The Swinging Up On The Serve Mystery Explained

[@RonaldJohnson-fv5ht]

Watched 3 of these videos and now subscribed. As a person who doesn’t get much out of 2 minute videos, absolutely loving the details and learning so much more than I previously knew. Thanks, this stuff is crucial for developing an understanding and improving my skills!

[@RachelWhelton]

You do a great service to tennis when you make this lesson available internationally and free on the internet. I can imagine that intelligent players and coaches all over the world can use this as part of their learning to make better players. You might not be able to know how many players you influence over time, especially when you reach to a coach who reaches to players. Thanks for going into to detail.

[@david_ak]

Tomaz, you have the most intelligent and creative tennis analysis on the internet. Always look forward to your stuff.

[@yuk2k]

David Kim Agreed.

[@dionisis11]

LIkewise!!

[@berndklumpp7790]

Agreed.

[@user87546]

I agree

[@hyperphantom3313]

The best explanation about tennis serves I have ever seen! All the beginners should see this analysis on the first day of their practice so that they do not waste their time repeating wrong swings.

[@Chryslerx88]

Absolutely amazing lessons. One of the best lessons on the serve out there on the internet. Thank you

[@james5744]

Wow wow. 6 years after it was posted I just saw this. The last five minutes make this one of The best serve analysis videos ever. Thanks Tomas.

[@chuckgregory3417]

One of the BEST tennis videos I have ever seen, and I say this as a tennis player and engineer.

[@LavernLee-zz5ln]

Very good serve analysis in slow motion. It has always been the hardest part to learn.

[@NsteveA]

The master delivers THE WISDOM. I love these videos and only learned about hitting up recently and this addressed EVERY question I had.

[@EssentialTennis]

Excellent video as always, Tomaz. I love watching your stuff. Quick note: Jorge shot this footage with the Sony FS700 at 240fps. Its been a while since I've done the math but if I remember correctly each frame = .004 seconds. Cheers and keep up the good work my friend.

[@feeltennis]

***** Much appreciated, Ian. The video that he sent me (the original mp4) was running at 29 FPS and so when I do frame by frame in my video editing program I get 29 frames in one second - hence the numbers... Stay in touch!

[@feeltennis]

***** After some math work - yeah, you're right! The video is slowed down 8x times. So all my numbers can be divided by 8. Hence even less time than I calculated at first!!!

[@EssentialTennis]

Feel Tennis Instruction Yes, that camera is somewhat unique in how it records slow motion video. It takes 240fps and spreads them out across a 24fps video file. So the videos that come off the memory card are 10X slow without any editing. If the file Jorge gave you was 29fps then it must have been compressed. Cheers!

[@yuk2k]

***** Tomaz and Ian, I really enjoy and appreciate the content that both of you create. As someone who can't afford in-person coaching, I rely on you heavily, and the results have been excellent; my game improves incrementally with each video view. I'm very pleasantly surprised to see you interacting, and I would love to see a collaboration between the two of you. What are the chances of seeing that? Thanks for your efforts!

[@Jon_Dang]

yuk2k Agreed, they both are a very valuable resources!

[@lazidude999]

I don't usually comment on videos by this is a very good analysis and makes a lot of sense. This has really opened up my eyes more on the serve. People usually tell me these things and I myself am trying to fix my serve to swing up, but the video makes more sense of this and really makes me trust it more. Thanks!

[@MrRJakubowski]

Genuinely one of the best most helpful serve videos out there.

[@titovasss]

Hello, Tomaz, once again you exposed a very interesting point and developed it through very interesting point of view. There are very few tennis coaches that makes audience watch the whole lesson, follow through all the material, understand everything (together making one very proud because of this understanding :)) and put a smile of amazement on the face. You always point out how much natural reason and logic there is around every tennis element. In one of your future lessons maybe you could point out how to develop naturally let me call it "small jump" up trying to reach the ball as high as possible while serving. Thank you.

[@sleepinglion1192]

One of the best explanations. Makes it so clear with no nonsense.

[@marcelocoip7275]

Fantastic lesson and example. These type of visual representations are my main tools to improve my strokes. Practicing over and over again a wrong visual representation is like trying to find something in the wrong place. The backswing ilusion was a game changer for my drive. You are really great Tomaz, thanks!

[@tomtwells6082]

What an outstanding analysis of the service, I've never seen it explained better, Tomaz you're a very unique high level communicator!!

[@TheJanicetunes]

Wow this is the best explanation I ever heard on the serve. I never really understood what was happening until now. You answered all the questions I had and now maybe I can serve the correct way. I will be trying this out today!! Thank you!!!!!

[@StephanieHughesDesign]

My resident physicist tennis instructor. Always easily explains the bio mechanics of tennis as it should be. Great job again Tomaz!!!

[@cslxxwilliam]

Thank you for the detailed and technical (academia like) explanations. It corrected my coaches several points in his serve teaching

[@Arunkumar-bg5xk]

This is the most logical explanation for a serve that exists on the internet..Thanks so much

[@ronaldaramaki8445]

Thank you for your incredibly concise explanation of hitting up to get the ball into the court, and the video demonstration with Milos Raonic. One of the biggest servers today is actually not hitting "over" the ball. Like your other segments on "feeling" the technique, you helped me understand how my arm, wrist, and racquet line up at contact. Before, I used to focus on how to get the follow through look of the pros. Your approach of progressively getting the feel of the contact/swing to master the technique best suits my way of learning. Thanks.

[@TheAlexMistery]

One of the Best explanation about hit-the-ball-up concept! I was struggling to comprehend that for month until now! Thanks a lot!

[@dctrex]

Really appreciate you going into the minutiae of physics of a tennis serve. Excellent thing to have an understanding of the real mechanics.

[@donnysworld6774]

Spectacular !!! Between this video and the "Why is the serve so difficult" video, I have started to crush the ball !!! Thanks alot. Now I need to add top spin for my second serve, yet keep the serving motion you have just showed me. If you can point me to another of your videos, I'ld appreciate it. Thanks!!!!!!!!

[@romanarellano9065]

This is the best serve training video! Do what he says and your serve improves exponentially

[@cesarlovera6760]

Tomaz.I never heard the best explanation about serve. Congratulations and thank you for your excellent video.! I try your advices and my serve improved 100 x 100.

[@Master_of_Chess_Shorts]

Hello, thank you for spending time on serve analytics. It is very interesting and provides a mental picture of what we are trying to achieve. Your work is outstanding.

[@kartkan]

Brilliant explanation. I was struggling to teach this to my kid. Going to let her watch this. Thank you so much.

[@IamnotJohnFord]

Thank you. Thank you! Thank you!! This clears up why my aggressive serves have tons of spin but go into the middle or bottom of net. I'm trying to do too much with my arm and way, way too much with my hand. As soon as it stops raining here I'm heading out to give it a try. This explains why you were stating, in another serving video, to start practicing at the service line and get the feel of an unrestrained arm motion, and then trying to move backwards while keeping the same throwing action. I did notice the other day when everything felt right and my serve was dead-on with pace, power and spin. I now know what to adjust and can just leave my arm motion alone.

[@AnthonyOzimic]

Fantastic explanation. This helps to demystify the serve for me a bit and thus make me less worried about it.

[@dania_884]

One of the best video in analyse of the serve, for the curve up and swing curve down

[@davidyager2579]

Thank you! You explain good tennis better than anyone else I have ever heard, and I watch a lot of videos.

[@riccardoatwork5291]

awesome video as always, but I think you are missing a little detail, which I find important: leaning is a vital factor, but when raonic (and every good server) hits the ball, the ball goes down also because even if the racket is pointing vertical, the racket is actually going down. And what makes the racket go down is pronation. When you hit the ball the racket still has not tilted, but has started going down,

[@nelsonluisfreire8969]

Wow! Amazingly simple and yet I did not know that. This guy is a true teacher

[@yakzivz1104]

This is one of the best tennis channels!!!!

[@henrypacquette1489]

You are in the top 3 of all the coaches on youtube that knows what he is talking about when it comes to tennis.thus far you are 99% correct

[@Osnosis]

The other part of hitting up is the face angle of the racquet at contact. If the head is laid back while swinging up the ball trajectory will be up (instead of down as on a flat or slice serve), but will come back down 'heavily' into the court due to topspin.

[@geeteego]

Tomaz, thank you so much for this. Sometimes explaining something like your audience is a five year old is what is necessary. I've had four different coaches try to explain serve mechanics to me and still my serve is horribly inconsistent. This places all of the essential information quite literally in reach. You made it click for me and I can't wait to use this! Thank you!!! Ronnie

[@cesarfernandezlopez2209]

I love the sound of the church bells ❤️ as much as the sound of the racket when it hits the ball ❤️ , and regarding the serve technique , thank you , now the bells are ringing in my head too😉

[@ntnnot]

If you look at Milos Raonic's racket head path though, at one point the racket head is going upwards, but it has leveled and is just on the border of a flat motion/going down at the contact point... regardless of the angle/position of the wrist and the racket. In that sense the initial swinging up is due to the overall motion/swing path of creating the most racket head speed, but at the contact point the racket head path is already beyond swinging up, flat/slightly downwards towards the court. Right?

[@tennisdude8078]

Your videos are great for those of us who doesn't have a coach !!

[@Widmer09]

Thanks for the great tips. Thinking and feeling that I'm throwing the racket upward seems to help improve my racket drop significantly.

[@909mystery]

This kind of clarity is rare. Thank you so much.

[@cheriem9994]

This video is truly crazy. That Tomaz could break the swing down to this degree so an amateur like me can understand how to learn the advanced serve. I always wondered why my serve was arching. It's because my toss is on the baseline and not slightly inside the court so I can lean into the serve. I get it now. I get it now!!!

[@FairwayJack]

You just went up a notch in my book ...now you're at notch 11

[@sandeepchilukuri]

Awesome Thomaz 👍 you are amazing at explaining bio mechanics and logic in all your videos. Your way of explanation always fascinates my thought process and helped me with to develop technique with consistency. Thank you very much 😀

[@martinlim4967]

Thanks!

[@ajayreddy8732]

Genius coach. I will sign up for your serve course on your website. Many 🙏 thanks to you.

[@feeltennis]

Awesome, thank you!

[@alanbellamy5103]

Best explanation of the serve ever. Thank you.

[@feeltennis]

You're very welcome!

[@nommaz]

Brain-candy! Just love how each part feeds what the brain is already wanting to know and doing it so patiently and with great technical skill

[@duskov7368]

Hi Tomaz, this the most engineering and most analytical serve related analysis I have ever come across. But you said "The reason why the ball then goes down is because HE IS TILTED" and that puzzles me which tilting you were talking about. It is absolutely fine that he (Raonic) is tilted between the arm and upper body, but wonder is the tilt between the upper and lower body necessary or the upper body and lower body should be in straight line at the contact point. In my view that tilt is bigger if the ball is tossed more into the court and it s causing the low contact point. Hence it is really tricky to find the right compromise there. Or that tilt is the natural consequence of swinging up - which I entirely agree is the essence? Hence do we simply have to accept downside of the tilting since swinging up positives outplay the tilting negatives? Please, is it possible to eliminate that tilt between the upper and lower body and still swing up? My impression is that Del Potro is one of only few servers who do that.

[@feeltennis]

Thanks, Dusko. The tilt is the consequence of tossing the ball in the court as the upper body and the arm and the racket at that moment form almost a straight line. So if that line is at angle so is the racket head at angle and it's that angle that directs the ball down even though the serves is feeling an upward movement towards the ball. As for the angle between lower and upper body, it's best that there is as little as possible of that angle. Players who have a big angle between lower and upper body are not good servers. I shared that in this video and corresponding article on my site: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3jaZWuvaKx4frc

[@HakWilliams]

Trust in the force, young padawan

[@henrycannon4194]

i guess im asking the wrong place but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me.

[@emanuelkristian8432]

@Henry Cannon Instablaster ;)

[@henrycannon4194]

@Emanuel Kristian Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now. I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.

[@imonecrazykid]

Thank you for this video. My flat serves are generally inconsistent. Yesterday, we did drills where each person serves a game. When I was serving, I thought about this video, and I went to 40-0 before my opponent was even able to return a serve into play, and I never had to take a second serve. Turns out all I had to do was throw the ball into the court more instead of straight up.

[@machxlr8]

That is amazing! I never realized this! This is a great explanation!

[@rajeevprv2057]

Thnaks Tomaz, I have the same problem of controlling the ball with my arm rather than body. I have one question, what should be the angle b/w our arm and shoulder joint while we are hitting the ball and finishing with our pronation. The reason I am asking is pronation means fair amount twist in the shoulder, so the most comfortable way to do is by putting the arm fairly away from our body. But that doesn't give me direction and power. So can you please explain the right angle at which our arm has to be pronated keeping the camera behind you so that I can understand. Thanks much for your valuable video lessons.

[@TheYoudhruv]

This is absolutely insane. This helps a lot, I tried and tested. Just one thing would help all is : When you reach trophy pose and start jumping up to the ball, your shoulders should not be in same level, hitting arm shoulder should be lower, to generate upward swing and power. Hope this helps

[@zhengandre7579]

I am sure not a coach I met ever clarify the physics of the swing path better, particularly what happened from upward to downward. need to hit the ball during downward… I tried today and it did generate the power and accuracy.😊

[@nabirum]

So nice. Hit up and out to get the ball to go down and in. The video really explains the up becomes down. I don’t see it so much why hitting out makes the ball go in. Maybe another video on pronation power exists....

[@cimambue]

Looks like you are back in Slovenia. That place in Singapore looked slick, but I like this place. I always look forward to your videos.

[@juicetest]

ive been stuck with the wrong idea for years. Thanks thomas.

[@canchero724]

Superb video Tomas! This mystery does make sense now. Can you do one for the top second serve too please?

[@feeltennis]

***** The swing action is basically the same except you're hitting the ball slightly more to the left of your original contact point. You could barely spot the difference in the video - again, when it comes to swinging up it's the same action.

[@gogogo96]

awesome explanation. that super slomo really got me. thank u very much Tomas!

[@tigerkane3960]

How awesome the contact point moment(11:18) is... ! Daebak!! Then Is the toss position a little bit behind my body? (When I practice the toss not tilting my body,,,)

[@user-ky4nc8nt9f]

Thanks for sharing your lessons. Wondering how to do second serve With power and consistency. Some coach’s talk about slice /spin serve. What’s it? How to do it. Can you please share your opinions? Thanks

[@GrungePopRecords]

Absolutely divine insights and instructions 🏆

[@x0xFaruqx0x]

YOU ARE AMAZING, basically perfect, intricate, cohesive yet masterfully broken down and explained. Thank you so very much, God bless, Peace out ! :D

[@peca_gabriel]

please write the name of the guy which videos in slow motion I could not understand the name

[@Guitar4life99]

8-10 weeks into tennis, mind blown. haha off to the court now to work on it

[@danndane3642]

As soon as I think swing up on the ball before my serve, those serves are clearing the net, good advice coach.

[@VigneshDhakshinamoorthy]

What an incredible video I thought, as I watched this. Really mind blowing analysis. I have lots of trouble tossing the ball such that I end up farther behind the court. How can I prepare to serve such that I land inside the court, that seems to be the key to nailing a great first serve

[@ldgnotebook]

I once saw a VHS tape of the Williams practice “serving” with the picture of a heap of rackets or a dune of rackets thrown up by Venus in their home base in Florida. I practice throwing racket up when serving for years and your lesson confirms my theory but better in detail explanation. Thank you for your insight

[@MohsinKhan-ro5re]

Thanks for another great video. I too am a recreational player and for years I've never known that this dynamic exists. My serve is the weakest point of my game. Mainly, I can't have a proper backswing on the serve. Meaning I toss the ball up and my elbow is bent and the racket goes up from in front of me, not behind me as its supposed to. I've been doing this for years so I can't seem to correct my service motion. Can you please guide me a bit how to do that and also apply your advice in this video?

[@idleking31]

Your awesome video improved my serve tremendously. Thanks

[@w6030]

wow, best video, so far, that explains the phrase "hitting up".

[@neygercey7899]

Mechanic applied to tennis! Well done, professor!

[@theobeulakker3492]

good explanation of the difficulties serving well. thanks again.

[@MathCuriousity]

Finally I understand why it feels like I'm swinging up, yet the ball is always going into the net. I get that feeling of swinging up, so then I try to compensate by snapping my wrist down! One question: In this serve you are showing which is not a kick serve, can you still get topspin on it, by brushing the low to high with the wrist (as he pronates)? (It Doesn't look like Milos uses any wrist upward motion at contact during his pronation. It looks like it all the upward wrist motion happens before contact as if he is just trying to reach higher with wrist).

[@feeltennis]

If you just hit the ball at a lower contact point and more behind you, then topspin will happen.

[@dougbach]

I think what makes the ball to come down is the swing path up plus outward pronation of the arm/hand/racquet that creates the top spin. Comparing with Milos's serving motion may not be typical because the guy is 6'5 so you don't see much of his outward rotation but closing racquet face (leaning into the court). I certainly see swinging upward to build up racquet speed.

[@HUNGNGUYEN-rz4nx]

I'm in Vietnam. This leson very good for me. Thanks !

[@fadnanmy]

You explained it so well. Thank you.

[@TeamTennisfr]

I think it remains a good idea to look for the feeling of making the ball go down with pronation, whatever really happens.

[@dejo9489]

a great video once again, tomaz, giving food for thought and experiment. the pivotal part of the text seems to be: '...Using the forearm and elbow as the pivot point rather than using the whole arm and the shoulder as the pivot point.' is there any way of practicing the feel of the forearm and elbow rather than the shoulder at this point?

[@feeltennis]

Yode Smash Yes, check these drills: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2rGeoKYmLasg6c

[@masterlup]

can you make a video for eg with that slow motion video on what phase of the swing what muscle activates. I heard that before the swing you are very loose and on contact your body is very hard so that the counterforce of the ball wont creep back into a joint.

[@joshuaman01]

Due to that Milos Raonic slow mo video, I am pleased that most players are tossing the ball almost inside the court but not on the right side of the baseline which some tutorials are showing, however all of the pro players are doing that "Elbow up" thing to have a power on that upward swing motion.

[@colinbyer3018]

This is so interesting, I saw a video by intuitive tennis that said you hit down on a serve although I think you’re right. Can you watch it? I’m curious what you think about it

[@BangPotential]

amazing video, as with most yours this is again digital gold!

[@jeanhuz3689]

Thanks for this video. is it the same feeling with the smash ? raquet vertical and throwing upward ?

[@looonger]

This video is exceptional! Thank you so very much for the explanation!

[@longnguyenxv]

excellent Tomaz!!! Hope you make some about tennis elbow!

[@berndklumpp7790]

Thomas, you are king...

[@keithsoifer3079]

Coach, long time viewer, first time commenter from SoFl, This is a difficult, counter intuitive concept. The video is too much to take in in one bite, but it is very well-done. I look forward to using it with my students, AND, myself as well. Curious, how is this concept deployed by tall players. Curious as to what kind of adjustments are made. By virtue of a tall player's height, isn't /she/he hitting in a more downward swing path? Although for a tall player, the length of distance from baseline to beyond net still remains constant. Thanks again for your excellent insight!!

[@ZETEANU]

hey Thomas! I love your videos! You are such a great coach! i wish one day we can work together. Can you please make a video on how to uncoil your body into the ball on the serve. I've been watching Federer doing this, and it seems he generates such a great speed by doing that. I would love you to share your thoughts on this! Big love from Romania

[@davidmahery1429]

OMG that was just eye opening 😲. Thank you so much

[@112rorz]

Great video, super detailed! I would just like to add that mentioning the correct toss positioning is critical I feel in this video explanation and in the serve swing/contact because that will also affect the ball downward movement. A toss closer to the baseline/body with this same swing movement would probably send the ball flying outside the court as contact is made before this point and a deeper toss would probably end up in the net despite a correct swing movement.

[@feeltennis]

***** Yes, good point. We must try to adjust our toss to our most natural and comfortable service motion, rather than adjusting our serve to the toss. Every inch difference from ideal toss placement makes the ball go differently.

[@LubaLuba1]

Very interesting video but because Milos is in a rotation motion there is a sling shot reaction from the strings which literally forces the ball in a downward trajectory by sling shot effect and also causing topspin.

[@909mystery]

Please share some clips on serve grip for good pronation.

[@AmitabhDasGupta870]

Brilliant explanation

[@Widmer09]

Wow! I didn't realize how much the pro's toss the ball into the court til I saw this Raonic's slow mo serve clip.

[@henrypacquette1489]

You have been a big help to my game

[@mexicotravelclub]

is necessary see the ball in the moment of the contact?

[@seungsukim8561]

This is awesome!! Unbelievable lesson!