ya!

[@GT-37]

Stock caliper bolts are rough to remove. Especially since they are Allen heads. I had to cut through the hardened steel bolt to get it off. Just enough for a 3” cutoff wheel. Your videos are very helpful as I just purchased my first A body and starting my upgrades from stock.

[@FastMonty]

Yep! Those 50 year old stuck on bolts are no joke. Congrats on your first A Body! Thanks for the comment!

[@WaveCrusher]

There he goes again. Solving problems I didn’t know I was going to have. Thanks again!

[@FastMonty]

Ha! Love it, Thanks!

[@KiddiR]

Thanks Monty... Regards from Iceland

[@FastMonty]

Welcome! Hope you get driving weather soon! Ha, ha...

[@GlobalWestSuspension]

Looking good Monty!!

[@FastMonty]

Thanks! Can't wait to align and test drive it!

[@GlobalWestSuspension]

@@FastMonty excited for the next video!!

[@towniepats4409]

Thank You for another great video, I like the way you explain everything. You have the one of the coolest Pontiac’s I’ve ever seen.

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Townie! Much appreciated!

[@punishergto5182]

Usually bump steer fixes convert the outer tie rod to heim and you use a regular bolt and shims to correct. What I noticed was you have drop spindles. They make factory bump steer worse by moving the spindle location away from the steering arm. That gives the spindle more mechanical advantage over the steering arm. Another bump steer related issue our cars have is a positive camber gain. Which makes the top of the tire go out (instead of in) and lifts the inside of the tire off the ground. A sudden camber change over bumps will also cause the bump steer feeling. The best way to correct for that is a tall ball joint. There are some tall spindles available also. This will give negative camber gain, better cornering traction, and increase tire to fender clearance.

[@FastMonty]

Good stuff, brother. Yeah, drop spindles, and after market A Arms will make the stock bump steer issue worse. Which is why these are an ideal fix. Agreed about taller spindles, which is on my to do list, but not an easy project. (I really don't want to take off my perfectly aligned fenders. :) Anyway, camber can always be adjusted, as detailed in my alignment videos. Thanks again!

[@punishergto5182]

@@FastMonty you should be able to add tall ball joints to your current upper arms or change to a tall spindle like chassisworks or AFX. Without removing the fenders.

[@FastMonty]

@@punishergto5182 Ahhh, yeah, you're totally right. I was thinking about the taller shock mounts, too early for me... not enough coffee. Ha, ha.. Thanks!

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

I never experienced bump steer with my unmodified factory suspension setup, this is misleading. It makes me cry seeing these cars butchered.

[@punishergto5182]

@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 you can measure it for yourself. The suspension was designed intensionally to be poor to push customers to purchase higher end cars. These were the "cheap" cars of their day. No different than changing from bias ply to radial tires. Technology improved and the difference is unmistakable. If you like stock leave it stock.

[@stevenb3027]

another great tutorial i actually have these arms on my car but have not used them yet since the car is still in a build stage ... keep the info flowing i have learned alot

[@FastMonty]

Awesome Steven! Sounds like a legit testimonial to me! Thanks for chiming in!

[@sullie35]

Thanks for the videos. Keep them coming for so many reasons it would take a while to list. Mainly PONTIAC Videos....

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Sullie! Will do!

[@PaulsProTips]

I noticed the GW arms are just a bit shorter too. Thanks for bolting them together and showing us. If you haven't done the other side yet, can you compare the two, so we can see what geometry change looks like before and after?

[@FastMonty]

Good question, Paul... nope, too late. When I had them on the car, it's really hard to see the difference from side to side. But, you're right, the new arms are slightly shorter, and twisted, as I showed. I drove it around the block, and didn't notice any difference, but I still have to complete my alignment. So, hopefully you'll see if the alignment changed, next week. Thanks!

[@Oldsmob455]

How is bump steer measured? You just changed an arm in this video. Good alignment series by the way.

[@FastMonty]

Thanks! And, great question... I'm sure there's some sort of math involved with control arm angles, etc... I just don't know the answer. The new arm has a different angle built in... next experiment for me is to get TALL spindles. Can't wait! Thanks for the comment.

[@mattyoung589]

Thanks just ordered, have my 67 tore apart upgrading to umi upper and lower control arms willwood brakes and proforged steering components so I figured might as well fo this to

[@FastMonty]

Nice! Such an easy fix, especially before everything's put together. Thanks for the comment! I'll let GW know it was all my fault that you placed an order. ha, ha... Thanks for the comment!

[@MrGalantStudio]

Aweee Shucks… He Called Me An EXPERT!! 😊😊

[@FastMonty]

Well, it certainly ain't me. Ha, ha...

[@brianmartin1133]

I will have to do this in the future luckily mine GTO has all new suspension

[@FastMonty]

Agreed! Thanks Brian!

[@cbrSpeedster1]

Will you need to realign it again or no? Good videos..

[@FastMonty]

Thanks... You don't "Have to" But, you should. :)

[@rohrt1]

The video on the GW site is pretty good at showing how these steering arms correct bump steer. They show moving the whole front up and down with before and after measurements. Would it matter if only one side goes up while the other side goes down as happens during hard cornering? Its amazing such a small change makes such a big difference.

[@FastMonty]

Yeah Ryan, that GW video is eye opening, for sure. Which is why I bought em. The bump steer is an independent issue, from side to side. So, there's no telling what our wheels are doing from left to right, my guess is one is toeing in, and the other would be toeing out. I think I'd much prefer we keep that change to a minimum, ha, ha... thanks for the comment!

[@mikeburnett7028]

Use extreme caution when using standard sockets instead of impact sockets when using an impact gun, as they could shatter due to torque. Also use safety glasses ESPECIALLY if not using impact sockets.

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Mike! You know me... living life on the edge. :) So, how was the topic?

[@mikeburnett7028]

Topic was fine. I drive a 71 big block nova so won't work for me. But always enjoy your videos because they are a little different than the others out there

[@FastMonty]

@@mikeburnett7028 Ha! Thanks Mike... enjoy that Nova!

[@dakotasclassiccars7246]

@@mikeburnett7028 I have a 68 Nova and I was actually wondering if global weather made these for the nova. Getting ready to put my subframe all back together in the spring using the global west solid body mounts. Novas are my favorite.

[@Matthew-21_22]

Happy New Year Mike! Glad your back making videos. Excellent video. Thought I knew a lot, even about GTO's but learned something! Never heard of bump steer. Watched your video and the maker of piece videos. It really eliminated the travel and a pretty simple genius solution. Didn't know that much about the rear suspension but its all fascinating. Keep up your truly informative work, Tom

[@FastMonty]

Happy New Year, Tom! Yeah, I felt the same way when I came across it, at Global West's site. Totally explains some of my steering issues... now the alignment fun begins! Ha, ha... thanks again for the comment!

[@63grandsport11]

Thanks FM.

[@FastMonty]

Welcome!

[@johnkennedy8452]

Deep Creep penetrating oil made by Seafoam works great for me on old rusty bolts and nuts

[@FastMonty]

Thanks John!

[@Scottf5937]

Great video on an interesting product. I think we would all like to know if you noticed any difference in daily driving?

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Scott... Yeah, as soon as I get my alignment finished, it's game on! Stay tuned!

[@RayCatalinaX]

If nuts or bolts are rusted on, sometimes applying a little heat will cause the rust to release the threads.

[@FastMonty]

Good tip Ray, thanks for the comment!

[@joeveasy1022]

Does your 69 gto have Global Suspension rear coilover kit with the stabilizer bar ?

[@FastMonty]

Kinda... :) Global West has TWO different rear coilover setups. One has angled coilovers, similar to stock, and a simple bolt in procedure. The other has vertical coilovers mounted where the stock springs used to sit. I have the vertical set up, but I do NOT have the sway bar installed. Why do you ask?

[@joeveasy1022]

@@FastMonty I have a 69 gto and want to upgrade for street driving, better handing.

[@joeveasy1022]

I was looking at the coilovers where the stock spring is replaced and the coil over is mounted at the shock locations. Global West states that the stabilizer bar in their kit distributes the force/stress from the shock mounting area. Im not sure how much of a benefit it would be. I guess the overall question is if your happy with GW.

[@FastMonty]

@@joeveasy1022 I love their set ups... the rear stabilizer is different than the strut support. I have this on my to-do list for a new rear end, suspension upgrade, where I'm keeping the vertical coilovers, but might be adding some other tricks. Try and get someone from Global West on the phone to go over the details of each rear kit. The vertical coilover kit I have requires a lot of welding. The other kit is bolt in.

[@FastMonty]

@@joeveasy1022 Do it! You'll love it.

[@rybuddy]

Did you have a clip missing on your brake line bracket where the hardline meets the flex line?

[@FastMonty]

Yup! Good catch.

[@mrwatthe]

Love it! So this will work on a factory setup?

[@FastMonty]

Yep! All A Body's have that defect.

[@johnmilner7603]

5:45 Your missing the lock clip on your brake hose.😊

[@FastMonty]

Yup. Cuz my new clips didn't fit. Still need to modify that bracket.

[@flyinhighaerial3193]

any videoswheel hop for my 69 chevelle which has new everything in rear including boxed trailing arms. help

[@FastMonty]

I'm changing my rear set up pretty soon... I'll research more about wheel hop and try to cover it then. Stay Tuned!

[@flyinhighaerial3193]

I am going to try adjustable upper rear trailing arms before perhaps southside machine bars.

[@FastMonty]

@@flyinhighaerial3193 yup, I think pinion angle is a factor. Upper adjustable will help. Which I have. Keep us posted!

[@FastMonty]

Maybe also get new bushings... I read if they're too soft it allows the rear end to pivot too much. Good luck! @@flyinhighaerial3193

[@davidrosenthal735]

Hi Mike, great video, THANKS !!! My question is, what was your GTO doing as you drove it that made you replace the control arms. I have a 64 Malibu SS with tubular upper and lowers, disc brakes and a Unisteer rack and pinion system. After all this was installed I had the front end aligned. As I drove home my car was not pulling either way at all but it was drifting and I was constantly correcting and don’t even think of stomping on the gas. After watching your video and Global West’s as well I think bump steer is my issue.

[@FastMonty]

Good question... I think I mentioned it in the video, I hit a dip in the road, and the car darted to the left. If your car misbehaves when the suspension moves, you have a bump steer issue. It's also a relatively easy upgrade, as a "just in case" solution too... hope that helps!

[@davidrosenthal735]

Hi Mike, after speaking to you last about my bump steer issue I determined it could be a negative camber issue I have and with the upper control arm cross shafts against the frame’s bracket there’s no adjustment in the positive direction. The upper and lower control arms are made by different manufacturers so I decided rather than using an offset shaft to replace the lower arms since I installed the uppers and have no idea of the manufacturer of the lowers, hopefully this will bring the bottom of the wheel inward. Another reason for this comment is I’ve watched several videos from others and so far have not seen a thorough explanation for this project. I see your GTO has tubular a-arms but no video of when you installed them. I’m very spoiled with the videos you produce as they are clear and complete. Thanks for what you do.

[@FastMonty]

@@davidrosenthal735 I assume you measured your camber? Assuming you're past .5 degrees, I would agree your lowers might not match your uppers. Mine are both from Global West... a video does not exist because I didn't know about KZbin until I was done with the project. :) Welp, I'm never "done" lol... Let us know how you end up fixing it! Thanks for your comment!

[@russbonneau9152]

how does it feel to drive it now in the city or highway?

[@FastMonty]

Been Great! Haven't seen you in a while... hope all is well. See ya!

[@russbonneau9152]

@@FastMonty I've been enjoying my car since i rebuilt the engine thanks to your help. nice and dry with the 1-piece bop seal!

[@FastMonty]

@@russbonneau9152 Ha! That's great to hear! thanks for the comment!

[@spinedoc893]

My understanding is bump steer is much more pronounced with rack and pinion steering??? I have a 67 Chevelle with stock steering/suspension and would love to upgrade my steering. I'm told there isn't much point in upgrading to rack and pinion steering unless you upgrade suspension to tubular A arms? In fact I hear that rack and pinion upgrade without suspension upgrade can cause handling issues?? Any advice/opinions?? Are there upgrades to the stock steering box/system that can reduce that mushy vague stock steering feel without going to rack and pinion and is rack and pinion worth it for a cruiser type application (ie not looking to make a track car just something that handles more like a modern car)??

[@FastMonty]

Good questions! I don't know much about rack and pinions... besides they're a pain in the ass to install into an A Body. That said, yes, you can upgrade your current steering box. Mine is from AGR. 12 to 1 ratio. I love it. Have fun!

[@aiselrodriguez5107]

Hi Sr. sorry by my English ,finally I fo y found someone talking about my problem, I have a question. I bought the drop cups with spacers, I drop like 2" my tahoe 2016 but a that Point the Outer Tie Rod is not horizontal like the chevy comes as factory o maybe a little down inclination, now after I drop it, has some up inclination , so when you get a bump in the road in only one side, the outer tie rod pull too much towards in the wheel in and it becomes inestable the car, I feel the car shake in the front a some inestability and my wheel steering shake too, so if you drop more the car is going to be worse, could you recommend me any solution, I thing that with the spindles is the same thing, what do you thing, thank you, good video.

[@FastMonty]

Good question... and yes, you''re experiencing Bump Steer. I would suggest searching for a bump steer fix, or tie-rod alignment kit, for lowered late model GM trucks. I'm sure it exists, I'm just not an expert on newer vehicles. Good luck, and thanks for the comment!

[@69Applekrate]

Also interchanges with 69-72 "G" body ( GP & Monte )

[@FastMonty]

Good to know! Thanks!

[@detroitchris8724]

Detroit Chris here,,, pre oil ur shit,,,,, best advice I can give

[@FastMonty]

What are you referring to?

[@detroitchris8724]

@Fast Monty's Garage anything ur gonna work on ,, pb blaster,,

[@FastMonty]

@@detroitchris8724 Ahhhh yeah, agreed! Thanks!

[@NapaHarp]

I would like to see an actual unbiased review of the arms with a test drive and "Did it fix" the bump steer issue on your car?

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Tom, I agree... I still need to check the alignment, then I'll drive it harder. But, it's a well known fact that GM A-Body's have a bump steer issue, so I'm confident Global West fixed it. We shall see... Thanks for the comment!

[@kellynestegard5208]

Most Ponchos were built with negative caster, so in a sense, you are fixing a problem of your own creation.

[@FastMonty]

Agreed, but this video is about bump steer, not Caster. Thanks.

[@roncrow7976]

Great video! Kind of off topic but I was wondering what size your wheels and tires are, and what backspacing are you using? Also wondering if any mods were done for clearance in the rear? I have a 68 that I'm getting ready to order the suspension and wheels and tires for. Love your car!

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Ron! My wheels are 20x10 with 295/30-20's and 19x8.5 with 255/35-19's... I honestly don't know the back spacing, because I custom ordered them. I used a measurement tool called a Percy's Wheel Rite offset measurement tool. It's around $80, I highly recommend it. Oh, and no mods to the rear, yet. :) (Yeah, I want 325's back there some day) Thanks again!

[@masoncampos7043]

What did you decide to go with? I have a 68 too. I really like the Rally II's but also want a 10" wide in the rear. Mine have a 5.5 backspacing that sicks out a bit too much

[@rdbierma]

Did I miss the part about doing the alignment at home?

[@FastMonty]

Good question Ross... it's the video after this one. Sometimes it doesn't show the next video in the playlist... but, here it is. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXLbopqkmZdppKs Thanks!

[@richmargadonna2155]

Hey my friend. It looks like you don't have your front brake rigid tube secured into the frame bracket. That's not like you at all.

[@FastMonty]

Ha! Yeah, good catch... on my list. lol

[@joshbrekke6374]

Do yourself a favor and brake clean off the anti-seize compound on each of your lug studs. I’ve seen many customers loose a wheel. It’s not worth the risk, trust me on this. I lil squirt of motor oil works a lot better on each one.

[@FastMonty]

I'll have to research where I learned to put anti-seize on those studs. Thanks for pointing that out, and leaving a comment. See ya!

[@joshbrekke6374]

@@FastMonty I’m writing to you with some experience about this. If I didn’t give two shits i would not write. Back in the mid 1990,s I lost a wheel. Scared the hell out of me. They were torqued to spec, antisieze was the cause. Many customers in the past at Firestone & the Various GM Dealerships I have worked also, same thing. Especially HD trucks some friends of mine in the HD truck market have discovered. I am a GM & ASE certified technician with over 20yrs of experience. I’m also a Pontiac Enthusiast. Over the last 7yrs I have been in the CNC Department at QA1. My 1964 Tempest is a R&D vehicle. It’s built for go, not show. For now. Antisieze is not safe to use on lug nuts, they wiggle loose. Usually on the freeway.

[@FastMonty]

@@joshbrekke6374 Thanks Josh! I appreciate the time you took to warn us of the pitfalls... Thanks!

[@josephgeorgeejr7039]

I could swear in beginning u said 101 was the driver's side?

[@FastMonty]

Did I? I probably said the correct thing. Ha, ha...

[@gregschultz2029]

😎😊👍

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Greg!

[@masoncampos7043]

Sooo, a torch, big crescent wrench, and BFH= save $150 🤷

[@FastMonty]

Ha! A decent BFH would cost about $150... so, which is cheaper? ha, ha....

[@masoncampos7043]

@Fast Monty's Garage well since Fords break down so much every good mechanic should already have one in the box! Lol

[@FastMonty]

@@masoncampos7043 Ha! Agreed!

[@yafois988]

Question, since you went large rortors in front, how has breaking ben in general?? Really like the idea. NOW Mister, I want you to give your wife a 45 minute shoulder and neck massage !!! For all your time away from helping her burn the soufflé you should have been in the house watching over as a husband!!

[@FastMonty]

Braking is incredible! Time away? I'm in the garage... not hanging out at a bar, not spending hours away on a golf course... I'm in the garage, at home. My wife appreciates that, more than you know. Thanks!